How To Heal Golfer's Elbow - Starting Strength Radio Clips
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- Опубліковано 4 бер 2020
- Rip tells you how to fix and heal golfer's elbow.
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![Golfers Elbow [Causes Symptoms Treatment]](/img/n.gif)
4:40 starts the advice
I am a Physio and can confirm everything he says. Tendonitis needs training, not rest. In really bad cases you can start with isometric exercises up to 30 seconds in duration. Then go to eccentric training as soon as possible. This is the only proven way to change the tissue quality back to normal.
@@JediNiyte I think that is how I got my golfers elbow. I roll over and sleep on it and would wake up with it in minor pain for a while. I also drive A ALOT for work, and I prop the same elbow up in the window of the car... That used to cause minor pain after long drives too. Now it just hurts all of the time, except for a short period after workouts where its numbed out.
@@JediNiyte Thats great to hear man. I did a buttload of chins yesterday after my regular workout, hope it goes away quick!
Is this concept applicable for knee tendonitis as well?
@@MrRyuzaki1 yes, the basic program works the same way.
@@MatthiasWeinberger Thanks for your response, dude. I got some crazy quad tendonitis from running. It's getting better but it's annoying as hell. Especially considering the fucking government closed gyms again and I can't squat. Any idea how I can approach this? Right now the best way I can make it hurt like hell is either running hard or doing glute bridges, but I'm not sure about frequency.
Chin-up protocol helped me tremendously.
@sleep team hi, how effective is this ?
I can usually do 10-15 pull-ups etc
But now have stopped pull-ups altogether
@@nelsonnotmandela8725 I'm not sure what you are asking? I did a lot of low rep sets like Rip suggests and it helped. I also added this stretch to my routine which gave me relief. ua-cam.com/video/Cj9b3nI1EHU/v-deo.html
I had tricep tendinitis. Looked up some info and had a quick recovery doing light behind the head Dumbbell extensions for hight volume, focusing on the eccentric portion. Never got it again.
Thanks for the video. I´ve had golfers elbow for 3 months in my right arm, so the doctor told med to just stay at home for a while. 3 months later im still home, having the same pain, and starting to get the same problem in my left arm as well. Im absolutely trying this. Ty man!
Hello, did it work? I'm curious because I'm having a similar problem with doctors.
God I love this man. He talks so much sense and has saved me. Want to travel to America just to have one single training session with him. I am praying it will happen. ❤️
Only Jesus saves
Love him or hate him, he definitely knows his stuff! 👍
I agree for the most part, however, a short term rest phase is just the initial part of recovery. Once the pain subsides, you do your PT strengthening movements like wrist curls to strengthen the now weakened area. Neglect will eventually lead to a regression of the tendon pain.
Story time: I started lifting about four years ago hhh-when I was 41. I immediately got tendinitis in both knees from squatting (probably because I had had a desk job for about 12 years and my body was made out of matchsticks and butter), and after about half a years of trying shit out I noticed that the only leg exercises I could do without my knees hurting to bad was the deadlift and the squat when I bent over much more then I did before so that my knees never went past my toes. After deadlifting a squatting for a couple of months the pain and the tendinitis disappeared. My sister, who is a doctor 👻. said that my joints and tendons had probably gotten stronger to the point where they could now do the job I was asking of them hhh-when I first started training.
hhh
Ok buddy. I understand that the whole point of this post was to flex by letting us know that you have a doctor in the family. You could have just flat out said that, you know. Something like this - "Story time: We have a doctor in the family, my sister".
@@sidhu139 Is it a big deal to have a doctor in the family in India?
I've criticized Rip before, so it only fair I counteract it now in saying he's spot on here with the fact tendons won't heal with rest. It only cements the problem with poor tissue matrix.
I got golfer's elbow in 1999, doctor said ice and rest. 21 years later I still had it to the point it affected everything I did from how I slept, hold a cup, wash my hair, wipe my ass, get up from a chair, drive a car, etc.
Do not ice it, that's a bs idea that doesn't heal anything. Mileage can vary, obviously, but after 20+ years the best thing I've come across is static tensile pressure. Accidentally while doing passive hangs for shoulder rehab, I started noticing the GE was getting better. Legit better, not temporary relief.
