Honda AP2 S2000 vs Mazda ND3 Miata vs Subaru BRZ tS - Head to Head Review!
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- Let's see if the new ND3 MX-5 Miata or BRZ tS can outshine the old-but-gold AP2 S2000 as the most enjoyable lightweight, FR, manual, 4 cylinder, affordable Japanese sports car.
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#nd3 #brzts #s2000
It’s crazy how the design of the S2000 holds up 20 years later.
So strange how Honda continues to ignore this segment of the market
@@churchofbrap876As craxy as it to say this, the S2000 was not a hot seller. Similar to the Lexus LFA.
@@DoubleDown310the depreciation curve it hit last decade changed everyone’s outlook on it. It started at 32k back in 2000 which is 59k now. How many people can justify dropping 60 racks on one of these nowadays? The Mx-5 would blow Honda out of the water in sales.
@@churchofbrap876 It originally was competing against the boxster and Z3, right? Wouldn't that equate to a segment higher than the current BRZ or Miata of today?
I mean the integra type r is also the pinnacle of fwd. 90s Hondas are something else
This channel deserves more attention . As a car enthusiast, you address all of my concerns on how a car drives/compares to others. Love your content
Its 2024 and we are still comparing new sports cars to a gold standard S2000.
That speaks volume, s2k will go down in history as one of the best.
To be fair you cannot go wrong with any of these. I'd take an ND3 MX-5 myself, but mostly since it has a bit of creature comfort tech in it without being crazy over the top. For a car that has been in production for 10 years it is standing up very well on its own. S2000 is still one of the best looking roadsters around though.
It has better feel but it was also expensive and probably not even close to BRZ in safety.
@@ruturaj47 comparing safety of convertible that came out in 1999 to new car is going to give the same answer
@@akka7556 yes, so factor that safety part in, factor in inflation adjusted price, these cars don't compare.
@@ruturaj47
Other than closed vs open car, most of the safety stuff shouldn't be much different. It has ABS. Traction control is a mixed thing in a sports car, but the 2006+ years have that, too, to mixed reviews. Lane assist? No, thanks. And regarding crash safety, the S2000 has an incredibly strong frame. For starters, the windshield frame is strong enough that it serves as rollover protection.
I picked the ND2 RF Club a year and a half ago. Did a bunch of mods (suspension, front sway, bracing, exhaust, Alcántara steering wheel, short shifter, several electronic hacks, etc.). It’s a great Autocross, weekender and I daily it occasionally and it’s fine.
No Toyota/Subaru b/c they are hard top and no S2000 b/c it’s very expensive for its age and what you get.
If I need an upgrade, it will be to the 718 Botxster GTS.
06-07 S2000s may have the softest suspension of all S2000 model years. For the 2008 model year, Honda corrected this and stiffened springs/dampers/sway bars per the below.
2008 S2000 Suspension & chassis:
- revised spring and damper tuning "that subtly influences steering feel and high speed vehicle behavior".
- Coil springs - Front: Stiffer by 7%, Rear: Stiffer by 9% (from 2007 spec)
- Dampers - Front: Damping Force Increased 10%, Rear: Damping Force Increased 5% (from 2007 spec)
- Satbilizer bars - Front from 26.5 x t4.5 (2007) to 27.2 x t5.3. Rear has no change
The 08/09 S2000 CR received an even more extreme suspension treatment:
• Firmer, track-oriented suspension settings for springs, dampers and stabilizer bars.
• Front coil springs 37% stiffer and rears 17% over 2008 standard model.
• Front damping force increased 50% and rears 32% over 2008 standard model.
• Front stabilizer bar (mm): was 26.5 x t4.5 in 2007 to 27.2 x t5.3 in 2008 and to 28.6 x t4.5 in S2000CR (+1.4 x -0.8).
• Rear stabilizer bar (mm): Rear: 25.4 x t4.5 in 2007, no change 2008 except for S2000CR to 26.5 x t4.5 (+1.1 x 0.0).
• Structural enhancements include rear body brace and steering gearbox brace
• Quicker steering ratio of 13.8:1 (compared to 14.9:1)
source: www.s2ki.com/forums/uk-ireland-s2000-community-25/s2000-model-year-differences-755380/
Honda couldn’t stop tinkering with S2000 didn’t they? I am in the market for one and it is very confusing. Thanks for the summary.
