shocking jaguar xk8 x100 shock mounts and spring clocking intrigue includes upgraded shock mounnts
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2024
- In this video we come to some conclusions about the correct position for front springtails. We see the state of my 2000 mile old Aftermarket Shock mounts and spring seats . And we take reciept of some upgraded Phobman shock mounts and seats.
If you are interested in the same spring and shock mount rubbers as I receive in this video, then contact Peter Hobman at this email address Phobman@Yahoo.com
I will do a separate video on fitting Peters mounts, and my experience with them as soon as time allows.
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So grateful you are doing these videos to help the whole community with figuring this long-term issue. Many thanks!
My pleasure!. Im enjoying myself.
That's really interesting John looking forward to the next part take care Andy Allen.
Thanks 👍
I'm SO glad to be able to learn from these videos BEFORE I get into this work I also need to do on my XKR. Thanks a million John!
Glad to help!
A great job of demonstrating the problem and the solution, thanks John.
Very welcome Peter
Great work John. I'm glad that the Hobman parts are looking like they'll do the job.
All of your conclusions stack up as far as I can see and I'm quietly confident that your proposed solution will do the job as well as further tightening up the handling (although I'm sure we're well into the realm of exponentially diminishing returns by now).
As ever, thanks for the great content and good luck buddy 👍
(BTW, the current Mrs B is asking when will we get some more puppy content and updates!)
Thanks Gerard. Let Tracy know that Gracie will be popping up more often now👍😁
Great detective work John! I'm leaning towards your last comment about how little pressure is applied to those donuts in the aftermarket units. I mentioned before that I swapped out my Uro style ones for Baxtors rebuilt units. I still have the aftermarket units and I'll dismantle one to see what sort of thickness the donuts are and how much pressure they're under. As an aside, I did easily recentre the aftermarket ones with a socket and breaker bar even while the full weight of the car was on the wheels. I think that confirms the blancmange condition of the donuts even after perhaps 500k. Looking forward to part 2
Thanks Phil. Yes the fact that you can reposition the the top of the damper proves there is just no grip between the sponge and the pressing
Great timing for me. I'm about to do the top mounts. Will be contacting Mr Phobman ASAP. Cheers from BC Canada.
Glad I could help
Wow! 31:23 When you showed the lack of compression! That’s shoddy short-cut engineering! They literally left out a major component of the assembly! Obviously on purpose. Great forensic engineering!
I eagerly await your autopsy of the “new” top-hat assembly.
Also, this is the first I have heard of the new refurb kit from California. I just might order it for my 2006 XKR, which seem rather harsh riding. Great price too.
Thanks for all your XK8 content. I often refer back to to when I finally get around to one of the many projects for the Jaaag.
Thanks for the kind words @tomfurrie2996
Our 2013 Xj had those crappy sponge rubber top cushions, and for over 10 years a squeaking noise inside from the dash area drove us crazy. Wish I found those neoprene cushions at the time I replaced mine.
Great intel @kdreger. I now know the XJ has a very similar setup👍
Peter tells me the thinner donut is used in the upper position of the Welsh shells. For the URO shells we use two thick donuts. It makes closing and riveting the shells more difficult. John, can you confirm that the OEM shells and the URO shells are the same depth, that will use the two thick donuts? Repeat, the Welsh shells use the thinner donut on top, thicker donut on bottom.
Hi John. Great video and very interesting. Like many of us I have seen plenty on line about top mounts wondering after replacement. The spring tail must come into play with this issue but after seeing how loosely those plates held those two doughnuts I'm thinking that they will allow the strut top to wonder regardless. I can see why those new bespoke ones may be the answer. Following with interest ☺👍
hello John. I too recently changed my top spring mounts for new after 23 years on my 1999 xk8. within 20 miles the pins were off centre and the nearside began knocking. I found that i could simply use a pry bar on the nut to re centre the assembly! this indicates that there is virtually no compression grip on the smaller yellow urethane doughnuts. i had the cars weight on the assembly at the time. i find it interesting that the spring tail may sort this but i suspect it was never intended to be located with accuracy rotationally. My parts were purchased from British Parts. they have now completed 30 miles and i am most displeased with the product. I do have a floor standing spring compressor which will simplify the rework necessary and will be buying the rebuild kit you have identified. Thanks for all your work John.
