2:05 The Packers are a 100 year old franchise steeped in history and tradition. I'd bet that most of the fans at Packers games aren't from Green Bay but rather from the rest of Wisconsin or even other surrounding states (I'm from Minnesota, and there are A LOT of Packers fans here), who are able to drive to Green Bay for the game. If the Packers had either never existed or folded early on, Wisconsin would likely have a team in Milwaukee (which used to host a lot of Packers games). Hawaii has a population of 1.3 million scattered across seven main islands and many smaller ones, and is located smack dab in the middle of the Pacific Ocean over 2,000 miles from the American mainland. Not only would it be an incredibly small market, but it'd also be an incredibly isolated market. Once Hawaii gets a replacement for Aloha Stadium they should host the Pro Bowl again, but I don't think a Hawaiian team would work.
Hawaii would work for an NFL team for the same exact reason as Las Vegas works. Tourists are going there and they will buy tickets to games. And people who fly to Hawaii for a vacation will be happy to pay $1000 dollars per ticket for garbage seating. And they'll be just as happy to drop $100,000 per ticket for box suites. Also, league expansion would put NFL games on more television sets. And Hawaii would open up the NFL for advertising revenue to be made around the entire Pacific rim. It would make the NFL shit loads of cash.
Not to mention Green Bay is also an extremely rare case of not having a single owner with a lot of power. The team is owned by hundreds of different people, otherwise the Packers would've moved out of Green Bay decades and decades ago into a bigger market.
One major objection to Honalulu has nothing to do with travel time. The Aloha Bowl is rotting away and has been impossible to properly maintain in the Hawaiian atmosphere.
The NFL in Salt Lake City would do well. Utah has a vibrant football crowd. Both the University of Utah and Brigham Young University regularly fill their stadiums as do the smaller schools. A Utah based team would likely draw fans and support from all over the Great Basin, western Wyoming and eastern Idaho. While the video mentions the population of the Salt Lake metro area, that is only Salt Lake County and southern Davis County. The greater Wasatch Front including Ogden, Provo and Orem sits at 2.66 million so there is a decent potential fan base within a 45 minute drive of an NFL stadium.
to note something. For the logistical stuff, you can argue that Salt lake has in fact had experience where it would come to logistical issue, as they were a host city for the Olympics
The NFL has huge beer & sports betting advertisers, and Utah's one of the strictest states in regards to both drinking & gambling. Sounds like a poor mix.
We had a joke in Texas during the Oiler days: Did you hear the rumor that San Antonio might get an pro football team? Well, it will never happen, because if San Antonio gets one, then Houston will want one too.
@@bcfcmatt lmao yes you do. The jags are inevitably going to relocate. They have more success over there than they do in Jacksonville. They’ve been preparing for it for basically the last 10 years. The results speak for themselves
Bro Texas already has two teams. One really good team and one really bad team. We don’t need another three team state. Instead, the Mid West and really Middle US areas need teams.
This season the NFL is bringing a game in Berlin, Germany. I remember back in the day where preseason games were played in Japan, Ireland, Sweden and Spain. Games in Japan where played at the Tokyo Dome known as the American Bowl during the 80s and 90s
I remember the World League with the likes of the London Monarchs, Rhein Fire, Barcelona Dragons, was there also the Frankfurt Galaxy and Berlin Thunder, and although it folded eventually when setting London mentioned I immediately thought that if you had a team in London and one (or two) in Germany it would mean teams traveling across the Atlantic could have two games before traveling back. I'm not quite sure how it would work as I have my doubts about London from a stadium point of view (not that they don't exist, but that they are regularly used for other things and fitting in 8-9 games wouldn't work), and the same is probably true in Germany (could they get 60,000+ attendances as that's what is probably needed for NFL franchises today, and is there a stadium that could be used). Nice idea though, but I don't really see it happening.
@@MrMarkiemark67 yup my memory was wrong, shoulda Googled it. Now I need to see if they played on the 110 yard field(or who did). My brains gotta be right about that at least lol
Really interesting video. Being a die-hard, life-long CFL fan, I sometimes am concerned about the NFL coming to Toronto. I know all the CFL execs fear that if TO got an NFL team, that would mean the death of the Argos and if there was no CFL team in TO, then the CFL would fold. I'm not totally sure about that, but since TO is such a huge TV market, it seems no one is willing to roll the dice with letting the CFL try and survive without TO. I've enjoyed watching the NFL lately. I used to find it so boring. Run, Run, pass, punt. But thankfully the NFL has taken on more of a wide-open (CFL-like) feel to it. We have to remember that the CFL had the two point convert almost a decade before the NFL adopted it--so a lot of good things have come to the NFL via experimentation in the Crazy Football League. No one can argue with the energy that the NFL produces with their big TV money and bigger than life player talent. I've also noticed that many venues now have as much cheering for the visiting team as the home team. Rivalries are great for that! Many of you are too young to know, but the CFL used to be very big. There were grey Cups in Toronto and Montreal over the years that drew close to 70,000 fans. And in fact in the 1970s and 1980s linemen could make more money in the CFL than in the NFL. However when TV money got big in the US, that's when things changed. The CFL is still a gate-driven league, whereas an NFL team with only 25% of their seats full could still make money because of TV revenue. All this to say, its not that I'd mind an NFL team in Canada, but I'd not like the CFL to die. I'd like to see more talent in the CFL to bring back the joy of the game. Also, I don't think that the NFL is more popular with young people because the game is better, its just that the NFL has most of the money and so they can promote and advertise and appeal to the younger crowd. Hard to do when a league is strapped for cash. Anyways, great video. Keep up the good work!
While I respect how old and storied the CFL is, there's no doubt the league is past its prime. It's a league with a lot of great talent (arguably on-par with the NFL), but I feel like an NFL team could really respark real football passion in Toronto. Although at the end of the day everything I said in this video is purely hypothetical and hopeful. I don't think the CFL is going anywhere for the foreseeable future.
Well they were charging $150 min. Per ticket in TO to see a Bills game yrs ago...that's why it failed imo. If it happened, I'd still be a Bills fan though
Im a high schooler in winnipeg and i think the cfl is actually on the rise here cause young people now know that you can get season tickets for less than $300 and see the bombers win most of their games. I can see how it would be on a decline in Edmonton and the other bad teams, who would want to pay to see their team go 3-14.
@@DanielVeteto-fj4fiIt will take someone to basically get in Jerry Jones face and get it in his thick skull San Antonio would make a ton of sense and make Texas very very strong.
Remember that Honolulu had a team in the WFL in the 70s, and there were logistical problems. The University of Hawaii football team gets to host an extra game to cover their travel costs to the mainland, so any NFL team would always have to host 9 games each season. You would probably have to put two teams from the same market in the same division to even out the schedule. The Canadian government threatened to pass legislation to keep the WFL out of Toronto to protect the CFL. They'd probably do it again if the NFL tries. Another thing to think about is that the NFL would have some competition with college football in some markets, depending on how good the teams are.
College football doesn't necessarily overrule the NFL or vice versa. The Saints and LSU Tigers were both really good in 2019, and there's no split allegiances amongst Louisianians.
You’re absolutely insane to think that Canada would reject an NFL team. Do you know how much revenue that brings to a city? Like you can’t be serious and think they’d reject that.
San Antonio and Austin should team up and share one team. Call them the TEXAS OUTLAWS so no one city gets recognition. Plus build the stadium in the middle like in New Braunfels. While the new stadium is under construction the team can play 4 home games at the Alamodome and 4 in DKR to build the fan base.
Recently Roger Goodell said that Europe has the market for 4 teams, London alone could support 2. If I had to pick 4 Euro teams if there is credence to that comment, I'd have London, 2 German teams and either Amsterdam or Brussels. I think Paris could maybe sneak in based on just size and money but the NFL hasn't really been pushing that one as an option.
In my opinion the biggest challenge of expanding to 36 or 40 teams is to create a new good working schedule formula. I tried it a bit but the results never made me happy about it.
Gotta do some constraint programming. We had to try and make a program that scheduled games for an expanded league under all of the requirements (by weeks, division games, etc..) and it was extremely hard and most couldn’t do it. My professor actually helped write the program that the nfl currently uses
@@symptomofsouls wdym enough QBs? there are plenty of players in colleges, some may not be good but there will always be the best currently skilled players
@@Z64sports wrong. SF has 2, Jimmy G and Purdy. Lance is horrific. And jimmy g will be gone next season. Also there are multiple teams that don't have a starting caliber qb rn
I think a London expansions team should come with another team in Europe, I nominate Munich. We’ve already seen the wild success of the Germany game and apparently the NFL is super popular over there. Plus there’s a huge US military base over there, so it could give the opportunity to give the troops another taste of home while on duty.
I would really like to see NFL teams in Toronto and Mexico City, as well as maybe Vancouver, if not in Europe as well, without relocating teams like the Bills or Cardinals tho. Teams first in Canada and Mexico would just be a lot easier, both logistically and as far as player health and traveling goes. I also think both countries easily have the fanbase to support at least one NFL team
Interesting and well argued video. I live in London and I don't think the NFL should have a franchise here for a few reasons. The logistics would be a huge challenge - realistically a London team would need to be based on the American east cost for away games. Taxation rates here are also much higher than in the US - it would put players off and a UK franchise would be at considerable disadvantage in free agency. Time zones are also an issue - you couldn't have London home games in a prime time slot as they'd be starting around 1am British time. I think London has a pretty good deal with three matches a season or so, and they should keep it that way. There's definitely enough interest to support a franchise but imo it just isn't practical.
