How to date an Artefact | Tudor Pendant of Henry VIII & Katherine of Aragon | Curator's Corner S8 E2
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- How does one go about dating an artefact that was found in a field in England by a metal detectorist? And by dating we’re not talking dinner and a movie with your favourite curb chain…
As part of the Treasure process in the UK, artefacts found by metal detectorists that happen to be of a high percentage precious metal, need to go through a process of identification and classification. Join curator, Rachel King as she investigates the clues found on this spectacular gold pendant to shed some light on when it was made, by whom and for whom.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
02:00 A Quick Aside - Terminus dates
02:45 Investigating the clues on the front
03:48 The clues on the back
04:39 Dating the materials
05:00 The Gold Standard
06:06 Enamel decoration
07:47 The Tudor Curb chain
09:55 Johann Froben
11:46 Jousting at Greenwich
13:20 Who could afford such an artefact?
Find out everything you need to know about Treasure and The Portable Antiquities Scheme here: www.britishmuseum.org/our-wor...
I have a (girl) friend that's been dating an artefact for over forty years now. She found him in a field, asleep. He's been examined by a few experts. They all conclude he's worthless but she still loves him.
This is the quality content I clicked for
🤣
Good one. I only clicked just to check humorous comments.
@@tdswen1 Hope it made ya laugh.
@@rockets4kids me too! Only reason I clicked hahahaha
Silly me. I came here hoping to get some romantic advice for my later years.
Very good
Holy Shit. Very good.
You weren't the only one...and I am pushing into those "later years". First they get your hopes up, then destroy them in one go :-(
lol you beat me to making a similar joke.
Maybe don’t behead your wives, that could help
I love the thought that this was found in a field...and we flash back five hundred odd years to someone going to take off their necklace only to find it missing...Here we are, connected by the losing and finding of this beautiful object. I'm sorry it was lost but I'm so glad it's been found.
Archaeologists secretly love when people lose things. Even though we've had access to metalworking for millennia, we have relatively few metal artifacts compared to other materials because metal is so often melted down and reused. if this pendant hadn't been lost, it likely wouldn't have survived to today.
@@pallasproserpina4118 That makes SO much sense! I love that I now know that. Thanks for sharing :)
Considering the less-than-perfect craftsmanship she pointed out, and the price point of the object as a trinket for Henry but a significant purchase for a courtier, I can picture this being an unappreciated gift to the royal couple. Maybe even intentionally "lost" as far from the party as they could throw it.
I know the dating is mid 1510s, but could it have been an object from Henry and Katherine’s visit to Warwick castle in 1511? A lot of hunting going on during that visit. In any case, simply amazing find.
Thanks for this!
The hand emerging from a cloud is a symbol that has been around since at least the 9th century, representing God's hand acting in the world. In this case, showing the supposed approval of God for the marriage of Henry and Katherine. The _Manus Dei_ clearly emerging from a cloud with a crown is seen above the head of Charles the Bald, who is flanked by two popes in an illustration c. 870 in the Bibliothèque nationale de France: manuscript Latin 1141, fol. 2v.
Interesting. I looked it up. Not quite as fancy looking as this, but really interesting. I would not have known why that hand was just hanging up there. To the unlearned, like me, that hand hovering over Charles the Bald looked strange indeed. I guess in the case of this necklace it represents the hand of God bringing the two houses together in the marriage union. Thanks for the comment.
Thank you for this! I was taken aback by the presenter's assertion that the symbol was relatively contemporary with the Tudors, I was sure I had seen it more than once in older items, but couldn't remember where I had seen it.
@@megwilcox2878 There are less obviously cloud-based hands from back to the time of Constantine the Great of Constantinople.
@@pattheplanter It's one of my favourite motifs. Look out! Disembodied hand coming!
Indeed. It's quite strange, to say the least, that at the museum they ignore it.
That was fascinating. Your expert has a really nice style of presenting her material. Oozes expertise !
Agree, and she has a very pleasant voice to listen to, as well, as she presents the materials, methods of study, and explanations.
