LR3 / Discovery 3 air suspension problem - am I missing something here?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 лис 2018
- / britrest
www.paypal.me/britrest2018
Your support is appreciated!
If you have a Defender/Tdi problem and do not know how to fix it, drop me a line! Maybe I can help!
britrest@britrest.com - Авто та транспорт
So the diagnostic fault is slow inflation of the system - runs a few seconds and cuts out
I am sure it is not the pump BUT I do not have this fixed to the vehicle so it could be that the computer is opening the exhaust valve - not sure - but the unloader valve is working as the pump starts under pressure
I am quite surprised the LYNX system has no facility to open and close the solenoid valves -if I could, say, trigger a valve to open and it does not then I can say it is a sticking valve or a computer/wire issue - easy fix
I cannot even override the pump to stay on long enough to check the valves
You would think that there was a valve sticking but the gallery feeding the suspension units have a valve each on a common manifold (gallery) - so surely I could get one corner to raise?
I may feed the system with dry shop air and see from a known supply, what the pressure switch is saying ( I can read that on the LYNX)
If the switch is shot then the it will trigger a slow inflation issue
Britannica Restorations Ltd fault code C1A20-64 present? Likely a blocked filter on the EAS compressor. I'm fairly certain this little conundrum was rectified with the newer AMK compressor as I've never seen one of those fail. Hitachi units however, sometimes doing three or four a week.
Also, now that I've watched later into the video and you mention that the filter was not blocked. They do a piston rebuild kit to prevent air leakage and allow pressure to build again. Quick tip, if you're looking to do a leak test, open a door and leave her overnight. Door open will not allow the system to vent, safety reasons and what not.
Well that seems to be building pressure quite nicely... you could have a crack at renewing the relay, that'll be a cheap stab in the dark. Seems like an issue with one of the valve blocks to be honest, a stuck valve perhaps which is preventing a corner from raising as it should and creating too much back pressure. As it will be reading from each of the height sensors, this seems to be the likely cause for a fault.
I heard from thre customer it has a small leak but they guy does not want to put anything into it - pump will probably go but he is thinking of coils now
AMK is fitted
Use to have one of these loved it. Air suspension is a pest check disco 3 wiki page for lots of help.
Main issue compressors, valve blocks, tank holes, and connectors. Nearside (UK ) wheel arch has the wiring harness for the air suspension towards the bulkhead
Yes James but you end up replacing the whole system - my point is if they are going to make an air suspension system for an 'off road' vehicle, then make it as trouble free as coils and shocks
I dont normal do this but thank you mate u got me out a hole big time
That looks like an amk pump check if it’s had the up date done they run at a lower pressure (255psi the older ones run at 275 psi .c230 fault code is usually the exhaust valve sticking in the side of the pump be careful when undoing it the ally bolt sticks sometimes.great videos
You said something interesting the compressors fills the system first then the reservoir, could there be a leak on the system somewhere, that compressor only produces a small volume so it wouldn't take much of a leak to pull the pressure down.
OK, just watched the second video it was a leak on the system. Just a thought on why the compressor was held off, those little compressors are low duty prolonged use will knacker them in no time (overheating) there might be an algorithm in the software to protect the compressor from excessive run times.
They have an overheat sensor in the pump windings, but if there is no pressure rise in 15 - 30 seconds the system shuts down and throws a code - which is why it was difficult to diagnose on the vehicle
Maybe check the air tank for corrosion or leaks. The air suspension on D3s is normally very reliable (in my experience)
Think is I cannot get air into the tank or system
Good luck sorting it. I have to admit I sold my D3 and swapped it for a 32 year old Range Rover with a 200tdi - so much better and I stand a chance of fixing it!
In compressors you get condensation, maybe water is emulsified with lubricant and blocking things up.
I have Disc 2 year 2000 the air pump was not working faulty pump orderd new one all good :) and I restord the old one for a spare.
Hi Mike,
I don’t have experience with the D3’s, but with the P38 Range Rovers. We had a good 6 months of issues (back in 2001ish) and the car was about 5 years old.
