Dayton Epique Drivers - A New Classification Woofer? Talk with Chris Perez
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- Опубліковано 16 сер 2021
- #epique #diyaudio #daytonaudio
Today I sit down and talk with Chris Perez of Dayton audio about their new Epique line drivers. According to Chris, these really should have a new classification. They can hit subwoofer levels while still playing well into a two way crossover point. Are these drivers really that Epique? Come find out why Chris thinks they are.
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Epique 5.5" bit.ly/2VK5GEM
Epique 7" bit.ly/3gceDOy
Chris did a great job of explaining the technical design aspects of these drivers.
You had my attention at "Dayton"
Seems like all I look at these days is Dayton speakers.
I wonder I'd the 5.25" woofer will fit in my cars door. Then I just need to choose a Dayton tweeter (have a few lined up to choose from already) and get some DSP for active crossovers and have fun tweaking it. (With a cap on the tweeter to at least protect it from any possible pops or something like that)
@@JoshM7 dude that's exactly what Hi-Fi Vega said!
@@Toid Hahaha that's awesome!
@@JoshM7 hi
Really appreciate you bringing us the new products, and covering them in an intelligent manner. 👌
Fantastic, I look forward to some designs with these.
Instantly want to try one out. This was great!
A nice honest technical assessment of the Dayton driver.
Holy, oh my… just when I was designing a new enclosure but wanted a driver to design around..well, I think I just found them. I need to look up the Thiele Smalls real fast and if the overall Q is good to go I’m def grabbing some.
I wonder if they’re conducive to my love for Fountek’s AMT’s or if I need to go with a matched Morel Softie…. Hmmm.
Such an evocative thought experiment these present….. plus they look so damn good. Too bad the price of my wood is going to be the most expensive part at the moment lol.
Nice. I'm half way into a 2way build with these. I started with 10" mklll Titanic's first, which sound awesome foremost with music. Short story longer, those lead me on to these and I was not expecting to use the Epique this way, but to cover low notes in my 1980 elky lol.
Omg. I am so excited for these speakers. If you know me TOID you know just where I want to put these. 😂
Purify has focused alot on the rubber suspension also to eliminate distortion from its behavior.
To keep SD stable with cone movement.
Very informative
my 7" came today, love the free overnight shipping, I get being relatively close to parts express! put up a quick vid of it moving around. I need to build a test enclosure for it to give an opinion but it looks good so far.
I just watched the video. Thanks for sharing! For anyone that missed it: ua-cam.com/video/SxHBIa9F0WY/v-deo.html
Any ideas for a TM design like the Amiga by Paul Carmody?
I kind of wish they made these in 8". I love the carbon fiber. I have an 8" RS HO on the way which was half off restocked though. Ill be running that with a passive radiator. Excited to assemble it.
Modeling the 7” epique in WinISD @150w input you can get 107db peak at 40hz with an f3 of 35hz without exceeding xmax
Box size and port size?
Can it do the 20s like it claims??
Hopefully some people start to use these in some 2/3 way designs and come up with something special..I'd love to see 2 of the 7" with a tweeter in a large floor stander..
Well I just got four of the five and a half inch in. So I plan to make some floor standing skinny MTM towers with them.
@@Toid
Sounds good. Im assuming you will post up a video of them when your done..What tweeters are thinking? Any plans to do something with the 7"drivers to get some big sounding towers?
@@Aaron.13 Not at this time. Maybe later. Right now, I really wanted to work on a thinner MTM tower. I ended up deciding on the CSS LD25x tweeters.
@@Toid i would love to see that... good informative video!!
if you want insane power in a slim floor stander i would chose two RS100(P) for the midrange with a tweeter in MTM configuration and let two epique do the bass up to 350Hz.
Kinda wanna stick like 10 of these into a bass guitar cab with some tweeters and see if I can get a true FRFR enclosure for live sound/amp modelling. Not sure if they would work in that application
I'm sold!
Am I the only one who saw this as a true Focal 13 WS replacement? Seems like it can do just about everything that the 13 WS could do, but better and for 20% of the price.
Very interesting. I'm in car audio and the x max is captivating....thinking the 7" in isobaric setup.....
Look amazing! Well priced to.
These days an isobaric alignment is often just a waste of resources.
There was a time when sub drivers struggled in typical box volumes... and isobaric enables two motors to mate well in a given box volume.
That Dayton motor doesn't need much help overcoming a small box volume (the only reason to pursue isobaric sub).
@@FOH3663 I like the control the amp has over the drivers, yes it's inefficient but I'm after sq.
I can afford to play....😊
@@craigbarrett2278
Hell yeah, SQ all the way!
