Varta batteries are the bane of so much vintage hardware, computers, games, synths, outboard and apparently mixing desks too! Amazing how much logic there is in that desk considering it is essentially an analogue mixer! Bet there's not so many chips in my Mackie 8 bus! 😅
HAHAHA, this was my summer project last year. it was a 48 channel recording desk, took everything apart, cleaned, check3ed caps, my advice, by zip up mlaundry bags and clean your knobs in the washing machine, they came out beautiful. bought them from temu for pennies.
Great video again folks. Maybe just solder the second battery in situ. I think when I changed the 2 batteries I done them in situ. If I remember I flipped the center section on it's side on the console and managed to solder it from there. Good luck you guys. Remember flux is your friend
Yeah we thought about that for the second battery. But that one seems even more damage, so we got advice to try to get the PCB out just to have a look at it and make sure the traces and components next is ok.
@@moneeo Nice one. You guys rock!!! Since the battery on the center section is upside-down, I think any leakage would drip down and not affect the pcb as much as the other battery does. The traces are a little fragile and replacing caps is daunting. The legs of the caps are all bent outwards ( for keeping them in place for soldering ). The legs can be cut directly underneath the cap, then you can either splice the cap onto the old legs or heat them from the topside and remove the legs ( pins) from underneath with tweezers. Just be gentle and use some flux.
I put one of those same lithium cells in a delay unit but i could not solder to it without a special flux so i put it in a battery holder. Pointless using baking soda and vinegar. You are just adding alkali and an acid again. Just use baking soda with a little distilled water to neutralise the battery acid but then you must remove all residue so no future reactions can continue. Use more distilled water or rubbing alcohol to finish up.
I also thought of using alcohol to clean things up, but someone told me it could destroy the thin layer of coating on the PCB. Distilled water sounds like a great idea that we will use for the further process - thanks for the tips!👍
You use baking soda for acid containing batteries and white vinegar for alkaline batteries, the aim is to neutralise the opposite chemical deposits. You should never leave the mix on too long or it can lift traces on the board.
@@moneeoNot sure why someone told you that? IPA is industry standard to clean PCBs. First use your neutaliser to remove battery deposits, then IPA or tap water to clean depending on how dirty, then distilled water to rinse. To clean up flux after solder work use IPA and then rinse with distilled if needed
I would have zero concern washing that circuit board in tap water and rinse with distilled water just for peace of mind. I washed PC motherboards and even CRT monitor PCBs with no problems. On really dirty boards I used liquid dish soap, rinse them well and let them dry. I didn't have always access to compressed air but that can shorten the drying time.
Senior EE here. It's fine but distilled water is cheap enough to use entirely. A grounded ESD mat and wriststrap is a good idea since mosfets and older digital chips don't handle ESD very well.
I worked for GEC Marconi in Edinburgh as a Milspec repair specialist for RAF Nimrod flight control systems (Avionics) it was standard procedure to wash the boards to remove the flux and the horrible antivibration covering they painted them with. Basically it was a sink, a neutral soap solution and a nailbrush. Once cleaned they where placed in a drying cupboard for a few hours. I would suggest do a small one first get your courage up but you'll be fine.
It's only fine if there are no mechanical components like potentiometers and carbon tracks. Ultrasonic cleaner is the prefered device for this type of job and only distilled water. However the affected arrea should be NEUTRALIZED no matter what and that has nothing to do with cleaning really.
Great time to recap your board too, not too many electrolytics. Have fun, use a desoldering tool i was nervous when you pulled Legs w/ plyers😂, im recaping my channel strips in my soundtracs too and sometimes pads or traces lift with just looking at it😅. Keep out the good work Keep posting videos! Nice work
Recapping is on the todo list for the future. I believe it will take some time since there seems to be aprox 48 electrolyts per channel...😳 This project is one step at a time, and they are probable baby steps since everything takes so much longer time the first time we do it. 😀 Thanks for you encouragement, we will keep filming!👍
@@moneeo remember to add bypass caps around the audio electrolitics and, and decoupling caps for the rails of your opamps. It will be a lot 😅. On your mute board there is like 10 or more wlectrolitics to be changed.
