Well, I can see it happening again, but because of the retelling of the story, when super 2 comeback There is a high possibility that they will retell the story of lazy gohan and the lesson Always be prepared, At least until we see gohan go beast mode again.
lol dont jinx it man.... 😟 would be sad if they nerd him out again. cant wait to see what toyo and toriyama do. hyped for EOZ reboot tho. i believe in you toyotoro lol. dbs is on fire atm.
I think it will happen but it won't affect gohan . Remember that End of Z Gohan trained all those years leading up to GT. So if gohan has gone back to his studies. He will balanced that with his training regimes. By the way, someone gotta draw beast end of z gohan!
I see them keeping the overall theme of "End of Z" the same but modifying it for Super to fit in. Idk why people keep thinking they're going to strictly use the original End of Z.
It’s because DBS is set before DBZ ends. Duh! This is why when you explain what happens in a timeskip, you don’t make anything too radical otherwise this debacle happens. It has to be believable for what happens next. And the end of dragon ball Z happening in DBS post Tournament of power arc is unbelievable at best.
god ki uub > jiren. it aint that had to believe... 😄😯 it just puts over oob even more tho. ya and that old fat grand kai was OP. underrated. @@kirklanyoshinaga8953
It's simple, the timelines split because of beerus having the dream. 1. Everything leading up to BoG is the same. Including yo son goku and friends return! 2. Dbz and dbs timelines split when beerus wakes up prematurely. According to old kaioshin. 3. The whole zamasu/future trunks stuff, fractured the timeline even more. They went to and fro in the past/future at least 3 times. I'm wondering if merged zamasu got away in one of them?
If they just gave the Ss4 upgrades too goten and trunks or even broly since he’s since it would give each current Z fighter a specific ability too call they’re own, like having UI goku, gohan or vegeta fight against a super saiyan 4 at current level would be amazing. Most importantly Someone God Please help Krillen, just give him Kaio Ken or something and 5 senzu beans he will work it out.
Thank you Unknown scholar for requesting this video, and Saiyan Scholar for making it and uploading it to YT This is what I've been thinking for a bit but ESPECIALLY since the EOZ dlc in Kakarot "There's no way Super and EOZ can coexist together in the same timeline" is what I've been thinking yet everyone I watched play it was just saying "where's ___ (insert Super idea/character/form here)" but I felt it was obvious why, they are not canon to each other (my thoughts) I'm just glad someone's actually NOTICING AND COMMENTING ON IT Thank you
I’m a firm believer that Super is a separate alternate timeline. There’s just so much that doesn’t add up with the original canon ending in 1996. Some even not matching up with the original anime. Like Goku’s characterization, and Future Trunks’s blue hair.
Dont care, Toriyama said alot of things out of his ass just to change it later. Plus Super writing is god awful so its about as canon as the Sequel trilogy of Star Wars, which SW fans notoriously pretend just doesnt exist. Learn what good writing and scaling is then come back @DaThickSimmer
@DaThickSimmer "quit acting like a child" "calm yourself, its not that serious" Youre the only one taking it serious enough to throw insults and assume anger with literally no basis to the claim, kinda ironic and speaks to how poor your character is.
@@Heaven0854Toei are the ones that switched the colors, like Frieza being lavender skinned in the anime, but pink in db broly as that was the color Toriyama always had it as.
dragon ball super doesn’t make end of z non canon.the end of z will ALWAYS be canon,it’s toriyama’s original ending and nothing can change that,if anything Dbs is non canon for contradicting the original manga
Right and I hear this a lot but lemme ask you what if Toriyama, not Toyotaro but Toriyama himself but probably in some papers online it would say that he has changed things... What then Lol?
@@danteshollowedgrounds that’s a possibility,but until proven otherwise the end of z is set in stone.and IMO toyotarou does not have the authority to reton that ending
In my Vision, everything in the "End of Z" can remain the same with having Beerus and Whis around this Time and Gohan still needs to become a Fighter and be a Scholar at the same Time, the thing I wanted to change is Bulma's Dialogue from 5 Years to be saying 5 or 6 Months in "Age 784" because the Son and Brief Families have been in Contact with each other throughout the past 5 Years around between "Age 779" and "Age 784" where all events of DBS have happened, so trying to change Bulma's Dialogue from Years into Months in EOZ's Time placement in "Age 784" can make much more Sense without Contradicting herself, but 1 other Thing I want to see change is Goku and Uub going to Train and Live in Beerus's Planet instead of living in Uub's Village or Dende's Lookout in GT.
Tbh I reckon Uub will be chosen to succeed Beerus and Goku will need to prepare him to eventually train with Whis. They’ll bait and switch Broly as a potential GoD but hell be too unstable.
@@TheTrveMothlord in the manga, they’re working w/ Broly on beerus planet controlling his rage. I believe Broly will replace beerus but Ubb, Gohan, piccolo, Goten&Trunks will be the new protectors of earth (pan too).
Bruh they honored the original ending and added a fan service fight that’s it. I think goku’s interested in Uubs potential he doesn’t care that he isn’t that strong yet. Super could honor it by having beerus and whis on their planet back home with Broly. But I’d rather them rewrite it really. The bulma not seeing goku for 5 years quote is the biggest issue tbh
I think more than anything Goku was looking for a new defender of Earth. It just worked that training him fits the selfish ambition to challenge himself constantly
I see super and end of Z being seperate timelines, where Super takes place of Deity battles while end of Z takes place of basic mortal training for 10 years, explains why they didn’t have divine power in end of Z
Another channel described Uub as someone who has a super high base level without power-ups, that's why Goku wants to fight him but also to train him as well
I think the excuse for uub is quite simple. Just say that he has potential to be a great defender of universe 7, which he obviously has power for that.
To be fair even in the dlc vegeta says for them to have a real battle they would need an entire planet. So its likely they held back massively as to not destroy earth imo ofc.
@@ZeroYami right so even if this takes place after super they aren't going 100% as I said as they have transformations beyond that. So what are you saying?
@cbts909 Probably saying that they went all out maybe only in base so they wouldn't "risk" destroying the Earth. Even though at that point even their base could easily destroy the Earth.
They should have beerus tell bulma to call them when the tournament is over so they can celebrate and eat a lot of food. Seems like something his character would do
I think Goku is just more likely to be interested in Uub's potential rather than his power itself. I mean he's way too strong for Earthling standards and even if he has the same power level of Cell, he can still catch Goku's attention. That is why Goku like to train him and maybe he can surpass Moro, Broly and Jiren just through training just like how strong Frieza and Android 17 got just by training.
I don't believe uub was the only challenge for goku as it could be more to the fact that goku promised to fight buu once he got reincarnated and they finally met. So it's more on the lines of keeping a promise
My theory, given that there are so many inconsistencies now with Super and end of Z, is that there is going to be some sort of divergence. They've already introduced multiverse and alternate timelines, there's no reason to imagine that they can't have something happen that splits the timeline again like it did with Trunks' future. That's the only way it makes any sense, the end of Z stays in it's timeline and Super continues into it's alternate timeline.
They could maybe go about it in a way that Goku is excited about the Buu reincarnation because he has fought everyone else again or atleast knew about them. Like Vegeta, Black Freiza, Cell Max even though he didn't fight him, and now Buu in Uub form. Some Uub has a good spirt now, Goku will want to take him under his wing
well oob has huge scary amount of god ki. even freak out vegeta lol. basically old fat gran kais leftovers from after moro got sealed... the firs time. that kai was massively OP. he put away a UI level villan way back then. thats pretty epic. fat kai could have one shot buu if he wasnt already half tapped out from moro. now its passed onto oob since he is a pure soul. like goku so he can tap into that huge reserve now. with goku help and training. its hype!!
Beerus and Whis not being present is fine. They don't visit earth for everything. Uub was not the strongest at the End of Z. He had the greatest POTENTIAL at the end of Z, which is why Goku decided to test and train him. His power would only grow from there. Goku didn't need to transform at the end of Z. Presumably he mastered the technique of Ultra Instinct, but we'll see about that. He was only testing Uub, and saw no need to transform. (This is further proof Uub was not the strongest yet, reinforcing my previous point).
At 10:25 I think vegeta is just talking about being stronger than him because Goku always ends up stronger than him and he wants to be stronger even tho he won every fight against him he doesn’t want to be surpassed by him since he is supposed to be a low class warrior and vegeta is the prince of all saiyans so it’s just the lore tbh
I mean, kid Buu didn't have any apparent training yet was stronger than all past villains. They could just reuse the justification for gold freezer in resurrection F.