@@taelee347there’s the AP1 V1 which is 99-01 the AP1 V2 which is 02-03 the AP2 V1 which is 04-05 the AP2 V2 which is 06-07 and the AP2 V3 which is 08-09
My fave of this is the MX5. Newer, nicer interior, better safety and the craziest thing is its the lightest and best steering. Good steering is the top thing I value and outside of Lotus and this ND3 there is nothing except maybe the GT3/4 Porsches. The MX5 is also the best shifter on sale today.
The Miata also has a massive aftermarket of quality coilovers, great catbacks etc.
If it was my money though the GR86 PP would be my choice as its the best all around package
too bad the motor character is so boring, the s2000 one is awesome ( have driven all the mx5 ND and the s2k, also the gt86)
Miata is more fun more of the time than a GT3/4.
@@cben86 its for old people driving slowly sunday afternoon on B roads
@@Kamui.. The Miata or the GT3/4?
@@cben86 Miata
Off the showroom floor, the pick for the canyons is the MX-5 Club soft top. It drops the curb weight to 2340 lbs and gets you the Brembos, Recaros and BBS wheels. It's pretty easy and relatively inexpensive to set the MX-5 up for whatever you want it to do. There are 57,432 after market parts available. :)
Nice comparison video. Glad you compared the three with an almost stock AP2. We’ve all driven modified versions. Some are set up well, and some not so much, but the dead steering on the S2000 is hard for me to overlook. Of the three, I’d get the ND3 due to the excellent steering, nimbleness from a truly lightweight package, and a solid drivetrain that’s a aftermarket exhaust away from greatness. All three are fun to drive, but the Miata has the best all around package to me.
Miata is the best drivers car out of the three.
Best steering, best gearbox, best pedals. Best powerband.
S2000 best looking.
86 most space.
“Best manual ever made”…. 4 minutes later, can’t get it in 3rd gear. 😂😂 sorry, had to point that out.
Was definitely surprised to hear that
Driver error. It's not an easy manual, but the most satisfying when you get it right.
Its quite easy to money shift if you're not paying attention 😅
Don't ever go from 3rd to 5th like any other car either. I destroyed my 5th gear doing that in few months. Because the long gearing I'd redline 1-3 then didn't need 4th. Oh well a expensive lesson transmissions are $2k now
Bad synchros?@@BitcoinTo150K
When Fenton gives the people another S2000 video, we click.
If I didn't have an s2000 already and needed something newer, I would go with the ND3. Design flaw creating oil pressure issues with the BRZ/GR86 would keep me away from that platform (too bad since it is a great chassis). Mazda got their engineering right with their ND engine, as it was designed from factory to withstand high Gs. I would consider the new gen GR86 if there is a true Toyota drivetrain.
Keep 'em coming! This is *the best* channel for affordable sports car comparisons, thank you! Props for staying objective.
Hi Fenton, great video! Love the channel and your reviews.
I recently sold my Evo X, and am looking for a FR driver's car in the price range of around $25k. Current considerations are the S2000, E46 M3, and 987.1 Cayman S. Of these three which would you choose? Is there anything else you'd pick for $25k?
Tough question but one that I've given a lot of thought to over the years. I'd go S2K for track/weekend. It's light, raw, punches above its weight class in terms of lap time, and relatively light on consumables. E46 for track/daily. Easiest to control at the limit, but requires more funds set aside for maintenance. 987.1 Cayman S for canyon carving. Not suitable for track given its engine issues, and unrefined for daily driving (as are the other 3, but E46 is slightly better). Can't think of any better RWD options for $25K, unless you're open to a used GR86/BRZ or ND2.
Hope this helps and thanks for the support!
@@Zygrene I've been looking at the M3 for a long while (grew up on NFS: MW 😅) but my buddy's S2000 has made me look in that direction! Thanks for the response!
Beware buying an inexpensive German car. It could be the most expensive car you have ever owned.
S2000 is the gold standard and will always be.
Love how the only cars we can compare to the MX5 is an old one and a coupe. (Mx5, a class of its own!)
I don't love that. It means there aren't many not-expensive sports cars being made any more and that's not a good thing. Curse you, SUVs and pickups!!
I think the 3 best sounding NA 4 cyl ever made are the e30 m3, 190e Evo II and the S2000. All focused on induction noise.
if youre gonna talk about great induction noises gotta at least bring up the eargasm guru that is yamaha like those found in 4age and 2zz
@@lawrencelin272 you’re right, can’t argue with those Yamaha/Toyota engines.
