@@kristo.biba21 Hi Kristo, I started a journalling conversation between my ego and my shadow. Normally, this involves my ego asking my shadow questions/ seeking advice. Hope this helps.
15:50 imposed creation of collateral shadow 16:50 energetic cost of shadow creation 17:15 what does the shadow imply 17:46 necessity of shadow 21:35 hooks 23:20 hooks 30:46 the idea of shadow possession (this may be a somewhat arrogant assertion, but I beleive this could be a theoretical impossibilty.... I think what is being discussed here is really archetype possession..... My reasoning is that shadow is unconscious, so we can only really begin the conversation and ask it in... Gradually get to know what's there.... The idea of deliberately living out the shadow... Consciously, therefore seems a pot fit... I beleive when we make a conscious choice to connect, and are readily engaged with some potent directional force in us that manifests very quickly in the real world, this is an example of engaging the archetype.... Hence we have many gods is war to ritualise when needed, many mother and father archetypes with which we engage to garner and rally our energeties towards - what we feel is the appropriate or necessary - course of action. Archetype possession has occured when we have lost our way and our humanity... Think of dictators, etc) 32:35 shadow work
constant disapline for 7 years to control the ego but as I learnt to be mindful taught me about other aspects of my self that need to address I am content at the moment at peace
Only about 6 minutes in and im blown away by the allegory of the shadow being cast out to the "wilderness" to fend for itself so to speak. This explains so much for me
Hi from Australia, This Jungian Life. This is a really enjoyable and insightful discussion. Anyone interested in symbolism in dreams, this is worth listening to. Thank you.
17:00 Joseph talks about when you repress an emotion it splits off into shadow and your personality. Deep down you know the feeling of not being repressed and that feeling interacts with your current situation and that’s how you get projection. The worse the repression the more intense the projection 31:50 shadow is compensating the persona 35:20 Befriend the shadow, introverted: imagine the shadow, interview, talk with them, write a play, meet with them, what to ask to help understand them 43:10 In fairy tales when a figure dies, it means the quality is integrated
Great episode! Ty. I gained some real healing from your discussion about the shadow, how to integrate and honor it, that it’s not a bogeyman, but has with it a treasure just beneath the surface. To let go of innocence and claim ones own shadow and reject Snow White as she was before she eats the apple. I feel better about my encounters with my own. I’m less afraid now. Thank you. And the dream interpretation was impressive, bordering on spectacular. I know, such hyperbole, but great job. All three of you, never really stepping on each other, but each one contributing.
One of the clearest explanations of this topic that I’ve heard. Especially for your discussion on projection, an idea that’s eluded me despite dozens of hours of research. Thank you.
Thank you for this foundational conversation. I say foundational because it has laid a new foundation in my understanding of myself and the psyche. Your examples and explanations are beautifully explained helpful and meaningful.
A perspective that has been in my mind is that the shadow is the things that reemerge when the subconscious finds a mirror. The mirror is another person who our shadow gets exposed by. If we know about projection and perception we know that there are different points of view we discover through the mirror if we are wise enough to see that the gift behind what we see is a different perspective. I think the shadow is formed from fear even in the slightest way like pushing away a feeling knowing it will be there for later. I agree that it is all about regression in an understanding that we dont know what we dont know and it can be handled when and if we do get a chance to discover what it means.
Many state that Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde is a tale about alcoholism in which the alcoholic's personality is markedly changed after he/she becomes intoxicated.
thank you guys .so nice to hear warm energy with amazing insight .usually these topics and the dull dreary delivery usually sends me to sleep. i soo love the analogy of outlasting the parts of the shadow into the woods.
Shadow making comes from many things, ultimately learned right and wrong, religion, family, friends, collective unconscious, school. Right and wrong or perhaps understood by the knowledge of good and evil, which is simply conscious/awareness/light and unconscious/unawareness/darkness. Started out born whole, then defragmented into light and darkness. Our job seems to be, too bring the darkness into the light seeking wholeness.
Social and cultural norms have great influence on people. I havent watched TV in almost 25 years now. And I dont injest any sort of stimulants such as coffee and the like. It is simply amazing how these simple things along with advertisement and other things influence an artificial way of living.
Those raised as girls are often told, verbally or no, not to be too cerebral, too adventurous, too idea-oriented because we are expected to always be physically and emotionally available, and those *positive* traits are thought to come at the expense of physical and emotional availability.
34 and working on unpacking my bag, discovering things I wonder why I felt the need to put there to begin with. Sometimes, and I think especially for those of us who are wired differently than the norm, those we trust to guide us socially are not always reasonable. They try to make us in their image, rather than a healthy, thriving version of ourselves. I needed this. Thank you, TJL.