@@moneeo For that old console a PSU recap is a must and i´ll do it asap, also power distribution caps inside the console. A failure on a channel strip is a pain but nothing serious, a failure of the PSU or the power distribution can be a disaster for the whole console! Also 30 years ago there was not that much noise as now at electric grid caused by switching power supplies from TV, laptops, etc... so an iec connector emi filter chassis mount for the PSU certainly will not hurt, if the PSU does not have it... Have fun and good luck!
@@jplexstudios This is the first time i have heard of "bypass caps around the audio electrolitics and, and decoupling caps for the rails of your opamps" - could you tell me a bit more about what that is good for?
And when you reseat the ICs you will get a slight noise. This is normal (assuming you have the bottom of the board well supported). Also make sure you have anti static stuff (ideally a strap as well as the board on an anti static mat).
In that case. Make a foundation out of a mat or similar flat item that will support the board. Use 2 or 3 fingers across the top of the ice and gently push. It will settle in and ensure good connection. What happens is as the board/chips heat and cool they slowly “walk” out of the socket. Gentle and methodical
Great feeling isn't? I have done this before.(and still do it) It's a labor of love! Might I suggest; when handling pcb with such rare ICs, you should probably ground yourself with a wrist strap to avoid static discharge. You don't have to wear it on you wrist. You can attach it to any part of your body. As long as your body is attached to ground(earth in Europe). I always do this when handling any pcb with ICs. Good luck.👍
That is a truly great advice that we will do for the rest of the project - thanks!👍 Is it a good idea to connect the ground of the ESD wrist strap/mat to the ground of the JADE?
@@moneeoYes. As long as your ground source is a solid one. I find the wrist strap gets in the way sometimes. You may find this funny but, I usually remove the strap from the wire (it just snaps off) and just insert the end of the wire inside my pants at my waste. Just make sure the the wire contacts flesh. Et voilà! You are grounded and hands free!😎
You can get an antistatic matt connect it to the ground system and buy heel straps for your feet.. that way the cable wont get in the way which it always does!. Just remember to tuck the ground strip into your socks :P
Be careful flexing a board of that size. Make sure you support it. Also, those sockets that the ICs are in can get oxidized. So while you're in that deep, its worthwhile removing the ICs (with a good tool, not a screwdriver) cleaning the legs and sockets and replacing (with a good tool). Have fun.
It sounds scary to remove the IC's, since they been sitting there for so long and are really fragile. It sounds like they could easily be damaged when removing them...
@@moneeo the ICs are more robust than you think, but, devices of that era are very sensitive to static electric discharge, so invest in an anti-static wristband and an anti-static mat for the top of that flight case you are soldering on, because some of the ICs used in audio equipment from that era are getting expensive (they are becoming hard to find). BTW that board you pulled is basically a computer ;-)
That's standard practice for audio gear. A lot of equipment like synthesizers or effect units have batteries soldered to the pcb. It's usually easy to desolder and replace them, for any studio technician. A soldering iron used to belong in any studio.
@@UseYourBrain930 Any idea of what could be the benefit, other than that it's easier in manufacturing to solder straight on to the PCB than to a battery holder?
Interesting that you have changed these batteries for something completely different .. Those batteries are rechargable and therefore the board will have a charging circuit .. which then may have trouble with your new type of battery. Is your new one also rechargable? My Solitaire has one automation board for 12 channels .. So I have 4 batteries on total to change and 3 boards to fix (corrosion is quite bad). Are you sure there are not other boards to change too under the other channels?
Hi Per several viewers don't understand if the batteries leak the board tracks are damage, you should have called me if you had taken the first back panel of you could have got at the CPU board without taking out all those channels but never mind there are actually 112 mute switches if you have the 4 on the Aux return channel thats 96 on the 48 channels 12 on the master Aux outs and the 4 on the Aux returns good luck Mike Baker
You are so right Mike, we really apreciate the advice from you who are more experienced in doing this service. I will have to check the back panel - that seems like the correct way to reach these PCB's. Thanks for the tips mate!🙏❤
Could you not cut the battery off where it is leaving as much of the leg as possible, then solder on some long cables to place a new battery wherever is convenient?
I have a Soundtracs Solitaire and did exactly this...Also advisable to keep the mixer turned on for long enough to get a lasting charge into the battery...
