Yeah. That's a common tradeoff. Power isn't hard to get so efficiency isn't a big deal. Not to mention the use case for this woofer would be a small two way setup, probably for a desktop or a small room, so MAYBE the average user is pumping 10 watts into it. Labeling it as "It's shit" is just cringe... If whoever this guy is, wants to use PA woofers in everything, fine. Calling less sensitive drivers shit is just being obnoxious.
@@RobotUnderground That's a 8" driver. Why are you comparing that to the 5.25" Epique driver? Seems it's fairer to compare it to other 5.25" drivers. For example, the Tang Band W5-1138SM, which has a lower BL, higher Fs, lower Xmax and an even lower sensitivity. The "problem" I see with this driver is that it's difficult to make good use of all that Xmax, unless opt for some sort of actively-eq'd sealed alignment. Vented looks nice on paper, but then you eventually find out that you can't get a decently-sized vent into the gnat-sized box that the sims call for, and even PR alignments are problematic (try finding PRs with enough excursion that can work in such a gnat-sized box, LOL). I can see these in small "monitor" boxes though, with active EQ, or perhaps with one of the coils driven by a separate amplifier, to pull up the low end. II
I’ve modeled this in WINISD and I can get crazy low tuning with great power handling. The 7” one gets audible output down to 25hz and maxes out at 106db which is more than adequate for smaller to medium sized rooms. This thing is no slouch.
@@RobotUnderground you could physically get a speaker to move as much and play as low but doing so without running out of BL on the cheap is probably impossible. This speaker is designed to have a large linear region of magnet strength so when you turn it up and it starts moving, the magnets has at least 70% magnetic strength even at max excursion. Most cheaper speakers drop to less than 50% BL after +\- 5 or 6mm of xmax. Show me a speaker half the price from a reputable manufacturer with accurate t/s parameters.
There is so much incorrect information here it's hard to know where to suggest to gather all the info. Few points. (1) "BL is so low" If it was higher, it would have higher SPL and less bass. A larger driver will need a bigger box. The driver is clearly designed as a woofer capable of getting low and you can't get that in a small box with high sensitivity. (2) Where is anyone stating this is a XBL^2 motor!? It is a MAGG which means it has effectively 2 top plates with a air gap between. The magnets used on the top are chosen to try and keep BL consistent through travel, reducing distortion and is a patented method. XBL^2 is also patented and very different. (3) You mention better drivers like Dynavox and suggest no actual comparison? (4)Don't under how it can be lower than FS - Big misconception that they cannot. In a vented or PR setup, the port or PR can be tuned below Fs to help extend the lower end (4) You call it a mid-bass and not a woofer as it only goes down to 40Hz. Well it can go lower and mid-bass frequencies are typically seen as the 200
5:12 You lost me on this point my guy. FS is just the highest point on a bell curve; it goes back down after. FS is the point where the mechanical suspension has the least control over the motor, but it never has zero control. I think the idea used here is in respect to ported enclosure design, where a subsonic filter is recommended around the tuning frequency to prevent damaging the driver (because near this point the suspension is not helping keep the coil in the magnetic gap). This idea itself assumes a driver plays below it's FS just fine. 7:54 Driver terminology is a combination of frequency response and system design. Midbass is 80-250+, Bass is 80-40, and Sub Bass is below 40. If I design my system like that, this driver can absolutely cover Bass and Midbass just fine. You may need more than one driver per channel to get the SPL you're looking for, but the cone moves at those frequencies just fine.
@@RobotUnderground yes, you have to use it for the right aplication and you only think about your situation, so for you it is not a good speaker i guess.
High excursion causes lower sensitivity against a driver of the same BL product with shorter excursion. I think the thing with this driver is the bl product being consistent through excursion because of the magnet structure, it's why it has such low HD over most of its passband.
This is a Dual Gap design, not to be confused with XBL^2. The BL is actually good for this driver mass and suspension compliance. Is it the hype they put out, I'll find out soon enough, as I have two 7" versions going into just 30-80Hz duty.
@@RobotUnderground Not really, not much else out there in the same category... They are really clean, IMD-products are just a level below Purifi. Or do you know of many ~5" high excursion drivers that can play in small (~9l) boxes and dig into the mid 30's while still doing great up to and beyond 2kHz with good IMD-performance? They're perfect for a small 2-way that's not supposed to be doing high SPL.
@@TheDaniel85 The expense is what gets me... and the sensitivity problems make this a non-starter. If MCM can deliver their 8" for $40 shipped, PE is making cash hand over fist on this little turd.
@@RobotUnderground The sensitivity is a non-issue for the application really. The MCM does not belong to the same category nor plays in the same league in regards to IMD or just about anything else save sd and sensitivity. It's like comparing an orange to a mushroom. It's a great driver if it's what you're looking for.. Which is; Linear displacement, small box size, ability to go low, clean IMD and distortion performance to easily cross over to a tweeter in a two-way. It's IMD-performance is some of the best out there, nothing to be scoffed at. They're almost alone in this category save for a couple of other drivers which either costs substantially more, or perform sub-par. You can have two out of three: High sensitivity Small box Low bass extension Dayton went full throttle on number 2 and 3. Just because you don't see a use for it, or can't envision one for some reason.. Does not mean it's a bad driver, because it's not. It's just a niche product.
Purifi uses LMS. Dayton uses a split gap instead. Read more about LMS here. web.archive.org/web/20090225221137/www.audiopulse.com/products/subwoofer-drivers/lms-ultra
@@RennieAsh Correct. Total displacement is what creates pressure. You can have an 8" sub but it needs to move quite a bit in order to produce the pressure levels that people want.
Lol. Here's a MUCH better driver that I DON'T make. Also look at the Silver Flute's from Madisound. www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-3550/8-carbon-fiber-die-cast-woofer/dp/40P9734
@@RobotUnderground That's an 8". Whatcha got going lower, cleaner, and flatter than the Epique at 5.5" or less, that doesn't cost more than double? I'll wait.
@@brs2c A 6" woofer is a dumb idea. 8" woofers are dumb too, ua-cam.com/video/PjJGyu-2U3s/v-deo.html. A tactile transducer would do a better job as a sub in an application like that. It's cheaper, needs no enclosure and needs only 50w. www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-BST-1-High-Power-Pro-Tactile-Bass-Shaker-50-Watts-295-244
I think you kind of missed the point. There's no harm in a low BL and low sensitivity driver, that comes with the territory of engineering a small driver with great excursion. So long as it's linear, I'm happy. Sensitivity isn't what it used to be but that's a big sign of the times. Lots of manufacturers are releasing low sensitivity, high excursion, drivers that are designed to go low in small boxes. Yeah it takes a lot of power but watts are cheap. And yeah you can easily go lower than fs in alignments designed as such. Lots of tiny bluetooth speakers exploit this. I've built a pair with an fs of 120Hz driver, passive radiator in an EBS alignment they give useful output down to 60Hz.
I don't think I missed the point. It's important to realize WHY Dayton Audio even thought this driver was wanted in the marketplace when there are so many other solutions that do as good or better for less money. Right now drivers like these are popular. People think they like them. At $100 a pop, that's pretty expensive but not compared to CT Sounds or Sundown so they're taking advantage of this craze. That's all. I put my recommendations in the description if you're looking for a home driver that does the same or better. Really this driver shouldn't exist otherwise. Dayton's heavy duty tactile transducers will yield a better experience, cost less and require less power.