I done the work and experienced all these things described by Carl Jung and others. Ancient techiniques such as breathing, meditation yoga poses and observation, contemplation. Our shadow is an entity and we meet it along the way when we have to truly face it and integrate it (ego death). Shadow is the resistence that hold us back from finding the truth about God, Devas, reality and our own divinity. The path is open and it is 1% theory 99% practice 🧘🏾♀️🙏🏿
This interpretation of fairy tales, like Snow White, the symbol of apple ect was simply genius! Thank you for that. I am a painter and I have had ideas about images involving apple, and now I understand the symbol of the apple in my paintings, the unconscious really works in mysterious ways. :)
I would go a step farther in this dream and say this guy in the dream is given the tool but that what the dream means is he needs his mothers permission to become new head of household, represented by the box that requires the right tool which can only be granted not taken or earned, represented by his working the tool to make right but has to be returned to the condition it was given by his mother... his psyche is telling him that he feels unsure about taking the masculine rule over the household without some real world sign from the mother, of which she would probably be happy to give unless of course she has some plan to remarry or something on that order... Thanks for this show, so much fun working someone else's dreams for a change, lol! ☮️❤♾️
THE SHADOW KNOWS Thanks for giving The Shadow a balanced presentation. "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows." Introductory words to the broadcast radio episodes of The Shadow, as quoted in Radio's Golden Age : The Programs and the Personalities (1966) by Frank Buxton and Bill Owen; also in Orson Welles : A Biography (1995) by Barbara Leaming, p. 123
In the dream analysis- I believe the screwdriver the mom gave him in the wood shop was a passing of the baton. His father passed away and now he is the man of the family but maybe he doesn’t quite feel ready but ends up taking on the challenge. Maybe he feels he needs to take care of his mom which is a huge responsibility he might be putting on himself.
It's simple. The shadow is the unbridled and raw truth of the self and of the world. As above so below. The raw materials for our alchemization toward the philosopher's stone... the SELF.
I love this discussion. About 15 minutes in I began to realize the nature of the specific experience that brought me here. For the sake of clarity of what emotions and mechanics are influencing me, I will share myself as an example. The earliest traumatic memory in my life was whenever my mother our neighbor mother agreed for their daughter and I to meet in the yard. Here we are corralled towards each other - I was about 5 years old and they were 4. I can distinctly remember a perception I had that they were very cute. Their outfit included red ribbon in their hair. Due to being raised with pets, I'd been given a programming to pet whatever I found cute. I had my hands on their soft hair before anyone knew what was happening, and she was suddenly bawling right before my eyes. We were separated, and I would have a long way to go before I could understand why and how it went. My mother perhaps told me I'd scared her and their case of what to not do was weak enough that I'd already taken over, in some sense. This impacted me then worse than any spanking - it was actually so extreme that my mind literally constructed a spanking that did not happen over that confusion. My question is: how can you help me understand this enough to restore my unknown parts? Thanks for your time.
You sounded like a very sweet loyyle girl. We have two cats (who my then crawling son adored, but would frustrate often when they would runaway from his 'pettung') and I really believe he thought we were all one big family of cats until 18. Anyway, when ever we'd have visiors he would always crawl over to them and start rubbing his head and body all over their lower legs... like our cats.. and I always delighted in this and it made me smile. No one ever rejected his behavior (thank goodness). I just wanted to tell you that reading your comment sparked this memory and had I been your caretaker, would have given you a big hug and snuggle and just explained that not everyone likes this 'petting' and that you did nothing wrong. Sorry it had such a negative effect on you... but so so cute🙏🤗
What is a healthy level of projection in a human being demonstrating that day except their full Self and how can we identify that or its absence within ourselves if we cannot afford counseling?
Yea, what she said about the gurl that was a showoff that got under her skin... My old best friend was the perfect picture of what a leo is: When he was younger he wasn't so much like that and eventually grew into always having to have everyone around him adore and concede to his ego. He craved it so bad and basked in it, that whenever he could find what he deemed an unacceptable trait to pounce on in another person, he would jump to judge them (even in such a way to where it was always justified by the people around him. I grew so tired of this game as I got older that I completely pushed him out of my life. Now I remember how my dad was always negatively talking about and judging people lile that and that must have seeped into my (shadow). I always questioned wht nobody else around me could see the flaws in his treating people like that. He was magnetic and attracted attention. Everyone just kinda conceded to his opinions and treatment accept for me. That's just what that reminded me of cause I had been holding onto it gor more than 20 years. How ridiculous is that to judge someone and be that effecting by someones actions for half their life? Literally a heavy shadow concept in my own life.
In reflecting on Joseph's point about the need to be specific about what the shadow quality is, I am thinking about the way Mindell's Process Oriented Psychology does this....Unfolding and unfolding until you get to the essence.
This is so interesting! Thank you for this episode and the channel itself. Do you think that we should be careful how people are told about the shadow-work or should we stress this subject even more? Could it be somehow harmful to someone who is not necesserily "ready" to face the idea of the Shadow?
I think conscious shadow work is best offered to adults with a strong sense of self. With children and teens, they need to rely on instinctive repression to contain their darkness so it does not overwhelm them. If someone is over 30 I think reading about shadow work can be interesting - if they turn away I'd take that as a sign they're not ready yet. Thanks for your question. ~ Joseph
@@thisjungianlife Thank you very much for the answer. I was thinking.. How could we as parents and educators "prevent" too excessive repression or is it even possibile? I mean, how could we support teens and children to recognize their feelings and behaviour in order to manage them constructively? This might have content for entire episode.. 🤔😅🌻
@@paivikoivuluoma6701 Repression helps a child adapt to the social norms of the society they are born into. It is a delicate matter of parenting and institutional education to help a child adapt without traumatizing them or alienating them from their natural personality. This is best done by introducing socially approved behavior, rewarding it and showing disinterest in behavior that does not suit. Children naturally emulate their parent's behavior and attitudes and are influenced even by subtle signals. Jung tells us that the greatest gift a parent can give a child is their own well-analyzed psyche because the unanalyzed aspects of the parents are often unconsciously pressed into the child. Aside from that parents must empathize deeply with their children and verbalize the child's experience in affirming ways. We can embrace our children's feelings and fantasies and still help them organize their behavior to be generally accepted.