I agree that the expert is top notch. I would love to see more about HOW some of the additional tools and techniques worked (the mechanical steps) and the boundaries of each machine and it’s each useless and Lee xomvrided
I could spend whole days listening to the museum curators. Thank you so much
My goodness, your Rachel King is wonderful! More from her corner, please! (Liked and subscribed!)
She is phenomenal!
‘The usual way. Flowers, chocolates, and promises you don’t intend to keep’ -Cogsworth from Beauty and the Beast
As Ms. Rachel King says, one of the most intriguing questions is, how did this 500-year-old piece of aristocratic jewelry get buried in a farm field in Warwickshire? That’s the kind of puzzle that may never be solved, but if anybody finds out, I’d love to know.
Yes, I wondered about that, too. It would seem to lend credence to the theory that the pendant was not made directly for the king.
It could be anything .... Maybe it was stolen and dropped
I don't find it intriguing whatsoever. A tourney, which Henry was very fond of.
@@Lulu-ut9pv Exactly. Or just dropped/lost during a royal “progress”.
This lovely piece of jewelry was given to the victor of the joust, the Earl of Warwick who had it buried for safekeeping. If you believe that (although plausible!), I gotta bridge...
Amazing what can be found still lying about waiting for discovery!! The detective work in finding out what this piece is all about is exceptional!! 🌷🌷
It's not really is it. Just tedious scrolling of old texts.
@@Ulnvtcydr I think the educated guess of knowing which texts to look at, and the clues from the object, have the elements of detective work. May just be semantics though. 😸
It’s ironic that this pendant celebrating the marriage of Henry VIII and Catherine (Katherine) of Aragon has the motto “Tous Iors” (“always” or “forever”), since that marriage was, famously, annulled.
Hardly ironic - perhaps unfortunate.
Probably why it was in the ground
Perhaps the phrase "quelques jours" would have been more appropriate.
What a beautiful, special object. Imagine finding something like this, in 2019! Makes you wonder how many beautiful treasures there are still left that we haven’t found yet. It’s in such a splendid condition too. Also makes me wonder if I should just quit my job and start looking for special objects like this full time (after proper training of course). Great video. Historians, you are amazing.
This content is incredible! It’s so fun to discover items alongside the museum. Would love to see more content like this. What a great way to learn history and also feel like we are understanding more about how complicated it is to determine the significance of artifacts. I didn’t realize how complex it could be! Loved this!
I adore this series. Though I am now out of the business of selling antiques, I hope to never stop learning. Thank you!
How to date an artifact- sorry, artefact-is fascinating! But while watching Curator Corners with Sue Brunning, and now Rachel King, I can’t help but wonder how to date a curator.
That was slick
Beautifully done. You feel the love and interest the curators have for their work. Very inspiring and interesting.
How very fascinating--the making and the dating of this lovely object. An excellent and interesting presentation. [Did the detectorist do a "gold dance" when he discovered the piece? What a find.]
This video is sublime. Loved the thorough explanation!
This is utterly fascinating. Really love this!!
Absolutely fascinating! Thank you.
Thank you for sharing this and the video is fun and educational.
Hello 👋 how are you doing?
Fantastic video! Wonderful information. Can’t wait for more with this lady. Thankyou!
Absolutely extraordinary workmanship.
Of workpeopleship, surely, you mean! (Hear at about 4:47.)
(Lol.)
It’s exquisite. It really takes my breath away.
Tremendous explanation of the process!
Thank you for sharing this, I am sure someone who wanted to impress the king would have something like that made in the hopes of being seen with it. Charles
I really enjoyed this upload. Your research really brings out the history in an object. I think your corner is in very safe hands.
Great video!! Thank You for this!
LOVE THIS!! MORE PLEASE!!
What an exciting discovery! Thanks for presenting it to us. Is it possible that this object was made as a tournament prize? Were there any tournaments in Warwickshire around those dates? I know that Henry was a big fan of such sporting events. The high style and low quality of the piece, the use of the King's horse's barding symbol, and the love the Tudors had for badges and whatnot of all kinds makes me think this is possible.
