GATES Subaru Timing Kits: BUYER BEWARE!
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- A routine timing belt replacement on this 2010 Subaru Legacy turns into an investigation of why this Gates timing component kit TCK304 includes substandard parts...
The answers that I get are not encouraging...so buyer beware!
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I installed a Gates kit on my STi. I was only aware of their reputation for quality and didn't look deeper at things. The tensioner failed at 800km and destroyed a rebuilt engine. Broke the piston in the number 4 cylinder. Gates stopped replying after I sent them photos of the tensioner. Unfortunately for me I had purchased the kit over a year earlier. I am now getting ready to install another engine and this one has a factory Subaru tensioner on it.
Unless the Chinese have someone looking over their shoulder the whole time they will cut corners and make crap.
That is so sad and unfortunate. Definitely worth it to get Japanese made NSK/NTN bearings in any timing components!
1Howdy1 find my comment. You are dead nuts spot on jimmy on the trigger buddy. Very refreshing comment
No offence but I don't feel bad for you.
That's what I hear from people who have personally worked with Chinese manufacturing. They *can* make quality stuff, but like you said, you have to be constantly looking over their shoulder, almost to the point that you may as well just do the job yourself in order to get good stuff out of them. If you specify m12x1.25 threads, they'll create those threads, but they'll use the dullest, crappiest tap they have in the shop and a proper bolt won't thread in smoothly. Then you tell them that their threads suck, and they will reply with something along the lines of, "oh, you want CLEAN m12x1.25 threads? That'll cost you extra.
@@1Howdy1 when was the last time you bought a Chinese car? That should say it all.
As an older guy who is NOT a mechanic I'm impressed with you, as a young man, having the awareness AND more importantly the integrity to refuse to install the parts in question. If it was an alternator belt or a spark plug maybe it wouldn't be as big a deal if there was a failure sometime down the road but with these timing belt related parts the potential damage that could be done could be catastrophic in terms of what that damage might cost to fix AND the length of time the vehicle could be disabled while going through repairs.
I'm old school and grew up in a different time. If this exact scenario took place 50 years ago I'm almost certain that the Gates Rep would have stood on his head in a corner to make things right with you, the customer, in order not to lose you as a customer. The fact that he was so indifferent when you said you would never buy Gates stuff again is the kind of thing I can just never get used to because I've faced this type of thing countless times with different kinds of products and services I've had problems with in my later years.
This VERY scenario is a good illustration and symptom of the problems this country faces and the thing is that as older people fade into the background and younger people raised in a different age take over "the system" they just fail to see the warning signs of a system that is starting to fail.
Another sign is that most young people who read my post here will just dismiss it out of hand as the nonsense ramblings of an older person who is out of touch. They have no interest in anyone's time earned wisdom. They haven't been raised to see the value in it and as time passes they will pay a higher price because of this blindness then I ever will.
It's just like the story of the boiled frog! (look it up.)
Great video!
Thank You!
Wonderful comment, I agree with you 100% that so much knowledge and human dignity is being lost!! The system will have to correct itself eventually, and many will suffer as a result!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Thank you sir! Keep up the good or rather, great work.
Wise
Very wise comment, proof is in the COVID crisis
It is an iteresting point but the reality is that the parts are no longer made in japan(where we want them to be made) because we trust japan more than china. (Gates cant get the parts from japan at a good price. But they cam make them probably almost as good or better acording to gates in china. So now you can pay 300 for the Aisin kit with genuine japanese parts or 200 for the gates kit with a few chinese swap outs that are suposed to be trust worthy.
File a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, include a link to this video and we'll see what gates has to say then.
Rebuilt Subaru engines
Now they call it "oem equivilent" instead of oem
No one cares
I have done a couple Subaru's with the Aisin Kits. With these kits the tensioners use the same bearings as OEM, the belt is a Mitsuboshi which is also OEM. the water pumps are Aisin brand and are nicer made than OEM, afterall Aisin is a OEM for toyota. Seriously worth checking out if your doing these...
100% the Aisin stuff is nicer.
