1997 Honda Civic Type R EK9 vs 2023 Honda Civic Type R FL5 - Head to Head Review!
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- The latest generation FL5 Civic Type R is undoubtedly one of the most capable front wheel drive performance cars ever, but let's see if it shares even a shred of DNA with the original, 8400 RPM, JDM EK9 Civic Type R.
Correction: the EK9 is a 1997 model year, not 1999 as stated in the video.
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Owner of the EK9 here. at the time of this video was shot, I was dailying an FK8 and as luck would have it, my FK8 got stolen recently so I very recently just bought an FL5. Happy to answer questions as well
Is the EK CA legal?
@@litochris no. the process of taking this through G&K's process is unappealing to me at the moment. I got quoted for 10k so I explored other options. registering it with WA made the most sense to me. I know someone else in CA recently got theres through G&K and its something I would consider but im fine with the way it is now
Sorry to hear the fk8 got stolen, my only hesitation to buy older gen cars is that you can't park it anywhere. I hope you took necessary precautions to safe guard it, at the very least kill switch
FL5 or F80 M3?
@@ryu6998 i also own an AP2 so all of my anti theft efforts (and garage spaces) goes to these two cars. but yeah it’s unfortunate that both older and newer gen hondas have trouble with with theft. i’m throwing the kitchen sink for theft deterrents at all my cars now
It's annoying reading all the "it's not worth 30k" comments. Cars like this are an emotional purchase. Sure, you can buy something faster with the same amount of money but it won't necessarily put as big of a smile on your face every time you drive it. If you aren't competitively racing, then it makes sense to buy something you get the most enjoyment out of rather than what you can go the fastest in. The EK9 looks like the more fun car to drive than the FL5. There is a lot of value in that and it's not something you'll be able to find in a newer car.
The fact that I’m tempted to save up for an EK9 or 1986-1987 Toyota Corolla Levin 3Door or 2Door GT-V or GT-APEX AE86 Kouki (the one with the grill fitted fog lamps) I know exactly what you mean. Sure, there are brand new cars like the ZN8, ND3 & FL5 that I would buy but man oh man there’s nothing quite like an older car they are just so special! Heck, there’s a reason why I have owned 3 Miata’s & multiple golden age Hondas up to this point!
I get it, problem for me is mainly how it’s called a civic, to me these (fk8 and fl5) feel more like cl7 euro r successors
that's some sweet noise from the ek9. i understand why the turbos are here but damn, what a difference
Pretty confident that this 90s ek9 will outlive that FL5
Hard to say. The FL5 does have a K-series, which is extremely well proven at this point. The real killer of these cars is the owners. It is almost impossible to find an EF/EG/EK that hasn't been molested to death. A clean DX is hard to find, let alone an Si, and forget about a Type R. It's probably pretty inevitable that the hacking and bolt stripping and subwoofing and slamming are going to steadily deplete the FK8 and FL5 populations in time as well.
@@JETZcorp I guess only time will tell.
EK9 type R for me hands down with a DC2R engine swap. A Honda type R needs 2b 2 door and NA
If honda would of kept the FIT chassis going, and enhanced it to modern stiff ness, add the 2.0T and LSD, Suspension, They can sell it like HOT CAKES! FK8 and FL5 is too big, I am an FK8 owner and don't get the joy of driving it like I do in S2000. Most of the reason being the Size of it. I'm considering a GR86 simply because the feel of 90's/2000 car outweighs absolute performance.
I own a fit and completely agree! Such a great stiff chassis with wonderful steering. I plan on modifying the crap out of mine and K swapping it to make the Fit type R Honda never did. 😊
GR looks nice on the paper but engine is something i would avoid
This car has ROD linkage, and not cable linkage for the shifter.
“That was interesting”
Somewhere else on UA-cam
“Hey a type R”
Awesome! BTW, the EK9 is a 97 model. You can tell because it has the early (zenki) front end and tail lights.
You're right, thanks! Fixed the title.
There was no 1997 EK9. This is the first model year of EK9 which was 1998. You can tell from the front end and the rear tail lights, also the center console and of course the frame number which starts EK9-100. 1999 were EK9-110 and 2000 were EK9-120. They started production in september 1997 for the 1998 model year so there are some cars first registered in 1997 but model year is always 1998. Same for 1999 and 2000 model year. They ended production in August 2000.