The only way I can see them putting franchises in London is if they also expand to 3 more cities around europe, such as in Berlin, Paris, and Amsterdam and put those 4 teams in 1 division. Then, if the games are played on Sunday, they will never play in a Sunday Night Football game (US nights) for the reason you explained, so it would have to start at night time in Europe and the afternoon in US, and for any MNF or TNF games, the european teams cannot play american teams away, and the MNF and TNF games would be played in the afternoon in US but night time in Europe.
Toronto, Portland, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, and OKC all make logistical sense AND could have their own markets. Even despite Buffalo's proximity to Toronto. I'd also suggest more Canadian additions to assimilate them to gridiron football and not leave Toronto the odd one out. Cities such as Montreal and Vancouver which are near already existing divisions gives them viability. I'd also throw Albuquerque, NMinto the mix. The viability of Canadian and American teams meeting regularly has already been proven by the NHL. The last thing I would do is put the Portland team in the Vancouver suburb just to confuse everyone. However, all of these additions would look great to the outside world, but the schedule makers would have a heart attack. I feel you'd need to switch to an 18 game/2 bye week/20 week schedule to pull this off and start earlier in the summer so that there are not too many winter games getting canceled and that the schedules remain balanced. And do you make new divisions? Or do you overload the existing ones? Lot to think about.
One drawback with Honolulu is that it can't host a 1 PM Eastern game, and even the 4 PM Eastern window would not be pretty (10 AM locally during the early part of the season). This would pretty much box them in to Sunday night. Saturday night is off limits for most of the season due to the NFL's antitrust exemption. Other nights would fall during the workweek in Hawaii.
He also argued that it takes more fuel for the airplanes to travel. We have rams, 49er, and chargers travel al across the east to take on eastern teams, the west coast teams could fly to Hawaii that would take about 2 hours
I’ve been saying it for years in regards to Hawaii/London NFL team schedule, make home and away games in blocks (4/4/4/5) cut down on travel cost having to fly across an ocean as often.
Quite stunned that Sacramento wasn't on here. Has over 2 million in Metro Population, has the Kings (which EXPLODED this year after ended their playoff drought), and tried to lure the Raiders before. I guarantee that Sacramento would make an excellent football town.
NFL players dont travel like average smucks, they fly on private jets specially designed to accommodate them. plus if they travel early in the week they'll be fine. Normal people regularly do long haul business trips already and they don't get to comlain about it.
The Raiders were planning to move to San Antonio before Jerry Jones stepped in and redirected them to Vegas, so he can keep claiming San Antonio/Austin as Cowboys territory
A great honorable honorable mention would be Lincoln or Omaha, Lincoln already has a football stadium that possibly could host a NFL team but if you want a bigger market Omaha is also a great choice also look at the college football fans in Nebraska you can't tell me they can fill a stadium atleast 8 or 9 times a year
Orlando wants a team. It's a big football town. There are some issues though: 1. Florida has 3 teams already. That said, I think the Jags are leaving Jacksonville so it's possible (heck I could see them move to Orlando) 2. They need a new stadium. Camping World Stadium is old and run down, plus it has traffic issues. It would work temporarily but not in the long-term. That said, Orlando loses out on a lot of events to Tampa due to the stadium, so it might be something the city would be willing to invest public funds in. 3. Who would own the team? Orlando City SC is owned by the Wirfs Family, who already own the Minnesota Vikings. The Magic (and Solar Bears) are owned by the DeVos Family, who is mostly Michigan based.
Business people and Military do it all the time no problem. Its only a 5 hour flight from San Fran and it takes that long from pittsburgh to San Fran I like the idea of Hawaii they have a great football following.
@@user-nj8fv4lc4y Why do you say that i traveled from pittsburgh many times both military and for business so why is it dum as hell??? always willing to talk ideas
I would add one new team to each existing division creating five team divisions and ultimately making the playoffs more interesting. I would put the teams in the following divisuons: Honolulu-NFC west Portland-NFC north Salt Lake City- NFC west San Antonio-AFC south Austin-NFC south Oklahoma City-NFC east Toronto-AFC north London-AFC east I wouldn’t touch the playoffs because it would take a stupid amount of playoff teams to allow a first seeded bye which would allow a team to rank for a draft seed AND have a shot at the super bowl in one year. It would meant that there were only 7 non-division games a season but I think that’s a good thing because that allows for a single team to play every team in a separate division in their conference and only force 2 non-conference games a year which would make the super bowl much wilder. I think the only thing wrong with the expansion would be that most people in cities with no team alr have a favorite team from another city and it would take a while for the team to get on their feet and in such an expensive league that could come back to haunt us.
I wish more people would suggest Motreal. The bills will never allow a tea in toronto but montreal is a huge city with a strong sports base. As a boston sports fan I love our Hockey rivalry would love to see some football rivalry as well. I think the CFL is already on the way out. if the XFL or the USFL are successful then the CFL will have a big competitor for lower second rate talent, and the NFL can just swoop in and take the markets over.
For the NFL to start a franchise in London then they would need to have a whole division to make the travel work out. 6 division games (3 of 8/9 home games). You would then need 2 x 3 game road trips that the team stayed in the US during these trips. That would be true for all of the 4 European Division teams.
I've always said NFL in Nebraska and Alabama would be be big as college football is crazy there. Love these expansion videos. Would love to see some on the MLS, WMBA, WMLS and even the CFL. Also oh thr alliance, how I rooted for you.
You can’t just have 1 European team. If you’re going to expand to Europe you’re going to need to add an entire European division, it’s just a logistical nightmare. Other than that though, this is a pretty good list. I’m a pretty strong advocate for Columbus, Ohio as I live closest to there, but I think it would be a good spot for a team. Fans fill the 100,000 seat Ohio Stadium on a regular basis for Ohio State games, plus Ohio is a very significant place for the NFL, you know, since it was founded there, but anyway, I don’t think the NFL expands much farther in North America, but I do think relocations are possible, and a lot of these cities would be very deserving if it were to come down to that.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they added a European division. Lot of interest for teams in England and Germany. Spain, Italy and France might be able to host a team as well. Goodell has also said he wants to make a European division and is looking at the logistics of it.
So, how this would work division wise is this NFC AFC 20 Teams 20 Teams 4 Divisions 4 Divisions North North Salt Lake Toronto East East London Oklahoma City South South San Antonio Austin West West Honolulu Portland In this the current playoff format would be expanded from 7 teams per conference to 8, 2 teams receive a Bye week and there are 2 remaining division leaders and 4 wild cards. Seeds 3-8 4-7 5-6 higher seed has home advantage.
I'd say Munich should get a NFL Team too remember the atmosphere there when the NFL decided to host a game there imagine that but 8-9 home games a year
The biggest likely barrier to expansion is that existing owners don't want to give up portions of their market (i.e. follow the money). Try to expand to Portland and the Seattle Seahawks would object. SLC and the Denver Broncos would object. San Antonio/Austin and the Cowboys would object. Even expansion outside the country to Toronto and the Buffalo Bills would object. I think London, Monterrey, MX, Montreal QC, and Mexico City would be the most likely options.
@@rchilde1 OKC got the thunder bc hurricane katrina displaced NOLA hornets and the team got better attendance than they did at home. Seattle lost out, they need a team again (sacramento kings?) but OKC thunder loyalty shows football promise. plus OK is a football state from the 1st grade to OU-OSU-Tulsa etc
Thank you for mentioning Norfolk. My uncle has wondered for years why there isn’t an NFL team there with all of the surrounding cities, like Virginia Beach, Hampton, Newport News
I’d like to mention South Carolina, maybe Spartanburg, Columbia , or Charleston. As someone from SC. We have a very huge passion for sports. My school itself has days where we wear college football jerseys, or NFL jerseys. We have a huge passion for our high school football team. And don’t get me started on our college football rivalry. Gamecocks vs Clemson (❤️🖤 let’s go gamecocks ! 🐔). Plus we have hockey teams, soccer clubs, and college baseball and basketball. We in fact have 2 minor league baseball teams. And 75% of the cars in SC I have seen have a gamecocks logo or a clemson logo on the back. So I think an NFL team would be great here, I’d suggest Williams-Bryce stadium not only for its size. But if you revamp it a little bit on the ends it looks like a full out NFL stadium. Plus lots of events are held there including the state, not just the college.
@@CharlieNDthank you. When I lived in North Dakota I was like, well yeah… I know no NFL a fans here. But in SC with the way we love sports, it feels like we have our own NFL team. A lot of my friends and people I know are Panthers fans, and for MLB they are Braves fans. I don’t think we need a MLB team since we have a minor league that is doing just fine.
With as big as college football is in the state of Alabama i have no idea why no one has already put up a pro team in the state. Bama has like a 100k seat stadium already.
"Keep in mind there is a week between NFL games." Its not uncommon for a team that played on Monday night to have to play on Thursday night and jet lag can typically last 1-1.5 days per time zone crossed. Imagine the Honolulu team playing in Metlife on Monday and then rushing all the way back to play a home game. That's a 5 hour difference alone.
personally. honolulu, albequerque, portland, omaha, salt lake city, virginia beach, oklahoma city, and as a guy born in kansas, might as well throw wichita in ther
I think NFL will look long and hard at 36 between 2032 to 2035. 40 is harder and I actually think most added teams will be aimed at Europe. But 36, 3 European teams will probably be the target.
