I've gotten a lot of comments saying I should have chosen Hartford over Atlanta. In this video, I go into detail as to why I heavily disagree with that: ua-cam.com/video/gUvJB7F3a-U/v-deo.html 5:06 I found out that Fiserv Forum *is* able to be converted to hockey usage. Also, some cities I thought about including in this video but didn't are: San Francisco Portland Salt Lake City Austin New Orleans Indianapolis Baltimore Halifax
I would agree with Baltimore for one big reason, I can testify as someone who lives there almost all of Maryland even the parts near dc identify with Baltimore teams like the Os and Ravens. The DC teams are more Virginia's thing. A Baltimore NHL team would definitely have support and automatic rivalries with DC, Pittsburgh, and possibly Philly. Plus Royal Farms arena is a good temporary arena while a permanent NHL spec arena could be built
That may be true, but don't forget that San Diego is also very passionate about their AHL team. I think either city would be a suitable place but I decided to just pick one west coast city.
Portland already has the Moda Center which holds over 19,000 for the NBA Blazers and accommodates 18,000 for hockey. It was built for NHL specifications for any future team. San Diego would have to build a new arena.
@@thesamuraifoodie San Diego already has a hockey arena. The Pechanga Center. I don’t know the minimum capacity that an NHL team has to have, but the Pechanga Arena has around 13,000 which is good enough I think
@@thebiggestmlsfan9019 San Diego has plans to build a state of the art sports arena within the next few years. People love the AHL team here (the Gulls), hockey has been exploding in popularity among the youth here, and there are a lot of Canadian transplants that live in the area. San Diego definitely would get behind an NHL team.
Re: Milwaukee Not only are the Admirals the 3rd oldest non-NHL pro hockey team in the US. But its hosted the Frozen Four three times and sold out every single game.
In the 80s, the Petits built the Bradley center for hockey--but the Blackhawks petitioned the league and the franchise fee was raised to an absurd amount and they couldn't pay it. Chicago kinda screwed that one. I hope they get a team in the future.
For all the people who believe that Atlanta is a permanent lost cause for the NHL, MLB had failed twice in Washington, DC (the original Washington Senators moved to Minnesota in 1961, and were granted the expansion team intended for Minnesota the same year, but the second incarnation of the Senators moved the DFW metroplex over a decade later), but they got a third shot (unfortunately at Montreal's expense), which eventually led to the Nationals' first World Series championship in 2019. A third shot in the NHL for the Peach State is not so far fetched if the right opportunity arises, considering that Atlanta's metro population is over 6 million, and it has several snowbirds. However, for a third Atlanta NHL team to be successful, they would need, besides owners that care long term, to build a new arena in the affluent northern suburbs (which, like most Braves fans, is where most Atlanta hockey fans reside), roughly the same size as, ironically enough, the Canada Life Centre (home of the Winnipeg Jets, aka the ex-Atlanta Thrashers); ~15,000 should be large enough for a Sun Belt market. State Farm Arena in downtown is out of the question, due to the Hawks' renovation optimizing its seating bowl for basketball. Also, the Hawks are part of the reason why both the Flames and Thrashers failed, especially in the latter case with its bickering ownership group, where practically the only thing they EVER agreed on was selling the Thrashers to True North. Gas South Arena in Gwinnett County, home of the ECHL's Atlanta Gladiators, could serve as a short-term venue, but it's nearing 20 years old, seats 10,000 in its hockey configuration, and I don't believe it's feasible, either financially or architecturally, to literally raise the roof the arena to add an upper deck.
Good idea for the arena placement! Maybe somewhere along the Red Line though, near the perimeter. Good access for cars, plus decent access for train-goers from downtown. If a competent ownership group could make that work, they could have regular sell-out crowds.
Return the Flames back to Atlanta and relocate them from Calgary, Alberta in Canada and return them to Atlanta and then Calgary would apply for a NHL expansion franchise team that would be the former WHA team Calgary Cowboys that should waited until the end of the 1978 - 79 WHA season to join the National Hockey League 43 year ago in 1979 instead of the Flames leaving Atlanta in 1980 they would have celebrated their 50th anniversary in the 2021 - 2022 season as the current Atlanta Flames and they would have celebrated their first Stanley Cup Championship in 1989 hanging up their banner at beginning of the 1989 - 90 season in Atlanta, Georgia.
Love the 40 team concept. For elevated fan interest consider geographic sub-divisions of 5 teams which springboard into four team sub-playoffs to propel 1 or 2 teams into a playoff scheme that keeps more teams engaged into the playoffs. Being an Atlanta resident I would offer that the reason the Atlanta hockey experiments failed twice is all about location, location, location. With over 6M people, you just need to put your arena in proximity to the population that would support the team on a daily/weekly/yearly basis. Locating them around the new Atlanta battery would be a good start.
They need to put the arena near I-75 and I-285 near Truist Park or in close proximity, or near I-285 at Georgia 400. These are the optimal sites. My choice for location would be to place an arena around the office park area off New Northside Drive, just north of I-285 close to the River and a few miles from Truist Park. There is plenty of land to build an arena there, as well as restaurants or something similar to the Battery. The other choice would be to build just to the north of Truist Park across from the stadium, but they'd have to buy out the owners of the current buildings in that area. If they were able to do that they could also use the Battery for pre and post Game. State Farm Arena is another possibility. This is the former home of the Thrashers, and even though it was reconfigured, it would still work for the NHL, just without adequate seating or site lines near one goal end. It could be a temporary home, if need be, until a new arena was built, or it could be the final home, but I think a new arena on the northwest or north side is optimal. Gas South Arena in Gwinnett, where the Atlanta Gladiators play, could also be a temporary home, but I wouldn't look at anything long term there because it only has around nine thousand seats, and it is so, so, so far for about two-thirds of the metropolitan area population to get to. It explains good attendance on Saturdays and the weekend, but lackluster attendance for 7 pm games on a week night. The traffic makes getting off work at 5, going home, and going through traffic very difficult for anyone other than those who live in the immediate area or Gwinnett, Hall, or Barrow counties.
I would like to see some of these teams: Quebec Nordiques, Hartford Whalers, Houston Aeros, California Golden Seals, Milwaukee Admirals, Kansas City Scouts, Cleveland Barons, Hamilton Tigers, Atlanta Thrashers, Saskatoon Blades.
This is a solid list. San Deigo can have rivalries with every Californian team. Saskatoon can become rivals with Winnipeg, Calgary, and Edmonton. Kansas City can become rivals with St Louis. Houston can become rivals with Dallas. Milwaukee can become rivals with Chicago. Atlanta can become rivals with Nashville, Florida, Tampa, and Carolina. Hamilton can be rivals with Buffalo, Ottawa, and Toronto. and Quebec City can become rivals with the Habs.
@@friedfreds4230 Please take the time to read this. Why would you not have Atlanta in the league? Atlanta has had the highest MLS attendance for six years running, by far. It isn't even close. Atlanta had the fourth highest MLB attendance in 2022. The Falcons are in the top half of NFL attendance. The Hawks are near the middle of the pack in NBA attendance. Thus, where is this irrationality of Atlanta coming from? Atlanta lost its teams having to do with certain circumstances that COULD HAVE HAPPENED ANYWHERE. It is not a reflection of the city. The Flames left because owner Tom Cousins was a real estate developer and during the Jimmy Carter administration, interest rates were increased dramatically. This increase in interest rates about tanked his business. To keep it afloat, he sold off his profitable asset, the Flames, TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER, which just so happened to be someone who TOOK THEM TO CALGARY, DESPITE MULTIPLE LOCAL BIDDERS. If he had chosen any other, the Flames would probably still be in Atlanta, and Calgary would have gotten an expansion team later. The Thrashers left do to some unfortunate circumstances. The Thrashers, originally owned by Ted Turner, was acquired by Time Warner in an acquisition of Turner Sports. This included the Atlanta Hawks of the NBA, the rights to Philips Arena, and the NHL's Atlanta Thrashers. Time Warner had the hair brained idea to merge with AOL, having no foresight that dial-up internet wasn't long standing. A few years later, AOL-Time Warner, the company as it was called, started facing financial hardships as the transition away from dial up internet took place. In order to stabilize the company, they sold their sports franchises, the Hawks, and Thrashers, and the rights to Philips Arena AS A PACKAGE DEAL. It is the package deal that was the root of what led to the Thrashers' demise. You see, it allowed a group of investors from various cities who WANTED A BASKETBALL TEAM, named ATLANTA SPIRIT GROUP, LLC, who acquired the Thrashers as a way of also getting the Hawks. Most had no interest in hockey, and most wanted to sell the Thrashers right after acquisition. There was a lone investor who did want the Thrashers, and in order to prevent the sale, he took the other investors to court. They lost a tremendous amount of money in LITIGATION COSTS, while simultaneously used most of their revenue to acquire Hawks players for exorbitant salaries, namely Joe Johnson. This left little for the Thrashers and is responsible for their continued dismal performance on the ice, having only one playoff year in which they were swept. Litigation costs forced the Thrashers to sell off most of their good players, and shortly after, the court ruled that Atlanta Spirit Group, LLC, could sell the Thrashers. Atlanta Spirit Group sabotaged any potential buyers keeping the Thrashers in Atlanta. For one, they would not allow any new owner to receive any revenue from concessions or parking, as since Atlanta Spirit Group would still own Philips Arena (THE RESULT OF THE PACKAGE DEAL), Atlanta Spirit Group would get that revenue, not the new Thrashers owners. Secondly, it has been stated multiple times that Atlanta Spirit Group was looking to get the relocation fee from the NHL. They also apparently did not want to have to compete with the Thrashers for fans, and wanted to have Atlanta all to themselves in winter sports with the Hawks. Atlanta Spirit Group also wanted a fee from any potential buyers to USE THEIR ARENA. The loss of revenue coupled with fees to Atlanta Spirit, as well as Atlanta Spirit not taking considerably any strong contenders for sale to keep the team in Atlanta, resulted in people unwilling to take a risk, since this setup would have bankrupted any city's sports franchise. The league was also not flexible in 2011. They would not allow the Thrashers to play at the Gwinnett Arena, an arena that holds about 9,000 fans. Years later, they went off this and now are allowing the Coyotes to play in an arena of about 4,000-5,000 fans. The recession was in full swing during the Thrashers' departure, so this didn't exactly help things either. All this said, it is easy to see that Atlanta's movements had nothing to do with attendance, and all with ownership. Atlanta never was last in attendance, and outsold the Bruins, Blackhawks, and Penguins some years. Atlanta is also a huge city that makes some of these other cities that people list as possible expansion sites look like little cities. Atlanta has the third largest urbanized, built-up area in the USA, and fourth largest in the world. Kansas City? Really? They have less than one third the population of metropolitan Atlanta, and it will become even less than that as Atlanta has robust growth, while Kansas City is kind of stagnant. Atlanta metro has about 6.2 million, while Kansas City has just over 2 million. Lastly, Atlanta and Kansas City both play in the ECHL, and Atlanta's attendance is FAR LARGER. Atlanta's attendance is about sixty percent greater than Kansas City's in 2023. Plus, Atlanta's arena is situated in the far northeast corner of the metro, not downtown, and is difficult for two thirds of the metro area population to even get there, given the distance and traffic. By contrast, while Kansas City does not play in a downtown arena, the suburb they play in is far closer to downtown and is far more accessible to most of the metropolitan area population.
Most of these are extremely unlikely but KC, Houston and Quebec are the most likely. As a former Thrashers' fan, I think Atlanta would work but they'll need much better ownership than the Thrashers had. I hope the NHL is better at vetting potential owners than they were 20 years ago. And by the way, no it's not easier to sell out a hockey arena than a football stadium. Football stadiums have games about twice a month and almost always on weekends when most people are free. Hockey arenas have games about twice a week, half (or more) of which are during the week when most people are busy and the kiddies are in school.
@@owenpowell3291 probably yeah. but that's because he's trying to expand southward, among other reasons. this feels like ''bettman hates canadian teams because 1993, stanley cup, blah blah blah.'' even though thats not really the case, the cup thing is again multiple factors coming together. the owners also decide most of the things, Bettman is just the guy who announces it
When I did the exercise (before having seen the video) the only differences were that I had Salt Lake City instead of San Diego, and Hartford instead of Hamilton. However, I did consider Hamilton over Hartford and don't really have a strong preference either way.
another crazy thing about Milwaukee not having a nhl team is that out of all the usa born nhl players Wisconsin is number 7 on that list of the states. and the top 6 already have teams Minnesota, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York, Illinois and California
Milwaukee has a metropolitan area of ONLY around 1.6 million people. That is a small large city. Milwaukee should be satisfied with having MLB and NBA, and even having an NFL team in Green Bay, when there are far more populated southern metropolitan areas that have fewer teams. Atlanta and Houston should be the next two expansion sites. Keep Milwaukee AHL, move Kansas City, Cincinnati, Orlando, Jacksonville, and Indianapolis from the ECHL to the AHL. Demote some of the tiny AHL cities down to ECHL.
When the Sprint center, Now the T-Mobile center was built in 2009 in Kansas City, One of the big sells was a NHL or NBA team. But i think they would rather have big concerts then having how ever many home games for a sports team. NHL team could work but more people are gonna want NBA here.
While Salt Lake City was announced for the next team, I'll still never give up hope that another Canadian City gets a team. Hamilton is in Dire need of a Hockey team, as the local OHL Hamilton Bulldogs relocated to Brantford. Hamilton could be good, but picking a name could be hard. I'd stay "Hamilton Steelmen" could be interesting, as it references the long history of Hamilton's history of steel production. It's called "Steel Town" for a reason. I think Halifax is also a good idea for a team. If you wanted to find where some of the nicest Canadians are in our country, I'd point you towards Nova Scotia. Halifax could be a HUGE Market for Hockey, and could help breathe life into the popular Commercial fishing spot, bringing in an actual sport. For team name, I'd go the "Halifax Tempest". A Mako Shark logo could be good, not to steal off San Jose, but Halifax has also had a history of world famous Shark fishing Derbys for local culture. Treating that local culture with respect could be very cool.
I think the NHL actually will expand to either 36 or 40 teams in the future. They’re already at a disadvantage compared to the other 3 major US sports since there’s only 25 teams in the US right now. I know a lot of people don’t want it to happen, but unlike the other 3 sports, they actually have a very good reason to.
@@pkzammy666 World population keeps growing, and so does the amount of people who play hockey. Ratio would be similar to the same. I think next expansion would be appropriate in 10-15 years.
I think if done through the proper channels, Hamilton could work.. I think the biggest reason there was a lot of pushback when Jim Balsillie was trying to get a team to Hamilton was that he wasn't willing to follow the process.. I do see Buffalo getting some compensation should Hamilton get a team, but Toronto area is definitely large enough to support two NHL teams. Saskatoon is an interesting choice.. I think I'd rather see Hartford over Atlanta, but if they could get an owner/arena that actually cares about the team, it could work.