I had a similar problem with a Cloyes timing chain kit several years back, which included a non-OEM tensioner assembly with a flawed design, which resulted in chain slap at idle. Unlike that Gates rep, the Cloyes tech took the time to troubleshoot with me to find the problem, then overnighted me an entire new kit at no cost, which he personally hand-picked and inspected prior to shipping. Needless to say, I buy a lot of Cloyes products whenever I can!
Had great experience with Cloyes as well.
Thanks for taking the time to make this video. I have used Gates products and Aisen on my Subs....but no more Gates. That is false advertising, and underhanded, and deceptive like you stated in the video. I work on cars all the time and refuse to use Chinese products/parts even though some are decent. Gates get the picture....you lost a customer.
I think they lost more than one customer...
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics damn straight!
i always thought gates was equal to oem from their reputation. things change. thanks ivan
A timing belt job is usually something you have time to plan ahead for. Order Subaru components from one of the dealers that have online store fronts. You will pay a little more, but for a job you may only do once or twice on the life of the car, its worth the extra.
Impressed ROC actually called Gates but the attitude from both companies rankled me especially as the advertising on the box is clearly misleading. No apology from either company for wasting your time and money. You're more patient than me and that is an intended compliment
Great posting! You were too kind to the Gates & Rockauto customer service people. Thanks for pulling the curtain back on both Gates & Rockauto. I purchase from my my indie parts shop. You do pay more sometimes but they will try and match prices when they can. Personalized service of a human being wins every time when compared to the heartless phone customer service guy.
Not sure Rock coulda done anymore than they did dude.. Rock didn't make it, but yeah F Gates!
Putting a different country of origin is on the box downright deceptive. Thank you for the heads up I will never buy their products again. The second guy you spoke to on the phone also had an attitude issue but you are a gentleman, my New York temper would not have been as cordial.Thank you for the great info.I wish I had a mechanic as good as you close by.
Thank you man, your loss saved a lot of us.
Since my Legacy has a "B" on the 4th digit of the VIN, to the Gates TCK307 was the correct kit.
I just put one on tonight. In the Gates TCK-307:
Belt - USA
Upper Idler - Japan
Lower Idler - Japan
Toothed Idler - Japan
Tensioner - Canada
That's too bad. I've always liked gates hoses and belts but I'll be keeping an eye out from now on. Thanks for bringing that to our attention. It was nice to meet you at the meet up Ivan.
Wow, the good old days when rock auto had customer service!
Holy shit I'm so happy I came across this before buying A1 autos timing belt kit.
Thanks for saving my subarus life.
Way to bust some chops. Made in China is not in any stretch OEM quality. Watch a Chinese car crash test and tell me that something Chinese made that looks okay is going to perform okay.
Hey Brian! Yeah I wasn't buying that load of crap from the Gates rep either lol...they sold out plain and simple. For shame, Gates!
Whose chops were busted? Accepting that you paid for something that you didn't receive, by saying that you won't buy something else is a non-threat.
Volvo, Buick, Cadillac and Ford already have or will have new models built in China, on American roads. They are already here boys.
49s13
🙆MG VOLVO TOO, NOOOOOOOOOO
Only use OEM parts on a Subaru. That Red-colored lower idler pulley will be the first to go bad, its got a much smaller bearing in it than the upper idler pulley. so I always swap out the lower idler pulley with a 2nd new upper idler pulley.
In the UK this is called false advertising! BAD gates!!!
same here too
Good Job Ivan
I would advise your Consumer advocate agency regarding the false labeling of the product and see where that leads. It will not solve your issue but might help someone else from having the same issue happening to them. Gates has to be held accountable for there products. I recentlybwas inquiring about a Replacement Gates CVT belt The Gates rep basically told me to buy from an alternate manufacturer.
Did you really expect those phone calls to go any different?? "Sure we'll refund your money in a week or two." But that doesn't help you when you have a customers car torn apart with no reputable local parts source to obtain an Aisin kit quickly. You were too nice to these half ass employees that didn't offer any kind of real resolution.