As my program got deadlifts added in, the GE kept getting better. Calculated stress without elbow flexion is what unlocked the remodeling process of the tendon tissue.
Your tendon that's affected also is involved in forearm pronation. When I dumbell curl, I put a 5%-10% more weight on the pinky side of the dumbell to actively engage the supinators. I'll spare you the endless tactics, reading and ideas that went nowhere over two decades.
As Rip said, you're going to have to start mildly injuring those scar tissue fibers that have formed and give them a second chance, a correct opportunity to rebuild with healthy fibers that are of correct composition.
Were the static hangs with your hands supinated or pronated ? Ie chin-up position or pull-up position
@@lmc3307 Pronated. My flexibility isn't enough for a comfortable supine grip for chin up position
@@Resistculturaldecline okay I have a severe wrist injury from powerlifting which no PT has been able to diagnose from so I can’t grip anything supine so this is the answer I wanted thanks.
How often Deadhang
@@thermoplastischesaethylend1046 About every other day, 3 sets of 30 seconds.
I tried the chin up approach here with not much improvement, that said I was still doing other lifts which I'm thinking didn't help. However, I find doing a close grip chin-up helps get a chin in without pain. Also, not wrapping the thumb around the bar. Anyway, might be worth a shot for you if looking to keep up with chins and no other approach is working.
Dear Rippetoe,
I’ve been a follower since my early teens and I’m now in my thirties, and always took your advice as gospel.
That being said, after approximately three years of having followed your advice on this issue, I can safely say that it not only didn’t work for me, it actively injured me and set me back miles ahead, perhaps even crippling me to an extent.
In retrospect, why the hell would I think to overwork a painful movement on an injured tendon was a good idea? I don’t know. It wasn’t, and I regret the state of my elbow today.
That is all sir. You helped me get strong overall, but I sincerely feel I won’t recover from what I’ve done to myself listening to you here.
Have a good day.
Glad you replied after trying this method. It does seem very counter intuitive and I don't want to risk hurting myself even further. How are you doing 2 months later?
@@michaell2928 Pretty much the same. I actually came back to this after a year of struggling.
My elbow’s not the same, and sometimes it hurts without even working it out. I’m thinking physical therapy is in my future, but we’ll see.
I also did rips method of chins exactly as he instructed fir the length of time and number of reps. It did not get better. I am seeking help from a physio and doing tension band exercises and switching to high bar squats which I hate. But anything is better than getting chronic back pain like 90% of the aging population so not squatting is not an option. I am committed to working on it for the sake of my back. I hope don't give up friend.
Exactly mt experience. I wish I'd seen this video years ago 😅
Sir, please suggest something for triceps tendinopathy as well
I had this same issue. I just figured that one day my tendon in that area would eventually stop hurting. From August 14, 2019, the day I started SS Houston, I had a tendon in my inner elbow on the left side hurt like hell. I thought it was because I am right handed and had never used that part of the left side of my body before.....the inflammation was so bad that it even hurt to brush my teeth and then cup my hands to rinse my mouth. But the funny thing was that after my first set of squats, it would be manageable and I got through them. My elbow tendonitis comes back only if I am moving up in weight.....every 15 or 20 lbs or so in my squat. It literally took 5 months before my elbow stopped hurting. The same thing went on with my knees, the left side of my lower back, and my right I.T. Band on the side of my leg between Hammy and Quad.....those both still tweak, but I get through it. My knees are no longer inflamed and I figure my back and I.T. band will do the same in time.....One thing I do is make sure I take my Vitamin D3 (doctor's orders and 50,000 iu once a week with 10,000 iu other days) and my Tumeric (double dose each day) which both help with my muscle function and inflammation.
I wouldn't take vitamin D or tumeric
When you say 5 workouts of the chins protocol what’s the interval between workouts ? Every other day ? Or ?
i wish you were my dad, thanks a lot, you are a wise man
Starting chin up protocol today!
where did you find it?