Saying an authoritative figure giving messages as if they were from god is accurate to say. As a child, we project the 'god image' onto our care takers, and then evolve into projecting it into an abstraction once those faculties are developed, and the proper integration has taken place. Stimulating discussion!
I do worry about acknowledging the personal shadow when one has lived through abuse. With such damaging life experiences one needs to navigate the integration very carefully. So that the individual is not re-victimised in the process.
i worry bcs i feel like it would take over fully like the shadow i feel like that’s why i never allowed it i was afraid i will only be that and i would not know how to control it
This is my working image of the relationship between Self, Shadow and Persona. Imagine your face is the image of the Self, your 'true face'. Your Persona is a mask you wear. The mask presents an image of who you are to the world- the role you play- and it also protects your face from external harm. The mask does not cover your entire face- parts of your 'true face', your Self, show through. But the areas that the mask- the Persona- covers are the areas that are _in_ _shadow_ . The Persona _casts_ the shadow onto areas of your face, your Self, protecting it and hiding it from view- from the 'light of consciousness'. When we try to see our Selves, we look into a mirror and just like the outside world, we see the mask. We forget what is beneath it. At a certain stage of development the protective aspects of the mask are necessary, but at later stages we find we need to start removing parts of (not all of) the mask and both discover and reveal more of ourselves. So one way of identifying Shadow content might be to look at values you identify with and present to the world (and yourself) as 'who you are'- your Persona- and then look at what those values might be 'covering up'.
see we need feel our emotion otherwise it will get suppress and come out side ways at random moment and it cause all sorts of anxiety shaking !!important to feel and analize the emotion around it !! I know 100% of that area and I believe only people that have been in that situation can be of service to others !! if your not sure can be detrimental to a person's healing!!!!🌻💯🌈🌱🌄☀️🌼
I found myself feeling the dream interpretation was more Freudian than Jungian. Wouldn't a perhaps more Jungian interpretation be that the father and the son in the shed are both the dreamer, and the acceptance that one is ready to "learn the use of the phallus" and be an adult man? And that this requires going into the unconscious (the basement) and integrate the anima (mother) to achieve a true adulthood?
Thank you for this episode. I do have a question. I am a clinical supervisor and I am wondering how I can support my trainees when they encounter something in the therapeutic relationship that is indicative of their own shadow. Is there a book I could recommend? I try toReflect back to the training that I am curious and encourage them to be curious as well about the feelings that may be coming up for them. However, this does not always seem to land as the shadow is inherently uncomfortable. And I do notice some resistance at times. Your help is greatly appreciated :-)
My first reaction to hearing Joseph talk about the "earthy" manual labor type "country folk" who slapped the infant till it quit crying...was to see blatant classism. Those descriptors of the father did not seem necessary. But, in the spirit of the discussion, I thought "hey, these are real ideas that people hold about classes, why shame or "correct" people into not verbalizing thier true thoughts". Do we also shame, censor or punish people who hold "racist" views in the same way we may want to censor or punish those with other unpopular views such as classism? Aren't we all probably placing classist and racist thoughts into the shadow? These are real thoughts that real people have. I think maybe as a society we have been "slapping" people with politically incorrect thoughts. Even though I perked up to Joseph's relation of being a rural father, with that of violence...that is a very common idea that people hold (and it may have truth to it). I guess I'm just wondering if classism, racism and the other 'isms" should be looked at more honestly and acceptingly instead of shaming them to the Jungian shadow? To be clear, I'm not going after Joseph at all...what he said was completely valid and very relatable. I'm glad that this is a place where we can still have and hear very honest discussions.
I want to mention a tangential point, the slap. There is an early 20th century book on infant care which recommends this practice. I'm sorry, I don't have the reference. It was actually on my family's bookshelf, and I had found it a few years back online. (I think publication date was just post WWI.) I had gone looking into this practice because I saw my mother do it to my youngest brother in his crib - I 'd have been around three years old. It was shocking to me even then, and I also saw that my Mom had to work herself up just to do it. I think the book on the shelf, and my Mom's resorting to the slap, were passed down from my paternal grandmother, who helped Mom postpartum after I was born and she was alone during Dad's military deployment. It was a really hard slap. My brother did stop crying, but somehow that didn't bring me much relief at the time, I don't know about Mom.
I am 19 years old, I have been thinking of diving deeper into shadow work, I have held off as I have noticed people tend to think that shadow work can be harsh when not in a fit state of mind. I feel I am ready to face my shadows just need a bit of reassurance that I won't do further damage like I have been told. I do research this subject and videos like this help me learn how to implement it correctly. Is anyone else very young and feel the need to bring their darkness to light? *not darkness in a negative way*
I’m 23, and have been working for years on bringing my shadow to light. I have just reached a point where it feels as if it’s beginning to integrate more and my inner critic is doing everything in its power to shut it down. Particularly in the realm of having my voice and taking up space. “Everyone hates you now that’s you’ve started to speak up! You should’ve just stayed quiet.” is what it kept me awake with all night last night. We’ll see how it unfolds. It does seem to be a very incremental process that requires patience which can sometimes be annoying lol. Good luck, it sounds like you are on a noble path!
