These have been exceedingly fascinating lectures. Very easy to follow. You have an intriguing oratory cadence and demeanor John. Much Thanks for all the dedication that went into delivering these lectures..
I speak Assyrian and read an write, we are the native ppl of Iraq. We are scattered around the world but we preserved the language still because it’s the language that our Lord spoke.
I love the mission. This should be the mission of everyone, every religious group, community, community outreach group and government. It's unfortunate that greed and corruption has infiltrated so many of these groups. I wish you all well. Bless Us All
I really like their mission, too! "To invite everyone into community... to abolish poverty and end needless suffering... to promote peace and justice...and to live life meaningfully together." If more groups took this on board, as their own missions, what a difference it would make.
I agree. I find inside our own circles is the best place. I do this by first placing myself in other's or a Jesus/Buddha. I see all my old holdings of fear and lack caused much pain. So I forgive myself when I act foolishly as I forgive other's. For most do not think about why they do what they do. Nor even control their thought's.
I've watched 1000's of hours of this stuff from various content providers. John is by far the clearest, most honest and transparent and most deliberate presenter by far. Thank you so much sir. I just still don't understand how someone this informed is a believer. But utter respect regardless.
If you are reading this, do understand how hypothetical all of this is. the . Indeed, the language question. Since the region had been colonized by Greek-speakers for three hundred years and the lingua franca was Hellenistic Greek, and also since Nazareth was very close to a Greek city, there is a chance that some of his disciples, maybe even his inner circle were Greek-speakers/bilingural. I think of the name Phillip, and then we have the story of Stephen in Acts to consider.
@@johnschuh8616 do understand that the authors of the gospels were not the actual disciples even if they spoke perfect greek. these authors were removed by decades. the gospels are attributed to them, they are anonymous. and even if they spoke perfect greek that doesn't mean they wrote or had the means/resources to afford to write and they sure as hell did not have the requisite education to write in the particular style the gospels were written in. i live in california and there's a lot of spanish spoken around me. i've taken spanish in highschool so i pick things up here and there. that doesn't mean i can write a masterpiece in spanish at a time when i can't afford the paper to write it on. also, the bible doesn't describe the disciples as having any such education or standing in the society. so, in fact, it's not hypothetical at all to conclude definitively that these accounts are not first hand nor could possibly be authored by anyone close to jesus. Acts is fiction through and through (not unlike Mark). what is hypothetical is trying to assert that there MIGHT have been Greek in the area, and that the disciples MIGHT have known greek, because of a RANDOM thing in ACTS as a clue and that there is a CHANCE they were speakers, and THEREFORE they were written by disciples. right?
hi, i am form italy, trying my best to understand you. anyway, what I understand it's very fascinating me.Thank you for you to share your deep knowledge
John you are a fabulous teacher. Just discovered Centre Pointe yesterday randomly. Brings me back to my religion teacher in high school, Westminster in Atlanta in the 1970s, Professor Yacoubian. Looking forward to more lectures and meditation programs. From my home in the mountains of Western North Carolina. God bless.
I sang the preamble to the Constitution along with you (fellow old dude I am!!!).... great presentation-- so happy to have found your channel in these uncertain times... I think that spiritual communities of authentic Christians are a key to surviving the coming decade. God bless :)
As a rabbi and Orthodox Jew, I find much to appreciate in your approach of integrating modern historical and literary methods and their coexisting with "emunah" (faith/loyalty/steadfastness). I have come to a similar path myself in how I relate to traditional Torah and later rabbinic sources and the living practice of Judaism. Thanks.
@Tovia's Kryptonite Paul's interesting. In many ways he was closer, I think, to the Jewish mainstream (or mainstreams) than many believe. For example, there is a dispute in Tosefta Sanhedrin about whether non Jews have a place in the World to Come. Rabbi Eliezer says no, they have to convert, which includes circumcision, Rabbi Yehoshua says yes, if they fulfill the Seven Noahide Laws. Meaning, they don't have to convert. Rabbi Yehoshua's position has certain become the Jewish (Orthodox) mainstream position. And in the circumcision dispute, Paul was basically saying like Rabbi Yehoshua, with some Christological stuff in addition. Though I don't think he or the early Christians believed he was Divine nor did he believe in the virgin birth; that was later. Even his "replacement theology" may have been less revolutionary than later construed, in that he said yes, the Jews have their direct connection to God, and Gentiles can now have theirs through Jesus. His belief in the immanence of the Messianic Age, like Jesus himself, was a primary feature of his outlook but by no means unique in that age and place.
@Tovia's Kryptonite I don't think so. They were more or less contemporaries and there is no evidence at all that any of the leading rabbis of that period were influenced by Paul. What I do think is that this was probably a dispute that went far back, with different schools of thought. It's just that Paul's view, in the notorious circumcision dispute in early Christianity, minus the need to go through Jesus, was not some bizarre outlier in the Jewish world of the time.
This and other Centre Place videos on the historicity of Jesus and Bible are simply excellent. The content is rich and easy to understand. What I am really amazed is how a Christian church would host such factual exploration of the Christianity without fearing that her congregation will lose their faith. I am interested to know how Christians can reconcile the historic Jesus and Jesus of faith as we have always been told that Bible is the Word of God or at least inspired Word of God which honestly I have had doubts about it for a while.
@@HistoryandReviews It's Tainted Canon Catholic Bible ROMAN Catholics!! That should be a red flag 🚩 WARNING ⚠️ PROCEED WITH CAUTION ⚠️ sadly not the Christians the refuse to come out of BABYLON BEAST SYSTEM ROME
I'm an atheist, and I love John Hamer's videos! His content is so engaging and interesting, and he has corrected me on a few things, which I am always very grateful for. Plus, when he's in front of a live audience I really admire his practice of allowing people to interject with a question at any time. Kudos :)
The graphics shown at 47:47 and onward are extremely valuable in showing the relationship between the 3 synoptic gospels. I've listed to 3 or 4 lectures on this topic by Bart Ehrman, but that graphic makes is much clearer. Thanks!
I have no dog in this fight, but regarding Luke being sourced from Matthew instead of Mark and Q, and your objection that why would the author of Luke leave all of Matthew's Markan material in order but rearrange what would be the Q material, doesn't the difference in content between Mark and Q answer that? That is, the Q material is just sayings, disconnected from context. There is no chronology to it. The Markan material is more biographical, which gives the author of Luke a motivation to keep the chronology consistent with Matthew. The "sayings" material can be inserted wherever Luke's author feels it best fits or where it best serves his purpose.
Before I start this, I’ll venture out to mention mi first thought on this title… Daniel sealed book hidden until the end of days hidden on mount Charax. Enter into the age of Aquarius m the man with the water pitcher, I will pour out my spirit (love truth) upon all flesh in those days.
According to Philip Jenkins, there are paralells and similarities with the hypothetic Q and what is regarded as the early Thomas. One striking feature is that both are free of elements later developed into Christian dogma (miracles, virgin-birth, crucifixion, resurrection, etc). The familar resemblances between Thomas and John might also suggest that the origins of John is far earlier than the written version(s).
“Q” is based on fragments of the synoptic Gospels. Given that the heart of them as well as John is the passion, why give priority to the sayings? Thomas is much less compelling, no more than the wisdom books.
