Another excellent Hamercopia of Knowledge this evening. Thank you again to John and everyone at Centre Place who bring these awesome lectures to us. I give this one 5 bags of popcorn, 2 sodas and a couple of timelines.
Another great Centre Place lecture. In particular I appreciate being given such a concise summary of the non-Biblical attestation to various kings of Judah and Israel.
So, John, how do you retain enough under that small head such huge gobs of information that so enlightens us? I know, no answer, just a sidelong compliment, after the many windows of topics splayed across the screen. Thanks, get a thanks button.
Leading Torah scholar Joel Baden is one of those who argue for David being a historical figure based on embarrassment. He argues that the account in Kings is the ancient genre of apology, explaining how everyone politically inconvenient to David dies in turn but it's conveniently never David's fault. I find it a compelling argument.
Per the Shapira scrolls, Idan Dershowitz has done updates on YT interviews proving the reasons the scrolls were rejected in the 1800's was due to lack of knowledge about ancient texts. All the objections then have been solidly refuted - the search for the scrolls to verify by modern standards is all that needs to be done now. Old objections were greatly flawed.
David's kingdom was in cusco Peru took it from the herodians the naval of the world zig zag walls 3 of them with the citadel overlooking the gated city of city of peace aka Jerusalem
In a study published in August 2017 by Marc Haber et al. in The American Journal of Human Genetics, the authors concluded that: "The overlap between the Bronze Age and present-day Levantines suggests a degree of genetic continuity in the region."[18]A 2021 study by the New York Genome Center found that the predominant component of the DNA of modern Palestinians matches that of Bronze Age Palestinians (Canaanites) from around 2500-1700 BCE.[17]. The Palestinian people are the original israelites and judeans.
Re: the last question, I place a lot more value in the Criterion of Embarrassment, the closer the text is written to the events it is describing, because the way I see it, the reason for the Criterion in my view is that whatever was seen as embarrassing would have to be well known enough, among the audience, to want to produce apologia about in the text itself. This doesn't preclude texts written significantly after from having the Criterion be applicable, if for instance there were records or oral tradition that would make whatever embarrassing material more well-known than the passage of time would indicate, but at some point it becomes an inference based off of an inference based off of an inference, if there's nothing to indicate the embarrassing material was at all remembered.
There have been 50 failed Jewish "Messiah's" since Jesus. At what point does God saying if a prophets prophecy does not come to pass, to know the prophet spoke presumptuously, and the prophecy was not His? We're talking over 2000 years. No wonder Jesus, in the Aramaic Matthew, said to not say he was the Messiah? or go after those who said he is? Maybe the whole "Messiah" thing is ignoring the passages where God said He is the one who would cause certain things to happen - but they continued to reject Him, just as Christians do to this day?
Excellent topics. I supposed most Israelites (jews and non-jews) today are not waiting anymore a biblical "Mesias" because they realize now that every single nation needs its particular political ruler. Anything else it is just an excuse or pretext.
Yep, linking 3 gates to Solomon seems logical - my alternate hypothesis is that there was a really clever engineer who visited 3 towns that REALLY needed help and the right person turned up at the right time👍👍 my view: a series of infrastructure projects that seem similar because the engineer is the same - not the benefactor paying the bill😳 from observation I would say that remote benefactors fund projects that are unique, have their name attached and are Easter eggs, local administration fund projects that are relevant, useful, pragmatic and cheap - sounds EXACTLY like three main gates exactly the same😳
Tbf🤔 on reflection I realise that maybe Solomon could have funded all three gates using the same engineer 😳 But if that’s the case I would still expect ridiculous Solomon branding etc and ‘here’s how great I’m am to you guys’ - should be there in the dirt somewhere
@@clareryan3843 A reasonable theory, but absence of self-promotion does not necessarily equal absence of existence. Although this does raise the point: without - often sickening - levels of self-promotion, nobody will know about you in the future. It is not that these tribes were so great they built any pyramids, or documented anything at the time in any detail. The fact these were achieved at the time by the Egyptians tells you how powerful the regional powers were.
I'm so thankful for your posts putting things out for us all to see. You are a wonderful teacher. We all need to know these things. Have you investigated the Shapira scrolls as they relate to the teachings of Jesus in Matthew? That's been my focus for a while. I had to conclude Paul was a liar and wrote "Romans Proves Paul Lied".