That advice is a good solution to not have to stress the circuit board more than necessary.👍 But since the second battery seems to have pretty much battery acid leaking, i got the advice (from a soundtracs Service technician) to take the PCB out, just make sure there are no damaged traces on the PCB.
Great tips Martin, since it has been sitting almost untouched for 2 years before we bought it, i believe there can be oter benefits as well to keep it running for some time.👍
That is sooooo true and we ordered a new battery as soon as we found out. Will change it in the next videos and take care of battery nr two. 😀 We are truly grateful that you guys watching our videos, chiming in when you notice things that we might have missed. 👍
@@moneeo I use these to replace batteries in vintage computers. But disable the charging. Sometimes this requires cutting a trace. If it is not already eaten away 🫣🪓
Varta batteries are the bane of so much vintage hardware, computers, games, synths, outboard and apparently mixing desks too!
Amazing how much logic there is in that desk considering it is essentially an analogue mixer! Bet there's not so many chips in my Mackie 8 bus! 😅
The MARKED cable is actually the Negative one, that mark is a Minus symbol (------) and the Unmarked one is the Positive one.
Same as Capacitors.
Aha, that makes sense.👍
HAHAHA, this was my summer project last year. it was a 48 channel recording desk, took everything apart, cleaned, check3ed caps, my advice, by zip up mlaundry bags and clean your knobs in the washing machine, they came out beautiful. bought them from temu for pennies.
great story, our analog sweeties really need this kind of love!❤
What kind of desk was it?
@@moneeo allen and heath gl4000 dual use. its gone already, i rescued it from a dumpster at a church in gary indiana, looking for my next project.
@@bigdaddy-fk5bi Wow, that's a great dumpster rescue - nice!👍
@@moneeo buddy thats my 3rd console rescue.
@@bigdaddy-fk5bi ❤
Great video again folks. Maybe just solder the second battery in situ. I think when I changed the 2 batteries I done them in situ. If I remember I flipped the center section on it's side on the console and managed to solder it from there. Good luck you guys. Remember flux is your friend
But if you leave unpowered for any time they start to leak, at least if they are away on leads they can leak elsewhere and not destroy the PCBs
Yeah we thought about that for the second battery. But that one seems even more damage, so we got advice to try to get the PCB out just to have a look at it and make sure the traces and components next is ok.
@@moneeo Nice one. You guys rock!!! Since the battery on the center section is upside-down, I think any leakage would drip down and not affect the pcb as much as the other battery does. The traces are a little fragile and replacing caps is daunting. The legs of the caps are all bent outwards ( for keeping them in place for soldering ). The legs can be cut directly underneath the cap, then you can either splice the cap onto the old legs or heat them from the topside and remove the legs ( pins) from underneath with tweezers. Just be gentle and use some flux.
@@Joey-rp5vg Yes, hopefully gravity have saved the board from some of the battery acid.👍
I put one of those same lithium cells in a delay unit but i could not solder to it without a special flux so i put it in a battery holder. Pointless using baking soda and vinegar. You are just adding alkali and an acid again. Just use baking soda with a little distilled water to neutralise the battery acid but then you must remove all residue so no future reactions can continue. Use more distilled water or rubbing alcohol to finish up.
I also thought of using alcohol to clean things up, but someone told me it could destroy the thin layer of coating on the PCB.
Distilled water sounds like a great idea that we will use for the further process - thanks for the tips!👍
You use baking soda for acid containing batteries and white vinegar for alkaline batteries, the aim is to neutralise the opposite chemical deposits. You should never leave the mix on too long or it can lift traces on the board.
@@moneeoNot sure why someone told you that? IPA is industry standard to clean PCBs.
First use your neutaliser to remove battery deposits, then IPA or tap water to clean depending on how dirty, then distilled water to rinse.
To clean up flux after solder work use IPA and then rinse with distilled if needed
I would have zero concern washing that circuit board in tap water and rinse with distilled water just for peace of mind. I washed PC motherboards and even CRT monitor PCBs with no problems. On really dirty boards I used liquid dish soap, rinse them well and let them dry. I didn't have always access to compressed air but that can shorten the drying time.
