I always thought of Mass Effect 2 being a fine game, but definitely setting the precedent for where the series would go. While I do agree that the crew getting kidnapped is a contrivance (especially since you don't really even feel their absence) it feels like the playthrough took a turn in a random direction and doesn't payoff because presumably it's setting stuff up for the third game.
In a meta aspect, ME2 was a veritable crossroads for Bioware, and the game itself feels like a metaphor for their company's transition from independent developer of third party IP to making their own games under the umbrella of a bigger company. Coming off the EA acquisition, trying to make their games more cinematic and palatable for a general audience... it's all these aspects of their past trying to mix with their goals of the future like oil and vinegar. The result is a mixture that seems pleasant when taken all at once for face value, but when examined closely is revealed to be bits of brilliance mixed in with mediocrity. People love the series for a myriad of reasons and dissecting it is a hobby in and of itself.
I don’t think there’s a single game like ME2 that I love so much yet I also agree with the majority of a 5 hour video essay criticizing almost every aspect of it. It really shows the strength of ME2’s character writing, since it can carry almost the entire experience on its back.
As a Pen 'n Paper Roleplayer with over 30 years of experience, in addition to being a Gamemaster who ran a Campaign that last 16 years, I can safely say one thing with total confidence- Roleplaying games are NOT MOVIES. So, yes, I totally agree with your take that having Cutscenes where Shepard is not involved are a serious misstep. However, most Game Devs are wanna-be Film creators & most people don't even know what makes a Roleplaying Game (Both PnP & cRPG) a unique form of entertainment- Player Agency. Giving the Player information that the Character cannot know, is something films do for an external viewer. Not something done for a character inside that story.
I’d have to disagree on your belief that Grunt has no reason to take part in the suicide mission until after you get his loyalty. Grunt, in his introduction, states that he doesn’t particularly care what happens to him, and that all that matters to him is fighting and finding out who the strongest is with the dialogue implying that his own life does not matter to him. I will agree that his reasoning is better after you earn his loyalty, but I’d argue that the point of loyalty missions is that the character is now devoted to completing the suicide mission.
I think it's even stronger than that. From the very first conversation, Grunt makes it clear that he does not accept the motivations Okeer imprinted upon him. He doesn't know who he is, or why he should care about the Krogan, the galaxy, or even himself. All he knows is that it feels good to fight. Through his interactions with Shepard he's learning about himself both by exploring the imprinted memories and through seeing Shepard's example ("that funny human thing you do"). So, before Shepard becomes his battlemaster, giving purpose to his anger by finding him the biggest, most worthy foe, he chooses to journey with Shepard because it's his way of discovering himself. Besides, why would a suicide mission bother him in the first place? He was bread in a tank and has already rejected Okeer's motivations. Why would a motivation towards self-preservation be any different?
I think its even more stronger of a case when you realize a Suicide mission is exactly the thing grunt literally lives for; And is even more proven in Mass effect 3 when you get his mission in that game, he enjoys the danger and thrill of overcoming impossible odds.
@@lightsinadarkworld2013 That, and he knew Shepard was on the station as soon as he landed. And got to watch him rush over the bridge to him. So the surprise had time to wear off, on top of the more important things happening.
@@Majima_Nowhere Liara also was directly responsible for saving Shepard and, if you're in a relationship with her, also immediately goes in for the kiss upon reuniting, so I don't actually think Shepard's return is really being brushed under the rug. The only one with an underwhelming reaction to Shepard's return is Tali imo
By the ending of your Mass Effect 1 playthrough your Shepard were literally build up to be Vader to Ambassador Udina (Emperor Palpatine) as Udina made his grand speach about taking power after the death of the council. In the second game however, when Shepard and Udina met in your playthrough, it was as if that conversation never happend. Maybe Udina got a grip of himself and understood what a super villain he was turning into or something… It must have been a storyline they dropped in the second installment.
Nah it'd be unrealistic for the council raises to somehow not have a chain of command and line of succession and let us set up a human council. Udina was lost in the sauce.
About the world building, consequences and storytelling - The space emails and messages you could receive after completing missions and making choices really helped add a lot of flavour and essence to the world. A great example of low effort, high impact writing!
And that's because you're a smart person. ME1 is the best game in the franchise. People who say ME2 is the best are smoking crack. I absolutely loved Cerberus in ME1, and was so hyped that they were the primary focus of 2, and I love Harbinger, but ME1 is a straight up masterpiece. The combat in one has a million more options in regards to playstyles. The jankiness is part of the fun, and I rarely if ever say that about games.
And the ability to CROUCH! Which was amazing to have, especially on harder difficulties, and helped not having to habitually use the wonky cover system. Can’t believe they took it outta the franchise.. I don’t feel the same way with Me2 as I did with Me1. I’m also new to the franchise, and currently running the series. I’m halfway through 2 now. I’m dissatisfied
@@Madmike772 Yeah, Private Sessions, the filthy casual, mentions that he's playing on "no higher than normal." No wonder his opinions on combat are retarded, he's not even playing on Insanity, which is the intended experience. You don't understand or appreciate this series until you're playing on Insanity.
ME1 was a clunky mess, imo. Great worldbuilding and story, but the actual gameplay is so mediocre-to-outright-terrible that I can't stomach a full playthrough. They did the companions so poorly, (aside from rex) that it's hard to get invested in the story. ME2 has actually fun gameplay, (which is kinda important in a game) and they decided to focus on making the companions great. It took me from being a person who can't even be bothered to finish ME1, to being a person who wanted to 100% ME2. There's a reason why ME2 is the most beloved entry in the series.
I never fell for the beginner's trap that is the aftermath of the Normandy invasion. I do everything beforehand, including getting all the upgrades, plus Tali and Legion's loyalty missions since you're allowed 2 missions before the crew is doomed to die. So when the 'choice' came up, I went immediately to the relay, even Miranda acknowledged that we are as ready as possible. But I can see how it's emotional manipulation to other people.
Saaame, you gotta deliberately play it in the order like he did to get it so wrong tbh. It is nonsensical progressing the story with so many loyalty missions still to do.
So you get two missions? Because I can't find any info to confirm how many missions you can do. I've read even doing one mission after your crew is taken then some die, I've read if you do one mission they all die. You can do two missions and they'll all be fine but more than that and they all die. even if you get EDI telling you the reaper iff is ready, if you talk to legion once before you hit the galaxy map the game will delay it so you can do legions loyalty. But I want to do legions and the overlord dlc before the final mission. Because its really annoying how the illusive man sends you mail even if you blow up the collector base and cut ties with Cerberus.
@@cjvaye99 I can confirm from my own experience playing through the series about a dozen times (about once a year I fire up the trilogy) that you get two missions after the abductions before you're losing crew members. If you've completed everything else before doing the Reaper IFF, then Legion's loyalty mission opens up immediately upon activating him. If you have anything else you haven't done, the dialogue for his loyalty mission doesn't come until your second conversation with him. So, the two mission window exists so that - no matter how you're playing the game - you have the opportunity to do Legion's loyalty mission without it affecting your crew in the Collector Base. Any further delay and the bodies start to drop.
I'll never understand why they removed so many combat options from ME2... And people praise it from some unruly reason. It's a terribly shallow, clunky (even more so than ME1), repetitive and boring combat system.
@@UsernameGeriit's praised because the gameplay is an improvement, despite the lack of options. Quality over quantity. The combat system is far from boring and requires more out of you than ME 1. ME 1, on casual, requires nothing from the player, and it feels like you are supposed to use the squad commands system, but in the main quests they feel mostly inconvenient. In ME 2, it's a lot easier to position but positioning is a lot less needed. And complexity doesn't make an RPG system better, Skyrim has a lot to its skilltrees but I care about a whole lot less than a game like DA 2 with a lot more limited skilltrees. I find ME 1's combat ok at best but aged poorly and I don't think a lot of stuff in the system helps the fact that the base game is ok to mediocre.
The thing about the Invasion of the Normandy mission that I find hilarious and interesting is how much it plays out like a first date for Joker and EDI. I remember replaying ME2 a lot back in the day and on one playthrough I noticed how Edi starts calling him Jeff by the end of the game. I theorized that in ME3 Edi would somehow get a body, her and Joker would end up dating...which ended up happening.
The entire Mass Effect 2 main story should’ve been a large scale DLC for Mass Effect 2, similar to Oblivion’s Shivering Isles or Skyrim’s Dragonborn The actual Mass Effect 2 should’ve been what Mass Effect 3 was, running around gathering resources, technology & allies for the Reaper War Then Mass Effect 3 should’ve been massive galactic war. And the games shouldn’t have been rushed with
The fuck you talking about, ME3 was ALL war. We DO spend the first two games gathering resources for it, hence the war assets system incorporating ALL your previous decisions, such as Cerberus activities here in ME2, and the Rachni in ME1. We got exactly what we needed, and the main plot of ME2 wouldn't have fit in a DLC.
I feel like ME2 improved on the characterization of the squadmates at the cost of Shepard's characterization. ME1 had squadmates basically functioning as lore fountains with Shep giving their opinion on everything, while ME2 had squadmates giving their opinions on things as Shep asked leading, formulaic questions. I wish they could give both good characterization in the same game.
I felt the opposite way. Shepard's ability to form friendships with a lot of these characters, and to participate in their stories, fleshed him out as a human being. His friendship with Thane in particular, where you can relate to him as a fellow killer and discuss his past. Same with Samara. Jack and Miranda don't offer this at all, but you can find bits if it with Garrus and Tali.
Ugh I hate Arrival. It sets up all the problems with ME3 when Bioware had an opportunity to pivot away from "All out Reaper War" which is my main problem with ME3's story. The Reapers were set up to be godlike in their power. Fighting them at all makes no sense and basically ensures the writers had to pull a magical space maguffin out their asses in order to account for the premise.
@Blood in the Water I really like your idea of seeing the reapers slowly encroaching on the galaxy, while the rest of the galexy tries to find a way to stop this force of nature. I find the reaper war in me 3 was too quick at the start. I know they wanted to have a war is hell naritive, but I think seeing the reapers just paint the galaxy from one end would really hammer home how hopeless the situation really is.
You've kicked my nostalgia in the nuts, ouch! That said, I really enjoyed ploughing through the video; top notch presentation. It's a strange realisation to see most of my problems with ME3 actually starting with this game, which I've been praising for years. Can't wait to see your conclusion to the trilogy!
2:30:59 I have to disagree with you there, bud. The Collectors being Protheans fits with the Lovecraftian themes. One of Lovecraft's central themes is corruption of civilizations and races. The problem was how Mass Effect 2 and 3 handled the Reapers, but the Collectors fit in well as horrifying figures in the Mass Effect universe.
They fit even better without being the protheans (and the retcons that came with that), so When the corruption is made into ‘cybernetics and inbreeding lol’ it lessens mystery and impact for very little gain
It's so wierd how, in the late 00's and early 10's, cover-based shooting was such a popular mechanic that it even infected genres other than shooters. Then, almost overnight, the entire industry turned against it.
Maybe I'm just weird, but I actually liked the scanning. Put on a video like this, kick back, scan as much as possible for a couple of hours when I don't feel like doing anything involved.
Scanning was something to do while watching listen to podcasts and the like but then again I was the kind of person who when finding out about scanning and realizing I could go to Sol right off the back I went to probe Uranus. It was worth sending that probe.
Proving how pointless the mechanic did. I wish they just gave you upgradeable materials at the end of each mission, call it “Cerberus funds,” or something. Help upgrade level pacing
The pinnacle of state of the art, modern research techniques! : Using a hammerhead hovercraft and pressing the 'research' button over a glowing circle!
Love this perspective. Particularly appreciate your commentary on how bizarre the heel-turn was for our soft spoken academic Liara. It's like the writers got their wires crossed and made Lilliana part 2 for some awful reason. I always felt this but could never quite express it. Mass effect 2 was more polished but always felt a bit emptier, thank you for taking the time to articulate how the series changed.
"ME2 had colour-coded endings, just like ME3." In fact, even ME1 had colour-coded endings. The last screen with Shepard posing in front of a planet? Yeah, that can be either bright blue or dark red, depending on your morality score. But I'm not quite sure why TIM's star changes colours when ME3 confirmed it's an actual, real star and not some fancy screensaver.
i think the difference is that ME1 and ME2 had an actual ending with a climax and it was someone spouting exposition before you picked which color ending slide you get. It was more of a subtle nod towards the big choices you made in the game. It was a note on the ending, not the ending itself.
Man I must’ve really loved ME1 , because this is reminding me of all the things I hated about ME2. I think if it wasn’t widely considered a great trilogy, I wouldn’t have fought through it. I hated scanning, I hated that they force-fed me all these ally’s I don’t give 2 shits about and still don’t. It’s like I did everything needed to save a crew at the collector base and didn’t even really care about them. ME1 let me pick my team. ME2 forced them on me. If I didn’t like an ME1 squad mate, I just never picked them.
I always prefer Mass Effect 1, the world building was great. Even the combat is ok but I like the rpg elments and felt 2 cut too much out. Some of the characters changed too much in 2 and I hated how they kill of Commander at the start of the game. Thank you Private Sessions for the in depth video on Mass Effect 2
When ME2 first came out, I was the only one in my friend group that hated it. I couldn't articulate why in such a convincing way, but my points boiled down to: The Shepard I played in ME1 would never work with Cerberus, and that the ending of ME2 was so unsatisfying that ME3 would have to be a masterpiece to justify it. I wish I had this video in 2010
Absolutely agree about Liara, I was so sad to see the change they made with her, as much as I still loved her I was sad that the Liara from ME1 was just gone and the voice change they made Ali Hillis do didnt do her any service either. Her behavior towards Shepard also shocked me when I was playing the game for the first time and the DLC wasnt out yet, it was so surprising that she didnt come with us and how little time she made for us as well.
The personality switch was so off to me that i couldn't tell if it was bad writing, good writing in the sense she was fooling us all along, or to take it at face value of a good girl gone bad
So I’ve always low key hated garus becoming space punisher. Like it kinda fits I guess but it seems like the more likely path would be for him to have become a specter himself. They could still do the cool nickname and have Shepard tracking down an upcoming specter rumored to be almost as good as Shepard. The reveal is still cool and it would be more interesting to see garus literally try to fill Shepard a shoes. That’s a much more interesting arc than “boy I wish I could shoot more dude, then geez shooting lots of dudes is hard, then geez preparing my people for the reaper invasion is hard.” Dude is the Christopher multisanti of this game. Also Miranda being like the first mate kinda blows, garus would be the better fit. He’s snarky yet professional he was made to deliver exposition
@@darthdragonborn1552 it's because of how inconsistent it is. Renegade is supposed to be pragmatic leader to whom the end justifies the means, while paragon is a heroic idealist leading by example, but they've just clumped all evil/asshole/stupid options into the renegade, making him into edgy and stupid asshole. A lot of renegade options is simply being mean for no gains whatsoever, and just killing people for no reason. It just flip flops between pragmatic leader and an violent idiot with anger issues.
As someone who played paragon the first time through and has a hard time replaying some games, I appreciate a serious take on the renegade side for once.
Whether the Devs intended it or not, the beginning of ME2 tells us exactly what is happening- ME1 is Dead. Something that LOOKS like it is being brought to life & put in its place.
So in a recent playthrough of ME2 I got to the collector ship and was reminded of something you said in this video. You mention that it was somehow a 'leap of logic' that your shepard figures out they're targeting earth(or that the squadmates do), but it might just be an issue of which squadmates you have. I had Mordin and Tali with me and Mordin makes a comment on seeing how many pods "They could depopulate every colony in the Terminus Systems and still have room"(which if you actually check the colonies, is in the millions, if not more), and then Tali states "They're going after Earth", which is a lot less of a leap of logic than you make it sound. There are way more pods than the targets they've been going after, to a significant degree, and since they're collecting humans, that really only leaves one option as to where they'd be going, doesn't it? There aren't any other human colonies they could be going to with that many pods ready for use.