A few things will need to be addressed before the end of Super, and I wonder how they’re going to do it. The issue of the gods and power scaling that comes with them needs to be resolved. It’s shown already that Beerus isn’t really a good guy, and is hiding the secret of the Saiyan destruction. Super’s overall plot seems to be leading to the notion that the gods shouldn’t be involved in the running of creation, and that self preservation should be left to the beings of the universe. There’s good reasons put forth that the gods aren’t actually all that great. Beerus’ entire character and motivations being at odds with everyone else, Zeno’s childish demeanour vs the incredible power and lack of restraint that he holds, and there being mortals that exist that are clearly shown to rival, if not closely rival, those of the existing gods (Jiren, Broly, Gogeta, etc). Who’s and the angels mission seems to be to being enlightenment to mortals. Whis has a few “knowing smile” moments when watching mortals, and is only subservient to Beerus as his current duty as an angel, but it clearly hiding a greater purpose. The tournament of power was a test, that already confirmed that mortals do have what it takes to look after each other, and maintain their own balance. So is god ki going to be removed somehow, (e.g. death of gods, wish from the Super Dragon Balls)? Or are they still not sure what they want to do? I think personally that having Goku and Vegeta become Angel and destruction god isn’t a good idea both narratively nor concept-wise, and I hope they don’t follow the manga.
I think it’s already explained. Anyone born with an extremely high power level naturally has greater potential like gohan and broly. Uub will be naturally the most powerful born mortal, meaning his potential will be off the charts.
before the tournament of power Goku did hint at the existence of Uub, but Uub still beign a baby, would make fighting in the tournament a little dificult
I never cared about the End of Z. Always considered it part of GT (even if it's not). At this point, 2 things might happen: 1) Retcon End of Z 2) Everyone gets their memory erased, their God Ki and insanely powerful forms and techniques taken away. Beerus goes to sleep. Nothing happened.
I always thought he just had tons of potential I mean kid buu never trained he's a lot like freeza in that regard I always thought that because the whole fight against him Goku is just training him a little and uub managed to get as strong as kid buu at least that's what I thought and imagine kid buu being a starting stat I can see why Goku would be excited
Seeing goku reminisce and reflect on everything that happened in z was actually very pleasing. A little sad this dlc was very short but it was a nice treat
the end of Z can easily tie the story in. Goten and Trunks being not strong enough could be reason enough to have them enter in the Budokai tournament, Pan training for it. Scholar Gohan now can still be strong and focus on studying at this time. Vegeta training check, Broly could be still training with whis and beerus while goku searches for uub. Uubs powers show its more than enough and the divine god kis goodness dampened kid buus power? he wasnt accustomed to use it yet. All adds up.
@@jasonone8726 that can still be ok for him not to this time around as well. It literally can still play out as goku still uses SS transformations even in super. He will do the same against uub. Then probably bring him to beerus planet and fight with his full power
So i believe there are some applicable standards associated with Ultra Instinct in any of its forms... in particular, the forms used by Goku in the Tournament of Power: Mainly, both forms of UI utilized by Goku as Whis stated are Divine Abilities that manifest during a specific state of mind akin to that of The Angels. These forms obviously Outperform SSG forms but the prerequisites for usage place too much at risk around a Planet as sensitive to disruption like Earth or Namek, but were able to be put on full display in the Null Realm With that in mind, it makes perfect sense why Whis encourages Goku to use his own path towards his own version of UI, because it is necessary for a Mortal like Goku to act based on feelings in line with his Saiyan Traits. He want's him to use UI but in a way that doesn't cause him to take away from the ability in the midst of possible causalties. In summary, there's no way Goku would feel it necessary to use the versions of UI that he currently has under his belt in the Tournament after the 10 Year Skip around Uub.
We're looking at a retcon in the making. I'm not against this, I really like Beerus, Whis and DBS Broly as characters, and how they're chilling with the other saiyans on Beerus's planet.
Fully agree GT did the right thing in going after, and not trying to squeeze retcons in Z's time gaps. I honestly don't see Super and the End of Z being in the same timeline/universe. I'd be happy to explore those time gaps, like what got Vegeta back into training/fighting after his Cell Games vow to never do it again. Heck, I'd even take Garlic Jr saga over Super. Super stains everything is touches. Nothing good came from Super. No, wait... ONE good thing came from Super: it made people appreciate GT more.
No need to be sorry, people who disagree are objectively wrong. Super has better fight choreography and scenes, I'll admit that, but when it comes to the actual story GT is so much better (at least in Japanese, English GT is meh)
I'm probably in the minority here but I never really liked Z's ending anyway. So if it's changed I'd be happy with it so long as it's better. I don't like Uub or the idea of him, don't like the non-saiyan EoZ designs (prefer Gohan's current design as an exception).
Can't think of one thing good about super.. specially the way toyotaro ignores Z.. dont get me wrong, I think beerus has loads of potential, but story wise.. I mean, look at our beloved krillin!
@ultranecromos9915 of course I am world strongest human and gokus best mate he was the trigger for the very first super sayan transformation and in the original dragon ball series he was also the first death of one of the Zfighters. Krillin is one of the most important side characters, and he is extremely loved by true fans of the real dragon ball series.
@@relikias1 fair enough they should give krillin & yamcha the lengendary hyper human transformation, and tien the God triclops transformation. Making them androids would ruin their character progression.
@serchizzle5728 is it? Second only to the first time goku transformed.. and the first time gohan went super saying 2 against cell, or the first tyme you see goku going super sayian 3.. hell even goku going ssj4 in GTwas better..obviously in my opinion.. (I don't even like DBgt that much, though l think that compared to super is a masterpiece)
What if Toriyama does the ultimate cockblock and there comes a point Goku and Vegeta give up their god ki and Whis erases everyone's memories of the god connected stuff of the past ten years? Would really leave Gohan and Piccolo overpowered though 😂
I remember years ago that UA-camr Forneverworld made a theory on Whis taking away Goku and Vegeta's God power and erasing everyone's mind. I hope that the first part doesn't happen, because then we wasted almost 10 years on Super. 😂
Isn't it obvious that Super and End of Z+GT are separate timelines? Trying to fit them both into one timeline is like trying to put a square shaped brick through the star-shaped hole.
the point of training with Uub isnt that Uub is stronger than all those villains or even Goku but that he has that sort of potential, and with Toriyama's retcon about Buu being a primordial being makes sense.
There is no reason why Super can't happen, the only issue is Pan, her age is the reason I myself find the ending of Z doesn't line in with Super. Also there is ZERO reason that Goku, Vegeta, Gohan not having the forms they have. Also, Z doesn't state how long Goku was waiting for Uub, it could be simply after 5 years of Super we have peace. You have to rmemeber that Freiza never trained his whole life and it took a Super Saiyan to bring him down. After he trained, he quickly past both Goku and Vegeta in their most powerful forms they ever reached with ease. There is no reason not to say that Uub could be trainned to one day be as powerful if not more powerful than those we've seen in Super. Also, about the UI, again, how many times as Goku used his base forms as Super Saiyan when we know he can go right into Super Saiyan Blue. Heck, Goku even used SS3 in the Tournament of power, why? Because he can. So I don't think the lack of Goku, Gohan and Vegeta and even PIccolo using their new forms that lets' face it, never existed in Z at the time. One thought I had, without going into the whole Z was another timeline, Maybe after whatever happens at the end of Super (we aren't there yet) Goku and gang give up their advance god like forms to never use again? Also, you talk a heck alot about the game, I didn't realize that we 're taking the games into account of canon? I always look at the official canon as two, The manga canon and then the anime.. As far as I look at it, there is the OG Canon, which is the Manga and the Anime (Z+GT), then you have Super which follows the manga for Z canon not including the end of Z. The anime is a retelling of the manga so they are the same canon but form different points of view, which includes the movies. GT does not exist to the Super canon. So easily way to look at it is this. I don't really see an issues, everything has multi-canons. For Anime it's always the manga as true canon as it's the source vs the anime. Think about the MCU, which is canon? The comics to the movies? See what I did there.
They gave uub a LOT of god ki, which can explain why he can stand up to base goku at the end of super/z. (he was far away from being serious.) Beerus and whis could just be on their planet, freeza could just be roaming around the galaxy conquering, or might even be the new GoD maybe? Gohan being stronger, cause of more training and beast, doesn't change that is a scholar. It would therefore be possible to get a “like end of Z ending.”
When I learned that Super didn't take place after Z, I already knew their was no shot it would ever line up. At this point their are too many inconsistencies. And for Uub to be as powerful as Goku had hoped he would be. I have no clue if Goku would mentor the kid or just take him to Beerus's world to be trained by Whis. Maybe they will power Uub up to be the next God Of Destruction lol.
Honestly, here is a route they could go, to tie into Z… Have all mortals no longer be able to tap into God Ki, nullifing SSJGod and Blue, so Goku and Begeta can no longer access their forms. The strength they acquired they can keep, but due to some circumstance, they are effectively removed from accessing God Ki, maybe something to do with Frezia Black. Afterwards, Beerus and Whis leave, and Beerus to sleep for another 30-60 years, that’ll explain why we don’t see them in end of Z. As for Kibito and Shin, maybe they re-fuse, so Kibito Kai is a thing again. That said, Goku and Begeta can still access their Ultra Instinct and Ego abilities, but it’s now taxing to their mortal limitations to use.
