1:21:04 With each trigger, Bloodstone gives x2, Blueprint gives another x2, and polychrome gives x1.5. That's a total of 2*2*1.5 = x6 per trigger. (Newly buffed) Hanging Chad triggers a card 2 times (which is not multiplied by Hack or red seal), for a total of 6*6 = x36. I'm here to say that that Twitch chatter was right.
Yes but if I counted correctly which I’m not sure I did he had ten uncommon jokers so baseball card would be x1.5^10 which equals 57.6650390625 so it was better
@@TheSniped117 retriggers do not multiply other retriggers (like hanging chad would not add extra retriggers due to red seal), so hanging chad only adds 2 retriggers which is where the original commenter got the x36 mult from
This is an a times b situation. chips actually do matter, as does base(added during scoring) mult, because all of the Xmult will be doubling these base values. So, even Wee Joker in the end was effectively a 1.2x mult, because 2000 chips is 20% of 10,000 chips, which is what the chips are at after all the card scoring is done. Wee Joker's value is greatly overshadowed by all the extra chips given by hiker, in this situation. Without hiker value, it would have only been perhaps 2000 chips, and not 10000 chips, and, in that case wee joker would be effectively a 2x mult. Throughout this whole ride, Wee Joker was at the best moments kinda like a 6x mult, plus or minus. Fantabulous run, excellent joker RNG for real. Hiker putting in the work. For squeezing out the Most toward the very end, a Showman is what one needs. You carry the showman and look for one extra re-trigger, copy card, or Idol or bloodstone. one of those would add about +e8 or so... someone check me on that. You do this while your blinds are still low enough that you can make them while holding the showman
You sound knowledgeable good sir, he was saying dirch yorick and keep wee joker. How is that sense? Wasnt it like 16 mult? So if you coppied it it would have been 16×16×16?
@@jeremyphillips3087 He ditched yorick because at most, it might provide 16X that is copied twice by brainstorm + blueprint, which is only 16^3 or 4096X. Hack, red-seal, dusk and brainstorm each make each card score an additional time, and each time each card scores, polychrome + Idol + Bloodstone trigger. Plus, bloodstone is triggering one more time due to blueprint. So, each time that happens, it's 1.5X * 2X * 2X * 2x, or 12X. so Each Card is applying 12X five times, which is 12^5 or 248,000X. This happens five times, because there are five cards, so it's 248,000^5, or, about 9e26. (I'm just using my calculator to compute these...) 16X is only moving the decimal 1.6 spaces, it still would just be like 5e28. The copy cards are way more effective when copying retriggers or 2x-when-retriggered than on a 16X that is only computed once. And each extra copy card you can throw onto that pile, it will increase by another factor of like e8
Pre-buff Yorick was a x5 right? So with 23 full 5 card discards, they reach x5 at the exact same time, but now post-buff Yorick can reach x2, the minimum considered "online" in 5 discards minimum aka 2 rounds instead of waiting nearly 8 rounds for a joker to come online at which point you might have already lost, not to mention the fact that new Yorick scales BEYOND the 5x mult.
I think in the hypothetical scenario you do 23 discards of 5, Yorick is actually better since it starts at x1 by base. So you could get a x6 Yorick after 23, 5 card discards.
@@WD_Gaster66 oh that's true I counted wrong lmao okay yeah it's a straight buff and not just a rework then. That's silly but also I like it. You only need to discard an average of 4 cards per discard to keep pace with original Yorick, more cards per discard outpaces it, it scales the entire time instead of just once, and has higher potential.
so far, from what i’ve played and seen, i’m winning just as often in every stake as i was before despite the changes, and im having more fun because the runs more consistently get off the ground but they consistently win the same amount as before. essentially the game is more rewarding to play, but takes more time, and is awesome this update is fantastic honestly
Bloodstone being 1 in 2 means that the probability increasing card goes nuts with it, had a great run that got way further than I've ever gotten built around that core. I like a lot of the changes in the new patch, although I'm not sure how I feel about the game being overall way easier than the launch patch - it seems like there might need to be additional difficulties that re-nerf the jokers being free, investment tag being 25 instead of 15 and so on. Joker balance changes seem mostly correct, from my experience. I'm a little sad that four of a kind jokers have been completely reworked to be 2 pair, since 4 of a kind is already an undersupported suit, but those jokers were pretty hard to use. Overall, high-quality patch this close to release is exciting, and I think I only have issues with it because I have the base game to compare to.
I made an MS Paint mock-up of how to arrange the copies and came to the conclusion that, with two full retrigger jokers, two x2 on trigger jokers, two copy jokers, AND the red seals. The generally correct setup would be to copy the x2s with both copy jokers. That way, cards trigger 4 (original, hack, dusk, seal) times and for each one we get 4 (blood, idol, copy, copy) triggers of x2s, giving us 4x4=16 x2 triggers per card and 80 per hand. Were we to copy one of the retriggers and one of the x2s, it would become 5 (original, hack, dusk, seal, copy) times 3 (blood, idol, copy) with 15 triggers per card and 75 per hand. This seems negligible but does give us a deificit of 5 fewer x2s per hand. Copying both retriggers drops us to a staggering 6 (original, hack, dusk, seal, copy, copy) times 2 (blood, idol), leaving us at 12 x2s per card, and only 60 per hand. What if we add the glass cards, though? I'm happy to let you know that, even with glass cards, copying both x2s is still the best option by exactly 2 triggers. Making the last 3 cards glass gives us additional x2s to the amount of retriggers per card. You'd think you'd wanna maximize retriggers in that case but let's math it out. Copying both retriggers gives us 6 additional x2s per card, multiply this by 3 for each glass and we get 18 additonal x2s. Cool, that's 78 x2s. But that just misses the quad x2s by 2 triggers. Copying one of each gives us 5 additional x2s per glass, so 15. Adding those to our count of 75 we are now at 90 x2s. That's pretty neat. But by copying both x2s we get 4x3 x2s from the glass added to the 80 we already had, which leaves us at 92. And at this point in the game, two addtional triggers of x2s is worth a decent amount. And with all of that considered, I'm pretty sure those three glass cards would've been enough to get you to e37 had you copied the x2s over the retriggers. This is all based on my understanding of how the game would handle all of this information so if I am wrong about any of this, please let me know. Of course, all of this is hindsight (though I was hoping you'd experiment with the copy setup a little more while you were safe to do so but you never went for the x2 double copy). The reason I'm sharing all of this is because I was curious about the optimal setup and WHY it would be the optimal setup and felt like, after all of that, I should share my findings.
