2:12 "I got up [and] strapped on my [plate carrier and] just wore it around for an hour and a half." I felt immediately accepted and that I was no longer alone. Right in the feels.
@@Blap552 I run a 3.5 pound III+ in the front and .5 pound IIIA rigid plate in the back of my carrier. Decent enough protection while not being much of anything weight-wise.
South African armed responder here. I wear armor 12 hours a day every day. Have been involved in and seen many many shooting incidents of all kinds. From homemade pipe gun assasinations to heavy hunting rifle self defense shootings to full on small scale war like cash in transit shootouts and everything in between. The comfort factor of carrying less weight for similar or arguably better performance is a no brainer. Trust me a steel based vest will spend most of its time in the car boot. Mobility is also way better with lighter Armour especially when scaling fences etc regularly. Steel also seems to heat up and retain body heat more. A factor in hot climates. Amd once toluose steel ates get some sun on them forget about it. I have also seen a colleague drowned because of steel plates. Furthermore the injuries sustained from bullet fragmentation off of steel is simply catastrophic. And that is with all types of liners. It simply does not work reliably. Remember most tests have bullets hitting at close to 90°. Omqgine a bullet hitting at an angle, fragmenting and then going on throug a limb. Mincemeat is putting bit mildly.I would rather get shot through and through instead in some instances. Best mix for my purposes is ceramic over hdpe with kevlar behind that.
this is most probably the best Input from a user of body armor that I've read since I keep revolving my mind around wether to buy PE/UHMPWE or AR500 steel plates. there's a Swedish company that sells spall covers, but yeah. your Input is invaluable. thank you, good luck and stay safe!
While I can't speak to the adhesives used in it's assembly, the polyethylene core of that body armor won't degrade unless you're storing it in direct sunlight. HDPE is a very stable and chemically resistant plastic.
But it will seriously degrade from taking rounds of any kind or size ! I am inconcerned about the sun light at all and veryu concerned about not getting shot, even once. There is not yet an actaul replacement for steel and yes it is very heavy. Oh well ! As I see it it all depends on the threats you may encounter if known ?
@@ivannamendez8298 What are you talking about Republic Clone Troopers were the best trained soldiers in the galaxy. Bred from the earliest stages of infancy to fulfil their assigned roles within the Grand Army of the Republic. Each clone had at least 10 years of training and simulation training (thanks to the accelerated aging). The ones that have a reputation for bad aim are the imperial stormtroppers, who are recruits, not clones. Although this reputation is unwarranted because they literally explain in the movie that they were missing on purpose so Han and the others could escape to Hoth and they could follow them there and find the Rebel base. So in reality they don't have bad aim either. EDIT: Sorry I'm a Star Wars nerd and I got triggered lol.
I want Mandalorian Commando Armor or Old Republic armor in Lw Polyethylene layering a iiia body glove.....maybe even some lightweight alloy centered over hdpe on the spots likeliest to get hit. I say that yet all my shit is lw currently for mobility. would be cool to see. at 170lbs the average 30% of bodyweight kit "limit" doesn't leave but 15-18lbs for armor when adding general musette/pack, gunbelt and a rifle with support items :(. Lifting and lifting but cant seem to gain weight back.
The buoyancy discussion reminded me of my Fire Acadamey training course where we were supposed to, while wearing a full set of turnouts and a steel training tank/rig, "use our helmet to scoop an air bubble under the surface and place it between your legs and sit on it for flotation...". It worked less well then I imagined when they gave us the instructions LOL. Great content as always mate. Love the channel. Best to you and yours.
so you arent old enough to remember the pants sailors wore on the WW1 and 2 ships? the bell bottoms were huge and supposed to hold air if you fell overboard.
After watching so many vso vids trying to determine what plate and carrier setup I found myself confused as to what I should go for. While unlikely as hell there are scenarios where 1 setup can be detrimental but that same setup might be perfect for this other scenario. So I've decided to suck it up and invest money into no less than a couple. 1 down, working on the other and am thankful for this channel and the useful info it brings.
I like the comparison. I chose steel over ceramic or poly for the price and my use. I only wear my plate carrier once in a while and not for more than a few hours. So for me I don't find the extra weight too much. For long term wear or specific mission use, I can see the extra investment in poly plates too save on weight. I think for most people who don't wear plate carriers for work or who aren't military, it's all preference at that point.
@@SkintSNIPER262 Ahh... so you didn't watch the video or any video on anybody testing these plates. Maybe watch them and you will be surprised at who was eating shrapnel and who wasn't.
I have purchased the steel caliber plates. I noticed the curves are quite aggressive so I wonder how well it would work against spalling if you flipped the plates. Use the curve to deflect the spalling more. That would make for an interesting video I think. Great customer service also.
Most steel plates have coating on them to reduce spalling so flipping it around would have the steel in the front rather than the coating so spalling would be a huge issue if you choose to do that.
@@bensmith9164 getting shot in the shoulder, exposed stomach or any other unprotected area will also get you killed. the coverage area of the vast majority of these plates is hilarious. But touching on Steel vs others, steel is the only single layer product tested. If you want to prevent fragments, cover the steel in Kevlar or similar materials. It's not often you see ceramic armors tested with multi hits in the same area.
The other bad part about ceramics. Is have to have an X-ray to make sure they're not broken because they can be compromised. You don't want to wear a plate that's compromised.
UA-camr: don’t buy steel, it’s too heavy and it’s not level 4 Me: mkay makes sense Same youtuber: don’t buy ceramic it can’t stop more than a few rounds Me: oh okay yeah that makes sense Me: So wait which one do I get?