Whaaaattt - that sounds a bit to brave for us!😀
@@moneeo just give it a try, not on your best equipment if you don't feel brave enough😁.
Senior EE here. It's fine but distilled water is cheap enough to use entirely. A grounded ESD mat and wriststrap is a good idea since mosfets and older digital chips don't handle ESD very well.
I worked for GEC Marconi in Edinburgh as a Milspec repair specialist for RAF Nimrod flight control systems (Avionics) it was standard procedure to wash the boards to remove the flux and the horrible antivibration covering they painted them with. Basically it was a sink, a neutral soap solution and a nailbrush. Once cleaned they where placed in a drying cupboard for a few hours. I would suggest do a small one first get your courage up but you'll be fine.
It's only fine if there are no mechanical components like potentiometers and carbon tracks. Ultrasonic cleaner is the prefered device for this type of job and only distilled water. However the affected arrea should be NEUTRALIZED no matter what and that has nothing to do with cleaning really.
Great time to recap your board too, not too many electrolytics. Have fun, use a desoldering tool i was nervous when you pulled
Legs w/ plyers😂, im recaping my channel strips in my soundtracs too and sometimes pads or traces lift with just looking at it😅.
Keep out the good work
Keep posting videos! Nice work
Recapping is on the todo list for the future. I believe it will take some time since there seems to be aprox 48 electrolyts per channel...😳
This project is one step at a time, and they are probable baby steps since everything takes so much longer time the first time we do it. 😀
Thanks for you encouragement, we will keep filming!👍
@@moneeo remember to add bypass caps around the audio electrolitics and, and decoupling caps for the rails of your opamps. It will be a lot 😅. On your mute board there is like 10 or more wlectrolitics to be changed.
@@moneeo For that old console a PSU recap is a must and i´ll do it asap, also power distribution caps inside the console.
A failure on a channel strip is a pain but nothing serious, a failure of the PSU or the power distribution can be a disaster for the whole console!
Also 30 years ago there was not that much noise as now at electric grid caused by switching power supplies from TV, laptops, etc... so an iec connector emi filter chassis mount for the PSU certainly will not hurt, if the PSU does not have it...
Have fun and good luck!
@@jplexstudios This is the first time i have heard of "bypass caps around the audio electrolitics and, and decoupling caps for the rails of your opamps" - could you tell me a bit more about what that is good for?
@@nomoimusic3096 We are thinking about getting a new Bluedog PSU and have the old one as a spare.
I had a situation with an Early 80's keyboard, and converted it to a button cell battery that could easily be changed in the future.
That is some true love for the technology from back then!❤️
And when you reseat the ICs you will get a slight noise. This is normal (assuming you have the bottom of the board well supported). Also make sure you have anti static stuff (ideally a strap as well as the board on an anti static mat).
it sounds a bit scary to pull out and clean the legs of the IC's. We could get in to a REAL problem if one of them broke. 😳
In that case. Make a foundation out of a mat or similar flat item that will support the board. Use 2 or 3 fingers across the top of the ice and gently push. It will settle in and ensure good connection.
What happens is as the board/chips heat and cool they slowly “walk” out of the socket.
Gentle and methodical
Great feeling isn't? I have done this before.(and still do it) It's a labor of love!
Might I suggest; when handling pcb with such rare ICs, you should probably ground yourself with a wrist strap to avoid static discharge. You don't have to wear it on you wrist. You can attach it to any part of your body. As long as your body is attached to ground(earth in Europe). I always do this when handling any pcb with ICs. Good luck.👍
That is a truly great advice that we will do for the rest of the project - thanks!👍
Is it a good idea to connect the ground of the ESD wrist strap/mat to the ground of the JADE?
@@moneeoYes. As long as your ground source is a solid one.
I find the wrist strap gets in the way sometimes. You may find this funny but, I usually remove the strap from the wire (it just snaps off) and just insert the end of the wire inside my pants at my waste. Just make sure the the wire contacts flesh. Et voilà! You are grounded and hands free!😎
You can get an antistatic matt connect it to the ground system and buy heel straps for your feet.. that way the cable wont get in the way which it always does!. Just remember to tuck the ground strip into your socks :P
@@sylvaind9086 Sounds great, will try a solution for the next step - keep an eye on upcoming videos!👍
@@projekct_amk Heel strap sounds like a great solution - thanks for the tips!👍
Be careful flexing a board of that size. Make sure you support it.