Hey, that’s my old S2000! I traded it in a few months ago for an ND2 RF Club with Ohlins. Your review so perfectly captured the differences between the cars. Keep up the good work!
All the comments praising the S2000. It's definitely an icon.
Do you miss the S2000? And is the miata as fun / special feeling as the S was?
I owned an 05 S2k from 2011 - 2018. In 18 a flood took it from me. In 2022 i bought an ND2 RF. Both cars are fun. MX5 is very nimble at slow speeds. It’s light and takes corners. S2k was just mighty - listening to the revs while accelerating. Also old school vtec where you hear and feel when it kicks in. The ND2 obviously has better tech and is the better daily. But the S is just a legend. I drove more than 30 cars in my life till now. E92 M3, KTM X-Bow, Pantera, … S2000 is still my favorite.
One of the things I love about your channel is the specificity of the comparisons. Would love to see you throw some slightly older choices into the mix sometimes (e.g., early 987.1 S vs. ND2; or S52 M-Roadster vs. NC2). Thanks for all of your hard work!
The S2000’s engine and transmission are just too good to pass up. Plus, you get to watch all of those wild Best Motoring touge videos and reenact them!
You basically turn into a racecar driver, driving the S2K.
@@big-R Yup! I like the other two, but the S2000 is a jolt of energy in comparison, especially an AP1.
Hard disagree, IMO. You have to rev out the s2k to feel anything. ND has low end torque and feels much better on the road. S2k definitely has the better gearbox though.
@@Kraize92 Revving it out is part of the fun. I don’t want to go on a lazy drive in a sports car.
@@williambellisIII you say this but would never daily a s2000 meanwhile would love to daily the ND. S2k feels like a 80’s civic until 6500 rpm lot of people never owned them don’t understand this. What do you drive now? Go test drive a S2k/ND3 same day tell me I’m wrong
I am very surprised the BRZ over the other 2. I would love to trade my car for the BRZ, just can't get over the boxster engine. Love the comparison.
yeah, it's a good car but I don't like the engine.
The BRZ's fake noise sounds like someone is blowing a horn.
The answer depends on what your use case is but it's hard to go wrong with any of these 3.
Autocross - ND3
Track/Weekend - AP2 S2000
Track/Daily - BRZ/GR86
I’ll pick the s2000 any day
All the ND3 needs sticky tires lowering springs, Intake,Exhaust. You solid
Same for all cars.
In fact that's what I did to my Miata
Nice comparisons Fenton!😊
Miata is best bang for your buck as of rn
S2k's on the market are clapped and still going for 30k+ not including what you'd have to put into one to get it remotely close to 100%
Brz/frs are fair priced but the reliability is worse then subpar for a new vehicle that should last 100k miles before a issue pops up especially oil starvation/slosh issues, spending MSRP on one I want to know it'll last and the brz is just to much of a hit an miss ordeal.
Miata best choice out of the three best price for what you get, chassis aren't beat to hell yet and still have good reliability and a fair amount of performance out the box.
That oil starvation issue only happens while driving hard on track. The car still has a decent reliability record
@@Wolfen_Argent meanwhile, the ND MX-5 Miata is specifically designed to maintain oil pressure at up to 1.4G sustained, aka driving hard on a track. It's not even a contest
@@ITNoetic that's the difference between a 'parts bin' car and a 'from the ground up' sports car..
Plenty of nice S2000’s to go around and now is a good time to buy.
@@z32luvr Definitely not in my state most here are beat down and still going for a hefty price..the amount of unfinished projects and chassis without motor and transmissions are out here would blow your mind
I always enjoy your content but none of these cars would get me to sell my 987.1 Cayman, although a nicely modified S2000 would get me looking!
Hey man, great review. You very organised and comprehensive in your explanation of the various aspects of all three cars! A real pleasure. I think an R3 RX8 would've also been a great car to include, though it's market value is lower, it's characteristics are similar and it's a great driver's car!
For the clutch on BRZ, i adjusted the pedal height and it's much better now. As much as I don't want to be in a crash, if I did, I would much rather be in BRZ than other two.
On my 3rd s2000, Best car I’ve ever owned. And I’ve owned big hp cars. AWD FWD and RWD from Evos to FL5 CTR to M3s
Great comparison!
S2000 is a legendary car. Honda did so many things right and it shows all these years later.