OKC needs an NFL team. This state is divided by Ou and OSU so having one team that everyone supports would do wonders the state. The fact we don’t already have is suprising since OU is the most valuable college football team in terms of revenue.
This is the best I could come up with. I added teams in Sacramento, St. Louis, Portland, Salt Lake City, Orlando, Oklahoma City, San Antonio, and Honolulu AFC: North: Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Baltimore, Cincinnati South: Tennessee, Jacksonville, Houston, Orlando East: Buffalo, Miami, New England, NYJ West: Las Vegas, Denver, LAC, Salt Lake City Central: Indianapolis, Kansas City, San Antonio, St. Louis NFC: North: Green Bay, Minnesota, Chicago, Detroit South: Tampa Bay, LAR, Atlanta, Honolulu East: Philadelphia, NYG, Carolina, Washington West: Sacramento, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland Central: Dallas, Arizona, Oklahoma City, New Orleans
As for Toronto and the cfl easy solution. Combine nfl and cfl season tickets! So as an example you have season tickets for both teams . The cfl tickets cost very little you can sell them or give them away. This is a win win for everyone involved!
Personally my expansion would go something like this with four teams getting moved through the conferences and one team being relocated (though thats a pipe dream) NFC North: Chicago Detroit Green Bay Minnesota Winnipeg South: Carolina Dallas Orlando New Orleans Tampa East: Atlanta Philadelphia New York Saint Louis Washington West: Arizona Los Angeles Portland San Francisco Seattle AFC: North Buffalo Cincinnati Cleveland Pittsburgh Toronto South: Houston Indianapolis Jacksonville Tennessee San Antonio East: Baltimore Charlottesville Miami New England New York West Denver Kansas City Las Vegas San Diego Vancouver
Dallas and Atlanta swap places because Dallas is further South while Atlanta is far further east, Buffalo and Baltimore swapped places due to Buffalo being one of the furthest north teams (besides the hypothetical Canadian teams) and Baltimore being one of the farthest east teams, Winnipeg is in the north due to the NFC North formerly being the NFC Central and Winnipeg teams are historically put in the central division, lastly St Louis is in the east due to it being farther east than Dallas ever will be and barely qualifying for being in the central division in most leagues
I also considered swapping Vancouver and Portland due to how close Vancouver is to Seattle allowing for a rivalry to bubble Cities that almost made it include Hartford, Montgomery and Salt Lake City
Yeah Detroit is the ONLY Original NFL Team that has Never Been t the SuperBowl Matter of fact The Lions Last NFL Championship 1957 and 1 playoff game in 1991.
The central Midwest needs more than just kansas city. There are population centers here that love football memorial stadium in nebraska has been sold out for longer than many NFL teams have existed a team in omaha specially would do great. Just my opinion though. Although to my knowledge the nfl tried to get Warren buffet to buy a franchise to go to omaha but he said no. So idk.
Virginia deserves its own team. Center it in Newport News and make it a state-wide team like Arizona. Do training camp in Richmond. Washington has done that for years so Richmond knows how to host that kind of stuff. Also could give some life to the college teams.
“Dont have to worry about freezing going to this game” im writing this comment as it is 26 degrees outside here in Salt Lake City, winters are brutal on the way here (in winter ofc)
That one moment had me LOL and share this with others. Well played ... well played. I would drop Austin from the list because of the other Texas teams; instead would consider: Vancouver St. Louis or Memphis Birmingham - or even Mobile, AL for something different.
Just an idea to add 8 teams, and shuffling the divisions to maintain 4 team divisions... North West Division; Seattle, Portland (Expansion), Vancouver (Expansion), Calgary (Expansion) South West Division; San Francisco, LA, San Diego (Expansion), LA Rockies Division: Las Vegas, Arizona, Salt Lake (Expansion), Denver South Division; Dallas, Houston, San Antonio (Expansion), Mexico City (Expansion) Central Division; Kansas City, Atlanta, Tennessee, Indianapolis Great Lakes; Minnesota, Green Bay, Chicago, Detroit Steel Division; Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Toronto (Expansion) North East Division; New England, New York, New York, Philadelphia Eastern Division; Washington, Carolina, Cincinnati, Baltimore Hurricane Division; Jacksonville, Tampa, Miami, New Orleans
Great, great, great video! I think the possibility of up to 36 teams is reasonable, with Toronto, London, Salt Lake City and San Antonio being prime selections. Portland, I disagree; they are rapidly developing into the ass crack of humanity.
Interesting video and well argued, but I have a few mentions. You are right that there is big demand in the UK, and London in particular being such a huge international city with a proven track record in attendances for games brought there, but with the NFL season overlapping with the Premier League season I don't see how you would locate bi-weekly home games for a London team, not to give the team a home. You would have to fit the games for when the Premier League club isn't playing (as the big clubs who play in European competition like the Champions of Europa League usually play their games on a Sunday, and even if they played on a Monday, which isn't great for the fans it's not enough time to fix the pitch). It would affect the pitches of these clubs massively to a point where it is unfeasable to use them. So that leaves Wembley (which is used for a lot of other events during the year, as well as England internationals) and Twickenham (the home of England Rugby Union). Maybe that one is actually more feasable, but again the seasons overlap and I doubt the RFU would go for this. I personally think you have to include San Diego and St Louis as the two portions candidates for expansion. Austin is interesting, you didn't mention that we well as MLS having a team there they also host F1 with great success at the Circuit of the Americas there. You couldn't have both Austin and San Antonio though imo and I think San Antonio wins out for me. Portland, OR is also interesting and you're right that there would be a bit rivalry with the Seahawks, and having been to the area a few times and knowing some people there I don't think people from Portland support Seattle teams so there is untapped potential there. The one city that was on your honourable mentions list that I thought would have been a shoe in for a team would have been Orlando. I could see that working (although I guess you are discounting it on the basis of proximity to Tampa and Jacksonville, neither big teams will it might take fans away from), but as well as the local population you could augment attendances with those visiting the theme parks there. I guess there would be state politics at work here though and there are already vested interests that would prevent certain cities getting teams. In the end though I can't see this happening as the NFL is run by the owners and adding more teams that wouldn't necessarily grow the revenue enough for those already in the club to carry on making the same money as they do now it would not be feasible, just diluting their share. Anyway, interesting video. One final thought is that if a team was added in London, what about Germany as well, they have a bit interest in American football as well, could you have 3, one in Barcelona (maybe an international division, not sure if would work, there's just not sure the demand I guess)?
@@RokDocJekyl You are wrong. The majority of people who go to the games in London are fans of what we call American Football who watch games live every week throughout the season. They have a team they support and are like any US fan who doesn't live anywhere near the team they support players. Whether having a team located here would have enough pull that they get the numbers necessary to make it viable I don't think it's known, or whether those supporting a different team anyway would switch allegiance I don't know, but I don't think it's any different to say starting up a team in say Jacksonville or Tampa. I guess that would depend on many factors like how long you've supported a team (for non Americans, those who didn't grow up with a local team or one their father or mother supported), how much you love the game, the ability to afford to go to the games, and the competition with existing sports like the Premier League football (or even lower level teams), rugby, of anything else. I don't think it would work anywhere else in the UK outside of London, purely because of the numbers required. I'm also not sure where a team would pay because I doubt they'd be able to use an existing football stadium or Wembley every other week so there are logistical reasons as well, and costs involved in flying opposition, and even the team located here, backwards and forwards across the Atlantic, but I don't see the size of the potential fanbase as being the issue.
Stadium in London isn’t an issue at all, the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium was co-funded by the NFL and was purposely designed to host both sports (soccer and football). The stadium has two pitches, one for soccer and one for football that can be swapped over in less than an hour so there won’t be any issues around pitch wear and tear. Logistics are the only real issue but we’ve seen already that 3 games a season at least can be held over here. If you add a Munich team plus 2 other European teams then you have a whole new division which takes some of the strain off scheduling as it won’t require flying US teams out there all the time. You could have them stay in Europe for two weeks at a time and play 2 European cross divisional road games in that time frame. Broadcasting would be a bit tricky but not impossible by any stretch. Americans regularly wake up in their millions in the morning to watch premier league games so tuning into an earlier game a handful of times a season shouldn’t be too difficult. UK fans are already watching NFL in massive numbers despite the late kick off times here. I’m a 49ers fan since childhood so around 20 years (I’m 25 now) and MNF games kick off at 1am here but I’ll still watch them regardless of who’s playing because I love the league and sport so much and I’m just one of many millions who do the same thing week in week out. I think a London team is extremely plausible and will happen within 10 years. I think the jaguars will relocate at the very least
@@ggrimm2118 I don't think the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium was funded for more than one or two games a year, having more would be difficult to fit in because it is used for football regularly. I don't think the NFL owns half the stadium this example, it invested with the condition of it hosting a few games a year but he the home of a team as far as I know. I can't see how that could happen with the demands of a busy football season. I also agree that there are UK fans, but to call this audience massive is a stretch and it is tiny compared to the US market. Many British fans will have the NFL from Sky Sports that most have to watch Premier League football and I doubt Sky plays a huge amount for the rights, not like in the US. All this goes to my argument that it would probably need to be subsidised some way, at least to start with. I can't see London having two teams being possible and I don't think there is another UK market but enough for an NFL franchise to work. I have my doubts about 3 in Germany having enough support. Sure these handful of events are well attended at the moment but they are novelties, one offs for many, except for the hardcore, which I will doubt is big enough. I'll be surprised if this happens but we'll see.
