The sinking of the Laconia part1
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- Опубліковано 6 чер 2016
- The Sinking of the Laconia Part 1 BBC Movie
The Laconia incident refers to the controversial events surrounding the sinking and subsequent aborted rescue attempt of a British troopship in the Atlantic Ocean during World War II. On 12 September 1942, RMS Laconia under the command of Capt. Rudolph Sharp and carrying some 2,732 crew, passengers, soldiers and POWs, was torpedoed and sunk by German U-boat U-156 off the coast of West Africa. Operating partly under the dictates of the old prize rules, the U-boat commander, Korvettenkapitän Werner Hartenstein, immediately commenced rescue operations, broadcasting their humanitarian intent on open radio channels to all Allied forces in the area, and were joined by the crews of other U-boats in the vicinity. Heading on the surface to a rendezvous with Vichy French ships under Red Cross banners, with their foredeck laden with survivors, U-156 was deliberately attacked by a USAAF B-24 Liberator bomber. The bomber, which had confirmed and reported the U-boat's intentions and the presence of survivors to higher command, was explicitly ordered to attack the ship anyway. The B-24 ended up killing dozens of the Laconia's survivors with bombs and strafing attacks, forcing U-156 to cast their remaining passengers into the sea and crash dive to avoid being destroyed. The pilots of the B-24 inexplicably reported that they had sunk U-156, and were awarded medals for bravery.
The event seriously chilled the general attitude of Germany's naval personnel towards rescuing stranded Allied seamen, and the commanders of the Kriegsmarine (German navy) were shortly issued the "Laconia Order" by Grand Admiral Karl Dönitz which specifically forbade any such attempt, thus helping to usher in unrestricted submarine warfare for the Kriegsmarine. Neither the US pilots nor their commander were ever punished or even investigated, and the matter was quietly forgotten by the US military until the Nuremberg Trials, when a prosecutorial attempt to cite the Laconia Order as proof of war crimes by Dönitz and his submariners badly backfired and embarrassed the US when the full story of the incident emerged. - Фільми й анімація
My Kick Arse warrior Grandad was in the merchant Navy and lucky survivor of the Laconia! Miss him so much bless him ♥️
This movie is history for me my grandfather' served aboard this ship when it was sunk my grandfather survived two more sinking he was one fortunate sailor
My mother was nurse spending two days in a life boat
This U Boat sunk with all hands. Was your grandfather assigned and then left early prior to its sinking
Same here. My second cousin, three times removed served aboard the Laconia too. He was a RN Stoker 1st Class and sadly didn't make it. His military death record states he died of exposure (and possibly his injuries due to the shark bites, as one in particular had anti coagulant in it's salivia) on lifeboat 2. Whether he was towed by U-156 is unknown as I haven't seen the full record. His name was Cyril Isaac Pryor.
What was here name@k9nick
Admiral Nimitz actually testified in Dönitz's defense at Nuremberg and stated that the US Navy also forbade its submarines to stop and help survivors.
i wonder if he specified "it was because we dilibertly bombed them during a rescue operation and killed over a thousand of our own people?"
Its more like the US Navy didnt forbid them to run over and gun down enemy sailors in the water.
indeed he did,he testified that US subs conducted unrestricted sub warfare in the pacific from day one.the decision to trial donitz back fired badly,of course no action was taken against the US crews or commander whom ordered the attack and it was quickly forgotten.
@@simonaquilina3162 That's what happens when the victors write history. The only atrocities that happened during the war according to the Allies were committed by Japan and Germany, and we all know that's not true at all.
@@simonaquilina3162 of course no action would be taken, unrestricted sub warfare was the norm, the British did it too but stayed in a cowardly silence at Doenitz’ trial, although they did back Adm Nimitz and fought for a reduced sentence for Doenitz
I've seen many WWII films but this is my first viewing of this particular film. Thank you Bretton Ferguson for uploading this.
I love watching Brian Cox in just about everything he does. He has a way of delivering a line that is unique.
Thank you for this rare film
My first time ever hearing about the sinking of the Laconia. So I had to search UA-cam for a video.
Sometimes the enemy is war itself.
Ed McDowell --It is always the enemy
Fact 10000%
When he sent the message about the survivors of the Laconia, willing to help get them to safety, and not attacking anyone wishing to help, the Allies - as far as I am aware - dismissed everything in the message - except the U-boat's location. Everything else was, at least for a while I think, ignored. They only saw the u-boat. Another target to sink. Again, not 100% sure how accurate my words are here, but this was often the mindset of the Allies towards Germany. I mean, they bombed hte hell out of France and BeNeLux while it was under German occupation. If there was the potential of civilian dying, it was more or less ignored as well. They only saw the enemy and enemy targets. Anything or anyone else was just 'in the way'. A very convenient mindset to drive out the enemy.
It proves that the Allies were just as horrible as the Nazis were, at least in terms of how to fight the war itself. But the Allies won, so even if they had done their own massive holocaust against Germany, it wouldn't be seen as one - because the Allies WON. The victors are always absolved of all war crimes...