Light And Strong whichever it is. Keep asking guys,you definitely don't want to be Weighed down too much. Then Train And Work out,Cardio too. Confident and Lightfooted!!🫡🇺🇸
Expiration dates on armor are there more for insurance purposes than anything else. Secondly, company's can make alot more money by selling more products if they put an expiration date on it.
Hey VSO, Actually you only need one plate on the front chest. If you get shot in the back the front plate will still stop the round as it passes through. LOL Great info for the plate buyer.
Body armor needs to comform to your contors. Center mass protection is great but they side profile wounds are deadlier. A form of scalemail ballistic armour protection should offer protection while keeping maneuverability.
I think both'll last a long time, unless chemicals that-I dunno degrade overtime were used with the "plastic" body armor, maybe it'll react differently in humid areas, dry areas etc? Idk.
the price of Freedom is constant alertness and willingness to fight back. our patriots defending Ukraine and fighting for Freedom. many people joining territorial defense forces without any basic protective gear and body armor ... is anyone willing to help with SAPI plates level 4 to protect people's lives???
Why don't they put a lip directing outwards on the top of the steel plate? Even a large weld bead on the edges? Something to direct blast at least from your neck if the coating fails.. How about you test it
I agree I think the design of the plate as is, very solid but IMO a good switch these armor company’s should be doing is putting at least a quarter inch increased strength barrier on the outside edge. If you take a shot to the edge of the plate.. without reinforcement.. hope you bought a decent ifak.
I'll be honest. AR500 (for what it is, using the proper coatings) was the cheapest lvl3 on the market (during their sales) 100% on the gigachad levels of fitness you need to perform in long duration applications with steel.
The UHMWPE model doesn't have a strike face per say. All of its layers of UHMWPE that when pressed together and autoclaved, essentially become it's "strike face/core/fragmentation containment. Bullet enters plastic, melts the plastic, then it rehardens and catches the bullet. Jacket fragments and other material that shed from the bullet get contained in the many layers. A pure UHWMPE I would say is very robust. Falling on it, taking non ballistic threat strikes to it, will be fine. It's biggest determinant is heat. They supposedly don't like prolonged heat, and a lot of internet myth seems to imply if you leave it in your car trunk for quite some time, will cause the layers to delaminate. Likely a bit of truth to that, but a time here or there isn't going to kill a UHWMPE plate. I think the biggest downside to pure UHMWPE plates is their inability to stop M855. They have the reverse problem of steel armor. PE is very good at stopping lead core speed such as M193, but hardened materials even at slower speeds present a problem. Steel on the other hand, can stop M855 and even M855A1 (under 3000 fps so SBR), but it has trouble with true spec M193 (typically over 3000 fps). Hybrid (ceramic/pe) seem to offer a good compromise to being able to stop a wide threat profile, and in some cases, an NIJ Level IV Certified plate can be as cheap as the steel offering. Most of those are single curve however at that price point. They can still take a good beating (most good NIJ 06 will have a foam strike face protector, as well as a ring on the outer perimeter of the plate edge), but some care should be applied.
thats a great post. if we could just have the best and the lightest and the cheapest combined. i want to know what, added behind, will help UHMWPE stop the APs.
Dumb question can you fit the poly in front of the steel plate and wear it as double protection? I understand it would weigh more but wouldn't it help with the deformity of the poly plate after being shot several times
I bought old Italian surplus poly plates and shot a 556 55grain a 308 150 grain and 45-70 460 grain at 1700fps all in a triangle about 2 or 3 inches apart and stopped all three
Does anyone make a poly plate with a steel core? If the poly were sealed on the edges, it would hold up longer than a coating, but I've not seen it yet.
For Plates I went with Midwest Armor and Officer Survival Solutions, good high quality plates. Carriers I went Velocity Systems as well as Midwest Armor, I also recently got one from First Spear.
Im working on some armor designs trying to find the hardest and strongest workable materials and combinations of materials i can. So far im thinkin graphene. Only thing known of with more hardness in the known universe is the crystaline crust of a dead stars core. Its practically godlike potential for armor. Im thinking aluminum oxide or aluminum oxynitride over a graphene backwr would be a good lighteight option. It doesnt exist yet but I'd like it too. A full suit of that inspired by both samurai armor systems and german gothic armor systems of old. Over an exoskeleton to help mitigate the felt weight of cours either powered, actuated, or some combination of both.
Regarding warranty it's not just the steel they are covering, the anti-spall and outer coating that holds it all together are part of the equation. Depending on what conditions it is exposed to some things can accelerate the natural breakdown of polymers or the other chemicals that make up the non-steel components of both plates. UV light is known to be a problem for polymers but military testing of body armor includes both extreme temperature testing and chemical immersion testing including (but not limited to) gasoline, motor oil, salt water with an extremely high salt content, and weapon lubricant. The chemical testing may include extended soaks measured in hours or days. I have no doubt that Caliber is only putting 5 years so that if someone's plates accidentally spent months soaking in something in someone's basement they might be able to get out of dealing with an issue they didn't anticipate. In such a case with the steel once the outer layers are gone and the steel is exposed rust is also now a potential issue.
I was going to buy a set of Steel plates but I don't feel like humping around an additional 26 lb. Add on all the gear you would normally have. Whatever vest and loadout, that's going to be around 30 to 40 lbs, then your ruck another 40 lbs. You're over 100 lbs real quick real easy. I didn't even add in your weapon or sidearm. I've looked into modifications to an M81 flack jacket (7 to 10 lbs) they are level 3A rated, with some modifications you could bump it up to 3+ or 3 depending on the materials used. It would also be alot more cost effective.