Biggest Issue is Atlanta is a natural rival to the Florida teams and should be in the same division. So instead of having 4 Division of 10 you have 8 Division of 5. Pacific -Anaheim, Los Angeles, San Jose, Seattle and San Diego Southern -Arizon, Houston, Dallas, Colorado and Vegas Northern -Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon and Winnipeg Central -Chicago, St.Louis, Kansas City, Milwaukee and Minnesota Metro -New York R, New York I, New Jersey, Boston and Buffalo Atlantic -Tampa, Florida, Atlanta, Nashville and Carolina St.Lawrence -Hamilton, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec Mid-Atlantic -Detroit, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and Washington
Portland Oregon needs a team in the national hockey League there would be a great rivalry with Vancouver Canucks and the Seattle krakens it would be the Northwest cup it would be interesting to see these teams play each other throughout the season the Portland timbers play the Seattle Sounders and it always is a great rivalry between both of them and even the Vancouver whitecaps and if Seattle SuperSonics ever come back to the NBA Portland has another great rival with that team also
@@thebiggestmlsfan9019 Is it smaller than Winnipeg? Canada is a different market than the US because Canada basically has ONE sport that they love: hockey. They dont care about much else other than hockey. The US has lots of sports of which to draw fan support, so that support can be diluted. Not in Canada!
I can never see Saskatoon (Regina as well) being able to afford an NHL team. First Saskatoon is just 350,000 people and while Regina is 2 hours away it too is very small and even combined add up to just 3/4 of Quebec City. Plus how many fans from Regina will make a 4 hours round trip by car in Canadian winters (maybe 3-5 games a year) but not 41 home games a year. You also need to find a billionaire owner who thinks NHL can be profitable in Saskatoon. Plus Add the $900,000,000 Cdn expansion fee plus the $600,000,000 Cdn cost of building an NHL size arena and 100,000,000 Cdn per year to afford NHL contracts and still stay profitable. Plus NHL would only be getting very few as Saskatchewan is already hockey crazy in already buying more NHL merchandise and NHL TV packages etc. NHL wants to expand the sport further in the USA as the USA has 9 times the population and not nearly as saturated. NHL only has 25 US cities … NBA has 29, MLB has 29 US cities and NFL 32. Only Quebec City and maybe Toronto 2/Hamilton have a chance.
@@thebiggestmlsfan9019 Great Points. I can see failed WHA cities maybe getting NHL teams. I was thinking perhaps Houston, Indianapolis, Birmingham, Cincinnati, Cleveland, and perhaps even Oakland/S.F. again. Maybe even K.C.
You could get a packed arena every night. It’s Saskatoon, there’s not much else to do. Yes those up front cost are steep but there would be butts in seats every night. Atlanta wouldn’t sell out like they do but the TV audience would be lower
To those of you who dismiss Atlanta, read my other comments. It is ridiculous for anyone to dismiss Atlanta, and if you want to be a clown who thinks that NHL in Atlanta won't work, well, that's on you. Anyhow, I'm going to post attendances by league and provide you a video of attendance. MLS average attendance 2022. Atlanta: 47,116 Charlotte: 35,260 Seattle: 33,607 Nashville: 27,554 Toronto: 25,423 Portland: 23,841 Los Angeles Galaxy: 22,841 Cincinnati: 22,487 Los Angeles FC: 22,090 Austin: 20,738 Salt Lake City: 20,470 Boston: 20,319 Minneapolis-St. Paul: 19,555 Columbus: 19,237 Kansas City: 18,365 Philadelphia: 18,126 Orlando: 17,261 New York FC: 17,180 New York Red Bulls: 17,002 Dallas: 16,479 Houston: 16,426 Vancouver: 16,399 Washington DC: 16,256 Montreal: 15,905 Chicago: 15,848 San Jose: 15,260 Colorado: 14,473 Miami: 12,637 LOOK AT THAT, ATLANTA NUMBER ONE, BY FAR: Check out this link at the 2 minute mark of our fan support. ua-cam.com/video/JA--rZMb2yI/v-deo.html Next, let's look at the MLB season average attendance for 2022: Los Angeles Dodgers: 47,671 St. Louis: 40,994 New York Yankees: 40,207 Atlanta: 38,641 San Diego: 36,931 New York Mets: 33,308 Houston: 33,197 Toronto: 32,763 Colorado: 32,467 Boston: 32,408 Chicago Cubs: 32,305 San Francisco: 30,650 Los Angeles Angels: 30,339 Milwaukee: 30,155 Seattle: 28,590 Philadelphia: 28,459 Washington DC: 25,017 Texas (Dallas-Fort Worth) 24,831 Chicago White Sox: 24,704 Minnesota: 22,514 Arizona (Phoenix) : 19,817 Detroit: 19,634 Baltimore: 17,543 Cincinnati: 17,447 Cleveland: 17,050 Kansas City: 15,974 Pittsburgh: 15,524 Tampa Bay(Tampa-St. Petersburg): 13,927 Miami: 11,203 Oakland: 9,973 Would you look at that, again. Atlanta is 4th out of 30 teams in attendance. Check out Dansby's homerun, the large crowd, and the roar of the crowd at ua-cam.com/video/eE7k3Tb0NM8/v-deo.html at the 8 : 22 mark. Now consider the latest home game as of February 8, 2023 for the Atlanta Gladiators, our ECHL team that has been in the league for 20 years and played here during most of the Atlanta Thrashers days. Great crowd, good atmosphere. ua-cam.com/video/tY2s8_sklLA/v-deo.html Let's look at when the Thrashers were here. Here is a game from the 2007 playoff game at Philips Arena against the New York Rangers, our lone playoff series. Check out the atmosphere and the packed house. ua-cam.com/video/4W0WtsMoRns/v-deo.html Next, let's take a look at just how large the Atlanta developed/built-up urbanized area is compared to other cities urbanized area (city and suburbs): www.demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf New York: 4,669 square miles Boston-Providence: 3,663 square miles Atlanta: 2,857 square miles Chicago: 2,705 square miles Los Angeles: 2,452 square miles Washington DC-Baltimore: 2,124 square miles Philadelphia: 2,096 square miles Dallas-Fort Worth: 2,038 square miles Houston: 1,904 square miles Detroit: 1,648 square miles Cleveland-Akron-Canton: 1,379 square miles Miami: 1,279 square miles Seattle-Tacoma: 1,260 square miles Phoenix: 1,250 square miles Charlotte: 1,156 square miles Minneapolis-St. Paul: 1,111 square miles San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose: 1,109 square miles Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater: 1,004 square miles St. Louis: 990 square miles Pittsburgh: 922 square miles Orlando: 832 square miles Cincinnati: 797 square miles San Diego: 740 square miles Kansas City: 728 square miles Indianapolis: 718 square miles Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill: 706 square miles Denver: 681 square miles Salt Lake City-Ogden-Provi: 665 square miles Jacksonville: 608 square miles San Antonio: 601 square miles Nashville: 579 square miles Milwaukee: 565 square miles Portland: 538 square miles Birmingham: 530 square miles Virginia Beach-Norfolk: 529 square miles Austin: 528 square miles Hartford: 525 square miles Columbus: 518 square miles Memphis: 501 square miles Richmond: 501 square miles Louisville: 489 square miles Sacramento: 476 square miles Knoxville: 438 square miles Oklahoma City: 418 square miles Las Vegas: 417 square miles Buffalo: 380 square miles Don't be ignorant on this, people. It makes you look like uneducated clowns.
I'm not fully sold on Atlanta, after they already lost two NHL teams. With the currency exchange rate putting Canadian teams at a disadvantage, Atlanta is the only US city to lose a hockey team to Canada in the modern era, and they did it twice! But otherwise I like your list. I would really have been upset if you didn't include Houston. The prospect of an archrivalry with Dallas is intriguing, but you missed the point that Houston already has a rich hockey history from the WHA days. Even literally Mr. Hockey himself once played for Houston, and won at least one championship there.
Atlanta has more white people, hockey's primary demographic (don't kid yourself, well over 95 percent of fans are white, even in very diverse metropolitan areas), than any other metropolitan area without an NHL team. Atlanta has about 300,000 more whites than Houston metropolitan area, and around one to two million more whites than any of the rest, including San Diego, Portland, and Kansas City. Atlanta IS the logical first choice, especially considering it's size, it's success with it's other franchises in attendance, and the unfortunate realities of why both the Flames and Thrashers left, having nothing to do with any lack of fan support.
I live in Atlanta and I would not give Atlanta another team. There simply isn't the interest. Oh, all the tickets will sell, just like the Thrashers' tickets sold - to corporations that rarely used them. I saw this again and again with the Thrashers. My firm had season tickets, to entertain clients. Most of the time an email went out at lunchtime of a gameday asking if anyone wanted the tickets. You'd take them and show up to a sold-out area that was never more than half-full. Stop trying to make NHL hockey in Atlanta happen. It's not going to happen. Atlanta has a big population...of people who don't give a shit about hockey. They just don't, and they never will ever. Give a team to Hartford or someone who wants it.
@@cisium1184 You don't know what you're talking about. Attendance had nothing to do with it. I don't know what games you attended, but I attended quite a number of Thrashers games, and the only one that had not very many fans was two months before the team left the city when it was speculated already that they were going to try to get rid of the team. Most of the games I attended were well over 80 percent capacity, some sellouts, and one I could only get a "standing" ticket. The Flames also had mid range attendance. 1972-1973: (16 teams) 11th in attendance ahead of NY Islanders, Pittsburgh Penguins, Los Angeles Kings, Chicago Blackhawks, and California Golden Seals 1973-1974: (16 teams) 10th in attendance ahead of Chicago Blackhawks, Pittsburgh Penguins, Los Angeles Kings, New York Islanders, Detroit Red Wings, and California Golden Seals 1974-1975: (18 teams) 11th in attendance ahead of Chicago Blackhawks, Washington Capitals, Pittsburgh Penguins, California Golden Seals, Kansas City Scouts, Los Angeles Kings, and Detroit Red Wings 1975-1976: (18 teams) 11th in attendance ahead of Chicago Blackhawks, Detroit Red Wings, California Seals, Kansas City Scouts, Minnesota North Stars, Washington Capitals, and Pittsburgh Penguins 1976-1977: (18 teams) 10th in attendance ahead of Chicago Blackhawks, Pittsburgh Penguins, Washington Capitals, Boston Bruins, Cleveland Barons, Colorado Rockies, Minnesota North Stars, and Detroit Red Wings 1977-1978: (18 teams) 15th in attendance ahead of Cleveland Barons, Minnesota North Stars, and Colorado Rockies, as well as within a few hundred of Pittsburgh Penguins, St. Louis Blues, Chicago Blackhawks, and Washington Capitals 1978-1979: (17 teams) 10th in attendance ahead of St. Louis Blues, Pittsburgh Penguins, Minnesota North Stars, Chicago Blackhawks, Colorado Rockies, Los Angeles Kings, and Washington Capitals 1979-1980: (21 teams) 19th in attendance ahead of Colorado Rockies and Hartford Whalers. The last year was really their only subpar year, and that was likely because there was news of the team leaving the city as a result of other buyers from elsewhere looking to buy the team due to Tom Cousin's financial hardships brought on by interest rates and the recession. This was excellent considering the size of the Atlanta area in the 70s. In 1970, two years before Atlanta entered the league, the metropolitan area population was only 1.7 million people or so. In 1980 when they left, the area only had around 2.2 million people. This is FOUR MILLION LESS than it currently has. The Thrashers outsold the the Chicago Blackhawks, Pittsburgh Penguins, Boston Bruins, New York Islanders, New Jersey Devils, St. Louis Blues, Nashville Predators, Carolina Hurricanes, Tampa Bay Lightning, Florida Panthers, Washington Capitals, etc. at various seasons, and regularly outsold the New York Islanders and Arizona Coyotes. The Thrashers were NEVER LAST in attendance And regarding what I have posted, it cannot be refuted. These are the facts. I have shown attendance figures for MLS, MLB, and the NHL when Atlanta was in the league. I have posted demographic data that supports Atlanta being the largest area with the most white people, the NHL's key demographic, without an NHL team. I have posted data on the size of the metro Atlanta area compared to other cities, and it isn't close. I have given the reason for BOTH the Flames and Thrashers departures and have been objective about what happened. Atlanta IS the logical choice to re-enter the league first, and putting these small cities ahead of Atlanta is just ridiculous. You ought to know that.
Alberta raivery would be really exciting, I think NHL should should look around Canada because you can end up with interesting raiveries and makes the the league way more interesting and it also attracts more fans to the games and more people watching, it would look on the NHL because more people will be buying tickets
Wisconsin is a big hockey state. The Badgers are perennial national championship contenders. Milwaukee doesn't have a team largely because it was in decline during the NHL's first big expansion, and was perceived as a dying city. It has started growing again, but not as much as a lot of other cities.
Milwaukee was awarded the NHL franchise that eventually became the Ottawa Senators. The group was led by former Blackhawks radio play by play announcer Lloyd Pettit. He and his wife Jane built the Bradley Center specifically for hockey and it was thought they were a lock to get a franchise. When Pettit was awarded the franchise and told that the expansion fee was $50million, despite the owners of the San Jose Sharks getting their team for a mere $35million plus have the roster of the old Northstars prospects/farm teams, Pettit pulled his offer to purchase. The dream of the NHL coming to Milwaukee died at that very moment. The only way Milwaukee gets a team now is if an existing team moves there. That is not likely.
I might be biased but I agree with idea idea of adding a team in Saskatoon. There are just so many hockey fans in Saskatchewan. There would definitely be enough interest for a team.
Complete agreement - other than Milwaukee - I would choose Portland. I'm an Atlantan and a new team would have TONS of support. Both our teams left because the ownership was in financial trouble. An owner with money and a commitment to drafting well and installing good hockey heads would fix that. It's not the lack of fans - they are here. Not just transplants. I would still see Flames pennants in local bars in the 2000s, when the Thrashers were going good. It's also one of the largest TV markets in the country.
I'm from Atlanta and live in Atlanta and love hockey. The big problem was that the stadium was downtown. Most hockey fans are in the suburbs like baseball. The braves recognized this and moved to Marietta and turned from one of the worst attendance teams to a consistent top 2 team in attendance.
Love both your NBA and NHL versions! I'm a hoops guy, not really a hockey guy, but one city that I think should get some NHL consideration is Salt Lake City. Their AHL team Utah Grizzlies and previously Golden Eagles from my understanding were/have been quite popular. The city is nuts for the Jazz and being a winter sports town that's way into skiing, I think the NHL would do quite well there. Plus, you mentioned how much you like rivalries and proximity. A Salt Lake City based team would form a natural rivalry with the Colorado Avalanche.
Good point. I'd totally be on board with a Salt Lake City team; the Jazz certainly have quite a strong following (I've even met Jazz fans in Toronto) and I definitely think hockey would be a great addition to the city. If the NHL were to relocate a current team I think Salt Lake City would be a great destination.
Cleveland has some promise; they've ranked in the top 3 in AHL attendance every year since 2013-14. In exchange I'd give SK a minor pro team to start & see where it goes; I wouldn't be surprised if they leapfrogged Hershey in AHL attendance & became a mainstay at the top, but I'd want to see that happen first before giving them a major pro team. FWIW the Saskatoon team's market would probably be almost the entirety of SK, at almost 1.2 million people, which is also the size of Buffalo's metro area (in the US -- but a Hamilton team would probably suck in a lot of Sabres fans from the Niagara/St Catharines ON area anyways).
Pretty much how it is now the NHL will continue to hope that Columbus Blue Jackets will take Cleveland's attention (and to an extent Cincinnati) considering how Cleveland is the stepping grounds to Columbus being their affiliate. I wouldn't be shocked if one day they rename the Blue Jackets to the Ohio Blue Jackets though to bring in all the Cs of Ohio.