Yes. Targeting civilians was policy. Then there was non approved war crimes. Like American soldiers raped around 50,000 French women during and after the liberation.
All sides do bad things during wars, but the propaganda is always the other side is 100% evil and we are 100% perfect and good.
WOAHHHH….I think you might have just gotten a little over emotional after the movie….that’s understandable, but what you just said there is just so wrong. As a whole I agree with most of it, with the obvious exception being when you start using “Nazi” and “Kreigsmarine” interchangeably. There were atrocities committed by both sides that violated the ethical standards of war as the world understood them, there is no doubt. As far as the Allies go, Russia was by far the worst and I invite you to do some reading and see why. With the UK and the USA there were a few bad eggs in an otherwise very, very good bunch. The Nazi’s committed genocide on an industrial scale. They killed 6+ MILLION civilians of their own nation not trying to drive out foreign invaders but simply because they didn’t like their religion. There were many good men in the German military during WW2, and quite a few great men….but those who willingly joined the Nazi party were not either of those, they were monsters. They knew what Hitler was up to and supported it. The whole invading other countries and even a plan for world domination are one thing. Sure, it’s wrong and very greedy but that’s not where most (educated) people take issue with Hitler and the Nazi’s. Taking all the land you can to better your own nation for the good of all its’ people is a cause I think most of us can wrap our heads around. The issue comes up when the biggest goal of expanding your country’s borders is to expand a way to kill off 1/4 or more of your own population, force women into birthing only aryan children and try to genetically engineer the entire planet to fit your perverted idea of a utopian society. That’s why the Allies were better than the Nazi’s when talking on a grand scale.
@@J.R.in_WV Oskar Schindler was a Nazi
@@BrettonFerguson. The US wanted to lessen the carpet bombings of cities on Germany but the British insisted they go along with the plan.
You really seem to have a virulent anti-American streak and I’m going to call out every comment you make. It seems on EVERY TIME YOU POST, you somehow bring America and American ONLY into the post.
maybe , but the allies were nt trying to take over the world
Unless you are or have been yourself a sailor I can tell you that no matter what a sailor does not see an enemy in the water a sailor sees another sailor who has been shipwrecked and needs to be rescued. Sailors see things differently. No room for malice out there.
Well spoken, my friend. Thank you! Frederic (Sailor)
true.
except chinese, japanese and russian navy.
HJZ (sailor)
The sea is such as hostile place (the blue desert) , true sailors know they can depend on each other. Unwritten law. Now it is even punishable by law, if a ship does not come to the rescue of one in need.
Only two places where man puts his faith in god.
In court and at sea.
Soldiers feel the same. At least good soldiers do. I respect all people who serve their country right or wrong.
@@helmuthj.zotter7272 i will list the countries i have been propagandized to beleive are "bad". I know of no stories good or bad about chinese navy. until recenlty THEY DIDN'T HAVE ONE. Japan? ya that one i buy. Russia: lets' be real here even to this day we are CONSTANTLY told that Russians are vile evil animals that need to be destroyed. WELL the nazis tried and paid for it. Now we are trying AGAIN in Ukraine with NAZIS paid for trained and funded BY US.
Agree with you. My Dad was a sailor. Jenny SA
I see that the Antic Master Fegelein has now become the Grand Admiral.
really touch my heart 💓 about the German u-boat crew.. especially the good capitan he shows that all ñazi human nature are not equal. He follows the order n love his crew.
This differentiation among "nazi human nature" wasn't relevant enough to prevent the horror they initiated and perpetrated on the world, so it hasn't borne and doesn't bear mentioning.
People seem to forget or not know that it was ONLY a THIRD of the German voters who voted for Hitler, and to justify that one has to consider the economic conditions in Germany that existed back then.. Once he was in power, any resistance meant certain death. Conclusion: One cannot label ALL Germans as Nazis. Compare this with 2020 USA, when 72 million Americans, only short 8 million to make it half, voted for a man who endeavors to emulate A.H. and a one-man dictatorship.
THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR SHARING!!!! I have a great interest in history, mainly WWII and sometimes it is painful and troubling I pray we've learned by now WORLD WARS are not a good place to go. May we live in peace and harmony one day with GOD'S help. AGAIN THANK YOU FOR SHARING THIS, it leaves a person speechless.
Tihomir Tomov I guess you don't read much history? And less than that remark was made just to be mean spirited. That kind of remark is just what starts conflicts.
That is the sad true . I read even books forbidden in Germany now !!! Is it normally when You say : I doubt in a holocaust : go to prison
Amen, and God bless you for saying so. :)
Gregg Heilman. Lol. For leaving a person speechless, you did OK.
Shove your god up your arse, there's a good chap.
A great and sad story of WW2.R.I.P sailors and civilians. War is hell. From this Canuck.
The first casualty of war is the truth.
Amen. Also, history is written by the victors. The crew of that Liberator are probably sitting right next to Hitler and Bin Laden in hell. Shameful.
@@seanshepherd1543 Churchill too. He started the bombing of residential areas in WW2.