@@RobotUnderground I can't see any recommendations in the description. I don't see $100 as a bad deal for something like this. People wanting small, insensitive, boxes that go deep isn't a craze it's been happening for the last 40+ years. Drivers like these are just the way progress has gone. Those tactile jobbies are useful for feeling rumble in a movie but hopeless for actually hearing reasonable deep bass. Plus to tune the system correctly you'd need separate amps for them and your main speakers. Most people do not listen at levels louder than 90dB peak 99% of the time. This doesn't take much amp power even with insensitive drivers like this. We've yet to see any third party measurements on these but so far, if I was doing a small, insensitive, deep bass producing speaker, these would be on the top of the list.
@@RobotUnderground Ah I saw the recommendations elsewhere. They don't make sense, why are you recommending an 8" driver when we're talking compact, narrow, two ways? And I wouldn't want that silver flute in any serious system I was putting together.
@@RobotUndergroundNo this video was supposed to be an objective critique based on whether or not the driver would be able to successfully integrate into the applications for which it was intended. All you've done is say I don't like it because it doesn't do what I want it to do. Then give examples of what you'd rather use when building a completely different type of system. It's like you could be critiquing a dome tweeter here and saying it's terrible because it can't play loud enough when your application requires a compression driver.
Watched the video earlier today it's fine for a tower three way. It is carbon fiber it's a good sub for the price of the seven inch. Compared to other companies
You're going to have big issues getting it to match sensitivity to other drivers. Maybe four of them per single tweeter.. But then that's like $800 for stupid mids. Better to get something like this. www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-3550/8-carbon-fiber-die-cast-woofer/dp/40P9734
@@RobotUnderground you can just make a crossover wich lower the tweeter spl, this is what most do in this situation. That you can't do this is because you are just a noob who want to sell a shitty driver on a cheap looking site.
Thanks for bringing that info out. I was almost ready to press the order button. (glad I didn't) what do you recommend that will do the same job at a lower cost? for a 2 way speaker. thanks.
@@RobotUnderground I need two pairs for a brand new 9.2 channel receiver. primarily for Dolby Atmos. I'm going through major renovations, (I can't use my tower speakers right now) two will be needed for the mains. two for the rear. (a total of four) eventually, all four will be used as surround speakers. when I'm finished renovating. BTW; I was considering just buying two sets of Polk audio ES15.Thanks
@@JadeB628 Have you considered in-wall / ceiling mount speakers? I have the RC8 speakers from Recoil in stock. High performance and affordable at only $75 per pair. www.recoilaudio.com/product/rc8-2-way-premium-8-in-ceiling-speakers-160-watts-pair-trimless-magnetic-grille-pivoting-tweeter-set-of-2-perfect-for-damp-and-humid-indoor-outdoor-placement-bath-kitchen-covered-porc/ If you need only the mid, I have a wide range of choices depending on your budget. Text me direct, 6023126504
"fs is 40hz. so idk how they can get 30 hz frequency repsonse" 1. ported boxes typically play lower than fs. 2. there is nothing that tells us what range they use for frequency response. it could be the -10db points. its why they gave response graphs and we have modeling software. so we can see how it responds in our intended use case. also, i suggest giving "how to record a computer screen" a search.
What would mini sub would you recommend to replace a bronco with a kicker key 500.1 powering it. It thinknit currently runs a 6.75 woofer. I love the technical content of this video!!!
@@RobotUnderground im interested in this. given the frequency range, power and xmax, what is a good application for this driver? say like u got them free as gifts, and u decide to make an eclosure for them, and u WILL be using it as part of a system with other drivers, say prolly a sub bass.... like what enclosure would this driver be good for?
@@sMASHsound Just as a midbass in a 2way or 3way. Technically you could use it in an MTM setup but I'd imagine it'd need to be MMTMM to be effective with a tweeter. You'd also have to have an L-pad on the tweeter to match sensitivities. 2 way setup at 8 ohm final load across the passband. Put in a ported enclosure and tune to around 40Hz. Great for an apartment and then I'd augment with a sub if you could or just Bass Shaker Pro's for an apartment. XO point would be around 1500-1800hz at -12db or -18db slopes as D'Appolito recommends. The best way would be with a multi channel DSP so you can tweak on the fly.
Same diff, though I was reading why some testers will say one but not the other. has to do with lower impedance amps. Still the same when measured vs impedance.
@@manjulwalia1995 You're forgetting the R. What is the value of R? You adjust the input to the speaker according to the total voltage. You can do this with a DVM and a small capacitor. Used to do it in the 90's with everything from Radio Shack.
@@RobotUnderground bro.. I was actually thinking like ... If one speaker is say , 95dB and we use two such speakers Then its 98dB but then.. the individual speaker would take 1w each ... That's a total of 2 watts from the amp isn't it ??? Or is it just 1 watt and we get 98dB/m ? 😐
Well I do have a dessert called the Blue waffle taco. Blueberry waffle shaped like a taco. Filled with vanilla bean ice cream then topped with chocho shavings for the pubes.
@@RobotUnderground they are a novelty to me I love small subs / full range drivers I'm glad you posted your opinion about them helps me with figuring out why this 4th is so punchy 🤣🤣🤣
@@RobotUnderground I think you missed the whole part in these woofers can be used in 2 ways. Your talking about a dedicated sub not one that can play up to 4k. How many 10-15s do that and sound decent
Maybe u need to order speakers from China and open your own national brand like parts express has done. Maybe charge much less and have people working for you for free
Further comment: I have seen these used as a midbass driver in a two-way speaker with a high-dollar, robust tweeter, and they do work. They are not what I would do for a design (for one thing I would not use such a large surround) but they are fairly usable if you don't need high sensitivity and can throw a lot of watts at them (compared with other midwoofers). I much prefer the approach taken by the Exodus/DIYSG Anarchy midwoofers.
BL is a product of two numerical quantities, field strength (B, tesla) and conductor length immersed in the field (L, meters) - the smaller magnets you have here are more common in small drivers for hi-fi and OEM car audio, and a smaller magnet makes less 'B', and then you have a certain number of turns of wire of a certain size that you can fit in the gap, and if the amount of turns can't increase to compensate for the loss of B then the BL product will be lower. BL of 9 isn't super high but it is never going to be as high as the BL products of large autosound subwoofers. The Dayton Audio Epique MMAG midwoofers are using "MMAG", a patent owned by Patrick Turnmire of Redrock Acoustics, which differs from XBL because it adds another layer of magnetic material between the first and second gaps to balance the flux in each gap. These drivers do have a short coil but they are not an "underhung" design because there is a B 'notch' between the upper and lower gap; an underhung driver has a continuous B profile in the gap. These are "brothers" of XBL but they are not using the XBL patent, so no royalties to Dan; the royalties go to Pat. I'm not sure if Enrique Stiles is still associated with Redrock, but he was a co-inventor of MMAG with Patrick, and the two of them are some of the "big brains" in audio consulting.
@@RobotUnderground .. You're a Prince !! .. Application: '96 911 Carrera, need a solid 130mm mid-driver/bass speaker?.. The worlds best, if there is one. .. Again, Thanks! . The Dayton Audio Epique was a disjointed Bull Shit presentation.
Nice to see someone else on the Dynavox tip. I put a low budget system in a Jeep Liberty, including Dynavox 6.5" woofers ($11.00/each) in stock door locations, 2.75" Visaton wide band drivers in the dash. For subs, (2) old-school MTX 12" Terminator on a Kenwood amp off Craigslist for $50. Total system cost was around $100 * and my 16 year old nephew was thrilled. (Jeep is his) It took me a long time until I had a car audio system that sounded that good. Those 6.5" woofers sounded awesome and had a big-ass motor structure, paper cone with PVA coating. For $11.00 I can't think of anything that can beat 'em. *head unit was donated and I contributed passive filter components and install of everything
Low sensitivity and high power rating really isn't an issue imo, if you split two of these drivers into a high excursion 8" 300w woofer and two 5-1/4 50w mid bass drivers you're back to square one in terms of power consumption and sensitivity. You pay for squeezing the performance of a 2.1 system into a 2.0 system, for some that's worth the ~50% price hike.
