I have a tc mint. It just pushed out its first fenestrated leaf. I honestly only bought it because people were saying they never grow past a certain point and would never fenestrate. That intrigued me to see for myself 😂
I think it’s very important to note that TC does not make ALL PLANTS readily available, especially with variegation. Yes it has worked for Thai, White Monster, Caramel Marble, LF Aurea…but like you noted, not all variegations are going to be stable enough to replicate in tissue culture! There’s a reason the White Monster is the mint in Tissue Culture and not the Jungle Mint NoID and several others, and those plants will always carry a great deal more value than a TC plant. Successful TC also does not mean a plant is inferior, so thank you for touching on that. White Monster and Caramel Marble are not more likely to revert just because they are TC, people are forgetting that it’s a very high occurrence in non-TC for those as well and it is unfortunate but shouldn’t be surprising that TC kept that same trait from the parent plants. In most, like you said, the main difference for non-TC is just the story that comes with it, not the plant. It is also unfortunate, in the case of the miracle, that some further mutations get blocked into the goal plant and ends up tricking buyers. Informed decisions are always important here, but mis-informing others is also a dangerous thing (especially with those White Monsters and Caramel Marbles). Thank you for touching on both sides of that argument.
@@caseynichols7230 glad you enjoyed and got lots from the video. TC critique is can be very nuanced and it’s important to note both the positives and downfalls of it!
Every issues that you address is a spot-on. I'm wondering if this is your new channel, because I'm pretty sure I've seen your contents before. Maybe you collaborated with Sean from Onlyplants?
@@fahsai_saisadue I was featured on Onlyplants in his Monstera Variety video! 😊 I was inspired to do UA-cam because of him and the demand for good long form Monstera content. I’m glad you enjoyed the video.
Hi Josh, thanks for this video! We don't even have these in NZ but if I was to buy one - I'd be expecting one like you imported. Re TC in general - there'll be a time when plants that were not TC might be getting more expensive with time and market saturated with TC. I did something similar with white monster - didn't fly to see Kunzo-san but searched local collectors and got hands on a cutting ❤ I consider it my crown jewel 😁 All the best Josh 🦄
@@smajliiicka thank you for your response friend. Yes, people already have an idea of what the Miracle is and it is misleading that businesses are selling one that looks so different! I’m glad you got your hands on a White Monster. It is a cool one, though a bit frustrating at times!
@@SiaLaterPlants I do agree with WM, my last 2 leaves are like total opposite to each other, one turned green and the other is green white - still beautiful but ready to chop with next leaf. I do like that TC gives the opportunity to get hands on plants that were thousands of dollars but, as you pointed out as well, it's kinda bad taste selling something that is not true to its origin in appearance.
A similar discussion can be had for “true” species, especially anthurium. A small fruit fly or insect can totally change the plant (SKG AOS for example). Tissue culture can produce a lot of beautiful plants but sometimes the variegation leads to deformed foliage. If the tc plants were repeatedly subcultured a lot, it can lead to some problems such as poor growth, weaker genes, etc. I just enjoy the plants as they are and seeing all the mutations has made me appreciate the original ones more, especially in their natural habitat.
Totally. It’s fascinating because there are Monstera that are exclusively sought after for their mutated foliage, like Ocean Mint or NSE Contorta for example. Ideas and opinions on beauty are a big part of it as well and I’m interested in how we are deciding what is worth growing and what is considered “inferior”. There are many folks that like the look of what is being sold as the TC Miracle.
Although I see many Thai con at big box stores now, I find the variegation on them is very poor which is unfortunate. Not great genetics on the mother plant or subcultures too much (I suspect the latter).
@@manueltomatillos3348 Yellow Marilyn is a Large Form Aurea. Originally from Kunzo, it was a select large form aurea that he really liked for the bright and strong color. I have a video on large and small form as well that you can check out to see if your yellow Marilyn is a large form to confirm!