Furthermore, if you do Mordin's loyalty mission before the collector ship, then you get some additional insight on why the collectors are targeting humanity the way they do.
3:36:05 the morality system breaks down. period. it's extremely flawed, they bundled cold and calculating bastards with seething, brainless bully maniacs as both Renegade. even Jade Empire did dual morality system better, because it featured in-lore commentary of how bullies think they follow the Way of the Closed Fist but in reality they misunderstand it completely. Paragon/Renegade system isn't even slightly self-aware and most choices in all 3 games suffer extremely from that lack of depth.
I agree with alot and disagree with a fair amount of your points, but me1 set up the future so perfectly then the 2nd game doesn't move the story forward and undoes it, somewhat, then the 3rd clunkily trues to wrap it up before its ready. I wish I had a billion dollars to buy the franchise and remake it
I'm definitely in the camp of people who have loved, loved, loved Mass Effect 2 since it came out, and continue to love it through repeated playthroughs. I typically play through the trilogy about once a year. I don't think I'd say I overlooked its glaring flaws - and besides a few quibbles, I don't disagree with really any of your points - and more just accepted them because the FEEL of the game is just so good. My two criticisms of the first game (and I'm with you that it's a masterpiece of world building) were that the endless driving and cookie cutter missions were a slog, and that the crew interactions showed incredible potential but didn't quite deliver. It's clear with how Mass Effect 2 plays that Bioware focused ALL of their energy on these specific areas, and they knocked them out of the park. Yeah, Jacob isn't satisfying and Garrus is criminally underwritten, but from Joker & EDI being a comedy duo, to Mordin's insatiable energy, to Grunt's endearing mix of skullduggery and philosophy (he's the only Krogan in the franchise who ever asks WHY they rage and fight), and of course to Tali just being the cutest thing in the galaxy Bioware delivered on making the game just feel great. It's inescapably charming, from start to finish, and for me - and I would guess for the multitude - it's this charm that whitewashes everything else. We love it so much that everything is viewed through rose-coloured glasses, not just in retrospect, but from first sight. That's the lightning they caught in a bottle here. And yeah, that's precisely the lightning they didn't catch with ME3, even as I still find so much joy in playing through it, due to my love for the series (and some character arcs that conclude in a truly gorgeous way in that game. The strength of the world building in the first game was so strong that they were able to coast on shoddy writing and wacky choices for almost two more games, before it finally came off the rails. So, in a way, that Mass Effect 2 is held up as the crown jewel is itself a testament to just how fantastic the first game was. Mass Effect built such an incredible, lush, rich galaxy that they could make a game with so, so many lazy, sloppy, or just plain bad choices and still couldn't miss. Outstanding video. I'm so glad I came across it a year later.
@@MistahJay7 I A)Don't know why she had to pose. Like, what is the rest of them gonna do? Samara isn't with us anymore. End of story. B)I think that it would have been cool to see more of Morinth like asari. Would be such a cool thing for the most loved and diplomatically successful race to have this dark side of these viscious space succubi out there. And with how many Banshee there are in the 3rd game... kinda feels like it could have actually been a thing.
@@christopherhartford5066 Right? Her posing never really made sense for my renegade Dhepard. Like they would I give a shit what the crew thinks wether I have Samara or Morinth. Especially characters Like Jack. Like they care LOL Im so disappointed that Morinth just gets so little dialogue of her own as I think she is much more interesting over Samara.
@@MistahJay7 I just don't see it. Samara to me is one of the best asari characters. She is such a tortured soul. Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry for Morinth in a way, she got delt a bad hand. But she had a choice to make and she deserves no sympathy or mercy. She doesn't better anything in the galaxy. Samara is like second best boy Thane as she fights to better the galaxy by removing horrible people who choose evil. I find Samara's sacrifice inspiring. I find nothing inspiring about Morinth. She is the exact opposite and encapsulates selfishness. She is a zero sum character because she creates voids where ever she goes. Morinth actively makes the space around her lesser and it's partly by choice.
@@MistahJay7 I hope you take this as I just simply disagree with your opinion but nothing more and a basic explination of why I have a different one. Because at the same time, the implications of Morinth as a character and what that means for the asari is just as interesting in it's own way. I actively save Samara and her daughters in the third game even though the Reapers could still turn them. But they try to add to the galaxy and their community instead of take. Morith actively chose to take only for herself. That's just not interesting to me as a character. Meanwhile Samara giving up literally everything to stop that darkness and the pain she bares... That is something I am drawn to and I find intriguing.
So, this video (and your channel in general) has been on my “must watch” list for a while now, and I finally got around to seeing it, and I’ve gotta day, this is amazing. I was going to avoid making a video on Mass Effect since it’s a bit over saturated, but you’ve reminded me how much good discussion is left on the subject. I started with ME2 and haven’t spent most time with the first game, so I never noticed many of your criticisms, but they definitely make sense after hearing them. I feel like I’ve seen EA’s “better Mass Effect” with the Dead Space games by this point (even the Dead Space “reapers” are done better). 10/10 video, I will have to find another slow day at work to check out your other ones.
I totally agree on the Dead Space thing. While it doesn't reach the same peaks in quality as Mass Effect (1), it's a much more consistent and thus much more enjoyable overall experience. Never once playing the Dead Space trilogy did I ever feel utterly flabbergasted, baffled, disappointed and shocked to see just how poorly the story is folding out in front of me.
At around 1:40:00... Regarding the confusing dialogue with Ashley and lack of motivations for Shep to work with Cerberus.... My reaction as a player was "... How did me dying translate to a betrayal?" It is also kind of interesting as Ashley was the one more inclined toward more anti-xeno ideas. It would be easier to accept her getting fed up with the alliance and going to work for cerberus to protect human interests rather than play palace guard. I honestly have to wonder if the original script for the game and voice acting for many of the characters was done with a generally different plot whereby Shepherd joined Cerberus because edgy heroes were in vogue. But then someone had to stop and inform everyone that... Maybe ... Some people wouldn't want to join cerberus... And so the intro is not an intro, but a hasty attempt to justify why we made the choice to join cerberus as ... You know... Players who wouldn't do that. Or perhaps there was some plan for many different ways ME2 could have gone and the cerberus arc was just one of two or three... Then the development cost estimates came in and here we are. Perhaps we were supposed to have fewer characters pertaining to our original choices, but who needs squad tactics when you can deploy a whole platoon of characters? I always felt like a good chunk of the game was missing, and Ashley's line here makes me wonder if it was recorded as part of script proposals when her actress was part of ME1 and they just kind of shoehorned it in... Or something.
If we consider how half the writing team was replaced mid development, it could also be some parts were unfinished and the new writers had to work quickly to patch things up.
I like your comment, it provoked some thoughts in me. Regarding the idea of a different plot in the beginning of the development. Virmire survivor's appearence is indeed like from another world, or from another script, their aftermath letter included. They don't care about the colonists as if they don't exist. In the letter both say how they had seen so many people die on Horizon... what? Noone died. They were taken away. As though the original idea of the encounter included no paralysis bugs and no kidnappings. The impossible survival of the VS when they can't even fight back (remember, the Collectors came specifically for them, the VS was literally the first person paralysed, but, well, remove the stupid inconsistent cutscene from the game, and it will make more sense) wasn't, in fact, impossible. What if the VS, perhaps along with a military unit, was actively fighting back the "Collectors", who murdered everyone on sight? And they didn't succeed to keep everyone alive. Regarding the hostility of the VS towards the player. In their eyes, Shepard was working with Cerberus who was working with the "Collectors". Maybe that's why they arrived so conveniently to the scene. Why bother saving all these people though? Seems counterproductive. The VS then argues - what if the player is being manipulated into believing that Cerberus is saving anyone at all? Perhaps they needed to save that "friendly face" to preserve the illusion. It didn't go well at all, as even a romanced VS is not convinced, refuses to join you, possibly breaking your heart. The TIM then specifically asks you if you will allow past relationships to get in the way. But, maybe, it was the plan all along, to sever your links to the alliance to have you fully commited (a variation of the plot where you could join Cerberus full time?) We know that the TIM have staged the whole attack on the location. Why can't Cerberus actually be working with the "Collectors"? The latter are known to communicate with other species to trade technology or something. What if they made a deal or something? At that point of the story how can we know for sure? Finally, we can also go deeper, and accept "Paragon Lost" a me cinematic, introducing James Vega and his unit taking on the Collectors, as canon. It takes the idea to a new level, introducing a new perspective, it has some fundamental flaws, but basically confirms the VS was right. The cinematic even introduces an antidote which would break the paralysis even if taken prior to the injection, the idea itself fixes the inconsistency between the stupid cutscene and the conclusion of the level, although, probably, not possible chronologically. Almost makes we wonder if "Paragon Lost" plot was originally meant for the VS.
Kudos for plugging in Brigador soundtrack in the background! ME 2 is my favorite of the series, but your critical analysis made me realize what problems I had closed my eyes on to enjoy this game. In a way, it made me understand and appreciate the game better. Thanks!
When I saw the 5 hour time of this video, I thought "this will get boring fast"...but it didn't. Extremely in depth analysis of this game. I personally agreed with much of your take on the loyalty missions. Tali and Legions are excellent, Thane and Kasumi's are good because it is different and most of the rest are either ok or just there. BTW... Always destroy the heretic geth lol for the sake of ME3.
So excited for this one😁 Agreed with vast majority of your opinions on ME1 , but my feelings on ME2 are opposite what most people think about it. My least favorite of the trilogy. For the most part I really appreciate the combat changes, in large part because they set the foundation for the amazing combat of ME3 But other than combat and a few of the better quests Garus', Liara's and Kasumi's if were including dlc, and obviously the suicide mission was mostly dope as hell. But other than those examples, the majority of game 2 feels like filler they made up at the last minute. Shadowbroker and stolen memory dlc being some of the few parts that feel like they were actually crafted with the same passion and attention that created the first game. Which is no doubt why they're some of the best content in ME2. After the wild space opera that is ME1, I think the last thing any of us expected was a damn filler episode!!😭
The whole story of mass effect 2 could be a side quest or an expansion pack. It added nothing to the reaper plot. I loved the game but even then I saw it.
The critiques on the gameplay from combat to scanning to the star map navigation to the general movement jank are so spot on, it is actually giving me flashback memories to playing the game in a vivid way that all the story and visual elements on display, while i recognize them, are failing to create that nostolgia. It really was a very clunky shooter, cab't wait to move to ME3 and horde mode krogan-melee/shotgun one-shot charger-tank builds. More later... Later: the guy exclaiming "you murdered them! In cold blood!" clearly would prefer if you let the angry Batarian who just raised his weapon again and pointed it right at said guy's face while ordering his lackeys to "kill them all" unload a few shots first before opening fire....in the spirit of fair play, i guess?
Honestly agree with the sentiment that 2 started a lot of the flaws 3 would expand upon. Started LE as my first entry into the series and I have to say I could feel a definite change of tone into something I could only say was a lot less like what the original mass effect did, and was more like what I image a Mass effect tv drama would be like
*which isn't a bad thing on its own, but I think I could feel the game starting to be more about plot beat then plot detail, as it ramped up its scope from robot invasion to god king invasion. It lost a lot of the charm the world felt in 1.
I think you're slightly off with the critique of the Collectors being Protheans. It is well established that Reapers corrupt the organics they conquer and turn them into monstrous slave soldiers. It was easy to think Collectors were a strange new alien race, but every husk was a hint to their being a twisted remnant of a subsumed race, we already know they serve the Reapers so it isn't the sudden leap of exposition you painted it to be. I'm not saying it was as well established as it should have been, and there is the bizarreness of the Collectors having existed for millennia, but it does have some setup. The worst part is the retconning of Prothean physiology, which you mentioned in the ME1 video. Sure, if the Collectors had looked anything like the sculptures on Illos, it would have been way too obvious, even ME2 Shep might have figured it out. Even so, it's a cheap trick, which makes it the one sticking point in the Collectors' origin for me.
I'm still with PS, Mass Effect 1 established a completely different fate for the Protheans, and I feel that turning them into mindless husks we can shoot at does nothing but take away their mystique only because they wanted a cheap, shitty twist that the story does nothing with. Besides, why bugs if they're meant to be husks? Shouldn't they look more like the husks in Mass Effect 3 than bug monsters? It's not like it would've mattered whether they were disguised or not, aliens are aliens. It would've been better if they never even explained what the Collectors are, like the Keepers. Were they another race the Reapers enslaved eons ago? Were they a completely artificial creation to act as the perfect puppets? Who knows and who cares, because the story does nothing even when they are revealed to have a deeper backstory anyway.
I'm sorry man but if you picked Garrus as your tech expert it's absolutely your fault he got his head blown off. You had Tali, Legion and Kasumi literally sitting right there and decided Garrus was a more qualified tech expert. Sure, he had half a blue bar in ME1 but that in no way makes him a tech "expert". Maybe "good", or "skilled" or "experienced" but never "expert". They literally give you a description of every characters' skills and talents in the selection menu. I don't know what Garrus' says off the top of my head but I know it absolutely does not say "tech expert". By your logic should Thane have been able to hold the biotic barrier, because he's a biotic sniper the same way Garrus is a tech sniper. If Wrex was playable in this game he would have been a better example, since he got half a purple bar. But if he was playable, would you have picked him, under the reasoning that he had half a purple bar in the last game? I actually agreed with a fairly decent portion of this video. I was very upset when this game abandoned the course that ME1 charted. But I learned to like the game for what was. There's also a very large portion I disagree with too. Quite a few of your points range from mildly nonsensical to just full blown false. Happy to get into it in the replies, but this comment is long enough for right now.
I disagree with the notion that Shepard chasing down Geth is out of character, and that he wouldn't "waste his time" with Geth after defeating Sovereign. If you're a true Mass Effect player, your Shepard has been sent on dozens of small scale missions just like this throughout the first game. "Hey Shepard, there are missing ships over here, would you check it out?" is one of many scenarios for side quests in ME1. Also, I disagree with the constant lambasting of minor plot points. Probably half an hour is dedicated to offshoots about how one plot point here or there is somehow nonsensical or too convenient. Mass Effect is essentially a golden age scifi story in video game form, and such conveniences are standard for the genre. Look no further than the fact that every woman you meet is a princess/heiress. To complain of plot contrivances is like complaining that there are eggs in your omelet.
Yea its like a part of me enjoys his commentary then I realize half the time he is bitching and whining over the little's of things that any person can nitpick of any other game lol
Yeah I feel like at a certain point these long form retrospectives start to go in bad faith. I get ME1 was cool but sometimes you're warned it's style over substance.
Thats also something i pointed out in my comment. You can clearly see he doesnt like Mass Effect 2. Thats fair tastes are diffrent. And he actually makes a lot of good points and arguments. But a lot of his complains are just out of the blue, very nitpicky and just here to make the game look bad. I also watched his video on ME1 and he lets ME1 get away with many problems and plot wholes he would have heavily criticized if they were in ME2
They missed the chance to remake the series with the Legendary Edition, you know, make it a cohesive whole and not just a series of top-notch if inconsistent world and character-building vignettes.
Even if they tried it's just not the same bioware. The remaster destroys a lot of atmosphere, especially in 1. I don't think they understood why things were a certain way and so just blindly changed lighting and textures in an attempt to look "next gen". The most obvious example is seeing sovereign on eden prime.
They didn’t even bother fixing the glitches from the original game in Legendary Edition e.g. Conrad’s broken dialogue in ME2 & Zaeed’s broken dialogue in ME3, so I’m not surprised they didn’t go for full blown retcons.