@TheCinmatra Miraculous elements, which you point out as absent from Thomas, are very much present in John -- more so than the Synoptic Gospels, which present a purely human Jesus. Also, because Thomas is just a collection of sayings, there's no particular reason why they WOULD be present, whether the author believed them or not.
I was never impressed with Thomas's so called writings or books of "sayings". IF its not special or the holy word of god or powerful or beautiful, then it is junk and NOT IMPORTANT.
the reason for multiple verses or writings in several people's gospels that are the same or basically the same is because God promised that those things we are to know are always witnessed by two or more people, therefore we know that they are true and from our father God. that's why in the end, God sends two witnesses down to earth, as described in Revelation I believe...I could be wrong about the two witnesses being from Rev., however, I am exhausted and didn't look before I wrote this,..but if you know the scripture, you will know what I am talking about.
Singing DOES help to remember. 30 days hath September, April, June and November. All the rest have 31 except February… I learned that 60 years ago in school. Back when they taught us the three Rs. Oh yeah, and I DO use it every month.
I 😘 loved this. 😛👍👍👍 I've tried to learn after Bart Herman's books opened my mind. ❤️ We went to LHS at the same time. I didn't realize the books were by him! We had friends in common. Amazingly I was there when he met "Bruce" that started his journey.
My church friends insist that the four gospels were written by the Apostles. But, I thought these Apostles were long dead when these Greek books were written. In addition, most Apostles were illiterate and did not speak or write in Greek. What is true?
This was a superb synopsis (pardon the pun) of the canonical gospels. I was introduced to several new insights. For example, Luke writes of an urban locale, Matthew is concerned with royalty, and the sayings of Jesus speak of a rural locale and the poor who live there.
John, Luke, Mark and Matthew are not physical beings, each one represents each season... all is astrology. Ringo entered the scene quite sometime later😂🙏🏼💜🇨🇦
this man isn't a Christian, trying to tell others about the Christian relationship with Jesus but yet he isn't aborn again Christian and is not a child of God! do not listen to him if you are Christian!
Good question! I'M sensing the answer is yes. History has been written a specific way and the only GOOD reason for doing so, would be to "decieve the entire world". Regardless, LOVE is the final answer. It SEEMS we are in a "part of time" where we (humans) are being changed from "within" (MAYBE through everything our bodies absorb). Our ability to love, be compassionate, forgive appears to be "dying". People seem to thrive on lies, lust, etc.
Thank you for your work. Question: Is the existence of Q necessary to explain anything? If we take each gospel as edited by X Greek intellectual, can we not assume each simply included some existing texts and not others from a personal of available manuscript pieces,, or in some cases simply added new info, perhaps at the direction of some authority?
BTW, I really enjoy your recorded presentations. And a church that has a theology that squares with the realities of historical interpretation and reconstruction of sacred texts is very appealing to me.
There are two sides to every story. So the question comes down to was the book split in half and the Koran is the other side of the story? What is the great deception? Fascinating insights by our host.
I believe if it were edited by the same person it would be much more aligned. But later people revered the text too much to change them too much (obviously some scribes were okay with changing certain wordings).
@@troybradshaw8781 The koran was written about 500 years after the Bible, and used some of the OT/NT and had a dijin w/Mohammed add very different ideas, values, beliefs to the koran that are in stark contrast to the Bible.
Thanks! Very clear. Questions: Could Q have been transmitted orally? Oral transmission was not like the game of telephone in Semitic and mostly illiterate oral cultures . The entire book was memorized and passed on with permission. The changes you describe in rhymes relate to geographical isolation or lack of continuous communication. So the crucifixion and resurrection are later additions. Also the theological complexity of original sin, and Jesus as redeemer and dying for the sins of man appear to be later additions.
This is a fascinating analysis of the historical context of the gospel writings that that made it into the canon - particularly that they are anonymous, time and language shifted, and probably composite and embellished versions of Mark (plus maybe Q). Most certainly they are not the perfectly preserved literal words of God/Jesus. However, perhaps even more interesting is the philosophy (arising out of the response to the first question) that because of these complex uncertainties, Christian worship and faith should be more focussed and based on the spiritual practices, tradition and theology that has developed over time. To be frank, if I was a Christian based on faith alone, none of this would give me comfort that my belief was anything more than wishful thinking.
You’re absolutely right . I’ve always considered myself Christian but I’ve never even read the Bible. I’ve always based my religiousness on spirituality and being a good person and I’m happy I did that! The more I look into the actual historical elements of the religion and the texts, I definitely appreciate the history there, but I’m a lucky one because I don’t have my religion and my ego/personality entangled with the Bible and my perception of its veracity. Some of the people I see who are Christian and have the Bible be such a big part of there life cannot even fathom that some of the history to these things isn’t original or has been added to. The amount of denial and willingness to discredit phd scholars because of their ego and protection of their personal views it is sad to me. Seriously very very sad
Wow! You are the first Community of Christ member who has a channel and you are open to meditation and know more about some of the inner teachings. I am a 7th generation Community of Christ member, out family joined the Church before the schism & Brigham Young taking many people to Utah and rebaptizing original members on their way to Utah. My Great-Great-Great Grandfather (and his mother & brother) was baptized in Wales & moved to the US during the Schism & people from LDS ran into them and convinced them to go to Utah. After a number of years their he came to start questioning Brigham Young’s Teachings and they escaped and then found the RLDS church in Missouri & Iowa. Most Community of Christ priesthood & members I grew up & know know are not well educated in Religions & philosophy & history or religions.
I think John uses terms like "the Jews" to avoid reference to specific sects of Jewish people, but indeed at that time it already identified itself as a different faith.
Loved the detailed analysis of the Q source for the Gospels of Matthew & Luke. In this day & age of moneymaking from conspiracy theories, it begs the question of why the narrator or someone like him hasnt chosen to construct a separate Q text & present it as a missing Gospel. The Q content seemingly is matter of fact, & does not get into promoting the cult personality image of Jesus, instead promoting the agri-socialist wellbeing of the rural community.
Do we have reason to believe that Jesus spoke only in Aramaic? The evangelists tell us that he taught on the East Side of the River Jordan in places like Gadara and Caesarea Philippi. There would have been Aramaic speakers in those audiences but most of the people would have spoken the Greek of the Alexandrian times they were in. The Q teachings in Matthew and Luke are quite sophisticated.. Is there a reason to believe that professional workman would not have learned some of the Greek of that region?
53:48- Have we unnecessarily painted ourselves into a theological corner? Must we assume that there is a theorized reference source called Q, when it is equally plausible to accept that the additional "blue" material in Matthew and Luke could be nothing more mysterious than Matthew and Luke including the existing oral traditions about the life of Jesus, as well as Mark? IOW, the source is Mark, but with more oral traditions thrown in. The notion that we "must" assume a common reference source seems quite tenuous, when other prosaic explanations will suffice. It's a similar situation with UFOs- One person sees a light, and another person says "this proves the existence of UFOs". Prosaic explanations should be investigated first, before theorizing about other possibilities. I haven't watched the whole video yet, so my initial thoughts may change by the time I've finished.
Did you see the part where he put the different texts telling the same story side-by-side? I'm thinking the use of such similar wording does make a strong case for copying almost verbatim from an already existing text.
@@ObjectiveEthics Sure, that could be the case. We can't really know for sure, can we? I'm tranquil with that. For me, bottom line, is how do I apply the lessons of Unconditional Love in my daily life. The rest is interesting to study the evolution of the message and how humankind has interpreted it along the way.
