Watch the full episode here: ua-cam.com/video/w2vRRZwN1Wg/v-deo.html To see the entire series go to: ua-cam.com/play/PLUaRlPOu98p0clsG0U0jGoU91tl5q3-sK.html
His explanation actually reinforced his error. 🤯 You can’t have it both ways Bill - saying you believe He didn’t set aside his divinity, then saying He was an achievable standard for us to achieve.
@@Yard_Machine THAT is the biggest one! Also, even if we tried to sacrifice ourselves for the sins of another, it would be of no effect. Why? Because Jesus IS God and we are NOT!
Again, Jesus did NOT lay his divinity aside. He submitted Himself fully to the power and authority and direction of the Father. If Bill really knew what he was talking about he could make that distinction.
@@countbless3360 Keep in mind there's a difference if I say that Jesus emptied himself of his divinity ( which we both know that's not what's being talked about here) as opposed to saying that Jesus layed aside his divinity. When theologians says that Jesus layed his divinity aside they are basically saying that he did not lay hold of or *cling* to his divine attributes. Of course he didn't empty himself of his divinity. Spurgeon said.. Do not, however, forget the glory that Jesus *laid aside for a while* . Remember that he is very God of very God, and that he dwelt in the highest heaven with his Father; but yet, though he was thus infinitely rich, for our sakes he became poor, that we, through his poverty, might be rich.
@@Jackson-kq4ro I can agree with Spurgeon in totality because i see the context of the text. The quote you presented from the Philippians 2:8 sermon titled "Our Lord in the Valley of Humiliation" is a beautiful sermon. The Glory he is referring to the voluntary laying of His privileges aside. The God of Heaven enjoying the full Glory of the godhead laying aside this privilege came down to become the creature and to die the most shameful death on the Cross, shameful because the death on the cross was for the most wretched of society. Moreover like i mentioned earlier the context of the text in Philippians 2 is about humility of a Christian, how a brother must humble himself and serve his brother. The verse therefore in relation talks nothing about the diety nor the divinity but the humility of how Christ the Almighty God became a man to serve us
@PeoplesTemple Tom's native language is french. Tom learned a new language, Spanish. Therefore, Tom cannot speak French. Analogous fallacious reasoning.
@@unnecessaryedits2818 what like Be God on earth? Jesus sent out the 12 to heal the sick etc. Our instruction is to preach the Gospel to all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. It's confusing that Jesus said to bring the sick to the elders anointing them in oil and they will be healed. Did Jesus mean this to be physical miraculous healing? The way my mind reads it it does seem that way. However I haven't always seen that happen. All I know is God is in control and be is Good. If we fix our hearts and eyes on heaven we know that we will have complete healing in heaven. So that's what I look forward to. The reality is we don't see Bethel healing everything. Even though that is what Bill Johnson taught "I refuse to accept a theology that allows Sickness" if that were true his own theology has failed before it even started. Good that he doesn't believe that anymore but there needs to be an apology a d repentance for teaching false things! They don't take it seriously. Just brush it off as if it doesn't matter. People could adopt a theology that doesn't allow sickness. Then what if their spouse does of cancer and they curse God...or of they feel like they haven't had enough faith etc. That causes horrific spiritual damage.
@@stephenthompson9722 Well, firstly I must make clear that I believe the charge to heal the sick and perform other miraculous deeds is not only for the 12 Apostles, but for all believers. We see in Mark 9: 38-40, as well as Luke 10:1-20, that not only the 12 had the power and authority to perform these miracles. I see nothing in scripture that suggests the powerful acts and gift of the Holy Spirit are only for the Apostles. Secondly, Jesus didn't tell his disciples to bring the sick to elders to anoint with oil, that was James. Obviously, James's writings are inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Jesus, but I just thought I should point that out. Thirdly, in regards to your question: "what like Be God on earth?" I believe we are supposed to walk in and follow the example of Jesus. He even goes so far to say in John 14: 12-14: "Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." And we are of course made in the image of God. And as believers, we are baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit, whom Jesus calls "The Helper." Fourth point you say that we don't see Bethel healing everything. And that's right, we don't. We also don't see Jesus healing every sick person in Jerusalem or Galilee. With the lame man at Jacob's Well, Jesus healed only him (or at least that all scripture shows), and not the others at the pool. And Jesus raised Lazarus, but not anyone else from that tomb. I make this point because this is an argument that I myself have made, and often heard, but I no longer do. I think Jesus healed whomever the Holy Spirit led Him to heal. And I believe that with modern miracles, the Holy Spirit also leads us. He is the one who choses where we go. That's what I believe about it anyway, Final point. Bill Johnson's statement on refusing to accept a theology that allows sickness. I believe he simply means that he refuses sickness to go unchallenged. I can understand why people might take it the wrong way and get offended, but I just don't, and these days I try to assume the best about people's intentions and not the worst. Especially my fellow believers, which includes Bill Johnson. I don't think we are supposed to simply tolerate sickness and allow it to go on unchallenged (same with evil spirits, sins, ect.), and I DO think that there is a lack of faith in much of the Church today. I think there are many true believers in Christ who do not believe in the power of the Holy Spirit anymore, power over sin and sickness and evil spirits. Anyways, that's a lot, let me know what you think.
I’m praying for this man….make it simple brother. Just preach Jesus. His lordship, His sovereignty, His preeminence!!! You’re confusing yourself…just preach Jesus. Not miracles by our hands, not works we ought to do or who we should be…just Jesus and our dependence on Him for salvation and through sanctification
Amen to Jesus’ lordship, sovereignty and preeminence! Sounds like the kingdom of God to me :) “The gospel of the kingdom is the news that the direct rule of God is now available to all in and through Jesus Christ. Among other things, the announcement of the kingdom brings to center stage the supernatural power of God over disease, death, and the kingdom of darkness.” -J. P. Moreland Seems to me that that is exactly what Bill is trying to do. :) Side note: honestly though, theology is not always that simple. I just watched a Remnant Radio segment on the topic of Kenosis featuring clips from Bill Johnson, John MacArthur and some others and it is extremely nuanced.
@@boluwarin tisk tisk. He did to show who He was, God in the flesh, here to redeem people like me who sin and are far from the Lord. He never did any work outside of what the Father appointed Him to do (John 5:19). Pick a scripture that you think I’m wrong in and I can teach it to you. Your hermeneutical errors show in your comment my brother. Just trust in the Lord that He came to save you from your sins. Trust in Him - that is to abide, entrust your life, and turn from your ways and slow HIS WORKS, His completed work of the cross, to be the basis of your faith and subsequent works.
Wish they could sit down at the table with Costi Hinn and Johnny Mac. Kinda odd how they approached responding to all their critiques 10 years after without dealing directly with their arguments.
I agree. They make it sound like they are happy to have an open dialogue, when the truth is this book has been in print for years and Bethel have never recalled it or publicly apologized for any misinterpretation. They are trying to salvage years of ignoring critics and complaints.
I have seen Costi's refutation of the kenosis teaching, but does Johnny Mac refute them directly? I haven't read all his books yet. Curious where I can find that. Thanks!
“For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form” Colossians 2:9. When Christ walked the earth. He never emptied Deity of Himself. He restrained the USE of his Deity attributes. To show us an example of what it is for a man to be dependent on The Father through The Power of The Holy Spirit.
He did not restrain his deity, he was deity. He did and said what only Yahweh did and said. He was pronouncing "I am Yahweh" and the Pharisees knew that and why they wanted him dead. He was more than an example to us, he came to be the sacrifice for our sin because we cannot follow in his example. Jesus said we had to be perfect as our Father is perfect. That is impossible apart from his sacrifice for our sins. He's not just an example for us to follow through the power of the Holy Spirit. We have to start with his perfect life and sacrificial death which enables us to even follow him to begin with. Our standing before God doesn't come from following his example but rather trusting in his finished work in our place. 1 Peter 2:20-24
@Dean Agnor I don’t deny that he had human limitations as a man. But did Jesus do miracles as a man dependent on God or because he was God? Also, for the record, Jesus commandments were for all believers, not just the apostles. However, I think we differ on how that is exercised for those after the apostles and I don’t think we’ll ever agree there.
@Dean Agnor I want to make sure I’m understanding what you’re saying, so please correct me if I’m misunderstanding you. What I’m hearing is that you are saying that Jesus did his works by the power of the Spirit, NOT because he was God himself? I don’t have time to lay out all the verses, so I’ll just take Jesus walking walking on the water. In the Old Testament, we have Job 9:8: “[God] alone stretched out the heavens and trampled the waves of the sea” and Psalm 107 tells of the exact scene and it was the Lord who saved them. Jesus says “ego eimi” which is the Greek rendering of God’s name “I Am”. Peter calls him Lord. After it was over, they worshipped him, Jesus, not God. Jesus didn’t say, “no, only worship the Father because that’s who really did it.” Jesus didn’t always come right out and say what or who he was. But his actions link to the Old Testament which really testify who he was and what he was doing. He is Yahweh, Lord God. So he didn’t just work in the power of the Spirit, he did what only Yahweh could do. So if I am understanding you correctly, then this teaching means that believers can do what only Yahweh can do if we just have enough faith and obedience?
@Dean Agnor the greater works is in the number of people sharing the gospel and making disciples (greater in numbers), not in the same type of works (not greater in quality or type of work). We see the answer to that in the verse itself "because I am going to the Father." Fully agree it is all about him and we won't fully understand the hypostatic union. That's why I won't take it further than scripture but Johnson, Bethel, and others in comments, are certainly seeking to do that and using language that travels close to the unsafe waters of unorthodoxy.
@Dean Agnor If all believers are anointed to do these miraculous works, Paul kind of shoots that down in 1 Corinthians 12: "Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?" It's a rhetorical question because not everyone can work miracles, even empowered by the Holy Spirit.
What Jesus chose was obedience, not dependency. That’s the model for right-relationship with God. Jesus is the authority over us as the Christ/Messiah/Anointed One. If we are obedient to Him and to the will of the Father then we can operate in the authority of Jesus Christ. Without Him we can do nothing. We are not “anointed ones” we are obedient servants. There’s a crucial difference.
@Dean Agnor "For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise." It is obedience. The ESV is helpful here. Jesus does not work "of his own accord." He has submitted himself to the will of the Father. (this is what it means that he emptied himself - of his own will in Phil. 2). He is working in obedience to the Father's will, it's not that he is unable, but rather he is obedient to only do what the Father does. He has equal power with him. In that passage in John 5, he goes on to build a case that he is equal with the Father, not dependent upon him as some are saying. Louisa is spot on!
@Dean Agnor how did he see Nathaniel sitting under the tree when he was not there, how did he know what was in the hearts of the Pharisees and know what they were thinking? Scripture tells us he knew those things. It was his omniscience. I would argue that the miracles displayed his omnipotence as the Creator (I'm guessing you disagree). I will grant his omnipresence as a man was greatly limited. But we do see his omni's in many places in the Gospels.
@Dean Agnor Jesus didn't say he was equal with God? Are you saying John didn't really understand what Jesus was saying. He provides commentary himself in the verse just before the one you quoted above: "This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. (John 5:18)" Even the Pharisees understood Jesus was saying he was equal with God but you say he wasn't?
@Dean Agnor thats pretty rude - dont you think? I don't know anyone in here as I doubt any of us do either. I think thats a bit unnecessary to tell a complete stranger they are clueless basically!
@@deana.9883 wrong.....why even blurry the lines at all....why not at the start speak God's Word with clarity. There is a reason why they're doing this video, because it's not clear what he was teaching, what he wrote about, and there are many questions
But it wasn’t - it was just worded in such a way that some took it a different way. They’ve changed it. Isn’t that enough? You can’t retract all the books ever published. They’ve acted with integrity.
@@Estherbeth or was it worded in such a way that Bill could claim plausible deniability when challenged on the errors? Why not simply be clear about it in the first place?
Isn’t it important what the Bible says....the same power that raised Jesus from the grave.....and yes, Jesus identity was and is God....but He lived perfectly with the limitations of man.....
@@ProducerJames91 maybe you're not that familiar with the hyperstatic union concept. Yes, He lived as a man and perfectly kept the law as an example to humanity that sin is our failing, not God's. However, His identity as God was never removed and the authority of His name is the only thing that we operate by as Christians. Just like the 70 disciples in Luke 10
J. P. Moreland (professor of philosophy at Talbot school of theology), “I now believe that Jesus’ public ministry was done in his humanity, as a perfect man, doing in dependence on the filling of the Holy Spirit what he saw his Father doing.” Gerald Hawthorne (professor of Greek for 42 years at Wheaton College), “Jesus is living proof of how those who are his followers may exceed the limitations of their humanness in order that they, like him, might carry to completion against all odds their God-given mission in life-by the Holy Spirit.” Just some food for thought!