@@bunnycassell thank you Elizabeth! It’s hard to believe my comment was 2 months ago and I feel I’ve made progress from then. I wish you all the best thank you ♥️
~ before you read this, please know that I am very new to all that is "Jungian". Forgive me if my questioning and comments seem a bit pedestrian. I find it interesting that the teachings of Jung, the shadow, bringing the conscience and subconscious together. through imagination.......etc There is almost a warning that comes with it. That we are most certainly going to tap into something about ourselves that is part of us whether conscious or subconscious, that is so dark and disturbing, that we will want to reject it. Is he actually trying to instill fear in us so that we don't let this part of us take control.? Sort of like " the fear of God"? ....or did he actually come face to face with a part of himself that was incomprehensible, even to him?! I am so excited to meet this side of myself. I think in doing so, accepting this dark side, which we all have, but also discovering where my trauma, childhood- present day lives, in its infinite vile glory, will strengthen me on a cellular level. To be able to say to myself, it's okay to have anger. It's okay to have these horrible thoughts against the people that have hurt you. But the best of all, to say to myself, you didn't let this anger and this trauma Define you. You were strong enough to not become them. Whether or not I can give myself credit for all of that strength, or chalk it up to our brain and our self, our soul. ..being somewhat equipped for this journey......??? Another one for the rabbit hole.
Dx F60.81 for the one who thinks like their so beautiful. Do you think jungian techniques or theodore millon approach would help reduce the narcissism but will they even show up in your office.
What if i get disguised by gossip or violence, should i get into it so i figured it out or there is a certain things we agreed not to accept and to be civilized?
One secret is as above so below, meaning you can go inside yourself when looking out into the world 🌎 the mirror allows this if you come back too your inner reflection.
I thought the dream is really interesting.His Dad had made a 'home-made' screwdriver partly with masking tape. If the dreamer remedies this, it falls apart. Something about his Dad's life which is 'masked' or flimsy and whether or not it should be uncovered, as we've got no idea what's in the box - reminds me of Pandora. Is the box about death/mortality or something else? Great episode,thank you.
As Beautiful as this entire episode is, and most especially Joseph's voice and insights, I absolutely do not buy his anecdote of casually speaking to a working man who told him how he slapped his infant in her crib until she stopped crying. Sorry.
you are projecting ;) haha, these things happen, clearly you understand that right? some parents rape their own kids, some parents slap their kids, some parents rape newly born kids... Is your ego refusing to accept a potential truth?
perfectly said the under belly of Ego that sits dormant until it needed with in a split second switch from at ease to full power from activating the coiled serpent Kundalini rising energy like a recoil spring!!🌻🌼☀️🌄🌱😇🌈💯
The women in this lost all credibility when injecting their political beliefs into a shadow integration space. Such a thoughtless and violating experience. No human should ever deem themselves to qualify the shadow, but to instead forever remain a student of its awe and mystery. Not to intentionally use plausible deniability to push forward your own agenda into plausible deniability for whoever may be listening to this video for gods sake.
Working with my Shadow in the past six months has been one of the most profound growth experiences of my life.
can you please share hpw did you start ?
@@kristo.biba21 Hi Kristo, I started a journalling conversation between my ego and my shadow. Normally, this involves my ego asking my shadow questions/ seeking advice. Hope this helps.
Thanks
@@dlgm161
@@dlgm161thank you for sharing this 🙏 I am going through this…was looking for some medicine
@@dlgm161 how does one have these conversations? Any prompts or questions that can help get this started? Thanks
15:50 imposed creation of collateral shadow
16:50 energetic cost of shadow creation
17:15 what does the shadow imply
17:46 necessity of shadow
21:35 hooks
23:20 hooks
30:46 the idea of shadow possession (this may be a somewhat arrogant assertion, but I beleive this could be a theoretical impossibilty.... I think what is being discussed here is really archetype possession..... My reasoning is that shadow is unconscious, so we can only really begin the conversation and ask it in... Gradually get to know what's there.... The idea of deliberately living out the shadow... Consciously, therefore seems a pot fit... I beleive when we make a conscious choice to connect, and are readily engaged with some potent directional force in us that manifests very quickly in the real world, this is an example of engaging the archetype.... Hence we have many gods is war to ritualise when needed, many mother and father archetypes with which we engage to garner and rally our energeties towards - what we feel is the appropriate or necessary - course of action. Archetype possession has occured when we have lost our way and our humanity... Think of dictators, etc)
32:35 shadow work
constant disapline for 7 years to control the ego but as I learnt to be mindful taught me about other aspects of my self that need to address I am content at the moment at peace
All three have the most amazing soothing voices! Much needed during challenging subject matter like this ☺️
Absolutely and wonderfully insightful THANK YOU
35:30 Joseph's suggestion here is pure gold.
