Just wanted to say that it’s awesome to see your channel grow lately and that Civ 3 has probably been my aesthetically, and probably subjectively, favorite game I’ve ever played. You’ve definitely gotten me as addicted to this game as I was in 2004 over the past year. Keep it up
Two things: In Vanilla, the Medieval Infantry didn't used to exist, and the Swordsman couldn't be upgraded at all. This led Civ3 and Civ4 legend Sullla to declare the Immortal, "the special unit so strong they gave it to everyone in the expansion." In turn, the Medieval Infantry made the Longbow useless in PtW, meaning the Berserk was free real estate (though by your rules, you didn't take that into consideration. Also, even you understated the use of the +1 hp. On regular units, that boost can be equivalent to as much as a 50% boost because one more dice roll is often worth more than a more weighted die. Also why upgrading Elite Mounted Warriors isn't even worth it.
I like the Javelin thrower myself. I build a couple early game and just send them out hunting for barbarians while expanding. I've never had 1 die to barbarians, and using only 2-3 per game, I usually end up with 20 or more free (albeit slower) workers. The Mayans are already quiet fast starters, so having these guys sending a steady stream of slave workers back to your expansion zone really gets you pumping early. The workers are maintenance free also, so if you disband a lot of your workers after railroads, you can keep these free units for pollution or building around captured cities etc.
@@MarcDufresneosorusrex i dont understand your question, but if you also have the same question as me, joining barbs into cities will still count as foreign pop, the problem is that barb populations will experience "stop the aggression against our country" unhappiness 100% of the time
For the first time I decided to try out the English strategy on a higher level of gameplay. I’ve played as the English before but a long time ago and never much cared to try them out again… boy was I in for a surprise. My early game was weaker, and I got pretty far behind. I was able to secure the great lighthouse which made the ai unable to cross the seas and I got to colonize almost every island exclusively to myself. Of course, the AI hates anyone with a larger land area so they all wanted my islands and declared war on me before they could even get into range with their 3 movement ships. I was able to get to my man-o-wars and build as many as possible in a short time, filling the seas with my ships. The enslave is great, more ships without cost/turn that will be more powerful than anything for an entire age of technology. Yeah it was a rough start, but I turned that game around so fast I really want to try and make it more difficult. Amazing underrated unit imo.
18:56 I was rewatching this video for fun and I decided to finally try a Jaguar Warrior rush and actually won my first ever Emperor game. Now I'm winning games on Demigod! I wish I could catch more of your streams live, but I am loving all your older videos.
Congrats! Aztecs have fantastic traits too, really helps close out games. I don't stream anymore Remi, but follow me on twitter or join the discord and I'll let you know if I do :)
My man I grew up playing this game and still do to this day. I always thought I was a good player but your videos have me looking at civ in a completely different way Haha! Keep up the good work
Once i was so behind in tech that i said Fuck it im going to war ... and decided to stack 120 Sipahi and i conquered everyone in my continent in a few turns even with AI rifleman as defensive unit. I was overwhelmed by the power. Many died that day though! lol
Keshik has always bothered me. Mongols were notoriously known as lords of the plains, and their expansion into Europe pretty much stopped at significant natural borders. So you know what wouldn't make any damn sense? Giving their UU extra mobility over mountains! Seriously, they should have just made Keshik 4/2/3 and then come up with something else for Arabs. Also some of the other shitty UUs, I don't really understand what were the devs thinking. How can conquistador be even remotely useful in a single player (then again, explorer is completely useless to begin with). Why not just move him to Chivalry, replacing knight, and come up with some improved stats, like 5/3/2, or something. Or come up with something completely different and historically significant - for example Tercio (instead of pikeman, with 1/4/1, and come up with something else for the Dutch) or Inquisitor (instead of knight, with same stats, but enslave ability to create another Inquisitor)
Oh sorry! You're right. I put the unit stats on screen while I was talking about them but I didn't remember to put civ they belong to. I have another video ranking the civilizations. It lists the civ traits, the name of the civ, along with the UU stats. You might find that one more digestible. ua-cam.com/video/1AE643ohqVE/v-deo.html
@@suedeciviii7142 cheers mate I'm giving it a watch now. I think a slide at the start with a summary of what the traits actually do would be useful, but I took a quick trip to the civ wiki to get up to speed and now I'm enjoying it. I remember messing around in civ 3 when I was a kid but didn't get serious about it until civ 5. It's fun to look back and come to understand the older game with a more critical eye!
My first conquest was with zulus, i spamed those impis like mad. And other was rush for feudalism , grab iron and then kill everyone with samurais till i get army. Damn that was over 18 years ago.
It just dawned on me - if a unit has 3 movement points, it can move 2 tiles over hills, no? So literally the only time when Keshik is better than Ansar is if your first move is over unroaded mountain. Which happens how many times? Maybe 5 % of all your moves?
Hoplites are so great. "3 defense is a luxury in the ancient era" - yes, and it comes cheap at 20 shields. With barracks you can make a strong defense army relatively cheap, and it deters the AI from attacking (which is strategy as well). This makes them very useful and used in fact; AI opponents with stronger armies did not attack, or if they did, stacking 5 Hoplites per mountain/hill tile along with some archers or longbowmen can pretty much stop armies.
I think after this video I gave Greece a try and realized that I'd underrated them. But a lot of that is due to the amazing synergy between their UU and their traits. If you gave the Hoplite to say, the Zulu, it would be an underwhelming unit. Still, I do think it's better than the Swiss Mercenary now. I think I underestimated how long it's useful for. Sure, it's not very useful for most of the ancient era as I rightly pointed out, but these guys are so cost efficient that I think building them is justifiable up until infantry are available. And as long as you haven't had your golden age, you can still build the hoplite.
I play more at the Monarch level, but I like pillaging and razing. Pillaging is crucial for resource denial (example: cutting off an enemy's saltpeter to deny them cavalry), as well as sabotaging important roads. Razing is great because you can build your own city on the tile and avoid cultural conversions. I am also a huge fan of building cities in culture "gaps" and then rushing culture buildings to basically mass-migrate into an enemy's turf.
The Keshik and the Hwacha were on the back of the CD case I bought for Civ III, even though it was vanilla. I was surprised to see the javelin thrower at the bottom, considering that I love that unit. Then again, I only play at monarch level.
The Mayans are a top tier civ, and the extra growth and shields you get from the Mayan traits (industrious and agricultural) are more than enough to pay for the extra shields that the Javelin Thrower costs.
On the hoplite, the AI can sometimes be baited into attacking you when you block their settler efforts. Perhaps they need to view you as weaker than they are overall, but I've blocked them at chokepoints in the past, like a one or two land gap, until I can get around to settling that area. They will grow until frustrated to attack. The AI will also attack you if you tell it to get out of your territory. Imagine a key city with a temple (or your capitol) blocking his settling route. Two hoplites can withstand unlimited warriors and four can stop archers, swords and horsemen attacks. It'll be just like Thermopylae where the waves of attacks will crash against a wall of bronze, except you'll win forever until a large number of cannons or knights. And by then you'll have accomplished your goal and be miles ahead of them.
Warriors can hold choke points, unless the enemy declares war. In which case, yeah, hoplites are insane, although the AI can use boats. As for your second example: if you let the AI just run around in your land, they'll pillage and block your worker moves. They are good at guarding stacks though, and occasionally the ai gets baited into attacking them.
funny how you ranked the Javelin Thrower the worst UU, this is my absolute favorite and I really appreciate the constant worker flow from ancient wars or raging barbarians. also, you don't have to build spearmen to protect your cities
Hello,Suede-thank you very much for all your videos;rules;explanations and advices about Civilization 3 - I adore this fantastic game! My favorite is Mounted Warrior,Iroquois-because it’s my favorite nation,with these Indians I’m lucky in all parts:resources;cities;developments;wonders;money and war-especially war,whereas my favorite part of this game is - military! Actually,my favorite nations are Indian tripes,but the Iroquois are - tremendous! I adore conquer all enemies,using Mounted Warriors (especially,due to Golden Age) and not only them - I adore Statue of Zeus and Knights Templar,whereas they produce an Ancient Cavalries and a Crusaders (they’re one of my favorite units in all game with any nations,especially-Ancient Cavalry)! Therefore-thank you very much again for all your help,I wish you all the best;best of luck;more subscribers;favorites and cool comments and commentaries - GOD BLESS YOU !!!
With Conquistador, you forgot to mention the strategy of putting them in an army, and then pillaging 9 tiles per turn, sending your opponent back into stone age :) Especially deadly since AI doesn't attack full health armies. Of cource only useful when you're not planning to integrate enemy cities into your empire.
Personally, I'd rate the Enkidu Warrior as one of the best units in the game because of expansion speed. When expanding, you can spend 40 shields for a settler and a warrior, 50 for a settler and two warriors, or 50 for a settler and a spearman. Enkidu lets you pay 40 for one spearman or 50 for two, and makes expanding at breakneck speed much less dangerous. Given that more expansion=more cities=more resources=more production and commerce=more units and research=winning wars=more expansion=etc., this can set off an early game snowball with devastating effects. When I kick up to a new difficulty I always play Sumerian because of this.