Dude, you just validated my decision to pay a shop extra money for a genuine Subaru Timing belt kit and installation for my wife's 2010 Forester. I was looking at buying a Gates timing belt kit from Rock Auto but decided to go with the shop with the genuine Subaru kit where I got a 36 K mile/ 3 year warranty. Thanks Bro.
My Rav4 is off to have a timing belt kit installed with a specific instruction to my mechanic to only use Aisin, and specifically check for no 'Made in China' parts. I'm glad you posted this video!
Gates = disappointment.
I purchased the Aisin TKF-006 for $207.30 including taxes and shipping on Ebay for my 2009 Subaru Forester. It has all the original OEM Japanese made timing belt, bearings, tensioner and water pump.
!! Yes, sir . Gates had the wrong pulley in my 07 FXT Kit. They swore up and down it was ok to use. When they sent me a replacement it looked different then the one in the box.
yeah if in doubt, DO NOT use it!
I've had a less than great experience with gates belts. On my car, the original v-belt was smooth but excessively worn. For whatever reason, Gates felt it would be fine to sell a toothed v-belt for a vehicle with smooth pulleys, and the result was a loud whirring noise, especially under acceleration. After a week, the teeth started to wear, leaving belt material on the front of the engine. I returned it and bought an OEM belt and the noise is gone, all is well. I'm sure the gates belt would have been okay, but the noise was driving me nuts.
Do you drive a Mazda Miata? Older Mazdas used separate V-belts for all the accessories. My '89 MPV likes to snap the alt/fan belt every 30k miles or so...always carry spare NAPA belts. Just pop a new one on and keep on truckin'!
+motoYam82 Can't say if had recurring belt issues. One v-belt drives the water pump and alternator while a ribbed belt drives the AC and power steering. It's been over 20k since I replaced both belts and they still look great.
few days ago I put in INAS Subaru timing belt kit (Belt was made in Slovenia and Pulleys in Japan)... so much whine and whistle that i thought i have installed a turbo charger by mistake. replaced it with OEM and all problems went away. not buying any aftermarket stuff ever again.
One thing to keep in mind about Amazon is that when you have something like a water pump fail, you can't warranty it through Amazon. I just ran into this on an '05 Grand Prix, 3.8L. They told me to go back to Gates directly and they require an online retailer warranty form you have to fill out and send in for a refund. Waaaaaaaaay too much trouble compared to Amazon returns. I couldn't return it since it was past their return time window. I just bought another one, but from ACDelco through RockAuto. it was only about $25, so not worth my time to deal with Gates. The Gates pump was Chinese too I believe. Bottom line: buy from somewhere that you can return it under warranty if you think you might ever have to, especially if it's expensive.
So, it would appear that you pay for top-of-the-line parts and receive whatever they decide to put in the box!
EXCELLENT CATCH!
I lost all respect for gates when I installed their kit on my WRX. Within 7000km the water pump failed. The actual pulley separated from the shaft and machined its way through the timing cover. The timing belt almost fell off! When I spoke to gates about this trying to cover my repair/ towing costs. They pretty said tough luck. Because I did the work myself. They only exchanged the kit for a new one.... I took that brand new kit and threw it in the garbage. Bought all OEM stuff.
That sucks! I have only seen that the car makers logo or marks are removed from the component and sold as aftermarket by the OE manufacturer.
what alot of people are missing is that yes these parts could be made to equal quality or even better but the concern is that who really knows? you dont know for sure because of the quality control.
I understand the issue - I've dealt with similar in other retail/construction industry. If it were my car, I'd warranty the kit and buy OEM. It's unfortunate you had to learn this on the customer's back, so to speak. To retain customer trust, I would consider procuring OEM parts and eat the cost on your end. Who's to say the components that "feel good" now will last the interval of the timing belt. Tough position.
all that said, and there's still the possibility that the OEM parts are Chinese, but at least they usually back the parts with warranty. I would be steamed too that the box is labeled Japan since by opening it, they say "unreturnable"
I don't know where you got your kit from mate??
But, I bought a Gates kit and it arrived yesterday.