The Full gospel in its full reality just explained. He was God but walked under the full limitation of man and full awareness of the Holy Spirit. Bless you, for this quick message.
@@jimmyray5524 How he was fully God and fully man_.... 1.Conceived by the Spirit and born by man. 2. Began his mission by the baptism of the Holy Spirit and tested at all points as a man. 3. He who knew no sin(God) became sin (man). 4. Who, being in the form of God, did not consider it [b]robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. - Philippians 2:6-7.
Wong, wrong ,wrong. Scholarship would teach that Jesus did not leave his divinity behind, he left his authority behind. The Father was his authority and he did was his Father told Him.
BJ clearly states in more than one of his books that until Jesus was baptised He was just a man like us without the Holy Spirit. If he was ever without the Holy Spirit, you were saying that He was not God. Glad you've changed your mind Bill. Shame you couldn't admit that what you said was fundamentally adrift when the error was pointed out. What about the grave sucking, water divining, or your son claiming that we are all born good? How will you explain those errors now? These things are not about love tank, but about introducing alien spirits and false teaching,
Some of these comments! If only you came in without your mind made up. This could really help you! You don't think you can do what Jesus said to do, so your ministry is reduced to attacking and mocking someone trying to help you with it! If you just listened, then stepped out in faith, you could have a real ministry to people who need healing and hope! Or, even if you're convinced he's wrong, wouldn't a real believer just ignore this and demonstrate how it's really done, rather than wasting time? Matt 23:13.
Steve one day when your eyes are opened to the truth you will see that only the disciples/Apostles were given power by Jesus to perform miracles. If you read from Romans through to Jude you will see that miracles slowly disappeared and healings slowly disappeared. Why because they were a sign for the Jews just like tongues were a sign for the Jews. What does Paul say when you pray in a tongue someone should interpret or you should ask for the interpretation or be Quiet. Why …….because tongues were languages not gibberish as Paul says. I would rather pray with my understanding what does that mean Steve study your word mate and find the truth. I was following people like Bethel. And I studied the word and discovered the truth. I hope you will as I did god bless
Not true. I've experienced signs and wonders. I've been given almost 30 miracles in my health as I'm on the helm of FULL healing. God has used my vessel for His Power, which He be glorified. BUT, I still believe God's Word is authoritative and how I know who God is. It's also been the foundation of what I've experienced by God's Grace over the years.
Jesus' 'I do nothing...' statement wasn't a limitation of power but a limitation of action. It wasn't that he was unable to perform certain actions but rather that he limited his actions to those which he saw the Father doing. His purpose was to reveal the Father. He imitated the Father so that the invisible God was made visible. Bill's belief that Jesus had to perform miracles as a man in order for us to be able to do the same is misguided. We are able to perform miracles because of the authority we have 'in Christ'. Matt 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go... ".
They were indeed a limitation of his power. To fully represent man, as the second Adam, Jesus emptied himself, completely transforming into a human with all its limitations and frailties. To subscribe to any other hybrid Christ, is indeed false and gnostic and a deviation from the biblical Christ.
J. P. Moreland writes a book called, Body and Soul, in which he describes through a thought experiment how a being can experience extreme modification to it's inner and outer self, yet maintain it's own identity, which will not experience any change and never be lost. This is what happened to the divine Logos. He became a man and dwelt among us. This was a radical transformation, indeed.
So it seems that the fatal flaw in your theology is that Jesus was “modeling a lifestyle and setting a pattern for us.” This is very dangerous theology unless you believe we can bear the burden of sin, we can have knowledge of the thoughts of others, we can bring the dead to life, we can/should receive praise from our followers. Most theologians believe the kenosis is referring to Jesus emptying himself of his glory and privileges. I think this is why there is such an uproar about Bethel creating their own path rather than considering who Jesus is and what he gave up. It seems that the foundational flaw is the strong desire for us, humans, to be able to do what Jesus/God did/does. With that as a central belief you adhere to, of course you have to create a Jesus that fallen humans can replicate. It’s not too different than common proof texting where a teacher has a topic they want to preach on and they find a verse outside of context to make it work. All that to say, your theology makes sense for your belief system but it certainly seems flawed and deceptive to many.
Had to watch to listen to his Christology. Came in with a open mind, don't have a issue. Deity of Christ, Trinity, etc. He could chose better words to explain Kenosis (which he cleaned up). Thanks for posting.
Origen, an early Church Father, to Celsus said 'And with respect to His having descended among men, He was “previously in the form of God;” and through benevolence, divested Himself (of His glory), that He might be capable of being received by men. '
Being Fully GOD and fully man yet HE is one CHRIST this is what all of us believe . But my humble opinion is that his emptying HIMSELF shows us HIS humility of choosing to become a human being , the Begotten WORD who was GOD became flesh , the very act of the incarnation is an emptying in GOD THE SON’s part, as you rightly pointed out that HE can never cease to be GOD if so we are lost ,but became man through a Virgin Birth because all things are possible with GOD . It is true that HE depended on the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT for everything, but in the Most HOLY TRINITY dependence on each other is an essence of loving unity , the FATHER depended on HIS SON to do HIS will on the cross and the SON depended on the SPIRIT to empower HIM , a coeternal cooperation similar to how the FATHER created the world through HIS WORD ( THE SON ) by HIS SPIRIT who hovered over the deep in the beginning. With regard to the miracles whether JESUS did them as a human alone or as GOD alone should never be an object of conflict between HIS hypostatic union because HE said in John5:20 “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.” Which means that The SON is so intrinsically united to the FATHER that HE can do only what the FATHER does which actually magnifies CHRIST’s divinity because what the FATHER does the son also does and the works were meant to be a testimony to the fact that JESUS was the Son of GOD, because the mistake of the Pharisees was to point out that JESUS being a man could not forgive sins , and the question of JESUS that they couldn’t answer was from the prophecy of David ( THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD SIT AT MY RIGHT ) JESUS will ask them -“if David calls HIM LORD whose Son is he “? JESUS always made sure that people understand HIS divinity while HE was a human being ,but with regard to HIM commissioning us to do the very works that HE did and even greater works is so wonderful because now HE has left us the greatest treasure through which all things are possible for us by HIS HOLY SPIRIT which is HIS holy name ‘JESUS ‘, it is through HIS name we receive whatever we ask the FATHER because the FATHER is glorified when we ask HIM anything in the name of JESUS , when JESUS exorcised demons HE never used HIS own name but the demons came out by just a word of command , rather it was the demons who testified that JESUS was the son of GOD the only instance where they spoke the truth because they encountered truth HIMSELF. But when JESUS sent HIS disciples to do HIS work, HE sends them in HIS own name , the authority HE gives them actually is to carry HIS name which tells us about the nature of HIS mission “ THE LORD SAVES “ YAH SHUA . Luke 10:17 “ The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name." Also St Peter in Acts 9:34 tells Aeneas “ Jesus Christ heals you. Get up and roll up your mat." This is just for us to understand that in imitating CHRIST’s miraculous works we need not undermine HIS divinity because the very works testify to HIS divinity , also there is the great danger of pride when miraculous signs start to follow a believer if HE thinks that JESUS set aside HIS divinity so that we can pursue HIS miraculous works ,rather than believing that JESUS CHRIST the SON OF GOD and SON OF MAN is the one who heals and delivers by using us HIS chosen instruments. JESUS said heal the sick , raise the dead and cleanse the lepers but it doesn’t mean that we can heal the sick or raise the dead by our own power , rather only by complete dependence on HIS name which is actually HIS character especially HIS faithfulness .At the end of the day what can a man profit if he can gain the entire world yet forfeit His soul. Because even if miracles begin to happen by the shadow of the believer , eg .St Peter , the world May brand him as a holy person but the same St Peter said it was not by his own holiness the miracles happened rather it was the faith that comes through JESUS who is fully GOD and fully MAN but one CHRIST. It is a fact that I can do all things but it is only possible through CHRIST who strengthens me , apart from CHRIST I am nothing , our motivation is elevated even more when recognising CHRIST in us the hope of glory , just as the Father is in me ,I am in you and you are in me was the promise of JESUS and so our dependence on JESUS ‘s divinity and humanity makes the works more exciting and beautiful because our healer JESUS CHRIST can relate even to the physical pain of the sick person through HIS humanity and can also impart the gift of faith to the one praying and the one receiving by HIS divinity . He uses our erring lips to speak HIS word which is full of the HOLY SPIRIT and life which is even more humbling and beautiful for us who minister to the sick .Amen .
We don't have to believe anything like this about Jesus to think that we can perform miracles. If someone's not a cessationist, they tend to just think that we can have the gifts of the Holy Spirit as the apostles did in Acts.
Why not just preach the whole Gospel? So few people ACTUALLY teach the word without additions and philosophy. We have enough information in the word without the social engineering to muddy the water.
@@myclassmate7588 , the true OT prophets didn't walk with Jesus on earth, and their message remains.. similar with Paul. God's inspired word doesn't need human adjustments.
@@susanelisd5584 crystal clear? Yes hindsight is 20/20, but why do you think the prophets were martyred? Because people didn’t understand, it wasn’t crystal clear for the vast majority of people in that time.
@@myclassmate7588 I think if you read the prophets, their message is clear, to turn away from their sins and idolatry. Their problem was wilful disobedience to the Word of God, and so they murdered those who proclaimed what they did not want to hear.
I am in no way a Bethel “yes man“. When I disagree with something I will be open about it. Having said that I cannot speak highly enough about how Bill has handled this situation. In addition, I am just surprised that that someone can struggle with the concept of the Kenosis. Jesus grew in wisdom and stature. He was not omnipresent. He was, indeed, dependent on the father. Theologically bill is spot on on this subject.
That's only because you haven't had good teaching and don't know what all Christians have agreed about for 2000 years. You might as well endorse a JW or Mormon. He is teaching that Jesus Christ was restrained from ever using his own power while on earth because his purpose was to show people how they can work miracles with the help of the Holy Spirit when he is gone. First, that is blasphemy. Second, that's not the gospel.
@@toomanymarys7355 You are assuming that I haven’t had teaching on the matter. Indeed I have. Not only that but I have researched it on my own and taught on the matter as a Bible teacher and academic director at 2 Bible schools. I will point out that in all your dogmatic statements you failed to supply your points with one Bible verse. The is a simple matter that it is 1. The Orthodox positioned of Church history and 2. It is easily seen in s scripture. A. Jesus could do nothing on his own Jn. 5:19 “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself. He does only what he sees the Father doing. Whatever the Father does, the Son also does.” B. The doctrine of the Kenosis has been taught through out church history and rightly so as it is clearly a Biblical truth. Phil 2:7. Historically the conflict has been that there have been heretical groups that have affirmed the idea. However that’s simply the logical fallacy of guilt by association. It doesn’t matter ‘WHO’ believes something. It matters what the Bible teaches. The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus did not possess certain ‘Omni’ attributes. Jesus, while being Devine, was not omnipresent Jn. 11:15. He was also not omniscient Lk. 2:52 and Mark 13:32. This is part of His Kenosis and yes, it is part of the Gospel. It’s there. Read it for yourself. One more thing. Did He empty Himself “for the purpose” of showing us that we can do the same thing? I wouldn’t say that. It certainly doesn’t ever state that in the Bible. However I think it is, indeed, important to recognize that He could do nothing on His own.
@@toomanymarys7355 “It may be that some of Jesus’ miracles flowed from his divine nature, yet there is a consensus among New Testament scholars that most, if not all, were expressions of his humanness.” -J. P. Moreland (professor at Talbot school of theology) Bill Johnson is not alone in his view that while being fully man and fully God (as he explicitly stated), Jesus did the works he did dependent on the Spirit. Other theologians that would agree include Thomas Oden and Gerald Hawthorne, to name a few.
Basic prosperity gosple among other things. BJ himself saying he doesn't accept a doctrine that allows sickness. Isaiah 45:7 I form light and create darkness, I make well being and create calamity. I am the Lord who does all these things On the surface a lot of bethel teachings sound good. But through careful study of scripture you'll find many things are twisted. We think that false teachers will be obvious. But Jesus doesn't tell us to be careful and watch because it'll be obvious, but because they come as sheep, but inwardly are wolves.
@My classmate I disagree. We are told in scripture to be Berean, to compare teaching with scripture, to judge teachings, prophesies etc. I find the dialogue about these things to be helpful. Bethel and Bill have intentionally placed themselves on an international platform with tremendous influence in the Church. We need to wrestle through these things.