1:02:00 I'm surprised you didn't mention the balcony in Hock's mansion. The view from it, together with the music, is the only thing in ME2 that makes me feel this weird, palpable feeling of something greater, just out of reach, that the first game is filled with.
Fantastic vid. I played ME2 before 1, back when 2 came out, and considered it the best game I'd ever played for a while (I was 15 or so at the time), so this was a very interesting take. I have to disagree with some of your smaller points about companions, but I fully agree with most of what you say. When I first played this, having not played the first one, I loved the characters, I loved the combat-picked Vanguard on my first go, and oh man was I enjoying myself-and I loved doing an Insanity run with every class. But after playing ME1 (and then ME3, after that came out), I have to agree that ME2 is a good game when taken in a vacuum. I don't know how one could call it the best game of the series, unless "least worst game in general" is meant (and even then, I'd give that title to ME1. Its combat isn't _that_ bad.). ME1 has a significantly better story and worldbuilding paired with lacklustre combat, whilst ME3 has heavy melee and more fun combat, but a dogshit story. ME2 is the red-headed stepchild in the middle, with great combat and a not-particularly-good story that ends up being a pointless side quest that doesn't amount to much in the end. But hey, at least we have Miranda. The point you make about the colour-coded ending is great. To draw a (possibly tired) comparison to everyone's favourite Star Wars, I, for one, kind of enjoyed "The Force Awakens" though I had my issues with it, as I assumed or hoped its sequel would fix things. Instead, we got what we got. I imagine the same thing having happened here with ME2 and 3, although I can imagine this ending was much, much worse for those who played the first game. I knew nothing about anything by playing ME2 first, so I didn't mind it much. In hindsight, after playing ME1, this game's plot is absolutely horrific and an insult to all the setup and richness that the first game developed. Still re the ending, you also make an amusing point about blowing up the base. Of course it makes sense to keep it if the reapers are coming; that didn't stop teenage me from generally blowing it up (mostly because that's what I came to do and because the illusive man was shady, I think). Reminds me of a particularly terrible episode of Stargate SG-1 where, with our present-day Earth threatened by murderous high-tech aliens, the level-headed military commander and all-around badass chooses not to gain access to free super-high technology because the person offering it is "bad". In a war for survival, that doesn't make any sense at all, especially when you can dictate the terms of how this tech will be researched and used; in the Illusive Man's case, it's a little shady indeed, but still, keeping the base is a valid option for consideration indeed. (If we handwave getting to it, of course). Naturally, all of this is rendered moot by the fact that Cerberus turns evil and gains everything anyway. Kill the Rachni queen? Oh, they made a new one. Blow up the base? Oh, they get the tech anyway. Maelon's research? Keiji's greybox? Doesn't matter if you destroyed all that, it's still there in ME3. What a waste of potential. By the way, Kasumi's flashbang grenade is an incredible skill to have, even on Insanity. I always pick it up on a Vanguard. Much better than Zaeed's limp grenade. On DLCs: When Lair of the Shadow Broker came out, I completed it in one go, getting truly lost in it. It was just too much fun. When Arrival came out, I played it once, thought it to be awful, and was utterly aghast when I realised that ME3's beginning is predicated on this shit having happened. I enjoyed Overlord, more or less. (Mild) Disagreements: Garrus quickly became my favourite character even though I didn't know him previously; I thought he had more than enough to say, though I do agree that his loyalty mission didn't have a good enough payoff and that I wish he had more to say in general. Jacob wasn't particularly interesting, but he did seem to be stoic and collected, and I found it obvious that he was downplaying the importance of the transmission for his loyalty mission. And as for Legion's mission, I saw a lot more of the "calculating" side than any possible naïveté. But I guess we all focus on different things when we assess a particular character. P.S.: Surprised you didn't save the crew. They were okay, the engineers in particular. Though I guess the so-called Scotsman did commit a cardinal sin by pronouncing "Islay" wrong.
Is there something I can do for you? [SOUNDS OF A MAN BEING VICIOUSLY BEATEN] [SEVERAL SECONDS PASS. SHEPHERD LOOKS UNPERTURBED] Whatever he did, he probably deserves worse. [BEATING CONTINUES]
My intro to this series was ME2, the Bargain Shop (Now called Red Apple, apperently it was always called that for Americans) in my home town was selling a copy for like 6 bucks. Brought it home and installed it, started playing with only a vauge idea of what the franchise was about. It hooked me pretty good, and I beat it reletively quick given my usual pace in games. Now it's still my only Mass Effect Experience, which I plan to rectify eventually, and even so it stands as a favorite of mine
It's a fantastic analysis. I loved reading the articles as they came out, and the subsequent debates in the comments. Edit: It's Shamus Young on D20. Would Highly recommend the read and a delve into the comments for deep discussion on the lore and universe this series so expertly set up in ME1.
The most annoying thing for me about this game is that everyone called me a space racist because I decided to focus all my attention on saving the galaxy instead of saving the council. The way I saw it during my first playthrough was a trolley problem and I sure as hell wasn't potentially leaving the entire galaxy to die in order to save a few assholes!
Well it wasn't just the Council, there were who knows how many Asari on the Destiny Ascension that you let die if you choose that option. Space racist is taking it a little too far in my eyes, but Shep should have been called out about everyone who died on that ship because of their decision to tell everyone to gun straight for the Reaper while completely ignoring the Destiny Ascension's distress call instead of making it just about the Council.
I am happy you mentioned the Zaeed endings and how varied they are. My recent playthrough, I had saved the civvies, generally being renegade but only if it didn't unneccessarily caused harm. So when zaeed got caught under the wreckage, i left him to die there, it was honestly an awesome moment in the story.
Late as hell, but only getting to this video now. Near the end You point out the silliness of the Human Reaper. I don't hear anything about the in-universe idea of it, just complaints about visual design and BioWare's implementation of the boss. Not sure if missing something, but just in case You also don't like the idea of the Human Reaper itself... I always thought it reasonable. Maybe not from our pov, but say you're an "eternal" race of sentient machine gods, that put the whole galaxy in a huge terrarium and open it up to play every cycle. And every single time it's a stomp, trillions die, galaxy can't figure out what happens, much less resist. And then a human creature appears, resists indoctrination, interrupts a plan perfected through millions of years and actually kills a Reaper. Collectors end up "killing" Shepard, but the sour taste and impossibility of an ant going against cosmic currents is so flabbergasting, the Reapers (or just Harbinger) can't resist the opportunity of trying to figure out how. Figure out how humans work, how can they use that knowledge to improve. Reapers are machines after all and despite all the god complex cases, they aim to perfect themselves if they find themselves inadequate. That's what the Human Reaper is - an experiment attempting to recreate the mystery of human element, in a look-alike shell (cause wouldn't it be funny when a Reaper resembling the human god idea descended upon Earth?). I don't think there's even a guarantee it would work and be an actual Reaper, not just a human-shaped puppet. I agree the visuals and idea itself, even more the explanations of it in-game, could use work, but the existence of the Human Reaper in-universe does seem plausible and even justified, as far as I'm concerned.
My thoughts on the Human Reaper to make it make sense was that they take an amalgamation of the dominant species from every cycle and send them off to be the "living memory" of that cycle and just chill in dark space for eternity with the rest of them. They would never risk losing the lifeblood of an entire cycle so those never go back into the galaxy, and the reapers we see are all the original warforms that were created at the dawn of the cycles. But obviously that is as painted on as wookies in Star Trek with how the rest of the series played out.
Am I the only one who agreed with Mordin about the genophage? I always thought it was the best possible solution in the worst possible event. The Krogan would have either won and ruled the galaxy, killing or enslaving the rest, or be completely wiped out, as it is, they survived, been given another chance and the balance of the galaxy remained. It certainly is an atrocity, but the Krogan are responsible, not the Salarians in my opinion.
The genophage was only justifiable if it was short term and they had solutions to change Krogan cultures. The Council Species did none of that. The Krogan on their home world, before being "uplifted," would kill each other and give birth at rates where the mortality rates would never overtake the birth rates. After the War they were brought down to the birth rates of other species/before Mass Effect tech and left with stronger tools to war with. The Krogan had 1,400 years of this now broken life. The Council wanted to put the genie back in the bottle when the genie already adpated to the new world. Its inhumane to essentially give all Krogan a long genocide by only touching their biology and not culture. They became mercs and had weird science experiments to try to fix themselves. While the Asari, Turians, and Salarians died leaving the Mess of the plague the Krogans were still remembering 500-1000 years later. They are a long lived species Wrex and Drack being examples of this. Image all the kids born who's fathers or grand fathers who fought in the war . The Resentment they would've had and that fatalism that lingered. To maintain this limbo for them was just as cruel if not Curlier than what they did during the Rebellions.
Salarians should have never interfered with them in the first place tho and just let them naturally evolve. Instead the Salarians used the Krogan and forced their "uplifting" on them. Mordin talks about how Salarians shouldve never done that. Krogan were still to primitive and not ready.
Similarly to 9Manny99's point, the Genophage would have been easier to swallow if it worked the way the salarians say it works: adjusting birthrates. As it is, the Genophage is a sterility plague that causes stillbirth instead of limiting pregnancy, thus inducing unnecessary suffering and furthering krogan resentment to the rest of the galaxy. It's a punishment, not a solution. It's like if every time you tried to get pregnant it just *didn't work*, instead of something like contraceptive just preventing the issue outright. The former is devastating, and this is happening to an entire people across the species. This is brilliant worldbuilding, IMO, as the salarians have a somewhat similar rapid birthrate without all the incredible survival genetics and long life span that the krogan enjoy. The salarians don't see it as a big deal to curtail birthrate by any means necessary in order to fix a problem, since the same restrictions to their own species would mean rapid cultural adjustment to account for such a dramatic change. The krogan, being a long lived race, have no precedent to adjusting behavior which sours their evaluation of the rest of the galaxy and forces them to live as mercenaries or else vie for a desperate breeding contract in the hope that they might have a chance to produce children. Their culture changed, but not in the way the Genophage was intended, and so it's a death knell for their people. Individualism dominates krogan culture, and the genophage didn't change that, just what perimeters constitute the right to breed: before the Genophage, it was prowess, strength, intelligence, and all those things evolution tells us are valuable for survival. After the Genophage, it's just whether or not you can produce offspring, changing their peoples' priorities drastically, which is why Wrex being in a position to lead is so critical to your decisions in ME3.
@@Poonchow You are considering this from your own view point, as said before the Krogan had 1 world and laid hundreds of eggs, do you truly think that the children, even babies, would not have chewed themselves out? Look at Tuchanka. It was a devastated hellhole before the Salarians came. The Krogan aren't angry because the Salarians snipped them. They are angry. Period. They were needed in the Rachni Wars, and given an out from their self-destructive society for that. They were also spreading like locusts, and kept demanding, then taking, then invading worlds so they had to be put back down. This is why they are angry. Because they've been put down. I'm not gonna say that the Genophage didn't give them more of an edge, but they always had the knife.
I dont get why people think mass effect 2s combat is better, its leveling up system is completely bare bones and shallow. Instead of making some easy adjustments to the inventory system they just completely removed it. The fact that most of the classes only allow you to have 2 out of the 5 weapon classes and soldier being the max amount of weapon classes not letting you have a submachine gun. Each of the classes doesnt have a lot of powers, (mind you a lot of the abilities are still good) but it feels like almost half of the abilities are just ammo types you can "activate" for your weapons and the constant reliance of cover in combat, and that also affects the way the levels are designed where they felt obligated to add a piece of cover for every 5 steps you take. I just finished mass effect 1 and jumped straight into 2. I had my nostalgia goggles on, because mass effect 2 was my first game in the series and I had many fond memories of it. And I felt very deep in my heart that the combat was about to be leaps and bounds from what it was in the first game, only to instantly remember all the things that I hated about it come rushing back all at once. Dont get me wrong, its still a very fun game and im happy to be playing again after spending 26 hours in the first game. But I honestly think mass effect 2s combat is very bare bones with how they tried to streamline everything, they did a lot to actually improve everything I hated about it in the 3rd game
As someone who loves mass effect 2 and the series in general (up to the last 15 minutes of 3) yes, the main plot has a lot of problems. However, it's the characters i'm here for, and most of my love of the series is based around these excellent characters (sit down jacob). Having gotten that out of the way, I came to realize watching this video I think modern Bioware sucks at endings. It's not just mass effect 2 and 3 that suffers from this. Dragon age 2's ending is barely memorable besides anders fucking everything up, inquisition ends after we beat an undercooked villain with exactly zero successes under his belt, I can't even tell you the name of andromeda's bad guy even after playing the game twice, and anthem... well anthem. I think that's all I have to say. Bioware hasn't pulled off a good ending to a game for a long ass time. Good characters they have a-plenty and their stories can be hit or miss, but endings? they just plain suck at it these days, which is a shame because the original mass effect and dragon age endings were legit fantastic. It really speaks to a flaw of the company's storytelling that they make these great characters and just build plot devices around them to make stuff happen. They need to flesh their stories out more.
You mention the ‘random’ people Shepard runs into more than once and it reminds me of a concept I’ve always really liked that being meaningful strangers. People we aren’t particularly acquainted with but have left some small impact on us.
Ive always liked the protheans are the collectors reveal, it shows saren was "correct" in that organic synthetics are useful to the reapers, but as nearly mindless drones that enact the will of the reapers, the protheans didnt need a setup to be the collectors, though i do wish 3 hadnt retconned thier appearence and made the statues on ilos just... nonrelevant. Also why turn them into bugs?
I find it fitting and a bit funny that the 2 DLC companions only joined Shepard on his mission because they were paid. Get it? The player had to cough up cash for them.
I'm at the part where you dissect overlord and it's poor representation of autism and I agree but also ironically ME2 has a great representation of one of Autism forms in Mordin. It always makes me chuckle when people find him quirky or have a hard time getting his motives because when you're autistic it clicks immediately.
You broke the only rule you cannot break in ME2. Miranda MUST stay in her white booty jumpsuit!!! Also I recommend doing EVERY side mission prior to the IFF one. Then ONLY do the Legion loyalty mission and then IMMEDIATELY go rescue your crew. And Tali & Kasumi can handle the tube-security mission. And Miranda can lead the 2nd team without losing anyone. Mordin taking the rescued crew back to the Normandy is the best call too.
I prefer her Black/Dark Blue Tight suit. But yea the one he has Miranda wearing in the video is an abomination. Like wtf is even that outfit lol her loyalty outfit is the go to.
Reapers being able to travel to the Milky Way in 2.5 years seriously makes no sense. They would have no need for Sovereign reactivating the Citadel Relay if they were capable of getting there so quickly. In ME1 they were desperate because the Citadel Relay was the ONLY way of reaching the galaxy. Conventional space travel would take so long, they would've ran out of energy and died. And it was only 2.5 years because the Alpha Relay got destroyed. It would've been 2 years otherwise.
It wasn't their "only way" it was the quickest and swiftest. They show up, boom, Galactic civilisation is paralysed just waiting to get finished off. The Reapers are on the edge of dark space, basically right on the border of the Milky Way. It would take a while for them to get to the first relay but then they're everywhere. When Shepard destroyed the Alpha Relay that pushed the Reapers back on their plans by a lot of time, that is it should've. The fact it only takes them 6 months to get to the next relay is... highly questionable to put it lightly. But BioWare must've had to quicken it, also with Shepard's trial and yadda yadda yadda unimportant. The Reapers would eventually reach the nearest relay and get to Council space. Maybe that could be a point that the Reapers had to sacrifice a percentage of their fleet for energy and thus give the galaxy a slightly higher chance of success in the war
The praetorian fight on insanity was BULLSHIT, I accidentally skipped the first 2 guys you fight before it by accessing the terminal through the wall so they fought with the flying menace but even solo that thing just hurts you
(Conclusion segment) "I don't like to dwell on what a game could've been"... Oh yes, you do; very much so. All your analysis videos echo this sentiment. Despite interesting insights here and there, that constant habit of dwelling brings down the quality of your long-form videos, in my opinion.