@@mattpotter8725 if the premier league and nfl came to an agreement that meant each party got higher exposure in the others main market then the PL would move Tottenham’s fixtures accordingly. Any deal would have to include Tottenham Hostpur getting windfall also which I believe is very do-able seeing as they own the stadium for starters, maybe the NFL team could be an extension of the soccer team in the same way European clubs have their own basketball teams. I think the market is a lot bigger than people think. The fashion of the sport alone has exposed the market to unprecedented levels. I do believe there needs to be some sort of infrastructure to enable fans from all over the country to attend games though but that’s something for the government to look at. Sky pay a lot of money for their rights and as such have the dedicated NFL channel. Channel 5 managed to snag the Monday night slot but even that was attained with help from Sky. Overall, as someone who knows business and knows sports, this expansion/relocation is more than feasible, it’s inevitable. I don’t think the NFL do enough to promote themselves over here throughout the year yet, they seem a little wary and don’t want to throw too much at it but if they were to ramp up the marketing nationwide then the UK market would be an absolute game changer for them. They have a foothold here already but if the XFL starts to do pretty well then they might just beat NFL to the punch of having either a UK/Europe division OR a team based over here. The iron is getting very hot and the NFL need to strike and take advantage before it’s too late
I believe for the NFL to get to 40 teams, they'll go with any of St. Louis, San Diego, Oakland, Chicago (second team), San Antonio, Oklahoma City, Salt Lake City, Portland, Omaha, Norfolk, Grand Rapids, Memphis, Birmingham, Hartford, Hawaii, Orlando, Toronto, Mexico City and London.
When the Raiders were picking out where to move (the most recent one mind you) San Antonio was actually the first choice Davis had heck he owns enough land in the area to put at stadium on but was blocked by Jerry Jones as he doesn’t want a third Texas team as the Texans take enough possible revenue from the Cowboys organization as is. London is something that NFL commissioner Roger Goddell wants and most believe that if it happens it’ll involve the Jags moving there rather than a NFL expansion. Finally on the topic of Canada the NFL was interested in putting a team there but Canada stopped them as they don’t want to kill the CFL
Might sound weird but I’d honestly love seeing a team in Alaska would be just as difficult as Hawaii but holy shit Alaska has perfect football weather rain snow cold games there would be amazing as hell
Putting a team in London is a logistical problem to play one game it can take months of preparation if teams in the Davison have to play their twice it would be a challenge
When it comes to, Austin and San Antonio, and the comment about being two close, remember we had LA with two teams, and before LA and SD wish that was 2 hours drive, so for a state know for guns, BBQ, and football, I don’t see why not, but just incase they should use the XFL as the expansion league, to show the NFL that fans can fill the stadium
100% agree with SLC! The football culture is much stronger there than a lot of people realize. Both UofU and BYU are regularly ranked teams that sell out home games, there's no reason a Utah NFL team couldn't, either. And altitude isn't a factor against it either, Denver is already higher up by 800 feet. I can't say I'm big on Austin. I know that the Eagles, Ravens, and Commanders all play within 100 miles of each other, but Texas isn't as densely populated. I think a San Antonio team is close enough to Austin to draw plenty of fans from both cities. As for Honolulu and London, they're just too far away. There's a reason teams get bye weeks after playing in London. Not to mention the insane logistics of a Honolulu-London game, because both teams would be bound to play each other at some point. I think a lot of the honorable mentions would be better fit for a team, and I'd add to that list Omaha, Nebraska.
Don’t get me wrong. I’d love to make the NFL an international thing. But I am fairly confident that it wouldn’t work, not yet anyway. Adding more domestic teams? Absolutely that’ll do just fine. But international teams? I don’t think we are big enough outside of the US to do it. But NFL’s bonds with foreign politicians and having a lot of international games has gotten us possibly just a few years away from going international. Given travel time, player hesitation, bureaucracy and paper work, diplomacy, and the potential cost…I’m sure the NFL will be hesitant. I think it will be one of those things that struggles at first, I think it will cost the NFL money. I think for a year or two it will not turn a profit, it will actually be in the red. BUT, after a year or two or maybe even 3 or 4…I think it will catch on and be a mainstay. Ultimately the NFL needs to see the long term gain and not the short term loss. The fact is, especially with the pure chaos that last season was, the NFL has come under more fire than usual in recent years. Even the government had to get involved a few times. Last season wasn’t boring by any stretch of the imagination, but there’s been nothing new. Last year’s draft class was largely a disappointment, outside of a few guys who are going be absolute studs for years to come. Chiefs won the Super Bowl. Pretty normal. There were some nice surprises in the Seahawks, Lions, and Jags. But two out of 8 divisions were hot garbage the whole year and, for the most part, remain that way. Two of the greatest most famous players are gone, one out for the season due to injury and one retired. The Broncos remain irrelevant and the overhyped Jets had their season ended in the most Jets way possible, 4 plays into the first drive of their first game. This franchise has been cursed since Joe Namath sold his soul for a Lombardi Trophy back in the 60s. It feels like a boring few years are upcoming.
Here's mine, but if the AFC and NFC were renamed into Eastern Football Conference and Western Football Conference: WFC Pacific: Seattle San Francisco LA Rams LA Chargers Honolulu WFC Southwest: Arizona Houston Dallas New Orleans Oklahoma City WFC Midwest: Minnesota Green Bay Chicago Detroit Milwaukee WFC Farmland: Denver Kansas City Tennessee St. Louis Salt Lake City EFC South: Atlanta Jacksonville Miami Tampa Bay Orlando EFC Mid-Atlantic: Carolina Washington Baltimore Philadelphia Arlington, Virginia EFC Rust Belt: Indianapolis Cleveland Cincinnati Pittsburgh Canton EFC Northeast: Buffalo NY Giants NY Jets New England New Jersey
2:05 The Packers are a 100 year old franchise steeped in history and tradition. I'd bet that most of the fans at Packers games aren't from Green Bay but rather from the rest of Wisconsin or even other surrounding states (I'm from Minnesota, and there are A LOT of Packers fans here), who are able to drive to Green Bay for the game. If the Packers had either never existed or folded early on, Wisconsin would likely have a team in Milwaukee (which used to host a lot of Packers games). Hawaii has a population of 1.3 million scattered across seven main islands and many smaller ones, and is located smack dab in the middle of the Pacific Ocean over 2,000 miles from the American mainland. Not only would it be an incredibly small market, but it'd also be an incredibly isolated market. Once Hawaii gets a replacement for Aloha Stadium they should host the Pro Bowl again, but I don't think a Hawaiian team would work.
Hawaii would work for an NFL team for the same exact reason as Las Vegas works. Tourists are going there and they will buy tickets to games. And people who fly to Hawaii for a vacation will be happy to pay $1000 dollars per ticket for garbage seating. And they'll be just as happy to drop $100,000 per ticket for box suites. Also, league expansion would put NFL games on more television sets. And Hawaii would open up the NFL for advertising revenue to be made around the entire Pacific rim.
It would make the NFL shit loads of cash.
Not to mention Green Bay already caters to the Milwaukee metro area which has a population of 1.5 million
Not to mention Green Bay is also an extremely rare case of not having a single owner with a lot of power. The team is owned by hundreds of different people, otherwise the Packers would've moved out of Green Bay decades and decades ago into a bigger market.
@@nick266 The Packers actually have over 500,000 shareholders. I've even met some before.
One major objection to Honalulu has nothing to do with travel time. The Aloha Bowl is rotting away and has been impossible to properly maintain in the Hawaiian atmosphere.
The NFL in Salt Lake City would do well. Utah has a vibrant football crowd. Both the University of Utah and Brigham Young University regularly fill their stadiums as do the smaller schools. A Utah based team would likely draw fans and support from all over the Great Basin, western Wyoming and eastern Idaho. While the video mentions the population of the Salt Lake metro area, that is only Salt Lake County and southern Davis County. The greater Wasatch Front including Ogden, Provo and Orem sits at 2.66 million so there is a decent potential fan base within a 45 minute drive of an NFL stadium.
I live in Ogden and would love to see a game or 2 a year for sure
It would be cool but I don't think they would play on Sundays at home. The city shuts down on sundays
to note something. For the logistical stuff, you can argue that Salt lake has in fact had experience where it would come to logistical issue, as they were a host city for the Olympics
I don’t think the NFL would go for never playing games on Sunday. The LDS is too strong in SLC.
The NFL has huge beer & sports betting advertisers, and Utah's one of the strictest states in regards to both drinking & gambling. Sounds like a poor mix.
As a Lions fan, that joke was funny af! Sometimes even i forget 😢
Impossible to forget now
We had a joke in Texas during the Oiler days:
Did you hear the rumor that San Antonio might get an pro football team? Well, it will never happen, because if San Antonio gets one, then Houston will want one too.
London doesn't need a NFL TEAM, SAN Antonio Yes.
We don’t want one, either
@@bcfcmatt lmao yes you do. The jags are inevitably going to relocate. They have more success over there than they do in Jacksonville. They’ve been preparing for it for basically the last 10 years. The results speak for themselves
San Antone wouldn’t ditch the Cowboys for a new team
Bro Texas already has two teams. One really good team and one really bad team. We don’t need another three team state. Instead, the Mid West and really Middle US areas need teams.