If He really emptied Himself of His divinity, Him telling men "your sins are forgiven" while being in the form of man wouldn't make any sense. Only God has that power, to forgive sin. Also what does he do with Colossians 2:9? Bill Johnson definitely seems to fit the description of Colossians 2:8. This is a terrible view of Philippians 2:5-7
I'm happy to have seen this video. Yesterday I watched someone quoting pastor Bill on the miracle Christ performed as a man, not as God, and then concluding that Pastor Bill doesn't believe in the deity of Christ, which I commented as being nothing but heretical belief (I should delete that comment by the way 🤔). But with this video, I see the context, and it comforts me in my position about not paying that much attention on what "social theologian warriors" are saying online...😅 Now I don't necessarily disagree with what pastor Bill says (by the way, who am I? I must pay him respect because of the yoke of the Lord on his life. I'm not even sure I have studied as much as he did). However, with the little that i have received through trainings and studies, I see that there are things that "seem" to be lacking. But hey, for me, the majors of our faith are there, and I'm glad. I'm mostly glad because, even beyond the majors of theology being present, I can discern a heart that is influenced by God's Love, and that is willing help people to the best of what he has received. I salute and honor that. The Church will be 2000 years on Earth soon, but hey, we are still growing. And this I know: THE PERFECT PLAN OF GOD IS ALWAYS ADVANCING, AND IT PERFECTLY INTEGRATES OUR IMPERFECTIONS. I'm happy and optimistic! Things are getting better, in Christ! Amen!
There is a playlist on this channel called Rediscovering Bethel where Bill Johnson responds to many of the questions or concerns people have had. You might find it helpful.
When we witness someone getting healed we did not perform the miracle, we witnessed God perform a miracle. We don’t need to believe that Jesus was acting as human in order to say that we are also able to witness God performing miracles. Is Bill Johnson saying that Jesus needs to be human in order to demonstrate that we can be spectators to God’s power or is he saying that we can perform miracles?
Johnson does make an error in saying Jesus laid his divinity aside. That is not correct because he was divine in his identity as the 2nd Person of the Trinity. He did lay aside his own divine attributes. He admits poor choice of words.
1 Timothy 2: 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: Sorry guys but Ya'll missed the mark. Yeshua Ha Mashiach was the Messiah not ELOHIM.
Great explanation. I loved that book! It was the first time that scripture made sense about Jesus emptying Himself ( choosing to live as a man) though Fully God and fully man. He did miracles and taught others the same. I love the bible, including the mysteries I don't fully comprehend. Thank you for everything you do!
@@Mike65809 it is not only poor choice of words, it more it is a false teaching no matter how you try to make appear to be true. A wolf in sheep clothing is still a wolf.
@@paulcorathers1336 No can't agree. Do your own study on the nature of Christ, especially from the Gospel of John. Don't let previous proclamations influence, like that from Chalcedon. You may be surprised what you find.
In what way was Jesus still God while existing as a man? Jesus was tempted, but God can't be tempted. Right? Explain that you who think Johnson is wrong.
Simple if you don't read what you want to into the text. That is called eisegesis. Eisegesis is the process of interpreting the text in such a way as to introduce one's presuppositions, agendas, or biases. This is precisely what you and Bill here are doing, brother. How does what you're saying make sense? Deut 6:16 "You shall not tempt the LORD your God as you tempted Him in Massah. Matthew 4:7 Jesus said to him, "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the LORD your God.'" This isn't a contradiction it's a misunderstanding of the text.
@@Mike65809 That's weird Mike. If God can't be tempted as you say the text reads. Why were the Israelites warned not to tempt Him? Deut 6:16 "You shall not tempt the LORD your God as you tempted Him in Massah.
@@BrandonGarcia-uk3si Yes, they tested him - tested his patience. But the scripture says God cannot be tempted with evil. See James 1:13. Yet Scripture does say Jesus was tempted in all ways like us, yet without sin. See Hebrews 4:15.
Their statements of faith say one thing but BJ preaches/writes something else. BJ is experienced and knowledgeable enough of scripture to know how to talk about the hydrostatic union without going anywhere near heretical statements. Either BJ is super careless, or he actually believes some really dodgy theology.
@@Holyrighteousandfree basically they don't know when the Lord is coming back, they don't have the revelation of His Return that Rev Joe Morris has, check that message out, you'll be happy!
Did Jesus learn of his untapped miraculous power in his childhood? You may notice that Jesus' own brothers and family did not believe in him. If he did miracles as a child, wouldn't they have believed in him? But he did no miracle until baptized by the HS. Now of course, all will admit that as Logos, he created the universe. But he left those divine attributes behind.
I can't find the command to those who would believe after the Apostles to do miracles, the epistles reinforce that if they won't believe the law and prophets they won't believe a sign such as resurrection. In lystra Paul performed a great sign and yet they didn't believe in Christ, but rather continued in their idolatry seeing their myths to be "confirmed".
What these videos have convinced me of is that Bethel is just tremendously bad at interpreting scripture and communicating what they mean clearly. I don't doubt their sincerity, I just think they're confused about a few things.
Excellent Questions and Right Answers JESUS fully GOD fully Human , the Son of GOD YAWEH , born of the HOLY SPIRIT in a chosen DIVINE womb . Blessed is the man whose salvation is in the name of our Lord JESUS our GOD Amen
You weren't listening closely enough. Bethel teaches that Jesus locks up all his powers and doesn't use them so that he is an example of all the miracles we will work if we walk in faith. That's a different gospel.
@@toomanymarys7355 : If you really believe what he spoke is not soothing your ears then may be you need pray once again and listen it with open heart and not judgemental heart Because many protestants have birthed in many forms one was against Catholic CHURCH then came the protestants and then now inside born again there is real group of Holy spirit and the opposite is evil spirit in the name of JESUS . Even if one man who by the help of Holy spirit builds a temple of God a opposite who is a born again without knowing he is possessed by an evil spirit ATTACKS the same born again temple where he is baptized and brought into salvation At the end either catholic or protestant or born again or Anglican or even you and me as temple of God as we believe we fall short of Salvation it is this reason we need JESUS The only best way is to not judge the others unless you are really driven by GOD THE FATHER OR THE WORD OF GOD , IF YOU ARE DRIVEN BY THE HOLY SPIRIT JESUS THEN LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS YOUR SELF 💐
Let’s get one thing straight. Whilst the Messiah is authentic God and authentic man or true God and true man to say that ‘Jesus is fully God and fully man’ or ‘Jesus is 100% God and 100% man’ is just moronic in the extreme?! Absolutely nothing, by means of a single nature, can exist as both fully God and fully man?! The Messiah, as God Incarnate, simultaneously exists as Infinite Divine Creator, YHWH (Isa.43:11) and finite human creature, Jesus of Nazareth (Jn.14:28; 1Tim.2:5) only by means of the hypo-static union (two distinct but not separate natures). The Son as Divine is NOT Jesus of Nazareth. The Son as human is NOT YHWH but the Son is BOTH Divine Creator AND human creature. Simonline 😀👍🙏
Bless you Bill, im grieved by how much fire youre getting from professing christians. I appreciate your heart to not be offended by them, but rather cry for them, and pray for them to come to a full understanding of the heart of God in all this. And the importance of the unity of the church, despite difference in belief. As long as our foundation in Christ is unchanged. Repentence from dead works, denying ourselves, follow Him and not loving our lives until death. The church today need to come to the realization of what unity is, and what loving one another really means. Love you guys ❤
Bill Johnson is misunderstood because his theology and handling of the Bible is shallow. He is not precise in his words and careless (particularly if writing this in a book). I want him to explain the Gospel in such a way that encourages Christians to evangelize. I haven’t heard ONE sermon of his that makes Jesus real.
I'm someone who naturally tends to align more with the Reformed and Calvinistic schools of thought, but I have to say, when I first heard the quote about Jesus "laying his divinity aside," I immediately took it as saying Jesus simply left his divine position when he came to Earth in a physical body and fulfilled His ministry (I mean, He did, didn't He? He wasn't in Heaven when He was on Earth preaching the Kingdom?). That's how I still read it, and since I've never heard Bill deny Jesus as The Christ, the Son of God, or God Himself, I have no reason to assume it means that Jesus stopped being God or divine.
But Johnson says Jesus did his works as a man empowered by the Spirit, not as deity. He says this so that we can have an example to follow and we can do his works in the Spirit as well. I too am reformed/Calvinistic, and thats no reformed teaching I know.
@@jonathanchaney5896 To be clear, I naturally lean reformed/calvinistic, but I don't consider myself in that camp. He says Jesus did those works as a man empowered by the Spirit because Jesus WAS a man empowered by the Spirit, and God at the same time. He's not denying Jesus's divinity when he says Jesus did things as a man while being empowered by the Spirit. You're right that he makes that point so that we have an example to follow and can do Jesus's works in the Spirit as well, and I agree with him. I believe that we are to follow Jesus's example and do the same works in the Spirit, even greater, through faith in Him. Now you see why I don't consider myself reformed/calvinistic.
@@unnecessaryedits2818 so he was empowered by the Spirit AND God? That’s not what Johnson says. He was a man obedient to God, sinless and empowered by the Spirit. Somehow still divine but only working as a man. That denies the entire nature of God in the Person of Jesus. Big problem there. That’s as if The Sin within the Trinity can be less than God. The essence and nature of the divine within the Trinity is equal. God cannot be divided or separated.
I think I already pointed out that he’s not denying Jesus was God while in physical form, only emphasizing His humanity and Spirit embodiment to encourage believers that we can follow His example.
Bill never states that Jesus wasn’t God. Never. And he’s not denying that Jesus was divine while also living as a man. Jesus was God and man at the same time, right? If Bill had a history is saying things that implied Jesus wasn’t God or divine while He was on the earth physically, then I would say you’re statements might be more likely. But he hasn’t, at least I’ve never heard it before. He preaches that Jesus is God, the Son of God, the Christ, all those things we agree upon. If you’ve heard him say otherwise anywhere, please tell me. I think a good way to test his words to test Bills meaning is to ask yourself “Why?” Why would be constantly preach the divinity and Godhood of Jesus consistently, only to try and say that Jesus wasn’t Divine in a single line in a book? What would be the purpose? To be frank, and I apologize if I’m wrong, but you really seem to be reaching to find something wrong in what he’s saying in this clip. Can you really not believe that Bill wasn’t denying Jesus’s divinity when he was focusing on His humanity? Do people have to say out loud that Jesus is God/divine every time they talk about Jesus? Is Jesus’s humanity not important?
Its not about what we think or believe, its about the truth of Gods word. What did Paul the apostle to us Gentiles say? He said there is to us but ONE GOD...THE FATHER...read your bibles
Hmmm … My interpretation is I think JESUS can switch on and off between His two natures. Can’t He do that? Why not? HE is fully man and fully God. He has two natures. I don’t believe that when Hie is demonstrating His humanity His divinity is no longer there. Is HE restricting His divinity? In my opinion, I don’t think so. He doesn’t have to. He just has the ability to switch between His two natures. Is this a ridiculous notion? It should be! Otherwise JESUS will just be like an ordinary man. I don’t believe we, the created beings, will every have the capacity to explain in human level our CREATOR, JESUS. That is also a ridiculous thing to believe, that we will ever have! Give our CREATOR the due honour and respect He solely deserves. That is, we, the created beings, will never be able to explain HIM in all that He is, as if we are the ones who created Him 🙏🙏🙏
Why did Jesus say his Father is greater than he? The fact is the divine Logos took on human flesh and only did miracles by the Father working in him by the Holy Spirit. He did not use his own attributes of deity.
@@toomanymarys7355 Read the Gospel of John. See John 14:28. Also do know Jesus did all of his works by the Father dwelling in him. That would mean he was not doing them by his own miraculous attributes. The current Chalcedon understanding is Nestorian.
This is so amazing. I know what Bill Johnson means but many people don’t understanding it. I’ve been praying for bethel and God is changing the things I’ve been praying for. I love the book WHIE but there was that one thing that I thought could’ve been written differently so people don’t misunderstand it and He is talking about changing the language in that. I Love bethel and God has used Bill Johnson’s teachings in my life that have edify me greatly
I love this - God is awesome & indescribable! 💛 But reading some of the comments & hate here is heartbreaking! 😢 Such a massive sign of the severe lack of spiritual maturity & grace from those who claim the name of Christ. ✝️ Holy Spirit, we so need you to transform our hearts & minds, & to help us love each other the way you commanded us to! 🔥🌏
John 10:1: “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber." You are listening to a robber.
The way you continually "apologies" is shocking to say the least, by laughing and making it idle chat of all your mistakes is certainly not humbling or repenting before God. I do agree that we have to serve the love of God and be forgiving and admonish from the point of God's love. But please guys, you have to relook your ways and teaching and wherever mistaken, bow your hearts before Jesus and be careful of pride. Be careful of NAR and WOF theologies and teaching and be true followers of Jesus Christ?