But there's no such amp/driver control advantage.
Isobaric is just a decades old hold-over from old dudes like me, ... back before we had all these powerful drivers to choose from.
- Isobaric simply operates as if it were a single driver with double the mass and half the Vas.
The only advantage is the ability to utilize a smaller box volume... that's it.
Both drivers are stroking away, yet you only benefit from the output of one.
Instead, if you allow both drivers to output into the room/car, you gain the output of the second driver, thus lowering distortion, raising output SPL.
I've experimented with all types of alignments.
And it's certainly cool if you're down with experimentation... but other than learning, no performance advantages should be expected.
Aesthetically, I always thought a dual opposed isobaric sub in a clear acrylic tube would look bad-ass... ie., clear tube with two drivers face to face at each end.
Plastic sucks, it deforms etc., but a cylinder possesses a lot of strength a resistance to flex. Plus, dual opposed = zero mechanical vibration.
Reminds me of focal woofer magnet design
This might make a good subwoofer for my camper!
+1. .. Ordered a pair to audition first hand... The 5 inch Dayton Epique just might find a home in Porsche's 911 (993) Carrera; 1994 thru 1998. W/ option (#490) HiFi door speaker boxes.. ? Maybe? .. Go Fully Active in any car audio renovation .......
I'd probably put a pair of these in our 1986 Camry. But I think I'd have to trim the frame into a square in order to fit.
Edit: specially since space is at a HUGE premium in that thing. It has plenty space for the passengers and VERY little for anything else.
Very interesting 👌
i have the 7" version in my wireless bt speaker that i made myself, very cool woofer. i have yt short about the speaker but it had shitty amp back in the day, now im running the sub at 200W and mids at around 100W
I would love to build a dual or even flat form quad with these for my SUV if i had the box design parameters. Publish a couple box designs for us pleebs Toid! 😁. Maybe even a tiny push/pull dual? 🤩
SUV too big. You’d need a wall of these!
I'm learning! Thank you! I want to do an experiment. I have a paradigm studio 60-v3 which is 20 years old. It has a tweeter- mid- low frequency driver. If I bought 2 of these E180HE speakers to replace the Mid and low frequency drivers. would I need 2 different crossovers? 1 crossover tuned as a mid and 1 tuned as low frequency? I'm having a blast learning and looking to do an experiment for a weekend relaxation
Very interesting
rms power kind of high 200, im guessing they get kinda loud lol like 100+ plus decibels for the 5 inch and 110db+ for the 7 inch at 40hz. good for wiring up, you can go to 2 ohms or 8 load, or just one coil on 4 ohms, but one mistake that dayton audio always makes is that they use the same magnet on all the speaker sizes, 5 inch and the 7 inch have the same magnets, so the qts is higher on the 7 inch, therefore both the 5 and the 7 viriant will sound different, if this was available a year ago i would of tried these out instead... i bought a tang band w6 6.5 inch subwoofers ferrite magnet, 11.5mm xmax, the neo magnet version has 13mm xmax, and what i like about their subwoofers is that going from 4 inch to 5 inch to 6 inch and to 8 inch variant, the magnets get bigger and stronger to maintain a low qts, that's what i like about them, but they havent been innovating much lately,
Question, would they be suitable for a H structure OB sub ? 7" doesn't sound overly large woofers for a sub !!!
I can see this design being used in car audio 12: subs that would be insane in performance/sound.
Having push terminals would make it more appealing to be honest. I understand at low power, it doesn't matter as much, but it's about quality of connection.
I really like push terminals as well.
Would you replace your Tangbands in the Dinas setup with these?
Dayton Audio sells impressive stuff.
1st!
I would love to see Chris produce a tower version of his C-Note bookie, either in a 2.5 way or 2-way with a passive radiator for $200-250 a pair including all the hardware needed. I would buy a pair in a hot minute.
That would be sweet! The only thing is they don't really need a lot of space for just one woofer. So you can easily build just a two way bookshelf with these.
That would be sweet. That's one thing that we didn't mention either. If you really want to use these for a subwoofer and you want to go real low, you almost would need a passive radiator.
Dang! I wanted to be first! You beat me to it
I want do it too... not sure I will be able to keep the price that low, but I'll see what I can do.
These drivers seem amazing!
I completely agree. I was really shocked with some of the results.
I built two mini subs in .30 c.f. sealed cabinets using the 7" drivers and love them for near field listening. Clean, deep and musical. Great work Dayton!