@@nfspeedy2@nfspeedy2 This is also incorrect; I bid on several 97's and landed an early 98. Even Honda's genuine 30th Anniversary Poster shows the 97 EK9, along with the late 95 ITR.
@@jasonnicholspdx go to a Honda dealership and speak to an employee of the spare parts department. Let him type your frame number into the web epc which you think is a 97 model year. It will show the model year at the bottom line. Every Honda dealer can provide this information. Even if he dont know. They only have to type in the correct frame number style like EK9-100 and 4 other digits.
@@nfspeedy2 this is a 1997. i think fenton just got it wrong but i told him it’s a 97
I’ve never owned an EK9 Type R but I grew up on high-revving Hondas from the 90’s, and I now drive an FL5. They are VERY different cars but it’s by necessity considering the progression in technology and its competition. If Honda wanted to make a modern EK9 equivalent today I think it would essentially end up being the FL5.
So you’re saying a Type R is a Type R. Lol
"If Honda wanted to make a modern EK9 equivalent today" Fit Si/Type R is technically feasible isn't it? (Civic Si drivetrain in Fit) 😁With CAFE footprint rule for MPGs and Honda North America not happy with the profit margins on subcompacts it wouldn't work out in North America though. In Europe most of the cars in this segment have been discontinued though (Fiesta ST (the newer one), Peugeot 208 GTi, RenaultSport Clio, Vauxhall Corsa VXR), only the Polo GTI and Suzuki Swift Sport are still in production unless I'm mistaken.
@@19hundoc47 I’m trying to address what I hear a lot of people saying, “the FL5 does not FEEL like a Type R.” Well, no, it doesn’t feel like a 90’s Type R but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t one.
The closest thing they could do would be to take the 4th Gen Fit, strip it out and run it with a turbo L15.
To me the fl5 is more like a cl7 type r successor
The double wishbone suspension makes a difference. I wish this was on the ep3 jdm type R.
Oh man you need to drive a proper crx that would be awesome
Hate to be that guy but an over 100k mile ek9 is not worth 30k USD. There’s many clean under 100k mile examples available in Japan for 20k. Shipping and import costs shouldn’t be more than 5k usd. Get them before they’re marked up by greedy importers/ dealers
No there isn't....
Get real please
The cheap ones in Japan are ex track cars that are often messed with to hide their history
@@ArtVandelayOfficial and this one isn’t? This looks more beat than the cleaner examples I see. I saw a recent silver EK9 with no accident history, 82,000 kms (51k miles), bone stock for 22k USD shipped. Do your research what they sell for at auctions. Get real
Love the look of the new type r so much. But the pumped in sound is so offensive I couldn’t ever do it. Love the EK9!
Sure there's a fuse you can pull to turn it off, gti people and Si people have the same gripes lol
You're consistently delivering the most interesting and best comparison reviews and that's coming from someone with over 100 automotive channels subscriptions.
I rented an ek9 while I was in tokyo and agree, that little car is amazing
which site should i look for to rent that ek?
@ekidlab1645 I used NRT rentacar. They pick you up from narita airport so it's convenient, and the owner speaks pretty good English
@@magicwaffl3z Thanks! But the ek has been listed 'retired' now , bummer.
@@ekidlab1645 damn I wonder why, I literally was just driving it less than a month ago. Bummer
In the '90s, Honda was at the pinnacle of their performance, often outmaneuvering competitors with turbocharged engines through superior handling. Watching Best Motoring videos was an entertaining experience that converted me into a Honda fan. Initially, Honda adhered to Soichiro Honda's philosophy, but over time, it seemed to lose touch with the enthusiast base that shaped its identity. The company began phasing out models like the Prelude and the Integra, and the Type Rs disappeared. Honda shifted towards becoming a "white goods" company, as a consequence, I have not purchased another Honda car. At present, Toyota is doing what Honda of old used to do, developing and looking after the enthusiast part of the market.
Id rather an Integra type r but that thing would be insanity on a track with some minor mods
Great comparison video, I completely agree about what you said about the FL5 at the end when compared to the competition.
*1930’s car passes by*
“That was interesting”. 💀(watched in 1.25x speed)
There's the legendary EK9 CTR....and there are a bunch of imitations
EK9, my childhood hero
FL5 is carrying the Type R torch just fine. Still one of the greatest if not the greatest hot hatch of the current crop. Gonna have to get you to drive one with Pro Kits w/ cut bump stops, 18" wheels and PRL rear motor mount. That seems to be the magic formula to alleviate the choppy stock ride and much of the wheel hop on hard acceleration.