That piece is so lovely - what a find!!!
Truly fascinating! 🙌🔥👑
So did the gentleman who found the object receive any recompense?
I feel as if it was a smile, a thank you and a hardy pat on the back for handing over this beautiful gold, expensive necklace.
Compensation is always paid for finding treasure, if the find was declared properly.
He will get half the value of the object, split with the landowner.
@@tcm81I would have said I found it in my backyard.
This content is superb. I’m glad to be alive when this can be seen by the world.
one of the best channels in all of youtube
Wonderful presentation! Really enjoying all these videos- this one in particular really smacks of a Wes Anderson scene with her posturing, way of speaking and all the books and their colors in the background. Was waiting for Jason Schwartzman to pop his head on the frame and make a comment!
Fascinating! So beautiful. I'd love to work in a museum 😊
I love this channel, i always learn stuff. In regards to "dating artifacts, at my age thats all i CAN date, artifacts!
I’m wondering did the man who found this sell it to the museum or was he obligated to turn it over to them?
1:34
Yes, he'll have been both obligated and compensated (unless the reward was waived).
It's gold so it's considered Treasure under the law. He was required to report it (as he did). If a museum wants to acquire it, there's a committee that comes up with a market value, which, I believe, the finder and landowner split.
Silly him.
I would have found it difficult to relinquish it.😢
@@madelainepetrin1430 So you can hoard it away from anyone else and be a greedy little turd? Better in the public eye or being studied.
I love this video, thanks for sharing!
🟧♾️🟧 Excellent commentary and video production: thanks for enhancing my historical curiosity of this particular find, its provenance, and high craftsmanship. 🟧♾️🟧
Thank you for your good work with this. I will definitely be keeping up with any updates as new information is gleaned concerning this most exquisite, national treasure. 🏵️💎🏵️
Wow 😍 I'm waiting as well.
This was highly interesting, and you did a perfect job in presenting these matters. It made me curious indeed as to what you had to present on other subjects. I'm from the Netherlands, but I guess I'm welcome as a visitor to this channel too. Previously I watched a video on the Rosetta stone(s), which I also found highly interesting, so you're probably in very good company.
What a fabulous video!
Fascinating! I wonder why such a necklace was made and for whom? I’m guessing it was to commemorate their marriage perhaps? Was it maybe a p prize from their wedding tournament or the one held for Prince Henry who didn’t live long? I love this kind of mystery!
Waiting for this
Thank you for the detailed explanation of your process. Given the current association with a horse and the size of the chain is it possible this is an ultra fancy (for a horse) shield to be worn on the horses' forehead or even neck? It might not be fancy enough for a royal but perhaps good enough to make a statement about a richly caparisoned horse. It also appears to be a locket. Is there any idea what it may have contained? Perhaps something pleasant smelling for both rider and horse. This also may explain why it fell off and lay buried for centuries. The rider did not know where it fell.
Wow what a beautiful piece
Beautiful lady, beautiful accent, clear speech, excellent story!
Wonderful! Thanks so much. Is there a way to look at the trace elements found in the gold and compare those to the other objects known to have been made for Henry's court? I seem to recall that this method was used here in California to identify the source of silver in some flatware from the 1860s.
A simpler explanation could be you hold my heart in your hand.😊
you forgot to mention the finder weighted 4 years for it to be assessed and given the reward 🤣🤣
Better to wait than to be given the price of a 20th century forgery.
Fascinating ❤
Outstanding
Extraordinary! 🙏
The heart reminds me of the heart locket Henry gave Anne Boleyn when he was courting her. Anne was a big advocate of reading and books and she understood the importance of literacy in England’s future. Is it possible this item may have been made by the same person who made the Boleyn heart?
Hello 👋 how are you doing?
@@Godwinpounds4333 how are you doing?
The Anne Boleyn heart would be a replica of this heart he was with Kathrine first and if he gave her this at an engagement
@@flipflopy8538 "You can fool some of the people, some of the time," the people yelled "King's whore," and "great whore," or just "whore," at Anne's coronation progress, regardless if you put a crown on it. The tramp was Henry.
