Are Gates Subaru Timing Belt Kits Good? - Gates N Kit - OEM Japanese Parts?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- AISIN OE Type Kit for EJ Turbo Cars TKF-004 - amzn.to/3ppeppH
Gates N Kit for EJ Turbo No WP TCK328N - amzn.to/3V08p7d
Gates N Kit for EJ Turbo w/ WP TCKWP328N - amzn.to/3aI9D2j
AISIN Waterpump for EJ Turbo Cars WPF-023 - amzn.to/3fDWOdN
More links below. Please verify any fitment before buying. If you would like help selecting the correct timing belt kit for your Subaru, please leave a comment below and I will try to get back to you.
Gates used to sell Subaru timing belt kits with all OEM components at a much cheaper price than buying from the dealer. At some point, they switched to sourcing many parts from China and countries other than Japan. Customers were unhappy with this change and some reported increased failure rates. In response, Gates started selling kits ending with an “N” notation. These Gates N kits are supposed to feature all OEM components like their older offerings. Few sources had taken the time to verify if these Gates N kits were worth buying, so this video takes an in depth look at one. This particular kit is for EJ turbo models, such as the WRX, STI, Forester XT, Legacy GT, and Outback XT. I hope this video helps answer some questions.
Please leave any feedback below. Also check out this video by MrSubaru1387 that examines the AISIN timing kits. Subaru Timing Belt Kits: The Best & Only Choice. - • Subaru Timing Belt Kit...
More Timing Kit Options:
Subaru OEM Kit for EJ Turbo Cars - amzn.to/38zUmxZ
Subaru OEM EJ Turbo Water Pump - amzn.to/2KVDPMr
Gates Cheaper Kit EJ Turbo TCKWP328 - amzn.to/3aCpUWD
Gates N Kit EJ Turbo no WP TCK328N - amzn.to/3aCZPqk
Gates Cheaper Kit EJ Turbo no WP TCK328 - amzn.to/2WJP1OW
Gates EJ Turbo Water Pump - amzn.to/2WE3FY4
AISIN EJ Turbo Water Pump - amzn.to/3riPWnA
My Social Media
TikTok: / 802garage
Patreon: / 802garage
Instagram: / 802garage
Facebook: / 802garage
UA-cam: / 802garage
If you want to see more and support me:
1. Like this video if you liked it.
2. Then share it with a friend!
3. Subscribe to my channel.
4. And ring that notification bell!
5. Leave a comment below.
6. Go check out my other videos!
7. Become a patron on Patreon.
8. Follow me on social media!
Sponsorship, Partnership, Business Inquiries
amillet90@gmail.com
#Gates #TimingBelt #SubaruTiming #SubaruTimingBelt #SubaruTimingKit #TimingBelts #TimingKit #EngineTiming #BoxerEngine #BoxerTiming #EJEngine #DIYRepair #DIYMaintenance #DIYMechanic #SubaruMaintenance
Patreon Supporters Thanks so much to all of you!
The OG 10:
Evan Ford - 1/26/19
Lin Chester - 1/27/19
the_Bidji - 1/27/19
Roy Gillotti - 1/27/19
David Owens - 1/27/19
Dave - 1/30/19
Debunking Cars - 2/16/19
Olle Ronn - 2/17/19
Brandon Mitchell - 6/4/19
3 Wheels & A Block - 6/25/19 - Авто та транспорт
This guy deserves more subscribers. Very informative.
Thank you that means a lot! I have been way behind on content lately, but I have lots of informative uploads coming as well as big project series. 😁
Happy Holidays. I love the insight on things like this.
Happy holidays! Great to hear I'm the same way.
A 802 Garage video for Christmas, 2020 is not ALL that bad. Nice to hear from you, my dude. :P
Hahaha thank you! Hope you've had an ok year. More videos very soon.
oh wow thank you for the info just what I was looking for just picked up another subscriber.
I knew some people would be searching for the information because I had searched for it a lot! Glad to help. Much appreciated.
Hello Aaron. Happy Christmas
Hello and same to you!
Merry Christmas Aaron.
Hey thanks, you too!
The main reason I believe the body of the tensioner is different is because of copyright issues or whatever, bearing on the tensioner is still NSK, I installed the one from the AISIN kit on my Impreza works fine. Also if you contact AISIN they will say that their tensioner is made all in japan and it comes in a NSK box with lettering made in Japan.