I would like to see San Diego get a NHL team as they have lost the Chargers and years ago the Clippers. As it stands now all they Have is the Padres. Plus it would be great to have another team on the west coast.
I very much enjoyed your video. I agree with all of your selections, however I have a dark horse expansion city candidate I think would do really well that most people dismiss without much thought. I feel Orlando would be a brilliant expansion city for the NHL. Orlando has a large enough population and an NHL ready arena in the Amway center. They have already demonstrated strong support for their ECHL team the Orlando Solar Bears, regularly pulling over 5000 fans per game and placing between 3rd and 7th in the leagues attendance in the past decade. Orlando would also likely have a similar attendance boost as Las Vegas did with its expansion due to being one of the world's biggest cities for tourism thanks to Disney World and the other local theme parks in the area. The only detriment to this proposal is Tampa Bay being only an hour away by car, however due to the greater population of Florida and my above points, I do believe that a third team would still be well supported in the state in the same way that new york/new jersey and california do their three teams. On your list I'd likely bump hamilton or saskatoon from the list to make room (no offence to those cities, I'm Canadian myself, just makes too much sense that they would be first off the list)
I would definitely not be opposed to Orlando. I feel like hockey is really starting to take off in Florida and Orlando would be a great city for a team.
I choose my expansion team in the NHL central....Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Kansas city KS, Cincinnati, Cleveland, green bay or Oklahoma city, Tulsa and Omaha...and 2 more in NHL Atlantic..Columbia SC and Providence or either Atlanta, Birmingham, new Orleans, Orlando, Jacksonville, Baltimore MD, Roanoke VA
How 'bout Hamilton? (Ontario that is) We've got the fan base We have an arena We've got Tim Horton's Field for an outdoor game There's a possibility for a number of rivalries Toronto All of the original six franchises
Halifax is the most slept on city in Canada. Yes it has a smaller population but they are absolutely hockey crazy there. The entire maritimes would support a team. I 100% believe Halifax will one day have a team, and it will thrive
Halifax could be a good spot for a team, but the only reason I didn't mention it is because there are way too many teams in the eastern part of the continent already.
ATLANTA THRASHERS FOREVER!!!! like the city of Atlanta that rose from the ashes, the NHL in Atlanta will rise from the Ashes again!!!! All we need is a decent owner and it will thrive!!!!
40 team MLB w/ 8 5-team divisions. Include Oakland, Montreal, Chicago (if the White Sox move), Nashville, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Portland, Utah, maybe a 3rd NY team.
My version of a 40 team expansion *ATLANTIC* Boston Buffalo Columbus Detroit Hamilton Hartford Montreal Ottawa Quebec City Toronto *METROPOLITAN* Atlanta Carolina Florida New Jersey NY Islanders NY Rangers Philadelphia Pittsburgh Tampa Bay Washington *CENTRAL* Chicago Colorado Dallas Houston Kansas City Milwaukee Minnesota Nashville St. Louis Winnipeg *PACIFIC* Anaheim Arizona Calgary Edmonton Los Angeles Salt Lake City San Jose Seattle Vancouver Vegas
Very good suggestions. I like how you moved Florida and Tampa Bay into the metro. I also think Salt Lake City would be a great place for a team, it's a toss-up between them and Saskatoon for me.
I’m currently at 1:18. You’ve shown the realignment of all existing teams leaving 1 spot in the Pacific and Metro, 2 spots in the Atlantic, and 4 in the Central. I’m giving my beliefs or what cities I’m guessing for each. I’m gonna go over the amount that they have just as a cushion. Gonna put them in order of most likely to least likely Pacific: Portland, Salt Lake City, Victoria Metro: Atlanta, Baltimore Atlantic: Hartford, Quebec City, Hamilton Central: Houston, Saskatchewan, Kansas City, Green Bay/Milwaukee, Indiana, Oklahoma City I’ll come back at the end to see how I did
Ok, I got the Pacific one wrong. I was thinking about San Diego, but decided not to since I think they would wanna put more in the Pacific Northwest and there’s not too much competition in other or sports. That’s my main reasoning for Victoria and Portland, also both have a history with pro hockey. Plus also Utah is kinda an untapped market. First I wanna say I meant Saskatoon, which I thought because of the failed Blues relocation. Houston was a pretty obvious one tbh. Kansas City got me because of their previous franchise, the Scouts. Milwaukee/Green Bay was just because I thought Wisconsin needed a team, and AHL helps with that. Atlanta was kinda obvious. Even though there have been two failed teams, people still love the Thrashers and especially those jerseys. They would fly off the shelves and would also help with another southern team in the Metro joining the Hurricanes and the moved Predators. Hamilton was dark horse. Multiple attempts at getting a new team. Also, formerly had the Hamilton Tigers early on in the NHL. Quebec City was an obvious choice. Was really surprised he went with Hamilton over Hartford and San Diego over somewhere like Portland and Victoria.
I would also like to state that if the 8 teams introduced 4 have had an NHL team before, 2 currently have AHL teams, 1 had a WHA and then AHL team, and the other was close to getting an NHL team.
Milwaukee Ospreys? Where the fuck did you pull that name from? They'll never get an NHL team, but if they did, keeping the Admirals name would fit well with the fringe hockey fans in Milwaukee. They would just need to come up with better uniforms than they have currently.
All the cities that have lost teams should have the right to expansion before other cities before any other city that previously had a team. Cities like Oakland, Quebec, Hartford etc.
No Fullstop. No more expansion. 32 is already too many teams and we can’t keep adding games to an already congested season. And Arizona definitely needs to be relocated and I would argue Florida.
Arizona, maybe, but definitely not Florida. I definitely see your point, and I think 32 is a good number of teams, but it seems as if the NHL is still eager to expand.
1. San Diego is a relocation site for the Ducks if they can’t get a new arena in the next ten years. 2. Saskatoon is far too small and it’s A LOT EASIER to sell 9 football home games at CFL prices than 41 NHL prices home arena dates. 3. Attendance wasn’t the Thrashers problem. They got evicted and didn’t have an arena. 4. The FirstOntario Centre, formerly Copps Coliseum doesn’t have the revenue generating features needed for a long term arena and a Hamilton team cannibalizes Buffalo. 5. Quebec City has no corporate base.
I like Milwaukee but for a team I would have to go for Madison The UW Madison has a strong ice hockey program with 12 titles across both genders, the Kohl Center has a capacity of 15,359 for hockey, and they can always stay there until a new stadium is built, sort of like the coyotes Madison is one of only 2 major cities in Wisconsin and they don’t have a professional sports team, and they have had teams in other hockey leagues They aren’t quite as close to Chicago as Milwaukee is but they are still only about a 2 and a half hour drive, they are considered one of the best areas to live in, and their metro population is growing by a lot, being at 910,246 in the 2020 census, a 10 percent increase, while Milwaukee’s population has been growing very little for a long time This is why I think Madison should have an NHL team over Milwaukee
As a Wisconsinite I can tell you that hockey is very popular in Wisconsin. A lot of people here grew up playing hockey on local frozen lakes and ponds. The University of Wisconsin (okay, Madison is 80 miles away from Milwaukee) has always had a strong hockey program for both men and women. Local native Mark Johnson from the Miracle on Ice 1980 Olympic champions team still coaches the women's hockey team, which has won six NCAA championships since they first started in 1999, and Wisconsin is the only school to have had both their men's and women's hockey teams win the Frozen Four in the same year. The Wisconsin Men's Hockey team has also won six NCAA championships. Frankly, it's criminal that Wisconsin hasn't had an NHL team yet, given the devotion of its fans.
Being from Cleveland, I'd like an NHL team back here. Cleveland leads the AHL in attendance every year, has a strong youth hockey structure, and I feel the Blue Jackets should have been in Cleveland originally rather than in Columbus. The only team that ever failed here was the old NHL Barons which was due to very lackluster marketing and a team struggling as a retread that needed to be moved with no identity and at an arena 20 miles from Cleveland. At 73 years old have been thru the Barons, Crusaders, Barons, Lumberjacks, Monsters. Hockey lives in Cleveland.
This is mine, I did it similar to your format and tried my best to keep the divisions similar to what they are now, and didn’t relocate any teams. *PACIFIC DIVISION* Portland Seattle Arizona Vancouver Edmonton Calgary Los Angeles Las Vegas Anaheim San Jose *CENTRAL DIVISION* Kansas City Salt Lake City Houston Milwaukee Austin Minnesota St Louis Dallas Colorado Winnipeg *ATLANTIC DIVISION* Quebec City Hartford Chicago Detroit Montreal Toronto Boston Ottawa Florida Tampa Bay *METROPOLITAN DIVISION* Philadelphia Pittsburgh Washington Carolina Nashville Columbus New York NYI New Jersey Buffalo The new teams I added were: Portland, Salt Lake City, Kansas City, Austin, Houston, Milwaukee, Quebec City Hartford.
Very good suggestions! Although in your divisions I would personally swap Chicago and Buffalo, although I can see why you chose to put them in those divisions. The only thing I really disagree with you on is giving Hartford a team since that city is struggling economically and the state of Connecticut has a shrinking population.
@@CharlieND Yeah I disagree, I think Chicago fits better for a reunion with Detroit, and it recreates old rivalries with more of their fellow original 6 teams. As for Hartford, I know it’s smaller, but they’re so iconic that you can’t ignore them, I know non NHL fans who know the Whalers. They could be like the Green Bay Packers in the fact that their a small market team but their just so iconic that they hold their own weight and are a special attraction. I know you had more Canadian teams in your list, and I thought of that too, Sask was my other consideration behind Hartford, but the problem is that its too small, way too isolated, and so damn cold in the winter making travel and desireability difficult. And the most important thing is the Canadian dollar difference which NHL clearly doesn’t want to deal with, I think a team in Hartford would make more than a team in Saskatoon. That’s just what I think though.
I would choose Cleveland over Hamilton. The city is within a 2 hour or less drive to Columbus, Pittsburgh and Detroit and five hours of Chicago. Perfect for building rivalries
I think the NHL might expend to 36 teams at the most . You can add Portland. Kansas city. Quebec city and Hamilton. Houston might get the Coyotes by moving from Phoenix. So as well Quebec city might get The Senators from Ottawa. Senators having issues with attendance for Years due the arena far from Ottawa. The want a new Arena close to Ottawa.
I know I’m in the minority here but for the Atlantic division I feel like Jacksonville should get a team even though they have an ECHL team, their the biggest city in the US in terms of land mass and only have one sports team which I feel like they could have a bit of a rivalry to either the lightning or maybe Atlanta if they get a team
I think you should have added the current 32 teams with dots showing their location, along with those 8 extra teams you’re talking about with their location dots in your map.
Charlie, I agree with you regarding all but one of your prospective cites in the NHL expansion. The St. Louis Blues ought to remain where they currently reside in the "Show Me" state instead to relocating to the desolate village in the Canadian prairie province of Saskatchewan (with a 2017 population of 273,010). That move in 1983 never took place. Instead, invite Birmingham, Alabama, that has a population of 210,928, as of 2020. This would create a natural rivalry with Nashville, Houston, Atlanta, and the two Florida teams...plus the afore referenced St. Louis. Hence, the alignment of the NHL's divisions would be as follows: Atlantic Division: Montreal Canadiens Toronto Maple Leafs Tampa Bay Lightning Miami Panthers Boston Bruins Buffalo Sabres Detroit Red Wings Ottawa Senators Quebec Nordiques+ Hamilton Cougars+ Metropolitan Division: New York Rangers Washington Capitals Carolina Hurricanes Pittsburgh Penguins Columbus Blue Jackets New York Islanders Philadelphia Flyers New Jersey Devils Atlanta Thrashers+ Birmingham Barons+ Central Division: Chicago Black Hawks Minnesota Wild Winnepeg Jets Saint Louis Blues Dallas Stars Arizona Coyotes Nashville Predators Milwaukee Shamrocks+ Houston Apollos+ Kansas City Storm+ Pacific Division: Los Angeles Kings San Jose Sharks Vancouver Canucks Portland Seals Seatle Kraken Anaheim Ducks Edmonton Oilers Calgary Flames Colorado Avalanche San Diego Golden Gulls+ An unanswered question would then linger: What happened to the Vegas Knights? Might the Vegas Knights been regulated to the ECHL Vegas Wranglers? Sad.
The only real change id make to this is Portland over San Diego. California already has enough teams and rivalries. Portland and Seattle and Vancouver would make for great entertainment. Much like basketball in the 90’s.
Portland doesn't have enough people who want to spend their money on tickets and merchandise. They'd rather spend it on craft beer, weed, penis shaped donuts and left-wing political causes.
@@janellek21 you couldn’t be more wrong. Their whl team and the blazers and the Timbers all do well. But for the sake of your “politics” pop off I guess. Ignorance doesn’t make you right.
Portland is not a good choice. That is one underwhelming metro area. It just looks small, because it is small. You already have MLS and NBA, which I think is fair considering that the population of the region is only around 2.4 million.
As much as I like the idea of Milwaukee having an NHL team I don’t believe it’s feasible. Part of the reason Fiserv was built was to appease the NBA. The league didn’t appreciate the Bucks sharing a stadium with an AHL team, hence why the Ads now play in UW-Milwaukee’s Panther Arena. Fiserv can host hockey, UW-Madison hosts tournaments there around once a year. If Wisconsin ever were to get a team, it might as well be in close proximity to Green Bay. This would satisfy big baby NHL who thinks a Milwaukee expansion would take away from the alleged Blackhawks fan base, which if you ask me is already non existent. I don’t root for a particular team, however my cousins root for Pittsburg and Colorado. The only team in common we root for is the Admirals since we grew up around the metro Milwaukee area. RIP Bradley Center, you deserved so much better.
London, Ontario. The Knights pack the house almost every night and the JLC wouldn’t be the smallest arena in the NHL. We’re also smack dab in between Toronto, Detroit and Buffalo.
I'd always thought that If Portland did get a NHL team, they should bring back the Portland Buckaroos from the old WHL. And if the games go to Overtime, Homer Simpson appears on the jumbotron yelling "WOO-HOO! FREE HOCKEY!"
If a 40 team NHL is possible it will have to come long after Gary Bettman has vacated his position as commissioner. I very much like your idea here. It will be interesting to see how the league will go in future expansion. I’m in Calgary and we came close to losing our Flames in 2000 to Portland Oregon.
Here is what I would do: Atlanta gets an expansion team (Call them the Thrashers) Houston gets an expansion team (Call them the Aeros) Salt Lake City gets an expansion team New Jersey moves to Hartford. Anaheim moves to San Diego. Florida moves to Quebec. Divisions: Southeast: Atlanta, Carolina, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Washington Northeast: Montreal, Quebec, Ottawa, Boston, Hartford Metropolitan: New York Rangers, New York Islanders, Philadelphia, Buffalo, Toronto Midwest: Pittsburgh, Detroit, Chicago, Minnesota, Columbus Heartland: St. Louis, Winnipeg, Colorado, Dallas, Houston Southwest: Phoenix, Las Vegas, San Diego, Los Angeles, Salt Lake City Northwest: Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, San Jose
The thing with almost all of these kind of videos is that they're focused on the true hockey fans and their passion. NHL and it's owners don't care about the fans, what they care about is revenue. And while filling an arena with fans each game is great and all, it still doesn't automatically mean high revenue. Big sponsors and wealthy people ready to spend it on a more luxurious experience is what brings in the big bucks. Yes Arizona Coyotes failed and people will put a lot of the blame on attendance numbers. But that wasn't the real reason. Bettman & Co fought hard to keep the Coyotes despite the obviously flawed ownership/arena situation in Arizona. Why? Because of the potentially big market. You think they would've give a damn about a small market Canadian team even if attendance was still good but other factors might've started relocation rumors? Seriously. This is the exact reason why Saskatoon will never get an NHL team. Regardless of how many potential fans you could ever find in the area.