I think that it is still a little more complicated than that because the card themselves were polychrome and that benefits the retrigger jokers. It's only a x1,5 but 1,5^5 (if à copy joker copies à retrigger effect) is still larger than the two ×2's difference that you mentionned. Nevertheless, i still think he should have expirimented more while he was safe ;)
@@vadimjamar8589 God damn it, I forgot about the polychrome. It was already time for me to go to sleep when I started that and I only remembered the red seals when I had already finished going over that once. I had already started the comment when I remembered the seals lmao. But since Poly only triggers on each retrigger we can kinda just throw the mult into a calculator, which gave me 5.447e30 for double retrigger, 2.938e33 for one each, and 1.547e33 for double 2xs. (I just used base mult for lv27 flush 5, which is 94, to keep it simple.) Conclusion, now considering the polys, he definitely should've experimented more because the only way for him to fail was to only copy the retriggers, which makes the end even more tragic.
It was better to split 1 and 1 in this case. Here's how to calculate this for any hand, double checked with the Balatro calculator 1. Count how many Idols and triggers you have without blueprints. 2 and 4 in this case as you said. 2. Find how much each trigger is worth in base 2. Glass polychrome: 2^2 * 2 * 1.5 = 2^3 * 2^log2(1.5) = 2^3 * 2^0.584 = 2^3.584 Similarly each lucky polychrome card trigger is 2^2.584. If it's a mixed hand you'll need to average it. 3 glass polychrome and 2 lucky polychrome: (2^3.584)^3 * (2^2.584)^2 = 2^10.752 * 2^5.168 = 2^15.92 = (2^3.184)^5 If only some of them have red seals, I assume you'll want to average out the retrigger amount too. 3. Each card will score (2^3.184)^4. Every blueprint on an Idol adds 1 to the inner exponent, and every retrigger copy adds 1 to the outer exponent. When people say you want to even out the amount of retriggers and Idols, these exponents are the 2 numbers they're talking about. With 2 blueprints the best you can do here is split 1 and 1 for (2^4.184)^5. More examples: 5 glass poly score 2^3.584 for each trigger, so with 4 triggers it's still best to split evenly. With 3 lucky polychromes and 2 glass polychrome, each trigger is 2^2.984, so at that point it is better to copy Idol twice. Other considerations I've seen flying around: 1. +20 mult from lucky card - insignificant and irrelevant to retriggers. It's X2 at best if your hand is level 1 and it triggers first try. 2. Hiker - again, retriggering it will be less than X2, that's a single Idol trigger. 3. Pants - most important piece, streamer so noob for not scaling them dot dot dot
I feel like this wasn’t the best intro to Balatro I could’ve found, but I think I figured it out by the end. This video was very enjoyable to watch, even to someone who had absolutely no idea what was going on.
Congrats on the high score Roffle, that was a great run to watch live! I didn’t know at the time somebody programmed a balatro calculator, but excel works just fine.
Hmmm I have been challenged by roffle saying the numbers are too big to work with for human minds. Okay so the trick here is gonna be some calc b= number of bloodstone/idol jokers r= number of retrigger jokers times_mult = ((1.5)(2)^(5b))^(10+5r) = ((3)^((5b)(10+5r)) = (3)^((25)(b)(2+r)) So we just need to maximize b(2+r) b+r = 5 (or 6 on last hand) So let's begin by calculating for hands 1 & 2 (not that they matter but might as well) b = 5 -r f(r) = (5 - r)(2 + r) = 10 +3r -r^2 f'(r) = 3-2r the absolute maxima is at r = 3/2 Hmmm not nice since we can't have half a joker. but it tells us that if r is 1 or 2 we get the same answer (a property of quadratics) times mult will equal 3^300 Now for we have to do the math for the final hand b+r = 6 b = 6 - r f(r) = (6-r)(2+r) = 12 + 4r - r^2 f'(r) = 4 - 2r the absolute maxima is at r = 2 So on the dusk round we only want 2 retrigger jokers, dusk and hack, both copy effects should be on Bloodstone or Idol. in total it ends up at times_mult = 3^400 Might have messed up somewhere in the math, it would be having to do with the polychrome if I did. But if I did this is a good exercise for the viewer to check my work And the math will change with glass being in the hand too. That I genuinely just don't care to work out.
Would you believe me that it's actually a compliment when I say I use your videos to fall asleep to? I watch them at work, but also when I need to fight my decades-long insomnia (works rather well!) It's this perfect balance of interesting to keep me focused so my mind doesn't end up in infinite loops of fixation, while being repetitive and not overstimulating as to keep me awake.
The sad part is that the chatter at the end was wrong. Had he kept the joker arrangement as is, we would have scored 6 x e37 clearing the blind and collecting another 10 negatives.
You just gotta think of triggers as your chips, and the multiplicative jokers as your mult, bloodstone and idle provide 8 mult and hack brainstorm and blueprint provide chips (along with the initial trigger) being 4 chips, if you took blueprint and put in on bloodstone then you have 12 mult and 3 chips… being 36 where-as your first strat gave only 32
I think a tier list video for Negative Utility Jokers would be cool. I'd like to see where they end up once the downside of tying up space without providing Chips or a Multiplier is taken out of the equation. Also, it would've been a power move to single out one of those Polychrome 3s and just keep hitting it with Strength until it rolls back into a 2. Probably not that big of a deal, but still a power move. An Endless B mode that makes the Blinds not scale anywhere close to as hard but also routinely donkey punches your multiplier so that the game can last longer would be really cool.