How can they afford to sell the steal plate for $130? I just Googled the cost of 550 steel and it's going for $744.50/ton which works out to $0.37/pound so all said, I'm betting the coating probably costs more than the steel plate itself and that's even factoring in the cost of cutting and forming the plate.
so essentially 3$ for just the steel for a single plate, and then automation to form curves, spall layer, and logo. They probably make more money off a single plate than you think...
I'd be interested in seeing how the coating on my shellback ar1000 plate does, but I'm not willing to test that yet. But I keep gaurddog spall covers on my plates. Not to mention they're also only 6lbs a plate.
I didnt go with steel because of the price point... I went with steel because my kit is for SHTF and I'd rather have something with longevity over light weight... ceramics and shit like that are useless after a few rounds hitting it while steel can keep going... I dont ever plan on getting shot but if I somehow take 1 round then I want to be able to have a plate that wont need to be replaced
There is a reason we use AR 500 steel for targets. Hoever, I don't need to be a walking tank . Let me survive a round or two, move to cover. In theatre, sure. Steel. Anywhere else,... PE
In 20 years the steel plate will still stop bullets. But in 20 years I would NOT trust the anti-spall coating on the steel plate. Without spall protection, the steel would only be marginally better that the synthetic plate.
There's a reason why militaries don't use steel for personal body armor, granted its intent is for daily wear for many hours but its more than just weight.
No its absolutely weight. A soldier is already carrying quite a bit of weight and it is unnecessary to have a heavier plate when you can carry a lighter one with a higher expense.
@@dthompsont3796 I'll just answer for you, no one sells lvl 4 steel armor plates. You need AR 600+ plates to defeat some armor piercing rounds, problem is AR 600+ is very prone to cracking because it is so hard it is very brittle; so putting even one curve in it can cause it to break, and a flat plate might survive one shot before breaking.
I hate the misuse of the word spalling too, but I blame the body armor companies for starting the misuse of the word. Armor can spall, but bullets FRAGMENT. I also hate the misuse of the word smelting. It does not mean melting or casting metal. It means extracting metal from it's ore.
I have both types and would say the AR 500 has longevity the polymer does not, or anythting other than steel. Yes they are heavy but you can train for the weight as it helps off set the weight tremendously Remember once the poly takes a few rounds it is toast or worse and the entire purpose is to avoid getting shot for any reason. Therefore it would have to be replaced if you are not seriously wounded. So all of that defeats the orginal purpose. I use an early military intercetor carrier/vest because it has all the hook ups for gear and with no plates is level II protection. That woll stop all pistol rounds but how do we know there will only be postil rounds coming at you ? Well we simply have to use the best judgement we can muster up for every potentiality . It does not get any better than that. I prefer the steel
It all comes down to cost for me. I work in a field where I have to provide my own armor that I wear at work everyday. And if I, gods help me, take a round in my armor...I dont have to replace anything in my carrier. My steel plate isn't going to be compromised. But if I was wearing a composite armor, I would have to buy a new plate. And that's what does it for me.
I think if a man takes a rifle round center of mass and walks away, he's entitled to treat himself to a pour of good whiskey, a pair of dry shorts and a new ballistic plate!🤣
@Think Harder Well, I have a deductible that I would pay for my insurance but I do have company provided insurance. Level IV ceramics do offer protection against more dangerous threats but the likelihood of those threats ever presenting themselves in my field are slim to none. As for replacing the plate, that's not always possible. If I'm on a 9 month contract overseas, and God forbid my carrier takes a round in the first month, I'm not getting resupplied any time soon. If I'm working stateside, I'm even less likely to ever come across a threat that would defeat a level III plate. Though I will say that since I posted this, my company provided my entire with Shellback 4S17 plates and a set of replacements which I have in my current carrier.
@Think Harder Well I spend most of time sitting down xD Im not going out on foot patrols anymore. Ceramics are multi-hit rated true. But every hit compromises the integrity of the armor and NIJ ratings have the hits spaced evenly across the plate. As far as I know, fhe NIJ doesn't actually rate for multiple hits in the same spot.
@Think Harder Yea, ceramic is perfectly good and all. But guys in the military have ready access to resupply. No one is going on patrol with a plate that's taken a hit, unless shit has gone apocalypticly wrong.
You should probably search more than one manufacturer before putting info like this out. Most places PE isn't so much more than steel in some cases about the same. Ace Link is great and only a little more than steel.
Every single video I have seen with plate carriers and how they handle spall is a slick carrier. How may people walk around in a slick carrier? I have mag pouches on mine and any rounds would have to go through them..and ruin them in the process..but how would that effect the spall? You want to do a real test shot a full kit and not just a carrier with plates.
I "use" a 4 layer panel of kevlar over my build-up coated CATI steel armor, do you think that is sufficient for projectile fragmentation? I say "use" because I just wear it and luckily haven't found a need for it. . . . . yet..
It blows my mind that steel is much much cheaper than a glorified dinner plate and a plastic dinner plate you give to small children so when they push it off their high chair it doesn’t break. All because the material is lighter and more convenient for the user. It’s annoying.
@@thinkharder9332 well no, they have level 3+ which does the same thing as Level 4 ceramic. And I’ve seen level 4 plates fail after 2-3 hits in the same general area from green tip 5.56. I’ve watched belt fed weapons unload on steal plates without failing. And if you’re so confident in Ceramic protection go drop your plates down a flight of steps or onto your driveway 1-2 times….
@@thinkharder9332 thats bullshit. Level 3 steel was designed specifically to stop rifle calibers including green tip. You didn’t see any 5.56 caliber going through level 3 plates out of any barrel at any range. 3+ was introduced to stop common AP rounds. Though sure it won’t stop a ridiculous caliber like 30-06 AP but that’s an extremely rare round to find yourself against. You can’t justify paying double the price for a product that will turn to dust after a couple of hits and be worthless in the long run. If you’re in a situation where you can’t replace your plate and the fights not over, you’re screwed. I also didn’t say right on top of each other shot placement. I said I saw someone shoot green tip at a level 4 ceramic plate. First round stopped. 2nd round was shot in the same section of the plate and it failed. You can shoot steel all day with green tip it won’t go through.