Hatch ? This thing looks like a dodge charger.
@@br3xk0ff it has a hatchback its quick, therefore it's a hot hatch. Not sure what's unclear here. Not every hot hatch has to have a profile like a wagon.
@@br3xk0ff looks and fits perfectly sized in real life, also 1200lb less than a charger
@@STORM3SHADOW It’s the same size as an opel vectra liftback or a nissan primera.Which were a weight class above and could fit a whole family.This is not my definition ot “hot” hatch (because it looks like a**).
Fantastic review... I rented an FD2 when I was visiting Japan and loved the K20A in that - 220 HP maxing out all the way to 8600 rpm.
FD2's 2800 lb felt pretty light to me as I'm used to 3300 lb of my Subaru STI. I can't even imagine how light 2300 lb would feel like.
So glad you enjoyed the EK
Even with such low torque you picked up on all it's qualities
its a 5 speed, with direct mechanical rod linkage. no cables.
Such a BIG disapointment that Honda made fake engine speaker sounds!!! Shame on you Honda they should have made so you could hear the real engine and make it sound good! Ek9 is just epic and it has the same amazing Momo steering wheel as the Accord Type R Ch1 and Ferrari 550 and Maserati and another car brand i don't remember. Great video 🤘
EK9 and FL5, happy life
I can’t not see a Crosstour in the new gen
That Noble looked like an M12 or an M400.
always great content!
VTEC always wins
Straight fax
Thank you for nice video. I like EK9. FL5 is great but EK9 is very primitive, type-R of type-R. FL5 is like European GT.
Stock EK9 suspension is more stiffer than the TEIN one but not as low. The damper is shockingly stiff and unforgiving. 😅 Got the suspension in my EK3 including the rear sway bar.
I have a FK8 type R and I had a 2008 civic SI before that and i do kind of miss that high revving nature of my SI I could wind it up to almost 9 grand and just beat the heck out of it always and it never let me down. I obviously don’t regret getting my type R but it is way different. My SI was beautiful lil lowered coupe I miss it. Wish I would’ve kept both
I think the EK9 was part of the perfect era of cars. They were light, raw, cheap (relatively), and simple. They made good noises and had accessible performance. Most sports cars were not so fast that you couldn’t enjoy them at or near the limit.
We have a ton of cool cars now but for a fun drive I’d rather have the older ones.
Mans literally said "shifter cables"
Sorry Zygrene, the B/D series cars are all solid shifter rods aka a proper shift linkage. Cables are junk in the feel department and the rods feel better and are more direct as long as the bushings have been upgraded or replaced.
Hey Fenton, what do you think of the ek9 ctr vs e46 m3? Which would you pick?
I'd rather have that REAL sporty type R ek9 vs that big ugly bloated 4 door family sedan
All the complaints from the Ek with no torque and being in the powerband yada yada yada could be rectified by the letter K ., it has always been the way 😊
Ridiculous how Civics have been getting bigger and fatter over the years. damn mainstream consumers
Where's this road and what is it's hwy #?
Babe wake up, Zygrene uploaded!
What has happened to style? The latest one looks too long and ungainly, and the 4 door grandma econobox look is really bad.
Could you do 918 spyder next?
Might as well do 918 Spyder vs P1. Im also cross shopping both at the moment.
Ok can you find me one
Lmao you act as if those are super common and as if owners are willing to let him drive it.
Ek9 is cool. Unfortunately the only thing better about it is that the car is actually a size of a civic and not a fucking boat like the FL5.
The FL5 wins otherwise.
someone please tell me how the FL5 looks like a hatchback and not a sedan x suv crossover
Me personally. 30k is too much for that EK. UNLESS you really want that car. Its just too outdated imo. I see them on every carmeets in canda since we dont have that stupid 25year rule.
JDM Heaven 🏎️🔥🔥🔥🔥
Nothing beats double wishbone 90s vtec hondas for purity in fwd fun.
can we get a oem+ RSX-S comparison with a new type r please? I want to buy a FL5 and then stop myself because I truly enjoy driving my mint as can be 180k mile 06 RSX-S and feel like I'll miss the rev happy k20
why get rid of it, you are not gotta get much value towards the fl5 trading in the RSX, just save up a little more and keep both
What back road is this?