In order to help schoolchildren remember the order of the Planets from the Sun, our Teacher told us this for us to remember more easily: My Very Enthusiastic Mother Just Served Us Nut Pudding.
Thanks for your hard work. I'm listening to this as a sort of podcast while I'm doing some of the more "automatic" parts of my job. Really interesting, certainly you are demolishing the stereptype taht Mormons are not interested in other traditions.
When you combine 80% of the world being illiterate at that point with lack of scholarly knowledge and constant manuscript copying I don't understand how you can validate anyting. The Jesus seminar try to do that in the 90s based on repetition but we all know what happens when you play the whispering game
In my research I have been made aware that the letter J was not even in our alphabet until the very late 1600's so if this is true the person we call Jesus could not have been known by that name, Y would have been used instead as the beginning letter of that person. Yah or Yahushua possibly?
@@jbrockhausen4761 not in a traditional way. I believe Jesus existed and was crucified but I dont believe he died to atone sins. This story is adaptation of Persian Mithraism that Paul brought from Tarsus and incorporated into his version of Christianity. The Bible is full of nonsense and fairy tales stories and also Yahweh is a deity of the desert of Palestine. People in the past used to fear the gods that lived in the mountains and valleys. It happens Yahweh is a volcano warrior god. I have many reasons to not be a Christian
what are you talking about? there are quite a few documents from early texts available to researchers and I was taught in seminary about the Q source . Maybe it was implied by other texts...
So much is mentioned of the "Historical Jesus" by scholars. There is one fundamental theme that seems to be over looked. Jesus was a fulfillment of the prophecy of the Messiah. He lived his life as to be consistent with that belief. Those who told the stories of his life saw it through their own personal experience. They repeated what to them was important to them personally. It depended if it saved them from the guilt of past sins, showed them a path forward to live their lives, or as a companion for those who walked alone in life. We are fortunate enough to have all of their experiences compiled in the gospels.
@@smitisan4984 That is not what I said. I said witnesses remember best what their wants and needs are. We only recall about 20% of events in an ideal situation. That which is important to us gets reinforced and is remembered best later. Just like yourself, I said 'personal experience' and you heard 'Jesus is mailable'. Perhaps that is a tell that you need Jesus to be flexible in your life even though Jesus said that he was the fulfilment of the law.
@@smitisan4984 You remind of the younger brother in Sound of Music. Incorrigible. You are just testing my patience. All language has limits based on which words are emphasized. Your school teachers must have loved your Devil's advocate approach.
So interesting... Is there a booklet that is called the "Gospel of Q" that scholars have come up with, with references to Matt & Luke so the reader can better see what parts of the Gospel Matt & Luke used?
I guess the question here is, where they sincere and passionate about what they really believed and were saying, sharing or writing about, or did they even care? was it just a story that they passsed on, or was it something they were willing to die for?
when mankind can stand before God with blood free hands./ the animals want to be blood free and domestic, but in a sense are waiting for man, they do not like being slaughtered.some have lay down,some have not.
@@mr.yellowstrat3352 it sucks that you’re so threatened by the concept of atheism, though I would understand why you might be. But isn't the concept of good people getting eternally punished worse for you? As empathetic human, that’s a worse concept for me to imagine.
@@Anarkitty420 Lol how old are you losers? Why would I be threatened or scared of atheism? I was atheist by any definition of the word for most of my life. Hahaha imagine being that offended over your DISBELIEFS. I understand fighting for what you believe in but you nerds are fighting for what you don't believe in. It's actually comical
Oral transmission is assumed simply because the oldest available scrolls are said to be dated 40 years or so after Jesus's death. It's also assumed that the writers were not first hand witnesses, if the writers were first hand witnesses than there is no "oral transmission "
Did it ever occur to anyone that Jesus is speaking to different groups of people in each Gospel? Luke is speaking to the bride of Christ. Mark is speaking to the sleeping church/Israel. Matthew is speaking to Judah, GOD’S people in the was, the is, and the will be to come.
Johnny, @ 52:53 you make a peremptory mention of the "minor agreements of Matthew and Luke against Mark". I think it would have been helpful if you had mentioned that there are over a HUNDRED cases where Luke and Matthew "edit" Mark in exactly the SAME WAY. This has led modern scholars like Goodacre to totally abandon the idea that there ever was a "Q".
I agree. I don't think "Q" is necessary. Dr Carrier makes this argument as well. I like John Hamer and I know he doesn't like Carrier because of the whole mythicism thing. Although I am not sure Hamer understands that Carrier doesn't argue that there was never a guy named Jesus. The argument is that the narrative is not based on a historical person. This is an important distinction.
Thanks for this brilliant presentation. I also think it's very probable that something like "Q" existed. Concerning eyewitnesses, what do you make of Luke's prologue, where he basically says that he has collected material from both eyewitnesses and those who have been "servants of the word from the beginning"? Could these "servants of the word" relate to what we now call Q?
I dont really agree with this person. Q is based on john 21:24,25. It was writen in hebrew. In fact Matthew is believed to have been originally in hebrew and was the first book written. Mark was is the first book written in Greek as was the rest of them. Luke was Matthews account but written in Greek. The difference between Matthew and Luke is Matthew is Joseph line of descent and Luke is Mary's line of descent. Plus Luke was a physician which is why he wrote about Elizabeth and Mary's pregnancy and had more detail about Jesus's life and work. So the lost Q gospel is Hebrew and may have been writen by John the Baptist. The knights templar were said to have it. Peace and agap'e.
@@gregoryrollins59 _"The difference between Matthew and Luke is Matthew is Joseph line of descent and Luke is Mary's line of descent."_ Can I get some scripture to establish the lineage of this statement?
@@AverageAmerican Mary's father Heli. Luke 3:23. In fact luke was a physician and his book reflects Mary's point of view. Matthew is Joseph's point of view until his death. Which there is no futher mention of him after coming back from Egypt. Luke most likely delivered Jesus and John. It explains why he knew about John leaping when Mary arrived. That would be something you'd tell ypur doctor about. Plus it showes life in the womb. So to put that in perspective, all those aborted babied will be resurrected and raised by someone. Imagine a woman who has had a couple of abortions and then changes her ways and follows Jesus, she will have babies in the kingdom of God to raise up. Peace and agap'e.
@New no doubt. New, you're so new. You, you're so new. And i never had this taste in my past. New, you're so new. Oh you're not old. And you're not familiar. Recently discovered and I'm learning about you. New, you're so new, you, you're so new. Hope you like this little song new. It's my way of saying you're welcome. Peace and agap'e.
I don't think the Game of Telephone analogy works because that game is designed to fail. In telephone, you're whispering in an ear (whispers are harder to comprehend than normal speech) and you're only allowed to say the sentence once. In oral tradition, you have a life time to get it right. The Australian Aborigine songs, after tens of thousands of years, still work. One can trek across the entire Australian desert from water hole to water hole relying solely on oral tradition. Tupia was able to direct Captain Cook find islands separated by thousands of miles based solely on Polynesian oral tradition even though, no one had made the corresponding trips in hundreds of years
the problem I see, is that when these gospels were written, the earliest times possible, they could not POSSIBLY be the real Matthew or Luke. We don't have the ORIGINAL docs of these first writings of Matthew and Luke. The people who wrote it were probably somebody else? Or Maybe Matthew and Luke lived to be very old aged people?