Why would anyone not have Atlanta in the league? Atlanta has had the highest MLS attendance for six years running, by far. It isn't even close. Atlanta had the fourth highest MLB attendance in 2022. The Falcons are in the top half of NFL attendance. The Hawks are near the middle of the pack in NBA attendance. Thus, where is this irrationality of Atlanta coming from? Atlanta lost its teams having to do with certain circumstances that COULD HAVE HAPPENED ANYWHERE. It is not a reflection of the city. The Flames left because owner Tom Cousins was a real estate developer and during the Jimmy Carter administration, interest rates were increased dramatically. This increase in interest rates about tanked his business. To keep it afloat, he sold off his profitable asset, the Flames, TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER, which just so happened to be someone who TOOK THEM TO CALGARY, DESPITE MULTIPLE LOCAL BIDDERS. If he had chosen any other, the Flames would probably still be in Atlanta, and Calgary would have gotten an expansion team later. The Thrashers left do to some unfortunate circumstances. The Thrashers, originally owned by Ted Turner, was acquired by Time Warner in an acquisition of Turner Sports. This included the Atlanta Hawks of the NBA, the rights to Philips Arena, and the NHL's Atlanta Thrashers. Time Warner had the hair brained idea to merge with AOL, having no foresight that dial-up internet wasn't long standing. A few years later, AOL-Time Warner, the company as it was called, started facing financial hardships as the transition away from dial up internet took place. In order to stabilize the company, they sold their sports franchises, the Hawks, and Thrashers, and the rights to Philips Arena AS A PACKAGE DEAL. It is the package deal that was the root of what led to the Thrashers' demise. You see, it allowed a group of investors from various cities who WANTED A BASKETBALL TEAM, named ATLANTA SPIRIT GROUP, LLC, who acquired the Thrashers as a way of also getting the Hawks. Most had no interest in hockey, and most wanted to sell the Thrashers right after acquisition. There was a lone investor who did want the Thrashers, and in order to prevent the sale, he took the other investors to court. They lost a tremendous amount of money in LITIGATION COSTS, while simultaneously used most of their revenue to acquire Hawks players for exorbitant salaries, namely Joe Johnson. This left little for the Thrashers and is responsible for their continued dismal performance on the ice, having only one playoff year in which they were swept. Litigation costs forced the Thrashers to sell off most of their good players, and shortly after, the court ruled that Atlanta Spirit Group, LLC, could sell the Thrashers. Atlanta Spirit Group sabotaged any potential buyers keeping the Thrashers in Atlanta. For one, they would not allow any new owner to receive any revenue from concessions or parking, as since Atlanta Spirit Group would still own Philips Arena (THE RESULT OF THE PACKAGE DEAL), Atlanta Spirit Group would get that revenue, not the new Thrashers owners. Secondly, it has been stated multiple times that Atlanta Spirit Group was looking to get the relocation fee from the NHL. They also apparently did not want to have to compete with the Thrashers for fans, and wanted to have Atlanta all to themselves in winter sports with the Hawks. Atlanta Spirit Group also wanted a fee from any potential buyers to USE THEIR ARENA. The loss of revenue coupled with fees to Atlanta Spirit, as well as Atlanta Spirit not taking considerably any strong contenders for sale to keep the team in Atlanta, resulted in people unwilling to take a risk, since this setup would have bankrupted any city's sports franchise. The league was also not flexible in 2011. They would not allow the Thrashers to play at the Gwinnett Arena, an arena that holds about 9,000 fans. Years later, they went off this and now are allowing the Coyotes to play in an arena of about 4,000-5,000 fans. The recession was in full swing during the Thrashers' departure, so this didn't exactly help things either. All this said, it is easy to see that Atlanta's movements had nothing to do with attendance, and all with ownership. Atlanta never was last in attendance, and outsold the Bruins, Blackhawks, and Penguins some years. Atlanta is also a huge city that makes some of these other cities that people list as possible expansion sites look like little cities. Atlanta has the third largest urbanized, built-up area in the USA, and fourth largest in the world. Kansas City? Really? They have less than one third the population of metropolitan Atlanta, and it will become even less than that as Atlanta has robust growth, while Kansas City is kind of stagnant. Atlanta metro has about 6.2 million, while Kansas City has just over 2 million. Lastly, Atlanta and Kansas City both play in the ECHL, and Atlanta's attendance is FAR LARGER. Atlanta's attendance is about sixty percent greater than Kansas City's in 2023. Plus, Atlanta's arena is situated in the far northeast corner of the metro, not downtown, and is difficult for two thirds of the metro area population to even get there, given the distance and traffic. By contrast, while Kansas City does not play in a downtown arena, the suburb they play in is far closer to downtown and is far more accessible to most of the metropolitan area population.
@@CharlieND Thanks. Here is the last home game. There is a lot of fan support here, even if it is ECHL and the arena is 25 miles or so from downtown in the northeast part of the metropolitan area. ua-cam.com/video/tY2s8_sklLA/v-deo.html
To Charlie ND. Here Are the Canadian Cities I Will Agree With You on. 1st of All Hamilton then Saskatoon Regina Prince Albert Moose Haw And Swift Current. We Have The Winnipeg Jets Then Bring in Brandon By Bringing Back The Wheat Kings Who Had An NHL Team in 1933 as Did Hamilton. Do Bring Back Hamilton for Sure And Then go to BC And Bring in Victoria Kamloops Kelowna Prince George And Prince Rupert. Then Put Teams in Lethbridge Medicine Hat And Red Deer. Then Back to Manitoba And Do Bring Back Brandon And Then Churchill Then Flin Flon And Steinbach. . I Agree With San Diego Because We Do Need More West Coast Blood. Then Move on to Nova Scotia And Have Teams in Halifax Sydney Lunenburg And Bridgewater. Newfoundland Used To Have The AHL St Johns Maple Leafs Torontos Former Farm Affiliate. Toronto Have Now Got The AHL Affiliate Toronto Marlies But It Would be Redundant To Have The NHL Being Stuck With Having 2 NHL Teams And So Unfortunately The Marlies Would Suffer. If The AHL.The Moose Could Re-Locate Back to St Johns When They Were Known As the St Johns Ice Caps. I Do Very Much Disagree With Your Analysis About Houston. We Did Once Have The Kansas City Scouts Who Entered Into The NHL In The 1974-75 Expansion Draft And It Totally Fell Apart.Did You Also Forget The Washington Capitals Entered the NHL In 1974-75 Season With Kansas City. Remember When The Colorado Rockies Were in The NHL.? They Are Now the New Jersey Devils. Remember Hartford Whalers Whom Are Now The Caroline Hurricane. ? Now Look At The Arizona Coyotes Moving to Salt Lake City. Mormon Country. I Do Strongly Agree to Bring Back Portland Oregon. But The Only Other Based NHL Teams in The American Cities Are Philadelphia Pittsburgh Boston Colorado And Detroit. Send Buffalo Packing Maybe The Would Like To Move To Hamilton. The NY Islanders Moved From Uniondale Long Island to Brooklyn The Rest of All The Other American Based NHL Teams Can Move Nortrh of the Border And Make It Alot More NHL With More Canadian Cities In The NHL Circle. Get Rid of Columbus. Vegas Is A Very Good American Based City Center Because of the Golden Knights And Is Perfect for The West Coast. Study This List of Cities And Canadian Cities At That And See What You Think of That Line Up of Teams Would Look Like in a 40 Team NHL Format. David Glavin Burnaby BC
I laughed when you said times have changed after saying weak Canadian dollar. The Canadian currency is as weak today as it was in the 90s, they did gotten strong throughout 2000s and 2010s, but the pandemic created a set back for them.
Context is important. Keep in mind, at the time I made this, the gap between the two was narrowing. But, unfortunately, the gap has widened again in the (almost) three years since I've made this.
Halifax should be on the list in my opinion. Privateers sounds like a good name to me. Definitely agree on Saskatoon and Quebec City. I think Houston is actually the most probable being that the league is devoted to expanding it's U.S. markets. I could see Quebec getting a relocation. Arizona seems most likely but maybe even Columbus if they don't find some real success. I'd prefer to see Arizona relocate over Columbus. Love the cannon jersey, looks like Arsenal Football Club.
Not trying to hate on your list (which is a good one ) but The leaf’s and the sabers have a big contract to prevent a nhl team being put between the city’s the reason is that the leafs and sabers have taken over the tv market around the 2 city’s so if the Hamilton team wants their game to be on tv then they have to find a channel that will be up to broadcast the games
With a 40 team NHL, you'll have to either expand the regular season to 106 or more games to accommodate interconference play, or ban interconference play and have 85 regular season games where you play division rivals 5 times a season and interdivision rivals 4 times a year. Either way, the scheduling would be a nightmare.
There would probably be something like playing one game against teams in one division from the other conference each season (10 games), 3 games each against teams in the other division in your conference (30 games), then 4 games against your division mates (36 games). The NHL would likely want an extra round to the playoffs with something like the NBA's play-in tournament to get the playoff field down to 8 teams in each conference (or even 4 teams in each division). Or perhaps even something like 6 teams in each division playing a triple round-robin, with the team having the best record after 15 games advancing to the conference finals. You only make the playoffs at most one game longer for a team that goes all the way (29 games maximum vs. 28 games now), and 60% of the league would get five guaranteed postseason home dates. The top 2 teams in each division would have 9 or 10 home games, compare to a maximum of 8 home games they would have now during the first two rounds of the playoffs.
I agree with most of them. Houston seems like a great place for a team, and the same with San Diego. Hamilton is a great place as the GTA has so many people. But I don't know about Kansas City, as it is too close to St. Louis, who has almost lost their team multiple times, and fans from KC might be keeping them alive. Same with Milwaukee as its so close to Chicago, I think they are good with just an AHL team. Also, Atlanta seems decent, but I would switch them for a city like Jacksonville, which hasn't had a chance it is more distanced from other centers and its in the middle of Miami, Tampa, Nashville, and Carolina. My big one though is HALIFAX! The east coast of Canada produces so many hockey players and the passion is definitely there. The fanbase is there, and I can definitely see a team being tried there.
Jacksonville has a metro of 1.6 million people. Atlanta has 6.2 million. In no way, shape, or form will they get a team before Atlanta. They also don't have the heavy corporate presence that Atlanta has with Coca-Cola, UPS, Delta Airlines, Georgia Pacific, The Home Depot, Southern Company, Turner Media, etc.
I've gotten a lot of comments saying I should have chosen Hartford over Atlanta. In this video, I go into detail as to why I heavily disagree with that: ua-cam.com/video/gUvJB7F3a-U/v-deo.html
5:06 I found out that Fiserv Forum *is* able to be converted to hockey usage.
Also, some cities I thought about including in this video but didn't are:
San Francisco
Portland
Salt Lake City
Austin
New Orleans
Indianapolis
Baltimore
Halifax
We've got a regular season game scheduled here Minnesota v Chicago coming this fall.
@@blueptconvertible Scum from Chicago and Minnesota infesting my town? I think I'll stay off the streets that night.
Even if the NHL had 40 teams there is still no way Milwaukee would get one.
I would agree with Baltimore for one big reason, I can testify as someone who lives there almost all of Maryland even the parts near dc identify with Baltimore teams like the Os and Ravens. The DC teams are more Virginia's thing. A Baltimore NHL team would definitely have support and automatic rivalries with DC, Pittsburgh, and possibly Philly. Plus Royal Farms arena is a good temporary arena while a permanent NHL spec arena could be built
@@dvferyance Explain Dork.
I would honestly think Portland would be more willing to host an NHL team than San Diego because of the support they have for their WHL team
That may be true, but don't forget that San Diego is also very passionate about their AHL team. I think either city would be a suitable place but I decided to just pick one west coast city.
Portland already has the Moda Center which holds over 19,000 for the NBA Blazers and accommodates 18,000 for hockey. It was built for NHL specifications for any future team. San Diego would have to build a new arena.
@@thesamuraifoodie San Diego already has a hockey arena. The Pechanga Center. I don’t know the minimum capacity that an NHL team has to have, but the Pechanga Arena has around 13,000 which is good enough I think
@@LetsGoPens528 no the arena is too old and small
@@thebiggestmlsfan9019 San Diego has plans to build a state of the art sports arena within the next few years. People love the AHL team here (the Gulls), hockey has been exploding in popularity among the youth here, and there are a lot of Canadian transplants that live in the area. San Diego definitely would get behind an NHL team.
Re: Milwaukee
Not only are the Admirals the 3rd oldest non-NHL pro hockey team in the US. But its hosted the Frozen Four three times and sold out every single game.
Milwaukee should 100% be next team added
In the 80s, the Petits built the Bradley center for hockey--but the Blackhawks petitioned the league and the franchise fee was raised to an absurd amount and they couldn't pay it. Chicago kinda screwed that one. I hope they get a team in the future.
@@joupacabrayeah and people ask why I hate the Blackhawks so much.
@@jacksonfromwisconsin2005 they could have just had an awesome rivalry like the Bears/Packers.
Prediction: the next city to get an NHL team will start with the letter H (so it could be Hamilton, Halifax, Houston, Hartford, etc)
Halifax 😂
Houston Aeros 100%
Hartford Whalers
It won't be hartford
Honolulu Rainbow Skaters
For all the people who believe that Atlanta is a permanent lost cause for the NHL, MLB had failed twice in Washington, DC (the original Washington Senators moved to Minnesota in 1961, and were granted the expansion team intended for Minnesota the same year, but the second incarnation of the Senators moved the DFW metroplex over a decade later), but they got a third shot (unfortunately at Montreal's expense), which eventually led to the Nationals' first World Series championship in 2019. A third shot in the NHL for the Peach State is not so far fetched if the right opportunity arises, considering that Atlanta's metro population is over 6 million, and it has several snowbirds.
However, for a third Atlanta NHL team to be successful, they would need, besides owners that care long term, to build a new arena in the affluent northern suburbs (which, like most Braves fans, is where most Atlanta hockey fans reside), roughly the same size as, ironically enough, the Canada Life Centre (home of the Winnipeg Jets, aka the ex-Atlanta Thrashers); ~15,000 should be large enough for a Sun Belt market. State Farm Arena in downtown is out of the question, due to the Hawks' renovation optimizing its seating bowl for basketball. Also, the Hawks are part of the reason why both the Flames and Thrashers failed, especially in the latter case with its bickering ownership group, where practically the only thing they EVER agreed on was selling the Thrashers to True North. Gas South Arena in Gwinnett County, home of the ECHL's Atlanta Gladiators, could serve as a short-term venue, but it's nearing 20 years old, seats 10,000 in its hockey configuration, and I don't believe it's feasible, either financially or architecturally, to literally raise the roof the arena to add an upper deck.
And the Nats owner wants to sell.