The EK has a 5 speed with shift rods. 6:20
I want the fk8 type r as my next car, but I'm having difficulty thinking about letting my celica gt(uk) go to get one - like the older type r he drove 🎉it is so much fun to drive (even after 13 years ownership) and revs to 8400rpm with lift!!!
Another point is the EK has a longer wheelbase to DC2 which most people don't realise
Honda also made a lot of effort in making the chassis stiffer than the Integra
I've never owned an ek9 but I did own a 99 honda civic si em1. And yes, it's a very viceral driving experience. I now own an fl5, and while it's not exactly the same it still has the same essence as my old si.
i want to ask JDM car manifacturers why why cant they bring back the 90s legends and modernize just the interior and remain the same fun to drive cars
pretty beat up example of ek9
Have you driven any K swapped EF/EG/EK/DC? Would be interesting to see what you think with more modern power and tire on those old lightweight chassis.
i just had a thought, you should watch larry chen's Philippine vlog series. their Filipino right hand to let hand conversion jobs of steering wheels and the like over there are seamlessly crazy. godzillas , evos, and ek9s look like no mods were done to make them left hand drive legally road worthy.
btw, that jalopy at 12:41 beat out both type Rs in terms of neck turning impact. 🤣
personally, the fd2 type r is still on top of my list of the best ever type R's.
Steering feel in the FL5 is garbage. I had a FK8 for 3 years and now in a FL5 it's definitely number.
I’d just get a jdm dc2. Lower miles and a bit cheaper from what I’ve seen.
Looks like 97 spec ek9
So it’s been almost two years and you’re still talking about the dampers on stock type r
How tf that car have all season tires???!!! Should be confiscated
Genuine facial expressions never lie. Your face lit up in the EK9!
Civic & Torque monster, never thought i would hear those in the same sentence
The EK9 comes with green suit race uniform?👀
$30K for an EK9??! Rather shell out the extra more for the fl5
rear suspension on an EK9 is not a double wishbone, its a slightly improved trailing arm setup
No actually the EK9 has an upper and a lower control arm exactly like the EJ6
@@nfspeedy2 not everything with an upper and lower control arm is a double wishbone suspension
@@boblast5582 exactly that is the definition of a double wishbone.
@@nfspeedy2 no it’s not… how the control arms are arranged and the arc they rotate through determines what type of suspension it is
You should try Honda Civic (FD2) Type R.
He did recently
the fl5 should’ve been championship white
do a Corolla XRS (1st gen)
30k for Type-R? Did they go up price in Japan as well or just they hiked up the Importation fees here to bring it here? I remember back then (mid 2000s) I drove the DC2 type-R and those JDM swapped EK9, EG6, and CRX HF with b18c5 swapped, I think the CRX with type-r swapped was the most halirious one fast as shit and rev to the moon the guy put hot cam in it shift at 10k rpm. But I preferred the S2000 because rear wheel drive and feel more serious and more complete package and faster still. Today, I don't know I haven't revisited them on the same day, not sure which way to go but 30k for EK type-R I am not sure if it's worth it just for nostalgia and rarity or just find a good clean s2k as back then everyone would go for S2k even if 2X in price.
i’ve checked recently on some japanese sites and most of the ek9s i found were going around $20-25k in japan and those had a bunch of mods. i imagine a completely stock one would be in the 30s.
@@lilhead945430k is a all inconclusive price to import/ship/register here. i paid a couple under 30k for my condition. if you take a 20k example, 2k to ship, 1k to import, another 1k to register that’s already 25k. and those 20k examples are likely beat to hell
The FL5 is just kinda odd looking and not as approachable as the old Civic. I'll take the older one all day over the new one.
you spend 30k on one lol
@@renaldoharris7951 different people different views, old type R isn't a one car solution like the new one
Nice comparisons 😊
You need to try the FD2
He drove one recently
@@30hours51 oh yea in japan! I forgot about that
Hilarious to blur the speedometer out as if that car is going fast
Don't underestimate the power of VTAK
Hahaha made chuckle
This seemed like a really weird comparison into i remembered that you didn't get the EK9.
I know what you mean about the agility. I didn't own a EK9 but have spent a lot of time around vtec civics and i prefered the ninble feeling of the floppy Del Sol over the slightly larger footprint of the DC2R.
The DC2 feels quite a bit larger despite being pretty much the same weight. Kind of wish id bought an EK9 over the DC2R when they were both cheap.