Similar issue to what you describe, the computer would log a fault code for not enough air supply. I may be wrong, but I thought that the P38 would fill the air tank first, then the air bags? Whereas the D3 fills the air bags first then the air tank second? Either way, we had the first issue being a slightly leaking air bag. Sort of fixed the problem, but not really. Then tried replacing the compressor, no difference. Finally we changed the valve body, as we couldn’t properly test the one in the car. Changing the valve body fixed the problem. Leaky valves turned out to be the only thing that could leak air quick enough/ or prevent air flowing, to consistently cause the issue/log the fault code. Hope there’s something is my small essay (lol) that might help you.
Also love your videos and approach to land rovers and servicing. Kicking myself that I didn’t make extra time to come and visit when I was in Montreal.
Cheers, David
David - it seems there is a valve issue not been throw up by the computer - OR a bad pressure switch
P38's were easy to work on compared to this!
d schil03 ghastly bloody things those were... I know, let's take all the electrics and govern them with a single module... here in Australia, Brisbane in particular where I carried out my time with JLR, we used to have to send the bastards off to Perth as there was one man in the country that used to diagnose and repair the BCM. A/C, heaters, accumulators, air suspension... the flashbacks are real.
Seems I am getting all the back heels in Quebec!
Had enough now
You know the P38 with air was a pain, but once you worked out the issues it was pretty simple
But JLR never learn from their mistakes - the feed back (if they listened) must have given them so much information where they were going wrong
So what do they do = well they did it all wrong again and made it tie in with all the rest of the crap
Same goes for every product they made - never listen to the customer, and now they have 'designers' coming up with concept cars, the engineers have to squeeze all this in with no thought to the workshop techs who have to work on them
And don't get me started on Genuine parts pricing and availability....
@@BritannicaRestorations Totally agree with this, the Evoque was a prime example. A designer handbag for designer wives.
I would remove the compressor relay and run it with a jumper to try and get pressure in the system, can then check for leaks/bad solenoids. Might just be a prv or pressure sensor gone bad
I've done that, but it bumps the compressor up to max pressure (as I tested on the bench) and you can hear the relief valve blowing off
There must be a blockage OR a valve not opening by the computer
I put the compressor on the bench and tested it with a gauge to show you guys
The tone of the pump when it's getting to full pressure sounds about right compared to my disco 4 so think that pumps okay to be honest. If it's not filling the system quick enough I bet it's got a leak pretty early into the system so at least one sensor is detecting a slow increase in pressure. My nsr bag has a split that sometimes holds air or doesn't. If it detects a leak it shuts down the whole system with a suspension error fault and stops everything
It's working!
I will cover this in an update video
Mine is not lifting. The pump turns on and off. Just looping through on and off. But zero raise.
@@Assistingalways that could be a leak coming straight out of the pump or the exhaust is stuck open, it'll get the pump burnt out pretty quickly if it's continuously pumping though. Maybe try checking the exhaust filter?
@@Rickus23 checking the signal that turna the relay on, it's definately the one thats cutting out. The pin that activates the relay is not providing a straight voltage. It's responsible for on and of.
Hi, was this resolved, having loft issues aswel
Would love to know specifics as to how you managed to connect the compressor to the gauge. What fittings did you use and from where?
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pneumatic-Push-In-Fittings-Connectors-Air-Water-Hose-tube-Quick-Release-/123653140562
@@BritannicaRestorations Awesome, thanks so much!!
Not having any joy with my Ldr3 once starts up it makes a rattling noise trying to fill with air I guess then cuts out and puts up fault on dash
My disco 2 which we've owned for 18 years has had a few problems but it's never been a problem where it's left us stranded...
I had a valve block go which had cracked and letting air escape so wouldn't lift car so might be worth checking the valve solenoid or block...
I've always treated it as a service item and replaced the bags every 7-8 years along with ride height sensors and have always kept them clean, I think I'm on my 3rd compressor which I don't think that bad.
Personally I love the air suspension but keep it maintained and I think that's the trick with it...
But it is all the time and hassle when it lets you down.. Literally!
Britannica Restorations Ltd like I said Mike, it hasn't really as the only real problem was the valve block cracking and that was when it was parked in the drive, luckily I had one with the old compressor.
Both times the compressors have been changed was down to them making a strange noise so I changed them before it was a problem...
Air bags aren't expensive and take minutes to change and the same with the compressor, well that's a little longer! I like the ride and the self levelling, I've loaded mine up with sand and cement bags and start her up and within a min it's back to normal ride height.
If you wanted the 7 seats when new then it was fitted with air suspension, change the air bags to springs and the insurance can be invalid over here in the UK...