How amazing would it have been if at the end of z, (instead of GT) we get pan as the super Saiyan God in her journey training under Whis as a super Saiyan God, making her grandpa and father proud. Because the Buu saga was Gohan's time to shine, Toriyama decided he wouldn't cut it being a hero. So, now it's time for someone to make a name for themselves as that hero like Goku, that they haven't actually been able to. Imagine the fiery passion of Videl, with Goku's fighting spirit! That would've been cool to see. And making Pan the new lead for that series would have been better overall. It gives you a new character to work with, and something more broader to use in terms of story arcs. There doesn't have to be this regression of Goku to learn new things, because we would be learning everything about godly power through pans eyes fresh, and new. Idk, seems like waisted potential to me.
12:17 this is what really irks me about Goku.. he’s honestly a horrible friend/father.. yeah he’ll fight for you and defend you.. but like a simple fun convo or ya’ll hangin out at the beach or somethin no it’s training and eating and if you don’t do just those two things Goku doesn’t even know you exist.. HE FORGOT ABOUT HIS OWN SON GOHAN BEFORE THE ToP..
here's how i'd reunite it all if i was writing it, the last arc of super would be about Goku slowly mastering super instinct in is base form, but as time goes a dangerous side effect eventually surface... Goku becomes able subconsciously to also access every powers and attacks he has ever learned including the power boost of any transformation/technique but with their strength amplified to an unbelievable level to top it off!! but because of it being subconscious and Goku having mastered super instinct so well that it's ingrained in his brain and he becomes unable to turn it off anymore!! So he become so powerful that even a sneeze is a danger to all the universes and can be felt even by zeno, simply snapping his fingers could summon a giant unstoppable kamehameha able to destroy a whole solar system in the blink of an eye and would go on until it reaches the "walls" of his universe! At a certain point when the slightest movement has become a danger to everything, beerus decides that since he and whis are the ones responsible in a way, he's the one who has to end it, even if it means sacrificing himself in the process... and so approach goku raising his hand, preparing to launch a hakai, closing his eyes saying "I,m the one who seeked you out as my rival because of a prophecy, but i must admit, i've also grown quite fond of you Goku, you and all of your friends, and so, i'm really sorry it has to come to this.. but in order to protect, i need to do my job and destroy..." goku answer "Don't be sorry lord beerus, i'm glad i've met you and everyone else in my life, you've all helped in one way or another to always fufill all of my dreams, witch was always to find stronger and stronger opponents that would push me to get to the next level, my goal has always been to do so until i could find my ultimate limit, and today, seems like i really have!! And so, that's why, to you and all of my friends i say thank you for everything, and don't grieves for me, because even tho my spirit won't survive the hakai, i'm leaving this world as the happiest man in all of the universe and am totally at peace!!" Closing his eyes, accepting and readying for the hakai, a tear of joy leaving one eye he whisper "thank you!"... Beerus smiling start to release the hakai saying "I'm also really glad i've met you then!!"... but out of nowhere, zeno pops in front of him neutralizing the hakai with all of the angels surrounding them, enclosing goku in a weird bubble to contain his powers, zeno say in his childish manner 'no no! Sorry but i like this one a little too much, and so i've decided that we will put all of our powers together to save him AND all the rest!!!" Beerus perplexed ask "how? are you gonna keep him trapped in that bubble for the rest of eternity??"" Whis releasing a small giggle answers" No lord beerus, we've come up with a solution, but except for zeno and us the angels, it means that everyone in all of the universes who has had a contact with Goku in one way or another will have to sacrifice a little bit.. we will erase and alter the memory of goku and everyone else, even you lord beerus, of the last ten years so that no trace of his contact with us or the other universe remains! In doing so he will also forget the mastery of super instinct and his godly powers, and also insure no one can remind him about it.. the powers will still exist within himself, but as latent abbilities, that he will have to rediscover by himself over a long period of time, insuring a better mastery over all of them!!" and so zeno turns toward goku and say "I really hope that you'll really master it all one day, because i'd like it very much if you're able to come and see me to play again one day!!! And so Zeno snaps his fingers... Goku wakes up in his bedwhen the sun hit his face, a huge grin on his face has he gets up, put his gi on and start doing push up. Chichi all grogy look at him saying "Goku, do you really have to be so loud and energetic first thing in the morning??" Goku answer "oh sorry chichi, but i'm really exited, because today i'm meeting to train with vegeta at the site of our very first battle, and he's gotten so strong lately that i might even get to use super saiyan 3, so i can't wait!!!", chichi answers "i know, you haven't stopped talking about it yesterday... so just go already, i'd like to sleep a little more! look in the fridge, i've already prepared you a lunch that should last for the day!!" Goku jump happily then run to the door saying "thank you chichi, i knew there was a good reason to marry you!!!". (insert end of Z here) the end!
This is nothing new. If Super is canon, Goku getting excited for Uub makes zero sense, why he'd be excited for the reincarnation of Buu when he spent the last years fighting stronger people, Vegeta is a match for him and there's Beerus and Whis alongside other universes filled with opponents? To get any excitement out of Uub he has to train him first even with the boost he got from Moro arc that makes zero sense that he inherited that kind of power from Kid Buu that fought SSJ3 Goku unless the difference between SSJ3 and UI is not as big as we think. Then you have the Bulma de-age issue. I think it's hilarious that the DB Manga was always the unquestionable canon of Dragon Ball, then when Super arrived people have been going about how Super is canon while GT isn't, and at the end of the day GT fits like a glove on EoZ while Super needs some heavy changes to fit it to the point that now some people are saying that EoZ is non canon and Super retcons it and are now questioning what has always been the unquestionable canon of DB. I can only imagine how things will look once Daima appears and if Daima is set between Z and Super. Unless someone puts the brakes on Toriyama, DB will soon be a canon mess like DC where you have Seven Soldiers of Victory written as an elseworlds story non canon to the main timeline, then Countdown for Final Crisis happens that is setting the stage to Final Crisis in the main timeline, then Final Crisis is released in the main timeline, ignores Countdown and instead adapts Seven Soldiers of Victory as canon so dead characters are alive, alive characters are dead, people have powers that they never had, people lost powers that they had, characters die to weaknesses they no longer have, etc. Soon DB will be like that and no one has a clue about what is canon to what.
He’s hyped because uub has enough power to get Goku to ultra instinct, with full energy. And uub did it casually. Uub has insurmountable levels of power
I can give a pretty good reason as to why Goku would still be interested in Uub after all that time, for one in terms of Super, Goku is still unaware of Uub even being alive yet, if im remembering correctly, but I believe it wouldn't be goku purely looking for a good fight but he likely sees extreme potential in Uub and wants to.help that be achieved, if they redo the end of Z to integrate Super into it I thinl we'd get a Goku showing Uub what he might be able to attain in power assuming no new SSJ varients of UI/UE come out.
I think the problem was that the end of Z implied that Uub was gonna take Goku's place as protector of earth if Goku was ever gone. That certainly can't be the case now, with how strong Gohan and Piccolo are.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Goku intentions weren't to seek a great fight with Uub but to train him to be his successor. Right? I mean I know when he's ending the fight with Buu he hopes he's brought back as a good guy so they can fight again but not as a serious challenge, even Vegeta states they would need a whole planet as their arena in the last episode if they truly fought. I could be totally wrong, but that's how I interpreted the ending of Z.
Not entirely, he said he wanted that but Vegeta was they only one that knew Kakarots true purpose. He even says the goal to Uub in excitement as they are flying off just as Vegeta figured it out.
I think that would have been the best way to follow up the story and have more consistent power scaling. And it would have been cool to see Uub try to surpass Goku
@@SaiyanScholar actually there is a 10 years gap after the buu saga which would tell that in end of Z Goku becomes a god or an Angel. Daima is actually a bonus story of super itself if we notice that kibito and supreme Kai are unfused. In GT Goku went to train after defeating omega shenron, this should cross over to MUI Goku going to train with grand priest and Vegeta taking over Beerus position as a destroyer, So we are nearing the finale of Dragon ball
Super should just replace the old continuity so End of Z is just the GT version of events after the Buu Saga. Super somehow being made to not conflict with End of Z just makes the split between this and the GT timeline confusing cause it suggests GT could still happen. They haven't defined a clear branch point if they're using Super to fill the gap still. But then that would make less sense anyway cause Super alters the character development. Super has to undo some big events to make EoZ (and GT, canon or not) plausible cause why wouldn't Broly be around? Why are all the characters undertrained? The Galactic Police simply vanished? Its been too little time between Super and EoZ and we're still having stuff happen in the manga. And even if they make Super fit through a retcon then the Super timeline and GT timeline somehow touch at EoZ and then Super ends and doesn't become GT? Its simpler to just wipe End of Z off the board for the Super timeline I think.