Paul doesn't believe Adam is Jesus. He's saying that Jesus paralleled Adam in the ways that he described in that passage. You could also think of it in terms of typology, but I'm pretty sure that neither Paul nor Bethel believes that Adam is Jesus. They just believe that Jesus got it right where Adam got it wrong, and Jesus' victory over sin allows righteousness to propagate through all of humanity who receives Him as Lord.
No worries. I just think you believe in a different Jesus. Gods Son Adam was First Man in the Garden. In the End their is A second Adam who fulfilled the Law. Ask Siri “who is the last adam” She will say Adam is Jesus. Correct?
@@adamlarsen2348 - the last Adam and the first Adam are not the same person. The Bible is clear that Adam (a.k.a. the first Adam) was created and Jesus was not. They are not the same person. Jesus is fundamentally different from the first Adam. If the Jesus you believe in is a created being, then I definitely believe in a different Jesus from you. The Jesus I believe in is the one through whom all things were created (see John 1:3).
Any body can read the creed and say that's our statement of faith, so did the Jews who persecuted the true prophets, but to then say jesus had to be born again, or he was limited as a man. When Jesus always did the will of his father, so then the excuse is well i need to change the language a bit, why not admit he got it wrong in plain words.
Because Jesus lived in a human body and suffered what we suffer that means we can do the same things Jesus did? Think about it, we may have the Holy Spirit within us which sanctitfies us in the eyes of God, but it does not make us the Son of God equal to Jesus. He did certain things to fulfill the prophecies of the O.T. in order that his Messianic place would be revealed. That does not mean that we can all do what He did. There is a lot of falshood and deception in Bethels teaching. Twisting the scripture is what cults do.
Johnson was right. If Jesus did miracles that were not from the Father, he would have glorified himself, which he could not do. He had to be a perfect human. It was the Father who glorified him because he did the works of the Father. "He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him" (John 7:18). "Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God" (John 8:54). The miracles his did were not his own, but the Father working in and through him. Also, "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works" (John 14:10). Where Johnson gets it wrong is saying Jesus laid his divinity aside. That is incorrect because he was still the LOGOS in his identity. This is key. But he admits poor choice of words.
John 14:11 - “Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.” - John 14:11 If Jesus is just a man, then how can he be in the Father? There’s a trinitarian relationship and union between them. It’s not just that the Father was in Jesus but the Son was in the Father as well. How can that be if he had no power outside of the Spirit?
@@jonathanchaney5896 The Father was in him doing his works by the HS. I'm not sure what he meant to say he was in the Father, but we are in the Son at this time, also. We are in Christ. If we are in the Son, we are in the Father also. If you study the Gospels you will see the HS is the Spirit of the Father, and the Son.
@@Mike65809 You don't know what he means by him saying that he is in the Father because you reject the Bible and the Christian faith for the lie of Satan: ye shall be as gods. The theology that says that Jesus came to show you how to operate in the supernatural and bring heaven to earth is pure Satanism. There is a reason that revelation called the churches sojourners on earth. It is not our job to bring heaven to earth but to work the harvest for heaven, which Christ will bring down. The gospel is not having superpowers but that we are sinners saved from our sins.
@@toomanymarys7355 I don't defend all that Bethel says. I don't even know all that they teach. I am just agreeing with Johnson that Jesus left behind his miraculous attributes when he became flesh. This is why he was anointed by the Holy Spirit. In fact, "Christ" means anointed one. The miracles he did was by the Father working in him by the HS. Yet he kept his identity as the divine Logos. Hope that helps.
You say nothing about the need for the Son of God and the Son of Man to be such for the redemption of sinners at the cross. You totally missed why Jesus came. He came not to be your example, but to be an atoning sacrifice. May I never boast except in the cross of Christ. I determined to know nothing among you except Christ crucified. Try preaching the cross alone for one year and not "faith and the supernatural."
We would invite you to explore more sermons to grasp the honour and deep reverence we have for the Cross and the pressing need for each person to surrender their lives to Him.
@@Bethel_Online "honor and deep reverence for the cross." What does that even mean? The cross is your only hope of forgiveness and reconciliation to God. I have listened to a lot of sermons. I can't remember hearing one on the cross. Send me a link.
The eerie laugh of a man who uses God’s Word for financial gain just gives me such an uncomfortable feeling. Bill Johnson is a false teacher. No matter how much he dances around his words he’s a new age charlatan. It’s not just in his Kenosis theory.
@@SquishyyyBeaner Then why are you here? The pharisees didn't understand Who Jesus was either. They were too busy straining out gnats and swallowing camels.
@@louisaisthankful6455 hahaha yeah that’s what you guys say. Always calling everyone a Pharisee. These teachings they have are heretical. Read your Bible. When’s the last time you did that?
@@louisaisthankful6455 we are here because we want to know is Bill Johnson is actually correcting his wrong teachings. He's not sadly :( basically saying oh people just don't fully understand what I'm saying. Oh we understand and what he teaches is not from God. It's not in the Bible. You should listen to something Bill teaches and see if you can. Read a few paragraphs of the Bible and see if it says what Bill says. It never does sorry. Bill picks a verse here and there then explains what it means. No one would ever pick a sentence from a book then explain what the story is....no anyone else would simply read the story.
I don't understand y people don't get what Bill is trying to get at in the book. He has to write and then explain what he wrote. Such a ignorant generation
I think we get and recognize it for the false doctrine it is. That’s exactly why they are attempting to clarify but only prove it is what they believe.
Anyone else extremely disturbed by how much laughter there is in these videos? These accusations are extremely serious and none of the laughter seems appropriate
Christ's ontology is part of the plurality of what it means to be God. His kenosis only brought His conscious awareness in parity with with what is means to be man. God condescending to live in the limits of what it means to be a man. That cannot be shared with any other created consciousness. His ontology is categorically above that which is from below. Even during Christ's presentation to Israel by John the Baptist that distinction was revealed. John 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. ὅτι πρῶτός μου ἦν· John 1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. ὅτι πρῶτός μου ἦν· Not created before me, or a created being at all. ". . . and the Word was God." καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος. That is a categorical distinction of what it means to be God, and no man can share that category. It is simply no within the realm of the possible, even for God.
“Fully God and fully man” contradicts Phil 2. The Logos WAS fully God but Jesus emptied himself and became a man. An emptied God cannot be “fully God”! What did he empty himself of? I propose omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience. The infant Jesus was likely not omnipotent. The child Jesus was not omniscient as he “grew in wisdom” which God cannot do. I submit neither was Jesus omnipresent When the Spirit came and rested on Jesus he took on the attributes of God in subservient (limited) form, or became a servant as Phil 2 states. He was omnipotent in the Spirit. He was omniscient in the Spirit. He was omnipresent in Spirit. However, he can do nothing of himself, only what the father tells him or shows him via the Spirit. It is the Father’s will and Jesus obedience to it. He could do nothing of himself. Even the 12 legions of angels he can call upon cited is via an appeal to the Father, not of himself. Jesus is not “choosing not to use his divine attributes” as he has emptied himself of them! “True God and true man” works better but we should really stop making up our own creeds and quoting them but rather just quote the verses directly which are pure, holy and without blemish.
The problem with that thinking is that Jesus was tempted to turn stones into bread. You're not tempted to do something that you can't do. Jesus had the ability to do those things as the Son of God, but he didn't do it because it wasn't part of the plan for him to function as a man.
@@JewandGreek this of course points to another way in which Jesus "emptied himself" of his divine attributes. God cannot be tempted in any way (James 1:13) yet Jesus was tempted in every way (Hebrews 4:15). The Word made flesh was infinitely weak compared to God who is infinitely strong. No, Jesus did not bow to any temptation and thus did not sin.
@@alexandermeyer-mendiola2068 exactly! If someone wants to throw out creeds, that's a red flag unto itself. However, if one only wants to look at Scripture, John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit even before he was born (Luke 1:15), but yet Jesus wasn't?
As in volume and reach, I’ll grant you that. But not greater in power. No one can exceed themselves dying and raising from the dead. Not to mention all the works he did. John says all the books in the world cannot contain all Jesus did.
Johnson talks in riddles and word salad not even he himself could understand his ramblings it’s just a massive exercise in damage limitations I’m sorry the damage has already been done you can’t put the blue genie back in its bottle
@@bryanwang9095 We are called to call out error it is not without grace that I make these comments it is with righteous anger that people are misled by such churches as Bethel Hillsong et cetera my friend blessings to you
Deut 18:18 kjv I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. John 12:49-50 kjv For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. Acts 3:22 kjv For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. Acts 2:22 kjv Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know Matthew 3:16 kjv And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him 1 John 5:7 kjv For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. My friends, Messiah is not God nor a god.....there is only one God Isaiah 45:5 kjv and that one God sent his Son Messiah as the New Covenant which gives us Grace! btw, we are all children of the Father, at least us that have the Spirit, we are. I pray your eyes open to the truth!
Watch the full episode here: ua-cam.com/video/w2vRRZwN1Wg/v-deo.html
To see the entire series go to: ua-cam.com/play/PLUaRlPOu98p0clsG0U0jGoU91tl5q3-sK.html
His explanation actually reinforced his error. 🤯 You can’t have it both ways Bill - saying you believe He didn’t set aside his divinity, then saying He was an achievable standard for us to achieve.
Where is the contradiction?
Was there anything that Jesus could do that we can't do?
@@waynehampson9569 For starters - heal AT WILL, instantly, any disease. How about walking on water? There are MANY things...
@@waynehampson9569 forgive sin.
@@Yard_Machine THAT is the biggest one! Also, even if we tried to sacrifice ourselves for the sins of another, it would be of no effect. Why? Because Jesus IS God and we are NOT!
Again, Jesus did NOT lay his divinity aside. He submitted Himself fully to the power and authority and direction of the Father. If Bill really knew what he was talking about he could make that distinction.
You do know many of well respected theologians in Christianity over the centuries will disagree with your understanding of scripture.
@@Jackson-kq4ro Sure bro, name them. You seem to know a lot of Church History.
@@countbless3360
Keep in mind there's a difference if I say that Jesus emptied himself of his divinity ( which we both know that's not what's being talked about here) as opposed to saying that Jesus layed aside his divinity. When theologians says that Jesus layed his divinity aside they are basically saying that he did not lay hold of or *cling* to his divine attributes. Of course he didn't empty himself of his divinity. Spurgeon said..
Do not, however, forget the glory that Jesus *laid aside for a while* . Remember that he is very God of very God, and that he dwelt in the highest heaven with his Father; but yet, though he was thus infinitely rich, for our sakes he became poor, that we, through his poverty, might be rich.
@@Jackson-kq4ro I can agree with Spurgeon in totality because i see the context of the text. The quote you presented from the Philippians 2:8 sermon titled "Our Lord in the Valley of Humiliation" is a beautiful sermon. The Glory he is referring to the voluntary laying of His privileges aside. The God of Heaven enjoying the full Glory of the godhead laying aside this privilege came down to become the creature and to die the most shameful death on the Cross, shameful because the death on the cross was for the most wretched of society. Moreover like i mentioned earlier the context of the text in Philippians 2 is about humility of a Christian, how a brother must humble himself and serve his brother. The verse therefore in relation talks nothing about the diety nor the divinity but the humility of how Christ the Almighty God became a man to serve us
@PeoplesTemple Tom's native language is french. Tom learned a new language, Spanish. Therefore, Tom cannot speak French. Analogous fallacious reasoning.
The intro summed it up perfectly. Bill wants people to do the same things Jesus did..but we aren't Jesus
Doesn't Jesus empower us to do the things He did?
Bill doesn’t even do what Jesus did. So ironic.
@@unnecessaryedits2818 what like Be God on earth? Jesus sent out the 12 to heal the sick etc. Our instruction is to preach the Gospel to all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. It's confusing that Jesus said to bring the sick to the elders anointing them in oil and they will be healed. Did Jesus mean this to be physical miraculous healing? The way my mind reads it it does seem that way. However I haven't always seen that happen. All I know is God is in control and be is Good. If we fix our hearts and eyes on heaven we know that we will have complete healing in heaven. So that's what I look forward to. The reality is we don't see Bethel healing everything. Even though that is what Bill Johnson taught "I refuse to accept a theology that allows Sickness" if that were true his own theology has failed before it even started. Good that he doesn't believe that anymore but there needs to be an apology a d repentance for teaching false things! They don't take it seriously. Just brush it off as if it doesn't matter. People could adopt a theology that doesn't allow sickness. Then what if their spouse does of cancer and they curse God...or of they feel like they haven't had enough faith etc. That causes horrific spiritual damage.
@@stephenthompson9722 Well, firstly I must make clear that I believe the charge to heal the sick and perform other miraculous deeds is not only for the 12 Apostles, but for all believers. We see in Mark 9: 38-40, as well as Luke 10:1-20, that not only the 12 had the power and authority to perform these miracles. I see nothing in scripture that suggests the powerful acts and gift of the Holy Spirit are only for the Apostles.