@@dennislaudenslager6380 it's been so long, i don't recall. It didn't help me tho. What did was the "prayer stretch". Put your hands flat against each other (like you're praying) 🙏. Then move your arms to the side, tilting at angles... Move your arms however you need to in order to feel a good stretch in your affected elbow.
When i first started it was very painful, but hit my area of concern. Within a week of regular stretches, i had no further pain unless i was exercising it. That was almost a year ago. Today, I'm doing 5 sets of 6+ chinups without pain every other day
Very interesting information. Even if chins caused the tendinitis in the first place?
I have the same problem :(. Did you try it and have you been successful?
Wow! I'm literally lost for words. I've developed both tennis and golfers elbow in my right arm and in the morning it's really painful to straighten the arm. I've stopped strength training and was going to book a physio appointment, but on this basis, I'll cancel the physio and resume the training and my chin ups
What's the recommended frequency of the chins? I tried multiple frequencies and still have golfers elbow. I tried 5 days in a row, every other day and twice a week. Still no relief.
Will heavy-ass underhand lat pulldowns work for this if one can't do a pullup or enough?
I know some gyms have the assistance pull up machine where you rest your knees or you can use a band, but in absence of that, will the effect be the same/similar?
You should progress your underhand lat pulls to the point of where you’re able to do pull ups instead
I had tennis and golfers elbow in both elbows at the same time, rest done nothing, I done one workout of chin ups and the pain went away, unbelievable.
So literally just doing chin ups?
But how? I m 30 female. I ve both tenns golfers elbows my both elbows like you. For 7 years. I WAS comp eng. I never had rhese type of exersise. I cannot imagine doing chin ups 😅 i even cannot lift 1 kg ... i started pilates but i cannot imagine doing chin ips with this horrible PAIN
@@ayseguldemir3328 …. Look up ‘gua sha’ and golfer’s elbow. Instead of buying one those tools they use, just use any type of card such as a library card, a credit card or whatever. I tried it two days and my left arm golfer’s elbow felt better. The golfer’s sensation is back today but not as bad as previously. I’ll redo the gua sha thing again today. I think I might also have to start doing reverse wrist curls as well as trying Rips chin up protocol.
@@strawberryyogurt0 thnk you for your advice i will definitely try it this. Please feedback again if it helps you. + I use for my tennis elbow theraband flexbar tylor twist, and it %80 healed but %20 stay there. But flexbar does not work for my golfers elbows i think because i have hypermobility syndrome. Maybe can help you. Esselam.
@@ayseguldemir3328 … Did the ‘gua sha’ help you at all? Because every time
I do it (just scrapping the area with my credit card or library card) it definitely helps decrease the golfer’s elbow pain. I actually completely stopped doing all upper body exercise because I have some shoulder issues. I basically haven’t touched a barbell in a month. I might have to seriously consider doing Rip’s golfer’s elbow protocol after I figure out my shoulder issues.
Is it okay to use neutral grip chins? Or do they need to be supinated (palms facing myself) chins for this to work?
My rotator cuff was hurting. I stopped benching. It didn’t go away. I started light db bench. It instantly felt better. So weird...
Pull ups aggravate my medial epicondyle way more! Should I do this routine using pull ups instead? I punched a lot (pronation), my pain also comes usually when I'm doing anything with a pronated grip. And yes an orthopaedic diagnosedd my issue as medial epicondylitis (tendinosis, over a year)
Did you find any cure bro? Pls, im in the same boat:(
Try chin's instead of pulls, with assistance, or even barbell curling.
Also, look into Ben Patrick's philosophy - train forearm/wrist extensors.
Supplementing boron helped my elbow tendonitis.
Just take borax instead
@@blickluke I am
Can confirm. Get tennis elbow flare ups from work, just keep on going to work, swinging that sledgehammer crushing fucking stakes. While it's pure agony most times, it eventually subsides and pain goes away.
Man... This info came down from heaven for me... I didn't know what to do with my elbow pain after my squats. I'm gonna give it a try.
If you can't get it fixed, highbar and front squats are options. RIP won't approve though
@thund3rb1rd78 good tip, thanks
How did it go?