No Chinese markings on anything. No rough casting on anything. I paid £148 from an online well known car parts supplier, instead of £400+vat from a local Auto factors. I've a bargain. Nothing wrong with it. I checked on Gates website to "check it's original, not counterfeit" and it's all good.
Last time I bought a timing belt kit I bought SKF, it's basically OEM replacement, didn't bother to check where the kit was made, but I trust SKF to have decent QA.
I worked for an international company and had to ship parts to a customer who needed country of origin on the paperwork. I was shipping a Bosch part and just wrote down Germany, but then thought I would better check. Turns out part was made in China...... The best argument you had was that on the outside of the box, the parts were labeled wrong, which you could not tell until you opened the box. My opinion, the Rock Auto rep should have offered maybe a $20 coupon for your next order if they could not take back individual parts.
I bought an 02 wrx with a rebuilt motor and after driving it for a little under a year the timing belt broke and the car broke down getting on the highway. I’m going to attempt to replace the belt on its own just to see if the motor is not destroyed internally.
DISCLAIMER FOR EVERYONE
Timing belt kit part# TCKWP304AN
You will actually receive Japanese OE product. I paid $250 canadian plus taxes from Rock auto.
US COO laws (country of origin) need to be updated to require that mail order vendors make it clear where the product is made. I tried to obtain this information from RockAuto on some parts and I got the regular old mumbo jumbo about the supplier sourcing the parts from all over so it was not possible to supply that information. This information is crucial for the consumer to make informed decisions on the parts they want to buy. The US government made it the law that packaging reflect the country of origin, online retailers not passing this information on is in effect bypassing this requirement.
I realize this is not the exact problem that you have, but it highlights a problem that needs to be corrected to help the consumer make more informed decisions and may even curtail some of the shenanigans from those on the outsourcing bandwagon.
"Made in Japan means it was packaged in Japan",................hmmmmm,................NOT!
HE IS full of SHIT!!
rvz77 so they make the parts in China, send them to japan to get packaged as a kit, so they can say the “kit” ( not the components of the kit) was made in Japan.??
@@paulsz6194 HORSESHIT!! I
Bought the AISIN KIT.
i think you misunderstood my statement. I was s saying, just because all the ( chinese made) parts are put in a box in Japan and are ma few a lot there & shipped to the U.S does not constitute "made in Japan" . I don't know why you feel the need to "Horseshit" on me..
@@paulsz6194 sorry for not being clearer. I was agreeing with you.
What you described sounds like a horseshit maneuver by Gates to find a cheaper alternative for sake of profit.
I went with the Aisin kit. Stamped made in Japan parts.
Hey, just a heads up. I just received a Gates timing belt kit, Model TCK-307, to replace the components on my 2003 Legacy wagon 2.5 auto trans. I have read the reviews on-line and was prepared to have a mix of components manufactured in various countries, including China. To my surprise all the idler pulleys are made in Japan as well as the tensioner. Either Koyo or NSK bearings. The belt is made in the USA. The info on the box states that the components could be from a variety of countries and the kit contains the copy of the TSB and instructions on how to bleed the tensioner. I am in Canada and ordered the kit through PartsAvatar.ca. Needless to say I am pleased.
Interesting! They must be sending all the good kits to Canada haha
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Not sure, or it could be old stock except for the box. I'm definitely not complaining. Oh, thanks for the video.
Thank you for this video was just installing gates kit on my Subaru and I just happened to come across your video was having some issue's with the water pump and low and behold 2 china made pulleys tensioner was made in Canada going to use hope it doesn't fail and water pump has no location mystery part glad I checked and more so saw your video thank you sir
Makes no sense, in my opinion, to not replace all the pulleys. Sure, there might be zero amount of play but with 100,000 miles on the bearings inside the pulleys, they will not live to the next timing belt change.
I enjoy your videos....keep up the great work!
Just put the parts in and hope they will make it to the next 100K miles. You cannot expect OEM quality when you buy aftermarket parts regardless of the manufacture, they have to take a shortcut somewhere to cut the cost.
my take on this is that you should replace all the parts in the kit on to the car, if a component of the kit fails you have a claim with gates, if you mix the old and new and a old100k mile part fails. This will be your fault. and you will end up repairing the car out of your wallet .