@@regalcartoon5932 yea like Omaha, St. Louis, Oklahoma City, and possibly Des Moines
This season the NFL is bringing a game in Berlin, Germany. I remember back in the day where preseason games were played in Japan, Ireland, Sweden and Spain. Games in Japan where played at the Tokyo Dome known as the American Bowl during the 80s and 90s
i think we will see every team playing a international game 1 day
Especially with the 17 games so
8 home 8 away and 1 international
I remember the World League with the likes of the London Monarchs, Rhein Fire, Barcelona Dragons, was there also the Frankfurt Galaxy and Berlin Thunder, and although it folded eventually when setting London mentioned I immediately thought that if you had a team in London and one (or two) in Germany it would mean teams traveling across the Atlantic could have two games before traveling back. I'm not quite sure how it would work as I have my doubts about London from a stadium point of view (not that they don't exist, but that they are regularly used for other things and fitting in 8-9 games wouldn't work), and the same is probably true in Germany (could they get 60,000+ attendances as that's what is probably needed for NFL franchises today, and is there a stadium that could be used). Nice idea though, but I don't really see it happening.
You're thinking of college football with Ireland and Japan.
@@jbj7599 There have been plenty of NFL preseason games in Japan though it has been awhile.
@@MrMarkiemark67 yup my memory was wrong, shoulda Googled it. Now I need to see if they played on the 110 yard field(or who did). My brains gotta be right about that at least lol
Really interesting video. Being a die-hard, life-long CFL fan, I sometimes am concerned about the NFL coming to Toronto. I know all the CFL execs fear that if TO got an NFL team, that would mean the death of the Argos and if there was no CFL team in TO, then the CFL would fold. I'm not totally sure about that, but since TO is such a huge TV market, it seems no one is willing to roll the dice with letting the CFL try and survive without TO. I've enjoyed watching the NFL lately. I used to find it so boring. Run, Run, pass, punt. But thankfully the NFL has taken on more of a wide-open (CFL-like) feel to it. We have to remember that the CFL had the two point convert almost a decade before the NFL adopted it--so a lot of good things have come to the NFL via experimentation in the Crazy Football League. No one can argue with the energy that the NFL produces with their big TV money and bigger than life player talent. I've also noticed that many venues now have as much cheering for the visiting team as the home team. Rivalries are great for that! Many of you are too young to know, but the CFL used to be very big. There were grey Cups in Toronto and Montreal over the years that drew close to 70,000 fans. And in fact in the 1970s and 1980s linemen could make more money in the CFL than in the NFL. However when TV money got big in the US, that's when things changed. The CFL is still a gate-driven league, whereas an NFL team with only 25% of their seats full could still make money because of TV revenue. All this to say, its not that I'd mind an NFL team in Canada, but I'd not like the CFL to die. I'd like to see more talent in the CFL to bring back the joy of the game. Also, I don't think that the NFL is more popular with young people because the game is better, its just that the NFL has most of the money and so they can promote and advertise and appeal to the younger crowd. Hard to do when a league is strapped for cash. Anyways, great video. Keep up the good work!
While I respect how old and storied the CFL is, there's no doubt the league is past its prime. It's a league with a lot of great talent (arguably on-par with the NFL), but I feel like an NFL team could really respark real football passion in Toronto. Although at the end of the day everything I said in this video is purely hypothetical and hopeful. I don't think the CFL is going anywhere for the foreseeable future.
Covid taught us Canada cannot be trusted
Well they were charging $150 min. Per ticket in TO to see a Bills game yrs ago...that's why it failed imo. If it happened, I'd still be a Bills fan though
Im a high schooler in winnipeg and i think the cfl is actually on the rise here cause young people now know that you can get season tickets for less than $300 and see the bombers win most of their games. I can see how it would be on a decline in Edmonton and the other bad teams, who would want to pay to see their team go 3-14.
Hardly anyone in Toronto cares about the Argos. They couldn't even sell out their playoff game this year.
I spent some time in San Antonio years ago and the locals really wanted a NFL team back then.
I live in San Antonio and I do want a team there even though I’m a niners fan
@@toaster2911 I think it would be cool if you guys got a team. I also am a niners fan.
The Raiders were going there, but Jerry Jones threw a fit. So they moved to Vegas instead.
@@DanielVeteto-fj4fiIt will take someone to basically get in Jerry Jones face and get it in his thick skull San Antonio would make a ton of sense and make Texas very very strong.
San diego needs a nfl team again
Remember that Honolulu had a team in the WFL in the 70s, and there were logistical problems. The University of Hawaii football team gets to host an extra game to cover their travel costs to the mainland, so any NFL team would always have to host 9 games each season. You would probably have to put two teams from the same market in the same division to even out the schedule.
The Canadian government threatened to pass legislation to keep the WFL out of Toronto to protect the CFL. They'd probably do it again if the NFL tries.
Another thing to think about is that the NFL would have some competition with college football in some markets, depending on how good the teams are.
You say that as if the Trudeau government ever passes legislation to begin with.
The Polynesian Pirates could be a good name for hawaii
College football doesn't necessarily overrule the NFL or vice versa. The Saints and LSU Tigers were both really good in 2019, and there's no split allegiances amongst Louisianians.
You’re absolutely insane to think that Canada would reject an NFL team. Do you know how much revenue that brings to a city? Like you can’t be serious and think they’d reject that.
San Antonio and Austin should team up and share one team. Call them the TEXAS OUTLAWS so no one city gets recognition. Plus build the stadium in the middle like in New Braunfels. While the new stadium is under construction the team can play 4 home games at the Alamodome and 4 in DKR to build the fan base.
This is the best plan in this comment section
Living in San Marcos a stadium in NB would be awesome. If not NB on I-35 by the Creedmoor exit just south of Austin would not be a bad location.
I always liked the name San Antonio Marshals, but with this plan of sharing a team between San Antonio & Austin, I like the name the Texas Marshals.
How about The San Antonio Armadillos
Recently Roger Goodell said that Europe has the market for 4 teams, London alone could support 2. If I had to pick 4 Euro teams if there is credence to that comment, I'd have London, 2 German teams and either Amsterdam or Brussels. I think Paris could maybe sneak in based on just size and money but the NFL hasn't really been pushing that one as an option.
your right, how about London, Barcelona, 2 in germany
In my opinion the biggest challenge of expanding to 36 or 40 teams is to create a new good working schedule formula. I tried it a bit but the results never made me happy about it.
Gotta do some constraint programming. We had to try and make a program that scheduled games for an expanded league under all of the requirements (by weeks, division games, etc..) and it was extremely hard and most couldn’t do it. My professor actually helped write the program that the nfl currently uses
The real biggest challenge is finding enough QBs to start for 40 nfl teams, we can't even find enough for 32 rn
@@symptomofsouls wdym enough QBs? there are plenty of players in colleges, some may not be good but there will always be the best currently skilled players
@@symptomofsouls There's teams like the 49ers that have 3 starting QBs. All we need is teams to stop hoarding them
@@Z64sports wrong. SF has 2, Jimmy G and Purdy. Lance is horrific. And jimmy g will be gone next season. Also there are multiple teams that don't have a starting caliber qb rn
I think a London expansions team should come with another team in Europe, I nominate Munich. We’ve already seen the wild success of the Germany game and apparently the NFL is super popular over there. Plus there’s a huge US military base over there, so it could give the opportunity to give the troops another taste of home while on duty.
I think that Honolulu would be a great place to hold the Super Bowl in every year.
It should be in the rotation
SLC blends in with the other cities next to it. We could fill a stadium. The AAF was garbage with advertising. I did not even know we had a team.
I would really like to see NFL teams in Toronto and Mexico City, as well as maybe Vancouver, if not in Europe as well, without relocating teams like the Bills or Cardinals tho. Teams first in Canada and Mexico would just be a lot easier, both logistically and as far as player health and traveling goes. I also think both countries easily have the fanbase to support at least one NFL team
Interesting and well argued video. I live in London and I don't think the NFL should have a franchise here for a few reasons. The logistics would be a huge challenge - realistically a London team would need to be based on the American east cost for away games. Taxation rates here are also much higher than in the US - it would put players off and a UK franchise would be at considerable disadvantage in free agency. Time zones are also an issue - you couldn't have London home games in a prime time slot as they'd be starting around 1am British time.
I think London has a pretty good deal with three matches a season or so, and they should keep it that way. There's definitely enough interest to support a franchise but imo it just isn't practical.
The only way I can see them putting franchises in London is if they also expand to 3 more cities around europe, such as in Berlin, Paris, and Amsterdam and put those 4 teams in 1 division. Then, if the games are played on Sunday, they will never play in a Sunday Night Football game (US nights) for the reason you explained, so it would have to start at night time in Europe and the afternoon in US, and for any MNF or TNF games, the european teams cannot play american teams away, and the MNF and TNF games would be played in the afternoon in US but night time in Europe.
Toronto, Portland, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, and OKC all make logistical sense AND could have their own markets. Even despite Buffalo's proximity to Toronto. I'd also suggest more Canadian additions to assimilate them to gridiron football and not leave Toronto the odd one out. Cities such as Montreal and Vancouver which are near already existing divisions gives them viability. I'd also throw Albuquerque, NMinto the mix. The viability of Canadian and American teams meeting regularly has already been proven by the NHL. The last thing I would do is put the Portland team in the Vancouver suburb just to confuse everyone.