For any great empire you'll find solid evidence of its existence. Egypt you have pyramids, Khmer Kingdom you have Angkor Wat ruins. In China you have many ancient dynastic tombs, including the first Emperor that united the whole of China, Emperor Qin Shi Huang. And, evidence of many other great empires, based on historical (physical) evidence. It seems the myth of David & Solomon's kingdom is a myth. It also appears the number "40" is of significance to the Jews (at least to those that writes Jewish history). You see both David & Solomon rule the kingdom for "40" years. Moses and the Israelites were in the Sinai desert for "40" years, Moses went up to Mount Sinai for "40" days & nights. Recently, Israelis claimed Hamas be_eaded "40" Jewish children (which has proven to be false). So, could ancient Jews (those that put the biblical stories together) have a plan to conquer the minds of the world? As we know that the bible tells us "Jews are God's chosen people." As the current U.S. President Trump proclaimed Jerusalem and Golan Heights to be part of Israel. David and Soloman's kingdom was said to have been the "Golden Age" for the Jews, President Trump is now stating his presidency will be the "Golden Age." As he is strongly supported by Zionists (Jews & Christians), could he be playing out the role of "David"?
If the negative aspects of David's story are evidence that it is true, then you could argue that the King Arthur stories are true. Why else admit that his wife cheated on him? How embarrassing.
It is in fact a point in favor of their historicity. It has to be weighed against other contradicting evidence, though. Obviously not every embarrassing story ever is true, but people are less likely to invent embarrassing stories about themselves.
The people of David, the Morning Star (Snake), set out from Babylon. Christ, called up from Egypt, rulers from his throne and over his kingdom, preserving it for him. David has an everlasting covenant with Christ working for all his salvation and every desire. David has his senses restored, his kingdom returned, and he becomes much greater than before, as the Ancient One of Days seated upon his throne on the Mount of Assembly. His people will be a kingdom of priests, the Assembly on the Mount. Christ is presented before him and - washes his feet. The comes the end, when the Son of David hands the kingdom over to his God and Father. (There are, indeed, many Gods and many Lords yet for us, there is one God, the Father of the Son of David.) Remember, the Father you spring from is the Devil. Jesus is the only begotten Son of Satan, the God and ruler of this world.
The invading zionists, according to Israeli author Shlomo Sand in his book "The invention of the Jewish people are jewish converts alien to palestine. In the 8th century ad the Khazar kingdom in ukraine converted to judaism and would go on to make the ashkenazi jewish population in europe. Yemenis converted to judaism during the yemeni kindom o Himyar in the 5th century ad during the rule of Dul Nawas. There were jewish kingdoms in iraq and north africa as well. The palestinians are the eternal natives of the land. Free Palestine.
So ppl please don't let me down. Dont give up on me i usually make a ass out of myself cause im mad. Not happy and TOOKEN advantage of cause everything i say on social media thry steal my knowledge but Jesus Christ wont fail im connected i have the relec. The truth to show you like Micah prophesies Egypt
Common sense should always be in play when referencing the Bible as much as I wanted and needed to be of true content and the big one characters were a big lie
This guy admits there was a House of David 100 years after the Biblical David but there was no David? the Bible isn’t all true but it is a historical document. Why is it never given any weight by historians just seen as something that bears the burden of proving itself?
It's not exactly hard to understand the possible or even probible existence of David, a hypothetical chieftain of a small backwater, of which nothing is known about, because he wasn't particularly important except to his descendants, the future kings of Judah, doesn't have any bearing on the historicity of David, the biblical character who ruled over a vast kingdom.
It is never given weight because for over 150 years people have tried to prove the historical reality of the bible. Over that time rather than proving it has effectively done the reverse. In the UK we have the myth of King Arthur.....and like David, he may of existed but is there any real evidence versus wishful unsupported evidence to prove an exist belief....he was also called King but any writen reference to him is from centuries after he supposedly existed, just like David. Arthur may of existed but was he a king of the whole of Britain (which didn't exist at the time) or a battle chieftain.....no different to David.
The namesake of the Merovingian dynasty was the son of a sea monster. There is much less than one hundred years between the sea monster and historical evidence for the sea monster's descendants.. Does this prove the existence of sea monsters?