Was yelling this at the screen at that part. I agree with most of his points in this video but that whole section irked me. Everything he was saying I'm just sitting there like "yes.. yes, that's the thematic point actually"
If you enjoy spooky segments like the Reaper IFF mission. There is an N7 mission with an abandboned mine in the Minos Wasteland system and the level is creep with husks making all these weird groaning noises as you go through the area as they pop out of the floors and sides. It's one of those missions where you have go find yourself tho and are not told about it.
A good counter idea to Cerberus being so useless in 2 would be to just give you the option to work with them. Think of it this way; in the first game you have the potential to set up Shepard as a prohuman lose cannon with basically all the same values. You could lean further into the consequences of wiping out the council. Humans get a distasteful edge forward and the alliance gets serious about trying to make an empire. Cerberus would be more internally guided by Shepard. The Illusive man would pull back from his crazier ideas, while the alliance would be the ones who radicalize overtime. Having this path along the current cannon one wouldn't break the third game all that much either. You'd just be defending/taking back the Cerberus facilities rather than the other way around. Whatever side you don't choose becomes the indoctrinated one, and it leaves a lot of interesting possibilities for side character interactions. Ashly and Miranda would be willing to die on the hill of their original principles, while Kaiden and Jacob would see what way the wind is blowing and change sides. Wrex, grunt, Thane, and Garrus would respect you for taking a hardline approach to protecting your species but be cautious of you to various levels. Liara would be deeply unsettled, while Tali would distain but tolerate you as just another bigot she has to deal with. Samara would be indifferent, and Jack would just hate you lmao. The control ending would then only be possible if you followed this path, while the alliance would be the destroy ending. In that way both endings are much harder to get and give back a sense of agency to the player. This all just a pointless "what if", but a fun one to think about.
Or just don't use cerberus at all... I don't get it why there needs to be cerberus as a big of a deal, lol, shepard already had the bad boy edge with being a spectre and all, he had access to prototype cutting edge tech... Cerberus being big as it is, basically a private military, while simultaneously being in hiding doesn't makes sense at all. At least all these mercs private armies operate openly and have free access to suppliers of any sort given how lax the gun laws were in the both games, but Cerberus... Where do they get all this army, tech and resources for it for, lmfao? They should have been remained a minor nut job space nazi pseudoscience ragtag terrorist organization, not some super advanced space army to apparently have better tech than Alliance... Can you imagine Al Qaeda or ISIS building better planes and vehicles than US military?
@@Hirochicken A very good experience, I found the first few hours a bit slow. The opening was a bit silly with Shepard dying but there’s some cool dialogue options due to it. I’ve only ever played the Legendary edition so I was a bit disappointed that planetary exploration was reduced because scouting prothean relics and just generally cutting about the universe with Garrus and Tali being a rogue space chad was a lot of fun (I’m aware that in the original Mass Effect the Mako was piece of shit.) All in all ME2 is one of the greatest gaming experiences I’ve had purely because of the characters and lore, as well as the writing.
Lair of the Shadow Broker is much more satisfying if you actually romanced Liara It has the best Romance in all 3 games that DLC alone. It's why I constantly go back to it and is the first thing I do when Horizon is finish.
You hit the nail on the head with the collector ship and dead reaper; ME1 set up the opportunity for a strong space horror setting, and I went into those missions expecting a creepy dead space vibe, but bioware failed to capitalize on it.
I changed the appearance because I was dubious about their claims they fixed the custom faces in the legendary edition. Otherwise right there with you, default shep is best. Though their claims seem true, at least me1 custom faces dont turn out so unnatural.
Personal head cannon for the human reaper is that they mentioned that attempts to create a prothean reaper failed. I can only assume this was true for every other species, except humanity or something similar. So they essentially had the collectors test out if a human reaper would be possible so they can replenish their numbers and keep harvesting eternally
i always thought that ME2 got rid of so much of the stuff i cared about the most in the first game when i first played it. i felt it was part of a downward trend and ME3 kind of proved me right lol anyway i always kinda felt alone feeling that but i guess i didn't have many friends
I appreciate you playing Renegade for these, if anything so people see some options they don't normally see. I like Shep somewhere in the middle after the events of 1. They'll do the right thing, but aren't afraid to cut corners and play dirty to get there after being forced to like Cerberus. Like being a bit jaded after things go downhill
I do agree with a lot of what you've said here. But I do disagree that there wasn't enough done to explain Liara's character change from ME1 to 2, unless you are only counting the base game. Lair of the Shadowbroker provided several conversational pieces that tell you what happened and when paired with prior knowledge of what she went through in the first game and what happened to the crew in general between the games it's honestly pretty easy to see someone change like that. I started playing Mass Effect for the first time like two weeks-ish ago (haven't played 3 yet because I accidentally let half my crew die so I'm replaying 2 again lol) starting pretty much blind. I came in only knowing that the game took place in space and a character was named Shepard. I've never looked at any of the comics either. I think the information for what changed her is all there delivered in a concise way. I imagine the comic expands upon it a lot more but the info you need to piece together how her personality got from point A to point B are all there in the DLC and some main game dialogue.
2:11:34 I’ve been struggling with this for awhile. I think I hate Liara or rather I hate what the writers did to her in all 4 games (Yea you heard me) Was gonna explain my reasoning, and realized I had typed half an essay. Put simply she becomes a bit of a Mary sue and is clearly the writer’s favorite. If Shepherd has a “Canon” love interest it’s Liara. I have to end it here cause I’d just keep going.
Honestly, I hate that renegade was used for this video. My favorite parts featured explanation of different options in a scenario, something I think a more neutral playthrough would have done better but what do I know. Still enjoyed the video
I was never confused by the Collectors being Protheans. It makes sense to me that if husks exist for humans, and clearly Turians since that's what Saren became, then what about the last cycle?
Why turn them into bugs though? We've seen all the horrifying experiments they went through from the visions, why would they just be turned into bugs at the end of the day?
@@nagger8216 To me they never came across as "giant bugs", just bug aesthetics. Protheans and Collectors could very well be made of the same skin, and hell we don't know much about Prothean biology anyway. For all we know, Javik doesn't have wings because he's male. We do see in ME3 the flashback where the Protheans are fighting Collectors, to me the logic is clear, they're just husks but for Protheans. That's what they look like.
@@EvilParagon4 That still doesn't make sense though, we've seen Reaper husks from different species in Mass Effect 3 and they all share the same aesthetic the human husks from the first game did, with pale skin and blue implants with wires and metal. I always figured the Reapers at least made the Collectors that way to purposefully make them different from normal Reaper tech to avoid anyone putting two and two together so they could be some kind of secret agents for them, but if the Collectors are just normal Prothean husks that makes even less sense
@@nagger8216 I mean, we literally see them in that role in ME3. And yes, we also have evidence from ME2 to say they've been genetically altered by the Reapers. We could say that they're upgraded husks, ones under Reaper control but without being simple AI? The Reaper Invasion of the Protheans took 100 years, and Javik was born towards the end of it. Collectors in this case would be Prothean Husks v2, with the husks we're more familiar with being the quick and easy dragon's teeth ones that don't produce as efficient results as dedicated genetic modification. Additionally, if we're going to question the bug appearance, perhaps Collectors have Keeper DNA in them, another Reaper controlled species.
Left behind just as vigil states. Unable to do anything besides die. After all, the reapers don’t need them. They have an entire galaxy to work with in the next cycle.
I adore Kasumi. Feels like a little sister to my Renegade Femshep. Her dialogue always makes me laugh in gameplay since I bring her on every mission and she is kinda OP with the Shadow Strike when you combine your Charge with it. It feels like some duel finisher lol I love it
I love how you added Cyberpunk 2077 music into this video. I cannot remember the name of the song but it plays during Tali's Loyalty Mission section. You are a lot more critical of this game than I was, granted I played this before the first game. I do very much enjoy the continued Renegade nonsense because I am such a fucking boyscout I couldn't stand doing the renegade playthroughs... I might give one a try for shits and giggles. Keep up the good work. I also wanted to find out something that took me far too long to notice after numerous playthroughs. A lot of asari dont have eyebrows but Liara does.
Here's my take on the crew's motives for going on the suicide mission I agree with most points in this section, except for Jack and Grunt. Jack is a thrill seeker, so a dangerous operation like this might be good fun. And after seeing Shep's abilities, and knowing her own, she might even believe it when he says "I intend to prove them wrong" in regards to the suicide mission. And I don't think she's a criminal anymore. She's a former criminal. I think, between her imprisonment, and her time on the Normandy, she's come to actually love and respect this crew. Or at least, its commander. Knowing they're going into a suicide mission, she might be invested in its survival. After being shown actual respect and comradery, treated as an equal, and getting her closure in her loyalty mission, I don't think she'd want to let that go so easily. As for Grunt, he is a pure Krogan, meant to be the greatest warrior of their kind. What better way to prove himself as a true Krogan than by entering the Omega 4 Relay and surviving an impossible battle, completely victorious?
Around the 37 minute mark you say that the guns in ME2 lack variety compared to ME1. This is an absurd claim… In Mass Effect there were 4 guns total. All of the upgrades are stat related. The AR is still full auto on a cool down, the pistol is still full auto on a cool down, the sniper is a delete button when you’re trained for it, and the shotgun is the same but up close… at least there is the Vindicator and Avenger, the Predator and the Carnifex, the Mantis and the other one, the shotguns, the smgs… need i go on? That’s not even factoring in the collector ship guns AND the DLC guns (which cost a pittance).
At launch, ME2 only had two guns of each type, and 3 unlockable weapons with special training. That is pitiful. ME1's gun mods system let you substantially change how the guns operated. Your assault rifle could either be a fast firing, never overheating bullet hose, or modded to he a slow firing, crit damage monster. The same thing goes for all the other guns as well. At the very least, both games are on par.
Mass effect 1 the sniper, pistol and assault rifle all had at least 2 variants. Semi auto, full auto and burst for pistol, burst and single shot for sniper, and burst and full auto for the assault rifle. I don’t use the shotguns so I’m not sure about them
4:28:57 I think the logic behind destroying the base could’ve been easily fixed by having us not kill the human Reaper. Why would that fix it? If they made it so we can’t destroy the human Reaper with just our pistols and we don’t know when It could activate then there’s a reasonable reason to destroy the base. Now of course some lines of dialogue would have to be rewritten, but it would at least give a reason for the destruction ending.
Coming back to this and realizing that the comments about you going "all the way" in your mass effect 3 video was from here and you were still getting even even in the next game was nice to realize
The only thing I really liked about ME2 and ME3 is that the Geth you fight are a small faction and not the entire species. Most Geth don't want to go all kill bot on organics, which totally blows apart the entire weak excuse they gave the Reapers doing what they're doing in 3. Of course, the husks also helped in that regard, which is hilarious since that's also considered Reaper tech, making them even bigger hypocrites. It's like they're just manufacturing reasons to do what they do when it suits them, not very fitting for a force who claims that their motives and thinking are beyond the small minds of limited organic beings.
What's funny about the writing is, Dragon Age 2 was made around the time of Me2 and is the exact opposite. With DA2, they only had like 18 months, and you could feel it with the graphics and map design, yet the writing is arguably some of the best in the series. ME2, on the other hand, had a massive budget, still looks awesome, but the main story writing is atrocious with little to no scrutiny. I remember from the day when it came out, people said it was a side story at best, and the real meat was your squadmates.
If Leviathan wasn't DLC, the human reaper reveal would've made that much more sense in retrospect (imo) The Collector's were doing R&D for the next cycle (using the race that killed one as the new base) It was always a balance of power over in-fighting organics feeding old crabs.
I always blew up the Collector base not because of the morals, but because of who I'm GIVING it to. My choices are blow it up... or give it to the Illusive Man. I don't trust him, I never did during the game, and I'm not gonna hand him all this shit now. I've heard Mass Effect 2 described as "the filler season" in the trilogy. If you went from Mass Effect 1 immediately over to 3, not a whole lot would really change. Liara became a spooky information broker off camera anyway, so that's out. All you'd really miss out on is the part where she becomes THE Broker. You can still show up to Tuchanka and find out Wrex is in charge of the clans through the missions in 3. Garrus would be missing his cool new scar, sure, but he could get it in 3 instead. Also, the Sidonus/Omega story barely amounted to anything anyway. Even if Tali is exiled, they still secretly keep her around because she's useful to them still, so as much as I love her loyalty mission it doesn't affect much. Cerberus goes off the deep end and antagonizes you and everyone else no matter how buddy-buddy you get with the Illusive Man (as much as the game will allow you to get buddy-buddy anyway). Honestly, the biggest thing that'd change (that I can think of off the top of my head) is Kaidan or Ashley's attitude towards you since we'd skip the whole "you're working for Cerberus?!" conversations, and you could still just flub that and say "haha you've been in Navy jail so long that you've grown apart and they still feel bad about who you chose to save at Virmire."
I hate how Mass effect 2 forces you to stay with Cerberus The First Time I played the Trilogy I picked "sole Survivor" background and learned how Cerberus caused the Akuze slaughter... and then I can't tell those assholes to fuck off?
I always thought of Mass Effect 2 being a fine game, but definitely setting the precedent for where the series would go. While I do agree that the crew getting kidnapped is a contrivance (especially since you don't really even feel their absence) it feels like the playthrough took a turn in a random direction and doesn't payoff because presumably it's setting stuff up for the third game.
When I saw, “…read more.” I have to admit, I expected 302 pages of notes.
When I saw, "...show replies." I have to admit, I expected 302 people freaking out about recognising PatricianTV
In a meta aspect, ME2 was a veritable crossroads for Bioware, and the game itself feels like a metaphor for their company's transition from independent developer of third party IP to making their own games under the umbrella of a bigger company. Coming off the EA acquisition, trying to make their games more cinematic and palatable for a general audience... it's all these aspects of their past trying to mix with their goals of the future like oil and vinegar. The result is a mixture that seems pleasant when taken all at once for face value, but when examined closely is revealed to be bits of brilliance mixed in with mediocrity. People love the series for a myriad of reasons and dissecting it is a hobby in and of itself.
@@Poonchow Interesting, I didn't know ME1 wasn't under the EA umbrella
@@JasonX909 Yeah, if you boot up an Xbox copy of ME1 you'll see the Microsoft logo instead of EA. Kinda interesting in retrospect
I don’t think there’s a single game like ME2 that I love so much yet I also agree with the majority of a 5 hour video essay criticizing almost every aspect of it. It really shows the strength of ME2’s character writing, since it can carry almost the entire experience on its back.
If only we could take the best parts of ME1 and ME2 and squish them together.
As a Pen 'n Paper Roleplayer with over 30 years of experience, in addition to being a Gamemaster who ran a Campaign that last 16 years, I can safely say one thing with total confidence-
Roleplaying games are NOT MOVIES.
So, yes, I totally agree with your take that having Cutscenes where Shepard is not involved are a serious misstep. However, most Game Devs are wanna-be Film creators & most people don't even know what makes a Roleplaying Game (Both PnP & cRPG) a unique form of entertainment- Player Agency. Giving the Player information that the Character cannot know, is something films do for an external viewer. Not something done for a character inside that story.
I’d have to disagree on your belief that Grunt has no reason to take part in the suicide mission until after you get his loyalty. Grunt, in his introduction, states that he doesn’t particularly care what happens to him, and that all that matters to him is fighting and finding out who the strongest is with the dialogue implying that his own life does not matter to him. I will agree that his reasoning is better after you earn his loyalty, but I’d argue that the point of loyalty missions is that the character is now devoted to completing the suicide mission.