I've definitely learned to appreciate the Hoplite, Enkidu, and Numidian Mercenary a bit more since making this list. But I don't really with what you said. So in my most recent video on difficulties, I analyzed how the AI operates on different levels. You'll notice that on regent, by the time all the land is taken up, the AIs don't have a single offensive unit, aside from warriors. The AI simply isn't programmed to focus on offensive units until the expansion phase is over. So all you need to defend your cities during the expansion phase is warriors. They provide military police, and deal with barbarians fine. Of course, you'll have to replace them with better defenders later on, at least in border cities. But that won't effect your ability to claim territory. TLDR: if building defensive units slows down your expansion significantly, you're building too many defensive units.
@@suedeciviii7142 I do use warriors when not playing as the Sumerians, but I always feel exposed, and sometimes I lose a city to a surprise attack. They give peace of mind as much as solid defense.
@@suedeciviii7142 And I'd put the Cossack lower on the list, since their attack isn't strong enough to carry them through attacking more than once per turn. They tend to lose too much health. Tanks can reliably double tap, the Cossack can't.
@@Quantumironturtle Yeah, my thoughts exactly. But someone else explained why Carthage is a strong pick for certain maps and conditions, and the numidian mercenary is a big part of that. They're versatile and can do things no other unit in the era can. Sure they're pricey, but the same can be said of spearmen relative to warriors.
One of the nice things about blitz for cossacks is that it's easier to get elites.. If you kill 2 units with one unit in the same turn you allways get an upgrade. I think that's why people like em so much?
You're ok with disbanding by muskets or skipping muskets but not pikes? I mean, yeah muskets are shit. But pikes aren't too much better. It's better to use knights as your defenders. Or legions for that matter. So their longevity is a nice bonus, but it's not a guarantee by any means. You shouldn't usually be building a bunch of pikes.
@@suedeciviii7142 Noted. I have unit support probs often and it makes me stay in despotism longer than I should. I always have at least a pike per city
@@suedeciviii7142 also the reason I always thought pikes were important is because I always get pushed around at start of medieval, but I feel like if Ive not been attacked by muskets then I might as well wait for rifles.
@@suedeciviii7142 I never do medeival push usually though I only defend cities with military in medieval. U mean knight will defend a city better than a pike? Or is the idea the knight can retake? Im scared to lose cities and fall behind in science before I can get to a comfy stage for attacking, which for me is atleast having cavalry with artillery. I never do medieval attacks I just realised, its either ancient or mid-industrial
@@hotdogfingerz9674 I was only being sarcastic, but my serious answer would be that Ivory is a luxury resource, not a strategic one. Luxury resources seem to be distributed differently so that 1 civ is most likely to end up with all of them, meaning you would be far less likely to even be able to build your UU as the Indians, and that wouldn't be very good.
Keshiks were pretty good. Cheaper is better. But they should have given Keshiks the original retreat ability that all fast units had that they got rid of in Play the World.
Hello, your videos are very helpful as always. The wiki says Keshiks have ZOC (zone of control) how useful is that? It is not mentioned in your video but, would it make the Keshiks slightly better? The other unique knights don't have ZOC.
My favorite unit is in the first place - Mounted Warrior,a unique unit for the Iroquois,it’s my favorite nation - I’m always lucky with the Iroquois everywhere,especially at war - it’s my favorite part in Civilization 3 !!!
In the first release of civ 3 jaguar warriors cost as much as warriors and replaced them. They were nerfed by making them cost slightly more. But i was such a kid when i played that version that i didn't know how to use them properly
Would be really interested to see you take advantage of the worst unit in the game - the javelin thrower. Maybe you could showcase the slave worker farming in your Sunday stream? Do slaves get the speed bonus from Being industrial? Maybe the challenge should be can’t build workers - wondering how much more income you would end up with, not paying for other workers except from your starting one! You should of course also trade for workers when possible and try to capture enemy ones :-)
I wanted to do a 60% water game after how badly I failed at them last stream. Maybe I could use the Mayans for that! The challenge you gave is also a good one. Might be appropriate for emperor.
Suede CivIII only got a chance to see the first part of the stream last Sunday, but it didn’t seem like you went for the slave farming showcase / no workers built challenge, but still hoping to see it another Sunday then 👍
A lot of it is situational to your tech lead, I usually rush military tradition as Russia. (Potentially using Great Library to keep up with the tech lead.) I like to out tech the other civs then switch all my production to cossacks and dominate my home continent.
My favorite unit in Civ3 is the War Elephant. It isn't accurate either that only India can build them; the Persians, Carthaginians, Romans and Ptolemy Egyptian dynasty also used them. I usually change this with Civ3 Edit.
@@99oildrops If you don't mind continuing this funny chat between Civ3 fans, I have a stuffed mammoth named Ellie and I'm actually considering making her a war elephant costume out of felt. Don't know if that would be too weird.
I am under impression that you've missed a part of the puzzle here. That is what can you take from AI and map, Blitz and Armies. Frirst: what can you take from the AI? With early chariot type units, you can take 3 settlements from AI. AI can build population, cities and improvements faster than you and that is a big factor. If you have to build 10 settlers and drag them for turn after turn and later build every single improvement it can be a lot of work. It also costs population and costs you by not building the other units or improvements. For that reason it is important how many towns you can take from your enemies when that units comes can be built. That would mean that most early units don't have a great utility. Second: Early map scouting. I've lagged so much at the start because I can't research as fast as the other civs. I can compensate that by having a scout. Better yet, having an early fast unit like impi that can search the whole map. Third: Leaders leaders and leveling of units. You can level your unit that has blitz so much faster than the other ones. That gives you better chance of getting a leader. That would place units that can have at 2x chance of getting a leader. For me that places them much higher on the list. Not to go into situations where you can attack 2 times with one blitz unit. That means that at least 1/2 of your cossacs can attack 2 times because they have enough health. Combine that with artillery and couple of defensive units and you can have a real cost effective doom-stack. Forth:Armies. Is a unit good enough to place in a army? Is that army useful for enough time for you to use a leader on it? Last, can you build an army at the time when you have that unit? That would place good mid game like French musketeers higher on the list. Such defensive army can last for a decent duration during a game. Not to go into how effective are they when you have 10 1hp cavalry units that need defending.
Samurai are my personal favorite and I think they are a top 5 unit. They demolish any middle age units, including the war elephant. You get 3 or 4 samurai in an Army? Look out! They only require iron to build, have an extra defensive point to make it 4/4. I’ve used them successfully even into the Industrial Age. And they can be upgraded to cavalry.
Defense stat of samurai = 4 Attack stat of samurai = 4 Defense stat of War Elephant = 3.75 (effectively) Attack stat of War Elephant = 5 (effectively) Plus elephants don't require iron. It's really no contest, the war elephant is much better.
I think Keshik would be well balanced balanced if it ignored movement cost of ANY terrain (including forrests, jungles and marshes). With only hills and mountains, they are just too situationally dependent.
@8:47 reeely think you're underselling the deeper game with the pillaging strategies, especially if you find yourself on defense. You can cause all sorts of havoc with them that have cascading effects with a high mobility pillager. If you're dealing with a belligerent border AI, especially with a stronger/bigger civ than you, you can majorly increase the cost of warfare against you without absolutely stripping the land like you say. First, you wreck the roads on the AI side of the boarder asap to cause them to spend an extra turn to reach you, or to pull out damaged units or even better, delay their response to another AI attacking them. Then you can send a high mobility unit in to disrupt resource and luxury tiles. That can cause instability by not only increasing the cost of happy faces, but also wrecking trade agreements that keep hostility low between AIs otherwise, or create an available trade option for you to enter into.
If Civ was a 1v1 game you'd be completely right, but it's not. As a result generally pillage strats are not very good. They weaken both the pillager and the pillaged player, without actually providing anything to the pillaging player, aside from weakening the AI. Contrast that with conquest, where you gain cities and land. Weakening the enemy can be good, but you bear the cost of pillaging and all the other AI civs are free riding off you. In multiplayer, where games are played with 4v4 teams, units like the impi are really good.
@@suedeciviii7142 I still think you're not giving the devil's due, (at least one point being that your reasoning a supposition that successful conquest is always an option available to players at all times, or that accelerating your foes consumption of resources doesnt open up a conquest option's door more widely), but hey, it sure seems like you have alot more gametime in on it than I do.
@@themadmallard Well the issue is, if you invest a lot of resources into pillaging one player, you make it easier to conquer them, but harder to conquer anyone else on the map. Here's an example: ua-cam.com/video/paTDlpHP1gs/v-deo.html I have to invest resources into pillaging literally every other player on the map evenly, otherwise they will run away with the game. And it takes up all I have.
@@suedeciviii7142 at that level of investment, yes, totally coherent point. My point is that that level of investment and level of destruction isnt necessary for it to be highly effective in a few different cases, especially in several cases where you're finding yourself at military disadvantage and expect to be until you either catch up production, or can strategise the exhaustion of opponent resources
@@themadmallard Oh yeah. Armies particularly, the AI will never attack but you can just roam around and pillage everything. But you don't need a UU to do that. It's more a point in favor of militaristic civs.