In general, having an even distribution of retriggers vs 2x's is always the way, for example: 3x2 is 6 (3x2 here being used to represent amount of retriggers and 2x's) making it 4x2 (8) vs 3x3 (9) (adding 1 to either side) shows easily that evening it out is better so 3x3 is better, aka even distribution is king Also I'm pretty sure at the end there, blueprint should have stayed on Idol
omg what a run! I just have a question: why not putting more steel cards? I am total amateur compared with you guys, but why not using the discards more often ? what's the point of having ONLY 3 of hearts with the red marks, if you can play only 5 cards a time with a hand holding 7 cards? I get it's for consistency, but out of 23 cards, it makes sense to have 4-5 steel cards in the deck, or I'm missing something? statistically, with 5 discards and so few cards in the deck, you are almost guaranteed to play every hand with 5 scoring cards and 2 steel cards in hand. Also, why not buy the wheel every single time? with the whoops joker the chances are not too bad. Also why the popcorn at the end? Or these changes would be anyway too marginal?
For some reason watching this video made my very next run similar in jokers I got, Hack, Blueprint, Oops all 6 even Yorick, I managed to unlock both Satellite and the extra -1 Ante, awesome run from you and mine
So post experimental build. I have gone from bashing my head against wall on even the red deck on base stake to actually winning rounds. Before the experimental change I had two wins in nearly 30 hours of play time. I have gotten four or five wins in about 8 hours with the experimental update. There might be some stuff that needs to get tuned back like maybe it only gives you a buffoon pack if there isn't already one in the first shop because I've had a couple of rounds where I get two packs and I just bought both of them because why not? There is still some RNG available but now the game's not in a state where I feel like I need to rage reset to get a good first shop. I've played some pretty horrible Jokers off of my first buffoon pack to a win in the experimental update and that feels better than repeatedly restarting until I get a good one
@@rajkanishuyou read that right. I'm still trying to figure out what exactly was going wrong and my only hunch at this point is that it was an odd interaction between the RNG logic and proton since I play on Linux. I'm not usually that bad at these games.
I find the new gold stake much harder to get started, since all the new modifier on jokers really suck.... but once I get the run going, it's insanely easier with how much you can abuse packs to get your econ good, then fish for jokers you want. I failed my first bunch of runs, then won 5 in a couple hours.
Amazing, only mistaje whole run was you got an Eris in the pack right after Observatory, but used another Tarot instead of waiting til Fool to get it up top, but whocares?
Always remember: Retriggers are always additive, never multiplicative. Double-copied Hack on a red seal 3 will proc that card 5 times; Hanging Chad makes it 7 times. With a Flush Five of this, the difference between Hanging Chad and not Hanging Chad will be 27 procs versus 25 procs; thus, not very good.
Everybody out here saying what scores highest or what's best, and I'm sitting here like the science lab golden retriever meme. "I have no idea what I'm doing".
I think copying the hack is better since if you retrigger the card you retrigger the totem, but if its the last hand either the dusk or the hack will do the same thing
Technicaly deleting mroe cards helps with hiker scaling - if you keep hiting the same 3's with it they gonna give alot chips - prob outscaling wee joker completly
What if, when you have 19jokers and one slot free, you try to have the joker that allow you to get a 2nd time the same card so you can get to blue print ?
with red seal and hack for double retrigger, a double-copied bloodstone would proc 3 times per card, with 15 effective cards, being 45 total activations for 3.5e13 times mult from only bloodstone
Madness carried me. Got it at the first shop. Made it polycrhome never bought a joker until ante 8. All jupiter cards. Got like level 16 flush with a x20 mult from madness
ditching Dusk for Idol instead of Lucky Cat might've been smarter, but i feel like finding out would require a lot of math and i dont feel like doing that also this is a 2 month old video so it hardly even matters
If Localthunk sees this, I think the joker tags giving free stuff is too much. I think making them cheaper (like making them cost 3$ instead of free) would balance it. And make it so that that rental effect is removed after like 3 rounds like an actual rental so it isn’t a strain to the amount of cash you get each round.
i think it's fine. This only happens if you are stockpiling doubletags on the anaglyph deck, and it relies heavily on hitting a negative tag (which roffle basically didnt before going endless) and the jokers being good (which none of them were) on a higher stake run there's a lot of inbuilt mechanics that'll prevent you from being this greedy with doubletags (5 joker slots, eternals, perish tag etc) so it wouldnt be able to gamebreak in higher difficulties either
yall get way too nerf happy when a deck does the specific thing it can only do well sorry if that sounds mean it's not meant to be, just like the deck's going along doing it's thing :D
I feel like the rental being 3$ forever is ok, if it was only for 3 or even 5 more rounds the rental tag would be close to a straight buff. If you find a great joker that has rental tag, since it's 1$ it's easy to buy and makes you strong enough for the next few rounds to win in one hand, thus counterbalancing the rental effect. Your economy might even be better with the saved money from the 1$ price that turns into benefit. So now after 3-4 rounds you paid the full price of the joker, and have likely more money that you would if it wasn't rental. If the rental effect stops there the gold stake basically becomes a joke, being easier than the orange stake. Also it's way more interesting for deck building compared to a -1 hand size that is unfun and too punishing. But I'm pretty sure everyone agrees on that part. I don't know for sure about the free jokers but at least it gives a better reason to skip which help mainly in run starts, afterwards in mid-late game, negative being free or not is not a concern since you have your economy going. So I'd say ut's not really broken since it's only useful at the start which is okay So yeah TL:DR I feel like the rental is better like it is rn. @@adumbfurry7036
The entire point of rental is that it's a constant drain on your money. Agree with the joker skip tags though; they could definitely use a nerf. One idea would be to make the joker full cost, but not use up the tag unless the joker is bought? That might also be too powerful
At the end, with red seal, hack, dusk and brain storm you had 25 triggers of cards, with 2×2×2 for bloodstone, idol and blueprint. Making a total of 8²⁵≈3,7e²² mult for these jokers. If you had used the brainstorm to copy either idol or bloodstone, you would have gotten 5 less trigger, but 2 times more mult so (8×2)^(25-5)=16²⁰≈1,2e²⁴ So you still had a way to get stronger Just sayin 🙄
I really hope the dev can make this accessible on phones or tablets. This is the perfect game to play when you have no internet. And not everyone is gonna take their consoles or pc or switches out places. Every one takes their phones though. I don’t think the price should be $15 on phone. If the dev truly wants to get his product out there to the world. $5 Every dollar the amount of customers drops exponentially. The thing about a low price like that too is he might make the same amount if he were to sell it for $15. But he’d have 3x the people playing it. Which means 3x the amount of people talking about it. I truly think this would be one of the greatest phone games
it actually made me mad how many times he used the wheel on 2 in 4 to hit when he could've copied the oops all sixes to get 4 in 4 for it to hit it Edit: nvm I'm stupid and it does not work
On top of missing Hiker value which outpaced Wee Joker long term it's just incorrect that 10k chips would have helped prolong the run. My final hand scored ~13k chips. An additional 10k chips would not have even doubled my score in a situation where I scored less than 1% of the requirement for the blind.