Only about 6 minutes in and im blown away by the allegory of the shadow being cast out to the "wilderness" to fend for itself so to speak. This explains so much for me
Beautiful ❤
Hi from Australia, This Jungian Life. This is a really enjoyable and insightful discussion. Anyone interested in symbolism in dreams, this is worth listening to. Thank you.
17:00 Joseph talks about when you repress an emotion it splits off into shadow and your personality. Deep down you know the feeling of not being repressed and that feeling interacts with your current situation and that’s how you get projection. The worse the repression the more intense the projection
31:50 shadow is compensating the persona
35:20 Befriend the shadow, introverted: imagine the shadow, interview, talk with them, write a play, meet with them, what to ask to help understand them
43:10 In fairy tales when a figure dies, it means the quality is integrated
The figure dying is interesting to me. I wonder how that plays into collective consciousness and individual people dying.
Great episode! Ty. I gained some real healing from your discussion about the shadow, how to integrate and honor it, that it’s not a bogeyman, but has with it a treasure just beneath the surface. To let go of innocence and claim ones own shadow and reject Snow White as she was before she eats the apple. I feel better about my encounters with my own. I’m less afraid now. Thank you. And the dream interpretation was impressive, bordering on spectacular. I know, such hyperbole, but great job. All three of you, never really stepping on each other, but each one contributing.
One of the clearest explanations of this topic that I’ve heard. Especially for your discussion on projection, an idea that’s eluded me despite dozens of hours of research. Thank you.
Thank you for this foundational conversation. I say foundational because it has laid a new foundation in my understanding of myself and the psyche. Your examples and explanations are beautifully explained helpful and meaningful.
What a fine conversation !
Well paced, simple language ; valuable stuff.
This channel is everything i dreamed of
A perspective that has been in my mind is that the shadow is the things that reemerge when the subconscious finds a mirror. The mirror is another person who our shadow gets exposed by. If we know about projection and perception we know that there are different points of view we discover through the mirror if we are wise enough to see that the gift behind what we see is a different perspective. I think the shadow is formed from fear even in the slightest way like pushing away a feeling knowing it will be there for later. I agree that it is all about regression in an understanding that we dont know what we dont know and it can be handled when and if we do get a chance to discover what it means.
Another amazing episode. Thanks for your wisdom, guidance and company on these incredible inner journeys!
Thank you for this very informative & pleasant conversation. Really appreciate this.
It's so delightful to hear the 3 of you laugh!!!
I love Joseph's voice.. Radio voice :D when he speaks I feel like I'm listening to an audiobook haha soo nice and relaxing!
Many state that Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde is a tale about alcoholism in which the alcoholic's personality is markedly changed after he/she becomes intoxicated.
Ow how golden the fairy tale of Snowwhite exploring is.. I love how open and frank you all are being as you explore this subject 😊
thank you guys .so nice to hear warm energy with amazing insight .usually these topics and the dull dreary delivery usually sends me to sleep. i soo love the analogy of outlasting the parts of the shadow into the woods.
"i would never do that, i dont even want to go there" - No, Go there.
Yes! Yes and yes!
Shadow making comes from many things, ultimately learned right and wrong, religion, family, friends, collective unconscious, school. Right and wrong or perhaps understood by the knowledge of good and evil, which is simply conscious/awareness/light and unconscious/unawareness/darkness. Started out born whole, then defragmented into light and darkness. Our job seems to be, too bring the darkness into the light seeking wholeness.
Social and cultural norms have great influence on people. I havent watched TV in almost 25 years now. And I dont injest any sort of stimulants such as coffee and the like. It is simply amazing how these simple things along with advertisement and other things influence an artificial way of living.
Those raised as girls are often told, verbally or no, not to be too cerebral, too adventurous, too idea-oriented because we are expected to always be physically and emotionally available, and those *positive* traits are thought to come at the expense of physical and emotional availability.
These 3 are purely brilliant!
34 and working on unpacking my bag, discovering things I wonder why I felt the need to put there to begin with. Sometimes, and I think especially for those of us who are wired differently than the norm, those we trust to guide us socially are not always reasonable. They try to make us in their image, rather than a healthy, thriving version of ourselves.
I needed this. Thank you, TJL.
I done the work and experienced all these things described by Carl Jung and others. Ancient techiniques such as breathing, meditation yoga poses and observation, contemplation. Our shadow is an entity and we meet it along the way when we have to truly face it and integrate it (ego death). Shadow is the resistence that hold us back from finding the truth about God, Devas, reality and our own divinity. The path is open and it is 1% theory 99% practice 🧘🏾♀️🙏🏿
This is great. Would be nice to be able to see the speakers.
This Conversation Was Very Insightful 🔋✅
This interpretation of fairy tales, like Snow White, the symbol of apple ect was simply genius! Thank you for that. I am a painter and I have had ideas about images involving apple, and now I understand the symbol of the apple in my paintings, the unconscious really works in mysterious ways. :)
I would go a step farther in this dream and say this guy in the dream is given the tool but that what the dream means is he needs his mothers permission to become new head of household, represented by the box that requires the right tool which can only be granted not taken or earned, represented by his working the tool to make right but has to be returned to the condition it was given by his mother... his psyche is telling him that he feels unsure about taking the masculine rule over the household without some real world sign from the mother, of which she would probably be happy to give unless of course she has some plan to remarry or something on that order...