CHINA parts do not = Cheese.
Gates will have done there best to include quality parts as they have to pay up in the event of a claim,
A new part must be better than a part that has 100k on it.
Put the whole kit on, thats what the customer is paying for.
unsure how familiar you are with auto repair. many cheaper parts fail, that means ivan is working for free and the customer is out of their vehicle. this is not to be taken lightly with internal engine components. sure it is just maintenance... however they can cause some really nasty broken parts to fly around and possibly damage pistons, rods, crankshaft and that adds up very rapidly. personally i would not try to put a big corporation on the hook, i would however let the customer make the choice. an informed consumer is a wise and thoughtful consumer.
chris, i am a Uk IMI qualified Master Tech with 20 years in the job
+andrew davis I like your credentials but obviously you're a fool. I'm sure Gates will step right up and pay for an engine and damages, right!
Sven ... What do you do for a living ???
Retired automotive tooling engineer with a long history with Chinese manufacturing. The only way I would trust Chinese parts is that I would be there, in China, and inspect every part. When you are a small shop owner the only warranty given is yours, no one else's. No parts supplier and I mean none will step up and do the right thing with a small shop owner. Replace a defective part, sure. Replace an engine, no freeking way! "you have a claim with gates" good luck with that.
After seeing Monkey Wrenching's video about this problem, it appears the cheaper TCK304 has no guarantee of all Japanese parts. however, the slightly more expensive (+$6) TCK304N kit DOES have all Japanese parts. The discrepancy with the tensioner is due to Subaru owning the patent on the casting design and requesting them to design their own for their retail parts..
Truth is a lot of OEM parts for manufacturers are made in China now, look at GM and Delphi. Manufacturing factories exist in China that can produce parts of ANY quality, it's up to the companies(whether it be gates, delphi, etc etc...) that hire them to decide how 'quality' they want their product to be. Of course they always chose a lesser quality so their product is more competitive and their profit margins are larger.
Wow that sucks ! Nice find man I appreciate your time!
Thanks for letting us listen in to that call Ivan.
I put a Gates kit on my car last year and the timing belt started jumping teeth. I took the car to the dealer and they reset the timing belt and all looked good to them. Of course the belt jumped teeth again. I'm lucky the engine (2.5 XT) was not ruined. I took the tensioner back off and the force to compress it seemed less than the old one. So I bought a Subaru tensioner and the car has been fine since. Of course I couldn't return just part of the kit so I had to take off all the parts. Nothing like doing a job four times. No more Gates products for me unless they come out with a change in policy.
Thank you for the video, that's very sad. Gates had a good reputation, but now..
I also bought a Gates set and planned to replace my timing belt and rollers but when opening the box I also saw CHINA in one of the rollers, and when i took a closely look at the belt itself .. it was of poor quality with weird stripes in it (as if someone deliberately pinched the belt in different places) and the tensioner was almost like rusty or old or something, didnt looked new .. I did not trust it and sent everything back. Bought one of Contitech (German quality) and it was a world of difference in quality and the kit costs the same!
i read somewhere recently that gates now owned by some chinese company?
i did some research on which pullys are made by who the left and right lower are made by NSK the right upper is made by NTN and the tensioner is made by KOYO i just cant find where the belt was made
“Chyna Virus.” -YouKnowWho
Yeah! Great catch Ivan. No more Gates kits for me.
I understand your situation, but remember, because you kept the kit and installed the parts, RockAuto and Gates felt no pain. They pawned off crap on you, got their money, and there was no incentive for them to change. Additionally, you'll spend even more money for the better quality parts that were not in the kit. Next time, inform Gates that you are making your story known on your youtube channel, and let RockAuto know you will be returning the parts. Take photos of the box and the Chinese parts, send that to your credit card company when you dispute the charge. If you are paying Gates prices for higher quality parts, do not accept when they substitute to make more profit. And the reason they could not get the Japanese parts is because the supplier did not want to lower their price. Do not get angry with the saps that handle the phone calls, they are not making the decisions, they just have to deal with the irate customers. They know very well what is going on with the quality, because they field calls like yours many times a day.