You spend time illustrating how there are no texts written by Jesus/Yeshua, but important to point out there exists NOT ONE scrap of text called the gospel of Q. Witnesses who walked with or experienced Yeshua/Jesus miracles with quotes by Yeshua/Jesus wrote about him.. Historically, there are many non spiritual ancient texts written about people long dead but we don’t question their existence. Long ago, scholars, prophets and leaders had “scribes” who documented everything. No cameras, but Scribes. Bottom line: Jesus is documented as saying FEW will find there way to heaven in(New Testament) Matthew 7:14, and in the Old Testament (not in dispute) written WITHIN the 10 commandments by the finger of God himself in Exodus 20:6 says THOUSANDS would be saved. With 7.9 BILLION on earth and 1/3 claiming Christuanity, THOUSANDS (less than a million) would be a FEW. Those TRUE believers in Yeshua/Jesus and who keep his commandments and who don’t reject a belief in him when faced with death (which will be required under the coming Noahide laws), will be saved. Ironically, this Q non existent gospel seems to be related to the false prophet Q posting online predicting future (planned) events. The Bible warns us about this too. More end times deception
why does there have to be a source that is "Q", that Matthew and Luke have to borrow from? yes, it is new material not from Mark, that is shared on common with Matthew and Luke, but not in matching order or timelines. But does that really imply, that they were not honest or drawing from their own memories, RATHER THAN "another source"? that is my only problem with this Theory. IT implies, that without this "Q" source, Luke and Matthew would NOT HAVE KNOWN anything about Christ and those days to even write anything about...??? ?
I feel like this gives people faith in a historical Christ. Indeed the world is familiar in all religions with a mystical great teacher or "Enlightened Master" etc. Indeed when these appear followers expound upon their life and the deeds they accomplished as well as mix metaphor, allegory and confuse the two (some think Buddha popped out the side of his mother etc). Assuming Yahushua was the incarnation of "The All" into a man, even the most complete manifestation (say the pinnacle of man/all). The world is familiar with disciples communicating in dream and vision and being taught by such even while living and in death. Considering all this many can have a more concrete faith in a historical Yahushua (Jesus) in a new way. Even if they believe resurrection is allegorical (ie a new body).
There are two sides to every story, for me I question if the book was spit in half and is the Koran the other side of the story? Interesting insights by our host.
many scholars think mtthw and Revelation both written originally in hebrew Q tho seems to reflect v early xty and that xty is Galilean and different from the gospels...the story of the samaritan woman in john may reflect an early intended audience
No. They were not written in Hebrew first. They were written in Gieze language. Gieze is ancient Ethiopia writings. Jesus’s disciples were Ethiopians. Mother Mary’s parents homeland is also Ethiopia. Their monetary still stands in Ethiopia today. According to ancient Ethiopian literature, Gieze is the first language in the world with complete grammar based on mathematics. Gieze is still used today. 🙏🙏🙏from Ethiopia
If modernist science isn't capable to explain the internal coherence and complementary nature of the four gospels, then a scientist must say: "hypotheses non fingo". We have invented an unknown, unseen, not even and nowhere heard manuscript Q. Is there a single source in the antiquity talking on it? so what we are talking about? Thanks for your video explanation.
Maybe it’s not documented because it’s not meant for everyone. The people in charge aren’t allowing it or providing it. Modern science is evil - for now
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
These have been exceedingly fascinating lectures. Very easy to follow. You have an intriguing oratory cadence and demeanor John. Much Thanks for all the dedication that went into delivering these lectures..
Superb. A credit to your calling.
Thx as always
Lecture doesn’t start until 8 minutes in
Thanks. I owe you 7.5 minutes.
Thanks
THANK YOU!!
Good call!
Thank you
I speak Assyrian and read an write, we are the native ppl of Iraq. We are scattered around the world but we preserved the language still because it’s the language that our Lord spoke.
I love the mission. This should be the mission of everyone, every religious group, community, community outreach group and government. It's unfortunate that greed and corruption has infiltrated so many of these groups. I wish you all well. Bless Us All
Bollocks.
@@buggeringfool7179? What about this is bollocks?
I really like their mission, too! "To invite everyone into community... to abolish poverty and end needless suffering... to promote peace and justice...and to live life meaningfully together." If more groups took this on board, as their own missions, what a difference it would make.
I agree. I find inside our own circles is the best place. I do this by first placing myself in other's or a Jesus/Buddha. I see all my old holdings of fear and lack caused much pain. So I forgive myself when I act foolishly as I forgive other's. For most do not think about why they do what they do. Nor even control their thought's.
I've watched 1000's of hours of this stuff from various content providers. John is by far the clearest, most honest and transparent and most deliberate presenter by far. Thank you so much sir. I just still don't understand how someone this informed is a believer. But utter respect regardless.
If you are reading this, do understand how hypothetical all of this is. the . Indeed, the language question. Since the region had been colonized by Greek-speakers for three hundred years and the lingua franca was Hellenistic Greek, and also since Nazareth was very close to a Greek city, there is a chance that some of his disciples, maybe even his inner circle were Greek-speakers/bilingural. I think of the name Phillip, and then we have the story of Stephen in Acts to consider.
@@johnschuh8616 do understand that the authors of the gospels were not the actual disciples even if they spoke perfect greek. these authors were removed by decades. the gospels are attributed to them, they are anonymous. and even if they spoke perfect greek that doesn't mean they wrote or had the means/resources to afford to write and they sure as hell did not have the requisite education to write in the particular style the gospels were written in.
i live in california and there's a lot of spanish spoken around me. i've taken spanish in highschool so i pick things up here and there. that doesn't mean i can write a masterpiece in spanish at a time when i can't afford the paper to write it on. also, the bible doesn't describe the disciples as having any such education or standing in the society.
so, in fact, it's not hypothetical at all to conclude definitively that these accounts are not first hand nor could possibly be authored by anyone close to jesus. Acts is fiction through and through (not unlike Mark). what is hypothetical is trying to assert that there MIGHT have been Greek in the area, and that the disciples MIGHT have known greek, because of a RANDOM thing in ACTS as a clue and that there is a CHANCE they were speakers, and THEREFORE they were written by disciples.
right?
hi, i am form italy, trying my best to understand you. anyway, what I understand it's very fascinating me.Thank you for you to share your deep knowledge
If you can. Find Zen Garcia and Rob Skiba. On UA-cam. They are Bible teachers... I love them. They are true Bible teachers. With no
Hello, to you from Italy. Alway’s wanted to visit the Country Side, of your part of the World. If you are here in the States, “WELCOME”!
I hope your retaining it haha! English is my first language and i'm still struggling to follow
@@CowboyGaming99 :-) I use automatic English subtitle
John you are a fabulous teacher. Just discovered Centre Pointe yesterday randomly. Brings me back to my religion teacher in high school, Westminster in Atlanta in the 1970s, Professor Yacoubian. Looking forward to more lectures and meditation programs. From my home in the mountains of Western North Carolina. God bless.
I sang the preamble to the Constitution along with you (fellow old dude I am!!!).... great presentation-- so happy to have found your channel in these uncertain times... I think that spiritual communities of authentic Christians are a key to surviving the coming decade. God bless :)
I have the tee-shirt for school house rock. Got it off Amazon.