Im literally here cause im setting up my plate carrier. I know that no matter what brand i go with im going to get the Spall coat, but looking for differing opinions on things. Just like food, tthis is no different. Everyone has their own opinions on things.
@@LanceZ99 That's false though. A good ceramic plate (silicon carbide based, usually, there is more to it) can take 9-10 shots of M885A1 before anything comes through. Not all ceramics are the same, aluminum oxide based plates are way more brittle. The whole point of a plate armor is giving you enough time to take a shot or two and get out. If you got shot 9 times on the plate, you probably received several more impacts elsewhere on the body and you're already bleeding on the ground. The only advantage of steel on a real life-death scenario is that the guy that shot you might get to loot your plates from your corpse afterwards.
Why are you calling it plastic? Is it different than ceramic? also, how would plastic (ceramic) respond to hit just after being submerged in water? Would being wet reduce it's effectiveness?
Spatter is a spray of liquid deflecting off a surface. Spalling is fragmentation or the breaking into smaller piece from a larger piece. You spall needs are so fucking dumb. Let me guess, you cry when someone says clip instead of magazine?
Velocity Systems has great XL carriers with XL Cummerbunds, Midwest Armor is great too, they have lots of big guys sizes and they both have great customer service. I would hit them up and see what you like.
We use to wear armor with something like a parachute rip cord on the upper chest. One pull, and the armor just melts off your body...Very useful for unexpected deep water submersion, being on fire from an IED, or treating a casuality...Most important part though is pulling your buddies after a "you got a spider on your plate" gag and watching him have to put a Rubiks cube back together hehe...Anyone know if they still make that kind?
Thats a design in the plate carrier itself and not the armor. Standard issue carriers in the Army are all 'quick release' where you yank on a pull tab the carrier falls off of you or a buddy. Just search quick release and you'll find plenty
2:12 "I got up [and] strapped on my [plate carrier and] just wore it around for an hour and a half." I felt immediately accepted and that I was no longer alone. Right in the feels.
Lol I have soft And plates in Separate carriers. I feel Extremely safe but can Only use a pistol and am extremely immobile!😢😅
@@Blap552 I run a 3.5 pound III+ in the front and .5 pound IIIA rigid plate in the back of my carrier.
Decent enough protection while not being much of anything weight-wise.
Was hoping to see a shooting comparison between the steel and poly in this video
Hes got a video of shooting ceramic, steel, and poly armor to the point of failure
South African armed responder here. I wear armor 12 hours a day every day. Have been involved in and seen many many shooting incidents of all kinds. From homemade pipe gun assasinations to heavy hunting rifle self defense shootings to full on small scale war like cash in transit shootouts and everything in between. The comfort factor of carrying less weight for similar or arguably better performance is a no brainer. Trust me a steel based vest will spend most of its time in the car boot. Mobility is also way better with lighter Armour especially when scaling fences etc regularly. Steel also seems to heat up and retain body heat more. A factor in hot climates. Amd once toluose steel ates get some sun on them forget about it. I have also seen a colleague drowned because of steel plates. Furthermore the injuries sustained from bullet fragmentation off of steel is simply catastrophic. And that is with all types of liners. It simply does not work reliably. Remember most tests have bullets hitting at close to 90°. Omqgine a bullet hitting at an angle, fragmenting and then going on throug a limb. Mincemeat is putting bit mildly.I would rather get shot through and through instead in some instances. Best mix for my purposes is ceramic over hdpe with kevlar behind that.
this is most probably the best Input from a user of body armor that I've read since I keep revolving my mind around wether to buy PE/UHMPWE or AR500 steel plates. there's a Swedish company that sells spall covers, but yeah. your Input is invaluable. thank you, good luck and stay safe!
While I can't speak to the adhesives used in it's assembly, the polyethylene core of that body armor won't degrade unless you're storing it in direct sunlight. HDPE is a very stable and chemically resistant plastic.
But it will seriously degrade from taking rounds of any kind or size ! I am inconcerned about the sun light at all and veryu concerned about not getting shot, even once. There is not yet an actaul replacement for steel and yes it is very heavy. Oh well !
As I see it it all depends on the threats you may encounter if known ?
thank you for your input!
you need to hop down the DIY body armor rabbit hole my guy
I can't wait until we get polyethylene armor that looks like phase 2 clone trooper armor.
Yes yes yes yes YES... sign me up.
Oooh yeah. Also gives us an excuse to miss a lot lol.
@@ivannamendez8298 What are you talking about Republic Clone Troopers were the best trained soldiers in the galaxy. Bred from the earliest stages of infancy to fulfil their assigned roles within the Grand Army of the Republic. Each clone had at least 10 years of training and simulation training (thanks to the accelerated aging).
The ones that have a reputation for bad aim are the imperial stormtroppers, who are recruits, not clones. Although this reputation is unwarranted because they literally explain in the movie that they were missing on purpose so Han and the others could escape to Hoth and they could follow them there and find the Rebel base.
So in reality they don't have bad aim either.
EDIT: Sorry I'm a Star Wars nerd and I got triggered lol.