They a actually recalled these tensioners. I use the kits with Mitsuboshi belt and gmb tensioner and idlers, and aisin water pumps
It's become too difficult to find out who makes what anymore. In my opinion, I purchase parts from companies that stand behind their product no matter where it's made.
Frag that! I bought a new gates kit over a year ago but haven't opened it yet. One guess where I'm off to...
Had Scoobys 20 years always bought genuine or dayco kits , I've never thought much of gates, if your doing a job like that use the best you can get,if something goes wrong, you'll wish you had used main dealer parts..simple.
Gates is gonna' luv' you, Ivan. You ruined their Friday morning, July 28, 2016.
Thanks for sharing.
I made + - 60 Timingbelt changes per year on various Cars. And its the same Chinese shiiii t in the Gates Boxes/Kits here in middle Europe. Since last week i use only OEM and Aisin if avaiable. I dont wanna have issues with cheap, not 100% matching parts.
Yes that is the only way left...expensive OEM!
Thank you so much. This video helped me out so much and you were so detailed and explained everything
That stinks! Rock auto guy said he'd refund for the kit but I'm willing to bet he isn't going to refund piece part. Glad that didn't happen to me when I got a Gates kit for the Subaru I did recently. Hopefully the same thing doesn't happen with AISIN.
This is the 3rd warning I’ve gotten about gates products. You can’t play games with a timing belt. A Subaru timing belt. I have a gt with dohc.
I had a water pump go out on my 2.4 GM, it runs off the timing chain. The car had 140,000 miles on it so I had my mechanic replace the chain and sprockets and the tensioner. The car ran another 40,000 miles and used no oil ran great, I stopped one day and didn't notice any noise but when I went to start it the engine locked up. I had my mechanic tear the engine down and the tensioner was run back all the way. It had a Delco Remy name stamped on one side of the tensioner and on the other it had "made in China" stamp. My mechanic had purchased it at Napa, it had been in the car two years and I couldn't really expect a car with that many miles and that long out to be warrantied but the first tensioner was doing great and lasted 140,000 and the second went 40,000. I hate anything I have put on my automobile to have made in China on it but sometimes it is all you can get. I know very well there is no Delco Remy plant in China, they just bought the name and put it on at whatever factory makes it.
yup sad truth...
I've had good luck with Rockauto in the past though I do not do auto repair for a living. It seems to me that this is a Gates problem. More than likely Gates is still using old stickers on their cartons. Lack of detail on their part and it sucks.
I have this exact car, but mine is a 2012. Just did the timing belt kit like this, but Dayco brand. Now have a slow coolant leak and a strange "whistling" from the front end. Hoping the Bar's fixes the leak. Did the job about 2500 miles ago.
I go with Contitech kits now. Quality seems like the quality that Gates used to be.
need to do a timing belt on an EJ, another youtuber said gates if fine but after hearing their big GFY from gates, im gonna pass on their trash
edit: wow, avoid rock auto too geez, real pieces of work
Ivan this is discouraging from Gates. i've used so many of their timing belt kits on my own and friends subarus, but use the oem subaru waterpump. Two years ago i received a mismarked timing belt from gates and had to count the teeth and make my own timing marks based on the old timing belt. this past winter on a tck307 kit i discovered a tensioner made in Canada... and just in early july on two different subarus had a tck304 and tck307 kit that had the same made in China toothed idler and double bearing idler as your kit. on both cars i had no choice but to install the China parts; i'm going to inspect them every 30,000 miles.. i sincerely hope they are "equal or better quality".... oh man. i've had terrible luck with Dayco timing belt tensioners on subarus a few years ago; i am concerned about options to buy quality timing components now..
I'm all for the principle of them labeling the parts correctly, but have you had a lot of problems with Chinese parts wearing out and breaking prematurely?
Just now seeing this and I've seen a newer video that shows Gates now offers different kits one with Japanese oe parts and the same kit you have here with mixed parts. Obviously your phone calls worked in correcting this issue.