So wait. If you have magnet and it has a bump plate on it then you stack magnets on top of the bump plate and then add another bump plate. Doesnt that in effect cancel out the first bump plate? I think it almost kills the the magnativity of the first plate. By the way mcm electronics always had cheaper prices just not as much selection.
the smaller magnets draw the magnetic field to the top plate, so yes the field strength is less in both gaps compared to same magnet and using one gap. but this one has much higher linear excursion and distortion. at the cost of some efficiency.
Here in Europe these cost 130€ and for me in polish pln its around 600 so it is not cheap but i love drivers like this one and low bass (i know it is not good at all) and i want to build 6th order isobaric loaded bandpass box for two of these 20/5L 22/45Hz what do you think (also just before i clicked on ur vid i thought about this BL be so low becouse i ve seen that this woofer is not very stiff) what do you think about it? Are there any better 5,5 inch woofers that you think i should buy instead of these?? Greetings form Poland
@@RobotUnderground yeah that sucks but my goal here is to get as much low bass as possible with small box will se as i build it and its all about passion and i really dont mind what others say but from ,,logic,, side ur right
@@RobotUnderground i dont have any limit of space just want to make that box with those speakers ;) in my room i have dayton ultimax 12 in 100L 20Hz box and it goes down to 16 If i say i have only 10L of space You Probably will tell me to put some 8inch in closed box huh? :D i am just looking for some crazy project to build something not boring Why bandpass and isobaric is bad? And to clear things up i want to build a isobaric bandpass so it is iso and bp at the same time
@@RobotUnderground hehe one is 12 inch one is 5..... so the 12 inch performs even worse then. also the box size would be waaaaaaaay larger to of the 12 inch
love seeing this break downs - please do more of these videos - Maybe do some videos on your favorite drivers 3 4 5 6 inch at parts express and madisound for the price.
Yes, Dayton makes that 1 1/8" dome tweeter with low Fs. I use the truncated version with the Mpyre mids I have. Also, check this one out from MCM. www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-3550/8-carbon-fiber-die-cast-woofer/dp/40P9734
FWIW I think this MAY have a niche in car audio when space is at such a premium that you can't possibly fit a subwoofer cabinet anywhere in the car so the only course of action is to replace the stock woofers with these. Of course I'm ASSUMING that the drivers aren't so tall that you can't even fit the drivers in the first place which means the ONE niche I could possibly think of for these drivers died on the spot. That being said our 1986 toyota camry need a 5.5 inch woofer replacement since the stock ones are ruptured. I assume madisound... Or dynavox? probably have some nice budget drivers of that size.
This is perfect for my car with factory sail panel sub box that fits 5.25 only have to trim a tiny bit I thought about doing 6.5 but that wouldn’t fit at all
If you not going to give it the 200w rms then what is the point in even buying something at 200w rms buy something around 50w rms instead. Under powering can also hurt a woofer that's why most people give it rated power or over.
@@RobotUnderground uhm well sort of both, if the ampl clips the woofer might see just DC, so no moving coil etc no more cooling..... so heat build up etc
I don't think it is all that bad. It's very hard to get a mid-bass driver of this size with this kind of Xmax performance so for a drop in sensitivity of a few dB it is a fair trade off ;)
i cant say either, but have you personally had this driver in your hands and built with it? I dont trust their measurements, or any company really. the ultimax is the worst subwoofer i ever tested but that does not mean this one is bad. not chosing a side but before you say bad things, it is more credible to just get it and test it then rant. just saying!
As with any driver ever made, it has it's applications! You are ignoring what it is good for and labelling it as a mid bass which is incorrect. The driver from Newark you say is better for a woofer application has 1.5mm of Xmax!
XBL was designed by Adire audio back in the early 2000's. You don't know how drivers are designed and you don't understand physics. There are trade offs. Name a 5.5" driver that can be tuned as low with higher BL and higher SPL.
Meh. I fully understand what you're saying but none of your cons listed kill the existence of this driver imo. As you well know, every driver is a compromise. Just because you dont agree with the compromises made doesnt mean that it literally shouldn't exist. Most importantly, my largest rebuttal is that watts are cheap as hell these days. Your first and main criticism was the BL and low sensitivity. I doubt anyone (knowledgeable) is using these in an application where a 5 watt tube amp is employed. Everyone's use case is different. Please don't misunderstand me your points are absolutely valid, just like the existence of the driver is valid for someone's individual use case. I've taken a look at the suggested "replacements" and some take a bit of a left turn if considering some specific uses for the driver. Finally (per a couple of your comments), no, more often than not transducers cannot replace an actual driver without noticing a difference in sound, assuming its in a balanced and somewhat linear sounding system. (Im assuming we're still assuming that the listener has the same listening abilities as you and I, otherwise your argument may actually be valid in the case of the average bass-head teenager)
Glad I could help. A bit pricey and deep. Better just to augment with some hearty 6x9's in enclosures. Keep long wires on them so you can put them on the roof when camping / at the river or lake.
I was intrigued when I watched the video, thought it was a neat driver, but then again I don't know the pros and cons of it. Good to know. Have you ever heard of Silver Flutes? Ive had a pair of the 6.5 versions in the front doors of my caravan for not quite a year. I replaced 6.5 pro mids I thought were decent but the flutes were wayyyy better. They have a wool composite cone, it looks nice at the very least. They have a cast frame and a Decent sized motor. I only have just those on 75x2 amp in a 3 way setup But I paid $35 each I think at madisound so not bad for decent speaker.
I LOVE the Silver Flutes from Madisound!!! Great drivers. My other all time favorite is an 8" from MCM...err, was since they went belly up. But the parent company still imports them. www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-3550/8-carbon-fiber-die-cast-woofer/dp/40P9734
@@RobotUnderground another surprisingly decent speaker I bought from a parts express 2 closeout Dyna Lab 8" v22 for $9 each I bought for a boombox build, I also used an 8" Goldwood poly cone subwoofer for $8 closeout at the time now it's back I think for like $20, the sub in 1.25 sealed has nice clean full sound in 40-50s but 30s at even lower volume it starts getting out of shape quick, but the dyna labs in .75 sealed are lout and clean with good mid bass. I read somewhere dyna lab was a white van brand...? But these were great and fact PE was selling em...got me. It's all on one of those popular 2.1 board amps on 15A 24v Amazon power supply. It gets pretty loud n sound good, but not as loud as my original boombox with 6.5 eastech woofers 3" Dayton mid and cheap paper tweets in 1cf each on old 3 way Kenwood truck speaker crossover with $25 head unit and an back in the day cheap car parts store audiovox rampage (maaaaaybe 80x2) "1200.2" on switching 12v 20A Amazon power supply, it really does crank.I think diy Boomboxes are really cheap fun way to play with car audio parts and learn and try different stuff...Sorry for long comment🤭
I see more of a problem with the current flowing at Fb and the low efficiency , in combination with a relative short coil , lots of power compression ..... and which port can handle the volumetric displacement requirement? So you need a large passive radiator of good quality , or two smaller ones (mutual pertubation problem) . But visually very attractive , price is too high! Btw - how long do these Santoprene surrounds lasting? I assume no one can repair this driver because there is no replacement surround to get anywhere . ALMA association tried several times to standardize surround sizes but no luck . It seems the manufactures do not want the repair option for their customers , they are the masters , we are their consumer slaves , welcome to planet HELL! Makes me sick how we are treated here , really .... fuck it!