Amazing. 👏👏
8:53 On the back it looks like there are two hinges, one for the thin piece of metal still there, and one for a missing back piece? (to make a locket, the overall rounded shape also indicates this) Or is that just the way they attached the two pieces together? Looks like a mystery to me!
Just staggering that someone could’ve found something like this object metal detecting
Imagine what's sitting on the ocean floor waiting to be discovered. 😮😮
My hobby is metal detecting and yes there have been some fabulous things found over the years. 😀.
Great video.
As a collector of antique jewelry I can tell you that the hand motif was not only popular in the tudor period but also the Georgian and Victorian.
Hello?
Due to the early heat in Korea recently, cherry blossoms and other flowers have bloomed and fallen early.
Also, yesterday and today, it has rained nationwide and become cold.
It's already Thursday this week. I hope you have good health and good things happen in the remaining week.
Thank you very much. ^^
What a find💎‼️ Couple questions: how did it end up in a field and how much is it worth⁉️
That was fascinating 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
“Toujours,” or just until he discarded her. This is heartbreaking.
Lovely video . Any one else notice that the back of the pendent has two hinges , either there is bits missing or was reused elsewhere.
Just take it out to a nice restaurant and pay lots of compliments…all should go well 👍🏽
Sorry, couldn’t resist it.
Very interesting subject, thanks for posting 👍🏽
Thi is sooo beautiful. Imagine what other gorgeous jewellery they had
i don't know who to go to for this but could you do some research on towie balls they were found in Glaschul Hill, Towie, Aberdeenshire, Scotland they're dated to 5000 years ago, i think they were used in agriculture and other mechanisms there should be evidence of rope wear on the stones, there is most certainly more of such beautiful proto-celtic artifacts around northern ireland, scotland and proberably all over the british isles i find these things facinating and could give some insight as to how stonehenge and other monolithic stones were moved at that time.
Are the dark spots on the white cuff supposed to mimic ermine? Was ermine restricted to certain classes in the Tudor era?
Yes, it would be ermine. Ermine was a sign of the nobility since at least the 13th century in England. In this case it is the _Manus Dei_, the Hand of God, so denoting his Lordship. I am not sure why the British Museum staff did not know about the symbol that has been used since Constantine the Great. Though it looks like Father Christmas to modern eyes.
Was there any relevance to the location (the field) in which it was found? Are there any records of former houses or churches? Would it have been on a public road of the time, where the jewelry could have been lost? Were there any other findings from the area? Lots of additional factors. And was the artifact photographed in position it was found before being removed. to determine if there may have been other factors that were initially overlooked. I have to say I'm intrigued when a new piece comes to light that period of Tudor Englamd
Boy, I’ll bet they’ll be thrilled at your attempts to teach them their jobs! After all, I’m sure they never thought of asking any questions before doing their research (EYE ROLL). Seriously, they know what they’re doing and don’t need help from random people on the internet, and who probably aren’t educated in their field of expertise.
Could the heart have been decoration on the horses that was salvaged and added to a chain?
I wonder who owned the property where this was found in the 1500s. It's very possible they were supporters of Katherine and still believed the kings marriage was valid so instead of melting it down they had it buried for their own safety when Henry ordered everything of Katherine destroyed.
The "TOUJOURS" motif is rather ironic considering later events.
Bit of a stretch saying that the hand motif was made by goldsmiths that new and or read the books by the publisher...it is simply a hand (not a closed fist) curled to hold a sign, flowers and or the motif entwined letters on a heart.
I need to wear my glasses more often. I read the title as "how to date an architect."
History is incredible.
Hahaha! I thought this was one of those "Guy marries his car" videos at first - which is why I nearly skipped it!
Are there hinges on the heart (pictured at 3:58)? Was it meant to open, like a locket? Or is that how they attached the back piece? And something I can't quite tell when the object is turned over, was it meant to be concave? Or has it been damaged and bent by being in the ground for so long?