The D3 is a different system to the D2 SLABS - that was easy/and cheap to fix - but C$1400 for a rear spring for the D3 - the issue here is I probably need a better diagnostic system to work on this
The book says inflate the system with the T4 diagnostics - I just cannot warrant spending money on a new system - have to do it old school bu that is time consuming
Britannica Restorations Ltd yes my mates got the disco 3 and he's been through a few compressors, my fathers disco 4 has been 100% reliable and that's coming up to 8 years old now..
Unfortunately Mike it's the path Land Rover have taken, my wife was just watching on her Facebook the Land Rover 70years page with the Velar.. you should read some of the negative comments... I do wonder sometime what the hell Land Rover are playing at!
You either move with the times or you don't! That's the reason I drive my old 200 defender and the wife has the old 2001 discovery. Easy to fix!
We used to say back in the day, as soon as Land Rover fitted ashtrays to their vehicles, they were on a slippery slope......
I had the same faultcode. Redaing about it on the disco3.co.uk site, i located the fault to be in the drier cap. Where you have the red and blue collar it was cracks that air escapede from. Replaced cap and all good ever since.
This had a brand new pump already fitted
Hmmmm you are bloody right mate.. Next step I would check what version of the amk compressor you have at hand. I remember reading about some of the first gen amk compressors had an internal fault. If my memmory servers me right, there are 2 software versions avalivble for the amk's. for first gen and for 2,nd gen. I have replaced the compressor to an amk gen2 on my lr3, and it did not like the software on the eas module. I had to reprogram it with the correct software version.
I bought an IIDTool from Gap Diagnostics. i think it was around 150 quid at that time. Its a handy device communicating with your Apple / Android device. And you have all the live values for your viewing pleasures.
The GAP tool is made not far from me. I tried to tap them for a freebie to test it but they would not be on!
Tell me - can you test individual valves and relays?
If I could have set the pump running I could have found this better = I could on the P38 but not on this truck
The LYNX I use is made by Omitec which makes the LR T5 machine but the section to test individual parts is not available
Have you tried airing up the suspension with the shop air compressor?
Understand that I have _zero_ experience with Land Rovers. That said, it's just a pneumatic system.
My thoughts:
1. test the pressure sensor - electrically if you can find the info
2. hook up shop air to the system through a regulator set to 20psi or so
3. beginning with the connections closest to the air input, disconnect and check for air. Continue through the entire system ending at the connections farthest from the input. If the system is blocked anywhere, such as debris in the connection for the pressure sensor, this should eject it from the system. This will also let you know if the control valve is properly routing air.
4. once you can verify that air is getting where it should (on shop air), check for leaks.
5. if everything seems fine, I would start checking wiring from the sensors to the computer.
Also, what are the electrical specs for the compressor? If I understood correctly, the compressor was replaced, but not with the right unit? If the compressor was replaced because the original unit died and the new unit is pulling too many amps, it could be tripping a thermal breaker. If that's the case, then the entire system could be fine and you'd still see this type of behavior.
Hope this helps,
Les
I have it running - but not working!
Pump, main valve to tank, pressure switch all check out fine - I think it is the rear suspension units
New video on its way - back to work!!
what are the pneumatic hoses made of ?? is it possible one or more have deteriorated so not allowing air to flow through properly ??
They are 6mm polyethylene - pretty tough stuff
Hi you said connect the two battery leads together to clear the faults does this damaged fuses or is it safe
It is supposed to do a hard reset but never seems to work to for me
If can why not fit the pump again, the like did in the vice, connect directly to a battery, bypassing the computer and raise the d3 up of its haunchesthen the system is pretty loaded, just an idea
Think I have worked out the issue - new video on its way but it has something to do with the rear suspension - pump and main valves, tank are fine
And I seem to recall the owner said it had new rear suspension fitted...
When some one tells me “I have new suspension in the rear”
There is a 95% chance that person doesn’t have one clue about how a machine works.
If the car has ride height sensors, It might be worth checking them out
But all 4 should not be out at the same time - and I cannot get the car to lift to see the ranges on the diagnostics!
Bit of a catch 22
Will the car lift if you give the pump an external supply, like you did on the bench?