Suede, i think you should do a play through where you can only have the one worker you start with and the rest need to be slave workers farmed from the Mayan UU
Very late to the party - this is great, like everything else you've done. I can see that samurai had a role in society resembling that of European knoghts - but I can't see how the designers could justify rendering them as super-knights in the game. Fast as guys on horses? Reslly? And as someone else pointed out, they _shouldn't_ retreat! All best from Over Here
Rewatched this after I won my first game on demigod. Suede is NumidianMs and catapult deathstack a viable strategy? Also what about a conquistador bomber strat? Thanks!
Congrats on the win! What strat did you use? TBH you'd likely be better off with Hoplite + archer. But Numids have an interesting synergy because Carthage starts with alpha + masonry, so you could beeline math quite simply. Maybe not optimal but it's definitely a fun idea. Remind me, I might try it in a stream.
Also it was surprisingly easy domination victory. I just cheesed with Iroquois got the GL then built a deathstack of UUs then knights then cavalry and pitted everyone against each other
@@owenkile6042 I've never been more proud in my life. Win the easy way and then once you're done that you can go back and make it harder. Play with worse land, worse civs, etc.
@@suedeciviii7142 thanks so much! Love your videos and I use your guides to get better all the time! You should consider vanilla videos; I’m pretty sure bombers can’t kill units in that version.
on my civ the archer has only 1 for defense so the javelin thrower is a bit more useful because you dont have to build spearman or archers it is 2 in one
You can build swordsmen for the same cost as Javelins and are much stronger on attack. Bowmen are 10 shields cheaper than Javelins, have defensive bombard, and otherwise have the same stats (2/2/1)
But it’s more expensive. For 60 shields: Most nations can build 1 Archer + 2 Spearmen (1 defensive bombard/turn) or 2 Archers + 1 Spearman (2 defensive bombards/turn) the Greeks can build 1 Archer + 2 Hoplites (1 defensive bombard/turn) or 2 Archers + 1 Hoplite (2 defensive bombards/turn) the Sumerians can build 2 Archers + 2 Enkidu Warriors (2 defensive bombards/turn) and the Babylonians can build 3 Bowmen (3 defensive bombards/turn) Whereas the Mayans can only build 2 Javelin Throwers (0 defensive bombards/turn) The JT special ability (more captured enemy workers) certainly synergizes well with the Mayan’s comically overpowered Trait combination (Agricultural means more of your own workers + Industrial means your own workers are more powerful), but in terms of raw, cost-effective killing power, I’d go with the Greeks, the Babylonians, or the Sumerians.
Would put cossacks up higher as they produce military leaders and you can stack like 4 elite cossacks in an army. If you've got a significant lead then the 6 offense combined with having an army can wipe out whole continents of civs.
Really shocked the Rider wasn't number 1 personally. The Gallic Swordsman and Mounted Warrior are great but trigger a golden age in depotism if you use them at their most dangerous time. Also hard to tell how good the are with agricultural civs which are massively overpowered anyway, particularly the celts. The Chinese are not as good a civilisation as the Celts in my opinion, but riders will always win you the medieval era and trigger a golden age to build you more of them EDIT: Yeah, coming back to this, Mounted Warriors are easily the best unit in the game. I stand corrected
I mentioned in the criteria section that I didn't consider golden age timing. My reasoning was you can avoid using bad UUs, and get complete control over when your GA is. But you can't avoid using good UUs without sacrificing all the benefits they bring to combat. So golden age timing makes good UUs worse and bad UUs better. So I figured as a consideration including it would make things murky. You're right though that good unique units from the medieval era have that advantage over good unique units from the ancient era. Agreed about civ traits.
They do synergize well with the Mayan Empire's traits (more workers/settlers from Agricultural + more efficient workers from Industrious + more workers from JTs), but the point here is that in raw killing power, the JT is far less cost-effective than any of it's peers. For 60 shields: Most nations can build 1 Archer + 2 Spearmen (1 defensive bombard/turn) or 2 Archers + 1 Spearman (2 defensive bombards/turn) the Greeks can build 1 Archer + 2 Hoplites (1 defensive bombard/turn) or 2 Archers + 1 Hoplite (2 defensive bombards/turn) the Sumerians can build 2 Archers + 2 Enkidu Warriors (2 defensive bombards/turn) and the Babylonians can build 3 Bowmen (3 defensive bombards/turn) Whereas the Mayans can only build 2 Javelin Throwers (0 defensive bombards/turn)
yeah mounted warrior is overpowered. i once conquered an entire continent with just those mounted warriors. Three civilizations destroyed by a horde of these guys attacking endlessly.
My thoughts on the Keshik unit. What if instead of treating hills and mountains as roaded (why hills and mountains?) you did the same for plains and deserts? I mod a lot with minor tweeks here and there and wanna test it out, see if that makes the Mongols terrifying in the Middle Ages like they should be. Mongols were a steppe people. The advantage of being pretty much borne in the saddle is amplified most of all on flat terrain. Therefore...give them their historical, extremely harrying mobility advantage where it should be! I'll report back here if it works out nicely.
They don't treat mountains and hills as roaded. That would be actually good. They just ignore the movement penalty. That ability actually doesn't exist in the editor too. Either they treat everything as road or nothing. IMO just put them at 5/2/2 and you have a strong but fair UU
@@suedeciviii7142 Thanks for clearing that up. I had the distinction nagging me in the back of my mind and realized after hitting send...he'll probably clear it up for me! If I made the Keshik treat all terrain as roads, they'd be sort of equivalent to Conquistadores, right? Replacing the knight for Mongols, whereas Conq. replace Explorers. I don't like to give upgraded attack values often as it can be overpowering but I like your suggestion. I'll give it a try.
@@suedeciviii7142 Thanks for your entire channel by the way. Very good videos for a game I've enjoyed on and off for years. I actually go back to Civ 1 when it came out! Just one more turn...one more turn.
They're a good unit, but they're so expensive. 5 cavalry cost the same as 4 sipahi. 4 sipahi are better than 5 cavalry, but not overwhelmingly so like the units in the top 2 tiers. They also come pretty late in the tech tree. I realize a lot of people don't like early game military aggression, but it's the best way to put yourself in a game winning position, so I ranked unique units that help with it pretty highly.
Musketeer have huge benefit for games you do not expect/intent to draft. No draft, no spies, no need for Nat. So the length of time till cav's is not a factor. Beeline to RP makes Musketeer a great unit. Otherwise I agree.
Question: does anybody else have a problem with conquering people because every time I go to take somebody's last city it just gives them a city super far away that they didn't have before
If anyone knows how to keep all the AI Civs from attacking you I'd love to hear about it. It makes things so difficult when you are constantly warring with all AIs at once for most of the game. In trading, I've tried being nice, I've tried being a jerk, and all levels in between. Nothing works!
Give in anytime they try to bully you. Have a big army. Make sure they're at war with other civs. AI civs only declare random wars if they are at peace.
What is the value of judging unique units independent of their civilization and/or civilization's traits? It is the only scenario in which these units are available and a great synergy between a civ's strength and their UU is good, isn't it? I guess, what catastrophe are we trying to avoid by *not* considering the larger picture?
I wish the game had the early "fighter" kill the enemy outright; it would look like strafing .. I like to have a few fighters on defense when the AI attacks; it's neat to watch them scramble to down the attacker : ) I think they only "damage" units on the ground meh : (
I was thinking of a "new player challenge" video. All cities at least 4 tiles apart, build all wonders available, no happiness slider, all workers on automate. "Enter Seed" let's you play the on a particular random map.
@@ianokan9120 Each random map has a seed associated with it. In the new game screen, in the top right there's an option to input a seed. This means you can play on a random map that you played on before, or that a friend played on. Example: the seed to my peaceful builder game is 160064512. If you want to play on the map, use that seed. (the game in questions: ua-cam.com/video/R0JJ7aro5pQ/v-deo.html)
I am surprised that Numidians are considered so bad. They don't seem that hard to make when you first get them, you can attack longbowmen before they can attack you, and they are stupid useful if you're dealing with rushing barbarians or stacks of enemies. As far as I can tell, muskteers are only slightly better, cost a lot more, take a long longer to train, and are available a lot latter. I find this unit to be insanely useful if for some reason I can't get ahold of iron or horses to save my life, and am stuck leaning on Ancient Cavalry for half my fighting needs. Maybe this is because I play with half production costs and get attacked a lot, while not having anyone who can trade me iron?
My opinion of them has improved significantly since I made this list. They're not cost effective in terms of shields, but they're cost effective in terms of unit support. They are useful on archi maps when playing republic.
@@suedeciviii7142 None of the units in medieval times are "cost effective" in terms of shields over their previous counterparts until cavalry. Muskets vs pikes is the worst example. But due to support cost and the shield out put of larger cities they're still welcomed.
@@majungasaurusaaaa That's true but early on cost inefficiency is super relevant. Early game you just need bodies for unit support, blocking tiles, scouting, buying time for your reinforcements to arrive, etc.