Who will be answering your questions? The experts who make these videos don’t have time to do that!
@@voraciousreader3341 In the past other friendly visitors or experts have replied to me and explained more about the artifacts or cultures being described.
Sometimes people who have seen the object on display, or similar objects, can answer the questions. Sometimes friendly historians or experts do stop by and answer.
Besides, it's not a bad thing to ask questions. It's always good to be curious and let people know real folks are watching these and trying to learn more. We should all strive to be life long learners.
To be honest I noticed the hinge like elements on both the outer edges of the reverse / concave side of the pendant, and was further curious that there seems to be a little ‘key’ that detached the gloved fist from the chain. I also noticed just how the chain itself is similar in construction to chainmail included with rudimentary medieval armour, again another reference to defence and protection (of love), adding to the romantic symbolism of the piece as a whole. I’m wondering if anyone from HRP are able to shed light on the object, given the expertise the Tudor historians within that organisation are able to collectively provide.
@@krisbrennan83 Good eye! I was thinking about something I had seen the in Victoria & Albert collection where people would 'lock' a promise inside a gem for display.
And it wasn't always romantic, it was sometimes where a person would preserve a symbolic item like a medical wish, an athletic goal, or a tenuous legal agreement (i.e. a grant of land, a position of office).
I can't help but wonder if the gloved hand isn't a gauntlet- typical power imagery for the time? Just amazing it was found in a field! This, like the various hordes, quickly buried yet never recovered, is another story we will never know the complete history and emotional nuance of...
The hand emerging from a cloud is a symbol that has been around since at least the 9th century, representing God's hand acting in the world. In this case, showing the supposed approval of God for the marriage of Henry and Katherine. The Manus Dei clearly emerging from a cloud with a crown is seen above the head of Charles the Bald, who is flanked by two popes in an illustration c. 870 in the Bibliothèque nationale de France: manuscript Latin 1141, fol. 2v.
I think it was a choker. The real question is how it got where it was found & is it actually broken, because I've never seen it in one piece.
Has Katherine of Aragon’s jewelry collection been researched for clues?
It sure sounds like it: 12:46
@Judith Domanque - I don’t mean to be insulting, but do you really think they’re so stupid that they wouldn’t have thought of that, right away?? It’s so obvious!!! These are some of the best experts in their field on the planet, right?? Or they wouldn’t be employed at the British Museum.
If something like this DID at one time belong to Katherine HOW on Earth did it wind up lost or missing from her jewelry collection? I can't believe it is something she would have just dropped or 'lost along the way'.
Also, another question: What about the hinges on the locket? I can clearly see what look to be hinges on either side of the pendant.
She actually says it likely didn't belong to Katherine of Aragon. It was made to celebrate their marriage, but probably for a relative. Likely, whoever lived at the local manor: which makes the fact that it was lost in a field (or perhaps intentionally buried there after Henry's divorce) much more plausible.
I would immediately know this was real, and as a history buff I would have had a very DIFFICULT time letting this go.
The analysis of this piece is absolutely FASCINATING.
Very Cool.
For my fellow Americans, 350 grams is just over twelve and a third ounces- quite heavy for a necklace, at least nowadays.
Thank you 🇺🇸
It just looks heavy even without knowing the exact numbers! I was surprised when she said the jewelry they knew that Henry & Katherine actually wore was even HEAVIER!
Thanks so much for the captivating story! Could you tell me please, where can I see the object in reality? When I went to the British museum approximately 2-3 weeks ago, I was told at the information desk that it's not on display and not in the museum at all. Thank you!
That’s frustrating
While it is frustrating, I imagine now that they concluded all their tests, it won't be that long before it will be put on display. It will bring lots of visitors, so surely they won't lock it in safe somewhere.