Calling yourself an old dude means I'm beyond old since I remember hearing my younger brothers sing that song and wondered where they got it.
As soon as you broke out singing melt my heart! That was adorable surprise. Awesome
As a rabbi and Orthodox Jew, I find much to appreciate in your approach of integrating modern historical and literary methods and their coexisting with "emunah" (faith/loyalty/steadfastness). I have come to a similar path myself in how I relate to traditional Torah and later rabbinic sources and the living practice of Judaism. Thanks.
🕊💫🤍💫🕊
@Tovia's Kryptonite Paul's interesting. In many ways he was closer, I think, to the Jewish mainstream (or mainstreams) than many believe. For example, there is a dispute in Tosefta Sanhedrin about whether non Jews have a place in the World to Come. Rabbi Eliezer says no, they have to convert, which includes circumcision, Rabbi Yehoshua says yes, if they fulfill the Seven Noahide Laws. Meaning, they don't have to convert. Rabbi Yehoshua's position has certain become the Jewish (Orthodox) mainstream position. And in the circumcision dispute, Paul was basically saying like Rabbi Yehoshua, with some Christological stuff in addition. Though I don't think he or the early Christians believed he was Divine nor did he believe in the virgin birth; that was later. Even his "replacement theology" may have been less revolutionary than later construed, in that he said yes, the Jews have their direct connection to God, and Gentiles can now have theirs through Jesus. His belief in the immanence of the Messianic Age, like Jesus himself, was a primary feature of his outlook but by no means unique in that age and place.
@Tovia's Kryptonite I don't think so. They were more or less contemporaries and there is no evidence at all that any of the leading rabbis of that period were influenced by Paul. What I do think is that this was probably a dispute that went far back, with different schools of thought. It's just that Paul's view, in the notorious circumcision dispute in early Christianity, minus the need to go through Jesus, was not some bizarre outlier in the Jewish world of the time.
What you think of Gilgul?
What makes you an " Orthodox Jew"?
54:00 For I say unto ye, he that bringeth forth interlocking pie charts shall be first in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Thank you for sharing this with all of us. GOD BLESS YOU AND ALL.
What a scholar presentation. Thank you very much.
There was a lot of hard work put into that lecture - I knew of Q source but just learnt a lot more about it - thanks 😊
This and other Centre Place videos on the historicity of Jesus and Bible are simply excellent. The content is rich and easy to understand. What I am really amazed is how a Christian church would host such factual exploration of the Christianity without fearing that her congregation will lose their faith. I am interested to know how Christians can reconcile the historic Jesus and Jesus of faith as we have always been told that Bible is the Word of God or at least inspired Word of God which honestly I have had doubts about it for a while.
The bible is 100% flawed
@@HistoryandReviews It's Tainted Canon Catholic Bible ROMAN Catholics!! That should be a red flag 🚩 WARNING ⚠️ PROCEED WITH CAUTION ⚠️ sadly not the Christians the refuse to come out of BABYLON BEAST SYSTEM ROME
I'm an atheist, and I love John Hamer's videos! His content is so engaging and interesting, and he has corrected me on a few things, which I am always very grateful for. Plus, when he's in front of a live audience I really admire his practice of allowing people to interject with a question at any time. Kudos :)
The graphics shown at 47:47 and onward are extremely valuable in showing the relationship between the 3 synoptic gospels. I've listed to 3 or 4 lectures on this topic by Bart Ehrman, but that graphic makes is much clearer. Thanks!
I have no dog in this fight, but regarding Luke being sourced from Matthew instead of Mark and Q, and your objection that why would the author of Luke leave all of Matthew's Markan material in order but rearrange what would be the Q material, doesn't the difference in content between Mark and Q answer that? That is, the Q material is just sayings, disconnected from context. There is no chronology to it. The Markan material is more biographical, which gives the author of Luke a motivation to keep the chronology consistent with Matthew. The "sayings" material can be inserted wherever Luke's author feels it best fits or where it best serves his purpose.
Before I start this, I’ll venture out to mention mi first thought on this title… Daniel sealed book hidden until the end of days hidden on mount Charax. Enter into the age of Aquarius m the man with the water pitcher, I will pour out my spirit (love truth) upon all flesh in those days.
Nice hair. :)
@@timstarkes173 thank you…it’s has natural curl too. I am blessed. You look “Viking” also.
Yes but I believe the knowledge is sealed within as it hit me like a ton of bricks without warning
😆
Excellent talk...well done! Thanks! 😊
According to Philip Jenkins, there are paralells and similarities with the hypothetic Q and what is regarded as the early Thomas. One striking feature is that both are free of elements later developed into Christian dogma (miracles, virgin-birth, crucifixion, resurrection, etc). The familar resemblances between Thomas and John might also suggest that the origins of John is far earlier than the written version(s).
The fact is there is no empirical evidence that it ever existed.
“Q” is based on fragments of the synoptic Gospels. Given that the heart of them as well as John is the passion, why give priority to the sayings? Thomas is much less compelling, no more than the wisdom books.
@TheCinmatra Miraculous elements, which you point out as absent from Thomas, are very much present in John -- more so than the Synoptic Gospels, which present a purely human Jesus. Also, because Thomas is just a collection of sayings, there's no particular reason why they WOULD be present, whether the author believed them or not.
I was never impressed with Thomas's so called writings or books of "sayings". IF its not special or the holy word of god or powerful or beautiful, then it is junk and NOT IMPORTANT.
the reason for multiple verses or writings in several people's gospels that are the same or basically the same is because God promised that those things we are to know are always witnessed by two or more people, therefore we know that they are true and from our father God. that's why in the end, God sends two witnesses down to earth, as described in Revelation I believe...I could be wrong about the two witnesses being from Rev., however, I am exhausted and didn't look before I wrote this,..but if you know the scripture, you will know what I am talking about.
Very informative. Thank you for sharing your scholarship.
Singing DOES help to remember. 30 days hath September, April, June and November. All the rest have 31 except February… I learned that 60 years ago in school. Back when they taught us the three Rs.
Oh yeah, and I DO use it every month.
Wait til we go back to the Julian calender!
Conjunction junction, what's my function was my favorite Schoolhouse Rock jingle.
@@5thribroarn304 both were classics👏👍😂
Yes, I literally had a school jingle randomly pop in my head that named helping verbs. I had forgotten all about it till then lol
I 😘 loved this. 😛👍👍👍 I've tried to learn after Bart Herman's books opened my mind. ❤️ We went to LHS at the same time. I didn't realize the books were by him! We had friends in common. Amazingly I was there when he met "Bruce" that started his journey.
Ehrman not Herman, spell check
Wow, I must commend you for doing your own research. I have been working on the same thing using different resources. Reading Greek is most important.
Amazing content, very well presented. Thank you.
Awesome presentation. Thanks!!
My church friends insist that the four gospels were written by the Apostles. But, I thought these Apostles were long dead when these Greek books were written. In addition, most Apostles were illiterate and did not speak or write in Greek. What is true?
So well taught. Thank you!
Ps love these lectures , ❤ great work
This was a superb synopsis (pardon the pun) of the canonical gospels. I was introduced to several new insights. For example, Luke writes of an urban locale, Matthew is concerned with royalty, and the sayings of Jesus speak of a rural locale and the poor who live there.