Yeah they of course can't use the Subaru name for example. As far as I can tell, the tensioner in the Gates "N" kit is exactly the same as the AISIN, both tensioner and bearing which is NSK as you said. All of the casting marks and manufacturing looks identical. Would be very surprised if it wasn't the same. AISIN is still the better bet overall.
You only need one component to take the whole belt out. Gates isn't what it used to be. Dayco started making rubbish ages ago.
Oooooooh I got excited when I saw this title, I’ve been wondering if they changed anything since I did the last report.
N stands for “Nippon” aka Japan.
@@MonkeyWrenching IS THAT why they used N? Despite knowing Japanese, that's not something I thought of, hahaha. Also yes I saw your video while searching how to title and tag this video! I believe you bought non N kit, right? They definitely use primarily Chinese bearings to this day and I believe a USA or otherwise made timing belt. Probably made by Dayco or something. Even the normal Gates belt is generally fine though.
@802Garage I’d compared the “N” kit to the non, but I did the kits without the water pump included. Just timing kits. I also called NTN to ask them about the different tensioners, I did learn a bit about the non branded tensioners being still made by NTN as a house brand but due to legal reasons they weren’t allowed to brand it as they were under contract with Subaru to make the OE style. Unfortunately I think they found out I was recording the call and publishing it, they later refused any further divulging of information, for legal purposes I’m sure.
Aw yeah, an 802 Garage video!
I've seen Mitsuboshi belts before, and my first thought was that they were a bootleg company trying to look like Mitsubishi, but the serpentine belt I looked at in person looked like a quality part. What's your experience with them?
They are the OEM for Subaru timing belts. Actually a very reputable company. The naming is just unfortunate coincidence. I believe they OEM belts for quite a few companies. Couldn't give you the list though, hah. Thanks man!
Mitsuboshi is legit.
@@802Garage - Mitsuboshi is OEM for my 2006 Toyota Highlander with 6 cylinder 3MZ- FE engine
Christmas came early this year.
Haha thank you! You were also first. :)
I bought a Subaru that had a Gates kit put on about 30k ago. The water pump leaks quite fast from the weep hole. Replaced with an Aisin WP and life is good.I can't warranty the pump because I didn't own the car when installed. Personally I'd stay away from the Gates pumps after my experience.
That's definitely frustrating. I think buying the kit without the water pump and buying a different pump separate would be best. I also don't like that the one idler is Chinese or unmarked, though in most cases I don't think it will have an issue within the interval. If the Aisin kit is within $20-50 it's almost definitely worth it. I just wanted to evaluate the option though, since the Gates N kits were supposed to go back to OEM quality. Especially for people who don't plan to keep a car for another full timing belt cycle, I understand wanting to save money.
0:15 I don't know for certain, but my guess is the N stands for Nippon or Nihon. Nippon and Nihon are the Japanese word for Japan.
Great point! Why didn't I think of that? Only took Japanese for two years! My only other thought would be it stands for "NTN" since it includes the NTN tensioner bearing.
P.S. Love your name haha.
Been a while since you have posted my man.
Haha yeah been that way lately been focusing on working on the big build behind the scenes and posting on TikTok. Steady growth was proving incredibly difficult on UA-cam, but I'll be back in full force. Meanwhile more evergreen videos like this help pay the bills.
@@802Garage well I hope you come back soon and stronger than ever. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
@@urielsalas9265 Thank you truly appreciate it! I always want the channel to be a mix of informative and fun, so when the V10 build gets uploaded it should be a lot of fun. :D
Different suppliers may get components with varying quality control grades from manufacturers? ie: Subaru,Aisin ,Gates might get Grade AA, Grade A, Grade B meaning more or less bad components per 1000.
Is the forged impeller on the WP better than the stamped? Don't count on getting any kind of warranty response from Gates. I had a Gates NSK cogged idler go bad in 6 months, but saved the engine.
That quality difference is of course possible depending on the component, manufacturer, buyer, etc. In this case I genuinely believe the Gates components in this kit are 100% identical to the Aisin kit for example, save the belt, the small idler, and the water pump and gaskets. As for the water pump, Subaru as well as almost all aftermarket suppliers have moved to the stamped impeller for replacement parts. In order to get the old cast impeller, which just to be clear isn't forged AFAIK, you have to buy specific part OE part numbers or old stock parts which are getting harder to find. The general belief from enthusiasts is that the cast impeller had less cavitation at high RPM, and is thus desirable for performance applications, but that for daily driving the difference was negligible. Strange that the NSK bearing would fail that fast, but it can always happen. Bearing part # is identical to OEM, which means the grade of manufacture should be as well. I hear you on all accounts though, impossible to account for every little difference. The car these were installed on has been problem free at least.