However, all of these additions would look great to the outside world, but the schedule makers would have a heart attack. I feel you'd need to switch to an 18 game/2 bye week/20 week schedule to pull this off and start earlier in the summer so that there are not too many winter games getting canceled and that the schedules remain balanced. And do you make new divisions? Or do you overload the existing ones? Lot to think about.
St Louis and San Antonio need one
For sure
One drawback with Honolulu is that it can't host a 1 PM Eastern game, and even the 4 PM Eastern window would not be pretty (10 AM locally during the early part of the season). This would pretty much box them in to Sunday night. Saturday night is off limits for most of the season due to the NFL's antitrust exemption. Other nights would fall during the workweek in Hawaii.
He also argued that it takes more fuel for the airplanes to travel. We have rams, 49er, and chargers travel al across the east to take on eastern teams, the west coast teams could fly to Hawaii that would take about 2 hours
@@kevinkeung9336A flight from California to Hawaii takes almost 6 hours. I wish it were 2 as well lol
I think Omaha should get one. As a Nebraskan, football is our whole state.
So glad you put Norfolk 😂😂 we need something exciting over here!
I’ve been saying it for years in regards to Hawaii/London NFL team schedule, make home and away games in blocks (4/4/4/5) cut down on travel cost having to fly across an ocean as often.
Quite stunned that Sacramento wasn't on here. Has over 2 million in Metro Population, has the Kings (which EXPLODED this year after ended their playoff drought), and tried to lure the Raiders before. I guarantee that Sacramento would make an excellent football town.
Sacramento would be a good place imo
I will never forget the AAF, Apollos forever :,)
@JackAttack4700 I picked the Apollos way before the season started.
Instead of HI, Vancouver BC. Now youd have a Pacific NW corridor akin to the eastern seaboard.
Damn imagine the travel time for the game between Honolulu and London lol
NFL players dont travel like average smucks, they fly on private jets specially designed to accommodate them. plus if they travel early in the week they'll be fine. Normal people regularly do long haul business trips already and they don't get to comlain about it.
The Raiders were planning to move to San Antonio before Jerry Jones stepped in and redirected them to Vegas, so he can keep claiming San Antonio/Austin as Cowboys territory
That will come to a screeching halt. Jerry will wind up getting taken to court over this. San Antonio will get an expansion team.
A great honorable honorable mention would be Lincoln or Omaha, Lincoln already has a football stadium that possibly could host a NFL team but if you want a bigger market Omaha is also a great choice also look at the college football fans in Nebraska you can't tell me they can fill a stadium atleast 8 or 9 times a year
That's what I've been thinking!
“If it can hold an NBA team, it can hold an NFL team” is such flawed logic
Orlando wants a team. It's a big football town. There are some issues though:
1. Florida has 3 teams already. That said, I think the Jags are leaving Jacksonville so it's possible (heck I could see them move to Orlando)
2. They need a new stadium. Camping World Stadium is old and run down, plus it has traffic issues. It would work temporarily but not in the long-term. That said, Orlando loses out on a lot of events to Tampa due to the stadium, so it might be something the city would be willing to invest public funds in.
3. Who would own the team? Orlando City SC is owned by the Wirfs Family, who already own the Minnesota Vikings. The Magic (and Solar Bears) are owned by the DeVos Family, who is mostly Michigan based.
Could you imagine being on the Hawaii team? Flying back and forth from the island to the mainland every other week. Sounds like hell
Business people and Military do it all the time no problem. Its only a 5 hour flight from San Fran and it takes that long from pittsburgh to San Fran I like the idea of Hawaii they have a great football following.
@@jenkinsbrian0126u gotta be dumb as hell to think that’s a good idea
@@user-nj8fv4lc4y Why do you say that i traveled from pittsburgh many times both military and for business so why is it dum as hell??? always willing to talk ideas
I got such a laugh out of you including Detroit on this list.
I would add one new team to each existing division creating five team divisions and ultimately making the playoffs more interesting. I would put the teams in the following divisuons:
Honolulu-NFC west
Portland-NFC north
Salt Lake City- NFC west
San Antonio-AFC south
Austin-NFC south
Oklahoma City-NFC east
Toronto-AFC north
London-AFC east
I wouldn’t touch the playoffs because it would take a stupid amount of playoff teams to allow a first seeded bye which would allow a team to rank for a draft seed AND have a shot at the super bowl in one year. It would meant that there were only 7 non-division games a season but I think that’s a good thing because that allows for a single team to play every team in a separate division in their conference and only force 2 non-conference games a year which would make the super bowl much wilder. I think the only thing wrong with the expansion would be that most people in cities with no team alr have a favorite team from another city and it would take a while for the team to get on their feet and in such an expensive league that could come back to haunt us.
I wish more people would suggest Motreal. The bills will never allow a tea in toronto but montreal is a huge city with a strong sports base. As a boston sports fan I love our Hockey rivalry would love to see some football rivalry as well. I think the CFL is already on the way out. if the XFL or the USFL are successful then the CFL will have a big competitor for lower second rate talent, and the NFL can just swoop in and take the markets over.
For the NFL to start a franchise in London then they would need to have a whole division to make the travel work out. 6 division games (3 of 8/9 home games). You would then need 2 x 3 game road trips that the team stayed in the US during these trips. That would be true for all of the 4 European Division teams.
Haven’t ever watched you before but that was a top level video, good job!
Norfolk needs a team
I've always said NFL in Nebraska and Alabama would be be big as college football is crazy there. Love these expansion videos. Would love to see some on the MLS, WMBA, WMLS and even the CFL. Also oh thr alliance, how I rooted for you.
That’s the problem though, especially in the South…college football is bigger. And the Alabama Crimson Tide are wildly popular in Alabama.
You can’t just have 1 European team. If you’re going to expand to Europe you’re going to need to add an entire European division, it’s just a logistical nightmare. Other than that though, this is a pretty good list. I’m a pretty strong advocate for Columbus, Ohio as I live closest to there, but I think it would be a good spot for a team. Fans fill the 100,000 seat Ohio Stadium on a regular basis for Ohio State games, plus Ohio is a very significant place for the NFL, you know, since it was founded there, but anyway, I don’t think the NFL expands much farther in North America, but I do think relocations are possible, and a lot of these cities would be very deserving if it were to come down to that.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they added a European division. Lot of interest for teams in England and Germany. Spain, Italy and France might be able to host a team as well. Goodell has also said he wants to make a European division and is looking at the logistics of it.
Im from Detroit. You aint have to do us like that! 🤣🤣🤣
So, how this would work division wise is this
NFC AFC
20 Teams 20 Teams
4 Divisions 4 Divisions
North North
Salt Lake Toronto
East East
London Oklahoma City
South South
San Antonio Austin
West West
Honolulu Portland
In this the current playoff format would be expanded from 7 teams per conference to 8, 2 teams receive a Bye week and there are 2 remaining division leaders and 4 wild cards. Seeds 3-8 4-7 5-6 higher seed has home advantage.
I'd say Munich should get a NFL Team too remember the atmosphere there when the NFL decided to host a game there imagine that but 8-9 home games a year
Imagine a world where both Hawaii and the uk have nfl teams.
Lol the diss on the Lions
I swear the jab at the Lions was the reason this video got recommended to me. GDI
The biggest likely barrier to expansion is that existing owners don't want to give up portions of their market (i.e. follow the money). Try to expand to Portland and the Seattle Seahawks would object. SLC and the Denver Broncos would object. San Antonio/Austin and the Cowboys would object. Even expansion outside the country to Toronto and the Buffalo Bills would object. I think London, Monterrey, MX, Montreal QC, and Mexico City would be the most likely options.
A football team in Hawaii would have a nice influx of wealthy/ vacationers in my
Opinions. Similar to Las Vegas golden knights or UFC fights.
Glad you put OKC on there
def agree. BTW, OKC city is now 701K and (likely) over 1.5M metro. NFL will def work in OKC, just need a stadium.
@@rchilde1 OKC got the thunder bc hurricane katrina displaced NOLA hornets and the team got better attendance than they did at home. Seattle lost out, they need a team again (sacramento kings?) but OKC thunder loyalty shows football promise. plus OK is a football state from the 1st grade to OU-OSU-Tulsa etc
Thank you for mentioning Norfolk. My uncle has wondered for years why there isn’t an NFL team there with all of the surrounding cities, like Virginia Beach, Hampton, Newport News
Washington is too close to there
@@58twright The same could be said for the NY teams, Washington and baltimore, Cleveland and Cincinatti
I’d like to mention South Carolina, maybe Spartanburg, Columbia , or Charleston. As someone from SC. We have a very huge passion for sports. My school itself has days where we wear college football jerseys, or NFL jerseys. We have a huge passion for our high school football team. And don’t get me started on our college football rivalry. Gamecocks vs Clemson (❤️🖤 let’s go gamecocks ! 🐔). Plus we have hockey teams, soccer clubs, and college baseball and basketball. We in fact have 2 minor league baseball teams. And 75% of the cars in SC I have seen have a gamecocks logo or a clemson logo on the back. So I think an NFL team would be great here, I’d suggest Williams-Bryce stadium not only for its size. But if you revamp it a little bit on the ends it looks like a full out NFL stadium. Plus lots of events are held there including the state, not just the college.
I love receiving detailed comments like these. Nice to see your passion for SC. No doubt the passion for football is strong down there.