No, the first casualty of war is a dead soldier. If you had ever been in combat you will agree.
@@miconayeligonzales1325 Shut up nazi apologist
Bretton Ferguson - Great upload, thanks.
During her fifth patrol, in which she sank no shipping and made no attacks, U-156 was attacked twice. As a result of the second attack, on 8 March 1943, she was sunk east of the island of Barbados, in position 12°38′N 54°39′WCoordinates: 12°38′N 54°39′W, by a US PBY Catalina from VP-53 captained by Lieutenant E. Dryden. The aircraft dropped four Mark 44 Torpex-filled depth charges at 13:15 from an altitude of 75 feet (23 m) to 100 feet (30 m) which straddled the submarine. Two were observed to hit the water 10 feet (3.0 m) to 15 feet (4.6 m) starboard and just aft of U-156, lifting it and breaking it in two, followed by an explosion. At least eleven survivors were seen swimming in the water. Two rubber rafts and rations were dropped, and five men were seen to reach one of the rafts. USS Barney was dispatched from Trinidad to rescue the survivors; the search was abandoned on 12 March 1943.
Awww such a pro you are, such historian!! ooohh! wooooowww!!!
@@1Roamingwolf and such a clow you are necroing a 5 year old post
@@dcd231 he is sarcastic nobody gives a shit to these long obituaries less he is a bitter old fart who holds a grudge to the U boats starving brits to almost succumbing
He's a fighter, only when he has two men holding the boxer, always a cowart who talks tough.
Millon de gracias, llevo muchisimo tiempo buscando esta m serie ;)
During the war, my father watched 2 torpedoes pass by his aircraft carrier.
Never knew of this one, before now. thanks for the download. I love histology. And this was finally known about. because the truth cane out, about, what really happened.
You would be surprised if you find out more allied war crimes.
Thanks for posting this. I knew of the incident, however I never knew there was a movie about it. Looks like I will be adding another ww2 movie to my collection.
My grandfather came to America on the Laconia, his port, Boston, 1926, from Dublin, IE.
Meiner Meinung nach ein sehr guter Film und auch eine gute Geschichte die den alten Kameraden aus den U-Booten zu Recht zu steht. Heute ist es sehr einfach über alles zu urteilen..... Diese Männer haben großes geleistet......
speak american english as i would not know what you're saying otherwise
@@awokeorasleepgodsaves. Not everyone has to speak our absolute garbage of a language
More likely it is "silently forgotten and not talked about"...
Cant even describe how idiotic on massive scale it was to shoot at the rescue operation, and even more funny how they were awarded medals for sinking two lifeboats and killing their own allies... And no punishment? Neither side really left the war with clean hands.
Thats the american military in a nutshell.
1. Fuck up.
2. Claim your fuck up was a sucsess.
3. Give medals to the people who fucked up or where orded to fuck up
4. When evidence surfaces that it wasn´t a sucess, claim the other side was at fault.
Teufelsnachbar667 You are wise beyond your years.........thats is their standard operating procedure..........you forgot that they usually give them a parade also..
medals for trying to rescue...duh....accidents are like that...savvee..??
i pity your narrow mind.
40:45 thats exactly what churchill did for three months.....BEFORE hitler retaliated
Best movie I've watched in a long time
Thank you for sharing this. I never saw it before but knew the story.
No problem. I looked for it everywhere and couldn't find it. Finally I decided to get a copy and post it myself. UA-cam blocked it for Copywrite violations at first, but the BBC must have decided to let me post it, because it is no longer blocked.
@@BrettonFerguson Boooooooooooooooooooooooooring!
Obrigada por postar ,ótimo filme.👏🤝🇧🇷
Great upload thank you very much for your time
Thanks for being a fan and supporter, I appreciate. You can chat with me on my gmail. Kenduken45@gmail.com
uboat captains logs are prized among historians
Failed to mention the 3 additional Submarines ordered to assist the rescue Mission, 2 german and 1 italian
They are in Part 2
Plus the Vichy French surface ships that rescued survivors along the way as they're travelling to their rendezvous point
Yea okay they adressed that in part two.
Still they try to depict the british in a better light than deserved, for example the misstreating of the italian POWs was depicted as entirely due to the polish auxiliar Forces and had nothing to do with the british according to the Movie, wich is BS
and their "fail" to differentiate military Shipping from civilian ones.
All in all, the Laconia was as perfectly legitimate military Target as the Lusitania was
@@ottersirotten4290 RMS Royal Munitions Ship Lusitania
Ive seen Titanic, Terror at sea: sinking of the Lusitania, Die Gustloff, but not this. This seems like it will be a good one.
You realise these were real people that died right ... not ‘a good one’
@@Nexus-ub4hs ok Karen.
@@michaeltapper4249 You don't need to tell everyone that you are a stupid, anti American democeap.
Rule 1. Never let people know you can sing or play an instrument.
Gone but not forgotten
This was written in our middle school and again mentioned in our high school history classes….what’s weird is that there is a time line not shown or recorded….