Thanks for this show, so much fun working someone else's dreams for a change, lol! ☮️❤♾️
I learning to flow now which part that works with all areas emotion!!🌼☀️🌄🌱🌈💯🌻
THE SHADOW KNOWS
Thanks for giving The Shadow a balanced presentation.
"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows."
Introductory words to the broadcast radio episodes of The Shadow, as quoted in Radio's Golden Age : The Programs and the Personalities (1966) by Frank Buxton and Bill Owen; also in Orson Welles : A Biography (1995) by Barbara Leaming, p. 123
but crying and releasing allows that anger level down!! the more we learn to cry and release the milder the anger gets!!💯🌈😇🌱🌄☀️🌼
Wow I can really relate to Rita. Thank you guys for this info.
In the dream analysis- I believe the screwdriver the mom gave him in the wood shop was a passing of the baton. His father passed away and now he is the man of the family but maybe he doesn’t quite feel ready but ends up taking on the challenge. Maybe he feels he needs to take care of his mom which is a huge responsibility he might be putting on himself.
It's simple. The shadow is the unbridled and raw truth of the self and of the world. As above so below. The raw materials for our alchemization toward the philosopher's stone... the SELF.
I love this discussion. About 15 minutes in I began to realize the nature of the specific experience that brought me here. For the sake of clarity of what emotions and mechanics are influencing me, I will share myself as an example.
The earliest traumatic memory in my life was whenever my mother our neighbor mother agreed for their daughter and I to meet in the yard. Here we are corralled towards each other - I was about 5 years old and they were 4. I can distinctly remember a perception I had that they were very cute. Their outfit included red ribbon in their hair. Due to being raised with pets, I'd been given a programming to pet whatever I found cute. I had my hands on their soft hair before anyone knew what was happening, and she was suddenly bawling right before my eyes.
We were separated, and I would have a long way to go before I could understand why and how it went. My mother perhaps told me I'd scared her and their case of what to not do was weak enough that I'd already taken over, in some sense. This impacted me then worse than any spanking - it was actually so extreme that my mind literally constructed a spanking that did not happen over that confusion.
My question is: how can you help me understand this enough to restore my unknown parts? Thanks for your time.
You sounded like a very sweet loyyle girl. We have two cats (who my then crawling son adored, but would frustrate often when they would runaway from his 'pettung') and I really believe he thought we were all one big family of cats until 18. Anyway, when ever we'd have visiors he would always crawl over to them and start rubbing his head and body all over their lower legs... like our cats.. and I always delighted in this and it made me smile. No one ever rejected his behavior (thank goodness). I just wanted to tell you that reading your comment sparked this memory and had I been your caretaker, would have given you a big hug and snuggle and just explained that not everyone likes this 'petting' and that you did nothing wrong. Sorry it had such a negative effect on you... but so so cute🙏🤗
Thank you 🦋
9:10 good point from Joseph
You guys I love your podcast so much ! Would you mind sharing some book recommendations on the shadow? Thanks x
What is a healthy level of projection in a human being demonstrating that day except their full Self and how can we identify that or its absence within ourselves if we cannot afford counseling?
17: projection link to wholeness
Yea, what she said about the gurl that was a showoff that got under her skin... My old best friend was the perfect picture of what a leo is: When he was younger he wasn't so much like that and eventually grew into always having to have everyone around him adore and concede to his ego. He craved it so bad and basked in it, that whenever he could find what he deemed an unacceptable trait to pounce on in another person, he would jump to judge them (even in such a way to where it was always justified by the people around him. I grew so tired of this game as I got older that I completely pushed him out of my life. Now I remember how my dad was always negatively talking about and judging people lile that and that must have seeped into my (shadow). I always questioned wht nobody else around me could see the flaws in his treating people like that. He was magnetic and attracted attention. Everyone just kinda conceded to his opinions and treatment accept for me. That's just what that reminded me of cause I had been holding onto it gor more than 20 years. How ridiculous is that to judge someone and be that effecting by someones actions for half their life? Literally a heavy shadow concept in my own life.
leo gang lmao
In reflecting on Joseph's point about the need to be specific about what the shadow quality is, I am thinking about the way Mindell's Process Oriented Psychology does this....Unfolding and unfolding until you get to the essence.
The light will save the darkness ✨️
This is so interesting! Thank you for this episode and the channel itself. Do you think that we should be careful how people are told about the shadow-work or should we stress this subject even more? Could it be somehow harmful to someone who is not necesserily "ready" to face the idea of the Shadow?
I think conscious shadow work is best offered to adults with a strong sense of self. With children and teens, they need to rely on instinctive repression to contain their darkness so it does not overwhelm them. If someone is over 30 I think reading about shadow work can be interesting - if they turn away I'd take that as a sign they're not ready yet. Thanks for your question. ~ Joseph
@@thisjungianlife Thank you very much for the answer. I was thinking.. How could we as parents and educators "prevent" too excessive repression or is it even possibile? I mean, how could we support teens and children to recognize their feelings and behaviour in order to manage them constructively? This might have content for entire episode.. 🤔😅🌻
@@paivikoivuluoma6701 Repression helps a child adapt to the social norms of the society they are born into. It is a delicate matter of parenting and institutional education to help a child adapt without traumatizing them or alienating them from their natural personality. This is best done by introducing socially approved behavior, rewarding it and showing disinterest in behavior that does not suit. Children naturally emulate their parent's behavior and attitudes and are influenced even by subtle signals. Jung tells us that the greatest gift a parent can give a child is their own well-analyzed psyche because the unanalyzed aspects of the parents are often unconsciously pressed into the child. Aside from that parents must empathize deeply with their children and verbalize the child's experience in affirming ways. We can embrace our children's feelings and fantasies and still help them organize their behavior to be generally accepted.