For me miracle and those sport variegated thai constellation tc are completely different and shouldn t be confused. It's obvious to the eyes that both are so different, miracle has this very clean aurea variegation and normal leaves, and on the other hand a deformed, muted, sick, GoG thai constellation. For me i just think that with all the thai constellation tissue culture massive production that we just went through, some of those tcs got a random new sport variegation that producers just labeled without doing proper research and named it miracle because it was the closest looking variety. For me the name 'tricolor thai constellation' is way more suitable for this new variety(?) Also for mint and white monster i would say it's pretty much the same, i don t think there s a lot of difference.. maybe the stability of the variegation.
@@Gabechery56 Me 😆 Just kidding. Since majority on the market right now are sport discoveries that are not produced in large quantity, most people selling the true miracle only have one or two available and they are several thousand each at the moment. Feel free to message me on IG if you are still looking, and I can let you know if I find another
OK, so you're comparing a more juvenile form that you got from TC to a more mature plant. I've seen Thai Constellation that people bought before they were TC and took until the plant was producing fenestrated leaves to produce high variegation. I think you need to grow the younger plant out before making that judgement that they "aren't the same". TC is genetically identical to the mother, there is ZERO difference between a TC and a node propagation. The problem is the variegation because it is unstable. You can buy a node prop from what you would consider a "real" Miracle and have it completely revert or just have poor variegation. What you maybe are not aware of about TC (when done in Asia) is that they are graded. Few sellers disclose what grade (A, AA, AAA) TC they purchased, but the price will usually tell you. AAA grade sells for quite a bit more from the producer than AA or A because so few come out AAA (what you might call "real"). Generally, about 5% will be AAA, 65% AA and 20% A (the remaining 10% are considered revert). The AAA will show the best variegation and color on the first 2 leaves, AA will show less variegation, A will have the least variegation. That isn't to say that an A can't become a stellar plant, it just doesn't show it in TC.
@@michaelmccarthy4077 I’m very aware that TC is graded. What you maybe didn’t hear perhaps is that I was not sure if the miracles being sold in the USA were TC of the Thai Miracle or a completely different Thai Constellation. Variegation does not change even with maturity. The variegation on what is being sold as the TC miracles has poorly delineated, green on green color and contorted shape. The Thai Miracle has perfect round leaves and bright yellow variegation that is well defined on the leaf. Those characteristics of the Thai Miracle are consistent even in juvenile plants, so from those traits alone I can still make a comparison to the TC version being sold.
@@michaelmccarthy4077 you may have also not watched enough of the video where I discuss the TC Mint and how there is virtually no difference in the plant in how it acts and appears compared to White Monster. I address all these things in the video.
Just as much, don’t jump at the first TCs available as they may prove that replication by TC isn’t possible. Yes, Miracle is a mutation found in TC, but are only found as mutations of Thai and still very rare. I think Joshua did a great job highlighting that attempts to TC from a miracle mother are very unsuccessful so far, and may prove not possible. It may be available in the future, but I wouldn’t hold your breath yet.
What do you guys think? Have you bought any of these TC Monstera? Let us know about your experience or thoughts in the comments!
Love you man! And I have to agree with you, I’ve found more than a handful of these and they’re very clearly not a true miracle.
I got a mint TC. I’ll update ya on how it grows 😊
@@hightunnel2723 yes please!
I have a tc mint. It just pushed out its first fenestrated leaf. I honestly only bought it because people were saying they never grow past a certain point and would never fenestrate. That intrigued me to see for myself 😂
@@lvbaum3 finally! I don’t see many with fenestration!
Loving your videos Josh! Thank you for being so informative and mindful when interpreting differences between plants and points of contention.
Thanks for addressing this. I see people label things as monstera miracle but it looks so sus and doesn’t look like yours.
Glad you enjoyed, totally agree. Important for buyers to know!