Bullshit lol. Maybe think before you complain? He won early in the video, before he got ANY USE OUT OF HIS NEGATIVE TAGS. He just got a good joker combo, without the help of the deck. He would have been better off on any other deck lol, so how about not spreading false complaints?
Oh I didn’t even consider how the negative jokers being free from the charm tag would affect Anaglyph deck, wow
I think that's called the "let's get some bullshit Gold Stickers on jokers" deck now
@@MewtwoStruckBackmy thoughts exactly
Yurrrrrh@@MewtwoStruckBack
@@MewtwoStruckBack no one is forcing you to play on gold stake dawg
@@VivBrodockfor gold stickers you have to
1:21:04 With each trigger, Bloodstone gives x2, Blueprint gives another x2, and polychrome gives x1.5. That's a total of 2*2*1.5 = x6 per trigger.
(Newly buffed) Hanging Chad triggers a card 2 times (which is not multiplied by Hack or red seal), for a total of 6*6 = x36.
I'm here to say that that Twitch chatter was right.
Yes but if I counted correctly which I’m not sure I did he had ten uncommon jokers so baseball card would be x1.5^10 which equals 57.6650390625 so it was better
@user-xx9ik7tg4e it's x6 per trigger and their are 20 triggers...
@@TheSniped117 retriggers do not multiply other retriggers (like hanging chad would not add extra retriggers due to red seal), so hanging chad only adds 2 retriggers which is where the original commenter got the x36 mult from
@inderdeepsingh5498 That's dumb imo if a card says it retriggers a card then why is it ignoring the cards modifiers?
Because all re-triggers are additive. Think of red seal as +1 retrigger, chad as +2, sock and buskin as +1, etc.@@TheSniped117
"We're approaching the point where we may actually lose" and the motherfuckin video still got more than *THIRTY MINUTES LEFT*
This is an a times b situation.
chips actually do matter, as does base(added during scoring) mult, because all of the Xmult will be doubling these base values.
So, even Wee Joker in the end was effectively a 1.2x mult, because 2000 chips is 20% of 10,000 chips, which is what the chips are at after all the card scoring is done.
Wee Joker's value is greatly overshadowed by all the extra chips given by hiker, in this situation. Without hiker value, it would have only been perhaps 2000 chips, and not 10000 chips, and, in that case wee joker would be effectively a 2x mult.
Throughout this whole ride, Wee Joker was at the best moments kinda like a 6x mult, plus or minus.
Fantabulous run, excellent joker RNG for real. Hiker putting in the work.
For squeezing out the Most toward the very end, a Showman is what one needs. You carry the showman and look for one extra re-trigger, copy card, or Idol or bloodstone. one of those would add about +e8 or so... someone check me on that. You do this while your blinds are still low enough that you can make them while holding the showman
You sound knowledgeable good sir, he was saying dirch yorick and keep wee joker. How is that sense? Wasnt it like 16 mult? So if you coppied it it would have been 16×16×16?
@@jeremyphillips3087Of course you keep wee joker, wee joker is negative :)
@@Oxxyjoe it wasn't earlier
@@jeremyphillips3087 He ditched yorick because at most, it might provide 16X that is copied twice by brainstorm + blueprint, which is only 16^3 or 4096X.
Hack, red-seal, dusk and brainstorm each make each card score an additional time, and each time each card scores, polychrome + Idol + Bloodstone trigger. Plus, bloodstone is triggering one more time due to blueprint. So, each time that happens, it's 1.5X * 2X * 2X * 2x, or 12X. so Each Card is applying 12X five times, which is 12^5 or 248,000X.
This happens five times, because there are five cards, so it's 248,000^5, or, about 9e26. (I'm just using my calculator to compute these...)
16X is only moving the decimal 1.6 spaces, it still would just be like 5e28. The copy cards are way more effective when copying retriggers or 2x-when-retriggered than on a 16X that is only computed once. And each extra copy card you can throw onto that pile, it will increase by another factor of like e8
@@jeremyphillips3087 Oh. I missed that then. Yeah, Yorick would have been a great card to keep If it had gotten the negative.
Pre-buff Yorick was a x5 right? So with 23 full 5 card discards, they reach x5 at the exact same time, but now post-buff Yorick can reach x2, the minimum considered "online" in 5 discards minimum aka 2 rounds instead of waiting nearly 8 rounds for a joker to come online at which point you might have already lost, not to mention the fact that new Yorick scales BEYOND the 5x mult.
but there is not guarantee that ur discarding 5 per round. I think that was the only "nerf" to yorick, but it is still a huge buff.