@@thisjungianlife Thank you. 😊🙏 This was very helpful. 🌞
@Paivi Kovuluoma, you have very delicately raised some meaningful issues, and the resulting comments have been thoughtful and wise. 😋 Thank you! 👍❣️
The Nutty Professor is another good example of shadow dynamics!
Like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde sort of thing.
Saying an authoritative figure giving messages as if they were from god is accurate to say. As a child, we project the 'god image' onto our care takers, and then evolve into projecting it into an abstraction once those faculties are developed, and the proper integration has taken place. Stimulating discussion!
“Polite society “ is the reason Im here
I do worry about acknowledging the personal shadow when one has lived through abuse. With such damaging life experiences one needs to navigate the integration very carefully. So that the individual is not re-victimised in the process.
i worry bcs i feel like it would take over fully like the shadow i feel like that’s why i never allowed it i was afraid i will only be that and i would not know how to control it
This!
20:21 wow.
This is my working image of the relationship between Self, Shadow and Persona. Imagine your face is the image of the Self, your 'true face'. Your Persona is a mask you wear. The mask presents an image of who you are to the world- the role you play- and it also protects your face from external harm. The mask does not cover your entire face- parts of your 'true face', your Self, show through.
But the areas that the mask- the Persona- covers are the areas that are _in_ _shadow_ . The Persona _casts_ the shadow onto areas of your face, your Self, protecting it and hiding it from view- from the 'light of consciousness'. When we try to see our Selves, we look into a mirror and just like the outside world, we see the mask. We forget what is beneath it.
At a certain stage of development the protective aspects of the mask are necessary, but at later stages we find we need to start removing parts of (not all of) the mask and both discover and reveal more of ourselves.
So one way of identifying Shadow content might be to look at values you identify with and present to the world (and yourself) as 'who you are'- your Persona- and then look at what those values might be 'covering up'.
This analogy is so good! This was helpful in understanding this.
6:45 ish... interesting bag analogy by Robert Bly.
see we need feel our emotion otherwise it will get suppress and come out side ways at random moment and it cause all sorts of anxiety shaking !!important to feel and analize the emotion around it !! I know 100% of that area and I believe only people that have been in that situation can be of service to others !! if your not sure can be detrimental to a person's healing!!!!🌻💯🌈🌱🌄☀️🌼
I found myself feeling the dream interpretation was more Freudian than Jungian. Wouldn't a perhaps more Jungian interpretation be that the father and the son in the shed are both the dreamer, and the acceptance that one is ready to "learn the use of the phallus" and be an adult man? And that this requires going into the unconscious (the basement) and integrate the anima (mother) to achieve a true adulthood?
Is there any book that explains this topic to a new comer and to integrate it in normal life
Thank you for this episode. I do have a question. I am a clinical supervisor and I am wondering how I can support my trainees when they encounter something in the therapeutic relationship that is indicative of their own shadow. Is there a book I could recommend? I try toReflect back to the training that I am curious and encourage them to be curious as well about the feelings that may be coming up for them. However, this does not always seem to land as the shadow is inherently uncomfortable. And I do notice some resistance at times. Your help is greatly appreciated :-)
A comprehensive primer I'd recommend is
by Connie Zweig (Editor), Jeremiah Abrams (Editor)
39:04 snow white’s shadow dynamics
My first reaction to hearing Joseph talk about the "earthy" manual labor type "country folk" who slapped the infant till it quit crying...was to see blatant classism. Those descriptors of the father did not seem necessary. But, in the spirit of the discussion, I thought "hey, these are real ideas that people hold about classes, why shame or "correct" people into not verbalizing thier true thoughts". Do we also shame, censor or punish people who hold "racist" views in the same way we may want to censor or punish those with other unpopular views such as classism? Aren't we all probably placing classist and racist thoughts into the shadow? These are real thoughts that real people have. I think maybe as a society we have been "slapping" people with politically incorrect thoughts. Even though I perked up to Joseph's relation of being a rural father, with that of violence...that is a very common idea that people hold (and it may have truth to it). I guess I'm just wondering if classism, racism and the other 'isms" should be looked at more honestly and acceptingly instead of shaming them to the Jungian shadow? To be clear, I'm not going after Joseph at all...what he said was completely valid and very relatable. I'm glad that this is a place where we can still have and hear very honest discussions.
I would love to know the answer to your pondering as well. Thank you for sharing your inner dialogue, I definitely relate to it!
I want to mention a tangential point, the slap. There is an early 20th century book on infant care which recommends this practice. I'm sorry, I don't have the reference. It was actually on my family's bookshelf, and I had found it a few years back online. (I think publication date was just post WWI.) I had gone looking into this practice because I saw my mother do it to my youngest brother in his crib - I 'd have been around three years old. It was shocking to me even then, and I also saw that my Mom had to work herself up just to do it.