@@the-real-zpero that intentional misses make them really good shots
I want Mandalorian Commando Armor or Old Republic armor in Lw Polyethylene layering a iiia body glove.....maybe even some lightweight alloy centered over hdpe on the spots likeliest to get hit. I say that yet all my shit is lw currently for mobility. would be cool to see. at 170lbs the average 30% of bodyweight kit "limit" doesn't leave but 15-18lbs for armor when adding general musette/pack, gunbelt and a rifle with support items :(. Lifting and lifting but cant seem to gain weight back.
The buoyancy discussion reminded me of my Fire Acadamey training course where we were supposed to, while wearing a full set of turnouts and a steel training tank/rig, "use our helmet to scoop an air bubble under the surface and place it between your legs and sit on it for flotation...". It worked less well then I imagined when they gave us the instructions LOL. Great content as always mate. Love the channel. Best to you and yours.
The idea of balancing on a helmet bubble in swimming trunks for 5 mins sounds exhausting, much less in full gear.
so you arent old enough to remember the pants sailors wore on the WW1 and 2 ships? the bell bottoms were huge and supposed to hold air if you fell overboard.
@@Davidautofullthey probably did if you were able to take them off and tie them like they taught us in the Army
Spalling is metal shooting off from the other side of the impacted area. More accurately that coating is anti splatter material.
The use of the world spalling when it comes to body armor has been a personal pet peeve of mine, here and on most youtube channels.
After watching so many vso vids trying to determine what plate and carrier setup I found myself confused as to what I should go for. While unlikely as hell there are scenarios where 1 setup can be detrimental but that same setup might be perfect for this other scenario. So I've decided to suck it up and invest money into no less than a couple. 1 down, working on the other and am thankful for this channel and the useful info it brings.
"But what if he shot you in the face?" Lloyd Christmas
“Well that’s a chance we were willing to take.”
@@GGKevin I didn't get a gun. Did you get a gun?
dont worry you will not feel a thing . game over.
That's where devtac comes in to play
Finally found ya. Remember Dallas afew years back? Yeah. You still owe me $20 for arm wrestlin loss. Dont make me call your mom. Pay up
😁🤣😂👍🇺🇸🖖
Both my Veritas and Veritas Lite plate carriers from AR500 Armor does accommodate thicker plates, such as ceramic or polyethylene plates.
I fit hesco l210s in my varitas
Buy one that does? Lol
I’m going to guess that is the plate carrier manufacturer that he didn’t name. Lol
I like the comparison. I chose steel over ceramic or poly for the price and my use. I only wear my plate carrier once in a while and not for more than a few hours. So for me I don't find the extra weight too much. For long term wear or specific mission use, I can see the extra investment in poly plates too save on weight. I think for most people who don't wear plate carriers for work or who aren't military, it's all preference at that point.
I hope you like eating shrapnel.
For an extra hundred or so you can go with level 4 ceramic and not deal with spalling
@@SkintSNIPER262 Ahh... so you didn't watch the video or any video on anybody testing these plates. Maybe watch them and you will be surprised at who was eating shrapnel and who wasn't.
“I WHIIIISH I WOULDA HAD THIS WHEN I WAS WORKING THE ROAD”
scott is a national treasure
@@trashcompactorYT lmaoo i guess
Ijust got my steel 550 plates from Caliber Armor fall sale at 112 each which is awesome and they both came very fast.
Fwiw my Veritas carrier from AR500 holds my Hesco level IVs fine.
Polly and ceramic are generally good for 5 to 10 years, depending on the composite. Still is usually good for 20 with coding.
I have purchased the steel caliber plates. I noticed the curves are quite aggressive so I wonder how well it would work against spalling if you flipped the plates. Use the curve to deflect the spalling more. That would make for an interesting video I think. Great customer service also.
Most steel plates have coating on them to reduce spalling so flipping it around would have the steel in the front rather than the coating so spalling would be a huge issue if you choose to do that.
Throw them in the trash or use them as targets. Steel armor will get you killed.
@@bensmith9164 getting shot in the shoulder, exposed stomach or any other unprotected area will also get you killed. the coverage area of the vast majority of these plates is hilarious. But touching on Steel vs others, steel is the only single layer product tested. If you want to prevent fragments, cover the steel in Kevlar or similar materials. It's not often you see ceramic armors tested with multi hits in the same area.
@@FM4AMGV good luck to you I guess.
@Ben Smith You're quite the keyboard warrior arent ya
The other bad part about ceramics. Is have to have an X-ray to make sure they're not broken because they can be compromised. You don't want to wear a plate that's compromised.
UA-camr: don’t buy steel, it’s too heavy and it’s not level 4
Me: mkay makes sense
Same youtuber: don’t buy ceramic it can’t stop more than a few rounds
Me: oh okay yeah that makes sense
Me:
So wait which one do I get?
Light And Strong whichever it is. Keep asking guys,you definitely don't want to be Weighed down too much. Then Train And Work out,Cardio too. Confident and Lightfooted!!🫡🇺🇸
Expiration dates on armor are there more for insurance purposes than anything else. Secondly, company's can make alot more money by selling more products if they put an expiration date on it.
Hey VSO, Actually you only need one plate on the front chest. If you get shot in the back the front plate will still stop the round as it passes through. LOL Great info for the plate buyer.
Do you like RMA's 1155 plates?
Body armor needs to comform to your contors. Center mass protection is great but they side profile wounds are deadlier.
A form of scalemail ballistic armour protection should offer protection while keeping maneuverability.
Consult your local sci fi shooter for armor ideas
It’s basically plate vs mail
I think both'll last a long time, unless chemicals that-I dunno degrade overtime were used with the "plastic" body armor, maybe it'll react differently in humid areas, dry areas etc? Idk.
the price of Freedom is constant alertness and willingness to fight back.
our patriots defending Ukraine and fighting for Freedom.
many people joining territorial defense forces without any basic protective gear and body armor ...
is anyone willing to help with SAPI plates level 4 to protect people's lives???