Um, not a myth. Seems you haven't been keeping up with all modern archeology taking place. More than one piece of evidence has been found in the last 6 years for David and his temple as well as one of the prophets. Thanks .
Yeah, and who pays for these studies? A bunch of fanatical Zionists looking to lay claim to the West Bank? Sounds like the same playbook as the Nazis looking for proof of the Aryans all over Europe 😂
More than one piece of evidence? Tell us what they are, and content produced by fringe Christian churches, creation ministries and pseudoarchaeology don't count.
All of them have been severly questioned and the majority of archeologists that study these regions and histories have suggested that discoveries do not prove the existance of David/Soloman let alone a combined kingdom of either. These discoveries are on a similar basis of those from the past....people needing to prove the truth of the histories proposed in the bible.
Another excellent Hamercopia of Knowledge this evening. Thank you again to John and everyone at Centre Place who bring these awesome lectures to us. I give this one 5 bags of popcorn, 2 sodas and a couple of timelines.
When you’ve got lectures like John Hamer in them, you can’t lose!
Another great Centre Place lecture. In particular I appreciate being given such a concise summary of the non-Biblical attestation to various kings of Judah and Israel.
Thank you again for yet another well planned, thoughtful lecture.
That's a lot to digest.
I'll have to go through this a few times.
Thank you
This dude is solid💪🏿🎤💯📚
💯
So, John, how do you retain enough under that small head such huge gobs of information that so enlightens us? I know, no answer, just a sidelong compliment, after the many windows of topics splayed across the screen. Thanks, get a thanks button.
Thanks!
Thanks John wishing you well in the new year
Amazing lecture! Thank you all!
I love this channel. A place for believers to congregate but also a place for us to critically analyze the Bible.
The chart of the kings at 36:42 is just amazingly good. If John didn’t teach religious history, he would teach data representation.
It's pretty much what he did before his religion gig. Not teaching, but he produced maps and other graphics for books. 😊
As always,total pleasure and uplifting to study with you.
Leading Torah scholar Joel Baden is one of those who argue for David being a historical figure based on embarrassment. He argues that the account in Kings is the ancient genre of apology, explaining how everyone politically inconvenient to David dies in turn but it's conveniently never David's fault. I find it a compelling argument.
another amazing lecture, thank you so much, John!
Per the Shapira scrolls, Idan Dershowitz has done updates on YT interviews proving the reasons the scrolls were rejected in the 1800's was due to lack of knowledge about ancient texts. All the objections then have been solidly refuted - the search for the scrolls to verify by modern standards is all that needs to be done now. Old objections were greatly flawed.
David's kingdom was in cusco Peru took it from the herodians the naval of the world zig zag walls 3 of them with the citadel overlooking the gated city of city of peace aka Jerusalem
Please explain. I don’t get what you are saying?
In a study published in August 2017 by Marc Haber et al. in The American Journal of Human Genetics, the authors concluded that: "The overlap between the Bronze Age and present-day Levantines suggests a degree of genetic continuity in the region."[18]A 2021 study by the New York Genome Center found that the predominant component of the DNA of modern Palestinians matches that of Bronze Age Palestinians (Canaanites) from around 2500-1700 BCE.[17]. The Palestinian people are the original israelites and judeans.
I've always loved historical maps as well. We always had an atlas at home when I was a kid in the '60s.
{:o:O:}
I came in late to the live and was lost so came back in to start at the beginning
Re: the last question, I place a lot more value in the Criterion of Embarrassment, the closer the text is written to the events it is describing, because the way I see it, the reason for the Criterion in my view is that whatever was seen as embarrassing would have to be well known enough, among the audience, to want to produce apologia about in the text itself. This doesn't preclude texts written significantly after from having the Criterion be applicable, if for instance there were records or oral tradition that would make whatever embarrassing material more well-known than the passage of time would indicate, but at some point it becomes an inference based off of an inference based off of an inference, if there's nothing to indicate the embarrassing material was at all remembered.
There have been 50 failed Jewish "Messiah's" since Jesus. At what point does God saying if a prophets prophecy does not come to pass, to know the prophet spoke presumptuously, and the prophecy was not His? We're talking over 2000 years. No wonder Jesus, in the Aramaic Matthew, said to not say he was the Messiah? or go after those who said he is? Maybe the whole "Messiah" thing is ignoring the passages where God said He is the one who would cause certain things to happen - but they continued to reject Him, just as Christians do to this day?