@@suedeciviii7142 Numidians have their own unique way to use. If you build couple of them and send to pillage nearest civ's improvements, ai will turn on archer spam. With 2 attack you can relatively safely clear lone archers on enemy territory, what's impossible with hoplites f.e., they will be simply ignored. I play mostly on emperor level and absolutely love to cripple my neighbour early while expanding myself.
IMO, I absolutely hate all the UUs that replace knights, for a simple reason - they cannot be upgraded to cavalry. My military strategy in early middle ages to eartly-mid industrial era (sometimes as late as late industrial) revolves around building an army of knights, destroying as many enemies as I can and then quickly upgrade my knights into cavalry and again stomp as many enemies as I can. The UUs completely ruin this strategy. At least Ansar Warrior and War elephant provide some good value, but Keshik and Cossack are just completely useless and I would easily move them to Tier 6.
They can be upgraded to cavalry. Ansars and keshiks are a little more expensive to upgrade (since they're cheaper) but they all upgrade. Give China a try :)
@@suedeciviii7142 Hmmm, this must be one of the cases of "mandela" effect, since I have a memory of not being to upgrade Cossack... Is it possible it wasn't an option in Vannila or PTW and they changed it in Conquests? Even civilization.fandom.com says they cannot be upgraded. I have some brief experience only with russians, I never played the other civs... edit: and now I even see Cossack is a unique unit for Cavalry, lol. My memory is wonky... Are you sure Keshiks, samurais and War elephants upgrade to cavalry? If not, I might have mistaken my experience with Keshik/mongols for Cossack/russia, it's been a long time....
I don’t understand why you dislike the javelin thrower so much. It’s basically a bowmen that can get you +1 population every six times you kill an enemy
It's 50% more expensive than a bowman and doesn't have defensive bombard. Look at it this way. Babylon and maya in a 1v1. Babylon builds 6 bowmen for 120 shields. Mayans builds 6 javelins for 180 shields. Let's say they trade evenly. All the units kill each other, nothing is left over, but the mayans get 2 slave workers out of the equation. Fantastic Meanwhile, Babylon saved 60 shields and used them to build a granary like 20 turns ago. Which position would you rather be in? A granary is way better than 2 slave workers. And the bowman isn't even an especially good unit!
I'm confused as to why the 3 Man Chariot gets a low ranking for being basically a weaker horseman rather than a strong chariot, but the War Chariot gets a high ranking for the same reason? Is it just because the War Chariot is cheaper?
Yes. It is 100% because the War chariot is cheaper. 9 war chariots will get a lot more done than 6 three mans. And this early in the game, the defense stat on a unit that is both a) designed for offense and b) mobile, is virtually irrelevant.
@@suedeciviii7142 my disaster Korea save might be winnable now idk. Im basically North Korea with 20ish pikes and 10 trebs in my DMZ. America occupies the southern half of the continent, fittingly.
Jesus, one of the last games i've slaved like 40 workers, most of them in ancient and medieval just by having a bunch of javs. That basically allowed me to not really build workers, saving some gpt and increasing growth tldr I love javs
Regarding the War Elephant: You say that the "no resource requirement" is a small bonus, but actually it's a serious disadvantage! Because it means you can't use the "disconnect/reconnect strategy" for mass-producing them... So in my opinion, the War Elephant is weaker than the standard Knight. (And of course much much weaker than the Rider.) The extra HP doesn't mean much, if you can produce more than twice as many ordinary Knights via disconnect/reconnect than you can produce War Elephants. (And if you can combine disconnect/reconnect with Leonardo's Workshop, it becomes really insane...) Just take a look at the Civfanatics GOTM: many of the fastest Conquest/Domination wins have been achieved with disconnect/reconnect... Regarding the Cossack: don't underestimate the "guaranteed upgrade to elite" that you have with them! All you need is a few barb camps (and an era-change barb uprising...) and you can make all your Cossacks elite, before actually attacking your enemy. That means more Armies, and Cossack Armies slice through anything like a hot knife through butter... I would also rank the Berserk higher than you did: it's an overpowered unit, because the AI is completely defenseless against it, if you use it right. Plus it can be mass-upgraded from Archers. And if you combine it with the Great Lighthouse, your boats won't get attacked by the AI until they get Astronomy! You can do insane things with the Berserk, like this One City Challenge on Deity level, which was won by Conquest victory: forums.civfanatics.com/threads/occc1-one-city-conquest.491935/ Or this easy 650 AD Domination victory on Sid level in COTM127: forums.civfanatics.com/threads/cotm127-dalecarlia-sid-final-spoiler-game-submitted.606686/#post-14630691 Completely agree on the Mounted Warrior: hands-down the best unit in the game! So my "Tier 1" units would be: Mounted Warrior, Berserk, Rider. Gallic Swordsman only "Tier 2", because it is weaker than the Mounted Warrior. Cossack would be at least "Tier 2", while the War Elephant is only "Tier 4". The rest seems more or less right.
damn this channel is a gold mine with no despotism penalty
Just wanted to say that it’s awesome to see your channel grow lately and that Civ 3 has probably been my aesthetically, and probably subjectively, favorite game I’ve ever played. You’ve definitely gotten me as addicted to this game as I was in 2004 over the past year. Keep it up
Cossacks are military leader producing machines, which is very important in single player games because the AI has no answer for armies.
Two things:
In Vanilla, the Medieval Infantry didn't used to exist, and the Swordsman couldn't be upgraded at all. This led Civ3 and Civ4 legend Sullla to declare the Immortal, "the special unit so strong they gave it to everyone in the expansion." In turn, the Medieval Infantry made the Longbow useless in PtW, meaning the Berserk was free real estate (though by your rules, you didn't take that into consideration.
Also, even you understated the use of the +1 hp. On regular units, that boost can be equivalent to as much as a 50% boost because one more dice roll is often worth more than a more weighted die. Also why upgrading Elite Mounted Warriors isn't even worth it.
I like the Javelin thrower myself. I build a couple early game and just send them out hunting for barbarians while expanding. I've never had 1 die to barbarians, and using only 2-3 per game, I usually end up with 20 or more free (albeit slower) workers. The Mayans are already quiet fast starters, so having these guys sending a steady stream of slave workers back to your expansion zone really gets you pumping early. The workers are maintenance free also, so if you disband a lot of your workers after railroads, you can keep these free units for pollution or building around captured cities etc.
Not to mention, these workers can also be settled in cities, increase your population, and therefore also your military limit and production etc.
I like them too!
@@HolyKhaaaaanjust out of curiosity, barb slaves when turned into pop are counted as foreign population, or as your own population?
@@Jadanbr foreign or no cost
@@MarcDufresneosorusrex i dont understand your question, but if you also have the same question as me, joining barbs into cities will still count as foreign pop, the problem is that barb populations will experience "stop the aggression against our country" unhappiness 100% of the time
For the first time I decided to try out the English strategy on a higher level of gameplay. I’ve played as the English before but a long time ago and never much cared to try them out again… boy was I in for a surprise. My early game was weaker, and I got pretty far behind. I was able to secure the great lighthouse which made the ai unable to cross the seas and I got to colonize almost every island exclusively to myself. Of course, the AI hates anyone with a larger land area so they all wanted my islands and declared war on me before they could even get into range with their 3 movement ships. I was able to get to my man-o-wars and build as many as possible in a short time, filling the seas with my ships. The enslave is great, more ships without cost/turn that will be more powerful than anything for an entire age of technology. Yeah it was a rough start, but I turned that game around so fast I really want to try and make it more difficult. Amazing underrated unit imo.
18:56 I was rewatching this video for fun and I decided to finally try a Jaguar Warrior rush and actually won my first ever Emperor game. Now I'm winning games on Demigod! I wish I could catch more of your streams live, but I am loving all your older videos.
Congrats! Aztecs have fantastic traits too, really helps close out games. I don't stream anymore Remi, but follow me on twitter or join the discord and I'll let you know if I do :)
Some important new considerations for me. Thank you again for your effort and time.
My man I grew up playing this game and still do to this day. I always thought I was a good player but your videos have me looking at civ in a completely different way Haha! Keep up the good work
Once i was so behind in tech that i said Fuck it im going to war ... and decided to stack 120 Sipahi and i conquered everyone in my continent in a few turns even with AI rifleman as defensive unit. I was overwhelmed by the power. Many died that day though! lol
I think my last 20 games have been with the Ottomans. So good.
Keshik has always bothered me. Mongols were notoriously known as lords of the plains, and their expansion into Europe pretty much stopped at significant natural borders. So you know what wouldn't make any damn sense? Giving their UU extra mobility over mountains!
Seriously, they should have just made Keshik 4/2/3 and then come up with something else for Arabs.
Also some of the other shitty UUs, I don't really understand what were the devs thinking. How can conquistador be even remotely useful in a single player (then again, explorer is completely useless to begin with). Why not just move him to Chivalry, replacing knight, and come up with some improved stats, like 5/3/2, or something. Or come up with something completely different and historically significant - for example Tercio (instead of pikeman, with 1/4/1, and come up with something else for the Dutch) or Inquisitor (instead of knight, with same stats, but enslave ability to create another Inquisitor)
Thankfully the devs made Keshiks the best Unique Unit (imho) in Civ 5
@@RadicOmega ohh I want to try it now
@@MarcDufresneosorusrex civ 5
is good game
Civ3 Samurai will always have a special place in my heart!