I feel like alot of people who get truly butt hurt over the idea of Super making some things in End of Z inaccurate should read Dr. Slump while remembering that according to Toriyama and the original Red Ribbon arc, its fully canon to Dragon Ball
I hate end of Z Truks and Goten..... Uub in Moro arc showed how insane he is. Vegeta doesnt have "Surpass you kakarot" mentality anymore, he has his own thing now, he is not chasing after Goku anymore. He also grew as a character in Super so, so much.
Nobody thinks Vegeta “won” the fight in the Buu Saga. He realized Goku was stronger then gave into Babidi and powered up to SS2. He sucker punched Goku, who would’ve dog walked him as SS3 (though he’d sacrifice what little time he had to visit)
Remember that when fighting Moro. Goku lost his energy and Vegeta with the spirit fission and his ssb version was defeated by Moro only because Moro absorbed android 73 abilities and had Merus Ultra instinct, however, Vegeta was trying to get energy from the others and only got a small amount.. and with the help of the grand kaio.. Uub as a little kid was able to gather a huge amount of energy to send off to Goku.. and with the assistance of Vegeta.. Goku was able to recover his Ultra Instinct and also reduce Moro's energy. Uub was the only one capable of such amount of energy that Goku was able to create a giant avatar. Uub has the energy of the Supreme grand kaio and Majin Buu ... I don't believe this is normal mortal ki but some sort of divine ki similar to Jiren's fire ki and Gohan has also some mystic ki from a grand kai from older generations and with his beast form may be able to use other kai abilities including teleportation and magic.. I believe that this older Kai is not at the same level as the Grand Kai which is the chubby guy that sealed off Moro. Remember that this Grand Kai and the south Kai were the strongest and were absorbed by Majin Buu .. Majin Buu became fat and what he is because he absorbed the Grand Kai. Majin Buu has greater potential and has not been portrayed as it should be just yet. Uub will be probably the one able to handle black Frieza maybe even faster than Goku or Vegeta or Gohan.. and.. android 73 which still copied Merus abilities might get absorbed by Baby.... then Baby will possess Vegeta with hakai.. imagine having UI and hakai at the same time :O Baby Vegeta will be able to wreck everyone including black Frieza. This time we can have Goku as a kid with ssj 3 with ultra instinct but have him also transform into ssj 4 with ultra instinct. Have Baby-Vegeta hakai black Frieza and also possess Gohan and Goten. and then proceed with the rest of the story.. have 17 which he is almost as strong as ssjb .. have him by force do a fusion with another 17 and create a sinister evil version of 17, however, with some dna of android 73.. again.. UI.. and have Android 17 be a little stronger than even ssj 4 with UI .. and then the dragon saga.. let's see other divine techniques that are equal to Ultra instinct and Ultra ego that can compete and have a reason why that last dragon is stronger than both Vegeta and Goku and everyone else. Moro did explained that there are other techniques or doctrines besides those 2.
I always considered "End of Z" to be the prologue to GT, and since GT is non canon, then neither is End of Z. Or AU where GT happens and Super doesn't.
All I have to say is that the End Of Z will be an interesting affair whenever it gets there after Super concludes. If Super concludes. I'm very curious to see what happens eitherway.
Goku wants to train Uub based on potential I think because gohan is flaky and it takes forever for piccolo to get a new power up he’s got to find another potential fighter/sparing partner
I really want to know after showing uub multiple times in dbz as well as super has he not got any glow up or began training with the team? Pd: I’m only acknowledging the only human born with “god” ki and thus obviously the strongest born human k.o. Krillin and has proven it even in super remember when goku ask everyone to give they energy he ended up giving more by himself then the entire planet 🌎 pretty much but we just ignoring a possible god living on earth with the right training and valuable member . Js we took Yamaha to the battle for the universe with this teen with it being 10 years later and all just chilling with god powers on earth
There is a big gap in the Dragon Ball timeline. Because in the Broly movie, the flashback happened 41 years ago, two years before Goku was born, meaning that his age in the movie is 39. And in the Granola arc in the flashback, we go back 40 years, where we see that Goku is...
Goku is 3 years old, according to the statement of Jin, Goku's mother. I hope you talk about the matter and make us understand what is the reason for this gap, or is it just another forgetfulness from Toriyama as usual?
Huh? Uub doesn't have more potential than vegeta. That was never even implied. He was waiting to train with uub because he is a human and he wants to pass the torch of earth's savior to an earthling.
There is no point in looking for differences and similarities between the Super and the end of Z because it can be different "All". I figured it out long time ago. We have two Kings of All, which means we can have two twin worlds at the snap of one of Zeno's fingers. One world has gone in the direction of GT, and the other will go into stories yet unknown to us. Zeno will say goodbye to each other and will be solo kings of their "All".
only thing i don’t like about end of z is how goku leaves his family for years to train hub when he could easily instant transmission back and forth but chooses to just never come back
Whis and beerus off world and or retired. Goku absorbs UI principles into his base just like whis wanted him to do, goku wanted to find a successor which was uub every thing still lines up and it makes sense as to why uub is able to go toe to toe with base goku who should be immensely strong by this time even WITHOUT super being in the canon. frieza could be finally dead by this time too.. easy solving
ubb is nto gonig to be goku sucucosr tha shtri goju si not even 50 at end z vegeta said saiyns sofnt geyt odl tell after 80 so goku dont need a suscosor yet and if ubb we to repalce gokud b wood die wake up
Maybe “peace” is relative. Have any Super antagonists killed any humans or main characters? The Earth was in danger when it came to Moro, but no city was harmed. Unless I’m remembering wrong
There was a ten year gap from when boo died to uub So Dragon Ball super is in the right position. And it works. A lot of people don’t know this but at the end of Z Goten and trunks are 17 and 18 years old . As for the power scaling here’s a small hint that there’s gonna be more toriyama changed Gohan‘s name from final Gohan to beast Gohan, leaving it open for a potential transformation in the future. If you don’t believe me, go back in 2022 before the movie came out and look at all the things that toriyama was doing and saying
I say already to my friends there must be a person who wish that all what happens in Dragon Ball super never happens or all Person forgot what happens in super!
The point about training ub was about to give Earth it's own champion not to just get a fight... And bu never trained... So you have it ub can be more powerful than anyone else but only if he trains right
They better not have Gohan quit training again. He is in a good spot right now.
Well, I can see it happening again, but because of the retelling of the story, when super 2 comeback There is a high possibility that they will retell the story of lazy gohan and the lesson Always be prepared, At least until we see gohan go beast mode again.
I don't see it. That lesson was too painful.
Toriyama: "Oh? You like Gohan being relevant?" *pushes glasses up menacingly*
lol dont jinx it man.... 😟
would be sad if they nerd him out again. cant wait to see what toyo and toriyama do.
hyped for EOZ reboot tho. i believe in you toyotoro lol. dbs is on fire atm.
I think it will happen but it won't affect gohan . Remember that End of Z Gohan trained all those years leading up to GT. So if gohan has gone back to his studies. He will balanced that with his training regimes. By the way, someone gotta draw beast end of z gohan!
I see them keeping the overall theme of "End of Z" the same but modifying it for Super to fit in. Idk why people keep thinking they're going to strictly use the original End of Z.
i think tori will make whis n beerus cameo in the budokai watching the match and eating... lol.
soft reboot seems like what will happen tho. hyped.
It’s because DBS is set before DBZ ends. Duh! This is why when you explain what happens in a timeskip, you don’t make anything too radical otherwise this debacle happens. It has to be believable for what happens next. And the end of dragon ball Z happening in DBS post Tournament of power arc is unbelievable at best.
god ki uub > jiren.
it aint that had to believe...
😄😯
it just puts over oob even more tho.
ya and that old fat grand kai was OP.
underrated. @@kirklanyoshinaga8953
@@ssppeeaarr well we’ll never know the ending now
@@Heisenberg8100 well yeah toriyamas vision and version of it sadly...rip.
but toyo will carry it on.
It's simple, the timelines split because of beerus having the dream.
1. Everything leading up to BoG is the same. Including yo son goku and friends return!
2. Dbz and dbs timelines split when beerus wakes up prematurely. According to old kaioshin.
3. The whole zamasu/future trunks stuff, fractured the timeline even more. They went to and fro in the past/future at least 3 times. I'm wondering if merged zamasu got away in one of them?
So we getting Dragonball Super GT
lol hells ya so when is dat ss4 and shadow dragons arc coming....
😁
I mean an upscaled version of GT that compensates for the power leveling in Super would go kinda hard, not gonna lie
Maybe they will solve everything just like they did with all spidermans in the marvel universe. Maybe show alternate multiverse with uub , etc.
DB GTS.