Reminds me of a set of 15”subwoofers I seen 20 years ago dude was playing everything threw them and they took it I don’t know how but they bumped and played highs 🤦🏼♂️ been 20 years so not everybody knew what subs was for they just thought well it’s a speaker, hook a amp to it and go. This one had a old 30 band EQ looked like a CB hanging from the dash but I think he may have been some what tuning it a little with that thing! Not sure may have just been on some 6x9’z he had in there to! Either way it got loud.
Google “audio Nirvana” one speaker plays it all.
You had me at mustache
the thing has more x-maxx then some subwoofers that are out there , with that much motor strength it's going to make an excellent application for an under-seat subwoofer
Yeah, I saw these and thought, wow, the possibilities! I hope they do a 8, 10 or 12 to get a bit lower tuning.
I'm hoping for a 15 😁. Can you imagine something like two of those paired with a compression driver set up like a jtr? Now that would be insane 😲! But seriously, eight 10 or 12 like this would be unreal.
@@Toid yeah 15s would be insane!
What about some 3 inch with like 8 mm Xmax
wow, I'm seeing those as a front sub in an SQ build in my car!
did you build it ?
Hi Nick , when are you going to build a 2 way with this driver ?
Epic indeed.
The Bl part reminded me your other video from Kartesian.
Great call!
Okay I need Jim Holtz to update the statements using these in the 7inch.
Those are beautiful.
Want to try these with an AMT
Can these work in a car audio setup?
Those look nice!
Don't they? I might need to get some in for some projects.
Would like to see a ten inch sub
It would be nice if they had larger sizes in these.
Imagine a 15 or 18 inch model😍 it would literally be comparable with the deafbonce Apocalypse series.
How do these drivers do as a “music only” sun to compliment some small high quality monitor speakers in the near field. Looking to cross over around 100 hz.
Time for Uglies 2.0 with the 7? What do you think?
I am curious how these would be wired in a 2-way - with two voice coils? I would look at a 2-way with a single 7" in a MLTL enclosure.
Takk!
Kinda reminds me of the Anarchy midbass woofer.
Where is the frequency to power impedance curve?
great woofers. need to earn more money to buy them in future
Sounds similar to the PuriFi, but those are WAY more expensive than the Epique.
Where would the coil be centered vertically? Typically centered in the middle of the top plate. Would this be Half way between both plates what I would assume or oddly centered on one plate or the other.
The flux in the gap between the two plates is identical, so the coil is centered between the two plates.
Does Chris P know he's internet famous in "our world"? Who hasn't read his replies to Q&As on hundreds of PA products?
Haha! That is so true! Best comment if the day!
Ha ha ha!
Makes me wonder how these drivers would do in a transmission line enclosure.
I wish you would have asked him why they discontinued the Epique E220CF-8 8" Carbon Fiber Cone Neodymium Driver 8 Ohm?
I am building a portable speaker with as good of bass as possible, but somewhat new to design. I am wondering why would someone pick the Epique 5.5” over the Tang Band W5-1138SM? The Epique QTS and X-max? Not trying to start a fight- these are just the 2 top contenders for my build (unless someone knows of something better for size and lowness).
The Epique have more xmax and can handle 4 times the power AND you can use it as a 2 way woofer..
It's all about application. I think the epique would have better performance but it also has a huge bulky magnet and would probably not be best for portable applications. Just my 2 cents
Basically a woofer-subwoofer hybrid
Would these pair well with the peerless xt25sc90?
At first look, it might be. I'm not sure about the distortion graph on that tweeter. For a few more dollars, I would probably just go with the 60 instead. I linked it in the description.
Thank you for the video. Really enjoyed it.
It was odd to hear Perez say that there is a copper sleeve in the motor, since the impedance rises quickly and steeply. Also, inductance is high - Le 1.5 mH @ 1 kHz. What am I missing here?
In actuality the inductance is quite low for the Epique drivers. The spec sheet does list an Le of 1.6 mH, however you have to remember that that was with the voice coils wired in series. The Le of each coil is actually 0.5 mH, due to mutual inductive coupling inductance doesn't increase at a linear rate when intertwined coils are wired in series.
@@chrisperez7592 Thank you for the clarification
@@379rale I have noticed a few people mentioning that the impedance rises quickly while comparing the Epique 7" to the PURIFI PTT6.5X08-NFA-01.
From looking at the impedance on the PURIFI PTT6.5X08-NFA-01 spec sheet it appears that the impedance reaches 16 ohms (double the 8 ohm rating) right around 6,000 Hz.
With the coils wired in series, the impedance for the E180HE-44 also reached 16 ohm right at 6,000 Hz also.
Both drivers reach 20 ohms at 10,000 Hz also.