@@TheStefBy it went well... But after 3-4 months came back, but it's not that it doesn't work, it's me. I have really stiff shoulder mobility. So I can't place my arms as far back as needed and the pressure is transferred to my elbow joints, specially the left one.
I tried to work on my shoulder mobility, but I can go as much as my anatomy allows me.
If you're having elbow pain, I would recommend you to try it 100%.
Guitar GG how did you do. When i put a load i feel knives in my arm:)) how do you succed to finish this “workout”
My body : that hurts!!!
My mind : deal with it!!
Should you do pullups instead of Chinups in case of tennis elbow?
Ik it's a late response, but he advised chin ups for tennis elbow too
Do you do this chin up workout once or twice a week?
He has an article about it in which he says twice
Will this also work with a triceps tendonitis?
It's for all forms of tendon shit.
Sadly, I had the same problem… had to work it slowly, and massage and deal with it. Rest did not deal with it.
What grip to repair golfers elbow?
Neutral grip is generally the best with golfer's elbow. I can do proper hammer curls with heavy loads. The idea is to tweak your workouts to keep the pain to about a 3 while increasing the blood flow, which in the long run will repair the scarred tissue. Apply progressive overload as it gets better, but start light. Also, I recommend doing about 10 minutes of cardio before resistance training to favor blood circulation.
Doing chinups in extreme pain is suicidal and will only damage your tendons even more. Rest won't help much, but not listening to your body is not wise advice either. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle.
I tried finding the protocol on the site to fight through golfers elbow. I can t seem to find the videos....anyone have luck with this?
If you can do 15 chins max then do 5’s. If you can do 10 chins then do 3’s. 20 sets, 1 minute rest between sets
Rip, would it be the same protocol if you already ruptured that tendon? I ruptured mine in my right elbow while doing chins. I've switched back to high-bar squats because of the pain in my left elbow. I'd like to go back to low bar squats but want to keep my left arm healthy.
You ripped your flexor tendon?
Is it okay to continue to ice the elbow during the weeks that you are doing the chinup protocol? Or is that counter productive to the inflammation we're trying to generate? Thank you
I have tennis elbow for about 3 months now. I believed its from doing pull ups chin ups. I completely stoped doing chin ups pull ups for about 2 months, but the elbow doesn't heal. Should I start doind pull ups chin ups again?
Did you get rid of it?
I got golfer's elbow via arm wrestling and I have been working the hell out of my tendon via chin ups and barbell curls. The first workout was excruciating, but the 2nd workout just two days later was a lot less painful even though I was doing even more chin ups, so it appears to be working. In 3 days, I will do another 20 sets of chinups and if I don't report back, assume it worked.
Hi!
I will ask anyway, it worked?
@@brunosiani7085 If your golfer's elbow is new (fewer than four weeks old), just rest the arms and it will go away. If its chronic (if it has been bothering you for more than four weeks), the chinups will fix it if you do your chinups with proper form. I decided to rest my golfer's elbow because it was new and now I can do everything without pain.
@@brunosiani7085 I should mention that the cause of golfer's elbow for me was weak forearm strength, so once your golfer's elbow is healed, you need to devote time to training your forearms and grip strength specifically to prevent it from coming back.
Can you give us an update???
@@alefbrito2878 It has stopped being an issue after two weeks of rest because it was not long-term tennis elbow, it was brand new. I just did leg days this whole time and I won't do chin-ups or curls until I get my forearms and grip strength stronger so that this never happens again.
Would taking advil/ibuprofen cause this not to work because it's an anti-inflammatory?
Acute inflammation is good chronic is bad, if it’s too bad take some ibuprofen to get blood flow to it, one day on two off so it gets the inflammation it needs but also blood flow
My golfers elbow started when I did a lot of chin ups on rings.
And it's getting worst when I do them.
I don't think the best solution is more chin ups.
Try a pull up bar, kid
Use a bar in lieu of rings
Are you gripping the rings wrong?? You can get golfers elbow for putting too much force through the ends of your fingers. I once had this
Yes, definitely get a bar and grip it with PROPER FORM. Don't curl your wrists like an old timey Boxer during your set, that's how I got golfers elbow.
Starting Strength website? Cause I can't find it.