These lectures are great. What do you think about the references in the Old Testament to a history book “The History of the Kings…”?
Excellent topics. I supposed most Israelites (jews and non-jews) today are not waiting anymore a biblical "Mesias" because they realize now that every single nation needs its particular political ruler. Anything else it is just an excuse or pretext.
Peace on Earth will be achieved when only one Warlord remains.
May the Warlord bless and keep you. The alternative is rather unpleasant.
at least it is easy to remember the shape
Yep, linking 3 gates to Solomon seems logical - my alternate hypothesis is that there was a really clever engineer who visited 3 towns that REALLY needed help and the right person turned up at the right time👍👍 my view: a series of infrastructure projects that seem similar because the engineer is the same - not the benefactor paying the bill😳 from observation I would say that remote benefactors fund projects that are unique, have their name attached and are Easter eggs, local administration fund projects that are relevant, useful, pragmatic and cheap - sounds EXACTLY like three main gates exactly the same😳
Tbf🤔 on reflection I realise that maybe Solomon could have funded all three gates using the same engineer 😳 But if that’s the case I would still expect ridiculous Solomon branding etc and ‘here’s how great I’m am to you guys’ - should be there in the dirt somewhere
@@clareryan3843 A reasonable theory, but absence of self-promotion does not necessarily equal absence of existence. Although this does raise the point: without - often sickening - levels of self-promotion, nobody will know about you in the future. It is not that these tribes were so great they built any pyramids, or documented anything at the time in any detail. The fact these were achieved at the time by the Egyptians tells you how powerful the regional powers were.
*3 gates to Solomon* Except 6 similar gates (not 3) have been found. And they don't meet the Solomon timeline.
I'm so thankful for your posts putting things out for us all to see. You are a wonderful teacher. We all need to know these things. Have you investigated the Shapira scrolls as they relate to the teachings of Jesus in Matthew? That's been my focus for a while. I had to conclude Paul was a liar and wrote "Romans Proves Paul Lied".
David Divide Mk 3:24 --- however re content title choice of words "myth" Mtt 12:36
❤ cool!
I dont understand much but the subject its very interesting i guess with AI i can make it translate in french and with good understandable talking 😮
1:16:58 Dang Blinged Hilkiah!
Mulțumim!
For any great empire you'll find solid evidence of its existence. Egypt you have pyramids, Khmer Kingdom you have Angkor Wat ruins. In China you have many ancient dynastic tombs, including the first Emperor that united the whole of China, Emperor Qin Shi Huang. And, evidence of many other great empires, based on historical (physical) evidence. It seems the myth of David & Solomon's kingdom is a myth. It also appears the number "40" is of significance to the Jews (at least to those that writes Jewish history). You see both David & Solomon rule the kingdom for "40" years. Moses and the Israelites were in the Sinai desert for "40" years, Moses went up to Mount Sinai for "40" days & nights. Recently, Israelis claimed Hamas be_eaded "40" Jewish children (which has proven to be false). So, could ancient Jews (those that put the biblical stories together) have a plan to conquer the minds of the world? As we know that the bible tells us "Jews are God's chosen people." As the current U.S. President Trump proclaimed Jerusalem and Golan Heights to be part of Israel. David and Soloman's kingdom was said to have been the "Golden Age" for the Jews, President Trump is now stating his presidency will be the "Golden Age." As he is strongly supported by Zionists (Jews & Christians), could he be playing out the role of "David"?
53:12 I see what you did there, John.
If the negative aspects of David's story are evidence that it is true, then you could argue that the King Arthur stories are true. Why else admit that his wife cheated on him? How embarrassing.
It is in fact a point in favor of their historicity. It has to be weighed against other contradicting evidence, though. Obviously not every embarrassing story ever is true, but people are less likely to invent embarrassing stories about themselves.
Saints are me saint Michael is here the arch angel protector holy protection of Christ. Im here
And the comments of the religious ppl always have to make their story true of their god
Im gonna succeed 💪
They can move earth my years of digging
The people of David, the Morning Star (Snake), set out from Babylon. Christ, called up from Egypt, rulers from his throne and over his kingdom, preserving it for him. David has an everlasting covenant with Christ working for all his salvation and every desire.