Good idea for the arena placement! Maybe somewhere along the Red Line though, near the perimeter. Good access for cars, plus decent access for train-goers from downtown. If a competent ownership group could make that work, they could have regular sell-out crowds.
Return the Flames back to Atlanta and relocate them from Calgary, Alberta in Canada and return them to Atlanta and then Calgary would apply for a NHL expansion franchise team that would be the former WHA team Calgary Cowboys that should waited until the end of the 1978 - 79 WHA season to join the National Hockey League 43 year ago in 1979 instead of the Flames leaving Atlanta in 1980 they would have celebrated their 50th anniversary in the 2021 - 2022 season as the current Atlanta Flames and they would have celebrated their first Stanley Cup Championship in 1989 hanging up their banner at beginning of the 1989 - 90 season in Atlanta, Georgia.
If the Coyotes can play in a 5000-seat college hockey arena, I don't see what's wrong with 10000 seats in a temporary venue.
That’s exactly what they’re doing actually. The next team is going to play in the suburbs in Alpharetta, GA.
Love the 40 team concept. For elevated fan interest consider geographic sub-divisions of 5 teams which springboard into four team sub-playoffs to propel 1 or 2 teams into a playoff scheme that keeps more teams engaged into the playoffs. Being an Atlanta resident I would offer that the reason the Atlanta hockey experiments failed twice is all about location, location, location. With over 6M people, you just need to put your arena in proximity to the population that would support the team on a daily/weekly/yearly basis. Locating them around the new Atlanta battery would be a good start.
They need to put the arena near I-75 and I-285 near Truist Park or in close proximity, or near I-285 at Georgia 400. These are the optimal sites.
My choice for location would be to place an arena around the office park area off New Northside Drive, just north of I-285 close to the River and a few miles from Truist Park. There is plenty of land to build an arena there, as well as restaurants or something similar to the Battery. The other choice would be to build just to the north of Truist Park across from the stadium, but they'd have to buy out the owners of the current buildings in that area. If they were able to do that they could also use the Battery for pre and post Game.
State Farm Arena is another possibility. This is the former home of the Thrashers, and even though it was reconfigured, it would still work for the NHL, just without adequate seating or site lines near one goal end. It could be a temporary home, if need be, until a new arena was built, or it could be the final home, but I think a new arena on the northwest or north side is optimal.
Gas South Arena in Gwinnett, where the Atlanta Gladiators play, could also be a temporary home, but I wouldn't look at anything long term there because it only has around nine thousand seats, and it is so, so, so far for about two-thirds of the metropolitan area population to get to. It explains good attendance on Saturdays and the weekend, but lackluster attendance for 7 pm games on a week night. The traffic makes getting off work at 5, going home, and going through traffic very difficult for anyone other than those who live in the immediate area or Gwinnett, Hall, or Barrow counties.
Quebec City needs a team now
I would like to see some of these teams: Quebec Nordiques, Hartford Whalers, Houston Aeros, California Golden Seals, Milwaukee Admirals, Kansas City Scouts, Cleveland Barons, Hamilton Tigers, Atlanta Thrashers, Saskatoon Blades.
I'm with this guy
Saskatoon's team would be called the Saskatchewan Whitetails.
Not the Miami Screaming Eagles?
Not the Rat Portage (Kenora) Thistles?
Not the Haileybury Comets?
This is a solid list. San Deigo can have rivalries with every Californian team. Saskatoon can become rivals with Winnipeg, Calgary, and Edmonton. Kansas City can become rivals with St Louis. Houston can become rivals with Dallas. Milwaukee can become rivals with Chicago. Atlanta can become rivals with Nashville, Florida, Tampa, and Carolina. Hamilton can be rivals with Buffalo, Ottawa, and Toronto. and Quebec City can become rivals with the Habs.
The rivalries would go up from Buffalo, around Lake Ontario and up the St. Lawrence; Buffalo-Hamilton-Toronto-Ottawa-Quebec-Montreal.
Except Atlanta has had 2 failed franchises
@@friedfreds4230 Please take the time to read this.
Why would you not have Atlanta in the league?
Atlanta has had the highest MLS attendance for six years running, by far. It isn't even close.
Atlanta had the fourth highest MLB attendance in 2022.
The Falcons are in the top half of NFL attendance.
The Hawks are near the middle of the pack in NBA attendance.
Thus, where is this irrationality of Atlanta coming from? Atlanta lost its teams having to do with certain circumstances that COULD HAVE HAPPENED ANYWHERE. It is not a reflection of the city.
The Flames left because owner Tom Cousins was a real estate developer and during the Jimmy Carter administration, interest rates were increased dramatically. This increase in interest rates about tanked his business. To keep it afloat, he sold off his profitable asset, the Flames, TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER, which just so happened to be someone who TOOK THEM TO CALGARY, DESPITE MULTIPLE LOCAL BIDDERS. If he had chosen any other, the Flames would probably still be in Atlanta, and Calgary would have gotten an expansion team later.
The Thrashers left do to some unfortunate circumstances. The Thrashers, originally owned by Ted Turner, was acquired by Time Warner in an acquisition of Turner Sports. This included the Atlanta Hawks of the NBA, the rights to Philips Arena, and the NHL's Atlanta Thrashers.
Time Warner had the hair brained idea to merge with AOL, having no foresight that dial-up internet wasn't long standing. A few years later, AOL-Time Warner, the company as it was called, started facing financial hardships as the transition away from dial up internet took place. In order to stabilize the company, they sold their sports franchises, the Hawks, and Thrashers, and the rights to Philips Arena AS A PACKAGE DEAL. It is the package deal that was the root of what led to the Thrashers' demise. You see, it allowed a group of investors from various cities who WANTED A BASKETBALL TEAM, named ATLANTA SPIRIT GROUP, LLC, who acquired the Thrashers as a way of also getting the Hawks. Most had no interest in hockey, and most wanted to sell the Thrashers right after acquisition. There was a lone investor who did want the Thrashers, and in order to prevent the sale, he took the other investors to court. They lost a tremendous amount of money in LITIGATION COSTS, while simultaneously used most of their revenue to acquire Hawks players for exorbitant salaries, namely Joe Johnson. This left little for the Thrashers and is responsible for their continued dismal performance on the ice, having only one playoff year in which they were swept. Litigation costs forced the Thrashers to sell off most of their good players, and shortly after, the court ruled that Atlanta Spirit Group, LLC, could sell the Thrashers.
Atlanta Spirit Group sabotaged any potential buyers keeping the Thrashers in Atlanta. For one, they would not allow any new owner to receive any revenue from concessions or parking, as since Atlanta Spirit Group would still own Philips Arena (THE RESULT OF THE PACKAGE DEAL), Atlanta Spirit Group would get that revenue, not the new Thrashers owners. Secondly, it has been stated multiple times that Atlanta Spirit Group was looking to get the relocation fee from the NHL. They also apparently did not want to have to compete with the Thrashers for fans, and wanted to have Atlanta all to themselves in winter sports with the Hawks. Atlanta Spirit Group also wanted a fee from any potential buyers to USE THEIR ARENA. The loss of revenue coupled with fees to Atlanta Spirit, as well as Atlanta Spirit not taking considerably any strong contenders for sale to keep the team in Atlanta, resulted in people unwilling to take a risk, since this setup would have bankrupted any city's sports franchise.
The league was also not flexible in 2011. They would not allow the Thrashers to play at the Gwinnett Arena, an arena that holds about 9,000 fans. Years later, they went off this and now are allowing the Coyotes to play in an arena of about 4,000-5,000 fans.
The recession was in full swing during the Thrashers' departure, so this didn't exactly help things either.
All this said, it is easy to see that Atlanta's movements had nothing to do with attendance, and all with ownership. Atlanta never was last in attendance, and outsold the Bruins, Blackhawks, and Penguins some years.
Atlanta is also a huge city that makes some of these other cities that people list as possible expansion sites look like little cities. Atlanta has the third largest urbanized, built-up area in the USA, and fourth largest in the world.
Kansas City? Really? They have less than one third the population of metropolitan Atlanta, and it will become even less than that as Atlanta has robust growth, while Kansas City is kind of stagnant. Atlanta metro has about 6.2 million, while Kansas City has just over 2 million.
Lastly, Atlanta and Kansas City both play in the ECHL, and Atlanta's attendance is FAR LARGER. Atlanta's attendance is about sixty percent greater than Kansas City's in 2023. Plus, Atlanta's arena is situated in the far northeast corner of the metro, not downtown, and is difficult for two thirds of the metro area population to even get there, given the distance and traffic. By contrast, while Kansas City does not play in a downtown arena, the suburb they play in is far closer to downtown and is far more accessible to most of the metropolitan area population.
There is more to rivalry than proximity. Atlanta, San Diego, KC have all had teams, and blew it.
Most of these are extremely unlikely but KC, Houston and Quebec are the most likely. As a former Thrashers' fan, I think Atlanta would work but they'll need much better ownership than the Thrashers had. I hope the NHL is better at vetting potential owners than they were 20 years ago.
And by the way, no it's not easier to sell out a hockey arena than a football stadium. Football stadiums have games about twice a month and almost always on weekends when most people are free. Hockey arenas have games about twice a week, half (or more) of which are during the week when most people are busy and the kiddies are in school.
As long as Gary Bettman is in charge, no Canadian city will ever get another NHL team, sadly
It was all on Atlanta Spirit Group, LLC. THEY destroyed the Thrashers.
Most NHL arenas have a capacity at roughly 20k, way less than a football staudium.
And it's worth pointing out that having better ownership than the Thrashers' is an insanely low bar to clear.
@@owenpowell3291 probably yeah. but that's because he's trying to expand southward, among other reasons. this feels like ''bettman hates canadian teams because 1993, stanley cup, blah blah blah.'' even though thats not really the case, the cup thing is again multiple factors coming together. the owners also decide most of the things, Bettman is just the guy who announces it
When I did the exercise (before having seen the video) the only differences were that I had Salt Lake City instead of San Diego, and Hartford instead of Hamilton. However, I did consider Hamilton over Hartford and don't really have a strong preference either way.
another crazy thing about Milwaukee not having a nhl team is that out of all the usa born nhl players Wisconsin is number 7 on that list of the states. and the top 6 already have teams Minnesota, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York, Illinois and California
Milwaukee has a metropolitan area of ONLY around 1.6 million people. That is a small large city. Milwaukee should be satisfied with having MLB and NBA, and even having an NFL team in Green Bay, when there are far more populated southern metropolitan areas that have fewer teams.
Atlanta and Houston should be the next two expansion sites. Keep Milwaukee AHL, move Kansas City, Cincinnati, Orlando, Jacksonville, and Indianapolis from the ECHL to the AHL. Demote some of the tiny AHL cities down to ECHL.
When the Sprint center, Now the T-Mobile center was built in 2009 in Kansas City, One of the big sells was a NHL or NBA team. But i think they would rather have big concerts then having how ever many home games for a sports team. NHL team could work but more people are gonna want NBA here.
While Salt Lake City was announced for the next team, I'll still never give up hope that another Canadian City gets a team. Hamilton is in Dire need of a Hockey team, as the local OHL Hamilton Bulldogs relocated to Brantford. Hamilton could be good, but picking a name could be hard. I'd stay "Hamilton Steelmen" could be interesting, as it references the long history of Hamilton's history of steel production. It's called "Steel Town" for a reason.
I think Halifax is also a good idea for a team. If you wanted to find where some of the nicest Canadians are in our country, I'd point you towards Nova Scotia. Halifax could be a HUGE Market for Hockey, and could help breathe life into the popular Commercial fishing spot, bringing in an actual sport. For team name, I'd go the "Halifax Tempest". A Mako Shark logo could be good, not to steal off San Jose, but Halifax has also had a history of world famous Shark fishing Derbys for local culture. Treating that local culture with respect could be very cool.
I think the NHL actually will expand to either 36 or 40 teams in the future. They’re already at a disadvantage compared to the other 3 major US sports since there’s only 25 teams in the US right now. I know a lot of people don’t want it to happen, but unlike the other 3 sports, they actually have a very good reason to.
They wont. It makes no sense...
Dilute the talent too far.
@@pkzammy666 World population keeps growing, and so does the amount of people who play hockey. Ratio would be similar to the same. I think next expansion would be appropriate in 10-15 years.
@@pkzammy666 it just gives more people a chance and we can grow the game look at soccer for example there are hella leagues
34 36 or 38 teams would be the best
Putting teams in these areas can make a huge success for the future
A 40 team league split into two leagues. One team from each division gets relagated.
I think if done through the proper channels, Hamilton could work.. I think the biggest reason there was a lot of pushback when Jim Balsillie was trying to get a team to Hamilton was that he wasn't willing to follow the process.. I do see Buffalo getting some compensation should Hamilton get a team, but Toronto area is definitely large enough to support two NHL teams.
Saskatoon is an interesting choice..
I think I'd rather see Hartford over Atlanta, but if they could get an owner/arena that actually cares about the team, it could work.
Biggest Issue is Atlanta is a natural rival to the Florida teams and should be in the same division. So instead of having 4 Division of 10 you have 8 Division of 5.
Pacific -Anaheim, Los Angeles, San Jose, Seattle and San Diego
Southern -Arizon, Houston, Dallas, Colorado and Vegas
Northern -Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon and Winnipeg
Central -Chicago, St.Louis, Kansas City, Milwaukee and Minnesota
Metro -New York R, New York I, New Jersey, Boston and Buffalo
Atlantic -Tampa, Florida, Atlanta, Nashville and Carolina
St.Lawrence -Hamilton, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec
Mid-Atlantic -Detroit, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and Washington
Portland Oregon needs a team in the national hockey League there would be a great rivalry with Vancouver Canucks and the Seattle krakens it would be the Northwest cup it would be interesting to see these teams play each other throughout the season the Portland timbers play the Seattle Sounders and it always is a great rivalry between both of them and even the Vancouver whitecaps and if Seattle SuperSonics ever come back to the NBA Portland has another great rival with that team also
Not krakens; Kraken
I think a team like Saskatoon / Regina. They could play half the home games in each city. The Province I believe would support this kind of team.
No it’s too small
@@thebiggestmlsfan9019 Is it smaller than Winnipeg? Canada is a different market than the US because Canada basically has ONE sport that they love: hockey. They dont care about much else other than hockey. The US has lots of sports of which to draw fan support, so that support can be diluted. Not in Canada!
I can never see Saskatoon (Regina as well) being able to afford an NHL team. First Saskatoon is just 350,000 people and while Regina is 2 hours away it too is very small and even combined add up to just 3/4 of Quebec City. Plus how many fans from Regina will make a 4 hours round trip by car in Canadian winters (maybe 3-5 games a year) but not 41 home games a year. You also need to find a billionaire owner who thinks NHL can be profitable in Saskatoon. Plus Add the $900,000,000 Cdn expansion fee plus the $600,000,000 Cdn cost of building an NHL size arena and 100,000,000 Cdn per year to afford NHL contracts and still stay profitable. Plus NHL would only be getting very few as Saskatchewan is already hockey crazy in already buying more NHL merchandise and NHL TV packages etc.
NHL wants to expand the sport further in the USA as the USA has 9 times the population and not nearly as saturated. NHL only has 25 US cities … NBA has 29, MLB has 29 US cities and NFL 32. Only Quebec City and maybe Toronto 2/Hamilton have a chance.