These things are built very thin (today). Under high loads you can hear air blowing through the carbon fiber weave. I recently bought a few of these and the passive variants, they all behave this way. Compared to the SB Acoustics cf woofer line, it's night/day quality. The SB cf is thicker and has a felt layer on the backside to reduce unwanted breakup/resonance associated with cf. Performance tho, is pretty silly for a driver this size. I built a SIX liter sub with a single 5.5" and dual passives. In-room response is strong down to 24hz. It's hilarious for it's size Lol. The passives all have different resonances tho, I had to fine tune weights on each to get them to match. I think there's a manufacturing consistency challenge with this product line...
Is the Alpine DDLinear woofer XBL^2? I know it uses 2 magnets in the motor to help with linearity. (the tweeter also has 2 magnets but 2 coils, one inside the other) They have the most insane bass I've ever experienced, I actually have a 6dB HPF at 200hz and have dead flat response down to 40hz before slowly rolling off in my stock front doors. I haven't heard the term before. Subbed. ua-cam.com/video/ycSGqDy4x3E/v-deo.html
Thank you SOOOOOOO much for your insight! I'm some what an old school bass car audio guy, but I love stealth hi-mid power systems. I'm new to Dayton and was researching the he'll outta these for low bass in a stealth setup! So glad I ran across your 'TUTORIAL'!!!! You saved me some $$$ and headache! Can I get your opinion on the 'Tang Band W5-1138SMF 5-1/4"? Thanks Man!!!!! ✌🏾❤✊🏾
Any of those small drivers are very applications specific. I think I can help you better if you let me know what you're trying to do tell me more about the project
@@RobotUnderground I'm looking for a small bass (around 50hz) subwoofer to install in a stealth/compact enclosure setup for a car. Specific a 2nd gen Toyota MR2 MK2 SW20. Building a custom enclosure to put in the cabinet space hidden behind the seat. Or maybe use the factory enclosure which the stock sub was a 5.25" driver.
@@BroVCam I would recommend a tactile transducer instead. I have something like this for $45 shipped. amzn.to/3cO7tkT It's 4 ohm and only needs 50wrms. Maybe a bass knob to control the level and that's it.
So you are saying it's nad because it has a low sensitivity and that's it? You say that while you sell "great subs" with a Qts of above 0,8 or something.... Dude those are tiny woofer's and some fancy scan speak 5,5inch woofer doesn't have a higher BL It has higher sensitivity though then again it has half the moving mass and isn't a woofer with 14mm xmax. Stop talking about things you don't know enaugh about to make such comments!
Dayton is mostly crap. They are only into profit , I use to drive to there store once a month back in the 90's from Tennessee to get my supplies of eminence drivers , then I met a guy that worked in the sales department of eminence and then only had to drive to eminence Kentucky. Other than that I drove to madisound speakers in Wisconsin.
@@RobotUnderground you are right . I sold my line array speakers I built back in 2004 using 8 of those carbon fibers per speaker , I mated them to 54 inch tall BG ribbon line source midhighs with a 3rd order on the 8 inch and a 4rth order on the ribons at 1250 hertz. They were awsome speakes , no matter where you sat in the room they imaged like crazy . And had tons of spl without them breaking a sweat. . And the truncated 28 mm Dayton domes I used in alot of designs for my customers that could not afford morels or dynaudio.
Everybody. Is all off bace. HELLO !!! ITS MUSIC!!!!, WHO GIVES A CRAP ABOUT ALL YOUR COMPUTOR GRAPHES.. IF YOU LIKE IT , AND TOYOU IT ROCKS,, GO FOR IT... EVRYBODY. S. EARS HEAR DIFFERANT
BL seems fine given the Mms of 26.6g. Tradeoff of efficiency for xmax was made so I don't see this as a problem.
Yeah. That's a common tradeoff. Power isn't hard to get so efficiency isn't a big deal. Not to mention the use case for this woofer would be a small two way setup, probably for a desktop or a small room, so MAYBE the average user is pumping 10 watts into it. Labeling it as "It's shit" is just cringe...
If whoever this guy is, wants to use PA woofers in everything, fine. Calling less sensitive drivers shit is just being obnoxious.
www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-3550/8-carbon-fiber-die-cast-woofer/dp/40P9734
@@Clobercow1 "It's shit"
@@RobotUnderground That's a 8" driver. Why are you comparing that to the 5.25" Epique driver? Seems it's fairer to compare it to other 5.25" drivers. For example, the Tang Band W5-1138SM, which has a lower BL, higher Fs, lower Xmax and an even lower sensitivity.
The "problem" I see with this driver is that it's difficult to make good use of all that Xmax, unless opt for some sort of actively-eq'd sealed alignment. Vented looks nice on paper, but then you eventually find out that you can't get a decently-sized vent into the gnat-sized box that the sims call for, and even PR alignments are problematic (try finding PRs with enough excursion that can work in such a gnat-sized box, LOL). I can see these in small "monitor" boxes though, with active EQ, or perhaps with one of the coils driven by a separate amplifier, to pull up the low end. II
@@Grommet2007 I think 8's are dumb. How dumb do you think, that I think a 5" "woofer" is??
I’ve modeled this in WINISD and I can get crazy low tuning with great power handling. The 7” one gets audible output down to 25hz and maxes out at 106db which is more than adequate for smaller to medium sized rooms. This thing is no slouch.
I'm sure all those things are true but I'm also sure that I can do the same thing with half the budget
@@RobotUnderground you could physically get a speaker to move as much and play as low but doing so without running out of BL on the cheap is probably impossible.
This speaker is designed to have a large linear region of magnet strength so when you turn it up and it starts moving, the magnets has at least 70% magnetic strength even at max excursion. Most cheaper speakers drop to less than 50% BL after +\- 5 or 6mm of xmax. Show me a speaker half the price from a reputable manufacturer with accurate t/s parameters.
@@RobotUnderground So it’s a good driver, he just wishes it was less monies. Btw the motor is crazy looking on these drivers!
Exactly, I'm really looking forward to hearing these. I don't need 150 db to listen to music...
There is so much incorrect information here it's hard to know where to suggest to gather all the info. Few points. (1) "BL is so low" If it was higher, it would have higher SPL and less bass. A larger driver will need a bigger box. The driver is clearly designed as a woofer capable of getting low and you can't get that in a small box with high sensitivity. (2) Where is anyone stating this is a XBL^2 motor!? It is a MAGG which means it has effectively 2 top plates with a air gap between. The magnets used on the top are chosen to try and keep BL consistent through travel, reducing distortion and is a patented method. XBL^2 is also patented and very different. (3) You mention better drivers like Dynavox and suggest no actual comparison? (4)Don't under how it can be lower than FS - Big misconception that they cannot. In a vented or PR setup, the port or PR can be tuned below Fs to help extend the lower end (4) You call it a mid-bass and not a woofer as it only goes down to 40Hz. Well it can go lower and mid-bass frequencies are typically seen as the 200
Hi Paul :) ur right. i was just looking for the post reaction button , but you explained it better then i might have done anyways haha
5:12 You lost me on this point my guy. FS is just the highest point on a bell curve; it goes back down after. FS is the point where the mechanical suspension has the least control over the motor, but it never has zero control. I think the idea used here is in respect to ported enclosure design, where a subsonic filter is recommended around the tuning frequency to prevent damaging the driver (because near this point the suspension is not helping keep the coil in the magnetic gap). This idea itself assumes a driver plays below it's FS just fine.
7:54 Driver terminology is a combination of frequency response and system design. Midbass is 80-250+, Bass is 80-40, and Sub Bass is below 40. If I design my system like that, this driver can absolutely cover Bass and Midbass just fine. You may need more than one driver per channel to get the SPL you're looking for, but the cone moves at those frequencies just fine.