I think in the hypothetical scenario you do 23 discards of 5, Yorick is actually better since it starts at x1 by base. So you could get a x6 Yorick after 23, 5 card discards.
@@WD_Gaster66 oh that's true I counted wrong lmao okay yeah it's a straight buff and not just a rework then. That's silly but also I like it. You only need to discard an average of 4 cards per discard to keep pace with original Yorick, more cards per discard outpaces it, it scales the entire time instead of just once, and has higher potential.
@@shybandit521 It's just really good to be able to get a 2x or 3x in a couple rounds, instead of waiting almost 3 full antes for it do anything
@@WD_Gaster66 And it can keep on scaling instead of falling behind later on when some scaling Jokers can get above 5x mult.
I'm glad you got that pair of pants; really saved the run there.
My favorite part of this run was the electric slide of all the jokers triggering at the end of each hand. Very satisfying
I mean this in the nicest way possible you are my "im having trouble sleeping and you have the vibe to help me rest" youtuber
1:25:20 o7 to the negative ice cream finally melted after all that neglect lol
I can say with absolute certainty that after watching a few balantro games that I have no idea what is even happening but it's entertaining
Numbers go brrrrr
so far, from what i’ve played and seen, i’m winning just as often in every stake as i was before despite the changes, and im having more fun because the runs more consistently get off the ground but they consistently win the same amount as before. essentially the game is more rewarding to play, but takes more time, and is awesome this update is fantastic honestly
Bloodstone being 1 in 2 means that the probability increasing card goes nuts with it, had a great run that got way further than I've ever gotten built around that core. I like a lot of the changes in the new patch, although I'm not sure how I feel about the game being overall way easier than the launch patch - it seems like there might need to be additional difficulties that re-nerf the jokers being free, investment tag being 25 instead of 15 and so on. Joker balance changes seem mostly correct, from my experience. I'm a little sad that four of a kind jokers have been completely reworked to be 2 pair, since 4 of a kind is already an undersupported suit, but those jokers were pretty hard to use.
Overall, high-quality patch this close to release is exciting, and I think I only have issues with it because I have the base game to compare to.
Maybe have an option to pick the patch difficulty
Tbh before patch I've just unlocked challenge and I'm only on red to green stake
CfjlmKmpo
I made an MS Paint mock-up of how to arrange the copies and came to the conclusion that, with two full retrigger jokers, two x2 on trigger jokers, two copy jokers, AND the red seals. The generally correct setup would be to copy the x2s with both copy jokers. That way, cards trigger 4 (original, hack, dusk, seal) times and for each one we get 4 (blood, idol, copy, copy) triggers of x2s, giving us 4x4=16 x2 triggers per card and 80 per hand. Were we to copy one of the retriggers and one of the x2s, it would become 5 (original, hack, dusk, seal, copy) times 3 (blood, idol, copy) with 15 triggers per card and 75 per hand. This seems negligible but does give us a deificit of 5 fewer x2s per hand. Copying both retriggers drops us to a staggering 6 (original, hack, dusk, seal, copy, copy) times 2 (blood, idol), leaving us at 12 x2s per card, and only 60 per hand.
What if we add the glass cards, though? I'm happy to let you know that, even with glass cards, copying both x2s is still the best option by exactly 2 triggers. Making the last 3 cards glass gives us additional x2s to the amount of retriggers per card. You'd think you'd wanna maximize retriggers in that case but let's math it out. Copying both retriggers gives us 6 additional x2s per card, multiply this by 3 for each glass and we get 18 additonal x2s. Cool, that's 78 x2s. But that just misses the quad x2s by 2 triggers. Copying one of each gives us 5 additional x2s per glass, so 15. Adding those to our count of 75 we are now at 90 x2s. That's pretty neat. But by copying both x2s we get 4x3 x2s from the glass added to the 80 we already had, which leaves us at 92. And at this point in the game, two addtional triggers of x2s is worth a decent amount.
And with all of that considered, I'm pretty sure those three glass cards would've been enough to get you to e37 had you copied the x2s over the retriggers.
This is all based on my understanding of how the game would handle all of this information so if I am wrong about any of this, please let me know. Of course, all of this is hindsight (though I was hoping you'd experiment with the copy setup a little more while you were safe to do so but you never went for the x2 double copy). The reason I'm sharing all of this is because I was curious about the optimal setup and WHY it would be the optimal setup and felt like, after all of that, I should share my findings.
I think that it is still a little more complicated than that because the card themselves were polychrome and that benefits the retrigger jokers. It's only a x1,5 but 1,5^5 (if à copy joker copies à retrigger effect) is still larger than the two ×2's difference that you mentionned.
Nevertheless, i still think he should have expirimented more while he was safe ;)
@@vadimjamar8589 God damn it, I forgot about the polychrome. It was already time for me to go to sleep when I started that and I only remembered the red seals when I had already finished going over that once. I had already started the comment when I remembered the seals lmao.
But since Poly only triggers on each retrigger we can kinda just throw the mult into a calculator, which gave me 5.447e30 for double retrigger, 2.938e33 for one each, and 1.547e33 for double 2xs. (I just used base mult for lv27 flush 5, which is 94, to keep it simple.)
Conclusion, now considering the polys, he definitely should've experimented more because the only way for him to fail was to only copy the retriggers, which makes the end even more tragic.
It was better to split 1 and 1 in this case. Here's how to calculate this for any hand, double checked with the Balatro calculator
1. Count how many Idols and triggers you have without blueprints. 2 and 4 in this case as you said.
2. Find how much each trigger is worth in base 2. Glass polychrome:
2^2 * 2 * 1.5 =
2^3 * 2^log2(1.5) =
2^3 * 2^0.584 =
2^3.584
Similarly each lucky polychrome card trigger is 2^2.584.