Thanks for this. I have the same issue. My garage did not want to use any alternative bushings and said it would be OK. I have alternative components from Baxtor in Australia. I will have to dismantle and fit these parts to the "new" shock mounts. Looking forward to your next video. I must admit that compressing the springs scares the s**t out of me!
Glad to help. You will be fine with the spring compressors. Those who have issues are generally those who dont know its dangerous.
Caution will be your friend👍🤞😁
John. The hardness or compressibility of rubber is calculated using the Shore strength calibration scale. You maybe able to find out the strength of the original parts to compare this with the parts you are using to replace them via the manufacturer .
I did mine back in October '22, genuine top mounts, new bilstein shocks, original springs. Made a note of the clocking / paint marks on the springs, and despite renewing everything, the spring wandered. All seems fine, and the mounts are fairing well (thankfully! ££), but yeah, the spring coil wandering did cause some concerns initially.
The paint marks are only there to identify the spring properties for assembly line selection per build sheet.
@@baxtor52 I did wonder, but I used them as a way of putting them back in the same way as they came out. Some say you need to clock, others say it makes no difference, a lot of conflicting information out there.
Good idea doing what you did anyway. Personally l think it's pointless but if it helps the owner sleep better it won't hurt. However unless some mysterious power is at work, the TOP of the spring can not possibly exert any lateral force to the damper, if any lateral force is being applied it can only be at the bottom spring seat where contact with the damper actually occurs.
Hi John great video, I didn't know all these details when I changed my front shocks. Unfortunately it is now too late. I won't change it anymore. Greetings from Germany.Udo, I will send you photos by email.
No worries Udo. Hopefully you will have no issues anyway🤞
Hi John,
We did meet briefly back at Gaydon but you were quite busy and it was jammed packed with fellow Jag/ car enthusiasts.
Update on the ongoing misfire water was seeping into the ignition coil cover and caused a short in my wiring. Had to change the ignition wiring harness and got some nice Japanese ignition coils hopefully with some extra reliability. Definitely need it with the car in mind 😂
The differential decided to break right before Christmas as I was leaving work and just had a fresh MOT and the RAC didn't come to my rescue as it wasn't registered with a MOT on their system so had to limp it home at 5mph. Literally live 5 miles from home so hearing all that banging and scraping has given me tinnitus 😂.
All good news now though as I have rebuilt the whole rear end with a Quaife differential, full poly bush, thicker anti roll bar and a set of AVO coilovers as my shocks were completely shot on all 4 corners.
Your car I would have gold with green pearlescent hints to compliment the green/bluey pearlescent and some nice gold wheels to finish her off. I've never seen your cars colour before and it is an absolute stunning motor in the flesh! But something out the factory it's really something.
We have a Facebook group "Jaguar XKR/ XJR owners" and everybody is welcome to join and post their videos and pictures of them and their lovely Jags. Doesn't have to be S/C and anyone can join who has passion for their cars.
Thanks again John with all your informative videos and keeping cars like Purdy and other people's pride and joys on the road!
I'm sure I would have been stuck a few times without your vids 😂
Thanks again all for the votes for this year's calender 💙
Mat
just joined your group. thanks Matt
I purchased Genuine Jaguar parts. Part# MJA2170BD The foam is Polyurethane (PUR). Which is a tough time tested material. I have yet to install them. I hope to do so in the near future. I want to thank you for all that you do.
You Friggin Rock!
Thanks Colin. Do let us know how you get on. Can I be so rude as to enquire how much you paid for a pair?
@ToTheGarage Hello John, l paid $198.90 USD each from Harper Jaguar in Knoxville, TN USA.
They are currently selling them for $234.81 USD.
@@colinmellin1325 thanks . To be fair, that is a good price for originals. They are getting harder to source though.
Well done👍
Hi John. Great video, and all very interesting. However, I think you answered your own question about the original location of the top end of the spring, in your Secrets of the XK8 Episode 40, when you gave us a guided tour of the front wheel well with the cover removed. The spring top end is clearly visible pointing away from the car.
By the way, I changed my front shock mounts a few months ago, and was advised by a friend, an automotive engineer, to make sure the spring was mounted with the top end pointing outwards. I have no idea where he got that information from, but he is Rolls-Royce trained.