@@GARINGER yep looked here couldn't find anything
Yeah I remember listening to this podcast. He says "the info is right there on the website". I actually pulled over to the side of the highway and spent 45 minutes trying to find the post, or info, or anything. All I could find was people asking, in the forums, for where the post is.
@@ShaneOzouf i just foung this: startingstrength.com/video/podcast/ask-rip-9
@@ShaneOzouf I did find the info on the chin up protocol in a forum startingstrength.com/resources/forum/mark-rippetoe-q-and-a/67234-splitting-volume-chins-protocol-elbow-tendinitis-2-days.html after a lot of searching
I've been suffering with elbow pains for last couple years, keeping me from progressing with lifts and pull-ups/chinups. I've done physical therapy and followed the typical medical advice about resting/ice/warmth/theraband and only had brief periods of relief. I'm so eager to try this chinup protocol and move forward instead of backward!
Bad idea.
Tried it.
Half fixed the problem.
Created a new problem in the right.
What if you have golfers elbow not from squats but from chinups ?
Then you keep pushing
Jeff Riggins been pushing for a long time and it doesn't work
No idea, whatever bothers my tennis elbow I just keep it going and it works, no idea brother.
I would suggest strengthening your forearms. Athlean X has videos on how to strengthen your forearms. Also work on your abs more for stability & form.
How can you recover from tennis elbow?
Buy a theraband flexbar works the best
Start with isometric contractions when the pain is really bad. Go to eccentric contractions as soon as possible. A slight pain increase after exercise is OK.
I'll have to rewatch Rip's old videos on it, but I didn't get much out of them as far as helping with the pain. After watching an Alan Thrall video on how he dealt with it, I was able to get it mostly under control.
For me, what's helped was to widen my grip a bit, but also able to keep a tight upper back, stop using a thumbless grip and allow some slight bend in the wrist, make sure to flex the lats so as to "break the bar" as they call it (which helps put things into tightness and alignment), and to make sure I'm not using my 3rd and 4th fingers (ring and pinky) much with the grip. It's not a 100% fix but has really made a difference for me.
I'm not so sure "working through the pain" is a great idea, as Rip suggests, because the pain is your body saying "stop doing that". I image what really happens is that the lower intensity, higher volume (total for the workout) chin-ups sends more blood to the area, and more blood usually means faster/better healing. Inflammation is certainly natural for an acute injury, but it's not meant to linger, so I'm at a loss there and would default to Austin Baraki, et al.
Thanks for your elaborate comment on how you fixed your pain. I'll give what you specified, a go. It's interesting to see the bit about not using your ring and pinky finger to fix the pain cos I saw a video of Athlean X and he advised exactly that.
@@albussd I have an update you may find helpful. I started wearing the Bauerfeind Sports Elbow Strap (linked) and target the medial tendinous connection (where golfer's elbow hurts) and I can actually feel when I'm (unintentionally) engaging the grip muscles, which is largely what makes the condition worse. It's a nice feedback.
www.bauerfeind.com/b2c/Sports-Products/Sports-Elbow-Strap/p/YPBF_SPE_SELBOSTR
when he says do "chins" does he mean "chin ups"? And how many should I do? How much rest?
How many chin ups can you do in one go? Is it 15? Or 10? Do a 1/3 of that. So if you can do 10 chins then instead do 3 at a time, 20 sets, 1 minute apart. Do this twice a week
thank you!@@sneakybloke
I had a bad case of golfers elbow from doing too much volume on chinups
Weighted chinups especially
Ditto. I tried Pavel's high frequency pullup program at 225 lbs bodyweight and ended up with a nasty case.
I have it in both elbows and have had it for years I haven't done 20 sets of 2-3 but I always do 6 or 7 sets of 5 or so and it never goes away ... I'm 250 lbs
My doctor must suck. He doesn't even ask me if I'm squatting.
@@guitar19821 most doctors are just glorified drug dealers
It’s not just about grip , Watch squat universities video on this subject it’s far more informative and effective, but I still love Rip
Have had media epicondylitis for over 20yrs. My best advice is holding static loads, like passive hanging.