I'm sorry forgive me I should of not posted it was hard to concentrate thank you for share. I'm sorry
John, Luke, Mark and Matthew are not physical beings, each one represents each season... all is astrology. Ringo entered the scene quite sometime later😂🙏🏼💜🇨🇦
Put that way makes me wonder if Mark is written for the poor, Luke for the middle class, and Matthew for the rich.
Thank you all for stepping up seeking truth, I was told the the gospels out of order, John being the first , do you have a study on John ?
Great, new and very interesting perspective on our Christian tradition!
this man isn't a Christian, trying to tell others about the Christian relationship with Jesus but yet he isn't aborn again Christian and is not a child of God! do not listen to him if you are Christian!
@@repentANDobey just listening to attacks on the Christian faith is important in Oder to refute it
@@repentANDobey ...Q.... Question everything. We know no eye witnesses and were not actually "there". Ignorance is Bliss... Knowledge gives knowing.
Great presentation. I would love to know the material that they both decided to delete.
Hello from me Craig Turner of hull the United Kingdom. Good contents
Fascinating topic.
If we were in that “little while” referenced in revelation 20:3, would we know?
Good question! I'M sensing the answer is yes.
History has been written a specific way and the only GOOD reason for doing so, would be to "decieve the entire world".
Regardless, LOVE is the final answer.
It SEEMS we are in a "part of time" where we (humans) are being changed from "within" (MAYBE through everything our bodies absorb). Our ability to love, be compassionate, forgive appears to be "dying". People seem to thrive on lies, lust, etc.
Thank you for your work. Question: Is the existence of Q necessary to explain anything? If we take each gospel as edited by X Greek intellectual, can we not assume each simply included some existing texts and not others from a personal of available manuscript pieces,, or in some cases simply added new info, perhaps at the direction of some authority?
BTW, I really enjoy your recorded presentations. And a church that has a theology that squares with the realities of historical interpretation and reconstruction of sacred texts is very appealing to me.
There are two sides to every story. So the question comes down to was the book split in half and the Koran is the other side of the story? What is the great deception? Fascinating insights by our host.
I believe if it were edited by the same person it would be much more aligned. But later people revered the text too much to change them too much (obviously some scribes were okay with changing certain wordings).
@@troybradshaw8781 The koran was written about 500 years after the Bible, and used some of the OT/NT and had a dijin w/Mohammed add very different ideas, values, beliefs to the koran that are in stark contrast to the Bible.
Thanks!
Very clear.
Questions:
Could Q have been transmitted orally?
Oral transmission was not like the game of telephone in Semitic and mostly illiterate oral cultures . The entire book was memorized and passed on with permission.
The changes you describe in rhymes relate to geographical isolation or lack of continuous communication.
So the crucifixion and resurrection are later additions.
Also the theological complexity of original sin, and Jesus as redeemer and dying for the sins of man appear to be later additions.
This is a fascinating analysis of the historical context of the gospel writings that that made it into the canon - particularly that they are anonymous, time and language shifted, and probably composite and embellished versions of Mark (plus maybe Q). Most certainly they are not the perfectly preserved literal words of God/Jesus. However, perhaps even more interesting is the philosophy (arising out of the response to the first question) that because of these complex uncertainties, Christian worship and faith should be more focussed and based on the spiritual practices, tradition and theology that has developed over time. To be frank, if I was a Christian based on faith alone, none of this would give me comfort that my belief was anything more than wishful thinking.
You’re absolutely right . I’ve always considered myself Christian but I’ve never even read the Bible. I’ve always based my religiousness on spirituality and being a good person and I’m happy I did that! The more I look into the actual historical elements of the religion and the texts, I definitely appreciate the history there, but I’m a lucky one because I don’t have my religion and my ego/personality entangled with the Bible and my perception of its veracity. Some of the people I see who are Christian and have the Bible be such a big part of there life cannot even fathom that some of the history to these things isn’t original or has been added to. The amount of denial and willingness to discredit phd scholars because of their ego and protection of their personal views it is sad to me. Seriously very very sad
What's with the pedo symbolism at the 4:00 mark?
It's also his logo ... 🤮
Was "Q" the Essene's spoken version? Never written down? Something connects there.
isn't it more the hidden Gospel of Q it was never lost but hidden form the people so they would know the true story and truth.
Not really it was pretty open you just had to know how to read in Hebrew and Aramaic though
Book of Thomas. Jesus Hidden in the book of Esther. And the book of Luke Q
Q= 17th book of the bible ( hense the massive movement !
I found this VERY INTERESTING!! I wish you had more information about the Gospel of Q 😞🙏🙏
You can buy the gospel of Q and read it
Keep digging!.... Seek TRUTH....Q sent me!💛🙏
Trippy Huh?!
Where We Go 1 We Go All.
Maybe Q is within us to connect the dots and figure out.
Why would I carry a threat of eternal torture for most of mankind inside me? I am not that kind of awful person, you know.
Wow! You are the first Community of Christ member who has a channel and you are open to meditation and know more about some of the inner teachings.
I am a 7th generation Community of Christ member, out family joined the Church before the schism & Brigham Young taking many people to Utah and rebaptizing original members on their way to Utah.
My Great-Great-Great Grandfather (and his mother & brother) was baptized in Wales & moved to the US during the Schism & people from LDS ran into them and convinced them to go to Utah. After a number of years their he came to start questioning Brigham Young’s Teachings and they escaped and then found the RLDS church in Missouri & Iowa.
Most Community of Christ priesthood & members I grew up & know know are not well educated in Religions & philosophy & history or religions.
FYI, the Preamble Song has a rather important omission, so if you're using it to teach people...
Wow I remember when schoolhouse rock came out, I thought it was cute but you are proof that it works! Beautiful.
You are an excellent teacher
Informative. Thank you.
30 minutes in he still has not explained what Q is or the point of the video.
Me too and I'm 40min in but it's a lot of backstory to how it could have happened
Little John Jr.
I think John uses terms like "the Jews" to avoid reference to specific sects of Jewish people, but indeed at that time it already identified itself as a different faith.
Loved the detailed analysis of the Q source for the Gospels of Matthew & Luke. In this day & age of moneymaking from conspiracy theories, it begs the question of why the narrator or someone like him hasnt chosen to construct a separate Q text & present it as a missing Gospel.
The Q content seemingly is matter of fact, & does not get into promoting the cult personality image of Jesus, instead promoting the agri-socialist wellbeing of the rural community.
The book of John was found in the Nag Hammadi library.
Do we have reason to believe that Jesus spoke only in Aramaic? The evangelists tell us that he taught on the East Side of the River Jordan in places like Gadara and Caesarea Philippi. There would have been Aramaic speakers in those audiences but most of the people would have spoken the Greek of the Alexandrian times they were in.
The Q teachings in Matthew and Luke are quite sophisticated.. Is there a reason to believe that professional workman would not have learned some of the Greek of that region?
53:48- Have we unnecessarily painted ourselves into a theological corner? Must we assume that there is a theorized reference source called Q, when it is equally plausible to accept that the additional "blue" material in Matthew and Luke could be nothing more mysterious than Matthew and Luke including the existing oral traditions about the life of Jesus, as well as Mark? IOW, the source is Mark, but with more oral traditions thrown in. The notion that we "must" assume a common reference source seems quite tenuous, when other prosaic explanations will suffice.
It's a similar situation with UFOs- One person sees a light, and another person says "this proves the existence of UFOs". Prosaic explanations should be investigated first, before theorizing about other possibilities.