If it's a mixed hand you'll need to average it. 3 glass polychrome and 2 lucky polychrome:
(2^3.584)^3 * (2^2.584)^2 =
2^10.752 * 2^5.168 =
2^15.92 =
(2^3.184)^5
If only some of them have red seals, I assume you'll want to average out the retrigger amount too.
3. Each card will score (2^3.184)^4. Every blueprint on an Idol adds 1 to the inner exponent, and every retrigger copy adds 1 to the outer exponent. When people say you want to even out the amount of retriggers and Idols, these exponents are the 2 numbers they're talking about. With 2 blueprints the best you can do here is split 1 and 1 for (2^4.184)^5.
More examples: 5 glass poly score 2^3.584 for each trigger, so with 4 triggers it's still best to split evenly.
With 3 lucky polychromes and 2 glass polychrome, each trigger is 2^2.984, so at that point it is better to copy Idol twice.
Other considerations I've seen flying around:
1. +20 mult from lucky card - insignificant and irrelevant to retriggers. It's X2 at best if your hand is level 1 and it triggers first try.
2. Hiker - again, retriggering it will be less than X2, that's a single Idol trigger.
3. Pants - most important piece, streamer so noob for not scaling them dot dot dot
I feel like this wasn’t the best intro to Balatro I could’ve found, but I think I figured it out by the end. This video was very enjoyable to watch, even to someone who had absolutely no idea what was going on.
Congrats on the high score Roffle, that was a great run to watch live! I didn’t know at the time somebody programmed a balatro calculator, but excel works just fine.
Hmmm I have been challenged by roffle saying the numbers are too big to work with for human minds.
Okay so the trick here is gonna be some calc
b= number of bloodstone/idol jokers
r= number of retrigger jokers
times_mult = ((1.5)(2)^(5b))^(10+5r)
= ((3)^((5b)(10+5r))
= (3)^((25)(b)(2+r))
So we just need to maximize b(2+r)
b+r = 5 (or 6 on last hand)
So let's begin by calculating for hands 1 & 2 (not that they matter but might as well)
b = 5 -r
f(r) = (5 - r)(2 + r)
= 10 +3r -r^2
f'(r) = 3-2r
the absolute maxima is at r = 3/2
Hmmm not nice since we can't have half a joker. but it tells us that if r is 1 or 2 we get the same answer (a property of quadratics)
times mult will equal 3^300
Now for we have to do the math for the final hand
b+r = 6
b = 6 - r
f(r) = (6-r)(2+r)
= 12 + 4r - r^2
f'(r) = 4 - 2r
the absolute maxima is at r = 2
So on the dusk round we only want 2 retrigger jokers, dusk and hack, both copy effects should be on Bloodstone or Idol.
in total it ends up at
times_mult = 3^400
Might have messed up somewhere in the math, it would be having to do with the polychrome if I did.
But if I did this is a good exercise for the viewer to check my work
And the math will change with glass being in the hand too. That I genuinely just don't care to work out.
The channel I watch the most alongside Roffle 😊
They should collab sometimes
Roffle is my favorite Balatro creator! (Still watch the Hearthstone to help the viewer numbers on that side channel)
you shouldve done the same strategy on a 2 instead of a 3 for infinite wee joker scaling as well
1:27:50 having one more trigger on heartstone would probably be better.
After idol I'm not sure anymore.
Would you believe me that it's actually a compliment when I say I use your videos to fall asleep to? I watch them at work, but also when I need to fight my decades-long insomnia (works rather well!)
It's this perfect balance of interesting to keep me focused so my mind doesn't end up in infinite loops of fixation, while being repetitive and not overstimulating as to keep me awake.
The sad part is that the chatter at the end was wrong.
Had he kept the joker arrangement as is, we would have scored 6 x e37 clearing the blind and collecting another 10 negatives.
Needed negative Pareidolia and Sock & Buskin
1:27:45 “this is gonna be a behemoth to edit btw” uh yeah dude, over 2 hours on this run, unseeded and insane ante, great job though
You just gotta think of triggers as your chips, and the multiplicative jokers as your mult, bloodstone and idle provide 8 mult and hack brainstorm and blueprint provide chips (along with the initial trigger) being 4 chips, if you took blueprint and put in on bloodstone then you have 12 mult and 3 chips… being 36 where-as your first strat gave only 32
22:45 nice IASIP reference
I wish I could get luck like this, this was nuts
I think a tier list video for Negative Utility Jokers would be cool. I'd like to see where they end up once the downside of tying up space without providing Chips or a Multiplier is taken out of the equation.
Also, it would've been a power move to single out one of those Polychrome 3s and just keep hitting it with Strength until it rolls back into a 2. Probably not that big of a deal, but still a power move.
An Endless B mode that makes the Blinds not scale anywhere close to as hard but also routinely donkey punches your multiplier so that the game can last longer would be really cool.
In general, having an even distribution of retriggers vs 2x's is always the way, for example: 3x2 is 6 (3x2 here being used to represent amount of retriggers and 2x's)
making it 4x2 (8) vs 3x3 (9) (adding 1 to either side) shows easily that evening it out is better
so 3x3 is better, aka even distribution is king
Also I'm pretty sure at the end there, blueprint should have stayed on Idol
I forgot to pull out* because I was so excited to watch.
*my headphones
omg what a run! I just have a question: why not putting more steel cards? I am total amateur compared with you guys, but why not using the discards more often ? what's the point of having ONLY 3 of hearts with the red marks, if you can play only 5 cards a time with a hand holding 7 cards? I get it's for consistency, but out of 23 cards, it makes sense to have 4-5 steel cards in the deck, or I'm missing something? statistically, with 5 discards and so few cards in the deck, you are almost guaranteed to play every hand with 5 scoring cards and 2 steel cards in hand. Also, why not buy the wheel every single time? with the whoops joker the chances are not too bad. Also why the popcorn at the end? Or these changes would be anyway too marginal?