Had the same thing happen to me for a Suzuki timing belt I did recently. Gates kit came with all China bearings. OEM was all German. Left the water pump right in the box too. I wasn't going to replace a genuine opel water pump at 50k with a Chinese one.. Thankfully the German bearings sounded better than the Chinese ones and I reused it all.
yeah good call!
Wow, that sucks! Both Gates and Rockauto didn't really care. I have ordered a lot from RockAuto and have got 1 bad part... ACDelco steering gearbox. Not RockAuto's fault, but again, their customer service was useless. I personally will continue to order from them but only items that are not expensive to ship back. Don't forget that Amazon has a lot of parts as well, with fast/free shipping (if you have Amazon Prime), and their customer service is fantastic. They would have accepted the return right away, have given you a pre-paid shipping label to send the Gates junk back, and given you a refund, with no hassle or time wasted.
I've been a believer that you can manufacture anything anywhere provided that the quality system is maintained. However, Chinese manufacturers are known to make component and/or material substitutions without notifying the design headquarters. That's an ethical problem in my book. I wouldn't use their junk either.
Reading from a few people that claim to be in the business on Reddit, it basically boils down to needing to keep someone there watching them. Without a representative from your company keeping an eye on them, they'll start out meeting your quality standards to win the contract then degrade the quality of the product over time. With a representative breathing down their necks they don't try to pull the same crap and will more often than not keep putting out a quality product. Problem is, not only can you generally not tell which side of the coin a product is on from just looking at it, but hiring somebody from your home country to move there and watch over the factories all day cuts into the whole point of the cheaper labor.
Wow. Thanks for this video. I'm with you. I only use OEM parts on our Subarus. I have seen Subaru timing belts that say Made in Thailand. I thought Subaru used Gates timing belts as their OEM belt..?? A. I will never buy from Rock Auto, B. I will never buy another Gates product. ( I have used their hoses and radiator caps). I just hope Subaru doesn't start using China made parts ., but who knows. It's all about the buck. Companies mess up, have to increase profits..we end up paying. Oh well. Take care of your cars!
Things to take away from this experience:
1. False advertising, is a thing.
2. Made and assembled, are two different things.
3. Suggestion to just take the refund and go local. Then at least a real warranty and better negations if it takes the motor out. Especially since you documented everything.
Contitech and Aisin seem to still be providing components made in Japan (so far).
Just got a TCK304 'N' kit. Belt was 'Made in USA'. Everything else was 'Made In Japan'.
Thanks for the comment! Did the hydraulic tensioner have "NTN JAPAN" stamped on it, or was it a generic casting like the one in the kit I showed in the video?
Definitely stay away from that Gates kit if you can. I had purchased an AISIN kit for a timing belt service on an Impreza and when I was ready to install the new pulleys, idlers, & tensioner, I discovered that the the company I ordered from sent me the wrong kit. Since I couldn't wait to get another kit shipped, I had no choice but to purchase a Gates kit locally. The tensioner in the Gates kit started failing about year later. I got lucky and caught it before ruining an engine. Buyer beware for sure on the Gates kit.
I just bought a AISIN kit for a Volvo V70. Inside the box...GATES timing belt! The irony!
Just curious, have Gates ever reach out to you after this video has racked 177k views? I could imagine not too many viewers of this video would order one of those kits anymore after seeing this.
New Zealand this is illegal to label the origin incorrectly.
The box clearly says where each part is made...
"No problem?" WTF, Ivan.
I would have insisted that _Gates_ contact the retailler and clear the way for a return, OR Fedex out the correct parts for next day delivery.
Why would any customer who bought something that wasn't as labelled let the manufacturer AND the distributor off the hook as easily as this?
This isn't just a matter of warranty. Not counting that this was sold interstate, at least 2 Federal laws are being ignored by Gates selling parts with the countries of origin not as labelled on the sealed packaging. There are severe penalties for false labelling and false advertising.