They kick ass in multuplayer :) Fast moving defenders in general, like the impi and the war elephant.
As someone who found their way here from watching civ 6 videos, this would benefit greatly if you introduced which civ the units belong to
Oh sorry! You're right. I put the unit stats on screen while I was talking about them but I didn't remember to put civ they belong to.
I have another video ranking the civilizations. It lists the civ traits, the name of the civ, along with the UU stats. You might find that one more digestible.
ua-cam.com/video/1AE643ohqVE/v-deo.html
@@suedeciviii7142 cheers mate I'm giving it a watch now. I think a slide at the start with a summary of what the traits actually do would be useful, but I took a quick trip to the civ wiki to get up to speed and now I'm enjoying it. I remember messing around in civ 3 when I was a kid but didn't get serious about it until civ 5. It's fun to look back and come to understand the older game with a more critical eye!
My first conquest was with zulus, i spamed those impis like mad. And other was rush for feudalism , grab iron and then kill everyone with samurais till i get army. Damn that was over 18 years ago.
Want a match? xD
ohh~~ sweet strat there
It just dawned on me - if a unit has 3 movement points, it can move 2 tiles over hills, no? So literally the only time when Keshik is better than Ansar is if your first move is over unroaded mountain. Which happens how many times? Maybe 5 % of all your moves?
yep
that’s true but the keshik can also move over mountains. the ansar warrior expends all movement points at mountains
Hoplites are so great. "3 defense is a luxury in the ancient era" - yes, and it comes cheap at 20 shields. With barracks you can make a strong defense army relatively cheap, and it deters the AI from attacking (which is strategy as well). This makes them very useful and used in fact; AI opponents with stronger armies did not attack, or if they did, stacking 5 Hoplites per mountain/hill tile along with some archers or longbowmen can pretty much stop armies.
I think after this video I gave Greece a try and realized that I'd underrated them. But a lot of that is due to the amazing synergy between their UU and their traits. If you gave the Hoplite to say, the Zulu, it would be an underwhelming unit.
Still, I do think it's better than the Swiss Mercenary now. I think I underestimated how long it's useful for. Sure, it's not very useful for most of the ancient era as I rightly pointed out, but these guys are so cost efficient that I think building them is justifiable up until infantry are available. And as long as you haven't had your golden age, you can still build the hoplite.
I play more at the Monarch level, but I like pillaging and razing. Pillaging is crucial for resource denial (example: cutting off an enemy's saltpeter to deny them cavalry), as well as sabotaging important roads.
Razing is great because you can build your own city on the tile and avoid cultural conversions. I am also a huge fan of building cities in culture "gaps" and then rushing culture buildings to basically mass-migrate into an enemy's turf.
The Keshik and the Hwacha were on the back of the CD case I bought for Civ III, even though it was vanilla.
I was surprised to see the javelin thrower at the bottom, considering that I love that unit. Then again, I only play at monarch level.
The Mayans are a top tier civ, and the extra growth and shields you get from the Mayan traits (industrious and agricultural) are more than enough to pay for the extra shields that the Javelin Thrower costs.
@@suedeciviii7142 Makes sense. I guess that in the hands of another civ the javelin throwers wouldn't be so great.
On the hoplite, the AI can sometimes be baited into attacking you when you block their settler efforts. Perhaps they need to view you as weaker than they are overall, but I've blocked them at chokepoints in the past, like a one or two land gap, until I can get around to settling that area. They will grow until frustrated to attack. The AI will also attack you if you tell it to get out of your territory. Imagine a key city with a temple (or your capitol) blocking his settling route. Two hoplites can withstand unlimited warriors and four can stop archers, swords and horsemen attacks. It'll be just like Thermopylae where the waves of attacks will crash against a wall of bronze, except you'll win forever until a large number of cannons or knights. And by then you'll have accomplished your goal and be miles ahead of them.
Warriors can hold choke points, unless the enemy declares war. In which case, yeah, hoplites are insane, although the AI can use boats.
As for your second example: if you let the AI just run around in your land, they'll pillage and block your worker moves.
They are good at guarding stacks though, and occasionally the ai gets baited into attacking them.
funny how you ranked the Javelin Thrower the worst UU, this is my absolute favorite and I really appreciate the constant worker flow from ancient wars or raging barbarians. also, you don't have to build spearmen to protect your cities
You should do a ranking of the best nations
Hello,Suede-thank you very much for all your videos;rules;explanations and advices about Civilization 3 - I adore this fantastic game!
My favorite is Mounted Warrior,Iroquois-because it’s my favorite nation,with these Indians I’m lucky in all parts:resources;cities;developments;wonders;money and war-especially war,whereas my favorite part of this game is - military!
Actually,my favorite nations are Indian tripes,but the Iroquois are - tremendous!
I adore conquer all enemies,using Mounted Warriors (especially,due to Golden Age) and not only them - I adore Statue of Zeus and Knights Templar,whereas they produce an Ancient Cavalries and a Crusaders (they’re one of my favorite units in all game with any nations,especially-Ancient Cavalry)!
Therefore-thank you very much again for all your help,I wish you all the best;best of luck;more subscribers;favorites and cool comments and commentaries - GOD BLESS YOU !!!
Thank you! I'm glad we agree about the Mounted Warrior.
@@suedeciviii7142
Thank you so much !!!
With Conquistador, you forgot to mention the strategy of putting them in an army, and then pillaging 9 tiles per turn, sending your opponent back into stone age :) Especially deadly since AI doesn't attack full health armies. Of cource only useful when you're not planning to integrate enemy cities into your empire.
unless he edited the video since posting, he did mention it
The Vikings Berserker unit is my favorite. High attack with a marine capability.
Nice video
Keep it up
Making a powerpoint presentation for that just stole my heart.
Personally, I'd rate the Enkidu Warrior as one of the best units in the game because of expansion speed. When expanding, you can spend 40 shields for a settler and a warrior, 50 for a settler and two warriors, or 50 for a settler and a spearman. Enkidu lets you pay 40 for one spearman or 50 for two, and makes expanding at breakneck speed much less dangerous. Given that more expansion=more cities=more resources=more production and commerce=more units and research=winning wars=more expansion=etc., this can set off an early game snowball with devastating effects. When I kick up to a new difficulty I always play Sumerian because of this.
I've definitely learned to appreciate the Hoplite, Enkidu, and Numidian Mercenary a bit more since making this list. But I don't really with what you said.
So in my most recent video on difficulties, I analyzed how the AI operates on different levels. You'll notice that on regent, by the time all the land is taken up, the AIs don't have a single offensive unit, aside from warriors. The AI simply isn't programmed to focus on offensive units until the expansion phase is over.
So all you need to defend your cities during the expansion phase is warriors. They provide military police, and deal with barbarians fine.
Of course, you'll have to replace them with better defenders later on, at least in border cities. But that won't effect your ability to claim territory.
TLDR: if building defensive units slows down your expansion significantly, you're building too many defensive units.
@@suedeciviii7142 I do use warriors when not playing as the Sumerians, but I always feel exposed, and sometimes I lose a city to a surprise attack. They give peace of mind as much as solid defense.
@@suedeciviii7142 And Numidian Mercs do suck, since the cost cripples your defenses into the middle ages.
@@suedeciviii7142 And I'd put the Cossack lower on the list, since their attack isn't strong enough to carry them through attacking more than once per turn. They tend to lose too much health. Tanks can reliably double tap, the Cossack can't.
@@Quantumironturtle Yeah, my thoughts exactly. But someone else explained why Carthage is a strong pick for certain maps and conditions, and the numidian mercenary is a big part of that. They're versatile and can do things no other unit in the era can. Sure they're pricey, but the same can be said of spearmen relative to warriors.
Great video again, Thanks
One of the nice things about blitz for cossacks is that it's easier to get elites.. If you kill 2 units with one unit in the same turn you allways get an upgrade. I think that's why people like em so much?
cossacks are the best for counter attacking and breaking lines
Imagine if you could have berserks on dromons
Beserks on carracks. Then nobody's safe.
I’m gonna give the war chariot strategy a try now. I never used it because I though it was just a shittier horseman never considered shielsa
Egypt has really strong traits too!
The fact you dont need to spend 30 gold to upgrade your hoplites in medieval is huge for me. Disband by muskets or just skip muskets
You're ok with disbanding by muskets or skipping muskets but not pikes? I mean, yeah muskets are shit. But pikes aren't too much better. It's better to use knights as your defenders. Or legions for that matter. So their longevity is a nice bonus, but it's not a guarantee by any means. You shouldn't usually be building a bunch of pikes.
@@suedeciviii7142 Noted. I have unit support probs often and it makes me stay in despotism longer than I should. I always have at least a pike per city
@@suedeciviii7142 also the reason I always thought pikes were important is because I always get pushed around at start of medieval, but I feel like if Ive not been attacked by muskets then I might as well wait for rifles.
@@GrannySoupLadle Knights are better because of their mobility, ability to retreat, counterattack, etc.