@@CharlieNDthank you. When I lived in North Dakota I was like, well yeah… I know no NFL a fans here. But in SC with the way we love sports, it feels like we have our own NFL team. A lot of my friends and people I know are Panthers fans, and for MLB they are Braves fans. I don’t think we need a MLB team since we have a minor league that is doing just fine.
Green Bay was one of the first teams founded and the north is the most die hard fans
OMAHA should be on the list. no pro teams in the state, huge love for the sport, and it’s bigger than Miami
With as big as college football is in the state of Alabama i have no idea why no one has already put up a pro team in the state. Bama has like a 100k seat stadium already.
"Keep in mind there is a week between NFL games."
Its not uncommon for a team that played on Monday night to have to play on Thursday night and jet lag can typically last 1-1.5 days per time zone crossed. Imagine the Honolulu team playing in Metlife on Monday and then rushing all the way back to play a home game. That's a 5 hour difference alone.
Good well researched video. Love it when these type of videos from all channels pop up in my recommended
Thanks!
personally. honolulu, albequerque, portland, omaha, salt lake city, virginia beach, oklahoma city, and as a guy born in kansas, might as well throw wichita in ther
I think NFL will look long and hard at 36 between 2032 to 2035. 40 is harder and I actually think most added teams will be aimed at Europe. But 36, 3 European teams will probably be the target.
Why 2032?
OKC needs an NFL team. This state is divided by Ou and OSU so having one team that everyone supports would do wonders the state. The fact we don’t already have is suprising since OU is the most valuable college football team in terms of revenue.
What would be a good a name for a team in Oklahoma (City)?
@@WMFilms25 twisters
This is the best I could come up with. I added teams in Sacramento, St. Louis, Portland, Salt Lake City, Orlando, Oklahoma City, San Antonio, and Honolulu
AFC:
North: Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Baltimore, Cincinnati
South: Tennessee, Jacksonville, Houston, Orlando
East: Buffalo, Miami, New England, NYJ
West: Las Vegas, Denver, LAC, Salt Lake City
Central: Indianapolis, Kansas City, San Antonio, St. Louis
NFC:
North: Green Bay, Minnesota, Chicago, Detroit
South: Tampa Bay, LAR, Atlanta, Honolulu
East: Philadelphia, NYG, Carolina, Washington
West: Sacramento, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland
Central: Dallas, Arizona, Oklahoma City, New Orleans
As for Toronto and the cfl easy solution. Combine nfl and cfl season tickets! So as an example you have season tickets for both teams . The cfl tickets cost very little you can sell them or give them away. This is a win win for everyone involved!
The Detroit bit got me
Love how you included Detroit 😂😂
Nobody is forgetting the Lions now. One pride!!!!!!
Imagine a honolulu team traveling to london for 1 game,maybe both travel to a stadium for a team with a bye week so the travel time is decreased
I feel like Omaha would be a better choice than Norfolk in Honorable Mentions.
hear me out. Mexico city, berlin, savanna, and sidney!
Personally my expansion would go something like this with four teams getting moved through the conferences and one team being relocated (though thats a pipe dream)
NFC
North:
Chicago
Detroit
Green Bay
Minnesota
Winnipeg
South:
Carolina
Dallas
Orlando
New Orleans
Tampa
East:
Atlanta
Philadelphia
New York
Saint Louis
Washington
West:
Arizona
Los Angeles
Portland
San Francisco
Seattle
AFC:
North
Buffalo
Cincinnati
Cleveland
Pittsburgh
Toronto
South:
Houston
Indianapolis
Jacksonville
Tennessee
San Antonio
East:
Baltimore
Charlottesville
Miami
New England
New York
West
Denver
Kansas City
Las Vegas
San Diego
Vancouver
Dallas and Atlanta swap places because Dallas is further South while Atlanta is far further east, Buffalo and Baltimore swapped places due to Buffalo being one of the furthest north teams (besides the hypothetical Canadian teams) and Baltimore being one of the farthest east teams, Winnipeg is in the north due to the NFC North formerly being the NFC Central and Winnipeg teams are historically put in the central division, lastly St Louis is in the east due to it being farther east than Dallas ever will be and barely qualifying for being in the central division in most leagues
I also considered swapping Vancouver and Portland due to how close Vancouver is to Seattle allowing for a rivalry to bubble
Cities that almost made it include Hartford, Montgomery and Salt Lake City
Why Charlottesville??
charlottesville? in virginia?
@@thanoskermit3912 I confused it with Charlotte in Carolina xD
Yeah Detroit is the ONLY Original NFL Team that has Never Been t the SuperBowl Matter of fact The Lions Last NFL Championship 1957 and 1 playoff game in 1991.
Bro there are a lot of football fans in Hawaii. Most of them are Steelers, Niners, Seahawks And Raiders fans
Look how many soccer clubs there are in Europe and how close they are. Football mad Texas could support a third NFL team without a problem.
Hey, watch that tongue!! The Detroit Lions were two quarters away from going to the Super Bowl!! 14-6 record overall in 2023.
yknow what. lincoln deserves a team
The central Midwest needs more than just kansas city. There are population centers here that love football memorial stadium in nebraska has been sold out for longer than many NFL teams have existed a team in omaha specially would do great. Just my opinion though. Although to my knowledge the nfl tried to get Warren buffet to buy a franchise to go to omaha but he said no. So idk.
Oh but that Detroit joke didn't age well
Virginia deserves its own team.
Center it in Newport News and make it a state-wide team like Arizona.
Do training camp in Richmond. Washington has done that for years so Richmond knows how to host that kind of stuff. Also could give some life to the college teams.
“Dont have to worry about freezing going to this game” im writing this comment as it is 26 degrees outside here in Salt Lake City, winters are brutal on the way here (in winter ofc)
That one moment had me LOL and share this with others. Well played ... well played.
I would drop Austin from the list because of the other Texas teams; instead would consider:
Vancouver
St. Louis or Memphis
Birmingham - or even Mobile, AL for something different.
One San Antonio team would suffice for austin, it’d be smart if they were based in new braunfels tho
Just an idea to add 8 teams, and shuffling the divisions to maintain 4 team divisions...
North West Division; Seattle, Portland (Expansion), Vancouver (Expansion), Calgary (Expansion)
South West Division; San Francisco, LA, San Diego (Expansion), LA
Rockies Division: Las Vegas, Arizona, Salt Lake (Expansion), Denver
South Division; Dallas, Houston, San Antonio (Expansion), Mexico City (Expansion)
Central Division; Kansas City, Atlanta, Tennessee, Indianapolis
Great Lakes; Minnesota, Green Bay, Chicago, Detroit
Steel Division; Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Toronto (Expansion)
North East Division; New England, New York, New York, Philadelphia
Eastern Division; Washington, Carolina, Cincinnati, Baltimore
Hurricane Division; Jacksonville, Tampa, Miami, New Orleans
Great, great, great video! I think the possibility of up to 36 teams is reasonable, with Toronto, London, Salt Lake City and San Antonio being prime selections. Portland, I disagree; they are rapidly developing into the ass crack of humanity.
Lions are hot 4 months later, that joke didn’t age too well :/
But i do agree
Before Katrina, the owners of the Saints were in talks with San Antonio on moving the team to Central Texas.
Moving the Saints is a bad move because Louisiana and most of Mississippi love the Saints and the Saints get great attendance at home games
Interesting video and well argued, but I have a few mentions. You are right that there is big demand in the UK, and London in particular being such a huge international city with a proven track record in attendances for games brought there, but with the NFL season overlapping with the Premier League season I don't see how you would locate bi-weekly home games for a London team, not to give the team a home. You would have to fit the games for when the Premier League club isn't playing (as the big clubs who play in European competition like the Champions of Europa League usually play their games on a Sunday, and even if they played on a Monday, which isn't great for the fans it's not enough time to fix the pitch). It would affect the pitches of these clubs massively to a point where it is unfeasable to use them. So that leaves Wembley (which is used for a lot of other events during the year, as well as England internationals) and Twickenham (the home of England Rugby Union). Maybe that one is actually more feasable, but again the seasons overlap and I doubt the RFU would go for this.
I personally think you have to include San Diego and St Louis as the two portions candidates for expansion. Austin is interesting, you didn't mention that we well as MLS having a team there they also host F1 with great success at the Circuit of the Americas there. You couldn't have both Austin and San Antonio though imo and I think San Antonio wins out for me. Portland, OR is also interesting and you're right that there would be a bit rivalry with the Seahawks, and having been to the area a few times and knowing some people there I don't think people from Portland support Seattle teams so there is untapped potential there.
The one city that was on your honourable mentions list that I thought would have been a shoe in for a team would have been Orlando. I could see that working (although I guess you are discounting it on the basis of proximity to Tampa and Jacksonville, neither big teams will it might take fans away from), but as well as the local population you could augment attendances with those visiting the theme parks there. I guess there would be state politics at work here though and there are already vested interests that would prevent certain cities getting teams.
In the end though I can't see this happening as the NFL is run by the owners and adding more teams that wouldn't necessarily grow the revenue enough for those already in the club to carry on making the same money as they do now it would not be feasible, just diluting their share.
Anyway, interesting video. One final thought is that if a team was added in London, what about Germany as well, they have a bit interest in American football as well, could you have 3, one in Barcelona (maybe an international division, not sure if would work, there's just not sure the demand I guess)?
I feel the NFL is a novelty in London and that's its appeal. A local sub-.500 team playing 8 or 9 games there will draw flies.