Secondly, Jesus didn't tell his disciples to bring the sick to elders to anoint with oil, that was James. Obviously, James's writings are inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Jesus, but I just thought I should point that out.
Thirdly, in regards to your question: "what like Be God on earth?" I believe we are supposed to walk in and follow the example of Jesus. He even goes so far to say in John 14: 12-14: "Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." And we are of course made in the image of God. And as believers, we are baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit, whom Jesus calls "The Helper."
Fourth point you say that we don't see Bethel healing everything. And that's right, we don't. We also don't see Jesus healing every sick person in Jerusalem or Galilee. With the lame man at Jacob's Well, Jesus healed only him (or at least that all scripture shows), and not the others at the pool. And Jesus raised Lazarus, but not anyone else from that tomb. I make this point because this is an argument that I myself have made, and often heard, but I no longer do. I think Jesus healed whomever the Holy Spirit led Him to heal. And I believe that with modern miracles, the Holy Spirit also leads us. He is the one who choses where we go. That's what I believe about it anyway,
Final point. Bill Johnson's statement on refusing to accept a theology that allows sickness. I believe he simply means that he refuses sickness to go unchallenged. I can understand why people might take it the wrong way and get offended, but I just don't, and these days I try to assume the best about people's intentions and not the worst. Especially my fellow believers, which includes Bill Johnson. I don't think we are supposed to simply tolerate sickness and allow it to go on unchallenged (same with evil spirits, sins, ect.), and I DO think that there is a lack of faith in much of the Church today. I think there are many true believers in Christ who do not believe in the power of the Holy Spirit anymore, power over sin and sickness and evil spirits. Anyways, that's a lot, let me know what you think.
@@unnecessaryedits2818 Absolutely, through the Holy Spirit power. We are to do the works that Jesus commanded. Jn 14 12
I’m praying for this man….make it simple brother. Just preach Jesus. His lordship, His sovereignty, His preeminence!!!
You’re confusing yourself…just preach Jesus. Not miracles by our hands, not works we ought to do or who we should be…just Jesus and our dependence on Him for salvation and through sanctification
Amen! Jesus and the Gospel are Salvation!!!!!
Amen to Jesus’ lordship, sovereignty and preeminence! Sounds like the kingdom of God to me :) “The gospel of the kingdom is the news that the direct rule of God is now available to all in and through Jesus Christ. Among other things, the announcement of the kingdom brings to center stage the supernatural power of God over disease, death, and the kingdom of darkness.” -J. P. Moreland
Seems to me that that is exactly what Bill is trying to do. :) Side note: honestly though, theology is not always that simple. I just watched a Remnant Radio segment on the topic of Kenosis featuring clips from Bill Johnson, John MacArthur and some others and it is extremely nuanced.
And what did Jesus say to do? I don't think some of you read your Bibles
@@boluwarin tisk tisk. He did to show who He was, God in the flesh, here to redeem people like me who sin and are far from the Lord. He never did any work outside of what the Father appointed Him to do (John 5:19). Pick a scripture that you think I’m wrong in and I can teach it to you. Your hermeneutical errors show in your comment my brother.
Just trust in the Lord that He came to save you from your sins. Trust in Him - that is to abide, entrust your life, and turn from your ways and slow HIS WORKS, His completed work of the cross, to be the basis of your faith and subsequent works.
Simple means sovereignty? Can God flood the Earth? If not is He truly sovereign? Instead of sovereignty, how about obedience? That is what Lord means.
Wish they could sit down at the table with Costi Hinn and Johnny Mac. Kinda odd how they approached responding to all their critiques 10 years after without dealing directly with their arguments.
I agree. They make it sound like they are happy to have an open dialogue, when the truth is this book has been in print for years and Bethel have never recalled it or publicly apologized for any misinterpretation. They are trying to salvage years of ignoring critics and complaints.
Exactly..no repentance of previous false teachings. Lots of dodging not addressing the core issues.
I have seen Costi's refutation of the kenosis teaching, but does Johnny Mac refute them directly? I haven't read all his books yet. Curious where I can find that. Thanks!
“For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form” Colossians 2:9. When Christ walked the earth. He never emptied Deity of Himself. He restrained the USE of his Deity attributes. To show us an example of what it is for a man to be dependent on The Father through The Power of The Holy Spirit.
He did not restrain his deity, he was deity. He did and said what only Yahweh did and said. He was pronouncing "I am Yahweh" and the Pharisees knew that and why they wanted him dead. He was more than an example to us, he came to be the sacrifice for our sin because we cannot follow in his example. Jesus said we had to be perfect as our Father is perfect. That is impossible apart from his sacrifice for our sins. He's not just an example for us to follow through the power of the Holy Spirit. We have to start with his perfect life and sacrificial death which enables us to even follow him to begin with. Our standing before God doesn't come from following his example but rather trusting in his finished work in our place. 1 Peter 2:20-24
@Dean Agnor I don’t deny that he had human limitations as a man. But did Jesus do miracles as a man dependent on God or because he was God? Also, for the record, Jesus commandments were for all believers, not just the apostles. However, I think we differ on how that is exercised for those after the apostles and I don’t think we’ll ever agree there.
@Dean Agnor I want to make sure I’m understanding what you’re saying, so please correct me if I’m misunderstanding you. What I’m hearing is that you are saying that Jesus did his works by the power of the Spirit, NOT because he was God himself? I don’t have time to lay out all the verses, so I’ll just take Jesus walking walking on the water. In the Old Testament, we have Job 9:8: “[God] alone stretched out the heavens and trampled the waves of the sea” and Psalm 107 tells of the exact scene and it was the Lord who saved them. Jesus says “ego eimi” which is the Greek rendering of God’s name “I Am”. Peter calls him Lord. After it was over, they worshipped him, Jesus, not God. Jesus didn’t say, “no, only worship the Father because that’s who really did it.” Jesus didn’t always come right out and say what or who he was. But his actions link to the Old Testament which really testify who he was and what he was doing. He is Yahweh, Lord God. So he didn’t just work in the power of the Spirit, he did what only Yahweh could do. So if I am understanding you correctly, then this teaching means that believers can do what only Yahweh can do if we just have enough faith and obedience?
@Dean Agnor the greater works is in the number of people sharing the gospel and making disciples (greater in numbers), not in the same type of works (not greater in quality or type of work). We see the answer to that in the verse itself "because I am going to the Father." Fully agree it is all about him and we won't fully understand the hypostatic union. That's why I won't take it further than scripture but Johnson, Bethel, and others in comments, are certainly seeking to do that and using language that travels close to the unsafe waters of unorthodoxy.
@Dean Agnor If all believers are anointed to do these miraculous works, Paul kind of shoots that down in 1 Corinthians 12: "Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?" It's a rhetorical question because not everyone can work miracles, even empowered by the Holy Spirit.
What Jesus chose was obedience, not dependency. That’s the model for right-relationship with God. Jesus is the authority over us as the Christ/Messiah/Anointed One. If we are obedient to Him and to the will of the Father then we can operate in the authority of Jesus Christ. Without Him we can do nothing.
We are not “anointed ones” we are obedient servants. There’s a crucial difference.
If you look up the word anointed and the word Christ in greek you might think different.
@@jasonroth1006 no, that's literally my point. Christians are not Christ. Jesus is Christ. You are not god. God is God.
@Dean Agnor "For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise." It is obedience. The ESV is helpful here. Jesus does not work "of his own accord." He has submitted himself to the will of the Father. (this is what it means that he emptied himself - of his own will in Phil. 2). He is working in obedience to the Father's will, it's not that he is unable, but rather he is obedient to only do what the Father does. He has equal power with him. In that passage in John 5, he goes on to build a case that he is equal with the Father, not dependent upon him as some are saying. Louisa is spot on!
@Dean Agnor how did he see Nathaniel sitting under the tree when he was not there, how did he know what was in the hearts of the Pharisees and know what they were thinking? Scripture tells us he knew those things. It was his omniscience. I would argue that the miracles displayed his omnipotence as the Creator (I'm guessing you disagree). I will grant his omnipresence as a man was greatly limited. But we do see his omni's in many places in the Gospels.
@Dean Agnor Jesus didn't say he was equal with God? Are you saying John didn't really understand what Jesus was saying. He provides commentary himself in the verse just before the one you quoted above: "This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. (John 5:18)" Even the Pharisees understood Jesus was saying he was equal with God but you say he wasn't?
Dear Bill, then re-write your book if you mean something else. The truth is at stake here. Thanks.
He said he contacted the publisher about changing the wording to clarify what he was and was not saying, so it sounds like that is in process.
@Dean Agnor thats pretty rude - dont you think? I don't know anyone in here as I doubt any of us do either. I think thats a bit unnecessary to tell a complete stranger they are clueless basically!
@@deana.9883 wrong.....why even blurry the lines at all....why not at the start speak God's Word with clarity. There is a reason why they're doing this video, because it's not clear what he was teaching, what he wrote about, and there are many questions
The proper thing to do would be to stop selling a book that has a significant doctrinal error, even if due to a misunderstanding.
But it wasn’t - it was just worded in such a way that some took it a different way. They’ve changed it. Isn’t that enough? You can’t retract all the books ever published. They’ve acted with integrity.
@@Estherbeth I think he said in the video in future books/editions it will changed.
@@Estherbeth or was it worded in such a way that Bill could claim plausible deniability when challenged on the errors? Why not simply be clear about it in the first place?
Isn’t it important what the Bible says....the same power that raised Jesus from the grave.....and yes, Jesus identity was and is God....but He lived perfectly with the limitations of man.....
@@ProducerJames91 maybe you're not that familiar with the hyperstatic union concept. Yes, He lived as a man and perfectly kept the law as an example to humanity that sin is our failing, not God's. However, His identity as God was never removed and the authority of His name is the only thing that we operate by as Christians. Just like the 70 disciples in Luke 10
J. P. Moreland (professor of philosophy at Talbot school of theology), “I now believe that Jesus’ public ministry was done in his humanity, as a perfect man, doing in dependence on the filling of the Holy Spirit what he saw his Father doing.”
Gerald Hawthorne (professor of Greek for 42 years at Wheaton College), “Jesus is living proof of how those who are his followers may exceed the limitations of their humanness in order that they, like him, might carry to completion against all odds their God-given mission in life-by the Holy Spirit.”
Just some food for thought!
The Full gospel in its full reality just explained. He was God but walked under the full limitation of man and full awareness of the Holy Spirit. Bless you, for this quick message.
@@jimmyray5524 Heretic for choosing to walk in the full knowledge of the Holy Spirit ? "Let this mind be in you". "He didn't leave us orphans".
@@jimmyray5524
How he was fully God and fully man_....
1.Conceived by the Spirit and born by man.
2. Began his mission by the baptism of the Holy Spirit and tested at all points as a man.
3. He who knew no sin(God) became sin (man).
4. Who, being in the form of God, did not consider it [b]robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and
coming in the likeness of men. - Philippians 2:6-7.
The gospel is that Christ came to save sinners from damnation, not that he came to make you little gods.
@@toomanymarys7355Psalm 82:6 - “I said, ‘You are “gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.’
@@jeorgemarvel4086 Psalm 82:7 “Nevertheless you will die like men, And fall like one of the princes.”
1 Timothy 3:16
God was manifest in the flesh...
Rebranding going to cover up your past with lies
Wong, wrong ,wrong. Scholarship would teach that Jesus did not leave his divinity behind, he left his authority behind. The Father was his authority and he did was his Father told Him.
So many people are repeating it through…hope it gets straightened out not because I’m anyone, but for the sake of Christ.
BJ clearly states in more than one of his books that until Jesus was baptised He was just a man like us without the Holy Spirit. If he was ever without the Holy Spirit, you were saying that He was not God. Glad you've changed your mind Bill. Shame you couldn't admit that what you said was fundamentally adrift when the error was pointed out.
What about the grave sucking, water divining, or your son claiming that we are all born good? How will you explain those errors now? These things are not about love tank, but about introducing alien spirits and false teaching,
The passionate example of a heart that runs after Jesus and dares to believe, even in the face of opposition and false accusations. It is inspiring.
Some of these comments! If only you came in without your mind made up. This could really help you! You don't think you can do what Jesus said to do, so your ministry is reduced to attacking and mocking someone trying to help you with it! If you just listened, then stepped out in faith, you could have a real ministry to people who need healing and hope! Or, even if you're convinced he's wrong, wouldn't a real believer just ignore this and demonstrate how it's really done, rather than wasting time? Matt 23:13.