I'm not quite sure why these comparisons are being made... I think it just appears that way because the scaling in different on our impedance curve.
@@chrisperez7592 Maybe. I don't know... But, I wasn't thinking about the PURIFI. When I hear 'full coper sleeve' I expect to see a nearly flat curve, like Peerless and SB Acoustics drivers have.
Plus, I'm only interested in what it does till about 2K.
www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-6-7-woofers-sb-acoustics/sb-acoustics-sb17nrx2c35-8-6-woofer-paper-cone-new-version-8-ohm/
I have a w5 tangband but now i m jealous
Haha! I knew what you mean.
I know the feeling. 🤣
im gonna fkn figure out how to put these in my car doors
Where's their new 18" subwoofer?
I couldn't help but to think scanspeak
seeing these as killer midbass drivers for cars. how would these do in ib applications?
Thats exactly what Im trying do. Saw them on parts express, and trying to figure it out now.
I wish they had a diy kits with them
Interesting you say that. I went to the door today and found a box sitting on my doorstep. I was surprised to see that it was from Parts Express because I hadn't ordered anything. Inside were four of these epic five and a half inch drivers. So when I get a chance to build these, I'll make sure to have some plans for you guys.
I really like those drivers I can't wait to see the build I would like to see a kits with those and nice tweeter and crossover!! I'd buy it
hey look Blues audio speakers....oh wait they are Daytons? hahaha this has already been done, great speakers but just near copies of Blues/Linear power, I have them sitting the the garage right now lol, the old 1991 6.5's and 10.5s, these are just those
Wouldn’t Doppler distortions be too high?
Whats that?
@@roygriend5143 using as a mid range with high excursions from the bass?
CDT has a similar woofer
They look like made from Kartesian :o
How much cost in Indian money
Under-hung or over-hung voice coil? That is the question...
It's overhung, isn't it.
Well, the distance between the top of the upper plate and the bottom of the lower plate is about 25 mm... the voice coil is about 20 mm. (I don't have the exact dimension right off hand)
So, these would be considered underhung voice coils.
Go Sawx!
Best comment ever! You definitely win the internet 😀
Too bad they don't have a 176mm basket (6-1/2") like the Purifi PTT6.5 or SEAS W18EX Graphene...
I greatly appreciate the work and results from the Dayton, but no it's not on the same level as Purify woofers. Pricing aside, Purify has spectacularly and consistently low distortion throughout the usable range. Dayton is roughly OK in the midrange, but not there yet.
This is not surprising though. Purify addressed issues in transducers on many levels, with great attention to detail, sometimes at high material and labor expense. It's quite obvious that Dayton doesn't have an intention to get there, or else the pricing would match or at least get very close to Purify.
Too big for my doors😫 . They look BadAss
Very inefficient. 83db/1W@1m
How do you match that with a tweeter in a 2 way?
L pad.
@@analogkid4557 a terrible but effective solution
I can't stop staring at his RGB over the kitchen cabinets. I'm a crow.
They are awesome, aren't they?
Lol...Over cabinet, under cabinet, and toe kick. Here you go: ua-cam.com/video/7uCCzMoTUjg/v-deo.html
@@chrisperez7592 Nice. Those are industrial grade.
This is amid
DINAS DX?
I like where your head is at
@@Toid Wonder if IDNAS would be a better name actually.
Bass become with 12"
I bet nick lemons likes this.
Eigentlich sind beide Exemplare "Mega Treiber". Nur sind die "TSP" so ungünstig ( Vas viel zu klein ) das eine vernünftige Bassreflex Abstimmung quasi unmöglich ist. Da nützt ein "Xmax 14" nur wenig.
You would have to use a passive radiator.
its Homer
That dude look funny as hell!!
snoop dog ya no fuma
they look cool but really, so you are appearing to try to combine neo with a traditional magnet, sorry but that just is absolutely counter productive
All the magnets are ferrite on these Epique drivers.
Actually, ferrite mixed with neo can work rather well in some instances... For example, Morel has had a lot of success with thier hybrid motor drivers.
Ditto Chris on the magnet mix, magnetism is magnetism - depends what the designer needs to accomplish... like weight vs field strength etc.
The only downside to these things is their low 84-85 dB sensitivity....
small rating on the b/l there and u have a mid that's designed like a subwoofer but without the magnet
my issue is the epique woofers often discontinue on a regular basis and its IMPOSSIBLE to have long term builds with them
These drivers are really low BL. Not good.
9.8 is really low??? That's state of the art for 7"
gimmick as fuck lol, sorry you are trying to gimmick up what Blues audio already does, funny how they always win SQ titles