I think it’s very important to note that TC does not make ALL PLANTS readily available, especially with variegation. Yes it has worked for Thai, White Monster, Caramel Marble, LF Aurea…but like you noted, not all variegations are going to be stable enough to replicate in tissue culture! There’s a reason the White Monster is the mint in Tissue Culture and not the Jungle Mint NoID and several others, and those plants will always carry a great deal more value than a TC plant.
Successful TC also does not mean a plant is inferior, so thank you for touching on that. White Monster and Caramel Marble are not more likely to revert just because they are TC, people are forgetting that it’s a very high occurrence in non-TC for those as well and it is unfortunate but shouldn’t be surprising that TC kept that same trait from the parent plants. In most, like you said, the main difference for non-TC is just the story that comes with it, not the plant. It is also unfortunate, in the case of the miracle, that some further mutations get blocked into the goal plant and ends up tricking buyers. Informed decisions are always important here, but mis-informing others is also a dangerous thing (especially with those White Monsters and Caramel Marbles).
Thank you for touching on both sides of that argument.
@@caseynichols7230 glad you enjoyed and got lots from the video. TC critique is can be very nuanced and it’s important to note both the positives and downfalls of it!
Great video! Thanks for sharing it with us!
💚🪴💚
Every issues that you address is a spot-on. I'm wondering if this is your new channel, because I'm pretty sure I've seen your contents before. Maybe you collaborated with Sean from Onlyplants?
@@fahsai_saisadue I was featured on Onlyplants in his Monstera Variety video! 😊 I was inspired to do UA-cam because of him and the demand for good long form Monstera content. I’m glad you enjoyed the video.
Hi Josh, thanks for this video! We don't even have these in NZ but if I was to buy one - I'd be expecting one like you imported.
Re TC in general - there'll be a time when plants that were not TC might be getting more expensive with time and market saturated with TC.
I did something similar with white monster - didn't fly to see Kunzo-san but searched local collectors and got hands on a cutting ❤ I consider it my crown jewel 😁
All the best Josh 🦄
@@smajliiicka thank you for your response friend. Yes, people already have an idea of what the Miracle is and it is misleading that businesses are selling one that looks so different!
I’m glad you got your hands on a White Monster. It is a cool one, though a bit frustrating at times!
@@SiaLaterPlants I do agree with WM, my last 2 leaves are like total opposite to each other, one turned green and the other is green white - still beautiful but ready to chop with next leaf.
I do like that TC gives the opportunity to get hands on plants that were thousands of dollars but, as you pointed out as well, it's kinda bad taste selling something that is not true to its origin in appearance.
I appreciate your take on the mint TC. by definition yes they are mint monsteras. So horticulturally they are mints but in botanical terms not so much
A similar discussion can be had for “true” species, especially anthurium. A small fruit fly or insect can totally change the plant (SKG AOS for example).
Tissue culture can produce a lot of beautiful plants but sometimes the variegation leads to deformed foliage. If the tc plants were repeatedly subcultured a lot, it can lead to some problems such as poor growth, weaker genes, etc.
I just enjoy the plants as they are and seeing all the mutations has made me appreciate the original ones more, especially in their natural habitat.
Totally. It’s fascinating because there are Monstera that are exclusively sought after for their mutated foliage, like Ocean Mint or NSE Contorta for example. Ideas and opinions on beauty are a big part of it as well and I’m interested in how we are deciding what is worth growing and what is considered “inferior”. There are many folks that like the look of what is being sold as the TC Miracle.
Well done, Joshua
@@michaelzito7252 thanks Michael
Although I see many Thai con at big box stores now, I find the variegation on them is very poor which is unfortunate. Not great genetics on the mother plant or subcultures too much (I suspect the latter).
@@candied.crabapples I’ve noticed the same. Lower variegation TC batches have become much more common unfortunately.
Same with the pink princess philos. The green on them are so pale!
I had ordered a Monstera Yellow Marlin and 2 Aurea TC. I think I got played with the Marlin. Might just be another Aurea
@@manueltomatillos3348 Yellow Marilyn is a Large Form Aurea. Originally from Kunzo, it was a select large form aurea that he really liked for the bright and strong color.