Offcourse its inefficient cause its a smaller driver with large excursion what do u expect 90db?
Right, so in order to keep up with a normal driver, you have to use more or some other method. So then it becomes a really expensive solution.
@@RobotUnderground yes, you have to use it for the right aplication and you only think about your situation, so for you it is not a good speaker i guess.
High excursion causes lower sensitivity against a driver of the same BL product with shorter excursion. I think the thing with this driver is the bl product being consistent through excursion because of the magnet structure, it's why it has such low HD over most of its passband.
XBL or split gap always compromises BL product
This is a Dual Gap design, not to be confused with XBL^2. The BL is actually good for this driver mass and suspension compliance. Is it the hype they put out, I'll find out soon enough, as I have two 7" versions going into just 30-80Hz duty.
Also, need to point out Parts-Express/Dayton Audio uses Kippel to verify the driver designs.
I don't care. It's still overpriced.
@@RobotUnderground Not really, not much else out there in the same category... They are really clean, IMD-products are just a level below Purifi. Or do you know of many ~5" high excursion drivers that can play in small (~9l) boxes and dig into the mid 30's while still doing great up to and beyond 2kHz with good IMD-performance?
They're perfect for a small 2-way that's not supposed to be doing high SPL.
@@TheDaniel85 The expense is what gets me... and the sensitivity problems make this a non-starter. If MCM can deliver their 8" for $40 shipped, PE is making cash hand over fist on this little turd.
@@RobotUnderground The sensitivity is a non-issue for the application really. The MCM does not belong to the same category nor plays in the same league in regards to IMD or just about anything else save sd and sensitivity. It's like comparing an orange to a mushroom. It's a great driver if it's what you're looking for..
Which is; Linear displacement, small box size, ability to go low, clean IMD and distortion performance to easily cross over to a tweeter in a two-way. It's IMD-performance is some of the best out there, nothing to be scoffed at. They're almost alone in this category save for a couple of other drivers which either costs substantially more, or perform sub-par.
You can have two out of three:
High sensitivity
Small box
Low bass extension
Dayton went full throttle on number 2 and 3. Just because you don't see a use for it, or can't envision one for some reason.. Does not mean it's a bad driver, because it's not. It's just a niche product.
It's a 5'' subwoofer.
Why would you expect it to be efficient?
It gets to 33 Hz.
All of your points are invalid.
How would you get down to 33hz when the Fs is 40Hz?
@@RobotUnderground By using a larger box (9.5L) and let it drop -0.5 to -1 dB @ 70Hz. This is inaudible
@@RobotUnderground I play under 20Hz with my Ultimax 10. FS isn't a hard limit on extension.
@@379rale Let me see the freq response on that. Is that in car? Cabin gain doesn't count.
@@JoshM7 All subs can play to 20Hz. It just depends on how loud it does down there.
How is the Purifi woofer compared to Dayton new epique
Purifi uses LMS. Dayton uses a split gap instead. Read more about LMS here. web.archive.org/web/20090225221137/www.audiopulse.com/products/subwoofer-drivers/lms-ultra
So what do you suggest for 5.5", or less that goes lower, smoother, and/or flatter than this, that doesn't cost more than double (i.e. Purifi)?
Aura Pro bass shaker or the Dayton version.
RobotUnderground they don’t move air much though right?
@@RennieAsh Correct. Total displacement is what creates pressure. You can have an 8" sub but it needs to move quite a bit in order to produce the pressure levels that people want.
The epique is a really good sub don't listen to him he hates on anything that's good if he doesn't make it
Lol. Here's a MUCH better driver that I DON'T make. Also look at the Silver Flute's from Madisound.
www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-3550/8-carbon-fiber-die-cast-woofer/dp/40P9734
@@RobotUnderground That's an 8". Whatcha got going lower, cleaner, and flatter than the Epique at 5.5" or less, that doesn't cost more than double? I'll wait.
@@brs2c A 6" woofer is a dumb idea. 8" woofers are dumb too, ua-cam.com/video/PjJGyu-2U3s/v-deo.html. A tactile transducer would do a better job as a sub in an application like that. It's cheaper, needs no enclosure and needs only 50w. www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-BST-1-High-Power-Pro-Tactile-Bass-Shaker-50-Watts-295-244
@@RobotUnderground I am building a portable speaker, in the smallest form factor I can. 8" isn't an option.
@@brs2c Look to some of the Tymphany driver packs. Have you seen Diamond Boxx?
I think you kind of missed the point. There's no harm in a low BL and low sensitivity driver, that comes with the territory of engineering a small driver with great excursion. So long as it's linear, I'm happy. Sensitivity isn't what it used to be but that's a big sign of the times. Lots of manufacturers are releasing low sensitivity, high excursion, drivers that are designed to go low in small boxes. Yeah it takes a lot of power but watts are cheap.
And yeah you can easily go lower than fs in alignments designed as such. Lots of tiny bluetooth speakers exploit this. I've built a pair with an fs of 120Hz driver, passive radiator in an EBS alignment they give useful output down to 60Hz.
I don't think I missed the point. It's important to realize WHY Dayton Audio even thought this driver was wanted in the marketplace when there are so many other solutions that do as good or better for less money. Right now drivers like these are popular. People think they like them. At $100 a pop, that's pretty expensive but not compared to CT Sounds or Sundown so they're taking advantage of this craze. That's all. I put my recommendations in the description if you're looking for a home driver that does the same or better. Really this driver shouldn't exist otherwise. Dayton's heavy duty tactile transducers will yield a better experience, cost less and require less power.
@@RobotUnderground I can't see any recommendations in the description.
I don't see $100 as a bad deal for something like this.
People wanting small, insensitive, boxes that go deep isn't a craze it's been happening for the last 40+ years. Drivers like these are just the way progress has gone.
Those tactile jobbies are useful for feeling rumble in a movie but hopeless for actually hearing reasonable deep bass. Plus to tune the system correctly you'd need separate amps for them and your main speakers.
Most people do not listen at levels louder than 90dB peak 99% of the time. This doesn't take much amp power even with insensitive drivers like this.
We've yet to see any third party measurements on these but so far, if I was doing a small, insensitive, deep bass producing speaker, these would be on the top of the list.
@@RobotUnderground Ah I saw the recommendations elsewhere. They don't make sense, why are you recommending an 8" driver when we're talking compact, narrow, two ways? And I wouldn't want that silver flute in any serious system I was putting together.
@@biggityboggityboo8775 It depends on your application. If you think this is a good deal, go for it. I don't and that's what this video is about.
@@RobotUndergroundNo this video was supposed to be an objective critique based on whether or not the driver would be able to successfully integrate into the applications for which it was intended.
All you've done is say I don't like it because it doesn't do what I want it to do. Then give examples of what you'd rather use when building a completely different type of system.
It's like you could be critiquing a dome tweeter here and saying it's terrible because it can't play loud enough when your application requires a compression driver.
Watched the video earlier today it's fine for a tower three way. It is carbon fiber it's a good sub for the price of the seven inch. Compared to other companies
You're going to have big issues getting it to match sensitivity to other drivers. Maybe four of them per single tweeter.. But then that's like $800 for stupid mids. Better to get something like this. www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-3550/8-carbon-fiber-die-cast-woofer/dp/40P9734
@@RobotUnderground .. Thanks !
@@RobotUnderground you can just make a crossover wich lower the tweeter spl, this is what most do in this situation. That you can't do this is because you are just a noob who want to sell a shitty driver on a cheap looking site.
Thanks for bringing that info out. I was almost ready to press the order button. (glad I didn't) what do you recommend that will do the same job at a lower cost? for a 2 way speaker. thanks.
What's your application?