I suspect somebody is going to complain about the size of the FL5, but the size and shape makes perfect sense if you follow the evolution of the model through EP3, FD2/FN2, FK2, FK8 up to present (and that it now doubles in the role of the Accord Type R/Accord Euro-R which doesn't exist anymore). 🙂 The FN2/FK2 were more Golf-sized (so FK2 is my favourite turbo Type R) but the long rear overhang of the FK8/FL5 is needed to keep the large cargo space of the FK2 while gaining independent rear suspension that takes up much more space than the previous beam, while the sloping D-pillar shape (like a Skoda Octavia or Insight or Prius) since the FN2 onwards is far superior for aerodynamic drag than a square back shape (like a VW Golf).
Great film! I think putting the EK9 on some track day tyres, even in the same 195/55 R15 as stock, instead of all-seasons would considerably lessen the difference in cornering ability/cornering confidence between the cars? Though Tein Street coilovers (and also Koni Yellows with stock rates in my experience) tend towards being a bit soft, so something a bit firmer would give better transient response.
@@TassieLorenzo tires + new suspension is on my list. i haven’t done anything to the car and this is what the previous owner had. i have a feeling these teins are pretty worn so its definitely time for something new. otherwise i dont plan on making major modifications to the car
I can’t believe someone paid someone to JDM the EK hatch, super pathetic. What a goofball, 30k? Omg someone rocked your wallet hahaha!!!
Can't really compare the ek9 value because the value will go up and fl5 will go down
You finally reviewed an ek9! The next step would be to review the spoon ek9 vs the spoon fl5.
With that rear wing, the new type-r looks like a RICER CAR. 😂😂🤦
Que feo que es el nuevo type r porque sedan 😢
The whole point and purpose of a Civic Type R is that they are supposed to be small, light, sporty and have two doors. They are not supposed to be a family car the size of an Accord. Having said that, the EK9 is gutless due to having a small 1.6 engine. Supercharged K20a swapped EK9 would be the sweet spot.
if my b16b every blows up then i would definitely do a k swap but honestly i love the character of the b series and in spirit of wanting to keep things oem im not itching to do any kind of engine swap
you can thank the US government for making it near impossible to sell small cars unless they grow to a certain size
also the FD2R exists
That car wasn't 30k when brand new. It's cool, but not worth that kinda cash
ehhh you need to account for inflation. with that said: importing a car here to the states that was made in super small quantities will be expensive regardless. the money needed to ship/import/register the car is baked into the 30k price. tbf i paid right under 30k and i think i got a steal for the condition of the car. youll see things in the similar price range on BaT. also other countries are able to import cars a lot sooner than the US can so canada/UK/aus are all able to grab these cars sooner because of the stupid 25 year rule. once you get to 25 years, its super hard to find a clean one
You must not understand how time works
Who did she use to buy the car?
I actually bought it from a private seller that has imported multiple cars and has his own broker. he also technically owns a dealership. he doesn't help people import cars per se
@@bethanybin gotcha, any way I get get his contact? Just Incase he han help me out in the future?
i’ve been trying to reply to your comment to dm me but youtube is deleting them for some reason
garagebin
@@bethanybin thanks alot!
I'm sorry but I'm not paying 30k for a EK9 Civic Type-R, that car isn't worth that amount of money. How much would they want for a FD2 if it was importable into this country? 75k? No thank you.
these can be had for less than 30k. full disclosure i paid a couple grand under for everything said and done with registration and all of that. importing a car is expensive especially one that was made in very few quantities. the ones you’ll find in the low-20s or high 19s are likely to be stripped out and were probably driven pretty hard in japan and then you have to account for shipping, import fees all of that. at the end of the day each to their own. i totally where you’re coming from because yes it’s just a 90s civic at its core but we all have our grail cars 🙂
dealers want about 60k for a FL5 ek9 is my fav, easy to work on cheap parts and i dont need all the computers and screens , i have my phone for that
i want a new job so i can get my car that i want to buy i hate canada and america
6:17 ek9 is only 5 speed 🤔
and hydraulic linkage, not cable
8,600 RPM Redline
@@jasonnicholspdx8.400 rpm redline ;-) i owned one and the rpm cluster show always a little bit more than reality like every old Honda.
@@nfspeedy2 I own a 98 EK9 right now, and it revs to 8,600 RPM, stock ECU, and shows 9k on the tach.