If they just gave the Ss4 upgrades too goten and trunks or even broly since he’s since it would give each current Z fighter a specific ability too call they’re own, like having UI goku, gohan or vegeta fight against a super saiyan 4 at current level would be amazing. Most importantly Someone God Please help Krillen, just give him Kaio Ken or something and 5 senzu beans he will work it out.
Thank you
Unknown scholar for requesting this video, and Saiyan Scholar for making it and uploading it to YT
This is what I've been thinking for a bit but ESPECIALLY since the EOZ dlc in Kakarot
"There's no way Super and EOZ can coexist together in the same timeline" is what I've been thinking yet everyone I watched play it was just saying "where's ___ (insert Super idea/character/form here)" but I felt it was obvious why, they are not canon to each other (my thoughts)
I'm just glad someone's actually NOTICING AND COMMENTING ON IT
Thank you
I’m calling it now. Beerus will be taking one his infamous “multi year long naps” during this tournament.
Beerus isn't always on earth.
@Zamamasu Well, he hasn't been on earth since Moro.
I’m a firm believer that Super is a separate alternate timeline. There’s just so much that doesn’t add up with the original canon ending in 1996. Some even not matching up with the original anime. Like Goku’s characterization, and Future Trunks’s blue hair.
Also trunks had blue hair in z aswell.
They kept switching his colors multiple times you can see this in the manga
Dont care, Toriyama said alot of things out of his ass just to change it later. Plus Super writing is god awful so its about as canon as the Sequel trilogy of Star Wars, which SW fans notoriously pretend just doesnt exist. Learn what good writing and scaling is then come back @DaThickSimmer
@DaThickSimmer "quit acting like a child" "calm yourself, its not that serious"
Youre the only one taking it serious enough to throw insults and assume anger with literally no basis to the claim, kinda ironic and speaks to how poor your character is.
@@Heaven0854Trunks never had blue hair in the Z anime
@@Heaven0854Toei are the ones that switched the colors, like Frieza being lavender skinned in the anime, but pink in db broly as that was the color Toriyama always had it as.
dragon ball super doesn’t make end of z non canon.the end of z will ALWAYS be canon,it’s toriyama’s original ending and nothing can change that,if anything Dbs is non canon for contradicting the original manga
Right and I hear this a lot but lemme ask you what if Toriyama, not Toyotaro but Toriyama himself but probably in some papers online it would say that he has changed things... What then Lol?
Its called retcon
@@danteshollowedgrounds that’s a possibility,but until proven otherwise the end of z is set in stone.and IMO toyotarou does not have the authority to reton that ending
@BaithNa it's written by toriyama himself and is stated to be the canonical continuation by him. You do not decide what is canon.
@@isaaccuevas1717 Oh yeah definitely not and I agree.
In my Vision, everything in the "End of Z" can remain the same with having Beerus and Whis around this Time and Gohan still needs to become a Fighter and be a Scholar at the same Time, the thing I wanted to change is Bulma's Dialogue from 5 Years to be saying 5 or 6 Months in "Age 784" because the Son and Brief Families have been in Contact with each other throughout the past 5 Years around between "Age 779" and "Age 784" where all events of DBS have happened, so trying to change Bulma's Dialogue from Years into Months in EOZ's Time placement in "Age 784" can make much more Sense without Contradicting herself, but 1 other Thing I want to see change is Goku and Uub going to Train and Live in Beerus's Planet instead of living in Uub's Village or Dende's Lookout in GT.
Tbh I reckon Uub will be chosen to succeed Beerus and Goku will need to prepare him to eventually train with Whis. They’ll bait and switch Broly as a potential GoD but hell be too unstable.
@@TheTrveMothlord in the manga, they’re working w/ Broly on beerus planet controlling his rage. I believe Broly will replace beerus but Ubb, Gohan, piccolo, Goten&Trunks will be the new protectors of earth (pan too).
@@Broadkill54
Nah, broly is just learning control but not God ki. Uub already has God ki
I think nobody is gonna replace beers at all.
I've probably said this before, but I really appreciate the Budokai soundtrack. So nostalgic.
Bruh they honored the original ending and added a fan service fight that’s it.
I think goku’s interested in Uubs potential he doesn’t care that he isn’t that strong yet.
Super could honor it by having beerus and whis on their planet back home with Broly. But I’d rather them rewrite it really.
The bulma not seeing goku for 5 years quote is the biggest issue tbh
Re watched DBZ movies all wknd 🔥🔥🔥
8:37 Has every character who is in some way had an impact of the series except for Lunch. She was there since the OG.
I think more than anything Goku was looking for a new defender of Earth. It just worked that training him fits the selfish ambition to challenge himself constantly
I see super and end of Z being seperate timelines, where Super takes place of Deity battles while end of Z takes place of basic mortal training for 10 years, explains why they didn’t have divine power in end of Z
Another channel described Uub as someone who has a super high base level without power-ups, that's why Goku wants to fight him but also to train him as well
I think the excuse for uub is quite simple. Just say that he has potential to be a great defender of universe 7, which he obviously has power for that.
To be fair even in the dlc vegeta says for them to have a real battle they would need an entire planet.
So its likely they held back massively as to not destroy earth imo ofc.
they went all out, they just controlled the amount of excess energy from their battle enough to keep the earth in tact.
@@ZeroYami right so even if this takes place after super they aren't going 100% as I said as they have transformations beyond that.
So what are you saying?
@cbts909 Probably saying that they went all out maybe only in base so they wouldn't "risk" destroying the Earth. Even though at that point even their base could easily destroy the Earth.
@@haditahir9608 thats completely reasonable and they likely did and vegetas statement supports that. But they def had to hold back regardless.
That’s not canon.
They should have beerus tell bulma to call them when the tournament is over so they can celebrate and eat a lot of food. Seems like something his character would do
I think Goku is just more likely to be interested in Uub's potential rather than his power itself. I mean he's way too strong for Earthling standards and even if he has the same power level of Cell, he can still catch Goku's attention. That is why Goku like to train him and maybe he can surpass Moro, Broly and Jiren just through training just like how strong Frieza and Android 17 got just by training.
I don't believe uub was the only challenge for goku as it could be more to the fact that goku promised to fight buu once he got reincarnated and they finally met. So it's more on the lines of keeping a promise
Agreed
My theory, given that there are so many inconsistencies now with Super and end of Z, is that there is going to be some sort of divergence. They've already introduced multiverse and alternate timelines, there's no reason to imagine that they can't have something happen that splits the timeline again like it did with Trunks' future. That's the only way it makes any sense, the end of Z stays in it's timeline and Super continues into it's alternate timeline.
I think a movie to tie everything up as if characters current plans and etc how there living would be fine
Your voice sounds like you're making up lore with confidence
They could maybe go about it in a way that Goku is excited about the Buu reincarnation because he has fought everyone else again or atleast knew about them. Like Vegeta, Black Freiza, Cell Max even though he didn't fight him, and now Buu in Uub form. Some Uub has a good spirt now, Goku will want to take him under his wing
well oob has huge scary amount of god ki. even freak out vegeta lol. basically old fat gran kais leftovers from after moro got sealed... the firs time. that kai was massively OP. he put away a UI level villan way back then.
thats pretty epic. fat kai could have one shot buu if he wasnt already half tapped out from moro.
now its passed onto oob since he is a pure soul. like goku so he can tap into that huge reserve now. with
goku help and training. its hype!!
Beerus and Whis not being present is fine. They don't visit earth for everything.
Uub was not the strongest at the End of Z. He had the greatest POTENTIAL at the end of Z, which is why Goku decided to test and train him. His power would only grow from there.
Goku didn't need to transform at the end of Z. Presumably he mastered the technique of Ultra Instinct, but we'll see about that. He was only testing Uub, and saw no need to transform. (This is further proof Uub was not the strongest yet, reinforcing my previous point).
At 10:25 I think vegeta is just talking about being stronger than him because Goku always ends up stronger than him and he wants to be stronger even tho he won every fight against him he doesn’t want to be surpassed by him since he is supposed to be a low class warrior and vegeta is the prince of all saiyans so it’s just the lore tbh
I mean, kid Buu didn't have any apparent training yet was stronger than all past villains. They could just reuse the justification for gold freezer in resurrection F.
A few things will need to be addressed before the end of Super, and I wonder how they’re going to do it.
The issue of the gods and power scaling that comes with them needs to be resolved.
It’s shown already that Beerus isn’t really a good guy, and is hiding the secret of the Saiyan destruction. Super’s overall plot seems to be leading to the notion that the gods shouldn’t be involved in the running of creation, and that self preservation should be left to the beings of the universe. There’s good reasons put forth that the gods aren’t actually all that great. Beerus’ entire character and motivations being at odds with everyone else, Zeno’s childish demeanour vs the incredible power and lack of restraint that he holds, and there being mortals that exist that are clearly shown to rival, if not closely rival, those of the existing gods (Jiren, Broly, Gogeta, etc).
