Living with gods: Inner voices
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- Опубліковано 22 січ 2018
- Professor Charles Fernyhough tells us about how examining the life 15th-century mystic, Margery Kempe can inform what we think about our own inner voices today.
Living with gods: peoples, places and worlds beyond
2 November 2017 - 8 April 2018
To find out more and book tickets, visit: goo.gl/vr1ZEQ
Supported by the Genesis Foundation. With grateful thanks to John Studzinski CBE.
The exhibition accompanies a series on BBC Radio 4 with Neil MacGregor.
Praise our Maker for the conscience...
I have read Margery Kempe's book two or three times and what stands out is her self-aggrandizement, desire to escape her marriage, and the tedious repetition of her visions. She usually went into seizures, screamed, fell on the floor and rolled around. Her visions remained the same throughout her life - mainly helping the virgin Mary with baby Jesus, or offering devotion to the Holy Family. When on pilgrimage to the Holy Land she notoriously drove the other pilgrims crazy, falling down and moaning in front of every statue or relic. I don't know if she was a true visionary, all I can say that from reading her own report of her life; I think she was a clever, bored housewife and overwhelmed mother, who saw an opportunity to get out and took it.
That to me sounds more like mental illness, like schizophrenia or even autism with psychosis, and she’s contextualized her hallucinations as spiritual visions. Admittedly, I haven’t read the book, but that’s what the description sounds like to me.
wanting more. Hope there are more videos in the works
Beautiful, thank you for sharing.
Studied world religions, philosophies, and ancient history for 14 years in my youth, with a short stint in the occult when I was young and searching for the Truth. Had some supernatural experiences that began (at this point) 22 years of what my doctors have diagnosed as schizophrenia, with auditory, visual and olfactory hallucinations. But the tribulation of that trial would not have been survivable if not for my research all those years, plus (now) 33 years of Bible studies. The trial cleaned me up from a profligate life, got me in church, and now 14 years later, 14 years of sobriety, I am an elder in my local congregation. Always was interested in studies done about this stuff.
"[B]e on your guard so that you will not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure standing. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity."
This reminds me of Hildegard of Bingen who was born at the end of the 11th century. She was sent into a monastry and had spiritual visions which she put into songs. Look her up if you're interested. Wikipedia articles about her are quite long in several languages.
I have a fan in my bedroom and I've been hearing music and voices coming from it since I started taking anti anxiety medication. The music or voices aren't clear though but I sometime wonder if it's because I'm a skeptic and therefore my brain does not furnish further details. Maybe I would have heard God talking to me when I was a Catholic.
Get help.
You need a pharmacology review - either to change the drug or lower the dose. See your GP.
No offence dude but this can be a hard sign of a starting psychosis or scizophrenia
I have experienced this but found when I bought a new ceiling fan, it stopped. Have you tried changing the speed? Maybe it's out of balance and creating very subtle tones which your brain tries to interpret into speech or music. Does it happen when the fan isn't going? (If that's the case, I'd see a professional.) I don't think you have to subscribe to any religious belief system to speak with God if that's what you want. Just go sit outside and listen to the sounds of nature. Good luck to you and namaste.
Usually with benzo withdrawal it'll lead to this esp. Xanax. Good luck
I feel that there's a difference of perception between internal dialogue, sleep talk, flashbacks/memory echoes, self dissociation, split personality, schizophrenia, hallucinations, chemical reactions, telekinesis, some other worldly or hyper-dimensional being communicating (that isn't God because if God exists, then God would be the whole, not above the whole, but the whole itself, while the fragments make up the whole), and speaking to God (if possible). There's only infinity beyond our human comprehension. The possibilities are as dynamic as life itself.
Meaning is something we humans impart to events. Events in themselves, even anomalous events, do not come wrapped up in meaning just waiting for us to discover. A heterogeneous group of experts can do noting more than paint events with different shades of meaning from the pallet each respective field has at hand. That process can be fun - which seems the only real purpose of the exercise.
I live constantly with the rustling of the Holy Spirit, it's called tinnitus!
Since the people of Medieval Europe were very religious, I wonder, are deeply religious people more prone to hallucination ? Especially if they are not very well educated? Because there are many many stories and reports of devout people having all sorts of visions and encounters. And in my own case, my Grandfather on my mother's side at one point sat in a chair and started talking to a wall, thinking he was talking to Jesus, for about two hours. Maybe this could also explain ghost encounters and alien abductions?