U excellent movie thank you very much
Muchas gracias por la traducción y por subirlo 👍🇨🇱
De nada. Sin embargo, no hice la traducción. Otro usuario preguntó si podía hacer los subtítulos en español y le di permiso.
It was because of the US aircraft attacks on the Uboats which were trying to rescue and save many of the survivors of the Laconia, that led Admiral Karl Donitz to issue orders that the commanders of U-boats were not to compromise the safety of their boats and crews by helping or attempting to help survivors of ships sunk as an act of war. That order led Donitz to be tried for war crimes for which he was sentenced to 20 odd years in prison. U-boats commonly assisted survivors of ships they had torpedoed by providing them with food and water and even directions they should point their lifeboats to land. Many U-boat commanders continued to do so even after the order was issued by Donitz. Hartenstein, after torpedoing the Laconia and realising the large numbers of people who were in the water and in lifeboats, even broke radio silence to request assistance in rescuing as many as could be rescued and he also extended that request to any ships which might have been able to assist while declaring that no attack would be made to any enemy vessel which might be able to assist in the rescue. Gallantry and chivalry existed especially among the U-boat commanders.
There were a-lot of brave men among them! They were only interested in sinking ships, not killing men. They pulled off some amazing feats of seamanship!
We used the some Tactics Admiral Donitz used. We used them in the Pacific with are Subs warfare.
Donitz was sentenced to ten years not 20.
Germany declared the damn war on America, had they not done that, there would be less to cry about. Germany was the ENEMY. Don't make heroes out of them. You going to defend the hero- guards of the Death Camps too ?
@@davidarnce7958 there is good and evil men on both sides during war. The US had war crimes as well during the war.
Thank you for sharing this movie and enlighten me with a side of the war I never before knew.
You would be surprised more if you find out more about war crimes of the Allies.
@@aka99 The victors never get punished for war crimes, but all sides do it in every war
@@CalYoung-tu9gi i know and i did not say the opposite. it is just most people just know about the war crimes of the germans. Even they were more horrible and often done by order, the allies did war crimes too. Thats what i just said.
I know and I have become a ww2 history fanatic in the last couple years and I think the Soviets and Japan killed more innocent civilians than Germany did. It’s just that hitler tried to wipe out an entire race and the reason why he is remembered the most evil man in the 20th century is because he is still worshipped to this day. But because Stalin was probably one of the only reasons that the Allie’s won the war all his war crimes got swept under the rug
@@CalYoung-tu9gi Your thinking Soviets and Japan killed more civilsts is very likely right. The reason why mostly people in the western world dont know about the japanese war crimes is because they arent told. It also got something to do how America treated Japan after ww2. Way better than Germany, compared both. And Soviets, that could be a reason. But think of the Cold War. The Soviets were the enemy number one for decades. I do not think they would hide the war crimes much. As for USA most americans only remember actions and soldiers of america. And the soviets of course tried to hide their war crimes and lied. Like you said before, only the looser got trialed for war crimes.
enjoying!! Thanks Bretton.
Toda una grata sorpresa toparme con esta interesante película en la que se narra todo un inusual hecho,como fue el noble comportamiento de este capitán alemán con los naúfragos del Laconia.
P
Unbelievable what great minds Germany had. The design of those U-Boats were insane on it's complexity. Even now in 2023, watching one in the water is just so intimidating. The fact that the type VII and IX were so autonomous and could cover such great distance. Just breathtaking, almost beautiful but in a dark way. No one was safe in the ocean with those things.
The English and the US were masters at finding ways to detect and destroy them. Sad such a high percentage of the German Navy didn't make it. War.
war is always damn hell
Water under your feet, covered in oil. Must be a human ! Thanks tars. Dave.
stunning, sadly not unique , thanks for upload, blessings
Very entertaining. The submarine used in the film is a type IXB while the U 156 was actually a type IXC.
What is the distinguishing feature you can tell them apart? I know the interior was filmed on a Type VII, but I think the exterior was a mock up. The exterior looks like a type IX to me, but I'm not an expert. I think the type VII was narrower in the bow.
My mother was a civilian nurse in this ship.
Would often tell me she spent two days in a life boat.
Oh the things my mother must have witnessed as a nurse
seriously?
@@awokeorasleepgodsaves. seriously. She's on the log
Thanking your mother for HER service.
58:35 = Best line ever!
R.I.P baby
The B-24 pilot and the commander should be punish for attack a U-boat that pick up survivor.
Think they may well be dead by now, this was well over 70 years ago
Yes,in nuremberg Trial Dönitz Told them the story of this incident and America Was grately emberrased after hearing the story and Went on a Top secret mission to Find the pilots if they survived,and after a year of Finding the pilots they were found Guilty and were Imprisoned for life and they were all Demoted and is probably deaf today
@@johannsebastianbach9003 See, western democracies seek truth, self improvement, reparation, that's the difference, while its always a work in progress, people higher and higher up can be exposed for and made vulnerable to, own up and pay for their wrongdoing, abuses of power, regardless of wealth and ranking
They were awarded medals.
So far am enjoying this old film very much. At 37:01 a tune I like from the first time I ever heard it. Some here may remember it from Doctor Strangelove.