@@RobotUnderground I need two pairs for a brand new 9.2 channel receiver. primarily for Dolby Atmos. I'm going through major renovations, (I can't use my tower speakers right now) two will be needed for the mains.
two for the rear. (a total of four)
eventually, all four will be used as surround speakers. when I'm finished renovating.
BTW; I was considering just buying two sets of Polk audio ES15.Thanks
@@JadeB628 Have you considered in-wall / ceiling mount speakers? I have the RC8 speakers from Recoil in stock. High performance and affordable at only $75 per pair. www.recoilaudio.com/product/rc8-2-way-premium-8-in-ceiling-speakers-160-watts-pair-trimless-magnetic-grille-pivoting-tweeter-set-of-2-perfect-for-damp-and-humid-indoor-outdoor-placement-bath-kitchen-covered-porc/
If you need only the mid, I have a wide range of choices depending on your budget. Text me direct, 6023126504
"fs is 40hz. so idk how they can get 30 hz frequency repsonse"
1. ported boxes typically play lower than fs.
2. there is nothing that tells us what range they use for frequency response. it could be the -10db points. its why they gave response graphs and we have modeling software. so we can see how it responds in our intended use case.
also, i suggest giving "how to record a computer screen" a search.
Dropoff after Fb is steep. That's why they're called 4th order roll-off. Fs is only as good as FB as well. Some of these guys are just pudding heads.
What would mini sub would you recommend to replace a bronco with a kicker key 500.1 powering it. It thinknit currently runs a 6.75 woofer. I love the technical content of this video!!!
Money better spent on tactile transducer(s)
well, u have to chose 2 of 3 options: price, quality, space. u cant get all 3.
If you go direct to China you do... or DIY like I do
@@RobotUnderground im interested in this. given the frequency range, power and xmax, what is a good application for this driver? say like u got them free as gifts, and u decide to make an eclosure for them, and u WILL be using it as part of a system with other drivers, say prolly a sub bass.... like what enclosure would this driver be good for?
@@sMASHsound Just as a midbass in a 2way or 3way. Technically you could use it in an MTM setup but I'd imagine it'd need to be MMTMM to be effective with a tweeter. You'd also have to have an L-pad on the tweeter to match sensitivities. 2 way setup at 8 ohm final load across the passband. Put in a ported enclosure and tune to around 40Hz. Great for an apartment and then I'd augment with a sub if you could or just Bass Shaker Pro's for an apartment. XO point would be around 1500-1800hz at -12db or -18db slopes as D'Appolito recommends. The best way would be with a multi channel DSP so you can tweak on the fly.
frequency response, space, and sensitivity
0:53 , it should be 2.83V not 1w right ??
Same diff, though I was reading why some testers will say one but not the other. has to do with lower impedance amps. Still the same when measured vs impedance.
@@RobotUnderground 2.83V into 4 ohm is 2 watts bro
P = V^2/R
(2.83)^2/4 = 2watt
@@manjulwalia1995 You're forgetting the R. What is the value of R? You adjust the input to the speaker according to the total voltage. You can do this with a DVM and a small capacitor. Used to do it in the 90's with everything from Radio Shack.
@@RobotUnderground bro.. I was actually thinking like ...
If one speaker is say , 95dB and we use two such speakers
Then its 98dB but then.. the individual speaker would take 1w each ... That's a total of 2 watts from the amp isn't it ??? Or is it just 1 watt and we get 98dB/m ? 😐
@@manjulwalia1995 Yes, 98db per 2.83v in either series or parallel.
Love how ur looking up blue waffle on one of your window tabs at the bottom of ur screen. Lol -real McCoy
hahah nah that's where he saved the picture!! lmfao
Well I do have a dessert called the Blue waffle taco. Blueberry waffle shaped like a taco. Filled with vanilla bean ice cream then topped with chocho shavings for the pubes.
I just dont see the point. Would you use the mid in a horn or some kind of wave guide?
No, that's dumb. You defeat the purpose of clean and clear vocals. I wouldn't use this driver for anything but mid bass.
I built a 4th order for 2 they sound phenomenal all around
Right but when you use bandpass, you get all kinds of other problems. Plus, you could have bought a pair of beefy 10's for that price.
@@RobotUnderground they are a novelty to me I love small subs / full range drivers I'm glad you posted your opinion about them helps me with figuring out why this 4th is so punchy 🤣🤣🤣
@@RobotUnderground
I think you missed the whole part in these woofers can be used in 2 ways. Your talking about a dedicated sub not one that can play up to 4k. How many 10-15s do that and sound decent
Maybe u need to order speakers from China and open your own national brand like parts express has done. Maybe charge much less and have people working for you for free
@@easylooker .. Maybe you should shit-In-your-hat. .. "We're having a discussion here!"
Further comment: I have seen these used as a midbass driver in a two-way speaker with a high-dollar, robust tweeter, and they do work. They are not what I would do for a design (for one thing I would not use such a large surround) but they are fairly usable if you don't need high sensitivity and can throw a lot of watts at them (compared with other midwoofers). I much prefer the approach taken by the Exodus/DIYSG Anarchy midwoofers.
BL is a product of two numerical quantities, field strength (B, tesla) and conductor length immersed in the field (L, meters) - the smaller magnets you have here are more common in small drivers for hi-fi and OEM car audio, and a smaller magnet makes less 'B', and then you have a certain number of turns of wire of a certain size that you can fit in the gap, and if the amount of turns can't increase to compensate for the loss of B then the BL product will be lower. BL of 9 isn't super high but it is never going to be as high as the BL products of large autosound subwoofers. The Dayton Audio Epique MMAG midwoofers are using "MMAG", a patent owned by Patrick Turnmire of Redrock Acoustics, which differs from XBL because it adds another layer of magnetic material between the first and second gaps to balance the flux in each gap. These drivers do have a short coil but they are not an "underhung" design because there is a B 'notch' between the upper and lower gap; an underhung driver has a continuous B profile in the gap. These are "brothers" of XBL but they are not using the XBL patent, so no royalties to Dan; the royalties go to Pat. I'm not sure if Enrique Stiles is still associated with Redrock, but he was a co-inventor of MMAG with Patrick, and the two of them are some of the "big brains" in audio consulting.
Do you build 8inch midbass drivers with 200 Rms power
He don't do 8s only for a couple of his friends
Yes Alex I'm building some quad stack 8-in woofers you can cross them up at about 70 Hertz to use them as dedicated midbass
The $ Price for 1 8inch midbass??? Thank you Brother 👍👍👍 you have a Bad ass Businesses God bless....
Where do i go to purchase on of your subwoofers?
Just text me with your budget and what amp you're working with and I can help narrow the search, 6023126504
@@RobotUnderground .. You're a Prince !! .. Application: '96 911 Carrera, need a solid 130mm mid-driver/bass speaker?.. The worlds best, if there is one. .. Again, Thanks! . The Dayton Audio Epique was a disjointed Bull Shit presentation.
@@michaelschneider- better to just use a oribase Shaker pro or something better it'll trick you into thinking that there's a big subwoofer in the car
Nice to see someone else on the Dynavox tip. I put a low budget system in a Jeep Liberty, including Dynavox 6.5" woofers ($11.00/each) in stock door locations, 2.75" Visaton wide band drivers in the dash. For subs, (2) old-school MTX 12" Terminator on a Kenwood amp off Craigslist for $50. Total system cost was around $100 * and my 16 year old nephew was thrilled. (Jeep is his) It took me a long time until I had a car audio system that sounded that good. Those 6.5" woofers sounded awesome and had a big-ass motor structure, paper cone with PVA coating. For $11.00 I can't think of anything that can beat 'em.
*head unit was donated and I contributed passive filter components and install of everything
But your local stereo shop said it sucks. How will you ever be cool??!!