Watched your hearthstone content for a while
Enjoying the Balatro stuff
Keep up the good work
The true high score wasn't the score Roffle created, but the Joker friends he made along the way
Imagine how much better this would’ve been if the lucky poly red seals were twos instead of threes.
23:48 with the magician you can upgrade two cards. But how ? I can only upgrade one card at once 🤔😢
Hey Roffle, love your videos. I really like the way you handle backseaters, it's hilarious!
So if you like the video, like the video
Can you get achieves on the new patch while it’s still in the experimental build?
Yes, you can. Achievements, unlocks, pb scores and such all work on the experimental branch just as they do on v1.0.
when you got the hand size voucher, would it have made sense to add a single red seal steel to hold when you play your flush 5?
huge anaglyph deck and cola joker buff
For some reason watching this video made my very next run similar in jokers I got, Hack, Blueprint, Oops all 6 even Yorick, I managed to unlock both Satellite and the extra -1 Ante, awesome run from you and mine
1:23:21 wouldn't ancient joker be better than dusk in this particular scenario?
I already heckin loved bloodstone before the change and it's now my favorite strategy period.
So post experimental build. I have gone from bashing my head against wall on even the red deck on base stake to actually winning rounds.
Before the experimental change I had two wins in nearly 30 hours of play time. I have gotten four or five wins in about 8 hours with the experimental update. There might be some stuff that needs to get tuned back like maybe it only gives you a buffoon pack if there isn't already one in the first shop because I've had a couple of rounds where I get two packs and I just bought both of them because why not?
There is still some RNG available but now the game's not in a state where I feel like I need to rage reset to get a good first shop. I've played some pretty horrible Jokers off of my first buffoon pack to a win in the experimental update and that feels better than repeatedly restarting until I get a good one
I'm sorry what? 2 wins total in 30 hours?
I literally did not lose a game for my first 6 or so games what the hell are you talking about
@@rajkanishuyou read that right. I'm still trying to figure out what exactly was going wrong and my only hunch at this point is that it was an odd interaction between the RNG logic and proton since I play on Linux.
I'm not usually that bad at these games.
I find the new gold stake much harder to get started, since all the new modifier on jokers really suck.... but once I get the run going, it's insanely easier with how much you can abuse packs to get your econ good, then fish for jokers you want. I failed my first bunch of runs, then won 5 in a couple hours.
ahh that was so close to 10 more negatives
Wow, Bloodstone being 2x mult instead of 1.5x was actually kind of insane LOL
His final score of 7.608e34 is 76 undecillion, which looks like this 76,080,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Actually it's decillion, not undecillion. The number you wrote is e37.
Yeah, orange and gold stakes have been hell as of late.
I still haven’t unlocked every deck, so I think you have the jokers in the good spot
Amazing, only mistaje whole run was you got an Eris in the pack right after Observatory, but used another Tarot instead of waiting til Fool to get it up top, but whocares?
Always remember: Retriggers are always additive, never multiplicative. Double-copied Hack on a red seal 3 will proc that card 5 times; Hanging Chad makes it 7 times. With a Flush Five of this, the difference between Hanging Chad and not Hanging Chad will be 27 procs versus 25 procs; thus, not very good.
Everybody out here saying what scores highest or what's best, and I'm sitting here like the science lab golden retriever meme.
"I have no idea what I'm doing".
That was awesome dude
When u had the 2 copy jokers the x2 hearts and the hustler, u could copy one of each and the resulting comb would get bigger i think
Can riff Raff spawn eternal jokers? I'm wondering if you got an eternal riff Raff and a madness?
How do you go beyond the 3 skip bonus? Is it a mod?
JOKES ON YOU CHUCKLENUTS, IT WAS WEE-JOKER RUN 2 THE WHOLE TIME!!!!1!!1!
Also, to answer your question posed in the title, no, you only got 18.
After the second ectoplasm, he made it to 19.
He did make it to 19
I think copying the hack is better since if you retrigger the card you retrigger the totem, but if its the last hand either the dusk or the hack will do the same thing
I know copying the totem give you 4x while copying the hack give 3x but the thing is,you also get everything else that a card gets,
And why don't get the skip of the vaucher, then you get +2 size of hand and an other negative joker
Technicaly deleting mroe cards helps with hiker scaling - if you keep hiting the same 3's with it they gonna give alot chips - prob outscaling wee joker completly
Nice the view count starting to go up on balatro videos
even if the negative tag would be on the small blind at the end - you would still lose as you would need to defeat the big blind
i had to go through that same realisation that using the double tags on the double skip wouldnt help at all
RIP
What if, when you have 19jokers and one slot free, you try to have the joker that allow you to get a 2nd time the same card so you can get to blue print ?
off topic, what s the outro song?
What a legendary run
Did he get double eris without showman? Is that possible?
He used the new blue seals that always give the planet card of the poker hand that won the round.
Okay! I didn't know blue seals were doing that now. Thanks !
@@NkSs96No problem! Yeah that's part of the new balance patch that's in beta right now and I think it's a really needed and cool change
@@Misty_FT I guess that balances them a bit. They were pretty bad compared to red and purple (imo).
@@NkSs96 oh yeah for sure, they were the worst by far. Definitely kicks them up a notch
bloodstone giving 2x mult guaranteed on a 5-card hand with three full retriggers is 1,048,576x mult
a small amount larger than yorik's 10x or so
with red seal and hack for double retrigger, a double-copied bloodstone would proc 3 times per card, with 15 effective cards, being 45 total activations for 3.5e13 times mult from only bloodstone
even distribution math is also not that hard
8x8 is 64, 9x5 is 45, 10x4 is 40, 11x3 is 33; the further away from equals the lower the result gets.
How come no one reminded him to discord for the tornado joker at the end???