@@thebiggestmlsfan9019 Great Points. I can see failed WHA cities maybe getting NHL teams. I was thinking perhaps Houston, Indianapolis, Birmingham, Cincinnati, Cleveland, and perhaps even Oakland/S.F. again. Maybe even K.C.
You could get a packed arena every night. It’s Saskatoon, there’s not much else to do. Yes those up front cost are steep but there would be butts in seats every night. Atlanta wouldn’t sell out like they do but the TV audience would be lower
To those of you who dismiss Atlanta, read my other comments. It is ridiculous for anyone to dismiss Atlanta, and if you want to be a clown who thinks that NHL in Atlanta won't work, well, that's on you.
Anyhow, I'm going to post attendances by league and provide you a video of attendance.
MLS average attendance 2022.
Atlanta: 47,116
Charlotte: 35,260
Seattle: 33,607
Nashville: 27,554
Toronto: 25,423
Portland: 23,841
Los Angeles Galaxy: 22,841
Cincinnati: 22,487
Los Angeles FC: 22,090
Austin: 20,738
Salt Lake City: 20,470
Boston: 20,319
Minneapolis-St. Paul: 19,555
Columbus: 19,237
Kansas City: 18,365
Philadelphia: 18,126
Orlando: 17,261
New York FC: 17,180
New York Red Bulls: 17,002
Dallas: 16,479
Houston: 16,426
Vancouver: 16,399
Washington DC: 16,256
Montreal: 15,905
Chicago: 15,848
San Jose: 15,260
Colorado: 14,473
Miami: 12,637
LOOK AT THAT, ATLANTA NUMBER ONE, BY FAR: Check out this link at the 2 minute mark of our fan support. ua-cam.com/video/JA--rZMb2yI/v-deo.html
Next, let's look at the MLB season average attendance for 2022:
Los Angeles Dodgers: 47,671
St. Louis: 40,994
New York Yankees: 40,207
Atlanta: 38,641
San Diego: 36,931
New York Mets: 33,308
Houston: 33,197
Toronto: 32,763
Colorado: 32,467
Boston: 32,408
Chicago Cubs: 32,305
San Francisco: 30,650
Los Angeles Angels: 30,339
Milwaukee: 30,155
Seattle: 28,590
Philadelphia: 28,459
Washington DC: 25,017
Texas (Dallas-Fort Worth) 24,831
Chicago White Sox: 24,704
Minnesota: 22,514
Arizona (Phoenix) : 19,817
Detroit: 19,634
Baltimore: 17,543
Cincinnati: 17,447
Cleveland: 17,050
Kansas City: 15,974
Pittsburgh: 15,524
Tampa Bay(Tampa-St. Petersburg): 13,927
Miami: 11,203
Oakland: 9,973
Would you look at that, again. Atlanta is 4th out of 30 teams in attendance. Check out Dansby's homerun, the large crowd, and the roar of the crowd at ua-cam.com/video/eE7k3Tb0NM8/v-deo.html at the 8 : 22 mark.
Now consider the latest home game as of February 8, 2023 for the Atlanta Gladiators, our ECHL team that has been in the league for 20 years and played here during most of the Atlanta Thrashers days. Great crowd, good atmosphere. ua-cam.com/video/tY2s8_sklLA/v-deo.html
Let's look at when the Thrashers were here. Here is a game from the 2007 playoff game at Philips Arena against the New York Rangers, our lone playoff series. Check out the atmosphere and the packed house. ua-cam.com/video/4W0WtsMoRns/v-deo.html
Next, let's take a look at just how large the Atlanta developed/built-up urbanized area is compared to other cities urbanized area (city and suburbs): www.demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf
New York: 4,669 square miles
Boston-Providence: 3,663 square miles
Atlanta: 2,857 square miles
Chicago: 2,705 square miles
Los Angeles: 2,452 square miles
Washington DC-Baltimore: 2,124 square miles
Philadelphia: 2,096 square miles
Dallas-Fort Worth: 2,038 square miles
Houston: 1,904 square miles
Detroit: 1,648 square miles
Cleveland-Akron-Canton: 1,379 square miles
Miami: 1,279 square miles
Seattle-Tacoma: 1,260 square miles
Phoenix: 1,250 square miles
Charlotte: 1,156 square miles
Minneapolis-St. Paul: 1,111 square miles
San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose: 1,109 square miles
Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater: 1,004 square miles
St. Louis: 990 square miles
Pittsburgh: 922 square miles
Orlando: 832 square miles
Cincinnati: 797 square miles
San Diego: 740 square miles
Kansas City: 728 square miles
Indianapolis: 718 square miles
Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill: 706 square miles
Denver: 681 square miles
Salt Lake City-Ogden-Provi: 665 square miles
Jacksonville: 608 square miles
San Antonio: 601 square miles
Nashville: 579 square miles
Milwaukee: 565 square miles
Portland: 538 square miles
Birmingham: 530 square miles
Virginia Beach-Norfolk: 529 square miles
Austin: 528 square miles
Hartford: 525 square miles
Columbus: 518 square miles
Memphis: 501 square miles
Richmond: 501 square miles
Louisville: 489 square miles
Sacramento: 476 square miles
Knoxville: 438 square miles
Oklahoma City: 418 square miles
Las Vegas: 417 square miles
Buffalo: 380 square miles
Don't be ignorant on this, people. It makes you look like uneducated clowns.
I'm not fully sold on Atlanta, after they already lost two NHL teams. With the currency exchange rate putting Canadian teams at a disadvantage, Atlanta is the only US city to lose a hockey team to Canada in the modern era, and they did it twice!
But otherwise I like your list. I would really have been upset if you didn't include Houston. The prospect of an archrivalry with Dallas is intriguing, but you missed the point that Houston already has a rich hockey history from the WHA days. Even literally Mr. Hockey himself once played for Houston, and won at least one championship there.
Atlanta has more white people, hockey's primary demographic (don't kid yourself, well over 95 percent of fans are white, even in very diverse metropolitan areas), than any other metropolitan area without an NHL team.
Atlanta has about 300,000 more whites than Houston metropolitan area, and around one to two million more whites than any of the rest, including San Diego, Portland, and Kansas City.
Atlanta IS the logical first choice, especially considering it's size, it's success with it's other franchises in attendance, and the unfortunate realities of why both the Flames and Thrashers left, having nothing to do with any lack of fan support.
Atlanta deserves a team - thanks for pointing out that bad management and ownership were the main problems with their past teams.
I live in Atlanta and I would not give Atlanta another team. There simply isn't the interest. Oh, all the tickets will sell, just like the Thrashers' tickets sold - to corporations that rarely used them. I saw this again and again with the Thrashers. My firm had season tickets, to entertain clients. Most of the time an email went out at lunchtime of a gameday asking if anyone wanted the tickets. You'd take them and show up to a sold-out area that was never more than half-full.
Stop trying to make NHL hockey in Atlanta happen. It's not going to happen. Atlanta has a big population...of people who don't give a shit about hockey. They just don't, and they never will ever.
Give a team to Hartford or someone who wants it.
Quit smoking the dope KLo. Atlanta is not worthy of any NHL team.
"Put a good product on the ice and fans will come out in droves"
Disproven by the late 90s- Early 2000s Atlanta Braves
@@cisium1184 You don't know what you're talking about.
Attendance had nothing to do with it. I don't know what games you attended, but I attended quite a number of Thrashers games, and the only one that had not very many fans was two months before the team left the city when it was speculated already that they were going to try to get rid of the team. Most of the games I attended were well over 80 percent capacity, some sellouts, and one I could only get a "standing" ticket.
The Flames also had mid range attendance.
1972-1973: (16 teams) 11th in attendance ahead of NY Islanders, Pittsburgh Penguins, Los Angeles Kings, Chicago Blackhawks, and California Golden Seals
1973-1974: (16 teams) 10th in attendance ahead of Chicago Blackhawks, Pittsburgh Penguins, Los Angeles Kings, New York Islanders, Detroit Red Wings, and California Golden Seals
1974-1975: (18 teams) 11th in attendance ahead of Chicago Blackhawks, Washington Capitals, Pittsburgh Penguins, California Golden Seals, Kansas City Scouts, Los Angeles Kings, and Detroit Red Wings
1975-1976: (18 teams) 11th in attendance ahead of Chicago Blackhawks, Detroit Red Wings, California Seals, Kansas City Scouts, Minnesota North Stars, Washington Capitals, and Pittsburgh Penguins
1976-1977: (18 teams) 10th in attendance ahead of Chicago Blackhawks, Pittsburgh Penguins, Washington Capitals, Boston Bruins, Cleveland Barons, Colorado Rockies, Minnesota North Stars, and Detroit Red Wings
1977-1978: (18 teams) 15th in attendance ahead of Cleveland Barons, Minnesota North Stars, and Colorado Rockies, as well as within a few hundred of Pittsburgh Penguins, St. Louis Blues, Chicago Blackhawks, and Washington Capitals
1978-1979: (17 teams) 10th in attendance ahead of St. Louis Blues, Pittsburgh Penguins, Minnesota North Stars, Chicago Blackhawks, Colorado Rockies, Los Angeles Kings, and Washington Capitals
1979-1980: (21 teams) 19th in attendance ahead of Colorado Rockies and Hartford Whalers.
The last year was really their only subpar year, and that was likely because there was news of the team leaving the city as a result of other buyers from elsewhere looking to buy the team due to Tom Cousin's financial hardships brought on by interest rates and the recession.
This was excellent considering the size of the Atlanta area in the 70s. In 1970, two years before Atlanta entered the league, the metropolitan area population was only 1.7 million people or so. In 1980 when they left, the area only had around 2.2 million people. This is FOUR MILLION LESS than it currently has.
The Thrashers outsold the the Chicago Blackhawks, Pittsburgh Penguins, Boston Bruins, New York Islanders, New Jersey Devils, St. Louis Blues, Nashville Predators, Carolina Hurricanes, Tampa Bay Lightning, Florida Panthers, Washington Capitals, etc. at various seasons, and regularly outsold the New York Islanders and Arizona Coyotes. The Thrashers were NEVER LAST in attendance
And regarding what I have posted, it cannot be refuted. These are the facts. I have shown attendance figures for MLS, MLB, and the NHL when Atlanta was in the league. I have posted demographic data that supports Atlanta being the largest area with the most white people, the NHL's key demographic, without an NHL team. I have posted data on the size of the metro Atlanta area compared to other cities, and it isn't close. I have given the reason for BOTH the Flames and Thrashers departures and have been objective about what happened.
Atlanta IS the logical choice to re-enter the league first, and putting these small cities ahead of Atlanta is just ridiculous. You ought to know that.
If Dallas has a NHL team, the why not Houston. After all they were quite successful for a while as the Aeros in the WHA.
Alberta raivery would be really exciting, I think NHL should should look around Canada because you can end up with interesting raiveries and makes the the league way more interesting and it also attracts more fans to the games and more people watching, it would look on the NHL because more people will be buying tickets
Wisconsin is a big hockey state. The Badgers are perennial national championship contenders. Milwaukee doesn't have a team largely because it was in decline during the NHL's first big expansion, and was perceived as a dying city. It has started growing again, but not as much as a lot of other cities.
Milwaukee was awarded the NHL franchise that eventually became the Ottawa Senators. The group was led by former Blackhawks radio play by play announcer Lloyd Pettit. He and his wife Jane built the Bradley Center specifically for hockey and it was thought they were a lock to get a franchise. When Pettit was awarded the franchise and told that the expansion fee was $50million, despite the owners of the San Jose Sharks getting their team for a mere $35million plus have the roster of the old Northstars prospects/farm teams, Pettit pulled his offer to purchase. The dream of the NHL coming to Milwaukee died at that very moment. The only way Milwaukee gets a team now is if an existing team moves there. That is not likely.
I might be biased but I agree with idea idea of adding a team in Saskatoon. There are just so many hockey fans in Saskatchewan. There would definitely be enough interest for a team.
Complete agreement - other than Milwaukee - I would choose Portland. I'm an Atlantan and a new team would have TONS of support. Both our teams left because the ownership was in financial trouble. An owner with money and a commitment to drafting well and installing good hockey heads would fix that. It's not the lack of fans - they are here. Not just transplants. I would still see Flames pennants in local bars in the 2000s, when the Thrashers were going good. It's also one of the largest TV markets in the country.
Portland Oregon would be a good candidate for a hockey team in the national hockey League rivals with Seattle and Vancouver would be awesome
I agree
I'm from Atlanta and live in Atlanta and love hockey. The big problem was that the stadium was downtown. Most hockey fans are in the suburbs like baseball. The braves recognized this and moved to Marietta and turned from one of the worst attendance teams to a consistent top 2 team in attendance.
Love both your NBA and NHL versions! I'm a hoops guy, not really a hockey guy, but one city that I think should get some NHL consideration is Salt Lake City. Their AHL team Utah Grizzlies and previously Golden Eagles from my understanding were/have been quite popular. The city is nuts for the Jazz and being a winter sports town that's way into skiing, I think the NHL would do quite well there.
Plus, you mentioned how much you like rivalries and proximity. A Salt Lake City based team would form a natural rivalry with the Colorado Avalanche.
Good point. I'd totally be on board with a Salt Lake City team; the Jazz certainly have quite a strong following (I've even met Jazz fans in Toronto) and I definitely think hockey would be a great addition to the city. If the NHL were to relocate a current team I think Salt Lake City would be a great destination.
@@CharlieND Yeah, I think the cities you mentioned all make sense. Just wanted to put a plug in for SLC as well!
@@slamdunk406 no not Saskatoon Hartford is better and Cleveland is a good option
@@thebiggestmlsfan9019 Hartford and Cleveland would make sense as well. Good suggestions!
@@slamdunk406 Yeah also cleveland has the rocket mortgage fieldhouse which holds up to 18,000 fans
this would be so sick tbh. love the way the central division expansion
I agree saskatchewan deserves and ould support a nhl team
Cleveland has some promise; they've ranked in the top 3 in AHL attendance every year since 2013-14. In exchange I'd give SK a minor pro team to start & see where it goes; I wouldn't be surprised if they leapfrogged Hershey in AHL attendance & became a mainstay at the top, but I'd want to see that happen first before giving them a major pro team. FWIW the Saskatoon team's market would probably be almost the entirety of SK, at almost 1.2 million people, which is also the size of Buffalo's metro area (in the US -- but a Hamilton team would probably suck in a lot of Sabres fans from the Niagara/St Catharines ON area anyways).
Pretty much how it is now the NHL will continue to hope that Columbus Blue Jackets will take Cleveland's attention (and to an extent Cincinnati) considering how Cleveland is the stepping grounds to Columbus being their affiliate. I wouldn't be shocked if one day they rename the Blue Jackets to the Ohio Blue Jackets though to bring in all the Cs of Ohio.
The Hartford Whalers should definitely be on that list!
I would like to see San Diego get a NHL team as they have lost the Chargers and years ago the Clippers. As it stands now all they Have is the Padres. Plus it would be great to have another team on the west coast.