@@maearcher4721 I hope you're right, and the pendant won't end up in some private collection. I was surprised to know that it was found 4 years ago and still hasn't been shown to the public, and that the people at the info desk told me that "it was a newspapers' rumour" about the pendant being in the BM. Frustrating and a bit disturbing
@@feldmarshalphoto As the finder went and declared it to the authorities he would of been recompensed. The find then becomes property of the state and resides in the British Museum. Once it has become a museum piece (called, accessioned) it well nigh impossible to get rid of!
That's cool. Hey when will the British Museum give back the Elgin Marbles???
Doesn’t the cuff on the “hand” (or glove) being ermine signify royalty as well?
It's the hand that hold's the heart!
The first step is the hardest, you have to talk to it and ask it out to coffee or an event of mutual interest.
Beautiful
what an spectacular find!! and amazing identification process, well explained too
I haven’t watched the vid yet, but here are my top tips from my own personal experience:
(a) Firstly, be open minded.
(b) Secondly, don’t care about what others say. Be prepared for looks - just ignore them.
(c) Don’t bring up the past. Artifacts have lots of baggage, and you should have known that before you got involved. If you can’t handle it, then you should probably not be dating artifacts.
(d) Don’t compare your artifact with other artifacts. Some are more famous than others, some are older, some are bigger, etc. Date an artifact because you’re into it, not because of how it compares with others.
(e) You can date an artifact, but you can never truly own one. This applies to all relationships, really, but perhaps it is something we tend to forget when dating artifacts.
(f) Finally, never put too much stress on the fact you’re dating an artifact: treat it as any other relationship.
Sir George Throckmorton lived in the Warwickshire area during Henry the 8th's time. So, could this object have belonged to someone in his family, if it is guessed to belong to a member of the upperclass that had ties to the tudors?
Compliment the artifact on it's fashion, ask it if it's seeing anyone and if it wants to hang out. Take it to a nice restaurant. Be interested in the artifact, it's opinions and what it has to say.
Would the chain, because of its value and the fact it could have been shortened link by link have been a monetary prize with the heart just being a token indicating the even??
Perhaps at a joust to celebrate the coronation, in the month of festivities after it (24th of June to 24th of July). There is a description of a tourney the day after the wedding, but the prizes did not mention a chain and pendant.
"The following day the aforementioned defending team, lady Pallas’s scholars, presented themselves before the king ready for the tourney. All on horseback and armed from head to foot they each had one side of their armor-skirts and horse-trappings made of white velvet embroidered with gold roses and other devices, and the other made of green velvet embroidered with gold pomegranates. On their headpieces each wore a plume of gold damask.
At the same time the other side rode in, the aforementioned eight knights fully armed and dressed, like their mounts, in green satin embroidered with fine golden bramble branches. Following them, blowing horns, came a number of men dressed as foresters or gamekeepers in green cloth, with caps and hose to match, who arranged a set like a park with white and green fencing around it. Inside this paddock were fallow deer and artificial trees, bushes, ferns, and so forth. Once set up before the queen the paddock gates were unlocked and the deer ran out into the palace grounds. Greyhounds were then let loose which killed the deer, the bodies of which were then presented to the queen and the assembled ladies by the above-mentioned knights.
Crocheman, who had brought in the golden lance the previous day, then declared that his knights were the servants of the goddess Diana and whilst they had been indulging in their pastime of hunting had received news that lady Pallas’s knights had come into these parts to perform feats of arms. Thereupon they had left off the chase and come hither to encounter these nights and to fight with them for the love of the ladies.
He added that if lady Pallas’s knights vanquished them or forced them to leave the field of battle then they would receive the deer that had been killed and the greyhounds that slew them. But if Diana’s knights overpowers their opponents they were to be given the swords of those knights and nothing more.
Hearing this, the queen and her ladies asked the king for his advice on the matter. The king, thinking that perhaps there was some grudge between the two parties and believing that to grant the request might lead to some unpleasantness, decided not to consent to these terms. Instead, to defuse the situation, it was decided that both parties should fight the tourney but that only a limited number of strokes would be permitted.
This was done and the two sides then left the field. The jousts then came to an end and the prizes were awarded to each man according to his deserts."
This is fascinating. I love this. Did the man who found it get any money?