I think it's even stronger than that. From the very first conversation, Grunt makes it clear that he does not accept the motivations Okeer imprinted upon him. He doesn't know who he is, or why he should care about the Krogan, the galaxy, or even himself. All he knows is that it feels good to fight. Through his interactions with Shepard he's learning about himself both by exploring the imprinted memories and through seeing Shepard's example ("that funny human thing you do"). So, before Shepard becomes his battlemaster, giving purpose to his anger by finding him the biggest, most worthy foe, he chooses to journey with Shepard because it's his way of discovering himself.
Besides, why would a suicide mission bother him in the first place? He was bread in a tank and has already rejected Okeer's motivations. Why would a motivation towards self-preservation be any different?
I think its even more stronger of a case when you realize a Suicide mission is exactly the thing grunt literally lives for; And is even more proven in Mass effect 3 when you get his mission in that game, he enjoys the danger and thrill of overcoming impossible odds.
Wrex is like the only one who is actually happy and emotes when seeing Shepard. It always pissed me off that everyone else was like 'whatever'
Garrus makes a bit of sense as he was probably very sleep deprived
@@lightsinadarkworld2013 That, and he knew Shepard was on the station as soon as he landed. And got to watch him rush over the bridge to him. So the surprise had time to wear off, on top of the more important things happening.
@@Majima_Nowhere Liara also was directly responsible for saving Shepard and, if you're in a relationship with her, also immediately goes in for the kiss upon reuniting, so I don't actually think Shepard's return is really being brushed under the rug.
The only one with an underwhelming reaction to Shepard's return is Tali imo
Joker
By the ending of your Mass Effect 1 playthrough your Shepard were literally build up to be Vader to Ambassador Udina (Emperor Palpatine) as Udina made his grand speach about taking power after the death of the council. In the second game however, when Shepard and Udina met in your playthrough, it was as if that conversation never happend. Maybe Udina got a grip of himself and understood what a super villain he was turning into or something… It must have been a storyline they dropped in the second installment.
Maybe his disappointment with not suddenly being able to use force lightning really soured him on Shepard?
"I have altered the Council, pray I do not alter it any further."
Nah it'd be unrealistic for the council raises to somehow not have a chain of command and line of succession and let us set up a human council. Udina was lost in the sauce.
Just as I’m finishing Patrician’s Oblivion. Perfect timing.
I finished that a bit ago too, but yes, good timing.
Any recommended channels? I follow both
@@Priceeric2 I recommend Charlatan Wonder and The Salt Factory
@@Priceeric2 Tetramorre's channel
@@Priceeric2 beyondXP
About the world building, consequences and storytelling - The space emails and messages you could receive after completing missions and making choices really helped add a lot of flavour and essence to the world. A great example of low effort, high impact writing!
I should have mentioned those tbh. It's the same philosophy that spawned the shadow broker dossiers that are entertaining to comb through.
@@PrivateSessions Those dossiers gave me far too much joy for what they actually were!
That’s a good name
I approve
I still hold firm ME1 is my favorite ME game
And that's because you're a smart person. ME1 is the best game in the franchise. People who say ME2 is the best are smoking crack. I absolutely loved Cerberus in ME1, and was so hyped that they were the primary focus of 2, and I love Harbinger, but ME1 is a straight up masterpiece. The combat in one has a million more options in regards to playstyles. The jankiness is part of the fun, and I rarely if ever say that about games.
And the ability to CROUCH!
Which was amazing to have, especially on harder difficulties, and helped not having to habitually use the wonky cover system. Can’t believe they took it outta the franchise.. I don’t feel the same way with Me2 as I did with Me1. I’m also new to the franchise, and currently running the series. I’m halfway through 2 now. I’m dissatisfied
@@Madmike772 Yeah, Private Sessions, the filthy casual, mentions that he's playing on "no higher than normal." No wonder his opinions on combat are retarded, he's not even playing on Insanity, which is the intended experience. You don't understand or appreciate this series until you're playing on Insanity.
The writing is fantastic
ME1 was a clunky mess, imo. Great worldbuilding and story, but the actual gameplay is so mediocre-to-outright-terrible that I can't stomach a full playthrough. They did the companions so poorly, (aside from rex) that it's hard to get invested in the story.
ME2 has actually fun gameplay, (which is kinda important in a game) and they decided to focus on making the companions great. It took me from being a person who can't even be bothered to finish ME1, to being a person who wanted to 100% ME2.
There's a reason why ME2 is the most beloved entry in the series.
I never fell for the beginner's trap that is the aftermath of the Normandy invasion. I do everything beforehand, including getting all the upgrades, plus Tali and Legion's loyalty missions since you're allowed 2 missions before the crew is doomed to die. So when the 'choice' came up, I went immediately to the relay, even Miranda acknowledged that we are as ready as possible. But I can see how it's emotional manipulation to other people.
Saaame, you gotta deliberately play it in the order like he did to get it so wrong tbh. It is nonsensical progressing the story with so many loyalty missions still to do.
@@Bloomingtide To be fair it's stupid that the game railroads you into pushing the story forward. Really freaking asinine.
So you get two missions? Because I can't find any info to confirm how many missions you can do. I've read even doing one mission after your crew is taken then some die, I've read if you do one mission they all die. You can do two missions and they'll all be fine but more than that and they all die. even if you get EDI telling you the reaper iff is ready, if you talk to legion once before you hit the galaxy map the game will delay it so you can do legions loyalty. But I want to do legions and the overlord dlc before the final mission. Because its really annoying how the illusive man sends you mail even if you blow up the collector base and cut ties with Cerberus.
@@cjvaye99
It's been 10+yrs since I played it so I'm not sure but I believe the game gives you a freebie or 2 if they are loyalty missions.
@@cjvaye99 I can confirm from my own experience playing through the series about a dozen times (about once a year I fire up the trilogy) that you get two missions after the abductions before you're losing crew members. If you've completed everything else before doing the Reaper IFF, then Legion's loyalty mission opens up immediately upon activating him. If you have anything else you haven't done, the dialogue for his loyalty mission doesn't come until your second conversation with him.
So, the two mission window exists so that - no matter how you're playing the game - you have the opportunity to do Legion's loyalty mission without it affecting your crew in the Collector Base. Any further delay and the bodies start to drop.
I'm so happy long-essay content becomes more popular on yt. And right after Patrician Oblivion, too!
Going from ME1 to ME2 I really missed my chemical rounds. there is something so satisfying about leaving your enemies as a puddle of green goo
I'll never understand why they removed so many combat options from ME2... And people praise it from some unruly reason. It's a terribly shallow, clunky (even more so than ME1), repetitive and boring combat system.
High Explosive Rounds on the Shotgun was my favourite.
@@UsernameGeriit's praised because the gameplay is an improvement, despite the lack of options. Quality over quantity. The combat system is far from boring and requires more out of you than ME 1. ME 1, on casual, requires nothing from the player, and it feels like you are supposed to use the squad commands system, but in the main quests they feel mostly inconvenient. In ME 2, it's a lot easier to position but positioning is a lot less needed. And complexity doesn't make an RPG system better, Skyrim has a lot to its skilltrees but I care about a whole lot less than a game like DA 2 with a lot more limited skilltrees.
I find ME 1's combat ok at best but aged poorly and I don't think a lot of stuff in the system helps the fact that the base game is ok to mediocre.
@@UsernameGeri Because I'd rather play a functional shallow third person shooter than whatever dogshit ME 1's combat was.
The thing about the Invasion of the Normandy mission that I find hilarious and interesting is how much it plays out like a first date for Joker and EDI. I remember replaying ME2 a lot back in the day and on one playthrough I noticed how Edi starts calling him Jeff by the end of the game. I theorized that in ME3 Edi would somehow get a body, her and Joker would end up dating...which ended up happening.
WHAT.
The entire Mass Effect 2 main story should’ve been a large scale DLC for Mass Effect 2, similar to Oblivion’s Shivering Isles or Skyrim’s Dragonborn
The actual Mass Effect 2 should’ve been what Mass Effect 3 was, running around gathering resources, technology & allies for the Reaper War
Then Mass Effect 3 should’ve been massive galactic war.
And the games shouldn’t have been rushed with
Couldn't agree more tbh. Me3 had a lot of politics that would have been better fit for 2. But that's a discussion for the me3 vid :)
The fuck you talking about, ME3 was ALL war. We DO spend the first two games gathering resources for it, hence the war assets system incorporating ALL your previous decisions, such as Cerberus activities here in ME2, and the Rachni in ME1. We got exactly what we needed, and the main plot of ME2 wouldn't have fit in a DLC.
I feel like ME2 improved on the characterization of the squadmates at the cost of Shepard's characterization. ME1 had squadmates basically functioning as lore fountains with Shep giving their opinion on everything, while ME2 had squadmates giving their opinions on things as Shep asked leading, formulaic questions. I wish they could give both good characterization in the same game.
I felt the opposite way.
Shepard's ability to form friendships with a lot of these characters, and to participate in their stories, fleshed him out as a human being.
His friendship with Thane in particular, where you can relate to him as a fellow killer and discuss his past.
Same with Samara.
Jack and Miranda don't offer this at all, but you can find bits if it with Garrus and Tali.
Ugh I hate Arrival. It sets up all the problems with ME3 when Bioware had an opportunity to pivot away from "All out Reaper War" which is my main problem with ME3's story. The Reapers were set up to be godlike in their power. Fighting them at all makes no sense and basically ensures the writers had to pull a magical space maguffin out their asses in order to account for the premise.
@Blood in the Water I really like your idea of seeing the reapers slowly encroaching on the galaxy, while the rest of the galexy tries to find a way to stop this force of nature.
I find the reaper war in me 3 was too quick at the start. I know they wanted to have a war is hell naritive, but I think seeing the reapers just paint the galaxy from one end would really hammer home how hopeless the situation really is.
You've kicked my nostalgia in the nuts, ouch!
That said, I really enjoyed ploughing through the video; top notch presentation. It's a strange realisation to see most of my problems with ME3 actually starting with this game, which I've been praising for years. Can't wait to see your conclusion to the trilogy!
2:30:59 I have to disagree with you there, bud. The Collectors being Protheans fits with the Lovecraftian themes. One of Lovecraft's central themes is corruption of civilizations and races.
The problem was how Mass Effect 2 and 3 handled the Reapers, but the Collectors fit in well as horrifying figures in the Mass Effect universe.
They fit even better without being the protheans (and the retcons that came with that), so
When the corruption is made into ‘cybernetics and inbreeding lol’ it lessens mystery and impact for very little gain
It's so wierd how, in the late 00's and early 10's, cover-based shooting was such a popular mechanic that it even infected genres other than shooters. Then, almost overnight, the entire industry turned against it.
On nexus mods, theres a mod that lets you scan every resource from every planet in one go. its a necessity.
Maybe I'm just weird, but I actually liked the scanning. Put on a video like this, kick back, scan as much as possible for a couple of hours when I don't feel like doing anything involved.
Scanning was something to do while watching listen to podcasts and the like but then again I was the kind of person who when finding out about scanning and realizing I could go to Sol right off the back I went to probe Uranus. It was worth sending that probe.
@@stevenwebb3475 this MUST be an achievement, introduced with the next patch
Proving how pointless the mechanic did. I wish they just gave you upgradeable materials at the end of each mission, call it “Cerberus funds,” or something. Help upgrade level pacing
STOCKS
The pinnacle of state of the art, modern research techniques! : Using a hammerhead hovercraft and pressing the 'research' button over a glowing circle!
Love this perspective. Particularly appreciate your commentary on how bizarre the heel-turn was for our soft spoken academic Liara. It's like the writers got their wires crossed and made Lilliana part 2 for some awful reason. I always felt this but could never quite express it. Mass effect 2 was more polished but always felt a bit emptier, thank you for taking the time to articulate how the series changed.
"ME2 had colour-coded endings, just like ME3."
In fact, even ME1 had colour-coded endings. The last screen with Shepard posing in front of a planet? Yeah, that can be either bright blue or dark red, depending on your morality score.
But I'm not quite sure why TIM's star changes colours when ME3 confirmed it's an actual, real star and not some fancy screensaver.
i think the difference is that ME1 and ME2 had an actual ending with a climax and it was someone spouting exposition before you picked which color ending slide you get. It was more of a subtle nod towards the big choices you made in the game. It was a note on the ending, not the ending itself.
Man I must’ve really loved ME1 , because this is reminding me of all the things I hated about ME2. I think if it wasn’t widely considered a great trilogy, I wouldn’t have fought through it. I hated scanning, I hated that they force-fed me all these ally’s I don’t give 2 shits about and still don’t. It’s like I did everything needed to save a crew at the collector base and didn’t even really care about them. ME1 let me pick my team. ME2 forced them on me. If I didn’t like an ME1 squad mate, I just never picked them.
Both games force you to pick up a team.
I always prefer Mass Effect 1, the world building was great. Even the combat is ok but I like the rpg elments and felt 2 cut too much out. Some of the characters changed too much in 2 and I hated how they kill of Commander at the start of the game. Thank you Private Sessions for the in depth video on Mass Effect 2
When ME2 first came out, I was the only one in my friend group that hated it. I couldn't articulate why in such a convincing way, but my points boiled down to: The Shepard I played in ME1 would never work with Cerberus, and that the ending of ME2 was so unsatisfying that ME3 would have to be a masterpiece to justify it. I wish I had this video in 2010
Absolutely agree about Liara, I was so sad to see the change they made with her, as much as I still loved her I was sad that the Liara from ME1 was just gone and the voice change they made Ali Hillis do didnt do her any service either. Her behavior towards Shepard also shocked me when I was playing the game for the first time and the DLC wasnt out yet, it was so surprising that she didnt come with us and how little time she made for us as well.
The personality switch was so off to me that i couldn't tell if it was bad writing, good writing in the sense she was fooling us all along, or to take it at face value of a good girl gone bad
So I’ve always low key hated garus becoming space punisher.
Like it kinda fits I guess but it seems like the more likely path would be for him to have become a specter himself.
They could still do the cool nickname and have Shepard tracking down an upcoming specter rumored to be almost as good as Shepard.
The reveal is still cool and it would be more interesting to see garus literally try to fill Shepard a shoes.
That’s a much more interesting arc than “boy I wish I could shoot more dude, then geez shooting lots of dudes is hard, then geez preparing my people for the reaper invasion is hard.”
Dude is the Christopher multisanti of this game.
Also Miranda being like the first mate kinda blows, garus would be the better fit.
He’s snarky yet professional he was made to deliver exposition
It's really weird seeing someone take the Renegade route so seriously.
Thank you, I always thought renegade, for the most part was way to silly and made no sense, except for playthroughs to screw around.
@@darthdragonborn1552 it's because of how inconsistent it is. Renegade is supposed to be pragmatic leader to whom the end justifies the means, while paragon is a heroic idealist leading by example, but they've just clumped all evil/asshole/stupid options into the renegade, making him into edgy and stupid asshole. A lot of renegade options is simply being mean for no gains whatsoever, and just killing people for no reason. It just flip flops between pragmatic leader and an violent idiot with anger issues.
Yeah, Shepard's such a cartoonishly evil prick on Renegade that I've never been able to take it seriously.
As someone who played paragon the first time through and has a hard time replaying some games, I appreciate a serious take on the renegade side for once.
I take it seriously
Whether the Devs intended it or not, the beginning of ME2 tells us exactly what is happening- ME1 is Dead. Something that LOOKS like it is being brought to life & put in its place.
Unfortunately.
@@dorottyapapp Very true. ME2 may have better GAMEPLAY, but it is a severe step down in nearly every other respect.
So in a recent playthrough of ME2 I got to the collector ship and was reminded of something you said in this video. You mention that it was somehow a 'leap of logic' that your shepard figures out they're targeting earth(or that the squadmates do), but it might just be an issue of which squadmates you have.