Why don't they put a lip directing outwards on the top of the steel plate? Even a large weld bead on the edges? Something to direct blast at least from your neck if the coating fails.. How about you test it
If it was a flat plate that might work a little bit. With any type of curve? Nope. Trade offs
I agree I think the design of the plate as is, very solid but IMO a good switch these armor company’s should be doing is putting at least a quarter inch increased strength barrier on the outside edge. If you take a shot to the edge of the plate.. without reinforcement.. hope you bought a decent ifak.
Thank you for the video man because I just picked up the steel w/spall coating and its awesome bro . Thank you again!!!!
I'll have to go check out your code for some poly plates! I'm loving the hrt carrier!
I'll be honest. AR500 (for what it is, using the proper coatings) was the cheapest lvl3 on the market (during their sales)
100% on the gigachad levels of fitness you need to perform in long duration applications with steel.
The UHMWPE model doesn't have a strike face per say. All of its layers of UHMWPE that when pressed together and autoclaved, essentially become it's "strike face/core/fragmentation containment. Bullet enters plastic, melts the plastic, then it rehardens and catches the bullet. Jacket fragments and other material that shed from the bullet get contained in the many layers.
A pure UHWMPE I would say is very robust. Falling on it, taking non ballistic threat strikes to it, will be fine. It's biggest determinant is heat. They supposedly don't like prolonged heat, and a lot of internet myth seems to imply if you leave it in your car trunk for quite some time, will cause the layers to delaminate. Likely a bit of truth to that, but a time here or there isn't going to kill a UHWMPE plate.
I think the biggest downside to pure UHMWPE plates is their inability to stop M855. They have the reverse problem of steel armor. PE is very good at stopping lead core speed such as M193, but hardened materials even at slower speeds present a problem. Steel on the other hand, can stop M855 and even M855A1 (under 3000 fps so SBR), but it has trouble with true spec M193 (typically over 3000 fps).
Hybrid (ceramic/pe) seem to offer a good compromise to being able to stop a wide threat profile, and in some cases, an NIJ Level IV Certified plate can be as cheap as the steel offering. Most of those are single curve however at that price point. They can still take a good beating (most good NIJ 06 will have a foam strike face protector, as well as a ring on the outer perimeter of the plate edge), but some care should be applied.
thats a great post.
if we could just have the best and the lightest and the cheapest combined.
i want to know what, added behind, will help UHMWPE stop the APs.
Dumb question can you fit the poly in front of the steel plate and wear it as double protection? I understand it would weigh more but wouldn't it help with the deformity of the poly plate after being shot several times
I bought old Italian surplus poly plates and shot a 556 55grain a 308 150 grain and 45-70 460 grain at 1700fps all in a triangle about 2 or 3 inches apart and stopped all three
I love my poly plates😍, steel is what i give my friends get when shtf
Does anyone make a poly plate with a steel core? If the poly were sealed on the edges, it would hold up longer than a coating, but I've not seen it yet.
That would kind of negate the whole advantage of poly which is weight.
For Plates I went with Midwest Armor and Officer Survival Solutions, good high quality plates. Carriers I went Velocity Systems as well as Midwest Armor, I also recently got one from First Spear.
Having a fucked-up back can be very expensive and very unpleasant. I say go lightweight if you can.
Im working on some armor designs trying to find the hardest and strongest workable materials and combinations of materials i can. So far im thinkin graphene. Only thing known of with more hardness in the known universe is the crystaline crust of a dead stars core. Its practically godlike potential for armor. Im thinking aluminum oxide or aluminum oxynitride over a graphene backwr would be a good lighteight option. It doesnt exist yet but I'd like it too. A full suit of that inspired by both samurai armor systems and german gothic armor systems of old. Over an exoskeleton to help mitigate the felt weight of cours either powered, actuated, or some combination of both.
Regarding warranty it's not just the steel they are covering, the anti-spall and outer coating that holds it all together are part of the equation. Depending on what conditions it is exposed to some things can accelerate the natural breakdown of polymers or the other chemicals that make up the non-steel components of both plates. UV light is known to be a problem for polymers but military testing of body armor includes both extreme temperature testing and chemical immersion testing including (but not limited to) gasoline, motor oil, salt water with an extremely high salt content, and weapon lubricant. The chemical testing may include extended soaks measured in hours or days. I have no doubt that Caliber is only putting 5 years so that if someone's plates accidentally spent months soaking in something in someone's basement they might be able to get out of dealing with an issue they didn't anticipate. In such a case with the steel once the outer layers are gone and the steel is exposed rust is also now a potential issue.
shelf life is for insurance reasons.. if you die using it after 5 years, their not liable.....
I was going to buy a set of Steel plates but I don't feel like humping around an additional 26 lb. Add on all the gear you would normally have. Whatever vest and loadout, that's going to be around 30 to 40 lbs, then your ruck another 40 lbs. You're over 100 lbs real quick real easy. I didn't even add in your weapon or sidearm. I've looked into modifications to an M81 flack jacket (7 to 10 lbs) they are level 3A rated, with some modifications you could bump it up to 3+ or 3 depending on the materials used. It would also be alot more cost effective.
Not to mention you get a lot more ballistic coverage area.
How can they afford to sell the steal plate for $130? I just Googled the cost of 550 steel and it's going for $744.50/ton which works out to $0.37/pound so all said, I'm betting the coating probably costs more than the steel plate itself and that's even factoring in the cost of cutting and forming the plate.
so essentially 3$ for just the steel for a single plate, and then automation to form curves, spall layer, and logo. They probably make more money off a single plate than you think...