I think the book on the shelf, and my Mom's resorting to the slap, were passed down from my paternal grandmother, who helped Mom postpartum after I was born and she was alone during Dad's military deployment. It was a really hard slap. My brother did stop crying, but somehow that didn't bring me much relief at the time, I don't know about Mom.
Thank you
I am 19 years old, I have been thinking of diving deeper into shadow work, I have held off as I have noticed people tend to think that shadow work can be harsh when not in a fit state of mind. I feel I am ready to face my shadows just need a bit of reassurance that I won't do further damage like I have been told. I do research this subject and videos like this help me learn how to implement it correctly. Is anyone else very young and feel the need to bring their darkness to light? *not darkness in a negative way*
Me too im 20.
I’m 23, and have been working for years on bringing my shadow to light. I have just reached a point where it feels as if it’s beginning to integrate more and my inner critic is doing everything in its power to shut it down. Particularly in the realm of having my voice and taking up space. “Everyone hates you now that’s you’ve started to speak up! You should’ve just stayed quiet.” is what it kept me awake with all night last night. We’ll see how it unfolds. It does seem to be a very incremental process that requires patience which can sometimes be annoying lol. Good luck, it sounds like you are on a noble path!
@@bunnycassell thank you Elizabeth! It’s hard to believe my comment was 2 months ago and I feel I’ve made progress from then. I wish you all the best thank you ♥️
@@jadeagnew377 could you maybe give me some tips and advice? Like practically what did u do? Im confused as to how to go about everything
27:00~
~ before you read this, please know that I am very new to all that is "Jungian". Forgive me if my questioning and comments seem a bit pedestrian.
I find it interesting that the teachings of Jung, the shadow, bringing the conscience and subconscious together. through imagination.......etc There is almost a warning that comes with it. That we are most certainly going to tap into something about ourselves that is part of us whether conscious or subconscious, that is so dark and disturbing, that we will want to reject it. Is he actually trying to instill fear in us so that we don't let this part of us take control.? Sort of like " the fear of God"? ....or did he actually come face to face with a part of himself that was incomprehensible, even to him?!
I am so excited to meet this side of myself. I think in doing so, accepting this dark side, which we all have, but also discovering where my trauma, childhood- present day lives, in its infinite vile glory, will strengthen me on a cellular level.
To be able to say to myself, it's okay to have anger. It's okay to have these horrible thoughts against the people that have hurt you. But the best of all, to say to myself, you didn't let this anger and this trauma Define you. You were strong enough to not become them. Whether or not I can give myself credit for all of that strength, or chalk it up to our brain and our self, our soul. ..being somewhat equipped for this journey......???
Another one for the rabbit hole.
Seminal content as per usual 💖😻💖
Dx F60.81 for the one who thinks like their so beautiful. Do you think jungian techniques or theodore millon approach would help reduce the narcissism but will they even show up in your office.
Most narcissists wouldn't show up in a therapists office, they are operating from a false self rather than the true self.
Do you guys think you can make a podcast about ego to properly understand what it is?
What if i get disguised by gossip or violence, should i get into it so i figured it out or there is a certain things we agreed not to accept and to be civilized?
One secret is as above so below, meaning you can go inside yourself when looking out into the world 🌎 the mirror allows this if you come back too your inner reflection.
I thought the dream is really interesting.His Dad had made a 'home-made' screwdriver partly with masking tape. If the dreamer remedies this, it falls apart. Something about his Dad's life which is 'masked' or flimsy and whether or not it should be uncovered, as we've got no idea what's in the box - reminds me of Pandora. Is the box about death/mortality or something else? Great episode,thank you.
🖤🖤🖤💀
Interesting the two hosts didn't really know what it is.
20:41
This reminds me of a phrase from Neitzsche.
To bring one's seven devils to the aid of ones
"god" . But then he did have a fierceness about him.
I love that quote!
@@thisjungianlife
A "Doorway to the real" .A new one to me but I'm liking it .
34:00
my momma's boy archetype is strong even though im very old :(
😮💨
As Beautiful as this entire episode is, and most especially Joseph's voice and insights, I absolutely do not buy his anecdote of casually speaking to a working man who told him how he slapped his infant in her crib until she stopped crying.
Sorry.
Okay...
you are projecting ;) haha, these things happen, clearly you understand that right? some parents rape their own kids, some parents slap their kids, some parents rape newly born kids... Is your ego refusing to accept a potential truth?
perfectly said the under belly of Ego that sits dormant until it needed with in a split second switch from at ease to full power from activating the coiled serpent Kundalini rising energy like a recoil spring!!🌻🌼☀️🌄🌱😇🌈💯
the biggest mistake westerners did was drift away from Jungian psychology and move towards Atheistic materialist psychology.
Red hot iron shoes
19.33
Nataraj
The women in this lost all credibility when injecting their political beliefs into a shadow integration space. Such a thoughtless and violating experience. No human should ever deem themselves to qualify the shadow, but to instead forever remain a student of its awe and mystery. Not to intentionally use plausible deniability to push forward your own agenda into plausible deniability for whoever may be listening to this video for gods sake.