Steve one day when your eyes are opened to the truth you will see that only the disciples/Apostles were given power by Jesus to perform miracles. If you read from Romans through to Jude you will see that miracles slowly disappeared and healings slowly disappeared. Why because they were a sign for the Jews just like tongues were a sign for the Jews. What does Paul say when you pray in a tongue someone should interpret or you should ask for the interpretation or be Quiet. Why …….because tongues were languages not gibberish as Paul says. I would rather pray with my understanding what does that mean Steve study your word mate and find the truth. I was following people like Bethel. And I studied the word and discovered the truth. I hope you will as I did god bless
Not true. I've experienced signs and wonders. I've been given almost 30 miracles in my health as I'm on the helm of FULL healing. God has used my vessel for His Power, which He be glorified.
BUT, I still believe God's Word is authoritative and how I know who God is. It's also been the foundation of what I've experienced by God's Grace over the years.
Interesting series, could Bill be given time to finish his thoughts? Respectfully. So much interrupting.
Jesus' 'I do nothing...' statement wasn't a limitation of power but a limitation of action. It wasn't that he was unable to perform certain actions but rather that he limited his actions to those which he saw the Father doing. His purpose was to reveal the Father. He imitated the Father so that the invisible God was made visible. Bill's belief that Jesus had to perform miracles as a man in order for us to be able to do the same is misguided. We are able to perform miracles because of the authority we have 'in Christ'.
Matt 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go... ".
They were indeed a limitation of his power. To fully represent man, as the second Adam, Jesus emptied himself, completely transforming into a human with all its limitations and frailties. To subscribe to any other hybrid Christ, is indeed false and gnostic and a deviation from the biblical Christ.
False teachers and false church.
J. P. Moreland writes a book called, Body and Soul, in which he describes through a thought experiment how a being can experience extreme modification to it's inner and outer self, yet maintain it's own identity, which will not experience any change and never be lost. This is what happened to the divine Logos. He became a man and dwelt among us. This was a radical transformation, indeed.
So it seems that the fatal flaw in your theology is that Jesus was “modeling a lifestyle and setting a pattern for us.” This is very dangerous theology unless you believe we can bear the burden of sin, we can have knowledge of the thoughts of others, we can bring the dead to life, we can/should receive praise from our followers. Most theologians believe the kenosis is referring to Jesus emptying himself of his glory and privileges. I think this is why there is such an uproar about Bethel creating their own path rather than considering who Jesus is and what he gave up. It seems that the foundational flaw is the strong desire for us, humans, to be able to do what Jesus/God did/does. With that as a central belief you adhere to, of course you have to create a Jesus that fallen humans can replicate. It’s not too different than common proof texting where a teacher has a topic they want to preach on and they find a verse outside of context to make it work.
All that to say, your theology makes sense for your belief system but it certainly seems flawed and deceptive to many.
Had to watch to listen to his Christology. Came in with a open mind, don't have a issue. Deity of Christ, Trinity, etc. He could chose better words to explain Kenosis (which he cleaned up). Thanks for posting.
So will Bethel be retracting what Bill says in when Heaven invades earth?
SAID publisher contacted to clarify...
Exactly! I borrowed the book to read “ Jesus can do nothing.”
Never felt BJ questioned Jesus' Divinity. It's the neglect of the daily cross, presumption, gender roles (core foundation of divine order).
Thats the trouble with error, it is so close and yet so far. He is setting up his own doctrine that believers can be exactly like Jesus.
Origen, an early Church Father, to Celsus said 'And with respect to His having descended among men, He was “previously in the form of God;” and through benevolence, divested Himself (of His glory), that He might be capable of being received by men. '
@JordanJackson41 - He never lost His divinity. He set it aside to take on flesh. He could accept worship because He was still God the word.
@JordanJackson41 - That is frankly heretical.
Being Fully GOD and fully man yet HE is one CHRIST this is what all of us believe . But my humble opinion is that his emptying HIMSELF shows us HIS humility of choosing to become a human being , the Begotten WORD who was GOD became flesh , the very act of the incarnation is an emptying in GOD THE SON’s part, as you rightly pointed out that HE can never cease to be GOD if so we are lost ,but became man through a Virgin Birth because all things are possible with GOD . It is true that HE depended on the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT for everything, but in the Most HOLY TRINITY dependence on each other is an essence of loving unity , the FATHER depended on HIS SON to do HIS will on the cross and the SON depended on the SPIRIT to empower HIM , a coeternal cooperation similar to how the FATHER created the world through HIS WORD ( THE SON ) by HIS SPIRIT who hovered over the deep in the beginning.
With regard to the miracles whether JESUS did them as a human alone or as GOD alone should never be an object of conflict between HIS hypostatic union because HE said in John5:20 “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.” Which means that The SON is so intrinsically united to the FATHER that HE can do only what the FATHER does which actually magnifies CHRIST’s divinity because what the FATHER does the son also does and the works were meant to be a testimony to the fact that JESUS was the Son of GOD, because the mistake of the Pharisees was to point out that JESUS being a man could not forgive sins , and the question of JESUS that they couldn’t answer was from the prophecy of David ( THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD SIT AT MY RIGHT ) JESUS will ask them -“if David calls HIM LORD whose Son is he “? JESUS always made sure that people understand HIS divinity while HE was a human being ,but with regard to HIM commissioning us to do the very works that HE did and even greater works is so wonderful because now HE has left us the greatest treasure through which all things are possible for us by HIS HOLY SPIRIT which is HIS holy name ‘JESUS ‘, it is through HIS name we receive whatever we ask the FATHER because the FATHER is glorified when we ask HIM anything in the name of JESUS , when JESUS exorcised demons HE never used HIS own name but the demons came out by just a word of command , rather it was the demons who testified that JESUS was the son of GOD the only instance where they spoke the truth because they encountered truth HIMSELF. But when JESUS sent HIS disciples to do HIS work, HE sends them in HIS own name , the authority HE gives them actually is to carry HIS name which tells us about the nature of HIS mission
“ THE LORD SAVES “ YAH SHUA .
Luke 10:17 “ The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name."
Also St Peter in Acts 9:34 tells Aeneas “ Jesus Christ heals you. Get up and roll up your mat." This is just for us to understand that in imitating CHRIST’s miraculous works we need not undermine HIS divinity because the very works testify to HIS divinity , also there is the great danger of pride when miraculous signs start to follow a believer if HE thinks that JESUS set aside HIS divinity so that we can pursue HIS miraculous works ,rather than believing that JESUS CHRIST the SON OF GOD and SON OF MAN is the one who heals and delivers by using us HIS chosen instruments. JESUS said heal the sick , raise the dead and cleanse the lepers but it doesn’t mean that we can heal the sick or raise the dead by our own power , rather only by complete dependence on HIS name which is actually HIS character especially HIS faithfulness .At the end of the day what can a man profit if he can gain the entire world yet forfeit His soul. Because even if miracles begin to happen by the shadow of the believer , eg .St Peter , the world May brand him as a holy person but the same St Peter said it was not by his own holiness the miracles happened rather it was the faith that comes through JESUS who is fully GOD and fully MAN but one CHRIST.
It is a fact that I can do all things but it is only possible through CHRIST who strengthens me , apart from CHRIST I am nothing , our motivation is elevated even more when recognising CHRIST in us the hope of glory , just as the Father is in me ,I am in you and you are in me was the promise of JESUS and so our dependence on JESUS ‘s divinity and humanity makes the works more exciting and beautiful because our healer JESUS CHRIST can relate even to the physical pain of the sick person through HIS humanity and can also impart the gift of faith to the one praying and the one receiving by HIS divinity . He uses our erring lips to speak HIS word which is full of the HOLY SPIRIT and life which is even more humbling and beautiful for us who minister to the sick .Amen .
We don't have to believe anything like this about Jesus to think that we can perform miracles. If someone's not a cessationist, they tend to just think that we can have the gifts of the Holy Spirit as the apostles did in Acts.
Why not just preach the whole Gospel? So few people ACTUALLY teach the word without additions and philosophy. We have enough information in the word without the social engineering to muddy the water.
"All I was trying to do was reverse engineer and twist the scripture" pretty much what he means but didn't say it
Mmm, the original true apostles didn't have to rewrite their ideas because they weren't communicating what they meant....
They also walked with Jesus on earth, it’s not quite the same. :)
@@myclassmate7588 , the true OT prophets didn't walk with Jesus on earth, and their message remains.. similar with Paul. God's inspired word doesn't need human adjustments.
@@susanelisd5584 crystal clear? Yes hindsight is 20/20, but why do you think the prophets were martyred? Because people didn’t understand, it wasn’t crystal clear for the vast majority of people in that time.
@@myclassmate7588 I think if you read the prophets, their message is clear, to turn away from their sins and idolatry. Their problem was wilful disobedience to the Word of God, and so they murdered those who proclaimed what they did not want to hear.
I think everyone that attends bethel believes bethel teaches to turn away from sin and idolatry.
I am in no way a Bethel “yes man“. When I disagree with something I will be open about it. Having said that I cannot speak highly enough about how Bill has handled this situation. In addition, I am just surprised that that someone can struggle with the concept of the Kenosis. Jesus grew in wisdom and stature. He was not omnipresent. He was, indeed, dependent on the father. Theologically bill is spot on on this subject.
That's only because you haven't had good teaching and don't know what all Christians have agreed about for 2000 years. You might as well endorse a JW or Mormon. He is teaching that Jesus Christ was restrained from ever using his own power while on earth because his purpose was to show people how they can work miracles with the help of the Holy Spirit when he is gone. First, that is blasphemy. Second, that's not the gospel.
@@toomanymarys7355 You are assuming that I haven’t had teaching on the matter. Indeed I have. Not only that but I have researched it on my own and taught on the matter as a Bible teacher and academic director at 2 Bible schools. I will point out that in all your dogmatic statements you failed to supply your points with one Bible verse. The is a simple matter that it is 1. The Orthodox positioned of Church history and 2. It is easily seen in s scripture. A. Jesus could do nothing on his own Jn. 5:19 “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself. He does only what he sees the Father doing. Whatever the Father does, the Son also does.” B. The doctrine of the Kenosis has been taught through out church history and rightly so as it is clearly a Biblical truth. Phil 2:7. Historically the conflict has been that there have been heretical groups that have affirmed the idea. However that’s simply the logical fallacy of guilt by association. It doesn’t matter ‘WHO’ believes something. It matters what the Bible teaches. The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus did not possess certain ‘Omni’ attributes. Jesus, while being Devine, was not omnipresent Jn. 11:15. He was also not omniscient Lk. 2:52 and Mark 13:32. This is part of His Kenosis and yes, it is part of the Gospel. It’s there. Read it for yourself. One more thing. Did He empty Himself “for the purpose” of showing us that we can do the same thing? I wouldn’t say that. It certainly doesn’t ever state that in the Bible. However I think it is, indeed, important to recognize that He could do nothing on His own.
@@toomanymarys7355 “It may be that some of Jesus’ miracles flowed from his divine nature, yet there is a consensus among New Testament scholars that most, if not all, were expressions of his humanness.” -J. P. Moreland (professor at Talbot school of theology)
Bill Johnson is not alone in his view that while being fully man and fully God (as he explicitly stated), Jesus did the works he did dependent on the Spirit. Other theologians that would agree include Thomas Oden and Gerald Hawthorne, to name a few.
Bill Johnson is steeped in new age and does not know the Lord and Bethel is the same. They do not know The Lord.
Everyone criticizing this video so relentlessly is such a good example of a modern day Pharisee.
@@thomasmilavec3754 what are they falsely teaching?
Basic prosperity gosple among other things. BJ himself saying he doesn't accept a doctrine that allows sickness.
Isaiah 45:7 I form light and create darkness, I make well being and create calamity. I am the Lord who does all these things
On the surface a lot of bethel teachings sound good. But through careful study of scripture you'll find many things are twisted. We think that false teachers will be obvious. But Jesus doesn't tell us to be careful and watch because it'll be obvious, but because they come as sheep, but inwardly are wolves.
@My classmate I disagree. We are told in scripture to be Berean, to compare teaching with scripture, to judge teachings, prophesies etc. I find the dialogue about these things to be helpful. Bethel and Bill have intentionally placed themselves on an international platform with tremendous influence in the Church. We need to wrestle through these things.
If He really emptied Himself of His divinity, Him telling men "your sins are forgiven" while being in the form of man wouldn't make any sense. Only God has that power, to forgive sin. Also what does he do with Colossians 2:9? Bill Johnson definitely seems to fit the description of Colossians 2:8. This is a terrible view of Philippians 2:5-7
“If you love someone you won’t define them by their flaws.”