Very good movie. It such good luck for those civilians that a type IX U-boat was the boat that was there. Imagine if it was a type VII or a type II.
first time watching it myself, & it is great
I just saw that Thomas Kretschmann(aka FEGELEIN!) is in this. xD
Anyway, it's a good watch of this. 👍
Kretschmann is actually the one playing Karl Dönitz, Supreme Commander of the German Navy at that time! =)
I'm college educated and consider myself well read, an aficionado of WW2 subjects, and this is the first I've heard of this story. History is written or edited by the victors ;)
Have you ever heard of the battle of Schloss Itter?
The USN was heavily embarrassed when Dönitz brought up the Laconia, and the reason behind the Laconia accords. Which the Nürnberg trials claimed as war crimes.
Stalin was the victor, but he did not get to write history. Must of the history of the Eastern Front was written by Germans like Halder after the war, looking to blame Hitler for their failures and to praise their own prowess.
These days, being college educated isn't something to brag on...
Can one claim education while so enamored with cliche?
hartenstein followed the law of the sea,attempted to get the survivors to a port, radioed brit HQ in the clear for permission/ white flag passage, he was refused, in jean noli's book
about the U boats,hartenstein said to his 2nd in command,,'never forget this,exec,men are bastards.'
I wish everyone were educated enough in history to know that there were atrocities committed by all sides in WW2, that the decisions of a few bad eggs in positions of authority caused a lot of needless suffering. But where’s a lot of people are failing to understand is that the lesson isn’t “The Allies weren’t any better than Nazi’s”. The lesson is that war isn’t a game. Every soldier or officer is an individual and just like in anything there are good ones, great ones, bad ones, sick ones and evil ones. This is a story to reflect on who gets put in power and how far “just following orders” really goes in justifying what someone will do to themselves vs how the rest of the world sees it. On a grand scale of course the Nazi’s were worse than the Allie’s, they were spending half their nation’s money killing off millions of innocent citizens because of their religion while forcing the remainder of their young population to fight for something they didn’t understand, believe in, or often even know the whole truth about.
mein gott en himmel(what little german language i remember being translated "my God in Heaven."), but then by george i believe that you're right
03:10 Odd question. If I were to look for music to buy like the music playing right there what genre would I search? I want to get a collection of this sort of music. The music from that era and that genre.
@@JC39944 Nice. Thank you!
A very good film , Totally engrossing .
marvellous, fantastic
Despite blowing up their ship and watching them die in admiration, the Germans still show hospitality to them.
@LJ Roos. It was unrestricted Warfare at Sea. Donitz probably saved quite a-few lives! Hitler gave him the order that All survivors in Lifeboats were to be Machinegunned. Donitz point blank refused. Instead he told the U-Boat crews not to offer anymore assistance. Thank, pretty much to this event. Good old US of A again!
@@saffakanera you're a propaganda tool
@@petej8556 But after the Laconia Order many U-Boat commanders still provided food, water and directions to the nearest land for survivors! True, another rescue operation was ever attempted especially after the heinous actions of my countrymen in the B-24 Liberator!
@@petej8556 U stupid fck Hitler Did not ordered the survivors to be machingunned his orders was not to help them because it can cause patrol delay, u stupid fck
@@johannsebastianbach9003 calm down Allen.
so weird to have pows and 1st class passengers on the same ship. but apparently it wasn't ushered of in WW2 and indeed in other wars too
Just researching a family tree and found a man from Lancashire who died in this incident.
33:35 my one issue with the movie, that's the front of the conning tower in the background. Meaning the camera is looking from the stern. He also says backbord (port/larboard). Yet the animation was made as if the boat is traveling to their left, and they are looking over the starboard beam. So Starboard had to be used in the subtitles....
A lot of the subtitles don't match the German, but they're not "far off" the gist of the sentences....
I notice that in a lot of German movies, documentaries, interviews, the English subtitles aren't 100% accurate. They are close, but not quite right. I wonder if it is intentional or if some guy just BSed his way into getting the job translating for the subtitles.
Apart from this being a good movie based on real historical event from WW-II, what astonished me is that the BBC has shown Germans Navy-men as good guys !!!
Arvind Sahai ...as time goes on...truth comes out on the reality of why Germany fought. Start with the brutal Treaty of Versailles....
not all the germans were nazi's a lot did obey the rules of war. who ordered the bombers to destroy a sub under red cross banners should have been prosecuted for war crimes.
The Kriegsmarine sailors and officers at the time were not nazi loyalist, they are interested in just sinking supply ships and escort ships not fulfiling Hitler's dream in 1000 year reich.
It surprised you that fascists showed other fascists in a sympathetic light?
@@ramal5708 to roughly quote the somewhat known british Fashist Oswald Mosley "I would always fight for my Nation, even under an socialist Goverment"
When your Nation is at War, you arent concerned with politics, you are concerned with winning becouse you know losing means to get f***ed immesurably hard.