I had Mordin and Tali with me and Mordin makes a comment on seeing how many pods "They could depopulate every colony in the Terminus Systems and still have room"(which if you actually check the colonies, is in the millions, if not more), and then Tali states "They're going after Earth", which is a lot less of a leap of logic than you make it sound. There are way more pods than the targets they've been going after, to a significant degree, and since they're collecting humans, that really only leaves one option as to where they'd be going, doesn't it? There aren't any other human colonies they could be going to with that many pods ready for use.
Furthermore, if you do Mordin's loyalty mission before the collector ship, then you get some additional insight on why the collectors are targeting humanity the way they do.
3:36:05 the morality system breaks down. period. it's extremely flawed, they bundled cold and calculating bastards with seething, brainless bully maniacs as both Renegade. even Jade Empire did dual morality system better, because it featured in-lore commentary of how bullies think they follow the Way of the Closed Fist but in reality they misunderstand it completely. Paragon/Renegade system isn't even slightly self-aware and most choices in all 3 games suffer extremely from that lack of depth.
I agree with alot and disagree with a fair amount of your points, but me1 set up the future so perfectly then the 2nd game doesn't move the story forward and undoes it, somewhat, then the 3rd clunkily trues to wrap it up before its ready. I wish I had a billion dollars to buy the franchise and remake it
I'm definitely in the camp of people who have loved, loved, loved Mass Effect 2 since it came out, and continue to love it through repeated playthroughs. I typically play through the trilogy about once a year. I don't think I'd say I overlooked its glaring flaws - and besides a few quibbles, I don't disagree with really any of your points - and more just accepted them because the FEEL of the game is just so good. My two criticisms of the first game (and I'm with you that it's a masterpiece of world building) were that the endless driving and cookie cutter missions were a slog, and that the crew interactions showed incredible potential but didn't quite deliver. It's clear with how Mass Effect 2 plays that Bioware focused ALL of their energy on these specific areas, and they knocked them out of the park. Yeah, Jacob isn't satisfying and Garrus is criminally underwritten, but from Joker & EDI being a comedy duo, to Mordin's insatiable energy, to Grunt's endearing mix of skullduggery and philosophy (he's the only Krogan in the franchise who ever asks WHY they rage and fight), and of course to Tali just being the cutest thing in the galaxy Bioware delivered on making the game just feel great. It's inescapably charming, from start to finish, and for me - and I would guess for the multitude - it's this charm that whitewashes everything else. We love it so much that everything is viewed through rose-coloured glasses, not just in retrospect, but from first sight. That's the lightning they caught in a bottle here.
And yeah, that's precisely the lightning they didn't catch with ME3, even as I still find so much joy in playing through it, due to my love for the series (and some character arcs that conclude in a truly gorgeous way in that game. The strength of the world building in the first game was so strong that they were able to coast on shoddy writing and wacky choices for almost two more games, before it finally came off the rails. So, in a way, that Mass Effect 2 is held up as the crown jewel is itself a testament to just how fantastic the first game was. Mass Effect built such an incredible, lush, rich galaxy that they could make a game with so, so many lazy, sloppy, or just plain bad choices and still couldn't miss.
Outstanding video. I'm so glad I came across it a year later.
Calling Morinth a 'space vampire' is irritating to me. She is a succubus, not a vampire. She even behaves like a succubus.
I wish they had done more with her. Her character is more interesting and I love her voice actress. Annoys me that she poses as Samara lol
@@MistahJay7 I A)Don't know why she had to pose. Like, what is the rest of them gonna do? Samara isn't with us anymore. End of story. B)I think that it would have been cool to see more of Morinth like asari. Would be such a cool thing for the most loved and diplomatically successful race to have this dark side of these viscious space succubi out there. And with how many Banshee there are in the 3rd game... kinda feels like it could have actually been a thing.
@@christopherhartford5066 Right? Her posing never really made sense for my renegade Dhepard. Like they would I give a shit what the crew thinks wether I have Samara or Morinth. Especially characters Like Jack. Like they care LOL Im so disappointed that Morinth just gets so little dialogue of her own as I think she is much more interesting over Samara.
@@MistahJay7 I just don't see it. Samara to me is one of the best asari characters. She is such a tortured soul. Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry for Morinth in a way, she got delt a bad hand. But she had a choice to make and she deserves no sympathy or mercy. She doesn't better anything in the galaxy. Samara is like second best boy Thane as she fights to better the galaxy by removing horrible people who choose evil. I find Samara's sacrifice inspiring. I find nothing inspiring about Morinth. She is the exact opposite and encapsulates selfishness. She is a zero sum character because she creates voids where ever she goes. Morinth actively makes the space around her lesser and it's partly by choice.
@@MistahJay7 I hope you take this as I just simply disagree with your opinion but nothing more and a basic explination of why I have a different one. Because at the same time, the implications of Morinth as a character and what that means for the asari is just as interesting in it's own way. I actively save Samara and her daughters in the third game even though the Reapers could still turn them. But they try to add to the galaxy and their community instead of take. Morith actively chose to take only for herself. That's just not interesting to me as a character. Meanwhile Samara giving up literally everything to stop that darkness and the pain she bares... That is something I am drawn to and I find intriguing.
So, this video (and your channel in general) has been on my “must watch” list for a while now, and I finally got around to seeing it, and I’ve gotta day, this is amazing. I was going to avoid making a video on Mass Effect since it’s a bit over saturated, but you’ve reminded me how much good discussion is left on the subject.
I started with ME2 and haven’t spent most time with the first game, so I never noticed many of your criticisms, but they definitely make sense after hearing them. I feel like I’ve seen EA’s “better Mass Effect” with the Dead Space games by this point (even the Dead Space “reapers” are done better). 10/10 video, I will have to find another slow day at work to check out your other ones.
I totally agree on the Dead Space thing. While it doesn't reach the same peaks in quality as Mass Effect (1), it's a much more consistent and thus much more enjoyable overall experience. Never once playing the Dead Space trilogy did I ever feel utterly flabbergasted, baffled, disappointed and shocked to see just how poorly the story is folding out in front of me.
At around 1:40:00...
Regarding the confusing dialogue with Ashley and lack of motivations for Shep to work with Cerberus....
My reaction as a player was "... How did me dying translate to a betrayal?" It is also kind of interesting as Ashley was the one more inclined toward more anti-xeno ideas. It would be easier to accept her getting fed up with the alliance and going to work for cerberus to protect human interests rather than play palace guard.
I honestly have to wonder if the original script for the game and voice acting for many of the characters was done with a generally different plot whereby Shepherd joined Cerberus because edgy heroes were in vogue. But then someone had to stop and inform everyone that... Maybe ... Some people wouldn't want to join cerberus... And so the intro is not an intro, but a hasty attempt to justify why we made the choice to join cerberus as ... You know... Players who wouldn't do that.
Or perhaps there was some plan for many different ways ME2 could have gone and the cerberus arc was just one of two or three... Then the development cost estimates came in and here we are. Perhaps we were supposed to have fewer characters pertaining to our original choices, but who needs squad tactics when you can deploy a whole platoon of characters?
I always felt like a good chunk of the game was missing, and Ashley's line here makes me wonder if it was recorded as part of script proposals when her actress was part of ME1 and they just kind of shoehorned it in... Or something.
If we consider how half the writing team was replaced mid development, it could also be some parts were unfinished and the new writers had to work quickly to patch things up.
I like your comment, it provoked some thoughts in me.
Regarding the idea of a different plot in the beginning of the development. Virmire survivor's appearence is indeed like from another world, or from another script, their aftermath letter included. They don't care about the colonists as if they don't exist. In the letter both say how they had seen so many people die on Horizon... what? Noone died. They were taken away. As though the original idea of the encounter included no paralysis bugs and no kidnappings. The impossible survival of the VS when they can't even fight back (remember, the Collectors came specifically for them, the VS was literally the first person paralysed, but, well, remove the stupid inconsistent cutscene from the game, and it will make more sense) wasn't, in fact, impossible. What if the VS, perhaps along with a military unit, was actively fighting back the "Collectors", who murdered everyone on sight? And they didn't succeed to keep everyone alive.
Regarding the hostility of the VS towards the player. In their eyes, Shepard was working with Cerberus who was working with the "Collectors". Maybe that's why they arrived so conveniently to the scene. Why bother saving all these people though? Seems counterproductive. The VS then argues - what if the player is being manipulated into believing that Cerberus is saving anyone at all? Perhaps they needed to save that "friendly face" to preserve the illusion. It didn't go well at all, as even a romanced VS is not convinced, refuses to join you, possibly breaking your heart. The TIM then specifically asks you if you will allow past relationships to get in the way. But, maybe, it was the plan all along, to sever your links to the alliance to have you fully commited (a variation of the plot where you could join Cerberus full time?) We know that the TIM have staged the whole attack on the location. Why can't Cerberus actually be working with the "Collectors"? The latter are known to communicate with other species to trade technology or something. What if they made a deal or something? At that point of the story how can we know for sure?
Finally, we can also go deeper, and accept "Paragon Lost" a me cinematic, introducing James Vega and his unit taking on the Collectors, as canon. It takes the idea to a new level, introducing a new perspective, it has some fundamental flaws, but basically confirms the VS was right. The cinematic even introduces an antidote which would break the paralysis even if taken prior to the injection, the idea itself fixes the inconsistency between the stupid cutscene and the conclusion of the level, although, probably, not possible chronologically. Almost makes we wonder if "Paragon Lost" plot was originally meant for the VS.
Kudos for plugging in Brigador soundtrack in the background! ME 2 is my favorite of the series, but your critical analysis made me realize what problems I had closed my eyes on to enjoy this game. In a way, it made me understand and appreciate the game better. Thanks!
When I saw the 5 hour time of this video, I thought "this will get boring fast"...but it didn't. Extremely in depth analysis of this game. I personally agreed with much of your take on the loyalty missions. Tali and Legions are excellent, Thane and Kasumi's are good because it is different and most of the rest are either ok or just there. BTW... Always destroy the heretic geth lol for the sake of ME3.
So excited for this one😁 Agreed with vast majority of your opinions on ME1 , but my feelings on ME2 are opposite what most people think about it. My least favorite of the trilogy. For the most part I really appreciate the combat changes, in large part because they set the foundation for the amazing combat of ME3
But other than combat and a few of the better quests Garus', Liara's and Kasumi's if were including dlc, and obviously the suicide mission was mostly dope as hell. But other than those examples, the majority of game 2 feels like filler they made up at the last minute. Shadowbroker and stolen memory dlc being some of the few parts that feel like they were actually crafted with the same passion and attention that created the first game. Which is no doubt why they're some of the best content in ME2.
After the wild space opera that is ME1, I think the last thing any of us expected was a damn filler episode!!😭
The whole story of mass effect 2 could be a side quest or an expansion pack. It added nothing to the reaper plot. I loved the game but even then I saw it.
The critiques on the gameplay from combat to scanning to the star map navigation to the general movement jank are so spot on, it is actually giving me flashback memories to playing the game in a vivid way that all the story and visual elements on display, while i recognize them, are failing to create that nostolgia. It really was a very clunky shooter, cab't wait to move to ME3 and horde mode krogan-melee/shotgun one-shot charger-tank builds. More later...
Later: the guy exclaiming "you murdered them! In cold blood!" clearly would prefer if you let the angry Batarian who just raised his weapon again and pointed it right at said guy's face while ordering his lackeys to "kill them all" unload a few shots first before opening fire....in the spirit of fair play, i guess?
Honestly agree with the sentiment that 2 started a lot of the flaws 3 would expand upon. Started LE as my first entry into the series and I have to say I could feel a definite change of tone into something I could only say was a lot less like what the original mass effect did, and was more like what I image a Mass effect tv drama would be like
*which isn't a bad thing on its own, but I think I could feel the game starting to be more about plot beat then plot detail, as it ramped up its scope from robot invasion to god king invasion. It lost a lot of the charm the world felt in 1.
Looks like we're about to find out about said TV drama....
Firewalker on Insanity shaved years off my life.
I think you're slightly off with the critique of the Collectors being Protheans. It is well established that Reapers corrupt the organics they conquer and turn them into monstrous slave soldiers. It was easy to think Collectors were a strange new alien race, but every husk was a hint to their being a twisted remnant of a subsumed race, we already know they serve the Reapers so it isn't the sudden leap of exposition you painted it to be. I'm not saying it was as well established as it should have been, and there is the bizarreness of the Collectors having existed for millennia, but it does have some setup.
The worst part is the retconning of Prothean physiology, which you mentioned in the ME1 video. Sure, if the Collectors had looked anything like the sculptures on Illos, it would have been way too obvious, even ME2 Shep might have figured it out. Even so, it's a cheap trick, which makes it the one sticking point in the Collectors' origin for me.
I'm still with PS, Mass Effect 1 established a completely different fate for the Protheans, and I feel that turning them into mindless husks we can shoot at does nothing but take away their mystique only because they wanted a cheap, shitty twist that the story does nothing with. Besides, why bugs if they're meant to be husks? Shouldn't they look more like the husks in Mass Effect 3 than bug monsters? It's not like it would've mattered whether they were disguised or not, aliens are aliens. It would've been better if they never even explained what the Collectors are, like the Keepers. Were they another race the Reapers enslaved eons ago? Were they a completely artificial creation to act as the perfect puppets? Who knows and who cares, because the story does nothing even when they are revealed to have a deeper backstory anyway.
Liara was my favorite character in ME1. Then I played the sequel and dropped her for Tali. I hate the shadow broker arc.
I'm sorry man but if you picked Garrus as your tech expert it's absolutely your fault he got his head blown off. You had Tali, Legion and Kasumi literally sitting right there and decided Garrus was a more qualified tech expert. Sure, he had half a blue bar in ME1 but that in no way makes him a tech "expert". Maybe "good", or "skilled" or "experienced" but never "expert". They literally give you a description of every characters' skills and talents in the selection menu. I don't know what Garrus' says off the top of my head but I know it absolutely does not say "tech expert".
By your logic should Thane have been able to hold the biotic barrier, because he's a biotic sniper the same way Garrus is a tech sniper. If Wrex was playable in this game he would have been a better example, since he got half a purple bar. But if he was playable, would you have picked him, under the reasoning that he had half a purple bar in the last game?
I actually agreed with a fairly decent portion of this video. I was very upset when this game abandoned the course that ME1 charted. But I learned to like the game for what was.
There's also a very large portion I disagree with too. Quite a few of your points range from mildly nonsensical to just full blown false. Happy to get into it in the replies, but this comment is long enough for right now.
I disagree with the notion that Shepard chasing down Geth is out of character, and that he wouldn't "waste his time" with Geth after defeating Sovereign. If you're a true Mass Effect player, your Shepard has been sent on dozens of small scale missions just like this throughout the first game. "Hey Shepard, there are missing ships over here, would you check it out?" is one of many scenarios for side quests in ME1.
Also, I disagree with the constant lambasting of minor plot points. Probably half an hour is dedicated to offshoots about how one plot point here or there is somehow nonsensical or too convenient. Mass Effect is essentially a golden age scifi story in video game form, and such conveniences are standard for the genre. Look no further than the fact that every woman you meet is a princess/heiress. To complain of plot contrivances is like complaining that there are eggs in your omelet.
Yea its like a part of me enjoys his commentary then I realize half the time he is bitching and whining over the little's of things that any person can nitpick of any other game lol
Yeah I feel like at a certain point these long form retrospectives start to go in bad faith. I get ME1 was cool but sometimes you're warned it's style over substance.
Thats also something i pointed out in my comment. You can clearly see he doesnt like Mass Effect 2. Thats fair tastes are diffrent. And he actually makes a lot of good points and arguments.
But a lot of his complains are just out of the blue, very nitpicky and just here to make the game look bad.