@@suedeciviii7142 I never do medeival push usually though I only defend cities with military in medieval. U mean knight will defend a city better than a pike? Or is the idea the knight can retake? Im scared to lose cities and fall behind in science before I can get to a comfy stage for attacking, which for me is atleast having cavalry with artillery. I never do medieval attacks I just realised, its either ancient or mid-industrial
always been a fan of Immortals
I used to use war elephants a lot as a child because I was bad at securing resources
War elephants should demand ivory. :D
Except you get ivory from elephants, not the other way around.
Matt Rankin but how can you recruit elephants if there are no elephants? No ivory would also mean no elephants, so no war elephants.
@@hotdogfingerz9674 I was only being sarcastic, but my serious answer would be that Ivory is a luxury resource, not a strategic one. Luxury resources seem to be distributed differently so that 1 civ is most likely to end up with all of them, meaning you would be far less likely to even be able to build your UU as the Indians, and that wouldn't be very good.
Keshiks were pretty good. Cheaper is better. But they should have given Keshiks the original retreat ability that all fast units had that they got rid of in Play the World.
What was that retreat ability.
I agree, Keshiks are an upgrade on knights just due to the price.
@@suedeciviii7142 Fast units were always able to retreat from a fight unless they started the fight with 1 health.
I just conquered england and holand by berserk from the sea，quite useful！！
You could ask them for Danegeld.
Great work dude
Hello, your videos are very helpful as always. The wiki says Keshiks have ZOC (zone of control) how useful is that? It is not mentioned in your video but, would it make the Keshiks slightly better? The other unique knights don't have ZOC.
My favorite unit is in the first place - Mounted Warrior,a unique unit for the Iroquois,it’s my favorite nation - I’m always lucky with the Iroquois everywhere,especially at war - it’s my favorite part in Civilization 3 !!!
Can you do a video ranking the non-unique units from worst to best? (relative to their in-game timing and shield cost)
In the first release of civ 3 jaguar warriors cost as much as warriors and replaced them. They were nerfed by making them cost slightly more. But i was such a kid when i played that version that i didn't know how to use them properly
samurai are by far the best unique unit. They walk through infantry units like they are paper tigers.
Why did i get this recommendation of my all time favourite game? I haven't gotten a recommended about this game maybe ever before
Would be really interested to see you take advantage of the worst unit in the game - the javelin thrower. Maybe you could showcase the slave worker farming in your Sunday stream?
Do slaves get the speed bonus from Being industrial?
Maybe the challenge should be can’t build workers - wondering how much more income you would end up with, not paying for other workers except from your starting one!
You should of course also trade for workers when possible and try to capture enemy ones :-)
I wanted to do a 60% water game after how badly I failed at them last stream. Maybe I could use the Mayans for that!
The challenge you gave is also a good one. Might be appropriate for emperor.
Suede CivIII cool! Looking forward to it, might not be able to join the stream live, but I’ll definitely watch the recording of not!
Suede CivIII only got a chance to see the first part of the stream last Sunday, but it didn’t seem like you went for the slave farming showcase / no workers built challenge, but still hoping to see it another Sunday then 👍
Considerations at the beginning
1:30 Tier 6 - Garbage, better to not have them at all
1:40 31. Javelin Thrower
3:13 30. Chasqui Scout
4:40 Tier 5 - Usually better, nice to have them, realistically worse. Not recommended to build around them
7:13 29. F-15
6:52 28. Numidian Mercenary
7:53 27. Conquistador
8:53 26. Keshik
10:36 25.Three Man Chariot
11:12 24. Cossack
12:10 Tier 4 - Improved in realistic situations
12:20 23. Musketeer
12:54 22. Impi
14:23 21. Man-o-War
14:40 20. Carrack
15:38 19. Hoplite
16:19 18. Panzer
17:12 17. Swiss Mercenary
17:54 Tier 3 - Great utility units
18:04 16. Jaguar Warrior
19:18 15. Bowman
20:08 14. Enkidu Warrior
21:22 13. Samurai
21:46 12. Legionary
22:52 11. Hwacha
24:06 Tier 2 - Very strong units
24:14 10. Dromon
25:25 9. Sipahi
26:11 8. War Chariot
26:58 7. Immortals
28:29 6. Ansar Warrior
29:07 5. Berserk
30:27 4. Rider
30:58 3. War Elephant
32:33 Tier 1 - OP units because of civilization traits
32:47 2. Gallic Swordsman
34:00 1. Mounted Warrior
A lot of it is situational to your tech lead, I usually rush military tradition as Russia. (Potentially using Great Library to keep up with the tech lead.)
I like to out tech the other civs then switch all my production to cossacks and dominate my home continent.
My favorite unit in Civ3 is the War Elephant. It isn't accurate either that only India can build them; the Persians, Carthaginians, Romans and Ptolemy Egyptian dynasty also used them. I usually change this with Civ3 Edit.
Hmmm that gives me an idea! 😏💡
@@99oildrops It would be really cool if we could have woolly mammoths in this game as mounted units too
@@skinnydavenport407 Litteraly just cause mammoths are cool. lol
@@99oildrops If you don't mind continuing this funny chat between Civ3 fans, I have a stuffed mammoth named Ellie and I'm actually considering making her a war elephant costume out of felt. Don't know if that would be too weird.
I am under impression that you've missed a part of the puzzle here. That is what can you take from AI and map, Blitz and Armies.
Frirst: what can you take from the AI?
With early chariot type units, you can take 3 settlements from AI. AI can build population, cities and improvements faster than you and that is a big factor. If you have to build 10 settlers and drag them for turn after turn and later build every single improvement it can be a lot of work. It also costs population and costs you by not building the other units or improvements. For that reason it is important how many towns you can take from your enemies when that units comes can be built. That would mean that most early units don't have a great utility.
Second: Early map scouting.
I've lagged so much at the start because I can't research as fast as the other civs. I can compensate that by having a scout. Better yet, having an early fast unit like impi that can search the whole map.
Third: Leaders
leaders and leveling of units. You can level your unit that has blitz so much faster than the other ones. That gives you better chance of getting a leader. That would place units that can have at 2x chance of getting a leader. For me that places them much higher on the list. Not to go into situations where you can attack 2 times with one blitz unit. That means that at least 1/2 of your cossacs can attack 2 times because they have enough health. Combine that with artillery and couple of defensive units and you can have a real cost effective doom-stack.
Forth:Armies.
Is a unit good enough to place in a army? Is that army useful for enough time for you to use a leader on it?
Last, can you build an army at the time when you have that unit? That would place good mid game like French musketeers higher on the list. Such defensive army can last for a decent duration during a game. Not to go into how effective are they when you have 10 1hp cavalry units that need defending.
Samurai are my personal favorite and I think they are a top 5 unit. They demolish any middle age units, including the war elephant. You get 3 or 4 samurai in an Army? Look out! They only require iron to build, have an extra defensive point to make it 4/4. I’ve used them successfully even into the Industrial Age. And they can be upgraded to cavalry.
Defense stat of samurai = 4
Attack stat of samurai = 4
Defense stat of War Elephant = 3.75 (effectively)
Attack stat of War Elephant = 5 (effectively)
Plus elephants don't require iron. It's really no contest, the war elephant is much better.
Gallic Swordsmen REPRESENT!
RIP if you don't have iron before feudalism though.
Celts are fun.
I played as the Persians hoping to get the Immortals... Then I got sandwiched between England and the Azteks and got no iron. 😵😂 RIP.
I think Keshik would be well balanced balanced if it ignored movement cost of ANY terrain (including forrests, jungles and marshes). With only hills and mountains, they are just too situationally dependent.
Legionnaires are a great unit my favorite factions are Rome. Never lost when you can spam 20 some legions
@8:47 reeely think you're underselling the deeper game with the pillaging strategies, especially if you find yourself on defense. You can cause all sorts of havoc with them that have cascading effects with a high mobility pillager. If you're dealing with a belligerent border AI, especially with a stronger/bigger civ than you, you can majorly increase the cost of warfare against you without absolutely stripping the land like you say. First, you wreck the roads on the AI side of the boarder asap to cause them to spend an extra turn to reach you, or to pull out damaged units or even better, delay their response to another AI attacking them. Then you can send a high mobility unit in to disrupt resource and luxury tiles. That can cause instability by not only increasing the cost of happy faces, but also wrecking trade agreements that keep hostility low between AIs otherwise, or create an available trade option for you to enter into.
If Civ was a 1v1 game you'd be completely right, but it's not. As a result generally pillage strats are not very good. They weaken both the pillager and the pillaged player, without actually providing anything to the pillaging player, aside from weakening the AI. Contrast that with conquest, where you gain cities and land.
Weakening the enemy can be good, but you bear the cost of pillaging and all the other AI civs are free riding off you.
In multiplayer, where games are played with 4v4 teams, units like the impi are really good.
@@suedeciviii7142 I still think you're not giving the devil's due, (at least one point being that your reasoning a supposition that successful conquest is always an option available to players at all times, or that accelerating your foes consumption of resources doesnt open up a conquest option's door more widely), but hey, it sure seems like you have alot more gametime in on it than I do.