I installed a Gates kit on my Non-turbo SOHC motor 7 years ago, and I do believe all the stuff back then was Japanese made. I'm not trusting Gates for the next one. I went with ContiTech instead. NPW Japan made pump. 2 GMB Korean made bearings, Tensioner and lipless idler: NTN Japan. Belt: Germany. Cam seals: Made in Taiwan
The gates N kit seems good all except for that one unknown origin idler. The ContiTech kit sounds good though. Korean made is probably trustworthy, I too would probably go with OEM cam seals as they are pretty cheap. German belt is interesting, but I wouldn't doubt it will last just fine. Thanks for the info!
Contitech don't have my vote, I'd go Aisin or INA. Gates isn't what it used to be
Thanks. Some dildo left the o ring on the tensioner bolt when mounting to the engine and i was wondering where it came from when i found it on the floor after changing a new kit that did not have the o ring.
To be fair, you are supposed to leave the O-ring on, though it doesn't do anything critical. Would definitely cause me consternation if I didn't know where it came from too!
Did you see Emelia Hartford blew up a Honda motor in a Prius? She also blew up a motor in a c8 corvette too.
Bahahaha I did! Brent and the BoostedBoiz helped get her sorted fast though. I'm excited to see what Pronda can do.
In my experience the cogged pulley fails the most. Had several subarus in a row with that chucking the bearings out
That seems to be the first to fail for me as well, though I hear the cars with the small idler, the single row versions at least, would fail first.
I used this kit in my 1997 outback in 2019. Since then (now 2022) I've put 21k miles on the car and the belt broke without warning. The adjuster was soaked in oil also. Now I'm spending $4k on new valves and a new piston. I'm using Subaru parts from the dealership now
Was it the Gates N kit or the normal Gates kit? I personally would not use the normal Gates kit. The belt snapping in 21K miles leads me to think there was something else wrong. I have seen even the cheapest timing belts on the market last 60K+ miles with no issues. This belt was actually quality and made in the USA. When you say the tensioner was soaked in oil, do you mean the piston itself or the pulley? There really shouldn't be enough oil in the tensioner to soak anything unless it explodes suddenly. I would think the belt grabbing and snapping actually caused the tensioner to be forced suddenly inward exploding the oil out of the piston. To me, it honestly sounds like something in your engine locked up, likely a cam, and that caused the belt to snap and ruin the tensioner. Even cheap Chinesium parts generally last longer than that. Sorry for your bad experience though and good to know!
The top half of the tensioner was coated in oil. Nothing else under the timing belt cover was wet. I think the tensioner went out and maybe the belt was bouncing or jerking?
@@jamieelder7438 It's possible, but overall the symptoms definitely lead me to believe the belt caught on something or a cam gear stopped causing extreme pressure on the tensioner which caused the oil to come out. Purely a guess though. Still bizarre that happened at all.
Just curious and this might help others but why does the A/T cars not require the red spacer when installing the timing belt? Haven't been able to find out this info anywhere.
Automatic cars don't come with the small timing belt guard manual cars do. The manual cars need the guard because if the car is in gear and rolls backwards, it can roll the engine backwards, which can cause the timing belt to slip teeth over the crank gear. The small guard prevents this and it requires correct spacing. Automatic cars don't have this issue because the torque converter would absorb any movement and the parking pawls should also stop the car. Hope this explains it!
Good video
Thanks!
The Chinese tensioner in the Gates kit is still getting negative feedback on Amazon. There are reports premature failures. Also the tensioner will allow belt slap, producing an engine knock.
Those reviews are for the non N kit. There are no reviews for the N kits on Amazon. The tensioner in this kit is different from the non N kit as far as I know and looks identical to the tensioner that comes in the AISIN kit. As far as I can tell the only Chinese components in this kit are the water pump and smallest idler. Obviously everyone should buy with their best discretion though and overall it may be more worth it to just go AISIN.
FWIW this kit is still going strong in my niece's daily driven Forester.
Hi ,is the tck328n without the waterpump same bearing as your review?planning to buy 1 at rockauto.