I also watched his video on ME1 and he lets ME1 get away with many problems and plot wholes he would have heavily criticized if they were in ME2
They missed the chance to remake the series with the Legendary Edition, you know, make it a cohesive whole and not just a series of top-notch if inconsistent world and character-building vignettes.
Even if they tried it's just not the same bioware. The remaster destroys a lot of atmosphere, especially in 1.
I don't think they understood why things were a certain way and so just blindly changed lighting and textures in an attempt to look "next gen". The most obvious example is seeing sovereign on eden prime.
They didn’t even bother fixing the glitches from the original game in Legendary Edition e.g. Conrad’s broken dialogue in ME2 & Zaeed’s broken dialogue in ME3, so I’m not surprised they didn’t go for full blown retcons.
1:02:00 I'm surprised you didn't mention the balcony in Hock's mansion. The view from it, together with the music, is the only thing in ME2 that makes me feel this weird, palpable feeling of something greater, just out of reach, that the first game is filled with.
Fantastic vid. I played ME2 before 1, back when 2 came out, and considered it the best game I'd ever played for a while (I was 15 or so at the time), so this was a very interesting take. I have to disagree with some of your smaller points about companions, but I fully agree with most of what you say. When I first played this, having not played the first one, I loved the characters, I loved the combat-picked Vanguard on my first go, and oh man was I enjoying myself-and I loved doing an Insanity run with every class. But after playing ME1 (and then ME3, after that came out), I have to agree that ME2 is a good game when taken in a vacuum. I don't know how one could call it the best game of the series, unless "least worst game in general" is meant (and even then, I'd give that title to ME1. Its combat isn't _that_ bad.). ME1 has a significantly better story and worldbuilding paired with lacklustre combat, whilst ME3 has heavy melee and more fun combat, but a dogshit story. ME2 is the red-headed stepchild in the middle, with great combat and a not-particularly-good story that ends up being a pointless side quest that doesn't amount to much in the end. But hey, at least we have Miranda.
The point you make about the colour-coded ending is great. To draw a (possibly tired) comparison to everyone's favourite Star Wars, I, for one, kind of enjoyed "The Force Awakens" though I had my issues with it, as I assumed or hoped its sequel would fix things. Instead, we got what we got. I imagine the same thing having happened here with ME2 and 3, although I can imagine this ending was much, much worse for those who played the first game. I knew nothing about anything by playing ME2 first, so I didn't mind it much. In hindsight, after playing ME1, this game's plot is absolutely horrific and an insult to all the setup and richness that the first game developed.
Still re the ending, you also make an amusing point about blowing up the base. Of course it makes sense to keep it if the reapers are coming; that didn't stop teenage me from generally blowing it up (mostly because that's what I came to do and because the illusive man was shady, I think). Reminds me of a particularly terrible episode of Stargate SG-1 where, with our present-day Earth threatened by murderous high-tech aliens, the level-headed military commander and all-around badass chooses not to gain access to free super-high technology because the person offering it is "bad". In a war for survival, that doesn't make any sense at all, especially when you can dictate the terms of how this tech will be researched and used; in the Illusive Man's case, it's a little shady indeed, but still, keeping the base is a valid option for consideration indeed. (If we handwave getting to it, of course).
Naturally, all of this is rendered moot by the fact that Cerberus turns evil and gains everything anyway. Kill the Rachni queen? Oh, they made a new one. Blow up the base? Oh, they get the tech anyway. Maelon's research? Keiji's greybox? Doesn't matter if you destroyed all that, it's still there in ME3. What a waste of potential.
By the way, Kasumi's flashbang grenade is an incredible skill to have, even on Insanity. I always pick it up on a Vanguard. Much better than Zaeed's limp grenade.
On DLCs: When Lair of the Shadow Broker came out, I completed it in one go, getting truly lost in it. It was just too much fun. When Arrival came out, I played it once, thought it to be awful, and was utterly aghast when I realised that ME3's beginning is predicated on this shit having happened. I enjoyed Overlord, more or less.
(Mild) Disagreements: Garrus quickly became my favourite character even though I didn't know him previously; I thought he had more than enough to say, though I do agree that his loyalty mission didn't have a good enough payoff and that I wish he had more to say in general. Jacob wasn't particularly interesting, but he did seem to be stoic and collected, and I found it obvious that he was downplaying the importance of the transmission for his loyalty mission. And as for Legion's mission, I saw a lot more of the "calculating" side than any possible naïveté. But I guess we all focus on different things when we assess a particular character.
P.S.: Surprised you didn't save the crew. They were okay, the engineers in particular. Though I guess the so-called Scotsman did commit a cardinal sin by pronouncing "Islay" wrong.
Me: "I hate movies they're too long"
Also me: * watches all of this in one go *
Who hates movies?! xD
@@KaptainKerl superhero movies have become lackluster and anything with chris Pratt if you got soul
yea its almost as if this isn't a movie
Holy hell, I forgot how much of a murder hobo renegade Shepard is.
Is there something I can do for you?
[SOUNDS OF A MAN BEING VICIOUSLY BEATEN]
[SEVERAL SECONDS PASS. SHEPHERD LOOKS UNPERTURBED]
Whatever he did, he probably deserves worse.
[BEATING CONTINUES]
My intro to this series was ME2, the Bargain Shop (Now called Red Apple, apperently it was always called that for Americans) in my home town was selling a copy for like 6 bucks. Brought it home and installed it, started playing with only a vauge idea of what the franchise was about. It hooked me pretty good, and I beat it reletively quick given my usual pace in games. Now it's still my only Mass Effect Experience, which I plan to rectify eventually, and even so it stands as a favorite of mine
You should read Sheamus Young's Mass Efffect Retrospective over on Twenty-Sided. Its an enormous read but highly interesting for the series overall.
It's a fantastic analysis. I loved reading the articles as they came out, and the subsequent debates in the comments.
Edit: It's Shamus Young on D20. Would Highly recommend the read and a delve into the comments for deep discussion on the lore and universe this series so expertly set up in ME1.
The most annoying thing for me about this game is that everyone called me a space racist because I decided to focus all my attention on saving the galaxy instead of saving the council. The way I saw it during my first playthrough was a trolley problem and I sure as hell wasn't potentially leaving the entire galaxy to die in order to save a few assholes!
Well it wasn't just the Council, there were who knows how many Asari on the Destiny Ascension that you let die if you choose that option. Space racist is taking it a little too far in my eyes, but Shep should have been called out about everyone who died on that ship because of their decision to tell everyone to gun straight for the Reaper while completely ignoring the Destiny Ascension's distress call instead of making it just about the Council.
I am happy you mentioned the Zaeed endings and how varied they are. My recent playthrough, I had saved the civvies, generally being renegade but only if it didn't unneccessarily caused harm.
So when zaeed got caught under the wreckage, i left him to die there, it was honestly an awesome moment in the story.
I did the same type of run except I didn't leave him to die because I couldn't, there was no way unless you beat the suicide mission first
Love long form video game critiques. Awesome to see a new creator in this space. Easy sub - excited for your ME3 video and whatever comes after.
Late as hell, but only getting to this video now.
Near the end You point out the silliness of the Human Reaper. I don't hear anything about the in-universe idea of it, just complaints about visual design and BioWare's implementation of the boss.
Not sure if missing something, but just in case You also don't like the idea of the Human Reaper itself...
I always thought it reasonable. Maybe not from our pov, but say you're an "eternal" race of sentient machine gods, that put the whole galaxy in a huge terrarium and open it up to play every cycle. And every single time it's a stomp, trillions die, galaxy can't figure out what happens, much less resist. And then a human creature appears, resists indoctrination, interrupts a plan perfected through millions of years and actually kills a Reaper.
Collectors end up "killing" Shepard, but the sour taste and impossibility of an ant going against cosmic currents is so flabbergasting, the Reapers (or just Harbinger) can't resist the opportunity of trying to figure out how. Figure out how humans work, how can they use that knowledge to improve. Reapers are machines after all and despite all the god complex cases, they aim to perfect themselves if they find themselves inadequate. That's what the Human Reaper is - an experiment attempting to recreate the mystery of human element, in a look-alike shell (cause wouldn't it be funny when a Reaper resembling the human god idea descended upon Earth?). I don't think there's even a guarantee it would work and be an actual Reaper, not just a human-shaped puppet.
I agree the visuals and idea itself, even more the explanations of it in-game, could use work, but the existence of the Human Reaper in-universe does seem plausible and even justified, as far as I'm concerned.
My thoughts on the Human Reaper to make it make sense was that they take an amalgamation of the dominant species from every cycle and send them off to be the "living memory" of that cycle and just chill in dark space for eternity with the rest of them.
They would never risk losing the lifeblood of an entire cycle so those never go back into the galaxy, and the reapers we see are all the original warforms that were created at the dawn of the cycles.
But obviously that is as painted on as wookies in Star Trek with how the rest of the series played out.
And he does it again. Sessions, once again you did a damn fine job.
Am I the only one who agreed with Mordin about the genophage? I always thought it was the best possible solution in the worst possible event. The Krogan would have either won and ruled the galaxy, killing or enslaving the rest, or be completely wiped out, as it is, they survived, been given another chance and the balance of the galaxy remained. It certainly is an atrocity, but the Krogan are responsible, not the Salarians in my opinion.
The genophage was only justifiable if it was short term and they had solutions to change Krogan cultures. The Council Species did none of that. The Krogan on their home world, before being "uplifted," would kill each other and give birth at rates where the mortality rates would never overtake the birth rates. After the War they were brought down to the birth rates of other species/before Mass Effect tech and left with stronger tools to war with. The Krogan had 1,400 years of this now broken life. The Council wanted to put the genie back in the bottle when the genie already adpated to the new world. Its inhumane to essentially give all Krogan a long genocide by only touching their biology and not culture. They became mercs and had weird science experiments to try to fix themselves. While the Asari, Turians, and Salarians died leaving the Mess of the plague the Krogans were still remembering 500-1000 years later. They are a long lived species Wrex and Drack being examples of this. Image all the kids born who's fathers or grand fathers who fought in the war . The Resentment they would've had and that fatalism that lingered. To maintain this limbo for them was just as cruel if not Curlier than what they did during the Rebellions.
Salarians should have never interfered with them in the first place tho and just let them naturally evolve. Instead the Salarians used the Krogan and forced their "uplifting" on them. Mordin talks about how Salarians shouldve never done that. Krogan were still to primitive and not ready.
Similarly to 9Manny99's point, the Genophage would have been easier to swallow if it worked the way the salarians say it works: adjusting birthrates.
As it is, the Genophage is a sterility plague that causes stillbirth instead of limiting pregnancy, thus inducing unnecessary suffering and furthering krogan resentment to the rest of the galaxy. It's a punishment, not a solution. It's like if every time you tried to get pregnant it just *didn't work*, instead of something like contraceptive just preventing the issue outright. The former is devastating, and this is happening to an entire people across the species.
This is brilliant worldbuilding, IMO, as the salarians have a somewhat similar rapid birthrate without all the incredible survival genetics and long life span that the krogan enjoy. The salarians don't see it as a big deal to curtail birthrate by any means necessary in order to fix a problem, since the same restrictions to their own species would mean rapid cultural adjustment to account for such a dramatic change. The krogan, being a long lived race, have no precedent to adjusting behavior which sours their evaluation of the rest of the galaxy and forces them to live as mercenaries or else vie for a desperate breeding contract in the hope that they might have a chance to produce children. Their culture changed, but not in the way the Genophage was intended, and so it's a death knell for their people. Individualism dominates krogan culture, and the genophage didn't change that, just what perimeters constitute the right to breed: before the Genophage, it was prowess, strength, intelligence, and all those things evolution tells us are valuable for survival. After the Genophage, it's just whether or not you can produce offspring, changing their peoples' priorities drastically, which is why Wrex being in a position to lead is so critical to your decisions in ME3.
@@Poonchow You are considering this from your own view point, as said before the Krogan had 1 world and laid hundreds of eggs, do you truly think that the children, even babies, would not have chewed themselves out? Look at Tuchanka. It was a devastated hellhole before the Salarians came. The Krogan aren't angry because the Salarians snipped them. They are angry. Period. They were needed in the Rachni Wars, and given an out from their self-destructive society for that. They were also spreading like locusts, and kept demanding, then taking, then invading worlds so they had to be put back down. This is why they are angry. Because they've been put down.
I'm not gonna say that the Genophage didn't give them more of an edge, but they always had the knife.
I dont get why people think mass effect 2s combat is better, its leveling up system is completely bare bones and shallow. Instead of making some easy adjustments to the inventory system they just completely removed it. The fact that most of the classes only allow you to have 2 out of the 5 weapon classes and soldier being the max amount of weapon classes not letting you have a submachine gun. Each of the classes doesnt have a lot of powers, (mind you a lot of the abilities are still good) but it feels like almost half of the abilities are just ammo types you can "activate" for your weapons and the constant reliance of cover in combat, and that also affects the way the levels are designed where they felt obligated to add a piece of cover for every 5 steps you take. I just finished mass effect 1 and jumped straight into 2. I had my nostalgia goggles on, because mass effect 2 was my first game in the series and I had many fond memories of it. And I felt very deep in my heart that the combat was about to be leaps and bounds from what it was in the first game, only to instantly remember all the things that I hated about it come rushing back all at once. Dont get me wrong, its still a very fun game and im happy to be playing again after spending 26 hours in the first game. But I honestly think mass effect 2s combat is very bare bones with how they tried to streamline everything, they did a lot to actually improve everything I hated about it in the 3rd game
"This is about making the universe suffer as much as I suffered."
Is peak renegade play through.
As someone who loves mass effect 2 and the series in general (up to the last 15 minutes of 3) yes, the main plot has a lot of problems. However, it's the characters i'm here for, and most of my love of the series is based around these excellent characters (sit down jacob).
Having gotten that out of the way, I came to realize watching this video I think modern Bioware sucks at endings. It's not just mass effect 2 and 3 that suffers from this. Dragon age 2's ending is barely memorable besides anders fucking everything up, inquisition ends after we beat an undercooked villain with exactly zero successes under his belt, I can't even tell you the name of andromeda's bad guy even after playing the game twice, and anthem... well anthem. I think that's all I have to say. Bioware hasn't pulled off a good ending to a game for a long ass time. Good characters they have a-plenty and their stories can be hit or miss, but endings? they just plain suck at it these days, which is a shame because the original mass effect and dragon age endings were legit fantastic. It really speaks to a flaw of the company's storytelling that they make these great characters and just build plot devices around them to make stuff happen. They need to flesh their stories out more.
You mention the ‘random’ people Shepard runs into more than once and it reminds me of a concept I’ve always really liked that being meaningful strangers. People we aren’t particularly acquainted with but have left some small impact on us.
Ive always liked the protheans are the collectors reveal, it shows saren was "correct" in that organic synthetics are useful to the reapers, but as nearly mindless drones that enact the will of the reapers, the protheans didnt need a setup to be the collectors, though i do wish 3 hadnt retconned thier appearence and made the statues on ilos just... nonrelevant. Also why turn them into bugs?
I find it fitting and a bit funny that the 2 DLC companions only joined Shepard on his mission because they were paid. Get it? The player had to cough up cash for them.
I'm at the part where you dissect overlord and it's poor representation of autism and I agree but also ironically ME2 has a great representation of one of Autism forms in Mordin.
It always makes me chuckle when people find him quirky or have a hard time getting his motives because when you're autistic it clicks immediately.
You broke the only rule you cannot break in ME2. Miranda MUST stay in her white booty jumpsuit!!! Also I recommend doing EVERY side mission prior to the IFF one. Then ONLY do the Legion loyalty mission and then IMMEDIATELY go rescue your crew. And Tali & Kasumi can handle the tube-security mission. And Miranda can lead the 2nd team without losing anyone. Mordin taking the rescued crew back to the Normandy is the best call too.