Also, for 19yrs I addressed is as a flexor or grip flexion problem. Mine is not much of that, mine is predominantly a pronator problem. Hold onto bars and whatever in a manner that you're mildly actively trying to supinate, in an effort to unfire the pronators.
That's helps reduce the inflammation, but passive hanging has helped with tissue remodeling of the decades old defective tissue matrix.
Cant it be operated on?
Yes but the point is to avoid an operation. That should be the last resort.
grand poo-bah you know if it’s effective tho?
I fucked up my elbo doing a chest press ( going way to heavy than I can lift) and I god tennis elbow, I thought it would heal and it didnt, I just started moving my hand in a way I can feel my tendon stretching, and I just did that over and over and it healed.
Rip says the chinups will make the elbows hurt like hell... I have golfers elbow from squat and bench press (probably actually caused by the squat) and when I do the chins as suggested it doesn't actually make the elbow hurt, so I'm not sure if its working.
Same here
I have it too... But are you doing 20 sets of 3 reps to fix this o just the regular 5x5?
It is the hard grip that makes it not hurt, because the flexors are contracting properly. Keep doing em. You must do many sets of few reps, because the longer the sets are the more your grip will start to fail and that will cause overload on the joint (ring finger joint to be exact) and this causes pain. 20 sets x 2-3 reps will make it stronger and heal
@@kl0ppih how many times a week would you do it?
Edit: Also, you do it as your workout routine or in your off days?
@@juegoperfecto it is not very taxing so do it any day you see fit, 2-3 times a week
Has anyone tried Rip’s chin up technique to get rid of tendinitis? I have had tennis elbow for 6 months now and am going to try it. Just curious if anyone has had success with it.
If it actually works as well as Rip says, he should get a shit ton of credit. The medical field still basically has no fucking clue what to do for elbow tendinitis other than to cut you open.
Repetition Repetition Repetition Repetition it freakin hurts but it works. I’ve done it twice already. Usually heals in less than two weeks for me
@@jsalzarwinning1 at first sorry for my english.... Can you tell me how many times per week you did that protocol? Once or twice or more? Which was the best width in chin ups - width between small fingers in inches? Or should palms contact together? Thanks if you answer
did he say do chin ups?
Making it hurt like hell... Is that really smart? Should this applied to all forms of tendonitis? I don't see how "hurting like hell" is the best diagnostic criteria that the protocol is working...
Update: I basically healed mine through deloading chinups. I started weighed chinups at low volume (3 sets of 8, +5 lbs), and am now at +75 lbs for 3x5 and close to zero pain.
@@steeping thx
wait I got golfers elbow from doing chinups. and this guy is telling me to... do more chinups? wtf rip
Make sure you're REALLY wrapping your fingers/hands around the bar and not hanging on by the fingers. The poor grip is what really tears those tendons/ligaments/muscles up.
Also look into getting a Roleo forearm roller, it works wonders. Couple that with some good golfer's elbow rehab exercises and the pain will get to be manageable. Mine was so bad, I could even do bent over rows with the bar and pulling plates off the bar was unbearable. I still have pain, but its at like 3/10 vs 10/10.
Isn't tendinits from too much work or stress on the joint also a thing?
So rest can be useful.
I mean it's called golfer's or tennis' elbow for a reason, I don't think proper technique is the main issue here.
This is about sub maximal volume that isn't stressing the muscle or tendon, but promoting blood flow. Tendons get so little blood flow while resting, that healing while resting takes ages. What rip said was correct. I tried resting for months with tendonitis and never got better, once I started doing light volume work to get blood flow going, it healed up pretty quick.
hi
First! Yippie
Bullshit complete Bullshit I did hundreds of chins perhaps several thousand, I got great at them and still have golfers elbow. The elbows still ache no matter the grip no matter the hand spacing no matter if my elbows are down no matter how I squeeze my shoulder blades together. Once you get "golfers elbow" from squatting it never heals up.
Don't wear a helmet? You're gonna get hurt in a wreck anyway. So to Rip hurt and dead are the same. Why do people ask this guy anything other than training questions?
Didn’t work. Waste of time
terrible advice