Yes as long as it has the N at the end of the part number it should be everything the same as in this video except for the water pump. Sorry for the delayed reply! If you do buy it and there is a difference please let me know.
Yall ever done the head gaskets on a 2.5l legacy? Been putting it off for sometime now and wanting to tackle it come summer time
Definitely look at all the videos MrSubaru1387 has made on the topic. I believe he has a full step by step tutorial.
@@802Garage killer. I'm just outside the Rutland area and don't really want to take it to a shop here. Figured I'd take a week from work and do the gasket and clutch
@@EricRacine123 As long as you have an engine crane and a pretty general tool set you should be able to manage. Technically you should have the block and heads done proper at a machine shop, but there are a lot of varying opinions and videos on that as well. Just absolutely make sure you buy the updated MLS gaskets and not any off brand.
I replaced head gaskets on 2.5 fozzy from 2001
in this video, the letter N used = oe , what does A mean at the end of other product codes?
I actually emailed Gates to ask the same question and this was the response.
"The “A” at the end of the part number indicates Gates improved tensioner. The “N” indicates NTN bearings. The “RB” kit is our performance kit, the kit with out a letter is just our base kit."
I asked in a follow up what was improved about the tensioner and where it was made, but never got a response. My guess is that the improved tensioner is sourced from a Gates factory rather than being what seemed like an Aisin identical tensioner in the N kit. Therefore I have no idea how good it will be, but hopefully better than the tensioner in the base kits. It should still have Japanese bearings if it is an N kit, but I can't recommend the AN kit without knowing where the tensioner is made or what has been changed. I'll try to email Gates again at some point. You can still source N kits without the A. If you let me know your model and year I could get you a link if you're interested. Otherwise Aisin is still a good bet.
Aaron, Did you know Sarah-n-Tuned"S friend who passed away a couple of videos ago? Did he have a you tube channel? lmk. That was heart breaking to watch.
I did know. Very tragic. I don't believe he had a channel.
Just wanted to make sure before I order my kit for my 05 outback 2.5XT. It has 90k and want to plan ahead. The GATES N kit for my car is the TCKWP328N? Thanks for your time.
That is correct. I see it at $207.79 on RockAuto. Don't forget to use a 5% discount code!
@@802Garage Thank you so much.
@@mustangnotch You're welcome!
Just bought a Duralast kit for mine at Autozone and within 500 miles the tensioner was failing. Wish I had the time to wait for a name brand one to ship but I needed the kit now.
Ouch! I'm assuming it was a made in China tensioner? Did you do the bleeding process?
I assume the whole kit was made in China but I'm not sure. The belt was Mitsuboshi, which was nice. The tensioner sat upright for at least 10 hours before pulling the pin so there was no need to bleed it.
@@mitchell9937 Nice the belt was correct at least, but that really sucks the tensioner was no good.
I picked up a timing belt kit for a Honda at AutoZone and the water pump went out in less than 5 months. Now I only buy Aisin or Napa auto parts brand.
Hey What's Up,I'm Looking Forward To Buy A Kit For My Wrx And Is This Kit Any Good?Im Currently Gonna Get A New Oil Pump So I Might As Well Get A New Timing Kit Too.What Do You Recommend? Thx
Haha never seen someone type in all Title Case. What year is your WRX? There is nothing WRONG with this kit IMO, but the one Chinese idler is not ideal. I'd also recommend getting an Aisin or OEM water pump instead of the Gates. This one should honestly work fine though.
I'd pass if the water pump is made in China. I'd go with an Aisin Kit
Yeah, I do think for the best long term reliability, getting an Aisin or OEM water pump is the best bet. You can buy the kit without water pump to save money and choose your own pump separately.
Just get the Aisin kits. Or Subaru oem.
Obviously do what you think is best for your vehicle! No problem with this kit yet. The only thing I really don't like is the single Chinese made bearing on the small idler. Everything else is OEM except water pump. If having all Japanese bearings is your priority and you don't mind the extra $60-70, AISIN is the way to go. The water pump is likely slightly better as well, though I doubt anyone will ever know the difference within timing belt intervals.
Been awhile on youtube, don’t have a tik tok account.
You can watch stuff in browser without the app if you'd like, www.tiktok.com/@802garage but otherwise I will be uploading more here soon. :)
Has the gates tck304n hold up good???
Zero issues after well over a year. I believe I installed it in September of 2020 and the car was daily driven. Many thousands of miles. I would anticipate no issues. The only potential worries are the water pump and the single Chinese idler. Even those should not be a problem. If you have any concerns OEM and AISIN are both great options, just a lot more expensive right now.