No one cares about local sports teams in SD. Better off forming a professional surfing team
@@gx6299 you do NOT know what you are talking about
@@gmellos Bro the capacity of pechanga arena is only 10,00 so san diego is a no
@@thebiggestmlsfan9019 actually it is 13000 for hockey but SD is in the process of trying to redevelop the arena site with a new arena
@@gmellos Yeah but the pechanga center is not nhl ready
I very much enjoyed your video. I agree with all of your selections, however I have a dark horse expansion city candidate I think would do really well that most people dismiss without much thought. I feel Orlando would be a brilliant expansion city for the NHL. Orlando has a large enough population and an NHL ready arena in the Amway center. They have already demonstrated strong support for their ECHL team the Orlando Solar Bears, regularly pulling over 5000 fans per game and placing between 3rd and 7th in the leagues attendance in the past decade. Orlando would also likely have a similar attendance boost as Las Vegas did with its expansion due to being one of the world's biggest cities for tourism thanks to Disney World and the other local theme parks in the area. The only detriment to this proposal is Tampa Bay being only an hour away by car, however due to the greater population of Florida and my above points, I do believe that a third team would still be well supported in the state in the same way that new york/new jersey and california do their three teams. On your list I'd likely bump hamilton or saskatoon from the list to make room (no offence to those cities, I'm Canadian myself, just makes too much sense that they would be first off the list)
I would definitely not be opposed to Orlando. I feel like hockey is really starting to take off in Florida and Orlando would be a great city for a team.
I choose my expansion team in the NHL central....Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Kansas city KS, Cincinnati, Cleveland, green bay or Oklahoma city, Tulsa and Omaha...and 2 more in NHL Atlantic..Columbia SC and Providence or either Atlanta, Birmingham, new Orleans, Orlando, Jacksonville, Baltimore MD,
Roanoke VA
Cincinnati wouldnt get one as columbus is already the team in ohio
How 'bout Hamilton? (Ontario that is)
We've got the fan base
We have an arena
We've got Tim Horton's Field for an outdoor game
There's a possibility for a number of rivalries
Toronto
All of the original six franchises
Halifax is the most slept on city in Canada. Yes it has a smaller population but they are absolutely hockey crazy there. The entire maritimes would support a team. I 100% believe Halifax will one day have a team, and it will thrive
Halifax could be a good spot for a team, but the only reason I didn't mention it is because there are way too many teams in the eastern part of the continent already.
ATLANTA THRASHERS FOREVER!!!! like the city of Atlanta that rose from the ashes, the NHL in Atlanta will rise from the Ashes again!!!! All we need is a decent owner and it will thrive!!!!
Portland and Quebec City would be RAD AF!
40 team MLB w/ 8 5-team divisions. Include Oakland, Montreal, Chicago (if the White Sox move), Nashville, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Portland, Utah, maybe a 3rd NY team.
My version of a 40 team expansion
*ATLANTIC*
Boston
Buffalo
Columbus
Detroit
Hamilton
Hartford
Montreal
Ottawa
Quebec City
Toronto
*METROPOLITAN*
Atlanta
Carolina
Florida
New Jersey
NY Islanders
NY Rangers
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Tampa Bay
Washington
*CENTRAL*
Chicago
Colorado
Dallas
Houston
Kansas City
Milwaukee
Minnesota
Nashville
St. Louis
Winnipeg
*PACIFIC*
Anaheim
Arizona
Calgary
Edmonton
Los Angeles
Salt Lake City
San Jose
Seattle
Vancouver
Vegas
Very good suggestions. I like how you moved Florida and Tampa Bay into the metro. I also think Salt Lake City would be a great place for a team, it's a toss-up between them and Saskatoon for me.
I like it.
You know I already like it ;)
@@thewhale9527 I really would like to see the Whalers in the NHL again!
@@CharlieND Tampa should go in the central
I’m currently at 1:18. You’ve shown the realignment of all existing teams leaving 1 spot in the Pacific and Metro, 2 spots in the Atlantic, and 4 in the Central. I’m giving my beliefs or what cities I’m guessing for each. I’m gonna go over the amount that they have just as a cushion. Gonna put them in order of most likely to least likely
Pacific: Portland, Salt Lake City, Victoria
Metro: Atlanta, Baltimore
Atlantic: Hartford, Quebec City, Hamilton
Central: Houston, Saskatchewan, Kansas City, Green Bay/Milwaukee, Indiana, Oklahoma City
I’ll come back at the end to see how I did
Ok, I got the Pacific one wrong. I was thinking about San Diego, but decided not to since I think they would wanna put more in the Pacific Northwest and there’s not too much competition in other or sports. That’s my main reasoning for Victoria and Portland, also both have a history with pro hockey. Plus also Utah is kinda an untapped market.
First I wanna say I meant Saskatoon, which I thought because of the failed Blues relocation. Houston was a pretty obvious one tbh.
Kansas City got me because of their previous franchise, the Scouts.
Milwaukee/Green Bay was just because I thought Wisconsin needed a team, and AHL helps with that.
Atlanta was kinda obvious. Even though there have been two failed teams, people still love the Thrashers and especially those jerseys. They would fly off the shelves and would also help with another southern team in the Metro joining the Hurricanes and the moved Predators.
Hamilton was dark horse. Multiple attempts at getting a new team. Also, formerly had the Hamilton Tigers early on in the NHL.
Quebec City was an obvious choice.
Was really surprised he went with Hamilton over Hartford and San Diego over somewhere like Portland and Victoria.
I would also like to state that if the 8 teams introduced 4 have had an NHL team before, 2 currently have AHL teams, 1 had a WHA and then AHL team, and the other was close to getting an NHL team.
1) San Diego Condors
2) Utah Jackals
3) Houston Aeros
4) KC Mustangs
5) Milwaukee Ospreys
6) Buffalo to OKC Sabres
7) Indy Arsenal
8) Atlanta Thrashers
9) Quebec Nordiques
-Off subject Minnesota wild to Grizzlies.
Minnesota should keep the logo tho, they have the best one in the league
@@jdkasper7861 I agree.
@Ryan Yeager I don't like it. The Seals are originally in the San Fran Bay area. Anything "Seals" will always be the "California Seals."
@Ryan Yeager LOL.
Milwaukee Ospreys? Where the fuck did you pull that name from? They'll never get an NHL team, but if they did, keeping the Admirals name would fit well with the fringe hockey fans in Milwaukee. They would just need to come up with better uniforms than they have currently.
Milwaukee is a fantastic hockey city, IMO. The Admirals have always been well-supported.
Salt Lake City deserves a hockey team
I would love to see a team in SLC.
All the cities that have lost teams should have the right to expansion before other cities before any other city that previously had a team.
Cities like Oakland, Quebec, Hartford etc.
Hartford should be in the NHL...
Here is my opinion as to what cities should get the next eight NHL teams
Phoenix
Houston
Atlanta
Quebec City
San Diego
Portland
Sacramento
Kansas City
No Fullstop. No more expansion. 32 is already too many teams and we can’t keep adding games to an already congested season. And Arizona definitely needs to be relocated and I would argue Florida.
Arizona, maybe, but definitely not Florida.
I definitely see your point, and I think 32 is a good number of teams, but it seems as if the NHL is still eager to expand.
Midwest and Canada makes the most sense for expansion teams as for the west Portland and Salt Lake City
Before the Original 6, there was the Portland Rosebuds, the 1st American team to be inscribed on Lord Stanley's 🏆 in 1916.
1. San Diego is a relocation site for the Ducks if they can’t get a new arena in the next ten years.
2. Saskatoon is far too small and it’s A LOT EASIER to sell 9 football home games at CFL prices than 41 NHL prices home arena dates.
3. Attendance wasn’t the Thrashers problem. They got evicted and didn’t have an arena.
4. The FirstOntario Centre, formerly Copps Coliseum doesn’t have the revenue generating features needed for a long term arena and a Hamilton team cannibalizes Buffalo.
5. Quebec City has no corporate base.
I like Milwaukee but for a team I would have to go for Madison
The UW Madison has a strong ice hockey program with 12 titles across both genders, the Kohl Center has a capacity of 15,359 for hockey, and they can always stay there until a new stadium is built, sort of like the coyotes
Madison is one of only 2 major cities in Wisconsin and they don’t have a professional sports team, and they have had teams in other hockey leagues
They aren’t quite as close to Chicago as Milwaukee is but they are still only about a 2 and a half hour drive, they are considered one of the best areas to live in, and their metro population is growing by a lot, being at 910,246 in the 2020 census, a 10 percent increase, while Milwaukee’s population has been growing very little for a long time
This is why I think Madison should have an NHL team over Milwaukee
Milwaukee would be cool to see. A possible rival team for the Chicago Blackhawks, Minnesota Wild and St. Louis Blues.
As a Wisconsinite I can tell you that hockey is very popular in Wisconsin. A lot of people here grew up playing hockey on local frozen lakes and ponds. The University of Wisconsin (okay, Madison is 80 miles away from Milwaukee) has always had a strong hockey program for both men and women. Local native Mark Johnson from the Miracle on Ice 1980 Olympic champions team still coaches the women's hockey team, which has won six NCAA championships since they first started in 1999, and Wisconsin is the only school to have had both their men's and women's hockey teams win the Frozen Four in the same year. The Wisconsin Men's Hockey team has also won six NCAA championships. Frankly, it's criminal that Wisconsin hasn't had an NHL team yet, given the devotion of its fans.
Indianapolis would be a great town for hockey. Think of a hockey Black and blue division. Indy Detroit Chicago Milwaukee and St. Louis
This is actually not a bad idea
Being from Cleveland, I'd like an NHL team back here. Cleveland leads the AHL in attendance every year, has a strong youth hockey structure, and I feel the Blue Jackets should have been in Cleveland originally rather than in Columbus. The only team that ever failed here was the old NHL Barons which was due to very lackluster marketing and a team struggling as a retread that needed to be moved with no identity and at an arena 20 miles from Cleveland. At 73 years old have been thru the Barons, Crusaders, Barons, Lumberjacks, Monsters. Hockey lives in Cleveland.
Cleveland needs a team
This is mine, I did it similar to your format and tried my best to keep the divisions similar to what they are now, and didn’t relocate any teams.
*PACIFIC DIVISION*
Portland
Seattle
Arizona
Vancouver
Edmonton
Calgary
Los Angeles
Las Vegas
Anaheim
San Jose
*CENTRAL DIVISION*
Kansas City
Salt Lake City
Houston
Milwaukee
Austin
Minnesota
St Louis
Dallas
Colorado
Winnipeg
*ATLANTIC DIVISION*
Quebec City
Hartford
Chicago
Detroit
Montreal
Toronto
Boston
Ottawa
Florida
Tampa Bay
*METROPOLITAN DIVISION*
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Washington
Carolina
Nashville
Columbus
New York
NYI
New Jersey
Buffalo
The new teams I added were:
Portland, Salt Lake City, Kansas City, Austin, Houston, Milwaukee, Quebec City
Hartford.
Very good suggestions! Although in your divisions I would personally swap Chicago and Buffalo, although I can see why you chose to put them in those divisions.
The only thing I really disagree with you on is giving Hartford a team since that city is struggling economically and the state of Connecticut has a shrinking population.
@@CharlieND Yeah I disagree, I think Chicago fits better for a reunion with Detroit, and it recreates old rivalries with more of their fellow original 6 teams. As for Hartford, I know it’s smaller, but they’re so iconic that you can’t ignore them, I know non NHL fans who know the Whalers. They could be like the Green Bay Packers in the fact that their a small market team but their just so iconic that they hold their own weight and are a special attraction. I know you had more Canadian teams in your list, and I thought of that too, Sask was my other consideration behind Hartford, but the problem is that its too small, way too isolated, and so damn cold in the winter making travel and desireability difficult. And the most important thing is the Canadian dollar difference which NHL clearly doesn’t want to deal with, I think a team in Hartford would make more than a team in Saskatoon. That’s just what I think though.
Where's Atlanta?
One division of 40 teams. Each team plays all other teams twice for a 78-game season. Sixteen teams make the playoffs
I would choose Cleveland over Hamilton. The city is within a 2 hour or less drive to Columbus, Pittsburgh and Detroit and five hours of Chicago. Perfect for building rivalries
I think the NHL might expend to 36 teams at the most . You can add Portland. Kansas city. Quebec city and Hamilton. Houston might get the Coyotes by moving from Phoenix. So as well Quebec city might get The Senators from Ottawa. Senators having issues with attendance for Years due the arena far from Ottawa. The want a new Arena close to Ottawa.
I know I’m in the minority here but for the Atlantic division I feel like Jacksonville should get a team even though they have an ECHL team, their the biggest city in the US in terms of land mass and only have one sports team which I feel like they could have a bit of a rivalry to either the lightning or maybe Atlanta if they get a team
I think you should have added the current 32 teams with dots showing their location, along with those 8 extra teams you’re talking about with their location dots in your map.
Charlie, I agree with you regarding all but one of your prospective cites in the NHL expansion. The St. Louis Blues ought to remain where they currently reside in the "Show Me" state instead to relocating to the desolate village in the Canadian prairie province of Saskatchewan (with a 2017 population of 273,010). That move in 1983 never took place. Instead, invite Birmingham, Alabama, that has a population of 210,928, as of 2020. This would create a natural rivalry with Nashville, Houston, Atlanta, and the two Florida teams...plus the afore referenced St. Louis.
Hence, the alignment of the NHL's divisions would be as follows:
Atlantic Division:
Montreal Canadiens
Toronto Maple Leafs
Tampa Bay Lightning
Miami Panthers
Boston Bruins
Buffalo Sabres
Detroit Red Wings
Ottawa Senators
Quebec Nordiques+
Hamilton Cougars+
Metropolitan Division:
New York Rangers
Washington Capitals
Carolina Hurricanes
Pittsburgh Penguins
Columbus Blue Jackets
New York Islanders
Philadelphia Flyers
New Jersey Devils
Atlanta Thrashers+
Birmingham Barons+
Central Division:
Chicago Black Hawks
Minnesota Wild
Winnepeg Jets
Saint Louis Blues
Dallas Stars
Arizona Coyotes
Nashville Predators
Milwaukee Shamrocks+
Houston Apollos+
Kansas City Storm+
Pacific Division:
Los Angeles Kings
San Jose Sharks
Vancouver Canucks
Portland Seals
Seatle Kraken
Anaheim Ducks
Edmonton Oilers
Calgary Flames
Colorado Avalanche
San Diego Golden Gulls+
An unanswered question would then linger: What happened to the Vegas Knights? Might the Vegas Knights been regulated to the ECHL Vegas Wranglers? Sad.
and Salt Lake City gets the first spot
Good for them. They should be a great spot for a team.
The only real change id make to this is Portland over San Diego. California already has enough teams and rivalries. Portland and Seattle and Vancouver would make for great entertainment. Much like basketball in the 90’s.
Portland doesn't have enough people who want to spend their money on tickets and merchandise. They'd rather spend it on craft beer, weed, penis shaped donuts and left-wing political causes.
@@janellek21 you couldn’t be more wrong. Their whl team and the blazers and the Timbers all do well. But for the sake of your “politics” pop off I guess. Ignorance doesn’t make you right.
Portland is not a good choice. That is one underwhelming metro area. It just looks small, because it is small. You already have MLS and NBA, which I think is fair considering that the population of the region is only around 2.4 million.