Could basically watch comparison videos of these cars all day, haha. I'm pretty local, so one day I'll have to offer up my ND2 on MCS 2Ws, but want to wrench on it a little more--hard to prioritize modifying the car financially these days.
Nice review! That smile that crept up when you were starting to push the BRZ says it all. One of the first reviews that explains why the BRZ is so much fun on back roads if you've got good chassis control skills. The chassis inspires so much confidence (inherently stable & communicates through chassis and steering) and the FA24's extra torque combined with the way the rear wants to rotate on power are exactly why the BRZ is more fun to me vs. the S2000 on the same roads. It's too bad you didn't get to continue modding your's. Intake + exhaust give the FA24 the sound it deserves. Few simple mods help with clutch and shift feel. Front camber to dial out the entry understeer. I recently had the opportunity to buy a friend's well-maintained AP2 (car I've driven numerous times and even instructed in), but for me my lightly-modded BRZ is more fun on public roads.
S2000 for me. I love the design of an AP2 too much. Bone stock no wing no lip, I love the design of that car so much and the rest are just absolute BONUS. F22c is an amazing engine no questions there. 6spd trans is awesome with tight gear ratio. I love the handling characteristics of stock ap2. I am sure the other two cars will be far faster around the track stock ish set up, but I just LOVE how AP2 looks and how it drives to just stick with an AP2 over other two cars. Miata seems too feminine design for me (although AP2 is pretty feminine as well compared to 1st gen BRZ and such).
I wonder how the comparison would be if all 3 were on comparable aftermarket suspension. My unmodified AP1 is also most definitelly very soft.
A few cut scenes of driveby's would be cool. I prefer the Miata. It always feel special and telepathic.
I drove Subarus for 12 years, it's hard to speak badly about them.
Love your stuff! Keep it up!
I chose the MX - 5 because, compared to the BRZ, it has the option of driving with an open roof, even though it loses a little stiffness.
Isn't it possible to break into the menus and kill the damn racket from the speakers in the BRZ? It's not a naturally melodic engine - flat-4s don't do that - but the piped in sound is just godawful. The first gen had a physical sound tube that you could disconnect and throw in the trash, but is sound like this one is baked into the electronics.
Kind of strange to try to quantify the fun factor between these three cars without addressing the most glaring difference, which is that the BRZ is merely a coupe, not a convertible. Get the MX-5 in a soft top and the entire experience changes, and all for the better...so much better, in fact, that comparisons become moot. The top-down experience gives the Miata an immersive, profoundly satisfying "special" factor that's missing from the BRZ, or any fixed-roof car. Take a soft-top Miata through Death Valley at night, or on Hwy 1 in Big Sur, or up in the redwoods, or around Lake Tahoe, or even in downtown San Francisco with all the skyscrapers, and you immediately understand the difference. There's a unique sense of occasion. It's incomparable.
In terms of sheer fun factor, it doesn't merely tip the scales, it changes the entire equation.
I’m hoping the changes in the 2025 BRZ will improve the steering like Mazda did for the ND3. The Sports button is a little silly, but perhaps it will bring the engine alive a little and remove some of the rev hang. Those changes with the Ts changes should make it a bit better, but the engine/transmission is never going to be as good as the other two.
Is there a supercharger or turbo kit for the ND3 mx-5?
You've owned multiple S2000's and driven multiple ND Miata's... which one has a stiffer chassis?
Would like to see how a 986 or 987 Boxster or Boxster S compares.
986: ugly, but cost effective. Can upgrade the IMS bearing.
987: much better looking. Has IMS you could upgrade, but it might cost more than the car, lol.
987.2: Base engine has no IMS and no cylinder wall coating (this can breakdown over time and cause bore scoring). More expensive than 987.1 S models lol
981: Base engine has no IMS and no cylinder wall coating. BEST LOOKING CAYMAN/BOXSTER (inside and out). 1st gen EPS which isn't that great. still pricey
718 4 banger: Good value for money, imo. dry sump out the factory. lower CG and weight due to less cylinders. Doesn't sound like a P-Car..
Handling wise, these will be very competitive, even though they're older.. mid-engine balance, if you havent experienced it, is quite amazing.
Did affordable not used to mean under $20k? With that said the S2000 >
Just buy the MX-5, get a warranty & love life. There's really no question.
S2000 is the KING!