Who’s and the angels mission seems to be to being enlightenment to mortals. Whis has a few “knowing smile” moments when watching mortals, and is only subservient to Beerus as his current duty as an angel, but it clearly hiding a greater purpose.
The tournament of power was a test, that already confirmed that mortals do have what it takes to look after each other, and maintain their own balance.
So is god ki going to be removed somehow, (e.g. death of gods, wish from the Super Dragon Balls)?
Or are they still not sure what they want to do? I think personally that having Goku and Vegeta become Angel and destruction god isn’t a good idea both narratively nor concept-wise, and I hope they don’t follow the manga.
I think it’s already explained. Anyone born with an extremely high power level naturally has greater potential like gohan and broly. Uub will be naturally the most powerful born mortal, meaning his potential will be off the charts.
before the tournament of power Goku did hint at the existence of Uub, but Uub still beign a baby, would make fighting in the tournament a little dificult
I never cared about the End of Z. Always considered it part of GT (even if it's not). At this point, 2 things might happen:
1) Retcon End of Z
2) Everyone gets their memory erased, their God Ki and insanely powerful forms and techniques taken away. Beerus goes to sleep. Nothing happened.
I always thought he just had tons of potential I mean kid buu never trained he's a lot like freeza in that regard I always thought that because the whole fight against him Goku is just training him a little and uub managed to get as strong as kid buu at least that's what I thought and imagine kid buu being a starting stat I can see why Goku would be excited
Seeing goku reminisce and reflect on everything that happened in z was actually very pleasing. A little sad this dlc was very short but it was a nice treat
Super is an alternate timeline anyways so there's no problem if they want to remake the end of the Majin Boo Saga. They already remade Pan anyways🤓
the end of Z can easily tie the story in. Goten and Trunks being not strong enough could be reason enough to have them enter in the Budokai tournament, Pan training for it. Scholar Gohan now can still be strong and focus on studying at this time. Vegeta training check, Broly could be still training with whis and beerus while goku searches for uub. Uubs powers show its more than enough and the divine god kis goodness dampened kid buus power? he wasnt accustomed to use it yet. All adds up.
Gohan didn't even enter the Tournament, that's the problem.
@@jasonone8726 that can still be ok for him not to this time around as well. It literally can still play out as goku still uses SS transformations even in super. He will do the same against uub. Then probably bring him to beerus planet and fight with his full power
I couldn't care less. I'm just thankful for the good times along the way.
So i believe there are some applicable standards associated with Ultra Instinct in any of its forms... in particular, the forms used by Goku in the Tournament of Power:
Mainly, both forms of UI utilized by Goku as Whis stated are Divine Abilities that manifest during a specific state of mind akin to that of The Angels. These forms obviously Outperform SSG forms but the prerequisites for usage place too much at risk around a Planet as sensitive to disruption like Earth or Namek, but were able to be put on full display in the Null Realm
With that in mind, it makes perfect sense why Whis encourages Goku to use his own path towards his own version of UI, because it is necessary for a Mortal like Goku to act based on feelings in line with his Saiyan Traits. He want's him to use UI but in a way that doesn't cause him to take away from the ability in the midst of possible causalties.
In summary, there's no way Goku would feel it necessary to use the versions of UI that he currently has under his belt in the Tournament after the 10 Year Skip around Uub.
and that's why I prefer GT as the better continuation to DBZ
DBS isn't really a continuation to Z.
Super is an alternate timeline🤓
We're looking at a retcon in the making.
I'm not against this, I really like Beerus, Whis and DBS Broly as characters, and how they're chilling with the other saiyans on Beerus's planet.
Fully agree GT did the right thing in going after, and not trying to squeeze retcons in Z's time gaps. I honestly don't see Super and the End of Z being in the same timeline/universe.
I'd be happy to explore those time gaps, like what got Vegeta back into training/fighting after his Cell Games vow to never do it again. Heck, I'd even take Garlic Jr saga over Super. Super stains everything is touches. Nothing good came from Super. No, wait... ONE good thing came from Super: it made people appreciate GT more.
Really the only inconsistency in my mind is Bulma saying they haven't seen each other in 4 years.
GT is the better continuation. Sorry not sorry.
No need to be sorry, people who disagree are objectively wrong. Super has better fight choreography and scenes, I'll admit that, but when it comes to the actual story GT is so much better (at least in Japanese, English GT is meh)
I'm probably in the minority here but I never really liked Z's ending anyway. So if it's changed I'd be happy with it so long as it's better. I don't like Uub or the idea of him, don't like the non-saiyan EoZ designs (prefer Gohan's current design as an exception).
Can't think of one thing good about super.. specially the way toyotaro ignores Z.. dont get me wrong, I think beerus has loads of potential, but story wise.. I mean, look at our beloved krillin!
Your worried about krilllin?
@ultranecromos9915 of course I am world strongest human and gokus best mate he was the trigger for the very first super sayan transformation and in the original dragon ball series he was also the first death of one of the Zfighters. Krillin is one of the most important side characters, and he is extremely loved by true fans of the real dragon ball series.
@@relikias1 fair enough they should give krillin & yamcha the lengendary hyper human transformation, and tien the God triclops transformation. Making them androids would ruin their character progression.
Ultra instinct is one of the best anime transformations oat but u can’t fine one good thing lmao
@serchizzle5728 is it? Second only to the first time goku transformed.. and the first time gohan went super saying 2 against cell, or the first tyme you see goku going super sayian 3.. hell even goku going ssj4 in GTwas better..obviously in my opinion.. (I don't even like DBgt that much, though l think that compared to super is a masterpiece)
We have like 3 versions of Battle of Gods, I don`t understand why we can`t have multiple versions of the end of Z
We have different versions of Super. When it comes to the original manga, we can't have different versions of that.
What if Toriyama does the ultimate cockblock and there comes a point Goku and Vegeta give up their god ki and Whis erases everyone's memories of the god connected stuff of the past ten years?
Would really leave Gohan and Piccolo overpowered though 😂
I remember years ago that UA-camr Forneverworld made a theory on Whis taking away Goku and Vegeta's God power and erasing everyone's mind. I hope that the first part doesn't happen, because then we wasted almost 10 years on Super. 😂
Isn't it obvious that Super and End of Z+GT are separate timelines? Trying to fit them both into one timeline is like trying to put a square shaped brick through the star-shaped hole.
the point of training with Uub isnt that Uub is stronger than all those villains or even Goku but that he has that sort of potential, and with Toriyama's retcon about Buu being a primordial being makes sense.
>retcon
What?
End of Z will be most definitely remade
There is no reason why Super can't happen, the only issue is Pan, her age is the reason I myself find the ending of Z doesn't line in with Super. Also there is ZERO reason that Goku, Vegeta, Gohan not having the forms they have. Also, Z doesn't state how long Goku was waiting for Uub, it could be simply after 5 years of Super we have peace. You have to rmemeber that Freiza never trained his whole life and it took a Super Saiyan to bring him down. After he trained, he quickly past both Goku and Vegeta in their most powerful forms they ever reached with ease. There is no reason not to say that Uub could be trainned to one day be as powerful if not more powerful than those we've seen in Super.
Also, about the UI, again, how many times as Goku used his base forms as Super Saiyan when we know he can go right into Super Saiyan Blue. Heck, Goku even used SS3 in the Tournament of power, why? Because he can. So I don't think the lack of Goku, Gohan and Vegeta and even PIccolo using their new forms that lets' face it, never existed in Z at the time.
One thought I had, without going into the whole Z was another timeline, Maybe after whatever happens at the end of Super (we aren't there yet) Goku and gang give up their advance god like forms to never use again?
Also, you talk a heck alot about the game, I didn't realize that we 're taking the games into account of canon? I always look at the official canon as two, The manga canon and then the anime.. As far as I look at it, there is the OG Canon, which is the Manga and the Anime (Z+GT), then you have Super which follows the manga for Z canon not including the end of Z. The anime is a retelling of the manga so they are the same canon but form different points of view, which includes the movies. GT does not exist to the Super canon. So easily way to look at it is this.
I don't really see an issues, everything has multi-canons. For Anime it's always the manga as true canon as it's the source vs the anime. Think about the MCU, which is canon? The comics to the movies? See what I did there.
If you compare the Pan from end of Z to the Pan of Superheroes.
Pan from Superheroes is older so tecnically the end of Z has changed for the better!!
Huh? No, she's not older.
Great video and video suggestion 🔥
They gave uub a LOT of god ki, which can explain why he can stand up to base goku at the end of super/z. (he was far away from being serious.)
Beerus and whis could just be on their planet, freeza could just be roaming around the galaxy conquering, or might even be the new GoD maybe?
Gohan being stronger, cause of more training and beast, doesn't change that is a scholar.
It would therefore be possible to get a “like end of Z ending.”