@@themadmallard Well the issue is, if you invest a lot of resources into pillaging one player, you make it easier to conquer them, but harder to conquer anyone else on the map.
Here's an example:
ua-cam.com/video/paTDlpHP1gs/v-deo.html
I have to invest resources into pillaging literally every other player on the map evenly, otherwise they will run away with the game. And it takes up all I have.
@@suedeciviii7142 at that level of investment, yes, totally coherent point. My point is that that level of investment and level of destruction isnt necessary for it to be highly effective in a few different cases, especially in several cases where you're finding yourself at military disadvantage and expect to be until you either catch up production, or can strategise the exhaustion of opponent resources
@@themadmallard Oh yeah. Armies particularly, the AI will never attack but you can just roam around and pillage everything. But you don't need a UU to do that. It's more a point in favor of militaristic civs.
You should do one of these for the base units
Suede, i think you should do a play through where you can only have the one worker you start with and the rest need to be slave workers farmed from the Mayan UU
Did it for a stream. It was pretty boring, sorry
Damn starting off bashing one of my favorite UU the javelin thrower
Your fave is problematic
Is there any method to get more players on a tiny map?
i don't like hacks. But if it is necesary it would still improve the game. Thank you.
In multiplayer, we use the "tournament" game mode to make it happen. Aside from that I'm not sure.
@@suedeciviii7142; Thank you very much :)
Very late to the party - this is great, like everything else you've done.
I can see that samurai had a role in society resembling that of European knoghts - but I can't see how the designers could justify rendering them as super-knights in the game. Fast as guys on horses? Reslly? And as someone else pointed out, they _shouldn't_ retreat!
All best from Over Here
Rewatched this after I won my first game on demigod. Suede is NumidianMs and catapult deathstack a viable strategy? Also what about a conquistador bomber strat? Thanks!
Congrats on the win! What strat did you use?
TBH you'd likely be better off with Hoplite + archer. But Numids have an interesting synergy because Carthage starts with alpha + masonry, so you could beeline math quite simply.
Maybe not optimal but it's definitely a fun idea. Remind me, I might try it in a stream.
@@suedeciviii7142 will do! I’d love to see it
Also it was surprisingly easy domination victory. I just cheesed with Iroquois got the GL then built a deathstack of UUs then knights then cavalry and pitted everyone against each other
@@owenkile6042 I've never been more proud in my life.
Win the easy way and then once you're done that you can go back and make it harder. Play with worse land, worse civs, etc.
@@suedeciviii7142 hahaha exactly!
Was the musketeer changed at some point? I play vanilla and it’s attack/defense are 3/3, not 2/5.
Yes, they're 3/4/1 in vanilla and 2/5/1 with defensive bombard in C3C
@@suedeciviii7142 thanks so much! Love your videos and I use your guides to get better all the time! You should consider vanilla videos; I’m pretty sure bombers can’t kill units in that version.
Plsss do a settings video :)
What do you mean?
on my civ the archer has only 1 for defense so the javelin thrower is a bit more useful because you dont have to build spearman or archers it is 2 in one
You can build swordsmen for the same cost as Javelins and are much stronger on attack. Bowmen are 10 shields cheaper than Javelins, have defensive bombard, and otherwise have the same stats (2/2/1)
But it’s more expensive.
For 60 shields:
Most nations can build 1 Archer + 2 Spearmen (1 defensive bombard/turn) or 2 Archers + 1 Spearman (2 defensive bombards/turn)
the Greeks can build 1 Archer + 2 Hoplites (1 defensive bombard/turn) or 2 Archers + 1 Hoplite (2 defensive bombards/turn)
the Sumerians can build 2 Archers + 2 Enkidu Warriors (2 defensive bombards/turn)
and the Babylonians can build 3 Bowmen (3 defensive bombards/turn)
Whereas the Mayans can only build 2 Javelin Throwers (0 defensive bombards/turn)
The JT special ability (more captured enemy workers) certainly synergizes well with the Mayan’s comically overpowered Trait combination (Agricultural means more of your own workers + Industrial means your own workers are more powerful), but in terms of raw, cost-effective killing power, I’d go with the Greeks, the Babylonians, or the Sumerians.
Would put cossacks up higher as they produce military leaders and you can stack like 4 elite cossacks in an army.
If you've got a significant lead then the 6 offense combined with having an army can wipe out whole continents of civs.
Really shocked the Rider wasn't number 1 personally. The Gallic Swordsman and Mounted Warrior are great but trigger a golden age in depotism if you use them at their most dangerous time. Also hard to tell how good the are with agricultural civs which are massively overpowered anyway, particularly the celts. The Chinese are not as good a civilisation as the Celts in my opinion, but riders will always win you the medieval era and trigger a golden age to build you more of them
EDIT: Yeah, coming back to this, Mounted Warriors are easily the best unit in the game. I stand corrected
I mentioned in the criteria section that I didn't consider golden age timing. My reasoning was you can avoid using bad UUs, and get complete control over when your GA is. But you can't avoid using good UUs without sacrificing all the benefits they bring to combat.
So golden age timing makes good UUs worse and bad UUs better. So I figured as a consideration including it would make things murky.
You're right though that good unique units from the medieval era have that advantage over good unique units from the ancient era.
Agreed about civ traits.
@@suedeciviii7142 Yeah wasnt trying to be too critical, I do appreciate the civ3 videos, been waiting for them for a while
Am I late? I agree with most things, except from the cossak which I think should be higher. Good video though!
Javenlin throwers, for blocking that AIs gold mine on that mountain.
They do synergize well with the Mayan Empire's traits (more workers/settlers from Agricultural + more efficient workers from Industrious + more workers from JTs), but the point here is that in raw killing power, the JT is far less cost-effective than any of it's peers.
For 60 shields:
Most nations can build 1 Archer + 2 Spearmen (1 defensive bombard/turn) or 2 Archers + 1 Spearman (2 defensive bombards/turn)
the Greeks can build 1 Archer + 2 Hoplites (1 defensive bombard/turn) or 2 Archers + 1 Hoplite (2 defensive bombards/turn)
the Sumerians can build 2 Archers + 2 Enkidu Warriors (2 defensive bombards/turn)
and the Babylonians can build 3 Bowmen (3 defensive bombards/turn)
Whereas the Mayans can only build 2 Javelin Throwers (0 defensive bombards/turn)
yeah mounted warrior is overpowered. i once conquered an entire continent with just those mounted warriors. Three civilizations destroyed by a horde of these guys attacking endlessly.
Any time I play this game and my first settler ends up putting me near the Iriquois I just say to myself "Oh great, not again."
My thoughts on the Keshik unit. What if instead of treating hills and mountains as roaded (why hills and mountains?) you did the same for plains and deserts? I mod a lot with minor tweeks here and there and wanna test it out, see if that makes the Mongols terrifying in the Middle Ages like they should be. Mongols were a steppe people. The advantage of being pretty much borne in the saddle is amplified most of all on flat terrain. Therefore...give them their historical, extremely harrying mobility advantage where it should be! I'll report back here if it works out nicely.
They don't treat mountains and hills as roaded. That would be actually good. They just ignore the movement penalty.
That ability actually doesn't exist in the editor too. Either they treat everything as road or nothing. IMO just put them at 5/2/2 and you have a strong but fair UU
@@suedeciviii7142 Thanks for clearing that up. I had the distinction nagging me in the back of my mind and realized after hitting send...he'll probably clear it up for me!
If I made the Keshik treat all terrain as roads, they'd be sort of equivalent to Conquistadores, right? Replacing the knight for Mongols, whereas Conq. replace Explorers.
I don't like to give upgraded attack values often as it can be overpowering but I like your suggestion. I'll give it a try.
@@suedeciviii7142 Thanks for your entire channel by the way. Very good videos for a game I've enjoyed on and off for years. I actually go back to Civ 1 when it came out! Just one more turn...one more turn.
Ottoman Sipahi are so OP! Surprised they were only tier 3?
They're a good unit, but they're so expensive. 5 cavalry cost the same as 4 sipahi. 4 sipahi are better than 5 cavalry, but not overwhelmingly so like the units in the top 2 tiers.
They also come pretty late in the tech tree. I realize a lot of people don't like early game military aggression, but it's the best way to put yourself in a game winning position, so I ranked unique units that help with it pretty highly.
Musketeer have huge benefit for games you do not expect/intent to draft. No draft, no spies, no need for Nat. So the length of time till cav's is not a factor. Beeline to RP makes Musketeer a great unit. Otherwise I agree.
I would like to see you playing in huge map and conquering all civs on Pangea map
can you link the video you mentioned in the dromon bit
Is it this one?
ua-cam.com/video/Qd_TVd1St-0/v-deo.html
Question: does anybody else have a problem with conquering people because every time I go to take somebody's last city it just gives them a city super far away that they didn't have before
When you start a new game, disable the "respawn AI players" option.
@@suedeciviii7142 wow thanks man lol
If anyone knows how to keep all the AI Civs from attacking you I'd love to hear about it. It makes things so difficult when you are constantly warring with all AIs at once for most of the game. In trading, I've tried being nice, I've tried being a jerk, and all levels in between. Nothing works!