Low sensitivity and high power rating really isn't an issue imo, if you split two of these drivers into a high excursion 8" 300w woofer and two 5-1/4 50w mid bass drivers you're back to square one in terms of power consumption and sensitivity.
You pay for squeezing the performance of a 2.1 system into a 2.0 system, for some that's worth the ~50% price hike.
Which model from Dynavox is better?
I like some of their tweeters. It depends on what you're trying to do. Text me direct and I can help, 6023126504
@@RobotUnderground i am interested in small size subwoofer or wofer speakers (4-5 inch)
@@szekerespista3758 Why? What's your application?
So wait. If you have magnet and it has a bump plate on it then you stack magnets on top of the bump plate and then add another bump plate. Doesnt that in effect cancel out the first bump plate? I think it almost kills the the magnativity of the first plate. By the way mcm electronics always had cheaper prices just not as much selection.
Draw it out on paper. And see what you come up with.
the smaller magnets draw the magnetic field to the top plate, so yes the field strength is less in both gaps compared to same magnet and using one gap. but this one has much higher linear excursion and distortion. at the cost of some efficiency.
Any suggestions for a woofer better or in par with this? In the dynavox portfolio? (Size : 5 to 8 inch?)
Depends on your application. What are you trying to build and where?
Dynavox is the shit
Why is everyone commenting about woofers and audio instead of the blue-waffle png on his desktop?
I was looking for someone else who noticed lol
mr robot does the dayton ultimax 18 is any good ?
It's alright if it's on sale.
The ultimax is a good woofer
Here in Europe these cost 130€ and for me in polish pln its around 600 so it is not cheap but i love drivers like this one and low bass (i know it is not good at all) and i want to build 6th order isobaric loaded bandpass box for two of these 20/5L 22/45Hz what do you think (also just before i clicked on ur vid i thought about this BL be so low becouse i ve seen that this woofer is not very stiff) what do you think about it? Are there any better 5,5 inch woofers that you think i should buy instead of these?? Greetings form Poland
You shouldn't be using small woofers is my advice.
@@RobotUnderground yeah that sucks but my goal here is to get as much low bass as possible with small box will se as i build it and its all about passion and i really dont mind what others say but from ,,logic,, side ur right
@@bassheadpolska9493 There are other solutions. Isobaric is dumb, bandpass is dumb. How large of a box can you fit?
@@RobotUnderground i dont have any limit of space just want to make that box with those speakers ;) in my room i have dayton ultimax 12 in 100L 20Hz box and it goes down to 16
If i say i have only 10L of space You Probably will tell me to put some 8inch in closed box huh? :D i am just looking for some crazy project to build something not boring
Why bandpass and isobaric is bad?
And to clear things up i want to build a isobaric bandpass so it is iso and bp at the same time
@@bassheadpolska9493 Sounds like you just need to jerk off and take on more responsibilities.
The excursion is mad in person 😎🥰
hm.... Adire Brahma 12" has SPL 84 db. So what is the point of your Criticism? Epic =83.3dB 2.83V/1m
That's very low too, however power handling is like 6x so you can still achieve your goal with more power which is cheap. Not so much on the Epique.
@@RobotUnderground hehe one is 12 inch one is 5..... so the 12 inch performs even worse then. also the box size would be waaaaaaaay larger to of the 12 inch
Have you actually heard it?
You're missing the point. Science says that it sucks and I believe the science. You're welcome to spend your money however you like.
@@RobotUnderground Just asking because the Opal 1 is getting pretty good reviews.
love seeing this break downs - please do more of these videos - Maybe do some videos on your favorite drivers 3 4 5 6 inch at parts express and madisound for the price.
Yes, Dayton makes that 1 1/8" dome tweeter with low Fs. I use the truncated version with the Mpyre mids I have.
Also, check this one out from MCM. www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-3550/8-carbon-fiber-die-cast-woofer/dp/40P9734
FWIW I think this MAY have a niche in car audio when space is at such a premium that you can't possibly fit a subwoofer cabinet anywhere in the car so the only course of action is to replace the stock woofers with these.
Of course I'm ASSUMING that the drivers aren't so tall that you can't even fit the drivers in the first place which means the ONE niche I could possibly think of for these drivers died on the spot.
That being said our 1986 toyota camry need a 5.5 inch woofer replacement since the stock ones are ruptured. I assume madisound... Or dynavox? probably have some nice budget drivers of that size.
Well, that's where I'd prefer a bass shaker than a woofer. No enclosure needed and your brain doesn't know the difference.
This is perfect for my car with factory sail panel sub box that fits 5.25 only have to trim a tiny bit I thought about doing 6.5 but that wouldn’t fit at all
@@rileyenia9388 I think you may want an Exodus Anarchy for that.
The more you know 💫
Lol watched that last night and was looking for your channel in the comments
www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-3550/8-carbon-fiber-die-cast-woofer/dp/40P9734
If you not going to give it the 200w rms then what is the point in even buying something at 200w rms buy something around 50w rms instead. Under powering can also hurt a woofer that's why most people give it rated power or over.
Sorry this is wrong information bud. The only thing that blows a sub is too much voltage. ua-cam.com/video/qCYRM9GfJZo/v-deo.html
@@RobotUnderground uhm well sort of both, if the ampl clips the woofer might see just DC, so no moving coil etc no more cooling..... so heat build up etc
I don't think it is all that bad. It's very hard to get a mid-bass driver of this size with this kind of Xmax performance so for a drop in sensitivity of a few dB it is a fair trade off ;)
Well I think there's drivers that perform the same or better for half the price.
@@RobotUnderground Like? I don't want to spend a $100 then
@@ashyouknow7420 Check the description.
@@RobotUnderground All right thanks:)
Looks like a miniature version of the D.S.S. Trident
Are we not gonna talk about the Hitler stash?
Who's got a Hitler stache?
Ah... Or the no teeth?
i cant say either, but have you personally had this driver in your hands and built with it? I dont trust their measurements, or any company really. the ultimax is the worst subwoofer i ever tested but that does not mean this one is bad. not chosing a side but before you say bad things, it is more credible to just get it and test it then rant. just saying!
As with any driver ever made, it has it's applications! You are ignoring what it is good for and labelling it as a mid bass which is incorrect. The driver from Newark you say is better for a woofer application has 1.5mm of Xmax!
At a fraction of the price. Same or better job. Hands down MCM is the winner.
XBL was designed by Adire audio back in the early 2000's.
You don't know how drivers are designed and you don't understand physics. There are trade offs. Name a 5.5" driver that can be tuned as low with higher BL and higher SPL.
Sorry, I'm too dumb to reply
Meh. I fully understand what you're saying but none of your cons listed kill the existence of this driver imo. As you well know, every driver is a compromise. Just because you dont agree with the compromises made doesnt mean that it literally shouldn't exist. Most importantly, my largest rebuttal is that watts are cheap as hell these days. Your first and main criticism was the BL and low sensitivity. I doubt anyone (knowledgeable) is using these in an application where a 5 watt tube amp is employed. Everyone's use case is different. Please don't misunderstand me your points are absolutely valid, just like the existence of the driver is valid for someone's individual use case. I've taken a look at the suggested "replacements" and some take a bit of a left turn if considering some specific uses for the driver. Finally (per a couple of your comments), no, more often than not transducers cannot replace an actual driver without noticing a difference in sound, assuming its in a balanced and somewhat linear sounding system. (Im assuming we're still assuming that the listener has the same listening abilities as you and I, otherwise your argument may actually be valid in the case of the average bass-head teenager)
I just think there are other solutions that are more affordable and the market will decide whether or not this thing should exist.
@@RobotUnderground understandable 👍🏾
Looking for more midbass in my Jeep with the top off and thought these were the ticket.