I agree and believe that the BRZ is tops and also user friendly. But if you are capable of pushing a vehicle all the way, it is rewarding! Price is amazing and it is quite useful space wise. Also, it is possible to disconnect the fake video game racer boy noises loL!
For me to upgrade my ND2 I hope Mazda work on the engine character for its final swan song.
The gr86 is what I would buy if it had a regular inline 4 but because of it’s garbage power plant I’d buy the nd rf
Drove the S2000 when they were new and did not like the lack of low end
You have to drive it like you stole it. The whole car comes alive when you flog it.
Ok unrelated question: Who makes that blank T? The cut and weight look good
@@brianbohnet1907 found it at a Uniqlo in Tokyo. Haven't seen them in US locations
Problem is the brz has reliability issues though
Any of those real?
@@ruturaj47oil starvation and rtv are common issues
@@victoryang9115 not really. RTV has shown to have 0 effects on oil pressure, it's not linked to any failure. Oil pressure drops on high g right hand turns at high RPM is an issue, proper fix is an bigger oil pan but most are mitigating issue by combination of thicker oil, overfill, short shifting etc
@@ruturaj47yeah, I think it’s understandable that buyers who track their cars don’t have to modify their cars to be track worthy. The nd2 and s2000 are just better in terms of reliability.
@@victoryang9115 s2000 is 20 year old car that's not available new. Good luck if you crash it. Miata needs after market roll over bars for safety, much more people have had issues with ND transmission than GR86/BRZ owners had with engine (factoring in the sales numbers, i.e. owners who had issues / total cars sold). Also none of the 3 can go to track stock, they all need brake fluids and pads at least. Miata needs suspension as well. And not sure in what world overfilling oil, using thicker oil and short shifting is considered mods, not on planet earth as per as I know.
I saw some videos over the years on Laguna Seca and others in the same class don't come close as lap times with S2000. N/A cars. No matter the feeling, impressions or theory,S2000 is just a better car even after 20 years
NO MENTION that 2 of 3 are CONVERTIBLES !!! Doesn’t that matter to you ?
18:42 it is the best chassis, leys the suspension work
I hate how inflated the S2000 market has gotten. The only way you're going to get a good deal is if you travel out of state from what I've seen or if you get lucky on an auction. Used ND2's are probably the sweet spot in terms of price right now, but my heart is still set on sub $27k AP1's because my first car was (still is) an 8th Gen Civic and I just like the Honda fanboy placebo effect tbh lol. Still have the door open for an ND2 just in case, but who knows man :/
I disagree. There are plenty of good examples for sale throughout the country. Prices are actually down right now and probably the best time to buy one if you’re in the market.
while you can compare these 3 on price and the that they are in a similar class, the fact is the s2000 is a used car with no warranty bordering on almost 20 years old. aside from the focus on driving and experience the ND and BRZ here are a much smarter buy as far as everything else is concerned. however the s2k has one thing the others do not; a 9k redline. and to many, that alone would make it worth it
An S2000 of good quality in terms of maintenance is not available at a decent price anymore. A BRZ is not a convertible. Thus another easy win for the Miata, as usual
It is still cheaper than a MX-5 but not brand new. The S2K is a more exciting car in every aspect.
@@z32luvr dude, I just checked bring a trailer. They just sold an S2000 for $37k. An mx-5 brand new is $29k. Your math doesn't add up
@@z32luvrS2000s in my area are pushing $40,000 for those with under 100,000 miles
@@ITNoeticthey sell a few every week. You’re looking at one example. You can’t get a new MX-5 for 29k.
@@z32luvr msrp dealerships are a thing. The closer to affordable an S2000 gets, the closer you get to not wanting to inherit all its past due maintenance and rust. Meanwhile, you can get a used ND1 or ND2 for even cheaper than msrp. Comparing used prices to new was a meme. Point is, like for like, the price is not comparable
Are s2k's still highly targeted by car thieves? I know that was my #1 reason for not buying one back in the day (no garage back then).. Didn't want to come back from a movie and find a hole in the soft top and the seats missing lol.. I never worry about my ND in that regard lol
Every S2000 deserves a garage.
@@z32luvr sometimes you're living situatiopn does not allow for that..
Yes prices for parts have gone way up not helping
Unpopular opinion, the S2000 engine aounds like a box of bees on steriods from inside the car.