The FTC and the US Border and Customs Protection agency are required to enforce the following which applies to the kits of parts packaged by or for Gates:
"If marked articles are to be repacked in the United States after release from CBP
custody, importers must certify on entry that they will not obscure the marking on
properly marked articles if the article is repacked, or that they will mark the repacked
container. If an importer does not repack, but resells to a repacker, the importer must
notify the repacker about marking requirements. Failure to comply with these
certification requirements may subject importers to penalties and/or additional duties. "
These being Chinese parts for a Subaru impoorted from H=Japan Japan, they are NOT exempted as "Parts, for machines imported from same country as parts, "
"36. Special Marking Requirements
The country-of-origin marking requirements are separate and apart from any
special marking or labeling required on specific products by other agencies. It is
recommended that the specific agency be contacted for any special marking or labeling
requirements."(www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Importing%20into%20the%20U.S.pdf)
The Fair Packaging and Labeling Act (FPLA) also applies to this product, and it is covered under the commerce rules that the ICC and DOT are charged to with enforcing.
I mean if you won't even buy dealer parts for a timing kit, and you'll be satisfied with Rock Auto, why would you complain about an aftermarket part's coo? Cost was apparently your number one concern, and when you open the box it's suddenly quality that's paramount???
Same shit with INA. Bought INA timing belt kit for Volvo D5252T engine - belts were made in UK and Poland, pulleys made in Romania and China. Pulleys were made by Litens ( Canadian manufacturer ) but still in Romania and China. Shame, shame.
Pump was Hepu and that was made in Germany.
Some manufacturers do have their product made in China, but to their own specifications, not China's or whatever sweat shop is building them.. I have a Crown audio amplifier made in China, it has served me well for a decade-but it was made to Crown specifications and built like a tank. Maybe this is also the case with Gates? Even so, the issue with them is the mis-labelling on the box, and if it wasn't a customer car but mine instead, I'd send the whole box of parts back.
You were on the ball young man, how many people check? well done
at the end of the day,they don't care.they make parts as cheap as possible,sell to people who may or may not have an issue. and if it comes back it's cheap enough that they don't care they'll just warranty it out.doesnt matter to the aftermarket companies.people will still buy their cheap china junk.my 2003 focus had an issue with gates tensioners dieing all of the time.i got sick of it so I spent the 110 bucks on a ford one and not a single isssue since.
That sucks. The last Gates kit I installed was as advertised.
Thank you for your video just about to buy a gates kit , you got another subscriber
That is so miss leading. the box says the parts are made in Japan. Thanks for the warning.
I order a NSK sprocket pulley which is made in Japan which exploded on my engine with ball bearings laying all over
I do a lot of timing belts. I will be checking things more closely.
I have found kits from Aisin on Arizona that contains all parts from Japan.
Only buy the ASIN kits! It’s the closest thing you’ll get to OEM. Yeah they cost a little More money, but it’s still way cheaper then buying the components piece by piece from Subaru since Subaru doesn’t sell a “kit”.
Really unfortunate situation. I dunno it's just me, but I get a bit warey of companies that put a lot of money into advertising? Like, a lot!
I just think that if they're spending so much money on advertising (and I know advertising is important) and sounding cool and professional and not relying so much on repeat business and just having a good name, it makes me wonder about the company. Because advertising isn't cheap and if your good name isn't getting you the business you need then what's going on? And I don't know about other countries but in Australia "gates" advertisements on TV just seem to have been there for the last decade or so almost daily... Gates seems to advertise all the time!
And when you think of other companies that almost never advertise but have been there for decades and decades like Mackay rubber hoses here in Australia, they must be good because you never hear of them but they're always there. Apparently they don't need to advertise to make a quid!
Just my thoughts 💭.
I’ve used this set for 75k no issues. As a matter of fact my stock set went at 60k can’t bash it cause it’s china. There are tons of Japanese parts that aren’t great.
I dont think that the terms of the Gates warranty would be any different for the Chinese sourced parts, and you havent come up with any evidence that they are in fact inferior.
I do agree with you that the labeling on the box is misleading. What, if any, consumer laws do they breach?
Love this review lol. Great job!