Here’s my 40 NHL realignment
-Western conference
Pacific: LA, Anaheim, San Jose, Vegas, Arizona
Northwest: Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, Seattle, Portland
Southwest: Colorado, St.Louis, Dallas, Houston, KC
Mid-West: Chicago, Minnesota, Winnipeg, Milwaukee, Omaha
-Eastern conference
East: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Detroit, Columbus, Cleveland
Northeast: Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Buffalo, Quebec City
Atlantic: NY Rangers, NY Islanders, New Jersey, Boston, Washington
Southeast: Nashville, Carolina, Tampa Bay, Florida, Atlanta
I would swap Buffalo and Boston
@@RandomUA-camchannel6388 You forgot Cincinatti
@@thebiggestmlsfan9019 spell: Cincinnati. Saw the misspell twice already, so know it wasn't a missed spellcheck
Great video! They definitely should go to 36 next and not 33, 34, 35, 36 over time. Maybe in 10 years
As much as I like the idea of Milwaukee having an NHL team I don’t believe it’s feasible. Part of the reason Fiserv was built was to appease the NBA. The league didn’t appreciate the Bucks sharing a stadium with an AHL team, hence why the Ads now play in UW-Milwaukee’s Panther Arena. Fiserv can host hockey, UW-Madison hosts tournaments there around once a year. If Wisconsin ever were to get a team, it might as well be in close proximity to Green Bay. This would satisfy big baby NHL who thinks a Milwaukee expansion would take away from the alleged Blackhawks fan base, which if you ask me is already non existent. I don’t root for a particular team, however my cousins root for Pittsburg and Colorado. The only team in common we root for is the Admirals since we grew up around the metro Milwaukee area. RIP Bradley Center, you deserved so much better.
London, Ontario. The Knights pack the house almost every night and the JLC wouldn’t be the smallest arena in the NHL. We’re also smack dab in between Toronto, Detroit and Buffalo.
I agree with Saskatoon I would also add teams to Hamilton and Quebec as well as for American markets Houston , kansas city
The lack of Hartford upsets me.
Bring back the Whale!
I'd always thought that If Portland did get a NHL team, they should bring back the Portland Buckaroos from the old WHL. And if the games go to Overtime, Homer Simpson appears on the jumbotron yelling "WOO-HOO! FREE HOCKEY!"
How about Pine Needle, VT?
Bring the Thrashers back!!!!!!
If a 40 team NHL is possible it will have to come long after Gary Bettman has vacated his position as commissioner. I very much like your idea here. It will be interesting to see how the league will go in future expansion. I’m in Calgary and we came close to losing our Flames in 2000 to Portland Oregon.
Cleveland and Salt Lake City!
Nope.
Atlanta and Houston.
Here is what I would do:
Atlanta gets an expansion team (Call them the Thrashers)
Houston gets an expansion team (Call them the Aeros)
Salt Lake City gets an expansion team
New Jersey moves to Hartford.
Anaheim moves to San Diego.
Florida moves to Quebec.
Divisions:
Southeast: Atlanta, Carolina, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Washington
Northeast: Montreal, Quebec, Ottawa, Boston, Hartford
Metropolitan: New York Rangers, New York Islanders, Philadelphia, Buffalo, Toronto
Midwest: Pittsburgh, Detroit, Chicago, Minnesota, Columbus
Heartland: St. Louis, Winnipeg, Colorado, Dallas, Houston
Southwest: Phoenix, Las Vegas, San Diego, Los Angeles, Salt Lake City
Northwest: Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, San Jose
Toronto could easily support a second team.
The thing with almost all of these kind of videos is that they're focused on the true hockey fans and their passion.
NHL and it's owners don't care about the fans, what they care about is revenue.
And while filling an arena with fans each game is great and all, it still doesn't automatically mean high revenue.
Big sponsors and wealthy people ready to spend it on a more luxurious experience is what brings in the big bucks.
Yes Arizona Coyotes failed and people will put a lot of the blame on attendance numbers.
But that wasn't the real reason.
Bettman & Co fought hard to keep the Coyotes despite the obviously flawed ownership/arena situation in Arizona.
Why? Because of the potentially big market.
You think they would've give a damn about a small market Canadian team even if attendance was still good but other factors might've started relocation rumors?
Seriously.
This is the exact reason why Saskatoon will never get an NHL team.
Regardless of how many potential fans you could ever find in the area.
Springfield, when the team relocates in a year or two, to Springfield, no need for new sweaters or nickname, plus you get three or four moves.
Why not the Hartford Whalers comeback and slide into the Metropolitan?
Why would anyone not have Atlanta in the league?
Atlanta has had the highest MLS attendance for six years running, by far. It isn't even close.
Atlanta had the fourth highest MLB attendance in 2022.
The Falcons are in the top half of NFL attendance.
The Hawks are near the middle of the pack in NBA attendance.
Thus, where is this irrationality of Atlanta coming from? Atlanta lost its teams having to do with certain circumstances that COULD HAVE HAPPENED ANYWHERE. It is not a reflection of the city.
The Flames left because owner Tom Cousins was a real estate developer and during the Jimmy Carter administration, interest rates were increased dramatically. This increase in interest rates about tanked his business. To keep it afloat, he sold off his profitable asset, the Flames, TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER, which just so happened to be someone who TOOK THEM TO CALGARY, DESPITE MULTIPLE LOCAL BIDDERS. If he had chosen any other, the Flames would probably still be in Atlanta, and Calgary would have gotten an expansion team later.
The Thrashers left do to some unfortunate circumstances. The Thrashers, originally owned by Ted Turner, was acquired by Time Warner in an acquisition of Turner Sports. This included the Atlanta Hawks of the NBA, the rights to Philips Arena, and the NHL's Atlanta Thrashers.
Time Warner had the hair brained idea to merge with AOL, having no foresight that dial-up internet wasn't long standing. A few years later, AOL-Time Warner, the company as it was called, started facing financial hardships as the transition away from dial up internet took place. In order to stabilize the company, they sold their sports franchises, the Hawks, and Thrashers, and the rights to Philips Arena AS A PACKAGE DEAL. It is the package deal that was the root of what led to the Thrashers' demise. You see, it allowed a group of investors from various cities who WANTED A BASKETBALL TEAM, named ATLANTA SPIRIT GROUP, LLC, who acquired the Thrashers as a way of also getting the Hawks. Most had no interest in hockey, and most wanted to sell the Thrashers right after acquisition. There was a lone investor who did want the Thrashers, and in order to prevent the sale, he took the other investors to court. They lost a tremendous amount of money in LITIGATION COSTS, while simultaneously used most of their revenue to acquire Hawks players for exorbitant salaries, namely Joe Johnson. This left little for the Thrashers and is responsible for their continued dismal performance on the ice, having only one playoff year in which they were swept. Litigation costs forced the Thrashers to sell off most of their good players, and shortly after, the court ruled that Atlanta Spirit Group, LLC, could sell the Thrashers.
Atlanta Spirit Group sabotaged any potential buyers keeping the Thrashers in Atlanta. For one, they would not allow any new owner to receive any revenue from concessions or parking, as since Atlanta Spirit Group would still own Philips Arena (THE RESULT OF THE PACKAGE DEAL), Atlanta Spirit Group would get that revenue, not the new Thrashers owners. Secondly, it has been stated multiple times that Atlanta Spirit Group was looking to get the relocation fee from the NHL. They also apparently did not want to have to compete with the Thrashers for fans, and wanted to have Atlanta all to themselves in winter sports with the Hawks. Atlanta Spirit Group also wanted a fee from any potential buyers to USE THEIR ARENA. The loss of revenue coupled with fees to Atlanta Spirit, as well as Atlanta Spirit not taking considerably any strong contenders for sale to keep the team in Atlanta, resulted in people unwilling to take a risk, since this setup would have bankrupted any city's sports franchise.
The league was also not flexible in 2011. They would not allow the Thrashers to play at the Gwinnett Arena, an arena that holds about 9,000 fans. Years later, they went off this and now are allowing the Coyotes to play in an arena of about 4,000-5,000 fans.
The recession was in full swing during the Thrashers' departure, so this didn't exactly help things either.
All this said, it is easy to see that Atlanta's movements had nothing to do with attendance, and all with ownership. Atlanta never was last in attendance, and outsold the Bruins, Blackhawks, and Penguins some years.
Atlanta is also a huge city that makes some of these other cities that people list as possible expansion sites look like little cities. Atlanta has the third largest urbanized, built-up area in the USA, and fourth largest in the world.
Kansas City? Really? They have less than one third the population of metropolitan Atlanta, and it will become even less than that as Atlanta has robust growth, while Kansas City is kind of stagnant. Atlanta metro has about 6.2 million, while Kansas City has just over 2 million.
Lastly, Atlanta and Kansas City both play in the ECHL, and Atlanta's attendance is FAR LARGER. Atlanta's attendance is about sixty percent greater than Kansas City's in 2023. Plus, Atlanta's arena is situated in the far northeast corner of the metro, not downtown, and is difficult for two thirds of the metro area population to even get there, given the distance and traffic. By contrast, while Kansas City does not play in a downtown arena, the suburb they play in is far closer to downtown and is far more accessible to most of the metropolitan area population.
Finally, an intelligent comment about Atlanta under this video. What a breath of fresh air.
@@CharlieND Thanks. Here is the last home game. There is a lot of fan support here, even if it is ECHL and the arena is 25 miles or so from downtown in the northeast part of the metropolitan area.
ua-cam.com/video/tY2s8_sklLA/v-deo.html
Those "in division" Saskatoon to Houston games would be brutal. Even by plane it is 7 hours. If you try to bus it, that is 30 hours on the road.
Whitehorse would also be a great idea.
0:20 Utah say's Hi
😳 You did not just make a list without without Hartford on it.
Cincinnati has been mentioned as one of the NHL expansion teams
Baltimore, Virginia, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Quebec City, Hartford, Halifax, Utah.
Yet, no Atlanta. Makes Sense. right. 🙄
To Charlie ND.
Here Are the Canadian Cities I Will Agree With You on. 1st of All Hamilton then Saskatoon Regina Prince Albert Moose Haw
And Swift Current. We Have The Winnipeg Jets Then Bring in Brandon By Bringing Back The Wheat Kings Who Had An NHL
Team in 1933 as Did Hamilton. Do Bring Back Hamilton for Sure And Then go to BC And Bring in Victoria Kamloops
Kelowna Prince George And Prince Rupert. Then Put Teams in Lethbridge Medicine Hat And Red Deer. Then Back to
Manitoba And Do Bring Back Brandon And Then Churchill Then Flin Flon And Steinbach. . I Agree With San Diego Because
We Do Need More West Coast Blood. Then Move on to Nova Scotia And Have Teams in Halifax Sydney Lunenburg And
Bridgewater. Newfoundland Used To Have The AHL St Johns Maple Leafs Torontos Former Farm Affiliate. Toronto Have
Now Got The AHL Affiliate Toronto Marlies But It Would be Redundant To Have The NHL Being Stuck With Having 2 NHL
Teams And So Unfortunately The Marlies Would Suffer. If The AHL.The Moose Could Re-Locate Back to St Johns
When They Were Known As the St Johns Ice Caps. I Do Very Much Disagree With Your Analysis About Houston.
We Did Once Have The Kansas City Scouts Who Entered Into The NHL In The 1974-75 Expansion Draft And It Totally Fell Apart.Did You Also Forget The Washington Capitals Entered the NHL In 1974-75 Season With Kansas City. Remember When
The Colorado Rockies Were in The NHL.? They Are Now the New Jersey Devils. Remember Hartford Whalers Whom Are Now
The Caroline Hurricane. ? Now Look At The Arizona Coyotes Moving to Salt Lake City. Mormon Country. I Do Strongly Agree to
Bring Back Portland Oregon. But The Only Other Based NHL Teams in The American Cities Are Philadelphia Pittsburgh Boston
Colorado And Detroit. Send Buffalo Packing Maybe The Would Like To Move To Hamilton. The NY Islanders Moved From Uniondale Long Island to Brooklyn The Rest of All The Other American Based NHL Teams Can Move Nortrh of the Border And
Make It Alot More NHL With More Canadian Cities In The NHL Circle. Get Rid of Columbus. Vegas Is A Very Good American
Based City Center Because of the Golden Knights And Is Perfect for The West Coast. Study This List of Cities And Canadian
Cities At That And See What You Think of That Line Up of Teams Would Look Like in a 40 Team NHL Format.
David Glavin Burnaby BC
I laughed when you said times have changed after saying weak Canadian dollar. The Canadian currency is as weak today as it was in the 90s, they did gotten strong throughout 2000s and 2010s, but the pandemic created a set back for them.
Context is important. Keep in mind, at the time I made this, the gap between the two was narrowing. But, unfortunately, the gap has widened again in the (almost) three years since I've made this.
Halifax should be on the list in my opinion. Privateers sounds like a good name to me. Definitely agree on Saskatoon and Quebec City. I think Houston is actually the most probable being that the league is devoted to expanding it's U.S. markets. I could see Quebec getting a relocation. Arizona seems most likely but maybe even Columbus if they don't find some real success. I'd prefer to see Arizona relocate over Columbus. Love the cannon jersey, looks like Arsenal Football Club.
No way Columbus is moving
Halifax explorers
Love it dude, subscribed.
Not trying to hate on your list (which is a good one ) but The leaf’s and the sabers have a big contract to prevent a nhl team being put between the city’s the reason is that the leafs and sabers have taken over the tv market around the 2 city’s so if the Hamilton team wants their game to be on tv then they have to find a channel that will be up to broadcast the games
Yeah I'm aware. Still hopeful Hamilton can get a team.
With a 40 team NHL, you'll have to either expand the regular season to 106 or more games to accommodate interconference play, or ban interconference play and have 85 regular season games where you play division rivals 5 times a season and interdivision rivals 4 times a year. Either way, the scheduling would be a nightmare.
There would probably be something like playing one game against teams in one division from the other conference each season (10 games), 3 games each against teams in the other division in your conference (30 games), then 4 games against your division mates (36 games).
The NHL would likely want an extra round to the playoffs with something like the NBA's play-in tournament to get the playoff field down to 8 teams in each conference (or even 4 teams in each division). Or perhaps even something like 6 teams in each division playing a triple round-robin, with the team having the best record after 15 games advancing to the conference finals. You only make the playoffs at most one game longer for a team that goes all the way (29 games maximum vs. 28 games now), and 60% of the league would get five guaranteed postseason home dates. The top 2 teams in each division would have 9 or 10 home games, compare to a maximum of 8 home games they would have now during the first two rounds of the playoffs.
Hamilton? You'd have to get past the blockade that fans of the Leafs, Sabres and Red Wings would present!
I agree with most of them. Houston seems like a great place for a team, and the same with San Diego. Hamilton is a great place as the GTA has so many people. But I don't know about Kansas City, as it is too close to St. Louis, who has almost lost their team multiple times, and fans from KC might be keeping them alive. Same with Milwaukee as its so close to Chicago, I think they are good with just an AHL team. Also, Atlanta seems decent, but I would switch them for a city like Jacksonville, which hasn't had a chance it is more distanced from other centers and its in the middle of Miami, Tampa, Nashville, and Carolina. My big one though is HALIFAX! The east coast of Canada produces so many hockey players and the passion is definitely there. The fanbase is there, and I can definitely see a team being tried there.
Jacksonville has a metro of 1.6 million people. Atlanta has 6.2 million. In no way, shape, or form will they get a team before Atlanta. They also don't have the heavy corporate presence that Atlanta has with Coca-Cola, UPS, Delta Airlines, Georgia Pacific, The Home Depot, Southern Company, Turner Media, etc.