Mike I am betting that it's times like this you are wishing that you could have been on the LR design team If only to tell them that what they have come up with is CRAP and far to complikunted to be reliable or easily repairable . My other thought is that pumps .AIR /WATER/OIL.only supply flow. the pressure is the resistance to the flow.which simply means that the air is not getting to where it is wanted by being either blocked or leaked before it gets there .However after watching many of your video's and also understanding your thought process in tackling problems I do know that eventually you will find a solution or fix, probably something that LR should have considered before the accountants took over the design department .
Christopher
I was working on this at 4 am this morning and I had the system running - but not working - just uploading a new video but I think I am on the right track!
Or a leak
But as someone else has said check out Disco3.co.uk lots of experience and know how on there.
Yes I have been
That 340 from the pump is getting close to the system maximum, so I'd say the pump is fine. Here in Oz there is a guy who makes and sells emergency air up systems for D3/4s ( www.greenovalexperience.com/product-page/eas-emergency-inflation-kit ). Perhaps your customer would like to buy one.
If you apply compressed air ( I'd start with a low pressure ) to the system does the car lift?
In answer to your question re 34 years, I'd say, given the people I have talked to who own these things, that the answer is YES. People LOVE them. There are people, here at least, who are dedicated to keeping them going.
The air system checks out and operates great now - but will not lift - I have a new video on the upload now, but I had a pressure gauge fitted the the outlet for the rear suspension and everything worked (except the lift as the rear was isolated) - soon as I re fitted the rear line - problems
Bit of breakfast then I will tackle it
As for the 34 years - LR have a program of making parts obsolete at 7 years now for slow moving parts - started that when Ford took over
Problem is will the aftermarket suppliers think there is enough demand for post 2000 vehicle parts, where as the Series and Defender market is huge
@@BritannicaRestorations Glad to see you fixed it, Mike. Those cheap push connectors are useless under pressure.
I hear you re the parts obsolescence, it's a disgrace, but it's apparently " the future ". Folk like us are dinosaurs. However, there are many ways to keep on. That D3, or LR3 for the Yank market, uses the 2.7 PSA engine. Here in OZ that engine was used in a local product, the Ford Territory. Ford Australia sorted a lot of the problems those engines had, and there were lots of them built. It's not a simple bolt in job, but it isn't hard. Many parts are being made by aftermarket suppliers. Good and bad, I don't need to tell you about that.
But the D3/4 is held in high regard here for it's touring while towing capabilities.
Keep the vid's coming, but do try to get a little sleep, 'cos we'd miss you if anything happened, Mike.
PS. You really need another racoon.
Thanks!
Lets see what bring brings for orphaned Raccoons!
@@BritannicaRestorations You need the racoon, Mike. Your vids are interesting, and very informative, and also a lot of fun..... the racoon gave you an edge, something that set you aside, something to watch. You will rue the day you sent Rupert away......Mark my words... Lol. I would have had him...... well, if I wasn't in Australia..
He was cute, but when they get to 40 lbs - not so cute! (and he crapped all over my tools and shop!)
He left of his own accord and a good thing too as it is illegal to keep them in captivity as pets - in Ontario you can get a huge fine just for feeding them!
Ok ok ..first things first .. happy birthing deeys and may your everythingkts be every wharrs all at once squadron leader..😎😁.. ok lr3 air seebloodywellspentions yes ..and when i say yes i mean no ..pack it up and sent it to the poor starving kids in africa along with my tripe ...when doubt dobinsons hd suspention .. your welcome ..im here all week ..😁😎pip pips and carryon squadron leader
Check valve block
I checked the one nearest the pump off the vehicle with 12 V t the solenoid and clicked nicely - took it apart and put a we bit of silicon spray to lube it but the issue is I have no method of triggering the independent valves with my current diagnostics - I can for the P38 but not for this - seems I need something to do deeper
If there was a way to open all the valves and let the pump run, then maybe I could figure it out better - but an a few seconds cycle it is not long enough
@@BritannicaRestorations has it got the factory fit sat Nav? If so has it got the 4x4 screen option on the main screen? If not your device might let you switch it on this would give you an insight to where the car thinks all its wheels are.
That would be too easy!
No it has no screen
However, this morning I will pull of the first set of valve blocks and attach it to the pump while in the vice - then I can see if there is air passage through it and operate the solenoid to see if the valve is opening to the tank - you know thinking about it I could set up the whole pneumatic system on the bench and test it!
I know exactly what’s wrong mate. Contact me. Better speaking over phone.
My ass!