I haven't watched the whole video yet, so my initial thoughts may change by the time I've finished.
wouldnt the oral tradition be the common reference if you were correct?
Did you see the part where he put the different texts telling the same story side-by-side? I'm thinking the use of such similar wording does make a strong case for copying almost verbatim from an already existing text.
@@glenn-younger But there is no reason that we can't assume Luke is copying Matthew and Mark. We don't need Q.
I don't personally see why we need a "Q" text. I agree with Dr Carrier on this one.
@@ObjectiveEthics Sure, that could be the case. We can't really know for sure, can we? I'm tranquil with that. For me, bottom line, is how do I apply the lessons of Unconditional Love in my daily life. The rest is interesting to study the evolution of the message and how humankind has interpreted it along the way.
Looking for these Truths that are coming out!
God bless!
('Cows in the meadow...We all jump up' is a parallelism, added to make it into a schoolyard game, far removed from its origin among adults)
In order to help schoolchildren remember the order of the Planets from the Sun, our Teacher told us this for us to remember more easily:
My Very Enthusiastic Mother Just Served Us Nut Pudding.
Thanks for your hard work. I'm listening to this as a sort of podcast while I'm doing some of the more "automatic" parts of my job. Really interesting, certainly you are demolishing the stereptype taht Mormons are not interested in other traditions.
When you combine 80% of the world being illiterate at that point with lack of scholarly knowledge and constant manuscript copying I don't understand how you can validate anyting. The Jesus seminar try to do that in the 90s based on repetition but we all know what happens when you play the whispering game
In my research I have been made aware that the letter J was not even in our alphabet until the very late 1600's so if this is true the person we call Jesus could not have been known by that name, Y would have been used instead as the beginning letter of that person. Yah or Yahushua possibly?
I love this channel :) although I am no longer a Christian I still a follower of Jesus as taught in the UB
why are u no longer Christian?
@@jbrockhausen4761 not in a traditional way. I believe Jesus existed and was crucified but I dont believe he died to atone sins. This story is adaptation of Persian Mithraism that Paul brought from Tarsus and incorporated into his version of Christianity. The Bible is full of nonsense and fairy tales stories and also Yahweh is a deity of the desert of Palestine. People in the past used to fear the gods that lived in the mountains and valleys. It happens Yahweh is a volcano warrior god. I have many reasons to not be a Christian
@@ketsune23 your opinion is about to change
'every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ'
@@jbrockhausen4761 huh? what a ridiculous comment full of superstition
Read the Quran. You’ll find the true Jesus.
Apparently, the vatitcan library is open to all now...??.
what are you talking about? there are quite a few documents from early texts available to researchers and I was taught in seminary about the Q source . Maybe it was implied by other texts...
@@dorothyross9392 Pardon?
thank you for sharing this. I finally read the gospel of Tomas because of centerplace. I hope someone finds the gospel of Q as well.
Q is not real
Thank you for your research 🙏
So much is mentioned of the "Historical Jesus" by scholars. There is one fundamental theme that seems to be over looked. Jesus was a fulfillment of the prophecy of the Messiah. He lived his life as to be consistent with that belief. Those who told the stories of his life saw it through their own personal experience. They repeated what to them was important to them personally. It depended if it saved them from the guilt of past sins, showed them a path forward to live their lives, or as a companion for those who walked alone in life. We are fortunate enough to have all of their experiences compiled in the gospels.
So Jesus is whoever you want him to be? Good to know.
@@smitisan4984 That is not what I said. I said witnesses remember best what their wants and needs are. We only recall about 20% of events in an ideal situation. That which is important to us gets reinforced and is remembered best later. Just like yourself, I said 'personal experience' and you heard 'Jesus is mailable'. Perhaps that is a tell that you need Jesus to be flexible in your life even though Jesus said that he was the fulfilment of the law.
@@stevelenores5637 So jesus is whoever these supposed "witnesses" want him to be? Well allrighty then.
@@smitisan4984 You remind of the younger brother in Sound of Music. Incorrigible. You are just testing my patience. All language has limits based on which words are emphasized. Your school teachers must have loved your Devil's advocate approach.
@@stevelenores5637 Yeah yeah sure sure. Ignoring you now.
In the book of Matthew 18 the reference section of my Bible states this is a Q saying. I’m just curious about this.
Yes, they used Q as a reference.
How could Matthew us Q as a reference ?
So interesting... Is there a booklet that is called the "Gospel of Q" that scholars have come up with, with references to Matt & Luke so the reader can better see what parts of the Gospel Matt & Luke used?
I guess the question here is, where they sincere and passionate about what they really believed and were saying, sharing or writing about, or did they even care? was it just a story that they passsed on, or was it something they were willing to die for?
The lords prayer states but when?/ men shall bend their swords into plowshares / again when?/ Have lambs already lay down with the Lion?
when mankind can stand before God with blood free hands./ the animals want to be blood free and domestic, but in a sense are waiting for man, they do not like being slaughtered.some have lay down,some have not.
Watched several of his videos. Never thought he was a believer. 👀 As long as the info is rooted in facts I'm down!!
Atheism is for morons
@@mr.yellowstrat3352 Name-calling often relates to persons with little information of their own.
@@communityofchristsanantonio No it doesn't Confucius
@@mr.yellowstrat3352 it sucks that you’re so threatened by the concept of atheism, though I would understand why you might be. But isn't the concept of good people getting eternally punished worse for you?
As empathetic human, that’s a worse concept for me to imagine.
@@Anarkitty420 Lol how old are you losers? Why would I be threatened or scared of atheism? I was atheist by any definition of the word for most of my life. Hahaha imagine being that offended over your DISBELIEFS. I understand fighting for what you believe in but you nerds are fighting for what you don't believe in. It's actually comical
Oral transmission is assumed simply because the oldest available scrolls are said to be dated 40 years or so after Jesus's death. It's also assumed that the writers were not first hand witnesses, if the writers were first hand witnesses than there is no "oral transmission "
Here’s the truth: It is all made up and ripoffs of Greeco Roman plays
@@HistoryandReviews that's brilliant
Did it ever occur to anyone that Jesus is speaking to different groups of people in each Gospel? Luke is speaking to the bride of Christ. Mark is speaking to the sleeping church/Israel. Matthew is speaking to Judah, GOD’S people in the was, the is, and the will be to come.
Why is there a difference between the Synoptic Jesus and the Johannine Jesus?
Each gospel wanted to eliminate the others. The fourth gospel wanted to eliminate the other 3 entirely
This is great information .
Where can we find the lost book of Q?
Earned my subscribe.
Johnny, @ 52:53 you make a peremptory mention of the "minor agreements of Matthew and Luke against Mark". I think it would have been helpful if you had mentioned that there are over a HUNDRED cases where Luke and Matthew "edit" Mark in exactly the SAME WAY.
This has led modern scholars like Goodacre to totally abandon the idea that there ever was a "Q".
I agree. I don't think "Q" is necessary. Dr Carrier makes this argument as well. I like John Hamer and I know he doesn't like Carrier because of the whole mythicism thing. Although I am not sure Hamer understands that Carrier doesn't argue that there was never a guy named Jesus. The argument is that the narrative is not based on a historical person. This is an important distinction.