The german Navy was idiologicly speaken not much different from Army and Airforce
Screwups are part of war. War is the one activity in which you can engage where ordinary "little" omissions, slips of judgement, and common mistakes cost peoples' lives. The officer who decided to order the attack made the first mistake; the pilot who did not refuse the order made the second mistake. If any of you find yourself in the military, remember this: it's not just a job, it's serious.
From your speech I get an interesting theory of war as a way to redeem Peoples from spreaded missbehaving. Force them to re-learn that you're tight to do your best when you live in a Civilization... Am I in the right perspective?
SAD FACT IS the worst crime you can commit in the military is having a soul most of the time. Most soldiers just follow orders no matter what country. but some are partculalry callous about it and unfrtuantly NATO has long follen into that catagory.
The History Channel showed a documentary regarding this incident with Italian POWs crowding around the u-boat, not civilian passengers. and the U.S. war plane that spotted them did not attack. After seeing the peculiar setup, the pilot radioed headquarters for further instructions. Orders to attack came later.
History Channel. You are only going to get the pro American version of events on the history channel. Also I'm surprised they didn't fit aliens or mermaids into the story for ratings.
@@BrettonFerguson You seem to keep failing to mention when the screwup was found out a year later they were all court martialed and punished
@@adamscott7354 Someone got their panties in a bunch. Want to talk about the complete lie about the Iraqi soldiers killing babies in the maternity ward in Kuwait? Or would that just shatter your reality about how great your homorica is. "U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.!"
@@BrettonFerguson So you're trying to compare a few sporadic incidents here and there to what Iraqi army is doing to Kurds and Kuwaitis, Druze as somehow equal, as bad, what colour is the sky on your planet?
and that is what makes it a war crime. ther was no uncertanty. clear orders to diregaurd the flag of truce during a humantrian operation were DILBERATLY IGNORED.
After 564 out of 10,000 on gustloff were rescued the t 36 left the Baltic sea at best speed
its sad how the italian pow are almost never remembered
1,793 Italian prisoners were on the Laconia. Only 373 Italians survived. Most did not escape their cages when the ship sank. Some were shot trying to escape the ship. Others were killed in the water trying to get into lifeboats. A total of 1420 Italians died.
I can't help but feel admiration for the WWII Italian POWs.
They were the builders and designers of many of buildings in my old neighborhood. Their legacies include the man-made agate used for the stairs and entry ways all over the neighborhoods and the local cemeteries.
That's why to this day, "Enzo the baker" from "The Godfather" (1972) is one of all time favorite movie characters.
Sorry to learn that many died in this tragedy.
The victors always write the history, as it should be. But nearly always, the truth lies somewhere between the stories told by the combatants. I believe this is a relatively true historical record. Looking from where I am now, this should have never happened, probably criminal. On the other hand, i was not there, I did not live through the horrors of those war days. I hope that history never repeats.
I did not hear the hundreds of Italian POW mentioned that were locked up below deck. The guards refused to unlock the hatches and these guys went down with the ship.
@@hansmoss7395 - Poor bastards...and those guards were never trialed for mass murder !
Mr Carey. Is that so. Pity they cant do that re Politics.Law. Police Courts. Education. Health. Mredia. (12 yrs spent knocking on doors despite the threats)
oh it was criminal. they heard the transmission loud and clear, the called their base for further instructions and were ordered VERY CLEARLY to attack the U-boats anyways.
PRETTY SURE THAT A WAR CRIME. Decades of Murica Droppng Freddom later....
@@pedrolistacarey4880. They had POLISH guards.
A sad chapter amoung many sadder. Perhaps a missed opportunity for things to have been done differently, but desperation took precedence?
Das ist Thomson... THOMSON!
Wait, Hermann Goring was the Laconia skipper? The plot thickens...( same actor played Goring in " Nuremberg", another great film that's available on UA-cam )
I think his name is Brian Cox.
The ocean is so calm.
Yes. The "open ocean" scenes were filmed in Granger Bay north of Cape Town. The scenes where people were in the water were filmed in a tidal pool in Strandfontein. It's hard to get the actors and camera crews to work when the wind is above 30 kph or the waves more than 4 inches high.
@@BrettonFerguson. So are you South African?? Let’s talk about your countries WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL HISTORY?!
Or are you Spanish and part of the fascists or like all of them do they wash their hands of the slave trade?!
And if you’re British…oh boy. Let’s just do a deep dive into THAT ONE!!!
There’s a strong comradeship between sailors even if they are trying to kill each other. The sea is the biggest enemy
Most aren't trying to kill each other. They are trying to sink the ships and cargo if there is any. Killing even 2000 sailors will have no effect on the war. It's not like killing 2000 expert pilots.
that could possibly be just a difference of views, &/or opinions to some if not all
As far as I know the German were the only ones that tried to fallow the prize rules.
You know what makes german in ww1 start unrestricted submarine warfare? Because british invented Q-ship which basically merchantmen designated to trick german subs to surface so they can follow prize rules that destroy them with gun at point blank range. Sounds tricky huh?
@@muhamadsayyidabidin3906 Plus the British and Americans used civilian passenger ships to smuggle weapons and ammunition from neutral America to the UK.