I'm happy to have seen this video. Yesterday I watched someone quoting pastor Bill on the miracle Christ performed as a man, not as God, and then concluding that Pastor Bill doesn't believe in the deity of Christ, which I commented as being nothing but heretical belief (I should delete that comment by the way 🤔). But with this video, I see the context, and it comforts me in my position about not paying that much attention on what "social theologian warriors" are saying online...😅 Now I don't necessarily disagree with what pastor Bill says (by the way, who am I? I must pay him respect because of the yoke of the Lord on his life. I'm not even sure I have studied as much as he did). However, with the little that i have received through trainings and studies, I see that there are things that "seem" to be lacking. But hey, for me, the majors of our faith are there, and I'm glad. I'm mostly glad because, even beyond the majors of theology being present, I can discern a heart that is influenced by God's Love, and that is willing help people to the best of what he has received. I salute and honor that.
The Church will be 2000 years on Earth soon, but hey, we are still growing. And this I know: THE PERFECT PLAN OF GOD IS ALWAYS ADVANCING, AND IT PERFECTLY INTEGRATES OUR IMPERFECTIONS. I'm happy and optimistic! Things are getting better, in Christ! Amen!
There is a playlist on this channel called Rediscovering Bethel where Bill Johnson responds to many of the questions or concerns people have had. You might find it helpful.
When we witness someone getting healed we did not perform the miracle, we witnessed God perform a miracle. We don’t need to believe that Jesus was acting as human in order to say that we are also able to witness God performing miracles. Is Bill Johnson saying that Jesus needs to be human in order to demonstrate that we can be spectators to God’s power or is he saying that we can perform miracles?
The kings of America Kundalini, the stench of hell is strong in these two.
If you watch the American Gospel: Christ Crucified dvd, it explains this really well!
Could you elborate how? I have yet to watch it.
Johnson does make an error in saying Jesus laid his divinity aside. That is not correct because he was divine in his identity as the 2nd Person of the Trinity. He did lay aside his own divine attributes. He admits poor choice of words.
Nope. "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily"
1 Timothy 2: 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: Sorry guys but Ya'll missed the mark. Yeshua Ha Mashiach was the Messiah not ELOHIM.
Just because you have a statement of faith doesnt make your teaching correct.
Smacks of damage limitation. Soft interview by one of their own. …not quite Frost v Nixon is it? Haha ….sigh 🙄
Great explanation. I loved that book! It was the first time that scripture made sense about Jesus emptying Himself ( choosing to live as a man) though Fully God and fully man. He did miracles and taught others the same. I love the bible, including the mysteries I don't fully comprehend. Thank you for everything you do!
except he didn't empty himself of his deity.
@New Eyes To See Yet you are here participating in this video series.
@@jonathanchaney5896 He admitted his poor choice of words.
@@Mike65809 it is not only poor choice of words, it more it is a false teaching no matter how you try to make appear to be true. A wolf in sheep clothing is still a wolf.
@@paulcorathers1336 No can't agree. Do your own study on the nature of Christ, especially from the Gospel of John. Don't let previous proclamations influence, like that from Chalcedon. You may be surprised what you find.
In what way was Jesus still God while existing as a man? Jesus was tempted, but God can't be tempted. Right? Explain that you who think Johnson is wrong.
Simple if you don't read what you want to into the text. That is called eisegesis. Eisegesis is the process of interpreting the text in such a way as to introduce one's presuppositions, agendas, or biases. This is precisely what you and Bill here are doing, brother.
How does what you're saying make sense?
Deut 6:16
"You shall not tempt the LORD your God as you tempted Him in Massah.
Matthew 4:7
Jesus said to him, "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the LORD your God.'"
This isn't a contradiction it's a misunderstanding of the text.
@@BrandonGarcia-uk3si Well, was Jesus tempted or not?
@@Mike65809 That's weird Mike. If God can't be tempted as you say the text reads. Why were the Israelites warned not to tempt Him?
Deut 6:16
"You shall not tempt the LORD your God as you tempted Him in Massah.
In all points he was tempted but without sin...that's the difference
@@BrandonGarcia-uk3si Yes, they tested him - tested his patience. But the scripture says God cannot be tempted with evil. See James 1:13. Yet Scripture does say Jesus was tempted in all ways like us, yet without sin. See Hebrews 4:15.
THANK YOU...MAN so grieved to See SO CALLED Christians do videos Bashing you...NOT Addressing matter with You!!!😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😔😔 So appreciate clarification
Their statements of faith say one thing but BJ preaches/writes something else. BJ is experienced and knowledgeable enough of scripture to know how to talk about the hydrostatic union without going anywhere near heretical statements. Either BJ is super careless, or he actually believes some really dodgy theology.
A little of both. Careless speech and sketchy theology.
Can you tell us your beliefs about the end times, the rapture, and dominion theology.
Look up on UA-cam Reverend Joseph Morris signs of the times, his ministry will speak to your question
@@ryancrandall1438 I don’t want to know another mans views I want to know Bethels views. But thank you for the suggestion.
@@Holyrighteousandfree basically they don't know when the Lord is coming back, they don't have the revelation of His Return that Rev Joe Morris has, check that message out, you'll be happy!
@@ryancrandall1438 what is a reverend?
@@Holyrighteousandfree reverend- a person with a title who addresses a church
A little ooze with pride, then quickly back to a humble presentation (or am I misreading the tone/words/body language?)
Did Jesus learn of his untapped miraculous power in his childhood? You may notice that Jesus' own brothers and family did not believe in him. If he did miracles as a child, wouldn't they have believed in him? But he did no miracle until baptized by the HS. Now of course, all will admit that as Logos, he created the universe. But he left those divine attributes behind.
I can't find the command to those who would believe after the Apostles to do miracles, the epistles reinforce that if they won't believe the law and prophets they won't believe a sign such as resurrection. In lystra Paul performed a great sign and yet they didn't believe in Christ, but rather continued in their idolatry seeing their myths to be "confirmed".
What these videos have convinced me of is that Bethel is just tremendously bad at interpreting scripture and communicating what they mean clearly. I don't doubt their sincerity, I just think they're confused about a few things.
It’s called pride has anyone seen the video of them using the staff from Lord of the rings come on people wake up
Maybe you can ask him why his new apostolic Reformation friends ordained Todd Bentley
Excellent Questions and Right Answers
JESUS fully GOD fully Human , the Son of GOD YAWEH , born of the HOLY SPIRIT in a chosen DIVINE womb .
Blessed is the man whose salvation is in the name of our Lord JESUS our GOD
Amen
You weren't listening closely enough. Bethel teaches that Jesus locks up all his powers and doesn't use them so that he is an example of all the miracles we will work if we walk in faith. That's a different gospel.
@@toomanymarys7355 :
If you really believe what he spoke is not soothing your ears then may be you need pray once again and listen it with open heart and not judgemental heart
Because many protestants have birthed in many forms one was against Catholic CHURCH then came the protestants and then now inside born again there is real group of Holy spirit and the opposite is evil spirit in the name of JESUS .
Even if one man who by the help of Holy spirit builds a temple of God a opposite who is a born again without knowing he is possessed by an evil spirit ATTACKS the same born again temple where he is baptized and brought into salvation
At the end either catholic or protestant or born again or Anglican or even you and me as temple of God as we believe we fall short of Salvation it is this reason we need JESUS
The only best way is to not judge the others unless you are really driven by GOD THE FATHER OR THE WORD OF GOD , IF YOU ARE DRIVEN BY THE HOLY SPIRIT JESUS THEN LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS YOUR SELF
💐
@@iamdavidjehovahsolomonroth6890 Lol, that made no sense. Typical response "blah, blah, blah, dont judge, blah, blah, blah"
Hello! Praise JAH! Psalm 68:4 KJV and his name alone is the most high Psalm 83:18 KJV
Let’s get one thing straight. Whilst the Messiah is authentic God and authentic man or true God and true man to say that ‘Jesus is fully God and fully man’ or ‘Jesus is 100% God and 100% man’ is just moronic in the extreme?! Absolutely nothing, by means of a single nature, can exist as both fully God and fully man?! The Messiah, as God Incarnate, simultaneously exists as Infinite Divine Creator, YHWH (Isa.43:11) and finite human creature, Jesus of Nazareth (Jn.14:28; 1Tim.2:5) only by means of the hypo-static union (two distinct but not separate natures). The Son as Divine is NOT Jesus of Nazareth. The Son as human is NOT YHWH but the Son is BOTH Divine Creator AND human creature. Simonline 😀👍🙏
Bless you Bill, im grieved by how much fire youre getting from professing christians. I appreciate your heart to not be offended by them, but rather cry for them, and pray for them to come to a full understanding of the heart of God in all this. And the importance of the unity of the church, despite difference in belief.
As long as our foundation in Christ is unchanged. Repentence from dead works, denying ourselves, follow Him and not loving our lives until death. The church today need to come to the realization of what unity is, and what loving one another really means. Love you guys ❤
So just to be sure bill Johnson and bethel believes Jesus Christ was both God and man.
"Being disliked isn't that bad" Great statement, I like it. Especially if it's for such a great cause.
Bill Johnson is misunderstood because his theology and handling of the Bible is shallow. He is not precise in his words and careless (particularly if writing this in a book). I want him to explain the Gospel in such a way that encourages Christians to evangelize. I haven’t heard ONE sermon of his that makes Jesus real.
I'm someone who naturally tends to align more with the Reformed and Calvinistic schools of thought, but I have to say, when I first heard the quote about Jesus "laying his divinity aside," I immediately took it as saying Jesus simply left his divine position when he came to Earth in a physical body and fulfilled His ministry (I mean, He did, didn't He? He wasn't in Heaven when He was on Earth preaching the Kingdom?).
That's how I still read it, and since I've never heard Bill deny Jesus as The Christ, the Son of God, or God Himself, I have no reason to assume it means that Jesus stopped being God or divine.
But Johnson says Jesus did his works as a man empowered by the Spirit, not as deity. He says this so that we can have an example to follow and we can do his works in the Spirit as well. I too am reformed/Calvinistic, and thats no reformed teaching I know.
@@jonathanchaney5896 To be clear, I naturally lean reformed/calvinistic, but I don't consider myself in that camp. He says Jesus did those works as a man empowered by the Spirit because Jesus WAS a man empowered by the Spirit, and God at the same time. He's not denying Jesus's divinity when he says Jesus did things as a man while being empowered by the Spirit. You're right that he makes that point so that we have an example to follow and can do Jesus's works in the Spirit as well, and I agree with him. I believe that we are to follow Jesus's example and do the same works in the Spirit, even greater, through faith in Him.
Now you see why I don't consider myself reformed/calvinistic.
@@unnecessaryedits2818 so he was empowered by the Spirit AND God? That’s not what Johnson says. He was a man obedient to God, sinless and empowered by the Spirit. Somehow still divine but only working as a man. That denies the entire nature of God in the Person of Jesus. Big problem there. That’s as if The Sin within the Trinity can be less than God. The essence and nature of the divine within the Trinity is equal. God cannot be divided or separated.
I think I already pointed out that he’s not denying Jesus was God while in physical form, only emphasizing His humanity and Spirit embodiment to encourage believers that we can follow His example.
Bill never states that Jesus wasn’t God. Never. And he’s not denying that Jesus was divine while also living as a man. Jesus was God and man at the same time, right?
If Bill had a history is saying things that implied Jesus wasn’t God or divine while He was on the earth physically, then I would say you’re statements might be more likely. But he hasn’t, at least I’ve never heard it before. He preaches that Jesus is God, the Son of God, the Christ, all those things we agree upon. If you’ve heard him say otherwise anywhere, please tell me.
I think a good way to test his words to test Bills meaning is to ask yourself “Why?” Why would be constantly preach the divinity and Godhood of Jesus consistently, only to try and say that Jesus wasn’t Divine in a single line in a book? What would be the purpose?
To be frank, and I apologize if I’m wrong, but you really seem to be reaching to find something wrong in what he’s saying in this clip. Can you really not believe that Bill wasn’t denying Jesus’s divinity when he was focusing on His humanity? Do people have to say out loud that Jesus is God/divine every time they talk about Jesus? Is Jesus’s humanity not important?
Its not about what we think or believe, its about the truth of Gods word. What did Paul the apostle to us Gentiles say? He said there is to us but ONE GOD...THE FATHER...read your bibles
Bill doesn’t even doesn’t even do what Jesus did, but burdens Believers to think we should… and that it’s normal.
Yep. He's sitting there in his glasses pretending that real Christians abolish sickness.
Great video :) Shouldn't the title say "IS Jesus..." instead of "Was Jesus... "?
How can any man do greater miracles than God?
Hmmm … My interpretation is I think JESUS can switch on and off between His two natures. Can’t He do that? Why not? HE is fully man and fully God. He has two natures. I don’t believe that when Hie is demonstrating His humanity His divinity is no longer there. Is HE restricting His divinity? In my opinion, I don’t think so. He doesn’t have to. He just has the ability to switch between His two natures. Is this a ridiculous notion? It should be! Otherwise JESUS will just be like an ordinary man. I don’t believe we, the created beings, will every have the capacity to explain in human level our CREATOR, JESUS. That is also a ridiculous thing to believe, that we will ever have! Give our CREATOR the due honour and respect He solely deserves. That is, we, the created beings, will never be able to explain HIM in all that He is, as if we are the ones who created Him 🙏🙏🙏
Why did Jesus say his Father is greater than he? The fact is the divine Logos took on human flesh and only did miracles by the Father working in him by the Holy Spirit. He did not use his own attributes of deity.