I'd be interested in seeing how the coating on my shellback ar1000 plate does, but I'm not willing to test that yet. But I keep gaurddog spall covers on my plates. Not to mention they're also only 6lbs a plate.
I didnt go with steel because of the price point... I went with steel because my kit is for SHTF and I'd rather have something with longevity over light weight... ceramics and shit like that are useless after a few rounds hitting it while steel can keep going... I dont ever plan on getting shot but if I somehow take 1 round then I want to be able to have a plate that wont need to be replaced
So which one would be best for security guard
I appreciate the vid, man.
PROBABLY THE MOST HONEST REVIEW, AND TO WHAT MATTERS…. 👍
With God's help and my military training, I'll be fine with level 3 steel amor with anti spalling sleeve and trauma pad ! A Veteran.
After years, I ditched my plates. Would rather be lighter especially in the terrain in my area.
There is a reason we use AR 500 steel for targets. Hoever, I don't need to be a walking tank . Let me survive a round or two, move to cover. In theatre, sure. Steel. Anywhere else,... PE
Buoyancy is an interesting factor i didnt consider
If it does keep your head above water thats a big plus imo
Great job as always VSO love the show 👍👍👍👍👍
Bearded man, "I work out 6 days a week"
Also Bearded man "My thin shouldies ouchy after an hour wearing my baby vest" 🤣🤣🤣
Appreciate the info you provide here.
Great video!!!!!!!
Very informative for someone who is looking for a body armor setup (like myself).
In 20 years the steel plate will still stop bullets. But in 20 years I would NOT trust the anti-spall coating on the steel plate. Without spall protection, the steel would only be marginally better that the synthetic plate.
You can always buy a new anti-spall cover.
There's a reason why militaries don't use steel for personal body armor, granted its intent is for daily wear for many hours but its more than just weight.
No its absolutely weight. A soldier is already carrying quite a bit of weight and it is unnecessary to have a heavier plate when you can carry a lighter one with a higher expense.
@@dthompsont3796 If you can show me a steel plate that can stop Armor piercing rounds, let me know.
@@noneyabusiness8065 level IV steel armor is rated against 30 caliber armor piercing rounds. Anything else?🤦♂️
@@dthompsont3796 and who sells lvl 4 steel armor?
@@dthompsont3796 I'll just answer for you, no one sells lvl 4 steel armor plates. You need AR 600+ plates to defeat some armor piercing rounds, problem is AR 600+ is very prone to cracking because it is so hard it is very brittle; so putting even one curve in it can cause it to break, and a flat plate might survive one shot before breaking.
I hate the misuse of the word spalling too, but I blame the body armor companies for starting the misuse of the word. Armor can spall, but bullets FRAGMENT. I also hate the misuse of the word smelting. It does not mean melting or casting metal. It means extracting metal from it's ore.
its*
Smelting could also mean the act of catching little fish. Lol
Very valid points al the way through!
I would really love to see you test a level 4 ceramic plate on a high caliber
I have both types and would say the AR 500 has longevity the polymer does not, or anythting other than steel. Yes they are heavy but you can train for the weight as it helps off set the weight tremendously
Remember once the poly takes a few rounds it is toast or worse and the entire purpose is to avoid getting shot for any reason. Therefore it would have to be replaced if you are not seriously wounded. So all of that defeats the orginal purpose. I use an early military intercetor carrier/vest because it has all the hook ups for gear and with no plates is level II protection. That woll stop all pistol rounds but how do we know there will only be postil rounds coming at you ? Well we simply have to use the best judgement we can muster up for every potentiality . It does not get any better than that. I prefer the steel
Are either of these plates NIJ certified or are they NIJ "tested" by someone independent?
As far as I know no they arnt
You forgot to mention that the more expensive one is also NIJ certified.
Good info! Thanks Curt!
I run 3+ and 3+ soft and one trauma pad
On every steel plate I've ever seen the shelf life is a minimum 20 years.
Great comparison. Gonna go with the poly armor!
It all comes down to cost for me. I work in a field where I have to provide my own armor that I wear at work everyday.
And if I, gods help me, take a round in my armor...I dont have to replace anything in my carrier. My steel plate isn't going to be compromised.
But if I was wearing a composite armor, I would have to buy a new plate. And that's what does it for me.
I think if a man takes a rifle round center of mass and walks away, he's entitled to treat himself to a pour of good whiskey, a pair of dry shorts and a new ballistic plate!🤣
@Think Harder Well, I have a deductible that I would pay for my insurance but I do have company provided insurance.
Level IV ceramics do offer protection against more dangerous threats but the likelihood of those threats ever presenting themselves in my field are slim to none.
As for replacing the plate, that's not always possible. If I'm on a 9 month contract overseas, and God forbid my carrier takes a round in the first month, I'm not getting resupplied any time soon.
If I'm working stateside, I'm even less likely to ever come across a threat that would defeat a level III plate. Though I will say that since I posted this, my company provided my entire with Shellback 4S17 plates and a set of replacements which I have in my current carrier.
@Think Harder Well I spend most of time sitting down xD Im not going out on foot patrols anymore.
Ceramics are multi-hit rated true. But every hit compromises the integrity of the armor and NIJ ratings have the hits spaced evenly across the plate. As far as I know, fhe NIJ doesn't actually rate for multiple hits in the same spot.
@Think Harder Yea, ceramic is perfectly good and all. But guys in the military have ready access to resupply. No one is going on patrol with a plate that's taken a hit, unless shit has gone apocalypticly wrong.
@@thinkharder9332 The carrier doesn't get ripped up if you wear steel properly. A sleeve shouldn't let any spall hit the actual carrier.
Shelf life is a big factor to me
Just bought some man thanks
Good video here. Solid info
How about a hybrid with some polyurethane and a layer of ceramic on top of it?