Give in anytime they try to bully you.
Have a big army.
Make sure they're at war with other civs. AI civs only declare random wars if they are at peace.
What is the value of judging unique units independent of their civilization and/or civilization's traits? It is the only scenario in which these units are available and a great synergy between a civ's strength and their UU is good, isn't it? I guess, what catastrophe are we trying to avoid by *not* considering the larger picture?
In terms of the f-15, how effective is its “air superiority” function?
Open question, I’m setting up for a global naval invasion.
15 is same as jet fighter IIRC. It's better at bombing, not intercepting
Well crap. Looks like we’ve got some demo to do.
Panzer:
Doesnt look like a panzer
*Doesnt even start with blitz*
Goebbels is doing back flips in his grave.
It is specially good if here are two continent separate by ocean
I really wish you listed the civilization that each unique unit belonged to.
I wish the game had the early "fighter" kill the enemy outright; it would look like strafing ..
I like to have a few fighters on defense when the AI attacks; it's neat to watch them scramble to down the attacker : ) I think they only "damage" units on the ground meh : (
Can you add text for which civilization each unit belongs to, It will make skipping through the video during repeat views much more productive.
Done, thanks for the suggestion
in your next game you do can you not put your cities right next to each other also what does the "enter seed" thingy do
I was thinking of a "new player challenge" video. All cities at least 4 tiles apart, build all wonders available, no happiness slider, all workers on automate.
"Enter Seed" let's you play the on a particular random map.
@@suedeciviii7142 how is particular and random? I dont get that also yeah do it
@@ianokan9120 Each random map has a seed associated with it.
In the new game screen, in the top right there's an option to input a seed. This means you can play on a random map that you played on before, or that a friend played on.
Example: the seed to my peaceful builder game is 160064512. If you want to play on the map, use that seed.
(the game in questions: ua-cam.com/video/R0JJ7aro5pQ/v-deo.html)
@@suedeciviii7142 now i get it
In my experience Egyptian War Chariots just fall over and die if they spot a warrior on another continent. Totally useless.
Try using them earlier. If the enemy has swords by the time you get them out, you've mostly missed the window.
I am surprised that Numidians are considered so bad. They don't seem that hard to make when you first get them, you can attack longbowmen before they can attack you, and they are stupid useful if you're dealing with rushing barbarians or stacks of enemies.
As far as I can tell, muskteers are only slightly better, cost a lot more, take a long longer to train, and are available a lot latter.
I find this unit to be insanely useful if for some reason I can't get ahold of iron or horses to save my life, and am stuck leaning on Ancient Cavalry for half my fighting needs.
Maybe this is because I play with half production costs and get attacked a lot, while not having anyone who can trade me iron?
My opinion of them has improved significantly since I made this list. They're not cost effective in terms of shields, but they're cost effective in terms of unit support. They are useful on archi maps when playing republic.
@@suedeciviii7142 None of the units in medieval times are "cost effective" in terms of shields over their previous counterparts until cavalry. Muskets vs pikes is the worst example. But due to support cost and the shield out put of larger cities they're still welcomed.
@@majungasaurusaaaa That's true but early on cost inefficiency is super relevant. Early game you just need bodies for unit support, blocking tiles, scouting, buying time for your reinforcements to arrive, etc.
@@suedeciviii7142 Numidians have their own unique way to use. If you build couple of them and send to pillage nearest civ's improvements, ai will turn on archer spam. With 2 attack you can relatively safely clear lone archers on enemy territory, what's impossible with hoplites f.e., they will be simply ignored. I play mostly on emperor level and absolutely love to cripple my neighbour early while expanding myself.
@@Niko_R Pillage strats generally aren't very good in single player, as they weaken the enemy without making you stronger.
IMO, I absolutely hate all the UUs that replace knights, for a simple reason - they cannot be upgraded to cavalry. My military strategy in early middle ages to eartly-mid industrial era (sometimes as late as late industrial) revolves around building an army of knights, destroying as many enemies as I can and then quickly upgrade my knights into cavalry and again stomp as many enemies as I can. The UUs completely ruin this strategy. At least Ansar Warrior and War elephant provide some good value, but Keshik and Cossack are just completely useless and I would easily move them to Tier 6.
They can be upgraded to cavalry. Ansars and keshiks are a little more expensive to upgrade (since they're cheaper) but they all upgrade.
Give China a try :)
@@suedeciviii7142 Hmmm, this must be one of the cases of "mandela" effect, since I have a memory of not being to upgrade Cossack... Is it possible it wasn't an option in Vannila or PTW and they changed it in Conquests? Even civilization.fandom.com says they cannot be upgraded. I have some brief experience only with russians, I never played the other civs...
edit: and now I even see Cossack is a unique unit for Cavalry, lol. My memory is wonky... Are you sure Keshiks, samurais and War elephants upgrade to cavalry? If not, I might have mistaken my experience with Keshik/mongols for Cossack/russia, it's been a long time....
@@prehistorCZ They do. Check the scenario editor if you're uncertain. I'm not super familiar with pre C3C, maybe it was different then.
The immortals carried me
11:30 those 10 shields are less than other uu costing other units in early...
I don’t understand why you dislike the javelin thrower so much. It’s basically a bowmen that can get you +1 population every six times you kill an enemy
It's 50% more expensive than a bowman and doesn't have defensive bombard.
Look at it this way. Babylon and maya in a 1v1.
Babylon builds 6 bowmen for 120 shields. Mayans builds 6 javelins for 180 shields.
Let's say they trade evenly. All the units kill each other, nothing is left over, but the mayans get 2 slave workers out of the equation. Fantastic
Meanwhile, Babylon saved 60 shields and used them to build a granary like 20 turns ago.
Which position would you rather be in? A granary is way better than 2 slave workers.
And the bowman isn't even an especially good unit!
Sipahis are so OP that it feels unsporting to play as the Ottomans.
I'm confused as to why the 3 Man Chariot gets a low ranking for being basically a weaker horseman rather than a strong chariot, but the War Chariot gets a high ranking for the same reason? Is it just because the War Chariot is cheaper?
Yes. It is 100% because the War chariot is cheaper. 9 war chariots will get a lot more done than 6 three mans. And this early in the game, the defense stat on a unit that is both a) designed for offense and b) mobile, is virtually irrelevant.
@@suedeciviii7142 Thanks! Guess I'll have to try a new rush idea.
immortals ftw
Archie Pelago, a cartographer
Why AI don't contrattack citites in the ancient era?
No galleys.
No roads.
Lack of mobile units.
And they simply haven't massed enough units to really fight back.
Wait hwacha has lethal bombard?? What have I been doing my whole life
yes, Game changer huh?
@@suedeciviii7142 my disaster Korea save might be winnable now idk. Im basically North Korea with 20ish pikes and 10 trebs in my DMZ. America occupies the southern half of the continent, fittingly.
Do all civs get scouts?
Only expansionist civs get scouts. The incans are expansionist though.
Jesus, one of the last games i've slaved like 40 workers, most of them in ancient and medieval just by having a bunch of javs. That basically allowed me to not really build workers, saving some gpt and increasing growth
tldr I love javs
Here are very little ships before oil... It isnt realist
Regarding the War Elephant: You say that the "no resource requirement" is a small bonus, but actually it's a serious disadvantage! Because it means you can't use the "disconnect/reconnect strategy" for mass-producing them... So in my opinion, the War Elephant is weaker than the standard Knight. (And of course much much weaker than the Rider.) The extra HP doesn't mean much, if you can produce more than twice as many ordinary Knights via disconnect/reconnect than you can produce War Elephants. (And if you can combine disconnect/reconnect with Leonardo's Workshop, it becomes really insane...) Just take a look at the Civfanatics GOTM: many of the fastest Conquest/Domination wins have been achieved with disconnect/reconnect...
Regarding the Cossack: don't underestimate the "guaranteed upgrade to elite" that you have with them! All you need is a few barb camps (and an era-change barb uprising...) and you can make all your Cossacks elite, before actually attacking your enemy. That means more Armies, and Cossack Armies slice through anything like a hot knife through butter...
I would also rank the Berserk higher than you did: it's an overpowered unit, because the AI is completely defenseless against it, if you use it right. Plus it can be mass-upgraded from Archers. And if you combine it with the Great Lighthouse, your boats won't get attacked by the AI until they get Astronomy! You can do insane things with the Berserk, like this One City Challenge on Deity level, which was won by Conquest victory: forums.civfanatics.com/threads/occc1-one-city-conquest.491935/
Or this easy 650 AD Domination victory on Sid level in COTM127: forums.civfanatics.com/threads/cotm127-dalecarlia-sid-final-spoiler-game-submitted.606686/#post-14630691
Completely agree on the Mounted Warrior: hands-down the best unit in the game!
So my "Tier 1" units would be: Mounted Warrior, Berserk, Rider. Gallic Swordsman only "Tier 2", because it is weaker than the Mounted Warrior.
Cossack would be at least "Tier 2", while the War Elephant is only "Tier 4". The rest seems more or less right.
True, but IMO the upgrade cost from horse to knight is prohibitively expensive
Indians' war elephants are african elephants lol