When I learned that Super didn't take place after Z, I already knew their was no shot it would ever line up. At this point their are too many inconsistencies. And for Uub to be as powerful as Goku had hoped he would be. I have no clue if Goku would mentor the kid or just take him to Beerus's world to be trained by Whis. Maybe they will power Uub up to be the next God Of Destruction lol.
I think due to the years and the respark in god ki, uub will be reinvigorated with powers unheard due to both buu and grand kai
Honestly, here is a route they could go, to tie into Z…
Have all mortals no longer be able to tap into God Ki, nullifing SSJGod and Blue, so Goku and Begeta can no longer access their forms. The strength they acquired they can keep, but due to some circumstance, they are effectively removed from accessing God Ki, maybe something to do with Frezia Black.
Afterwards, Beerus and Whis leave, and Beerus to sleep for another 30-60 years, that’ll explain why we don’t see them in end of Z.
As for Kibito and Shin, maybe they re-fuse, so Kibito Kai is a thing again.
That said, Goku and Begeta can still access their Ultra Instinct and Ego abilities, but it’s now taxing to their mortal limitations to use.
How amazing would it have been if at the end of z, (instead of GT) we get pan as the super Saiyan God in her journey training under Whis as a super Saiyan God, making her grandpa and father proud. Because the Buu saga was Gohan's time to shine, Toriyama decided he wouldn't cut it being a hero. So, now it's time for someone to make a name for themselves as that hero like Goku, that they haven't actually been able to. Imagine the fiery passion of Videl, with Goku's fighting spirit! That would've been cool to see. And making Pan the new lead for that series would have been better overall. It gives you a new character to work with, and something more broader to use in terms of story arcs. There doesn't have to be this regression of Goku to learn new things, because we would be learning everything about godly power through pans eyes fresh, and new. Idk, seems like waisted potential to me.
12:17 this is what really irks me about Goku.. he’s honestly a horrible friend/father.. yeah he’ll fight for you and defend you.. but like a simple fun convo or ya’ll hangin out at the beach or somethin no it’s training and eating and if you don’t do just those two things Goku doesn’t even know you exist.. HE FORGOT ABOUT HIS OWN SON GOHAN BEFORE THE ToP..
I mean.. Goten is still small in the end of Z. In super hero, he is already grown up
Thats not true. Goten is a teen at the at of DBZ. Just as in the super manga now
Just delete end of Z and that's it, I don't really care about making that fit with they released these past years, just create a new ending
here's how i'd reunite it all if i was writing it, the last arc of super would be about Goku slowly mastering super instinct in is base form, but as time goes a dangerous side effect eventually surface... Goku becomes able subconsciously to also access every powers and attacks he has ever learned including the power boost of any transformation/technique but with their strength amplified to an unbelievable level to top it off!! but because of it being subconscious and Goku having mastered super instinct so well that it's ingrained in his brain and he becomes unable to turn it off anymore!! So he become so powerful that even a sneeze is a danger to all the universes and can be felt even by zeno, simply snapping his fingers could summon a giant unstoppable kamehameha able to destroy a whole solar system in the blink of an eye and would go on until it reaches the "walls" of his universe! At a certain point when the slightest movement has become a danger to everything, beerus decides that since he and whis are the ones responsible in a way, he's the one who has to end it, even if it means sacrificing himself in the process... and so approach goku raising his hand, preparing to launch a hakai, closing his eyes saying "I,m the one who seeked you out as my rival because of a prophecy, but i must admit, i've also grown quite fond of you Goku, you and all of your friends, and so, i'm really sorry it has to come to this.. but in order to protect, i need to do my job and destroy..." goku answer "Don't be sorry lord beerus, i'm glad i've met you and everyone else in my life, you've all helped in one way or another to always fufill all of my dreams, witch was always to find stronger and stronger opponents that would push me to get to the next level, my goal has always been to do so until i could find my ultimate limit, and today, seems like i really have!! And so, that's why, to you and all of my friends i say thank you for everything, and don't grieves for me, because even tho my spirit won't survive the hakai, i'm leaving this world as the happiest man in all of the universe and am totally at peace!!" Closing his eyes, accepting and readying for the hakai, a tear of joy leaving one eye he whisper "thank you!"... Beerus smiling start to release the hakai saying "I'm also really glad i've met you then!!"... but out of nowhere, zeno pops in front of him neutralizing the hakai with all of the angels surrounding them, enclosing goku in a weird bubble to contain his powers, zeno say in his childish manner 'no no! Sorry but i like this one a little too much, and so i've decided that we will put all of our powers together to save him AND all the rest!!!" Beerus perplexed ask "how? are you gonna keep him trapped in that bubble for the rest of eternity??"" Whis releasing a small giggle answers" No lord beerus, we've come up with a solution, but except for zeno and us the angels, it means that everyone in all of the universes who has had a contact with Goku in one way or another will have to sacrifice a little bit.. we will erase and alter the memory of goku and everyone else, even you lord beerus, of the last ten years so that no trace of his contact with us or the other universe remains! In doing so he will also forget the mastery of super instinct and his godly powers, and also insure no one can remind him about it.. the powers will still exist within himself, but as latent abbilities, that he will have to rediscover by himself over a long period of time, insuring a better mastery over all of them!!" and so zeno turns toward goku and say "I really hope that you'll really master it all one day, because i'd like it very much if you're able to come and see me to play again one day!!! And so Zeno snaps his fingers... Goku wakes up in his bedwhen the sun hit his face, a huge grin on his face has he gets up, put his gi on and start doing push up. Chichi all grogy look at him saying "Goku, do you really have to be so loud and energetic first thing in the morning??" Goku answer "oh sorry chichi, but i'm really exited, because today i'm meeting to train with vegeta at the site of our very first battle, and he's gotten so strong lately that i might even get to use super saiyan 3, so i can't wait!!!", chichi answers "i know, you haven't stopped talking about it yesterday... so just go already, i'd like to sleep a little more! look in the fridge, i've already prepared you a lunch that should last for the day!!" Goku jump happily then run to the door saying "thank you chichi, i knew there was a good reason to marry you!!!". (insert end of Z here) the end!
This is nothing new. If Super is canon, Goku getting excited for Uub makes zero sense, why he'd be excited for the reincarnation of Buu when he spent the last years fighting stronger people, Vegeta is a match for him and there's Beerus and Whis alongside other universes filled with opponents?
To get any excitement out of Uub he has to train him first even with the boost he got from Moro arc that makes zero sense that he inherited that kind of power from Kid Buu that fought SSJ3 Goku unless the difference between SSJ3 and UI is not as big as we think.
Then you have the Bulma de-age issue.
I think it's hilarious that the DB Manga was always the unquestionable canon of Dragon Ball, then when Super arrived people have been going about how Super is canon while GT isn't, and at the end of the day GT fits like a glove on EoZ while Super needs some heavy changes to fit it to the point that now some people are saying that EoZ is non canon and Super retcons it and are now questioning what has always been the unquestionable canon of DB.
I can only imagine how things will look once Daima appears and if Daima is set between Z and Super.
Unless someone puts the brakes on Toriyama, DB will soon be a canon mess like DC where you have Seven Soldiers of Victory written as an elseworlds story non canon to the main timeline, then Countdown for Final Crisis happens that is setting the stage to Final Crisis in the main timeline, then Final Crisis is released in the main timeline, ignores Countdown and instead adapts Seven Soldiers of Victory as canon so dead characters are alive, alive characters are dead, people have powers that they never had, people lost powers that they had, characters die to weaknesses they no longer have, etc.
Soon DB will be like that and no one has a clue about what is canon to what.
He’s hyped because uub has enough power to get Goku to ultra instinct, with full energy. And uub did it casually. Uub has insurmountable levels of power
I think the only correct choice for continuing dragon ball was to have Uub be the new main character and Goku as an old lazy mentor type.
I can give a pretty good reason as to why Goku would still be interested in Uub after all that time, for one in terms of Super, Goku is still unaware of Uub even being alive yet, if im remembering correctly, but I believe it wouldn't be goku purely looking for a good fight but he likely sees extreme potential in Uub and wants to.help that be achieved, if they redo the end of Z to integrate Super into it I thinl we'd get a Goku showing Uub what he might be able to attain in power assuming no new SSJ varients of UI/UE come out.
I think the problem was that the end of Z implied that Uub was gonna take Goku's place as protector of earth if Goku was ever gone. That certainly can't be the case now, with how strong Gohan and Piccolo are.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Goku intentions weren't to seek a great fight with Uub but to train him to be his successor. Right? I mean I know when he's ending the fight with Buu he hopes he's brought back as a good guy so they can fight again but not as a serious challenge, even Vegeta states they would need a whole planet as their arena in the last episode if they truly fought. I could be totally wrong, but that's how I interpreted the ending of Z.