The Flaine : People having visions and hearing voices and so on seems to be about as common now as it was in the Middle Ages, but it was interpreted differently then. We see it as an illness; they saw it as a gift or a curse, depending on the nature of the visions and the personality of the individual.
It's not that religious people have more hallucinations or hear more voices. It's a case of not having a logical, science based explanation for it during the medieval times. Medical knowledge and technology was basically non existent and science was generally suppressed by the church unless it agreed with the church's teachings. So you really would have only had religion as a reference. It is interesting to note that not everyone who heard voices or saw visions were embraced by the church and their fellows. If you were of the nobility or you were a church official with no political enemies you might be hailed as a prophet. If you were a pig farmer or you had enemies in the church the odds are you would have been accused of witchcraft, consorting with demons or possessed. For every Margery Kempe there's like 10 other people who had the same experiences and ended up being burned at the stake or locked in a dungeon.
@@HurricaneSA Hmm, not too sure about this one chief.
@@abramwarpness6053 We're debating history. If you're not sure about something look it up!
@@HurricaneSA Yes I know, thank you. It seems you're making the Catholic church look misleading.
like the logos? or the daemon of socrates?
also i wonder... psychosis for women is possible thru an esteogen imbalance caused by pregnancy or by their period. couid have been bc it was after her 1st chikd was born.
green screen - the background is scaled preposterously wrong.
Looks fine to me...a couple of changes of the camera's focal length, which (of course) changes the angle of view and perspective. I thought the camera work, to include the audio, was well done.
What does this gibberish have to do with the British Museum?
This video could have been cut down to 2 minutes, there is really not much in it.
*Internal **_dialogue?_* How should that be possible? A _dialogue_ with whom? These were *internal monologues* -- nothing that was registered by these people in these imagined or hallucinated "encounters", nothing experienced there went further than what they already knew, what they already had experienced or imagined before. These "mystics" probably were just suffering from various kinds of poisoning by toxic ingredients of their diet caused by the ways of food storage and preparation and practising agriculture that were prevalent in the medieval period. Thatswhy most of the constructions of meaning built around these experiences, be they contemporary or ex post, are nothing but sheer imaginations themselves, often exaggerated, or bent to serve the biases, needs, agendas, and likings of those delivering their "explanations".
You can simulate entities in your mind; you can have a discussion with someone inside your mind.
So, i would also call it a dialogue, no matter the origin of the entities.
A dialogue is typically with two people. In her visions, or perhaps hallucinations, she'd be talking with other beings besides herself.
Thanks. I'm talking about *reality.* In reality it isn't a dialogue but a still monologue, if the "other" only exists in a person's imagination and the person him/herself is the only one who does the thinking with none other beings involved. It was these people talking to themselves, listening, 'praying' to themselves. Being honest and precise, one shouldn't call this type of thought process a "dialogue". Just like two characters talking to each other in a Shakespeare play is not a real dialogue but everything originates in the single mind of the author. But in a theatre, nobody in his right mind would think there's a real dialogue going on on stage.
rubadux A dialogue does not require any aspect of the dialogue to be real.
Indeed, a dialogue is usually between 2 seperate individuals.
However, a dialogue between 2 individuals inside 1 physical individual would be a correct application of the word.
oh, and about realness, a conversation only has to seem real to the participants.
This usage is widespread and accepted.
e.g. Fight club
As a person who suffers from a psychotic tendency, it can be very much like a dialogue when experiencing auditory hallucinations. The brain is generating voices and you are communicating with them constantly. I discuss with them, and to confuse that with a religious experience is easy. Misinterpretation of chemical issue in the brain or a brain malformation as being a gift from god providing answers is easy from the subjective experience. I only see my reality. If you are only given one set of data points and it is skewed by illogical representation thanks to a brain that literally changes your reality, everything can be changed to be illogical. Seeing things that don't exist and hearing things that don't exist is terrifying, and in essence that rewrites reality. because it generates a new reality that no one else is experiencing... i apologize if i rambled on or if it was out of context, i never comment on anything, just felt i had something to add.
Completely missing the likeliest etiology and diagnosis. Typical of the religiously-biased.
Probably, many psycho somatic conditions can not exactly be brought in line with the descriptions of the official medical registries of the ailments… Thus, making the diagnosis would be very complicated…
I was referring to a still-too-frequently-misdiagnosed psychiatric condition that was probably much more prevalent in the violent, female- and child-devaluing Middle Ages. Psychosomatic complaints do afflict patients, but are not the primary diagnostic features.
Mythicist nonsense.
what?
Pardon? Probably not.