Those are becoming more common. That way they can easily stop 5.56 green tip which poly struggles with by itself.
You should probably search more than one manufacturer before putting info like this out. Most places PE isn't so much more than steel in some cases about the same. Ace Link is great and only a little more than steel.
It's not too often that I come across someone that has common sense. Squared away - Sub'd👍
I'm just throwing mine in my backpack. I don't think I need a carrier.
i got mine from that company. love everything about it
Hmm 😂 how do you collect that warranty in the event of a failure?
Every single video I have seen with plate carriers and how they handle spall is a slick carrier. How may people walk around in a slick carrier? I have mag pouches on mine and any rounds would have to go through them..and ruin them in the process..but how would that effect the spall? You want to do a real test shot a full kit and not just a carrier with plates.
I "use" a 4 layer panel of kevlar over my build-up coated CATI steel armor, do you think that is sufficient for projectile fragmentation? I say "use" because I just wear it and luckily haven't found a need for it. . . . . yet..
how could you possible know how long the coating will survive? it will NEVER last forever! maybe 20-40 years.
Shelf life is main decider between the two for me
It blows my mind that steel is much much cheaper than a glorified dinner plate and a plastic dinner plate you give to small children so when they push it off their high chair it doesn’t break. All because the material is lighter and more convenient for the user. It’s annoying.
@@thinkharder9332 well no, they have level 3+ which does the same thing as Level 4 ceramic. And I’ve seen level 4 plates fail after 2-3 hits in the same general area from green tip 5.56. I’ve watched belt fed weapons unload on steal plates without failing. And if you’re so confident in Ceramic protection go drop your plates down a flight of steps or onto your driveway 1-2 times….
@@thinkharder9332 thats bullshit. Level 3 steel was designed specifically to stop rifle calibers including green tip. You didn’t see any 5.56 caliber going through level 3 plates out of any barrel at any range. 3+ was introduced to stop common AP rounds. Though sure it won’t stop a ridiculous caliber like 30-06 AP but that’s an extremely rare round to find yourself against. You can’t justify paying double the price for a product that will turn to dust after a couple of hits and be worthless in the long run. If you’re in a situation where you can’t replace your plate and the fights not over, you’re screwed. I also didn’t say right on top of each other shot placement. I said I saw someone shoot green tip at a level 4 ceramic plate. First round stopped. 2nd round was shot in the same section of the plate and it failed. You can shoot steel all day with green tip it won’t go through.
Glad you did this video....
What about CONDOR MOPC? I know- inexpensive but is it any good?
Have you ever done a video on safe Life vests they are unbelievable?
very informative, great video
Im literally here cause im setting up my plate carrier. I know that no matter what brand i go with im going to get the Spall coat, but looking for differing opinions on things. Just like food, tthis is no different. Everyone has their own opinions on things.
love your channel
Moral of the story. Buy ceramic
There's a reason all professional militaries use ceramic.
Please tell me why, I am leaning toward poly because I don’t want to fall ands break my plate
1 shot on ceramic it's useless
@@LanceZ99 That's false though. A good ceramic plate (silicon carbide based, usually, there is more to it) can take 9-10 shots of M885A1 before anything comes through. Not all ceramics are the same, aluminum oxide based plates are way more brittle.
The whole point of a plate armor is giving you enough time to take a shot or two and get out. If you got shot 9 times on the plate, you probably received several more impacts elsewhere on the body and you're already bleeding on the ground. The only advantage of steel on a real life-death scenario is that the guy that shot you might get to loot your plates from your corpse afterwards.
Lol complete opposite. How did you miss the point? The benefits of steel far outweigh poly.
Why are you calling it plastic? Is it different than ceramic? also, how would plastic (ceramic) respond to hit just after being submerged in water? Would being wet reduce it's effectiveness?
Spalling is spalling; spatter is what your thinking of and testing here. ;)
Spatter is a spray of liquid deflecting off a surface. Spalling is fragmentation or the breaking into smaller piece from a larger piece.
You spall needs are so fucking dumb.
Let me guess, you cry when someone says clip instead of magazine?
Hey boss, like yourself and Tactical Bacon I am a tall very broad-shouldered brother. what are some plate carriers that you would suggest?
Velocity Systems has great XL carriers with XL Cummerbunds, Midwest Armor is great too, they have lots of big guys sizes and they both have great customer service. I would hit them up and see what you like.
UARM has four sizes of plates AND carriers. Not cheap though
I like my ceramic plate 🤙
Poly for fat out of shape larpers and steel for anyone that wants to live. Modern coatings mitigate shrapnel.
We use to wear armor with something like a parachute rip cord on the upper chest. One pull, and the armor just melts off your body...Very useful for unexpected deep water submersion, being on fire from an IED, or treating a casuality...Most important part though is pulling your buddies after a "you got a spider on your plate" gag and watching him have to put a Rubiks cube back together hehe...Anyone know if they still make that kind?
Thats a design in the plate carrier itself and not the armor. Standard issue carriers in the Army are all 'quick release' where you yank on a pull tab the carrier falls off of you or a buddy. Just search quick release and you'll find plenty
@@danielbabcock7004 Wasn't sure if present day military still use that kind or not. I served when those designs were just coming into the Army
@@50StichesSteel i was 2013-2016, and keeping up with friends still serving and such, its generally the standard nowadays
@@danielbabcock7004 Awesome to hear it's still used..I was 05 to 2011
Gucci plates for comfort, economy plates for backup?
What kind of plate carrier do you have in this video
Can you double plate the "Poly Pocket"?
Steel with a bed liner sprayed on it. It better be cheep
thickness steel ?