Not entirely, he said he wanted that but Vegeta was they only one that knew Kakarots true purpose. He even says the goal to Uub in excitement as they are flying off just as Vegeta figured it out.
I think that would have been the best way to follow up the story and have more consistent power scaling. And it would have been cool to see Uub try to surpass Goku
@@wykellbrown6360Yh too bad gt pushed uub to the side after the baby arc. Would have been sick to see ssj4 goku vs majuub.
@@SaiyanScholar actually there is a 10 years gap after the buu saga which would tell that in end of Z Goku becomes a god or an Angel. Daima is actually a bonus story of super itself if we notice that kibito and supreme Kai are unfused. In GT Goku went to train after defeating omega shenron, this should cross over to MUI Goku going to train with grand priest and Vegeta taking over Beerus position as a destroyer, So we are nearing the finale of Dragon ball
Super should just replace the old continuity so End of Z is just the GT version of events after the Buu Saga.
Super somehow being made to not conflict with End of Z just makes the split between this and the GT timeline confusing cause it suggests GT could still happen. They haven't defined a clear branch point if they're using Super to fill the gap still. But then that would make less sense anyway cause Super alters the character development. Super has to undo some big events to make EoZ (and GT, canon or not) plausible cause why wouldn't Broly be around? Why are all the characters undertrained? The Galactic Police simply vanished? Its been too little time between Super and EoZ and we're still having stuff happen in the manga. And even if they make Super fit through a retcon then the Super timeline and GT timeline somehow touch at EoZ and then Super ends and doesn't become GT? Its simpler to just wipe End of Z off the board for the Super timeline I think.
I feel like alot of people who get truly butt hurt over the idea of Super making some things in End of Z inaccurate should read Dr. Slump while remembering that according to Toriyama and the original Red Ribbon arc, its fully canon to Dragon Ball
Yeah Vegeta won every fight with Goku in Z. It's true.
I hate end of Z Truks and Goten.....
Uub in Moro arc showed how insane he is.
Vegeta doesnt have "Surpass you kakarot" mentality anymore, he
has his own thing now, he is not chasing after Goku anymore. He also
grew as a character in Super so, so much.
Nobody thinks Vegeta “won” the fight in the Buu Saga. He realized Goku was stronger then gave into Babidi and powered up to SS2. He sucker punched Goku, who would’ve dog walked him as SS3 (though he’d sacrifice what little time he had to visit)
Remember that when fighting Moro. Goku lost his energy and Vegeta with the spirit fission and his ssb version was defeated by Moro only because Moro absorbed android 73 abilities and had Merus Ultra instinct, however, Vegeta was trying to get energy from the others and only got a small amount.. and with the help of the grand kaio.. Uub as a little kid was able to gather a huge amount of energy to send off to Goku.. and with the assistance of Vegeta.. Goku was able to recover his Ultra Instinct and also reduce Moro's energy. Uub was the only one capable of such amount of energy that Goku was able to create a giant avatar. Uub has the energy of the Supreme grand kaio and Majin Buu ... I don't believe this is normal mortal ki but some sort of divine ki similar to Jiren's fire ki and Gohan has also some mystic ki from a grand kai from older generations and with his beast form may be able to use other kai abilities including teleportation and magic.. I believe that this older Kai is not at the same level as the Grand Kai which is the chubby guy that sealed off Moro. Remember that this Grand Kai and the south Kai were the strongest and were absorbed by Majin Buu .. Majin Buu became fat and what he is because he absorbed the Grand Kai. Majin Buu has greater potential and has not been portrayed as it should be just yet. Uub will be probably the one able to handle black Frieza maybe even faster than Goku or Vegeta or Gohan.. and.. android 73 which still copied Merus abilities might get absorbed by Baby.... then Baby will possess Vegeta with hakai.. imagine having UI and hakai at the same time :O Baby Vegeta will be able to wreck everyone including black Frieza. This time we can have Goku as a kid with ssj 3 with ultra instinct but have him also transform into ssj 4 with ultra instinct. Have Baby-Vegeta hakai black Frieza and also possess Gohan and Goten. and then proceed with the rest of the story.. have 17 which he is almost as strong as ssjb .. have him by force do a fusion with another 17 and create a sinister evil version of 17, however, with some dna of android 73.. again.. UI.. and have Android 17 be a little stronger than even ssj 4 with UI .. and then the dragon saga.. let's see other divine techniques that are equal to Ultra instinct and Ultra ego that can compete and have a reason why that last dragon is stronger than both Vegeta and Goku and everyone else. Moro did explained that there are other techniques or doctrines besides those 2.
I always considered "End of Z" to be the prologue to GT, and since GT is non canon, then neither is End of Z. Or AU where GT happens and Super doesn't.
i say they just adapt end of z into what super has done just to allow it all to make sense
Ive been telling people this for years now, but there is no end of z, not anymore anyway. I have no clue why people think its still happening
Its good that they appeared at the end of buu no retcon needed
Super cannot work with the EoZ. Never could.
All I have to say is that the End Of Z will be an interesting affair whenever it gets there after Super concludes. If Super concludes. I'm very curious to see what happens eitherway.
Goku wants to train Uub based on potential I think because gohan is flaky and it takes forever for piccolo to get a new power up he’s got to find another potential fighter/sparing partner
I really want to know after showing uub multiple times in dbz as well as super has he not got any glow up or began training with the team?
Pd: I’m only acknowledging the only human born with “god” ki and thus obviously the strongest born human k.o. Krillin and has proven it even in super remember when goku ask everyone to give they energy he ended up giving more by himself then the entire planet 🌎 pretty much but we just ignoring a possible god living on earth with the right training and valuable member . Js we took Yamaha to the battle for the universe with this teen with it being 10 years later and all just chilling with god powers on earth
someone uses zalama to retcon everything what happened in super
either erasing the entire timeline or peoples memories
Unless Grand priest makes Goku and Vegeta give up their God ki or they sacrifice their God ki in some crazy battle, idk.
Bulma, if she really wants to keep looking young, should just wish for immortality/eternal beauty. She's gotten so stupid over the years.
There is a big gap in the Dragon Ball timeline. Because in the Broly movie, the flashback happened 41 years ago, two years before Goku was born, meaning that his age in the movie is 39. And in the Granola arc in the flashback, we go back 40 years, where we see that Goku is...
Goku is 3 years old, according to the statement of Jin, Goku's mother. I hope you talk about the matter and make us understand what is the reason for this gap, or is it just another forgetfulness from Toriyama as usual?
What about Vegeta ultra ego?
Huh? Uub doesn't have more potential than vegeta. That was never even implied. He was waiting to train with uub because he is a human and he wants to pass the torch of earth's savior to an earthling.
There is no point in looking for differences and similarities between the Super and the end of Z because it can be different "All". I figured it out long time ago. We have two Kings of All, which means we can have two twin worlds at the snap of one of Zeno's fingers. One world has gone in the direction of GT, and the other will go into stories yet unknown to us. Zeno will say goodbye to each other and will be solo kings of their "All".
They'll have to do something like the gods leave and stop intervening, god ki gets taken away
only thing i don’t like about end of z is how goku leaves his family for years to train hub when he could easily instant transmission back and forth but chooses to just never come back
there nothing wrong with it
Whis and beerus off world and or retired. Goku absorbs UI principles into his base just like whis wanted him to do, goku wanted to find a successor which was uub every thing still lines up and it makes sense as to why uub is able to go toe to toe with base goku who should be immensely strong by this time even WITHOUT super being in the canon. frieza could be finally dead by this time too.. easy solving
ubb is nto gonig to be goku sucucosr tha shtri goju si not even 50 at end z vegeta said saiyns sofnt geyt odl tell after 80 so goku dont need a suscosor yet and if ubb we to repalce gokud b wood die wake up
Uub is to be the new protector of the earth not a rival really but never doubt the a$$ pull
Maybe “peace” is relative. Have any Super antagonists killed any humans or main characters? The Earth was in danger when it came to Moro, but no city was harmed. Unless I’m remembering wrong
They will just add some stuff and retcon it a bit
I've always disliked the end of Z and uub I had wanted Super to come after Z
they could just say goku is intrested in uub since he has alot of potential
There was a ten year gap from when boo died to uub So Dragon Ball super is in the right position. And it works. A lot of people don’t know this but at the end of Z Goten and trunks are 17 and 18 years old . As for the power scaling here’s a small hint that there’s gonna be more toriyama changed Gohan‘s name from final Gohan to beast Gohan, leaving it open for a potential transformation in the future. If you don’t believe me, go back in 2022 before the movie came out and look at all the things that toriyama was doing and saying
Uub has god ki so it still works
I say already to my friends there must be a person who wish that all what happens in Dragon Ball super never happens or all Person forgot what happens in super!
The point about training ub was about to give Earth it's own champion not to just get a fight... And bu never trained...
So you have it ub can be more powerful than anyone else but only if he trains right
We can recotn the end of z It would work