This is fantastic intel @nigelmiller9521 and thanks so much for the back reference to my own video which of course i have never rewatched😔. But will now👍
When I changed my upper mounts (which appear to be the same make as yours) I also put in a new KYB upper shock bumper and bellows. The upper bumper fits into the bottom of the upper mount and would serve to keep the shock shaft centred in the upper mount. I couldn't see if you fitted an upper shock bumper because the bellows hides it. My upper shock is still positioned in the centre of the mount.
Hi. Yes i did fit a bumper but in fairness it was a used one. A new one will be used when I rebuild this for the 2nd time
Great diagnostic and incisive bit of sleuthing! I have just bought aftermarket spring tops from a source in U.K. and I am not a happy bunny. I dare not drive the car on the road while all the negative points you mention still exist. I haven’t dismantled the original ones yet but you can be sure I’ll do so tomorrow. Hundreds if not thousands of makes of vehicles get the simple suspension mounting right! Why are we jumping through hoops at every turn we take this bl**dy vehicle! It’s draining my willpower to exist but at least I know I’m in a pack of Jaguar hounds, all seeking nirvana! 🤷♂️🙏🏻😩😂😳
We will get there Mark. Because we, and our cats, are worth it!
Great detective work John or is it Sherlock
Just call me Hercule 👍
I would like some shock strut mounts please John
I wish you had posted a day earlier, as I have already ordered my OEM strut mounts and they will be here Monday. I will be very curious about the ones from Cali.
Sorry Craig. I need to pull my finger out😁
Hope you have a good experience with yours👍
Return them
The clocking of the spring is the reason that the factory springs have lines painted down them, this alignment should be replicated when fitting aftermarket ones.
I'm having these shocks put in right now so I'm not very hopefull. I will be buying some shcoks from Baxtor in Australia though to fit rebuilt OEM shocks so that will make them perfect.
I hear only good reports from those who have used baxtor or phobman mounts
@@ToTheGarage Yea, I'm going to see about ordering them from him once I get my car back. I need it to last about a year though with the URO shitty shock mounts though.
Fascinating videos, John, and the first time I have ever seen this effect being demonstrated.
My 97 XK8 has always had the plastic dome covers in place as it's still on the original shocks and springs. I don't really ever recall removing the covers to inspect the shock absorber tops but I will check whether mine are still centralised next time I'm in the garage.
Can you just confirm whether the original springs from the car were more ground and flattened off across the top compared to the new red springs which don't appear to have been ground flat at all? That might explain the greater distortion of the seating plate with the new springs. If required, you could always do a little grinding on the new springs and improve the seating position.
Richard
Hi Richard. The new ones and the old ones are the same. The last 2 inches or so, of the coil end is ground flat through to about half its thickness.
@@ToTheGarage Thanks John. In that case, we can rule that out as a reason for the distortion. As you say, the older plates are presumably more rigid than the replacements. It's great to see someone investigating this well-known issue in such a methodical way.
The foam that they use in the URO parts apparently compresses but doesn't return it just keeps getting thinner and thinner over time until the metal parts are in contact.
Could well be right. Mine were only on the car for a couple of months but they could have been on a shelf for years!
That loose lid will not be loose once fitted to car John, 3 x 8mm studs will see to that The problems with that mount run a lot deeper than that.
I don't think that is really the issue that John is pointing out. Obviously, the lid will tighten up once fitted to the car but what John is suggesting is that the looseness in the lid when it is not fitted suggests that either the doughnut material is too soft compared to the original or that it is too thin when compared to the original. Once of those potential factors might well encapsulate virtually the entire problem with the mount.
Richard
Agreed Richard, l manufacture components for these mounts in polyurethane and those yellow donuts weigh in at 30 grams to my 90 grams. No body to the material, they'd be better of using a sponge cake.
The bigger donuts will fix the wandering but it looks just like a copy of ones l got from a gent in Australia a year ago, not new
Just one thought. You changed the springs recently. Are the spring tails any different on the new springs than the old springs tails?
Mine were replaced last year and they have moved almost identically to yours.
Lets hope we have this conundrum finaly cracked David🤞 Spring tails out and full form doughnuts.
David, which way were your spring tails pointing, when you noticed that the shock tops have moved sideways?
@@MomchilNikolovPhoto I don’t know yet as my car is in storage for the winter, I’ve some work to do on it so I’m going to check then.