The search continues...Thanks for the vid.
Glad I could help. A bit pricey and deep. Better just to augment with some hearty 6x9's in enclosures. Keep long wires on them so you can put them on the roof when camping / at the river or lake.
I was intrigued when I watched the video, thought it was a neat driver, but then again I don't know the pros and cons of it. Good to know. Have you ever heard of Silver Flutes? Ive had a pair of the 6.5 versions in the front doors of my caravan for not quite a year. I replaced 6.5 pro mids I thought were decent but the flutes were wayyyy better. They have a wool composite cone, it looks nice at the very least. They have a cast frame and a Decent sized motor. I only have just those on 75x2 amp in a 3 way setup But I paid $35 each I think at madisound so not bad for decent speaker.
I LOVE the Silver Flutes from Madisound!!! Great drivers. My other all time favorite is an 8" from MCM...err, was since they went belly up. But the parent company still imports them. www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-3550/8-carbon-fiber-die-cast-woofer/dp/40P9734
@@RobotUnderground another surprisingly decent speaker I bought from a parts express 2 closeout Dyna Lab 8" v22 for $9 each I bought for a boombox build, I also used an 8" Goldwood poly cone subwoofer for $8 closeout at the time now it's back I think for like $20, the sub in 1.25 sealed has nice clean full sound in 40-50s but 30s at even lower volume it starts getting out of shape quick, but the dyna labs in .75 sealed are lout and clean with good mid bass. I read somewhere dyna lab was a white van brand...? But these were great and fact PE was selling em...got me. It's all on one of those popular 2.1 board amps on 15A 24v Amazon power supply. It gets pretty loud n sound good, but not as loud as my original boombox with 6.5 eastech woofers 3" Dayton mid and cheap paper tweets in 1cf each on old 3 way Kenwood truck speaker crossover with $25 head unit and an back in the day cheap car parts store audiovox rampage (maaaaaybe 80x2) "1200.2" on switching 12v 20A Amazon power supply, it really does crank.I think diy Boomboxes are really cheap fun way to play with car audio parts and learn and try different stuff...Sorry for long comment🤭
@@95Sn95 I love turning deals like that into high value objects. Sounds like you do too! Post or text me pics, 6023126504
Today power is cheap, . . .
I see more of a problem with the current flowing at Fb and the low efficiency , in combination with a relative short coil , lots of power compression ..... and which port can handle the volumetric displacement requirement?
So you need a large passive radiator of good quality , or two smaller ones (mutual pertubation problem) .
But visually very attractive , price is too high!
Btw - how long do these Santoprene surrounds lasting? I assume no one can repair this driver because there is no replacement surround to get anywhere .
ALMA association tried several times to standardize surround sizes but no luck . It seems the manufactures do not want the repair option for their customers , they are the masters , we are their consumer slaves , welcome to planet HELL!
Makes me sick how we are treated here , really .... fuck it!
On the nose.
Many drivers you can’t get proper surrounds for anyway- they usually seem too stiff and heavy, especially rubber surrounds
Tru n there $price to much 🥺🥺🥺
www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-3550/8-carbon-fiber-die-cast-woofer/dp/40P9734
These things are built very thin (today). Under high loads you can hear air blowing through the carbon fiber weave. I recently bought a few of these and the passive variants, they all behave this way. Compared to the SB Acoustics cf woofer line, it's night/day quality. The SB cf is thicker and has a felt layer on the backside to reduce unwanted breakup/resonance associated with cf. Performance tho, is pretty silly for a driver this size. I built a SIX liter sub with a single 5.5" and dual passives. In-room response is strong down to 24hz. It's hilarious for it's size Lol. The passives all have different resonances tho, I had to fine tune weights on each to get them to match. I think there's a manufacturing consistency challenge with this product line...
Great work.
what's up with Chris P's face?
Chris has no teeth.
Is the Alpine DDLinear woofer XBL^2? I know it uses 2 magnets in the motor to help with linearity. (the tweeter also has 2 magnets but 2 coils, one inside the other) They have the most insane bass I've ever experienced, I actually have a 6dB HPF at 200hz and have dead flat response down to 40hz before slowly rolling off in my stock front doors. I haven't heard the term before. Subbed. ua-cam.com/video/ycSGqDy4x3E/v-deo.html
It might have used the same tech but was a failure as far as product success goes. I thought they only made them as mids.
Text me a link, 6023126504
Thank you SOOOOOOO much for your insight! I'm some what an old school bass car audio guy, but I love stealth hi-mid power systems. I'm new to Dayton and was researching the he'll outta these for low bass in a stealth setup! So glad I ran across your 'TUTORIAL'!!!! You saved me some $$$ and headache! Can I get your opinion on the 'Tang Band W5-1138SMF 5-1/4"? Thanks Man!!!!! ✌🏾❤✊🏾
Any of those small drivers are very applications specific. I think I can help you better if you let me know what you're trying to do
tell me more about the project
@@RobotUnderground I'm looking for a small bass (around 50hz) subwoofer to install in a stealth/compact enclosure setup for a car. Specific a 2nd gen Toyota MR2 MK2 SW20. Building a custom enclosure to put in the cabinet space hidden behind the seat. Or maybe use the factory enclosure which the stock sub was a 5.25" driver.
@@BroVCam I would recommend a tactile transducer instead. I have something like this for $45 shipped. amzn.to/3cO7tkT It's 4 ohm and only needs 50wrms. Maybe a bass knob to control the level and that's it.
Ok, thanks for all the recommendations. Let me research a bit more and I'll reach back out to you!!!
So you are saying it's nad because it has a low sensitivity and that's it? You say that while you sell "great subs" with a Qts of above 0,8 or something....
Dude those are tiny woofer's and some fancy scan speak 5,5inch woofer doesn't have a higher BL It has higher sensitivity though then again it has half the moving mass and isn't a woofer with 14mm xmax.
Stop talking about things you don't know enaugh about to make such comments!
Make a video numbnuts
@@RobotUnderground About you? lol
Sure. put me in a video game.
@@RobotUnderground A video game? What has that to do with anything? Are you high?
If you're going to talk bad words, will not watch your videos
Bye Felecia!
Dayton is mostly crap. They are only into profit , I use to drive to there store once a month back in the 90's from Tennessee to get my supplies of eminence drivers , then I met a guy that worked in the sales department of eminence and then only had to drive to eminence Kentucky. Other than that I drove to madisound speakers in Wisconsin.
No. They still have some gold nuggets. But check out this driver, www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-3550/8-carbon-fiber-die-cast-woofer/dp/40P9734
I love this one. www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DC28FT-8-1-1-8-Silk-Dome-Truncated-Tweeter-275-076
@@RobotUnderground you are right . I sold my line array speakers I built back in 2004 using 8 of those carbon fibers per speaker , I mated them to 54 inch tall BG ribbon line source midhighs with a 3rd order on the 8 inch and a 4rth order on the ribons at 1250 hertz. They were awsome speakes , no matter where you sat in the room they imaged like crazy . And had tons of spl without them breaking a sweat. . And the truncated 28 mm Dayton domes I used in alot of designs for my customers that could not afford morels or dynaudio.
Everybody. Is all off bace. HELLO !!! ITS MUSIC!!!!, WHO GIVES A CRAP ABOUT ALL YOUR COMPUTOR GRAPHES.. IF YOU LIKE IT , AND TOYOU IT ROCKS,, GO FOR IT... EVRYBODY. S. EARS HEAR DIFFERANT
its junk ...always have been...you want sound ,,go for fosgate!!!!
Rockford is over priced. Try this one instead. www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-3550/8-carbon-fiber-die-cast-woofer/dp/40P9734