@@RokDocJekyl You are wrong. The majority of people who go to the games in London are fans of what we call American Football who watch games live every week throughout the season. They have a team they support and are like any US fan who doesn't live anywhere near the team they support players. Whether having a team located here would have enough pull that they get the numbers necessary to make it viable I don't think it's known, or whether those supporting a different team anyway would switch allegiance I don't know, but I don't think it's any different to say starting up a team in say Jacksonville or Tampa. I guess that would depend on many factors like how long you've supported a team (for non Americans, those who didn't grow up with a local team or one their father or mother supported), how much you love the game, the ability to afford to go to the games, and the competition with existing sports like the Premier League football (or even lower level teams), rugby, of anything else. I don't think it would work anywhere else in the UK outside of London, purely because of the numbers required. I'm also not sure where a team would pay because I doubt they'd be able to use an existing football stadium or Wembley every other week so there are logistical reasons as well, and costs involved in flying opposition, and even the team located here, backwards and forwards across the Atlantic, but I don't see the size of the potential fanbase as being the issue.
Stadium in London isn’t an issue at all, the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium was co-funded by the NFL and was purposely designed to host both sports (soccer and football). The stadium has two pitches, one for soccer and one for football that can be swapped over in less than an hour so there won’t be any issues around pitch wear and tear. Logistics are the only real issue but we’ve seen already that 3 games a season at least can be held over here. If you add a Munich team plus 2 other European teams then you have a whole new division which takes some of the strain off scheduling as it won’t require flying US teams out there all the time. You could have them stay in Europe for two weeks at a time and play 2 European cross divisional road games in that time frame. Broadcasting would be a bit tricky but not impossible by any stretch. Americans regularly wake up in their millions in the morning to watch premier league games so tuning into an earlier game a handful of times a season shouldn’t be too difficult. UK fans are already watching NFL in massive numbers despite the late kick off times here. I’m a 49ers fan since childhood so around 20 years (I’m 25 now) and MNF games kick off at 1am here but I’ll still watch them regardless of who’s playing because I love the league and sport so much and I’m just one of many millions who do the same thing week in week out. I think a London team is extremely plausible and will happen within 10 years. I think the jaguars will relocate at the very least
@@ggrimm2118 I don't think the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium was funded for more than one or two games a year, having more would be difficult to fit in because it is used for football regularly. I don't think the NFL owns half the stadium this example, it invested with the condition of it hosting a few games a year but he the home of a team as far as I know. I can't see how that could happen with the demands of a busy football season.
I also agree that there are UK fans, but to call this audience massive is a stretch and it is tiny compared to the US market. Many British fans will have the NFL from Sky Sports that most have to watch Premier League football and I doubt Sky plays a huge amount for the rights, not like in the US. All this goes to my argument that it would probably need to be subsidised some way, at least to start with. I can't see London having two teams being possible and I don't think there is another UK market but enough for an NFL franchise to work. I have my doubts about 3 in Germany having enough support. Sure these handful of events are well attended at the moment but they are novelties, one offs for many, except for the hardcore, which I will doubt is big enough. I'll be surprised if this happens but we'll see.
@@mattpotter8725 if the premier league and nfl came to an agreement that meant each party got higher exposure in the others main market then the PL would move Tottenham’s fixtures accordingly. Any deal would have to include Tottenham Hostpur getting windfall also which I believe is very do-able seeing as they own the stadium for starters, maybe the NFL team could be an extension of the soccer team in the same way European clubs have their own basketball teams.
I think the market is a lot bigger than people think. The fashion of the sport alone has exposed the market to unprecedented levels. I do believe there needs to be some sort of infrastructure to enable fans from all over the country to attend games though but that’s something for the government to look at.
Sky pay a lot of money for their rights and as such have the dedicated NFL channel. Channel 5 managed to snag the Monday night slot but even that was attained with help from Sky.
Overall, as someone who knows business and knows sports, this expansion/relocation is more than feasible, it’s inevitable. I don’t think the NFL do enough to promote themselves over here throughout the year yet, they seem a little wary and don’t want to throw too much at it but if they were to ramp up the marketing nationwide then the UK market would be an absolute game changer for them. They have a foothold here already but if the XFL starts to do pretty well then they might just beat NFL to the punch of having either a UK/Europe division OR a team based over here. The iron is getting very hot and the NFL need to strike and take advantage before it’s too late
I believe for the NFL to get to 40 teams, they'll go with any of St. Louis, San Diego, Oakland, Chicago (second team), San Antonio, Oklahoma City, Salt Lake City, Portland, Omaha, Norfolk, Grand Rapids, Memphis, Birmingham, Hartford, Hawaii, Orlando, Toronto, Mexico City and London.
Idk something’s just kinda funny about a Canadian being a pats fan.
How about a NFL team in Boise, Idaho. Boise has shown great support for their college football team
When the Raiders were picking out where to move (the most recent one mind you) San Antonio was actually the first choice Davis had heck he owns enough land in the area to put at stadium on but was blocked by Jerry Jones as he doesn’t want a third Texas team as the Texans take enough possible revenue from the Cowboys organization as is. London is something that NFL commissioner Roger Goddell wants and most believe that if it happens it’ll involve the Jags moving there rather than a NFL expansion. Finally on the topic of Canada the NFL was interested in putting a team there but Canada stopped them as they don’t want to kill the CFL
Honolulu, Louisville, Oklahoma City, St. Louis, Toronto, San Diego, Salt Lake City, Oakland
Might sound weird but I’d honestly love seeing a team in Alaska would be just as difficult as Hawaii but holy shit Alaska has perfect football weather rain snow cold games there would be amazing as hell
Putting a team in London is a logistical problem to play one game it can take months of preparation if teams in the Davison have to play their twice it would be a challenge
When it comes to, Austin and San Antonio, and the comment about being two close, remember we had LA with two teams, and before LA and SD wish that was 2 hours drive, so for a state know for guns, BBQ, and football, I don’t see why not, but just incase they should use the XFL as the expansion league, to show the NFL that fans can fill the stadium
100% agree with SLC! The football culture is much stronger there than a lot of people realize. Both UofU and BYU are regularly ranked teams that sell out home games, there's no reason a Utah NFL team couldn't, either. And altitude isn't a factor against it either, Denver is already higher up by 800 feet.
I can't say I'm big on Austin. I know that the Eagles, Ravens, and Commanders all play within 100 miles of each other, but Texas isn't as densely populated. I think a San Antonio team is close enough to Austin to draw plenty of fans from both cities.
As for Honolulu and London, they're just too far away. There's a reason teams get bye weeks after playing in London. Not to mention the insane logistics of a Honolulu-London game, because both teams would be bound to play each other at some point.
I think a lot of the honorable mentions would be better fit for a team, and I'd add to that list Omaha, Nebraska.
Don’t get me wrong. I’d love to make the NFL an international thing. But I am fairly confident that it wouldn’t work, not yet anyway. Adding more domestic teams? Absolutely that’ll do just fine. But international teams? I don’t think we are big enough outside of the US to do it. But NFL’s bonds with foreign politicians and having a lot of international games has gotten us possibly just a few years away from going international. Given travel time, player hesitation, bureaucracy and paper work, diplomacy, and the potential cost…I’m sure the NFL will be hesitant. I think it will be one of those things that struggles at first, I think it will cost the NFL money. I think for a year or two it will not turn a profit, it will actually be in the red. BUT, after a year or two or maybe even 3 or 4…I think it will catch on and be a mainstay.
Ultimately the NFL needs to see the long term gain and not the short term loss. The fact is, especially with the pure chaos that last season was, the NFL has come under more fire than usual in recent years. Even the government had to get involved a few times. Last season wasn’t boring by any stretch of the imagination, but there’s been nothing new. Last year’s draft class was largely a disappointment, outside of a few guys who are going be absolute studs for years to come. Chiefs won the Super Bowl. Pretty normal. There were some nice surprises in the Seahawks, Lions, and Jags. But two out of 8 divisions were hot garbage the whole year and, for the most part, remain that way. Two of the greatest most famous players are gone, one out for the season due to injury and one retired. The Broncos remain irrelevant and the overhyped Jets had their season ended in the most Jets way possible, 4 plays into the first drive of their first game. This franchise has been cursed since Joe Namath sold his soul for a Lombardi Trophy back in the 60s.
It feels like a boring few years are upcoming.
Here's mine, but if the AFC and NFC were renamed into Eastern Football Conference and Western Football Conference:
WFC Pacific:
Seattle
San Francisco
LA Rams
LA Chargers
Honolulu
WFC Southwest:
Arizona
Houston
Dallas
New Orleans
Oklahoma City
WFC Midwest:
Minnesota
Green Bay
Chicago
Detroit
Milwaukee
WFC Farmland:
Denver
Kansas City
Tennessee
St. Louis
Salt Lake City
EFC South:
Atlanta
Jacksonville
Miami
Tampa Bay
Orlando
EFC Mid-Atlantic:
Carolina
Washington
Baltimore
Philadelphia
Arlington, Virginia
EFC Rust Belt:
Indianapolis
Cleveland
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Canton
EFC Northeast:
Buffalo
NY Giants
NY Jets
New England
New Jersey
Winning means everything...put a team in a place like Albuquerque and if they win they will attract large crowds
Utah now has a NHL team
When will you make the 40 team mlb expansion video (Answer ASAP)
I'm not gonna make a 40 team MLB expansion video. I got other projects I want to work on.
I would love an NFL team in Alaska for the winter games but alas it'd be a logistical nightmare
When is MLS