I prefer her Black/Dark Blue Tight suit. But yea the one he has Miranda wearing in the video is an abomination. Like wtf is even that outfit lol her loyalty outfit is the go to.
Reapers being able to travel to the Milky Way in 2.5 years seriously makes no sense. They would have no need for Sovereign reactivating the Citadel Relay if they were capable of getting there so quickly. In ME1 they were desperate because the Citadel Relay was the ONLY way of reaching the galaxy. Conventional space travel would take so long, they would've ran out of energy and died.
And it was only 2.5 years because the Alpha Relay got destroyed. It would've been 2 years otherwise.
It wasn't their "only way" it was the quickest and swiftest.
They show up, boom, Galactic civilisation is paralysed just waiting to get finished off.
The Reapers are on the edge of dark space, basically right on the border of the Milky Way. It would take a while for them to get to the first relay but then they're everywhere. When Shepard destroyed the Alpha Relay that pushed the Reapers back on their plans by a lot of time, that is it should've. The fact it only takes them 6 months to get to the next relay is... highly questionable to put it lightly. But BioWare must've had to quicken it, also with Shepard's trial and yadda yadda yadda unimportant. The Reapers would eventually reach the nearest relay and get to Council space.
Maybe that could be a point that the Reapers had to sacrifice a percentage of their fleet for energy and thus give the galaxy a slightly higher chance of success in the war
The praetorian fight on insanity was BULLSHIT, I accidentally skipped the first 2 guys you fight before it by accessing the terminal through the wall so they fought with the flying menace but even solo that thing just hurts you
Highly disagree with Joker. He feels guilty for Shepard dying as he is the sole reason and he knows it
Ofcourse he is going to be there lol
My problem is that Joker explicitly states he was grounded for being vocal about the Reapers.
(Conclusion segment) "I don't like to dwell on what a game could've been"... Oh yes, you do; very much so. All your analysis videos echo this sentiment. Despite interesting insights here and there, that constant habit of dwelling brings down the quality of your long-form videos, in my opinion.
For Garrus you didnt get the closure because he didnt.
Was yelling this at the screen at that part. I agree with most of his points in this video but that whole section irked me. Everything he was saying I'm just sitting there like "yes.. yes, that's the thematic point actually"
If you enjoy spooky segments like the Reaper IFF mission. There is an N7 mission with an abandboned mine in the Minos Wasteland system and the level is creep with husks making all these weird groaning noises as you go through the area as they pop out of the floors and sides. It's one of those missions where you have go find yourself tho and are not told about it.
A good counter idea to Cerberus being so useless in 2 would be to just give you the option to work with them. Think of it this way; in the first game you have the potential to set up Shepard as a prohuman lose cannon with basically all the same values. You could lean further into the consequences of wiping out the council. Humans get a distasteful edge forward and the alliance gets serious about trying to make an empire. Cerberus would be more internally guided by Shepard. The Illusive man would pull back from his crazier ideas, while the alliance would be the ones who radicalize overtime. Having this path along the current cannon one wouldn't break the third game all that much either. You'd just be defending/taking back the Cerberus facilities rather than the other way around. Whatever side you don't choose becomes the indoctrinated one, and it leaves a lot of interesting possibilities for side character interactions. Ashly and Miranda would be willing to die on the hill of their original principles, while Kaiden and Jacob would see what way the wind is blowing and change sides. Wrex, grunt, Thane, and Garrus would respect you for taking a hardline approach to protecting your species but be cautious of you to various levels. Liara would be deeply unsettled, while Tali would distain but tolerate you as just another bigot she has to deal with. Samara would be indifferent, and Jack would just hate you lmao. The control ending would then only be possible if you followed this path, while the alliance would be the destroy ending. In that way both endings are much harder to get and give back a sense of agency to the player. This all just a pointless "what if", but a fun one to think about.
Or just don't use cerberus at all... I don't get it why there needs to be cerberus as a big of a deal, lol, shepard already had the bad boy edge with being a spectre and all, he had access to prototype cutting edge tech... Cerberus being big as it is, basically a private military, while simultaneously being in hiding doesn't makes sense at all. At least all these mercs private armies operate openly and have free access to suppliers of any sort given how lax the gun laws were in the both games, but Cerberus... Where do they get all this army, tech and resources for it for, lmfao? They should have been remained a minor nut job space nazi pseudoscience ragtag terrorist organization, not some super advanced space army to apparently have better tech than Alliance... Can you imagine Al Qaeda or ISIS building better planes and vehicles than US military?
Oh shit, I just finished ME2 for the first time. Excited for this one!
Any thoughts on the game?
@@Hirochicken A very good experience, I found the first few hours a bit slow. The opening was a bit silly with Shepard dying but there’s some cool dialogue options due to it. I’ve only ever played the Legendary edition so I was a bit disappointed that planetary exploration was reduced because scouting prothean relics and just generally cutting about the universe with Garrus and Tali being a rogue space chad was a lot of fun (I’m aware that in the original Mass Effect the Mako was piece of shit.) All in all ME2 is one of the greatest gaming experiences I’ve had purely because of the characters and lore, as well as the writing.
Lair of the Shadow Broker is much more satisfying if you actually romanced Liara
It has the best Romance in all 3 games that DLC alone. It's why I constantly go back to it and is the first thing I do when Horizon is finish.
You hit the nail on the head with the collector ship and dead reaper; ME1 set up the opportunity for a strong space horror setting, and I went into those missions expecting a creepy dead space vibe, but bioware failed to capitalize on it.
I didn't agree with a lot of things and anyone who changes Shepard's appearance is crazy in my opinion. But I liked the video, it was interesting.
I changed the appearance because I was dubious about their claims they fixed the custom faces in the legendary edition. Otherwise right there with you, default shep is best. Though their claims seem true, at least me1 custom faces dont turn out so unnatural.
Personal head cannon for the human reaper is that they mentioned that attempts to create a prothean reaper failed. I can only assume this was true for every other species, except humanity or something similar. So they essentially had the collectors test out if a human reaper would be possible so they can replenish their numbers and keep harvesting eternally
i always thought that ME2 got rid of so much of the stuff i cared about the most in the first game when i first played it. i felt it was part of a downward trend and ME3 kind of proved me right lol
anyway i always kinda felt alone feeling that but i guess i didn't have many friends
I appreciate you playing Renegade for these, if anything so people see some options they don't normally see. I like Shep somewhere in the middle after the events of 1. They'll do the right thing, but aren't afraid to cut corners and play dirty to get there after being forced to like Cerberus. Like being a bit jaded after things go downhill
I do agree with a lot of what you've said here. But I do disagree that there wasn't enough done to explain Liara's character change from ME1 to 2, unless you are only counting the base game. Lair of the Shadowbroker provided several conversational pieces that tell you what happened and when paired with prior knowledge of what she went through in the first game and what happened to the crew in general between the games it's honestly pretty easy to see someone change like that. I started playing Mass Effect for the first time like two weeks-ish ago (haven't played 3 yet because I accidentally let half my crew die so I'm replaying 2 again lol) starting pretty much blind. I came in only knowing that the game took place in space and a character was named Shepard. I've never looked at any of the comics either. I think the information for what changed her is all there delivered in a concise way. I imagine the comic expands upon it a lot more but the info you need to piece together how her personality got from point A to point B are all there in the DLC and some main game dialogue.
2:11:34
I’ve been struggling with this for awhile.
I think I hate Liara or rather I hate what the writers did to her in all 4 games
(Yea you heard me)
Was gonna explain my reasoning, and realized I had typed half an essay.
Put simply she becomes a bit of a Mary sue and is clearly the writer’s favorite.
If Shepherd has a “Canon” love interest it’s Liara.
I have to end it here cause I’d just keep going.
Honestly, I hate that renegade was used for this video. My favorite parts featured explanation of different options in a scenario, something I think a more neutral playthrough would have done better but what do I know. Still enjoyed the video
I was never confused by the Collectors being Protheans.
It makes sense to me that if husks exist for humans, and clearly Turians since that's what Saren became, then what about the last cycle?
Why turn them into bugs though? We've seen all the horrifying experiments they went through from the visions, why would they just be turned into bugs at the end of the day?
@@nagger8216 To me they never came across as "giant bugs", just bug aesthetics. Protheans and Collectors could very well be made of the same skin, and hell we don't know much about Prothean biology anyway. For all we know, Javik doesn't have wings because he's male. We do see in ME3 the flashback where the Protheans are fighting Collectors, to me the logic is clear, they're just husks but for Protheans. That's what they look like.
@@EvilParagon4 That still doesn't make sense though, we've seen Reaper husks from different species in Mass Effect 3 and they all share the same aesthetic the human husks from the first game did, with pale skin and blue implants with wires and metal. I always figured the Reapers at least made the Collectors that way to purposefully make them different from normal Reaper tech to avoid anyone putting two and two together so they could be some kind of secret agents for them, but if the Collectors are just normal Prothean husks that makes even less sense
@@nagger8216 I mean, we literally see them in that role in ME3.
And yes, we also have evidence from ME2 to say they've been genetically altered by the Reapers.
We could say that they're upgraded husks, ones under Reaper control but without being simple AI? The Reaper Invasion of the Protheans took 100 years, and Javik was born towards the end of it. Collectors in this case would be Prothean Husks v2, with the husks we're more familiar with being the quick and easy dragon's teeth ones that don't produce as efficient results as dedicated genetic modification.
Additionally, if we're going to question the bug appearance, perhaps Collectors have Keeper DNA in them, another Reaper controlled species.
Left behind just as vigil states. Unable to do anything besides die. After all, the reapers don’t need them. They have an entire galaxy to work with in the next cycle.
I adore Kasumi. Feels like a little sister to my Renegade Femshep. Her dialogue always makes me laugh in gameplay since I bring her on every mission and she is kinda OP with the Shadow Strike when you combine your Charge with it. It feels like some duel finisher lol I love it
I love how you added Cyberpunk 2077 music into this video. I cannot remember the name of the song but it plays during Tali's Loyalty Mission section.
You are a lot more critical of this game than I was, granted I played this before the first game. I do very much enjoy the continued Renegade nonsense because I am such a fucking boyscout I couldn't stand doing the renegade playthroughs... I might give one a try for shits and giggles. Keep up the good work.
I also wanted to find out something that took me far too long to notice after numerous playthroughs. A lot of asari dont have eyebrows but Liara does.
Here's my take on the crew's motives for going on the suicide mission
I agree with most points in this section, except for Jack and Grunt.
Jack is a thrill seeker, so a dangerous operation like this might be good fun. And after seeing Shep's abilities, and knowing her own, she might even believe it when he says "I intend to prove them wrong" in regards to the suicide mission. And I don't think she's a criminal anymore. She's a former criminal. I think, between her imprisonment, and her time on the Normandy, she's come to actually love and respect this crew. Or at least, its commander. Knowing they're going into a suicide mission, she might be invested in its survival. After being shown actual respect and comradery, treated as an equal, and getting her closure in her loyalty mission, I don't think she'd want to let that go so easily.
As for Grunt, he is a pure Krogan, meant to be the greatest warrior of their kind. What better way to prove himself as a true Krogan than by entering the Omega 4 Relay and surviving an impossible battle, completely victorious?
I think this was a very well articulated retrospective on a game that I never really felt lived up to the hype.
Around the 37 minute mark you say that the guns in ME2 lack variety compared to ME1. This is an absurd claim… In Mass Effect there were 4 guns total. All of the upgrades are stat related. The AR is still full auto on a cool down, the pistol is still full auto on a cool down, the sniper is a delete button when you’re trained for it, and the shotgun is the same but up close… at least there is the Vindicator and Avenger, the Predator and the Carnifex, the Mantis and the other one, the shotguns, the smgs… need i go on? That’s not even factoring in the collector ship guns AND the DLC guns (which cost a pittance).
At launch, ME2 only had two guns of each type, and 3 unlockable weapons with special training. That is pitiful.
ME1's gun mods system let you substantially change how the guns operated. Your assault rifle could either be a fast firing, never overheating bullet hose, or modded to he a slow firing, crit damage monster. The same thing goes for all the other guns as well. At the very least, both games are on par.
I laugh whenever someone says ME1 had lots of gun variets lol when they carbon copies with different names and stats. Idiots lmao
Mass effect 1 the sniper, pistol and assault rifle all had at least 2 variants. Semi auto, full auto and burst for pistol, burst and single shot for sniper, and burst and full auto for the assault rifle. I don’t use the shotguns so I’m not sure about them
4:28:57 I think the logic behind destroying the base could’ve been easily fixed by having us not kill the human Reaper. Why would that fix it? If they made it so we can’t destroy the human Reaper with just our pistols and we don’t know when It could activate then there’s a reasonable reason to destroy the base. Now of course some lines of dialogue would have to be rewritten, but it would at least give a reason for the destruction ending.
Coming back to this and realizing that the comments about you going "all the way" in your mass effect 3 video was from here and you were still getting even even in the next game was nice to realize
The only thing I really liked about ME2 and ME3 is that the Geth you fight are a small faction and not the entire species. Most Geth don't want to go all kill bot on organics, which totally blows apart the entire weak excuse they gave the Reapers doing what they're doing in 3.
Of course, the husks also helped in that regard, which is hilarious since that's also considered Reaper tech, making them even bigger hypocrites. It's like they're just manufacturing reasons to do what they do when it suits them, not very fitting for a force who claims that their motives and thinking are beyond the small minds of limited organic beings.
What's funny about the writing is, Dragon Age 2 was made around the time of Me2 and is the exact opposite. With DA2, they only had like 18 months, and you could feel it with the graphics and map design, yet the writing is arguably some of the best in the series. ME2, on the other hand, had a massive budget, still looks awesome, but the main story writing is atrocious with little to no scrutiny. I remember from the day when it came out, people said it was a side story at best, and the real meat was your squadmates.
If Leviathan wasn't DLC, the human reaper reveal would've made that much more sense in retrospect (imo)
The Collector's were doing R&D for the next cycle (using the race that killed one as the new base)
It was always a balance of power over in-fighting organics feeding old crabs.
I always blew up the Collector base not because of the morals, but because of who I'm GIVING it to. My choices are blow it up... or give it to the Illusive Man. I don't trust him, I never did during the game, and I'm not gonna hand him all this shit now.
I've heard Mass Effect 2 described as "the filler season" in the trilogy. If you went from Mass Effect 1 immediately over to 3, not a whole lot would really change. Liara became a spooky information broker off camera anyway, so that's out. All you'd really miss out on is the part where she becomes THE Broker. You can still show up to Tuchanka and find out Wrex is in charge of the clans through the missions in 3. Garrus would be missing his cool new scar, sure, but he could get it in 3 instead. Also, the Sidonus/Omega story barely amounted to anything anyway. Even if Tali is exiled, they still secretly keep her around because she's useful to them still, so as much as I love her loyalty mission it doesn't affect much. Cerberus goes off the deep end and antagonizes you and everyone else no matter how buddy-buddy you get with the Illusive Man (as much as the game will allow you to get buddy-buddy anyway).
Honestly, the biggest thing that'd change (that I can think of off the top of my head) is Kaidan or Ashley's attitude towards you since we'd skip the whole "you're working for Cerberus?!" conversations, and you could still just flub that and say "haha you've been in Navy jail so long that you've grown apart and they still feel bad about who you chose to save at Virmire."
I hate how Mass effect 2 forces you to stay with Cerberus
The First Time I played the Trilogy I picked "sole Survivor" background and learned how Cerberus caused the Akuze slaughter... and then I can't tell those assholes to fuck off?
@@Ale-dd3ek It was the same with me. I couldn't wait for the game to be over so I can move onto ME3 (MELE).