I have a video on large and small form as well that you can check out to see if your yellow Marilyn is a large form to confirm!
For me miracle and those sport variegated thai constellation tc are completely different and shouldn t be confused.
It's obvious to the eyes that both are so different, miracle has this very clean aurea variegation and normal leaves, and on the other hand a deformed, muted, sick, GoG thai constellation. For me i just think that with all the thai constellation tissue culture massive production that we just went through, some of those tcs got a random new sport variegation that producers just labeled without doing proper research and named it miracle because it was the closest looking variety. For me the name 'tricolor thai constellation' is way more suitable for this new variety(?)
Also for mint and white monster i would say it's pretty much the same, i don t think there s a lot of difference.. maybe the stability of the variegation.
@@zepoissondu4510 I think so too. If they were sold as a tricolor Thai mutation that would be totally fine, it’s not even an issue about price either.
Where do I go to get a real miracle monstera?
@@Gabechery56 Me 😆
Just kidding. Since majority on the market right now are sport discoveries that are not produced in large quantity, most people selling the true miracle only have one or two available and they are several thousand each at the moment.
Feel free to message me on IG if you are still looking, and I can let you know if I find another
And I love plants!!!
OK, so you're comparing a more juvenile form that you got from TC to a more mature plant. I've seen Thai Constellation that people bought before they were TC and took until the plant was producing fenestrated leaves to produce high variegation. I think you need to grow the younger plant out before making that judgement that they "aren't the same".
TC is genetically identical to the mother, there is ZERO difference between a TC and a node propagation. The problem is the variegation because it is unstable. You can buy a node prop from what you would consider a "real" Miracle and have it completely revert or just have poor variegation. What you maybe are not aware of about TC (when done in Asia) is that they are graded. Few sellers disclose what grade (A, AA, AAA) TC they purchased, but the price will usually tell you. AAA grade sells for quite a bit more from the producer than AA or A because so few come out AAA (what you might call "real"). Generally, about 5% will be AAA, 65% AA and 20% A (the remaining 10% are considered revert). The AAA will show the best variegation and color on the first 2 leaves, AA will show less variegation, A will have the least variegation. That isn't to say that an A can't become a stellar plant, it just doesn't show it in TC.
@@michaelmccarthy4077 I’m very aware that TC is graded. What you maybe didn’t hear perhaps is that I was not sure if the miracles being sold in the USA were TC of the Thai Miracle or a completely different Thai Constellation.
Variegation does not change even with maturity. The variegation on what is being sold as the TC miracles has poorly delineated, green on green color and contorted shape. The Thai Miracle has perfect round leaves and bright yellow variegation that is well defined on the leaf. Those characteristics of the Thai Miracle are consistent even in juvenile plants, so from those traits alone I can still make a comparison to the TC version being sold.
@@michaelmccarthy4077 you may have also not watched enough of the video where I discuss the TC Mint and how there is virtually no difference in the plant in how it acts and appears compared to White Monster. I address all these things in the video.
Where's my tea..☕😅
It’s here 👀
@SiaLaterPlants 😂 and you do not sound like a maniac! I feel the same way about plants!
@@SiaLaterPlantswe’re gonna need to dive deeper. I’d like a bigger cup of tea lol
@@hightunnel2723 I’ve got a whole kettle brewing!
447 subscribers your a very good UA-camr singed Meow Kitty
Miracle = TC, don’t spend a lot of money on plants :)
Just as much, don’t jump at the first TCs available as they may prove that replication by TC isn’t possible. Yes, Miracle is a mutation found in TC, but are only found as mutations of Thai and still very rare. I think Joshua did a great job highlighting that attempts to TC from a miracle mother are very unsuccessful so far, and may prove not possible. It may be available in the future, but I wouldn’t hold your breath yet.
6 min ago?
@@tavinstaber4507 video just came out!