No scripture says that. You're twisting something out of context because you aren't a Christian but rather a Gnostic.
@@toomanymarys7355 Read the Gospel of John. See John 14:28. Also do know Jesus did all of his works by the Father dwelling in him. That would mean he was not doing them by his own miraculous attributes. The current Chalcedon understanding is Nestorian.
Which tribe are you from Bill.
This is so amazing. I know what Bill Johnson means but many people don’t understanding it. I’ve been praying for bethel and God is changing the things I’ve been praying for. I love the book WHIE but there was that one thing that I thought could’ve been written differently so people don’t misunderstand it and He is talking about changing the language in that. I Love bethel and God has used Bill Johnson’s teachings in my life that have edify me greatly
People don't misunderstand. These are very, very old heresies. He is perfectly clear that he believes them.
I love this - God is awesome & indescribable! 💛
But reading some of the comments & hate here is heartbreaking! 😢
Such a massive sign of the severe lack of spiritual maturity & grace from those who claim the name of Christ. ✝️
Holy Spirit, we so need you to transform our hearts & minds, & to help us love each other the way you commanded us to! 🔥🌏
Do you think the Spirit is ok with false teaching, especially regarding the person of Christ?
John 10:1: “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber." You are listening to a robber.
Glory! Good post! Bless you!
Father, Son, Holy Spirit, all reading this, receive it, more, more in 2024!
The way you continually "apologies" is shocking to say the least, by laughing and making it idle chat of all your mistakes is certainly not humbling or repenting before God. I do agree that we have to serve the love of God and be forgiving and admonish from the point of God's love. But please guys, you have to relook your ways and teaching and wherever mistaken, bow your hearts before Jesus and be careful of pride. Be careful of NAR and WOF theologies and teaching and be true followers of Jesus Christ?
May the Lord God Almighty continue to bless you ,Bill Johnson, your family and Bethel Church, in Jesus, Matchless, Glorious and Holy Name!!
Amen!!🙏💖🙌
I love Dan and Bill communicating together! Great ideas, articulated clearly. Thanks for putting out these messages.
1corn15:45 in any Bible will say their is a First and Last Adam. Correct. Does Bethel Believe Adam is Jesus? like Paul does. 888
Paul doesn't believe Adam is Jesus. He's saying that Jesus paralleled Adam in the ways that he described in that passage. You could also think of it in terms of typology, but I'm pretty sure that neither Paul nor Bethel believes that Adam is Jesus. They just believe that Jesus got it right where Adam got it wrong, and Jesus' victory over sin allows righteousness to propagate through all of humanity who receives Him as Lord.
That’s too bad.
@@adamlarsen2348 - what is it that you attach to that belief, which causes you to say it's too bad if someone else doesn't believe it?
No worries. I just think you believe in a different Jesus. Gods Son Adam was First Man in the Garden. In the End their is A second Adam who fulfilled the Law. Ask Siri “who is the last adam” She will say Adam is Jesus. Correct?
@@adamlarsen2348 - the last Adam and the first Adam are not the same person. The Bible is clear that Adam (a.k.a. the first Adam) was created and Jesus was not. They are not the same person. Jesus is fundamentally different from the first Adam. If the Jesus you believe in is a created being, then I definitely believe in a different Jesus from you. The Jesus I believe in is the one through whom all things were created (see John 1:3).
Any body can read the creed and say that's our statement of faith, so did the Jews who persecuted the true prophets, but to then say jesus had to be born again, or he was limited as a man. When Jesus always did the will of his father, so then the excuse is well i need to change the language a bit, why not admit he got it wrong in plain words.
Hello! Jesus is the son of God, like scriptures tells us.
wow🤨... smooth talking that will deceive the naive.
Because Jesus lived in a human body and suffered what we suffer that means we can do the same things Jesus did? Think about it, we may have the Holy Spirit within us which sanctitfies us in the eyes of God, but it does not make us the Son of God equal to Jesus. He did certain things to fulfill the prophecies of the O.T. in order that his Messianic place would be revealed. That does not mean that we can all do what He did. There is a lot of falshood and deception in Bethels teaching. Twisting the scripture is what cults do.
Johnson was right. If Jesus did miracles that were not from the Father, he would have glorified himself, which he could not do. He had to be a perfect human. It was the Father who glorified him because he did the works of the Father. "He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him" (John 7:18). "Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God" (John 8:54). The miracles his did were not his own, but the Father working in and through him. Also, "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works" (John 14:10). Where Johnson gets it wrong is saying Jesus laid his divinity aside. That is incorrect because he was still the LOGOS in his identity. This is key. But he admits poor choice of words.
John 14:11 - “Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.” - John 14:11
If Jesus is just a man, then how can he be in the Father? There’s a trinitarian relationship and union between them. It’s not just that the Father was in Jesus but the Son was in the Father as well. How can that be if he had no power outside of the Spirit?
@@jonathanchaney5896 The Father was in him doing his works by the HS. I'm not sure what he meant to say he was in the Father, but we are in the Son at this time, also. We are in Christ. If we are in the Son, we are in the Father also. If you study the Gospels you will see the HS is the Spirit of the Father, and the Son.
@@Mike65809 You don't know what he means by him saying that he is in the Father because you reject the Bible and the Christian faith for the lie of Satan: ye shall be as gods.
The theology that says that Jesus came to show you how to operate in the supernatural and bring heaven to earth is pure Satanism. There is a reason that revelation called the churches sojourners on earth. It is not our job to bring heaven to earth but to work the harvest for heaven, which Christ will bring down. The gospel is not having superpowers but that we are sinners saved from our sins.
@@toomanymarys7355 I don't defend all that Bethel says. I don't even know all that they teach. I am just agreeing with Johnson that Jesus left behind his miraculous attributes when he became flesh. This is why he was anointed by the Holy Spirit. In fact, "Christ" means anointed one. The miracles he did was by the Father working in him by the HS. Yet he kept his identity as the divine Logos. Hope that helps.
I dont hear you speaking about the lost tribes.
I clicked the link because I thought it says “Ketosis”. Love Bethel!
Liars
You say nothing about the need for the Son of God and the Son of Man to be such for the redemption of sinners at the cross. You totally missed why Jesus came. He came not to be your example, but to be an atoning sacrifice. May I never boast except in the cross of Christ. I determined to know nothing among you except Christ crucified. Try preaching the cross alone for one year and not "faith and the supernatural."
We would invite you to explore more sermons to grasp the honour and deep reverence we have for the Cross and the pressing need for each person to surrender their lives to Him.
@@Bethel_Online "honor and deep reverence for the cross." What does that even mean? The cross is your only hope of forgiveness and reconciliation to God. I have listened to a lot of sermons. I can't remember hearing one on the cross. Send me a link.
The eerie laugh of a man who uses God’s Word for financial gain just gives me such an uncomfortable feeling. Bill Johnson is a false teacher. No matter how much he dances around his words he’s a new age charlatan. It’s not just in his Kenosis theory.
These teachings are great, thank you all at the Bethel Church team!
You enjoy heretical teachings? Wow
@@SquishyyyBeaner Then why are you here? The pharisees didn't understand Who Jesus was either. They were too busy straining out gnats and swallowing camels.
@@louisaisthankful6455 they are not Jesus. This is the great deception please I understand that
@@louisaisthankful6455 hahaha yeah that’s what you guys say. Always calling everyone a Pharisee.
These teachings they have are heretical. Read your Bible. When’s the last time you did that?
@@louisaisthankful6455 we are here because we want to know is Bill Johnson is actually correcting his wrong teachings. He's not sadly :( basically saying oh people just don't fully understand what I'm saying. Oh we understand and what he teaches is not from God. It's not in the Bible.
You should listen to something Bill teaches and see if you can. Read a few paragraphs of the Bible and see if it says what Bill says. It never does sorry. Bill picks a verse here and there then explains what it means.
No one would ever pick a sentence from a book then explain what the story is....no anyone else would simply read the story.
I don't understand y people don't get what Bill is trying to get at in the book. He has to write and then explain what he wrote. Such a ignorant generation
I think we get and recognize it for the false doctrine it is. That’s exactly why they are attempting to clarify but only prove it is what they believe.
Anyone else extremely disturbed by how much laughter there is in these videos? These accusations are extremely serious and none of the laughter seems appropriate
I’ve watch a few of these , what he says here is so different to what he preaches ,
He needs to stop preaching and practice saying,” but lord lord “
Christ's ontology is part of the plurality of what it means to be God. His kenosis only brought His conscious awareness in parity with with what is means to be man. God condescending to live in the limits of what it means to be a man. That cannot be shared with any other created consciousness. His ontology is categorically above that which is from below.
Even during Christ's presentation to Israel by John the Baptist that distinction was revealed.
John 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
ὅτι πρῶτός μου ἦν·
John 1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
ὅτι πρῶτός μου ἦν·
Not created before me, or a created being at all. ". . . and the Word was God." καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος. That is a categorical distinction of what it means to be God, and no man can share that category. It is simply no within the realm of the possible, even for God.
Well he's said it multiple times lol. To have to go and try to adjust it multiple times, after every time he says it is chaos. Yikes.
“Fully God and fully man” contradicts Phil 2. The Logos WAS fully God but Jesus emptied himself and became a man. An emptied God cannot be “fully God”! What did he empty himself of? I propose omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience. The infant Jesus was likely not omnipotent. The child Jesus was not omniscient as he “grew in wisdom” which God cannot do. I submit neither was Jesus omnipresent
When the Spirit came and rested on Jesus he took on the attributes of God in subservient (limited) form, or became a servant as Phil 2 states. He was omnipotent in the Spirit. He was omniscient in the Spirit. He was omnipresent in Spirit. However, he can do nothing of himself, only what the father tells him or shows him via the Spirit. It is the Father’s will and Jesus obedience to it. He could do nothing of himself. Even the 12 legions of angels he can call upon cited is via an appeal to the Father, not of himself. Jesus is not “choosing not to use his divine attributes” as he has emptied himself of them!
“True God and true man” works better but we should really stop making up our own creeds and quoting them but rather just quote the verses directly which are pure, holy and without blemish.
The problem with that thinking is that Jesus was tempted to turn stones into bread. You're not tempted to do something that you can't do. Jesus had the ability to do those things as the Son of God, but he didn't do it because it wasn't part of the plan for him to function as a man.
@@JewandGreek this of course points to another way in which Jesus "emptied himself" of his divine attributes. God cannot be tempted in any way (James 1:13) yet Jesus was tempted in every way (Hebrews 4:15). The Word made flesh was infinitely weak compared to God who is infinitely strong. No, Jesus did not bow to any temptation and thus did not sin.
Or perhaps Son of God, Son of Man.
@@alexandermeyer-mendiola2068 exactly! If someone wants to throw out creeds, that's a red flag unto itself. However, if one only wants to look at Scripture, John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit even before he was born (Luke 1:15), but yet Jesus wasn't?
@@alexandermeyer-mendiola2068 starts with when it was said that Jesus was not fully God.
I believe doing greater things is because the Holy Spirit was coming. Jesus knew this❤️
As in volume and reach, I’ll grant you that. But not greater in power. No one can exceed themselves dying and raising from the dead. Not to mention all the works he did. John says all the books in the world cannot contain all Jesus did.
Johnson talks in riddles and word salad not even he himself could understand his ramblings it’s just a massive exercise in damage limitations I’m sorry the damage has already been done you can’t put the blue genie back in its bottle
Love these series! Thanks for the clarity!
yes indeed it is more clear to me they are liars and deceivers preaching another gospel
Clarity what clarity this is as clear as mud word salad and ramblings damage limitations BJ and Beth are an apostate church simple as that
@@chrisburton8079 comment with grace my friend
@@bryanwang9095 We are called to call out error it is not without grace that I make these comments it is with righteous anger that people are misled by such churches as Bethel Hillsong et cetera my friend blessings to you
Deut 18:18 kjv
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
John 12:49-50 kjv
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Acts 3:22 kjv
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Acts 2:22 kjv
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know
Matthew 3:16 kjv
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him
1 John 5:7 kjv
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
My friends, Messiah is not God nor a god.....there is only one God Isaiah 45:5 kjv and that one God sent his Son Messiah as the New Covenant which gives us Grace! btw, we are all children of the Father, at least us that have the Spirit, we are.
I pray your eyes open to the truth!
Better revelation here....thank you sooo much !!