@@muhamadsayyidabidin3906 and then murder the survivors as in Baralong....no brit ever got hanged for that war crime...scandal
Ahh the Americans and friendly fire. They could make a career out of it.
Back in WWII bombing civilizations wasn't collateral damage, it was the strategy. The UK and USA targeted civilian populations as part of a strategy to destroy German morale, and kill the workers who kept the economy going.
No one does friendly fire like the British:
27 June - a group of RAF Vickers Wellingtons bombed the units of 4th County of London Yeomanry (Sharpshooters), British 7th Armoured Division and the British 3rd Hussars during a two-hour raid near Mersa Matruh, Egypt, killing over 359 troops and wounding 560.[41] The aftermath of RAF raids at this time were also seen by the Germans: "... The RAF had bombed their own troops, and with tracer flying in all directions, German units fired on each other. At 0500 hours next morning 28 June, I drove up to the breakout area where we had spent such a disturbed night. There we found a number of lorries filled with the mangled corpses of New Zealanders who had been killed by the British bombs ..
All forces engaged in combat in WW II endured incidents of friendly fire, some obviously worse than others. Such mistakes are a natural consequence of combat in any theatre of war. That said, you are correct in pointing out that allied forces were far more zealous in pressing home fire that proved to be 'friendly'. They were far, far more successful at covering up their own war crimes of which the incident portrayed in this film pales in comparison to many that followed . . . Cheers!
Bretton Ferguson Thought thé sub crew put out rescue of allies on open radio. Then there’s Gulf War 1 of course.... also no prosecutions
William Eaton What about the dress rehearsal for D Day, 900 Americans dead by friendly fire
Excellent for a "Cheap TV movie", second half gets a bit too drawn out going into ever ones personal lives. But I enjoyed it.
Who wins the war writes the History, as usual. There were no saints on either side!
Ah, Franka Potente....Gorgeous.
She looked better when she was younger. Such as the film Run Lola Run.
Todo cinéfilo sabe que la única manera de disfrutar una película extranjera, es en su idioma original y subtitulada en español latino de preferencia, se habla en más países.
Exelente película.
Gracias por no desgraciar la película doblandola al español.
Gracias. Me alegro que hayas disfrutado.
War leaves scars
that gave us lesson for the incoming generation.
The Laconia Captain looks like the actor of Goering in the movie
*NUREMBEG*
Because it is?
O navio Lacônia foi naufragado, no dia 12/09/1942.
The u-boat should have fired on that lousy U.S. airplane!!! Hartenstein had every right to defend his ship and his crew!!!
...AND I'M SPEAKING AS AN AMERICAN!!!
Dale Burrell I agree water nothing but big boys on the block with big toys with a show who got the biggest dick in the shower room. War means diplomatic failure to negotiate that's what that means it also mean one other thing you can Google this right here on UA-cam quote all wars are Bankers Wars unquote
up until that point, laconia included...Hartenstein and u 156 had sunk112,745 tons of shipping. tell me how it didn't make sense to take your chance to sink that sub?
@@mikegreck2625 Two words. War crime. Attacking a ship that is obviously trying to rescue people from the sea AND is flying the red cross banner is a war crime. Plain and simple. Especially if the ship or ships in question issued a radio call for help in English. And since this incident caused the so called Laconia Order, nobody can say for sure how many people had to die because of these idiotic cowboys and their superiors. And to make matters worse, these idiots even received medals for sinking a German submarine. And not even that was true. The only thing they hit were lifeboats. Does that answer your question?
nope. did you not read the numbers I provided?
@@mikegreck2625 I did. The problem is that these numbers don't make it right. I do, however, understand your point. The problem is that the only ones dying that day were shipwrecked people and POWs. This constitutes a war crime. And the fact that Dönitz was able to use this incident to defend himself at the Nuremberg trials shows clearly that this was the consensus at the time. They tried to accuse him of a war crime because of the so called "Laconia Order" which was issued after this incident and which forbade German submarine crews explicitly to take on people in the water. So this incident may have cost the lives of an untold number of people in the aftermath. It wasn't just the people the bomber crew killed outright. But from a military standpoint you're right, I guess. Sad but true. Maybe the story would have played out differently if it were a "normal" ship and not one of the hated uboats.
i cant belive FEGILIN is in the movie!
Fegelein? Fegelein? !
It seems to be a Bourne Identity reunion.
33:36 Subtitle error, he says "Backboard" which means portside, not starboard.
?
Who The Hell Would Throw A Damn Baby Like That?
Fool of a woman in the beginning thinks the world should wait for her while she gets sugar for her tea.
31:34 the Kapitan falls on his face....
33:35 That subtitle is wrong. It says "starboard," but Waldemar said "backbord," the German word for "port."
For some reason English subtitles of German are always not quite right. It makes me think the movie studios hire people less qualified to do the subtitles. Maybe someone owes someone a favor, or they have a friend who took a german class years ago. I don't know for sure, but it is often not accurate.