READ THE JESUS STRAND part one and two
I watched it from Telegram...-48 channel
Thanks for this brilliant presentation. I also think it's very probable that something like "Q" existed. Concerning eyewitnesses, what do you make of Luke's prologue, where he basically says that he has collected material from both eyewitnesses and those who have been "servants of the word from the beginning"? Could these "servants of the word" relate to what we now call Q?
I dont really agree with this person. Q is based on john 21:24,25. It was writen in hebrew. In fact Matthew is believed to have been originally in hebrew and was the first book written. Mark was is the first book written in Greek as was the rest of them. Luke was Matthews account but written in Greek. The difference between Matthew and Luke is Matthew is Joseph line of descent and Luke is Mary's line of descent. Plus Luke was a physician which is why he wrote about Elizabeth and Mary's pregnancy and had more detail about Jesus's life and work. So the lost Q gospel is Hebrew and may have been writen by John the Baptist. The knights templar were said to have it.
Peace and agap'e.
Q stands for quelle.
Which means “source” in German.
@@gregoryrollins59 _"The difference between Matthew and Luke is Matthew is Joseph line of descent and Luke is Mary's line of descent."_
Can I get some scripture to establish the lineage of this statement?
@@AverageAmerican Mary's father Heli. Luke 3:23. In fact luke was a physician and his book reflects Mary's point of view. Matthew is Joseph's point of view until his death. Which there is no futher mention of him after coming back from Egypt. Luke most likely delivered Jesus and John. It explains why he knew about John leaping when Mary arrived. That would be something you'd tell ypur doctor about. Plus it showes life in the womb. So to put that in perspective, all those aborted babied will be resurrected and raised by someone. Imagine a woman who has had a couple of abortions and then changes her ways and follows Jesus, she will have babies in the kingdom of God to raise up.
Peace and agap'e.
@New no doubt. New, you're so new. You, you're so new. And i never had this taste in my past. New, you're so new. Oh you're not old. And you're not familiar. Recently discovered and I'm learning about you.
New, you're so new, you, you're so new.
Hope you like this little song new. It's my way of saying you're welcome.
Peace and agap'e.
I don't think the Game of Telephone analogy works because that game is designed to fail.
In telephone, you're whispering in an ear (whispers are harder to comprehend than normal speech) and you're only allowed to say the sentence once.
In oral tradition, you have a life time to get it right.
The Australian Aborigine songs, after tens of thousands of years, still work. One can trek across the entire Australian desert from water hole to water hole relying solely on oral tradition.
Tupia was able to direct Captain Cook find islands separated by thousands of miles based solely on Polynesian oral tradition even though, no one had made the corresponding trips in hundreds of years
This is such a great presentation, thanks for making this video! Can you point me to any books where I could learn more about the Q theory?
There is a book called the lost Gospel of Q, on Amazon.
Also a book called " The book of Quelle."
the problem I see, is that when these gospels were written, the earliest times possible, they could not POSSIBLY be the real Matthew or Luke. We don't have the ORIGINAL docs of these first writings of Matthew and Luke. The people who wrote it were probably somebody else? Or Maybe Matthew and Luke lived to be very old aged people?
I guess I need to see your videos, "which sayings of Jesus are authentic?"
You spend time illustrating how there are no texts written by Jesus/Yeshua, but important to point out there exists NOT ONE scrap of text called the gospel of Q. Witnesses who walked with or experienced Yeshua/Jesus miracles with quotes by Yeshua/Jesus wrote about him.. Historically, there are many non spiritual ancient texts written about people long dead but we don’t question their existence. Long ago, scholars, prophets and leaders had “scribes” who documented everything. No cameras, but Scribes. Bottom line: Jesus is documented as saying FEW will find there way to heaven in(New Testament) Matthew 7:14, and in the Old Testament (not in dispute) written WITHIN the 10 commandments by the finger of God himself in Exodus 20:6 says THOUSANDS would be saved. With 7.9 BILLION on earth and 1/3 claiming Christuanity, THOUSANDS (less than a million) would be a FEW. Those TRUE believers in Yeshua/Jesus and who keep his commandments and who don’t reject a belief in him when faced with death (which will be required under the coming Noahide laws), will be saved. Ironically, this Q non existent gospel seems to be related to the false prophet Q posting online predicting future (planned) events. The Bible warns us about this too. More end times deception
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and the duty of kings to seek out a matter. Did you seek at the root? Hebrew Q- Qoph
Saved - from what?
The first sentence in this comment is incorrect. The lack of any physical record of the gospel of Q is clearly laid out early in this lecture.
why does there have to be a source that is "Q", that Matthew and Luke have to borrow from? yes, it is new material not from Mark, that is shared on common with Matthew and Luke, but not in matching order or timelines. But does that really imply, that they were not honest or drawing from their own memories, RATHER THAN "another source"? that is my only problem with this Theory. IT implies, that without this "Q" source, Luke and Matthew would NOT HAVE KNOWN anything about Christ and those days to even write anything about...??? ?
I feel like this gives people faith in a historical Christ. Indeed the world is familiar in all religions with a mystical great teacher or "Enlightened Master" etc. Indeed when these appear followers expound upon their life and the deeds they accomplished as well as mix metaphor, allegory and confuse the two (some think Buddha popped out the side of his mother etc). Assuming Yahushua was the incarnation of "The All" into a man, even the most complete manifestation (say the pinnacle of man/all). The world is familiar with disciples communicating in dream and vision and being taught by such even while living and in death. Considering all this many can have a more concrete faith in a historical Yahushua (Jesus) in a new way. Even if they believe resurrection is allegorical (ie a new body).
Very insightful!
There are two sides to every story, for me I question if the book was spit in half and is the Koran the other side of the story? Interesting insights by our host.
many scholars think mtthw and Revelation both written originally in hebrew
Q tho seems to reflect v early xty and that xty is Galilean and different from the gospels...the story of the samaritan woman in john may reflect an early intended audience
Lol.. no
Matthew is the gospel directed to the Jews makes sense it is written in Aramaic not hebrew
@@ketsune23 It was originally written in Greek.
@@Chomper750 Matthew was written in Greek but there was a Aramaic version that was lost :) but you are right
No. They were not written in Hebrew first. They were written in Gieze language. Gieze is ancient Ethiopia writings. Jesus’s disciples were Ethiopians. Mother Mary’s parents homeland is also Ethiopia. Their monetary still stands in Ethiopia today. According to ancient Ethiopian literature, Gieze is the first language in the world with complete grammar based on mathematics.
Gieze is still used today.
🙏🙏🙏from Ethiopia
Meetup as in the app meetup or where ? Please post a link for Tuesday’s meet up.
Let's not confuse literature with history.
I agree. All manmade fiction....plus a nonexistent side story they can also make up.
We have been lied to for our ENTIRE LIVES about all History!!!!!
Nor the bible with reality.
40:00 never considered that if John had been found in nag hamadi it would NOT have been included in the canon. Seems open and shut to me
Hi Thank you for sharing.
If modernist science isn't capable to explain the internal coherence and complementary nature of the four gospels, then a scientist must say: "hypotheses non fingo". We have invented an unknown, unseen, not even and nowhere heard manuscript Q. Is there a single source in the antiquity talking on it? so what we are talking about? Thanks for your video explanation.
Maybe it’s not documented because it’s not meant for everyone. The people in charge aren’t allowing it or providing it. Modern science is evil - for now
Hows this then,
From a common teaching it got written once, 3 others copied parts and added their own agenda.