Both the miata and BRZ(with sound speaker disabled) sound like better well sorted engines. Thats because they are. They are quieter and vibrate less due to modern technology and more precise instrumentation allowing for a better balanced engine build. Thats why these engines are quieter. It diesnt mean that they have "no character", its that their character is more like a well trained and composed samurai staying quiet untill he needs to take his sword out vs a street thug opening his mouth and trash talking everyone and everwhere he goes bragging about being tough.
As for soft suspention on any of these cars, suspention is a matter of use case. For street driven cars and canyon runners, soft is not a bad thing when many roads are pretty terrible. Its mostly just about having a balanced characteristic rather than sporatic. You actually get MORE grip if you have a slightly softer suspention than a stiff one when going over bumps around a corner in canyons too. People mod their cars like their taking them to the track when their cars usually dont ever see any track pavement and spends all its time fighting the eneven road conditions. Build your cars for the roads your actually going on, not the ones you wont.
You have no clue what you’re talking about.
This reviewer is pure chaos😂😂
How is the s2000 the best car in less than 4 minutes into the review?
selling my 07 S2K with 78000 with brand new top. car is great condition. $30K
What you replacing it with?
I really hate biased reviews.
Miata for the win
Is an s2000 with 53k miles on it affordable anymore?
Ive seen several AP2's (the good ones too, 04-05.. still has a throttle cable) with those miles or lower for high 20s/low 30s up here in the PNW
Gonna cost you $30-40k depending on year/color so no lol
*Selling out of Denver
Only one of these is actually a Miata…the other two?? They ain’t no Miata
Still waiting on the deleted vtec reaction video
Throwing in a 987.2 and/or 981 boxster/cayman base or s into the discussion
S2000 is epic, but it's hard to ignore the age as an ownership proposition. All those components will be showing wear at this point.
I think an ND3 on ITBs is where its at, thatll give it character!
It's still going to sound the same, just louder lol
S2000’s are extremely reliable and easy to work on.
@@TforTouge have you heard them on itbs? They sound great
@@z32luvr a newer mx5 will require less maintenance
@@Chris-nj1mrI’d say it’s about the same. Tires may be slightly cheaper since they are more narrow.
Could not get the top to go down on the BRZ
For the money I'll take an FD RX-7
Let you hear the VTEC...does he not know that all 3 cars have variable valve timing? VTEC was a marketing gimic just like HEMI was back in the day.
Also commenting on the engine noise with and aftermarket intake and exhaust is somewhat disingenuous.
Great review. I would have the Mazda but im too tall and wide, steering is my thing. So it’s the 86 for me.
It's been way too long since I've driven an S2k, but the NA Miata is my benchmark for shifting feel (no problems finding 3rd gear either😊). That said, if the S2K is anything like old miatas, it's probably common to find them with worn out bushings.
Miata doesn’t come close in shifter feel.
Haven't you done this video like 4 times now? Lol
I did base BRZ vs ND2 vs S2K CR a couple years ago. Can't stop won't stop
MAZDA is the best from this bunch
The problem with the brz and miata ( not sure about S2000) is they arent easily modded for power you can use at a race track or even on the street on a hot summer day.
If you going make a comparison do it right. A fully sport specs out BRZ compared to a GT MX-5 isn't the same when comparing to a fully spec out Club w/BBS package. A total miss opportunity lol
Just try to be objective, and provide correct information, please...
I wish the Miata had a little bit more power
K swap is the answer.
More fun to just ring the crap out of it and not be going 100 mph
Agreed. Just like the brz benefited from a power pumb. I think 220 hp would be amazing.
@@churchofbrap876 Especially with the top down, it just feels like you're going faster. Add an exhaust and it's the most fun affordable car at legal speeds.
I'd actually buy the 1.5L, 131hp engine option if it were available in the US. I've read it's the engineers' preferred one. Give me a fun car handling-wise where I *get the opportunity* to ring its neck engine-wise.
My father once told me.. Americans love business.. Australians love land so don’t buy a ND2 BUY your first house 🏠 honestly I didn’t listen!! THAT $150,000 house cost me $250,000 5years later!! Now age.42 I own a portfolio of 11 houses all positive geared generating about $178,000 passive income. I still own my original ND2 with 389,000km with original engine. My ND2 cost me 100,000 lost house equity BUT I DONT CARE!! Money is Money at my age!! I don’t believe Ferrari Italia will make me any more happy than my original ND with my grey hair 👨🦳(proud ND owner) !!!!!!!!!