David has his senses restored, his kingdom returned, and he becomes much greater than before, as the Ancient One of Days seated upon his throne on the Mount of Assembly. His people will be a kingdom of priests, the Assembly on the Mount. Christ is presented before him and - washes his feet.
The comes the end, when the Son of David hands the kingdom over to his God and Father. (There are, indeed, many Gods and many Lords yet for us, there is one God, the Father of the Son of David.) Remember, the Father you spring from is the Devil. Jesus is the only begotten Son of Satan, the God and ruler of this world.
Solomon the truth of the Sheba treasure
I kust not he in the us. So listen please. District 9 Yemen district 9 was Indiana state college. Bucks county
Please somebody help me message me the sooner somebody listens the faster lifes sre saved. The mafia controls wifi
The invading zionists, according to Israeli author Shlomo Sand in his book "The invention of the Jewish people are jewish converts alien to palestine. In the 8th century ad the Khazar kingdom in ukraine converted to judaism and would go on to make the ashkenazi jewish population in europe. Yemenis converted to judaism during the yemeni kindom o Himyar in the 5th century ad during the rule of Dul Nawas. There were jewish kingdoms in iraq and north africa as well. The palestinians are the eternal natives of the land. Free Palestine.
So ppl please don't let me down. Dont give up on me i usually make a ass out of myself cause im mad. Not happy and TOOKEN advantage of cause everything i say on social media thry steal my knowledge but Jesus Christ wont fail im connected i have the relec. The truth to show you like Micah prophesies Egypt
Jonas ark
Go to ww2 maps
Video: Archaeological evidence that proves the Bible is true, by Don Patton.
Common sense should always be in play when referencing the Bible as much as I wanted and needed to be of true content and the big one characters were a big lie
@@terrandlewis9592And to write oneself into history equals bible.
This guy admits there was a House of David 100 years after the Biblical David but there was no David? the Bible isn’t all true but it is a historical document. Why is it never given any weight by historians just seen as something that bears the burden of proving itself?
The bible is a historical document but it does not necessarily document history. There is little archaeological evidence for much of it.
It's not exactly hard to understand the possible or even probible existence of David, a hypothetical chieftain of a small backwater, of which nothing is known about, because he wasn't particularly important except to his descendants, the future kings of Judah, doesn't have any bearing on the historicity of David, the biblical character who ruled over a vast kingdom.
Intellectual honesty at work.
It is never given weight because for over 150 years people have tried to prove the historical reality of the bible. Over that time rather than proving it has effectively done the reverse. In the UK we have the myth of King Arthur.....and like David, he may of existed but is there any real evidence versus wishful unsupported evidence to prove an exist belief....he was also called King but any writen reference to him is from centuries after he supposedly existed, just like David. Arthur may of existed but was he a king of the whole of Britain (which didn't exist at the time) or a battle chieftain.....no different to David.
The namesake of the Merovingian dynasty was the son of a sea monster. There is much less than one hundred years between the sea monster and historical evidence for the sea monster's descendants.. Does this prove the existence of sea monsters?
Um, not a myth. Seems you haven't been keeping up with all modern archeology taking place. More than one piece of evidence has been found in the last 6 years for David and his temple as well as one of the prophets.
Thanks .
Are we supposed to take your word for it or do you have citable examples?
False,it is a myth.
Yeah, and who pays for these studies? A bunch of fanatical Zionists looking to lay claim to the West Bank? Sounds like the same playbook as the Nazis looking for proof of the Aryans all over Europe 😂
More than one piece of evidence? Tell us what they are, and content produced by fringe Christian churches, creation ministries and pseudoarchaeology don't count.
All of them have been severly questioned and the majority of archeologists that study these regions and histories have suggested that discoveries do not prove the existance of David/Soloman let alone a combined kingdom of either. These discoveries are on a similar basis of those from the past....people needing to prove the truth of the histories proposed in the bible.
Its not a myth. Its a truth and the fake and false will be now exposed
Wrong. Unless of course you can do what no one has ever done. Find evidence to support the bible
M.A.G.A. 🇺🇲
What does that have to do with this topic?
@@jaywatanabe4706Trump is the new messiah and Elon is his profit....oops sorry Prophet.
@@iainrendle7989 All praise "Cheeto Jesus"
Thanks!
Thanks!