Sailors See things Differently - USSR NAVY , 1983 - Thank Ya ALL !!!
One must understand that troop ships were in transit from America and England at the time to participate in the invasion of N Africa and Casablanca (west coast of Africa) The invasion was 2 to 3 weeks after this attack on multiple U-boats.
The POWs were all Italian. An ally of Germany. The Germans knew this and attacked the Laconia anyway.
More than 7,000 concentration camp survivors killed after the Royal Air Force erroneously bombed German prison ships carrying them in the Baltic Sea, were remembered with special prayers for the first time in 76 years since the tragedy happened.
Described as “the worst friendly-fire incident in history”, SS Cap Arcona, alongside the Thielbek and Deutschland, came under attack and were ultimately sunk by RAF pilots on 3 May 1945 in the Bay of Lubeck, following intelligence that SS officers and senior Nazis were attempting to escape to Norway.
Jewish News UK 7,000 Jewish victims of prison ships sunk by RAF page
Great Movie, but when the baby fail 😢 😢 😢. I couldn’t live without my Kid.
I love war and crime dramas that reflect a good amount of realism but this well made drama is a bit too real for my taste. Debating whether to continue.
Part 2 is the best part of the story. Part 1 was just setting the stage and back story for all the interesting parts.
it's a real thriller similar to the content of a prize winning novel
240p....we meet again
Yeah the low resolution sucks, this was the only version I could find. Finding torrents of movies has been extremely difficult the last few years since Demonoid and Pirate's Bay have been shut down.
@@BrettonFerguson thanks for the upload.
@@michaeltapper4249 No problem. Thanks for watching it.
Adding a bit to the background...
Maybe a slight correction... The 103 Polish guards came from the 1st Kompania Szkoły Podchorążych 8. Dywizji Piechoty (the first Company of Cadet school of the 8th Infantry Division) thus very young boys. Their only defence was a rifle with a bayonet against an overwhelming number of POW's, they were not issued ammunition. Hardly were there likely to bully adult POW.
The unit was formed after evacuating from Soviet Russia 24 March - 4 April 1942 where the soldiers were suffering in bitter cold and under nutrition. Highly unlikely they were fit for any boxing by September 1942...
"Hardly were they likely to bully adult POWs" Prisoners almost always outnumber guards, and are often physically larger than the guards, this does not prevent guards from abusing prisoners, and you have somehow never seen how teenage boys act when in groups.
With your view of the situation, why didn't the Italian prisoners simply overwhelm the unarmed Polish children guarding them, take over the ship, and sail back to Italy?
@@BrettonFerguson is that what you can see in the film? If so, we have seen two different films.
Secondly, if anyone shot at the prisoners it couldn't be the cadets as they were not issued ammunition.
If so who shot at the prisoners? Who had an interest in presenting cadets as the opressors? Were the cadets responsible for the conditions provided abord the ship? At least about that the film is truthfull - the prisoners refer to the British about those?
Thus the Polish cadets were to cotrol adult men more or less experienced soldiers in inhumane conditions armed with bayonets? Who would be more likely to be scared out of their witts - the guards or the guarded?
@@mukid1968 Do you want to talk about history or do you want to talk about the film? Or do you want to switch back and forth depending on what is convenient for your argument? You can't even stay on one subject. One minute you are talking about abuse of prisoners, then you fall back and say you are only talking about who shot the prisoners. You are so full of shit. You should work for CNN, or Hillary 2024.
Correct me if I am wrong - we are reffering here to a film connected to a historical event, are we not?
This is not a website which focuses on history - so it is logical to refer to both - if you have a problem with that - this is where I can not help you.
Historically - the guys had no ammo so they couldn't shoot.
The cadets had no means to guarantee conditions of transport - neither was it their responsibility - it is ill will to blame them for them.
Furthermore, their task was just to implement orders in inhumane conditions having provided them no equipment, or provisions to do so otherwise.
Thus blaming them is trying to find a scape goat which is all too familiar - see blaming Sosabowski for the failed Market Garden Operation (yes I am talkig about a broader historical background here - just in case you got lost).
@@mukid1968 I'll explain it to you simple. You started talking about history. Then when I talked about history, you switched and said "Show me where it has that in this film?"
Also you said the Polish could not have abused the prisoners in any way because they were young. Then you switched and said they couldn't have shot any prisoners because they didn't have ammo.
So you decide, are we talking about only the film, or are we talking about history. Are we talking about prisoner abuse, or are we talking about only shootings.
It is historical fact Italian prisoners were left locked in cages when the Laconia sank. The ones who broke out, some shot to prevent them from reaching lifeboats. Once in the water they were bayoneted and other had their hands chopped off with axes to prevent them climbing into lifeboats.
Then you come along and say they couldn't have been mistreated because they were guarded by polish children who had no ammunition.
240p? You're having a giraffe mate.
Yes, 240p makes you feel like you are in 1942.
Seriously though, it was the only copy I could find. I've been looking for an HD torrent of this movie for years.
Its super sad movie jeseus
No Actors or Turtles died in the making of this movie
another countless disgraced episodes of wars..