@@802Garage I ordered a kit and all the idlers are japan made.
@@ronniewavebio7112 Nice! The only one that wasn't in this kit was the small idler, but I think the non turbo cars don't even have that one.
@@802Garage No, it doesn't come with the small idler. The only thing is that the belt is made in the USA.
@@ronniewavebio7112 Hey made in USA is better than China, hopefully. Thanks for the info.
Uh oh Mr. Subaru is gonna beef with you
Nahhh he'll be chill. I still said the AISIN kit is better and I even recommended his video, hah. :)
Gates sux. Lol Japanese cars, Japanese parts. 😝
@@MrSubaru1387 Hahaha. If it wasn't for the one unknown origin idler. 😭 Gates gets so close and screws it up. 😜
@@802Garage tensioner is China 🇨🇳. Small idler is China 🇨🇳. Water pump, China 🇨🇳. Idk why they give Loctite. 100% not needed. 🤮 🤮 🤮
@@MrSubaru1387 My confusion with the tensioner is that it looks identical to the one that comes with Aisin.
I'm just here for the Scotty Kilmer content. I heard anything other than Toyota is crap.
😂 Accurate. Why does Gates even make parts for non Toyota vehicles? All hail the Toyota king.
Do not use that tensioner that’s how people get bent valves
Well again, it looks identical to the tensioner in AISIN kits to me. So I have a hard time not recommending it. AISIN kits are also seemingly hard to get right now.
@@802Garage you can get the tensioner for about 107 bucks from Subaru Parts Direct(dealer in Oregon) then the belt from them too for 64 bucks w/ free shipping.
Then all 3 pulleys directly from the NSK store on Amazon for about 70 dollars.
@@anthonyr5869 $107 is half the cost of this entire kit. Did you watch the video? Most components are OEM identical except the small tensioner pulley.
@@802Garage I did, I just would rather buy oem. I had a rebuilt Subaru engine break a belt one of those Chinese tensioners. They are finicky cars I’m just not going to risk putting on Chinese cheap tensioners
@@802Garage anyhow I am subbed great video
the chinese water pump seems to be machined with many sharp right angles. Corners are bad m'kay. Corners on metal objects that experience heat cycling are REALLY bad, m'kay?
Fortunately I don't think you're at any risk of cracking anything, but I don't doubt the Japanese made pumps are much superior quality. I always check the surfaces and the fins to make sure there are no glaring issues.
@@802Garage Good man! Always thoroughly check every part! ya don't want to have to repeat a whole job again later.
@@MagnusFeirenbacher You'll never regret double checking, but I've def caught a few things I would have regretted not checking!
Damn I wasn't first!
🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Still very early! You were third. 🥰
Aisin beating Gates IMO
I overall definitely agree, although in this case only because of the single Chinese idler bearing and the water pump. The difference is of course price!
@@802Garage Yes, you're right. But you only need one party to break, and then that moment is the start of a very bad day.
@@user-sf7kl9uh7k Absolutely. I think for a vehicle worth a lot of money, modified, or low miles, spending the bit extra makes sense. I think for a daily driver you aren't that invested in or you simply need to do the timing belt, but are low on funds, the Gates N kit is probably the second best option that can save $40-100+ and still be reliable. I know what it's like to be very broke hahaha. Obviously also matters if you are doing the work yourself or not.
God dammit I got the wrong hit mine said China I was reluctant to put them on but I did now I’m regretting it
TBH as long as you installed them properly they should be fine. If it was me, I would just plan for a 60K mile change instead of 100K to be on the safe side.
@@802Garage the main one that went to the crank shaft said Japan on it which I think is the most important one
@@jamesonmoscatelli3710 Yeah the cogged pulley is the most common to fail apparently.
I just realized the timing belt + water pump kit I installed in my 2010 STi 2 years ago is the kit without the "N". I had no idea Gates was being this shady when I replaced it, always thought Gates was good stuff. I've driven it about 25k miles now, daily driven, only have fun with it every now and then. Now I'm worried, should I replace it or wait another 40k?
Holy crap I’m early
Second even!
That’s 19 mins I won’t get back 🙄🙄🙄 just get the sodding thing in already !
LOL this video is not at all about the V10 and was filmed a few months ago. This kit was installed on the 2004 Forester XT I was working on. Sorry. 😬