Rip vampire gone too soon
what a lucky run
Madness carried me. Got it at the first shop. Made it polycrhome never bought a joker until ante 8. All jupiter cards. Got like level 16 flush with a x20 mult from madness
Bro madness was nerf, i cant, drawback of just having 1 joker, i cant.
Madness doesn't have a drawback if your other Jokers are Eternal. That's why it got nerfed.
God the math actually hurts my tiny feeble mind
36:30 I’m also a fan of hung men
Maybe im wrong but I would have create more blue seal in steel
Damn imagine a negative lucky cat and yorick
12 negative joker = digital crack
ditching Dusk for Idol instead of Lucky Cat might've been smarter, but i feel like finding out would require a lot of math and i dont feel like doing that
also this is a 2 month old video so it hardly even matters
okay i watched like 5 minutes further and immediately think i was right
Beans and brownies
If Localthunk sees this, I think the joker tags giving free stuff is too much. I think making them cheaper (like making them cost 3$ instead of free) would balance it. And make it so that that rental effect is removed after like 3 rounds like an actual rental so it isn’t a strain to the amount of cash you get each round.
i think it's fine. This only happens if you are stockpiling doubletags on the anaglyph deck, and it relies heavily on hitting a negative tag (which roffle basically didnt before going endless) and the jokers being good (which none of them were)
on a higher stake run there's a lot of inbuilt mechanics that'll prevent you from being this greedy with doubletags (5 joker slots, eternals, perish tag etc) so it wouldnt be able to gamebreak in higher difficulties either
yall get way too nerf happy when a deck does the specific thing it can only do well
sorry if that sounds mean it's not meant to be, just like the deck's going along doing it's thing :D
@@555Soupy555 This is in general! It makes the game a bit too easy for me!
I feel like the rental being 3$ forever is ok, if it was only for 3 or even 5 more rounds the rental tag would be close to a straight buff.
If you find a great joker that has rental tag, since it's 1$ it's easy to buy and makes you strong enough for the next few rounds to win in one hand, thus counterbalancing the rental effect. Your economy might even be better with the saved money from the 1$ price that turns into benefit. So now after 3-4 rounds you paid the full price of the joker, and have likely more money that you would if it wasn't rental. If the rental effect stops there the gold stake basically becomes a joke, being easier than the orange stake.
Also it's way more interesting for deck building compared to a -1 hand size that is unfun and too punishing. But I'm pretty sure everyone agrees on that part.
I don't know for sure about the free jokers but at least it gives a better reason to skip which help mainly in run starts, afterwards in mid-late game, negative being free or not is not a concern since you have your economy going. So I'd say ut's not really broken since it's only useful at the start which is okay
So yeah TL:DR I feel like the rental is better like it is rn.
@@adumbfurry7036
The entire point of rental is that it's a constant drain on your money. Agree with the joker skip tags though; they could definitely use a nerf. One idea would be to make the joker full cost, but not use up the tag unless the joker is bought? That might also be too powerful
Seed?
at the end
At the end, with red seal, hack, dusk and brain storm you had 25 triggers of cards, with 2×2×2 for bloodstone, idol and blueprint. Making a total of 8²⁵≈3,7e²² mult for these jokers.
If you had used the brainstorm to copy either idol or bloodstone, you would have gotten 5 less trigger, but 2 times more mult so (8×2)^(25-5)=16²⁰≈1,2e²⁴
So you still had a way to get stronger
Just sayin 🙄
I really hope the dev can make this accessible on phones or tablets. This is the perfect game to play when you have no internet. And not everyone is gonna take their consoles or pc or switches out places. Every one takes their phones though.
I don’t think the price should be $15 on phone. If the dev truly wants to get his product out there to the world. $5
Every dollar the amount of customers drops exponentially.
The thing about a low price like that too is he might make the same amount if he were to sell it for $15. But he’d have 3x the people playing it. Which means 3x the amount of people talking about it.
I truly think this would be one of the greatest phone games
this might be crazy but honestly he could sell the demo version for $5 and have a $10 upgrade option for the full game or something
So, Yorick isn't so poor anymore
Alas
Roffle sure seems to like his hung men
sole lite-only viewer 💪
welcome to the club buster
Luigi Casino Deluxe
roffle telling everyone look how hungry this boy is as im eating my breakfast i feel shamed
Obligatory outlandish youtube comment.
it actually made me mad how many times he used the wheel on 2 in 4 to hit when he could've copied the oops all sixes to get 4 in 4 for it to hit it
Edit: nvm I'm stupid and it does not work
Oops! All 6s is incompatible with Blueprint
@@payne124 ok I thought it would but think I misremembered that because I had a run where I both duplicated an oops all sixes and had blueprint
Is it just me or is this guy just skoottie but like… a software developer? Does that makes sense? No? Ok just checking.
Maybe there should be a spectral card that lets you select any number of cards i. Your hand and reduce their rank by one. Would be niche but cool
7:45 noodles 100% better than bus considering you're 1 shooting the blinds and bus is awful for high score
Also wdym you're destroying the king of hearts, literally the strongest card for high score
o7
Baseball is so much better than the lucky cat
but ffunni
it was a mistake not continuing to develop the wee joker, a 10k chips would've helped prolonging the run...
literally hiker
On top of missing Hiker value which outpaced Wee Joker long term it's just incorrect that 10k chips would have helped prolong the run. My final hand scored ~13k chips. An additional 10k chips would not have even doubled my score in a situation where I scored less than 1% of the requirement for the blind.
@@RoffleLite
Isn't the new hiker just giving you +5 per card while wee joker give you +8 per #2 card?
@Napoleonic_S no. Hiker upgrades each card that will then trigger again and again. Instead of of adding one total sum per hand
The update is op, come lets admit it. With this deck its literally impossible to lose unless you’re an idiot
Bullshit lol. Maybe think before you complain? He won early in the video, before he got ANY USE OUT OF HIS NEGATIVE TAGS. He just got a good joker combo, without the help of the deck. He would have been better off on any other deck lol, so how about not spreading false complaints?