Also, those sockets that the ICs are in can get oxidized. So while you're in that deep, its worthwhile removing the ICs (with a good tool, not a screwdriver) cleaning the legs and sockets and replacing (with a good tool).
Have fun.
It sounds scary to remove the IC's, since they been sitting there for so long and are really fragile. It sounds like they could easily be damaged when removing them...
@@moneeo the ICs are more robust than you think, but, devices of that era are very sensitive to static electric discharge, so invest in an anti-static wristband and an anti-static mat for the top of that flight case you are soldering on, because some of the ICs used in audio equipment from that era are getting expensive (they are becoming hard to find).
BTW that board you pulled is basically a computer ;-)
@@StuartTaylorEsquire That sounds great, could be a future project to take care off.👍
What were they thinking, soldering a battery to a circuit board???🤔😵💫Great video ❤
Yeah, i have no idea, but there must have been some reason...🤔
That's standard practice for audio gear. A lot of equipment like synthesizers or effect units have batteries soldered to the pcb. It's usually easy to desolder and replace them, for any studio technician.
A soldering iron used to belong in any studio.
@@UseYourBrain930 Any idea of what could be the benefit, other than that it's easier in manufacturing to solder straight on to the PCB than to a battery holder?
It seems to me (maybe), the small board remais attached by the row of pots on the front pannel.
we did some more research on it, and yes it is attatched to another PCB, that holds the pots, and we need to get em both out.
Ni är sköna =)
Ha ha, tack!❤🙏
Interesting that you have changed these batteries for something completely different ..
Those batteries are rechargable and therefore the board will have a charging circuit .. which then may have trouble with your new type of battery. Is your new one also rechargable?
My Solitaire has one automation board for 12 channels .. So I have 4 batteries on total to change and 3 boards to fix (corrosion is quite bad). Are you sure there are not other boards to change too under the other channels?
You are so spot on - these batteries are not rechargeable. Thanks for making us aware of that - new (rechargeable) batteries are now ordered!🙏❤
Hi Per several viewers don't understand if the batteries leak the board tracks are damage, you should have called me if you had taken the first back panel of you could have got at the CPU board without taking out all those channels but never mind there are actually 112 mute switches if you have the 4 on the Aux return channel thats 96 on the 48 channels 12 on the master Aux outs and the 4 on the Aux returns good luck Mike Baker
You are so right Mike, we really apreciate the advice from you who are more experienced in doing this service.
I will have to check the back panel - that seems like the correct way to reach these PCB's.
Thanks for the tips mate!🙏❤
Could you not cut the battery off where it is leaving as much of the leg as possible, then solder on some long cables to place a new battery wherever is convenient?
I have a Soundtracs Solitaire and did exactly this...Also advisable to keep the mixer turned on for long enough to get a lasting charge into the battery...
That advice is a good solution to not have to stress the circuit board more than necessary.👍
But since the second battery seems to have pretty much battery acid leaking, i got the advice (from a soundtracs Service technician) to take the PCB out, just make sure there are no damaged traces on the PCB.
Great tips Martin, since it has been sitting almost untouched for 2 years before we bought it, i believe there can be oter benefits as well to keep it running for some time.👍
That varta is an rechargeable. Be sure not to charge your replacement. Looks like a lithium battery...
That is sooooo true and we ordered a new battery as soon as we found out. Will change it in the next videos and take care of battery nr two. 😀
We are truly grateful that you guys watching our videos, chiming in when you notice things that we might have missed. 👍
@@moneeo I use these to replace batteries in vintage computers. But disable the charging. Sometimes this requires cutting a trace. If it is not already eaten away 🫣🪓
@@blenderbuch Ha ha, in that case a destroyed trace could actually be a benefit. 🤣🤣
ua-cam.com/video/70OvVphUaJI/v-deo.html sir, 14500 means the size of the battery (14x50mm), not the mAh :).
I'm the one mixing up the numbers on the battery in the video, sorry for that.😀
The correct number is 2400 mAh.