You are by far the best in explaining how recording works. The basic concepts, routing, purpose of console features. buses, Aux, direct out, tape in, monitoring, all these things are explained very well. The use of pictures and diagrams are very useful. They say a picture is worth a thousand word. Somehow, the way you explain and present things brings a logical understand to as to how everything works together. With your videos I have been able to set up a Tascam Model 12, a Tascam 34B reproducer and a Teac 4010S 2 channel tape recorder ( as my master) and record everything in analog with analog outboard gear. The Tascam Model 12 is a digital mixer. However, everything is analog at the input stage. The inputs can be sent out as a direct out to the tape. This keeps everything within the analog domain The final mix is sent to the 2 channel tape recorder and finally to cubase for a digital copy of the recording. The digital file is then used within Dreamweaver for my website. Please continue to make these fine videos. I am a subscriber and will be watching for your other videos.
Thank you so much! I have worked really hard to make all of the videos and I'm really glad you are finding them helpful. I am a big fan of Teac/Tascam gear and you have an excellent setup. I'm sure you can get great sounds with it. It's interesting how you are routing your gear and you must understand signal flow very well to work that way. I'm so glad the videos helped in finding a workflow and setup that works for you. Thanks again!
This is the best video I've ever watched! I've been studying and searching for ways to record and mix out of the box for months. This video clarified a lot of my concerns. Thank you!
Thank you! I am really glad you found the video useful. I have a lot of hybrid mixing videos and I try to answer all questions in the comments so let me know if you have any questions. Good luck and have fun!
Hi Grady, old fart here, done audio engineering for more than 50 years now! :) I have a few comments if you would allow (Beware, English is not not my primary language so try to read the intent more than the sense!) About bit size and sample rate etc... Don't worry, the way you describe it is not exactly how it works as the data is treated inside your computer not by the CPU but by what is called a DSP (Digital Signal Processor, the same things that are used in missiles guidances, multi aquisition radars and rocket launchers), that can crunch very big numbers very fast. So adding EQs and plugins in any DAW run on a computer from 5 or 6 years ago is quite easy. My main music PC still runs WIN7 on Intel 4 cores and is no competition machine really! But I do agree that the fun of manipulating all these controls in real time is such a nice way for a workflow that it's how I have always worked all my life. Just like you, I use Reaper as my multitrack 'recorder' and a nice Midas Venice F32 channels console, all analogue racks and a big patch bay! I track on reaper using the Midas preamps and I use Reaper, with maybe a few plugins here and there to produce submixes and stems, that I mix in the midas. The stereo output is then sent to a RME babyface pro on a second PC, that act as my 2 tracks tape machine. Just like I did in the '70s ! I am so comfortable with this concept. Another advantage of this workflow is that I work with very good musicians. So if there is a mistake, asking for a punch in/out is far more efficient than editing and fixing in the mix. I pity those who spends hours on correcting mistakes in the daw when really all you have to do is punch over the mistake. Honestly, I find the DAWs with their myriad of possibilities become a hindrance and a phenomenal waste of time. My recipe: - agood tune - a good arrangement - a good bunch of musicians who know what they are doing - good efficient engineering It works all the time. I really enjoyed this VDO, thank you, Luc
Thank you so much for your comment. I agree with you that the workflow when using a console is better for working with musicians and being more spontaneous when mixing. I also find that I am able to get a good mix a lot faster than in the DAW. Too many plugins and settings distract me I suppose. Mixing on an analog console makes things less visual and helps with paying attention to what you hear instead of what you see. I have been using Reaper for more than 10 years after using Pro Tools since version 3 in 1996 and then Sonar for awhile. I find it's less distracting and more stable than PT. I've been making some changes recently in my studio and preparing for some new videos but I am keeping my console and a lot of my analog gear. I am very happy you like the videos. They have taken years of work to make all of them. I am not only promoting the older methods but also trying to help others that want to learn about analog gear and how to use older gear and methods of recording and mixing. I agree with you and I think it is much better to have a good performance or to punch in rather than to do so much editing. Thanks again for your comment! And thanks so much for watching. All of the recent comments are really motivating me to make more videos on these topics.
Totally agree with that gentleman I’ve been playing my whole life many instruments and already have a ticket saying and I want to learn how to use the laptop even I have other equipment but we are for right now I’m not gonna get paid for them unit for my own personal makes me feel good type of thing so when I stop spending money on the a W and more time on multitrack recorder is that I ridiculously overpriced and then they Break easy because it’s too much focus on the other Suck my presume all 12 of 20 that stuff should be made the last a lot better and have more options and be cheaper learn it the hard way learn how to do 5678 voice is a semitone not a full-time doing everything you can learn how to play an instrument of choice start young enough your heart will be broken if you’re no good when you get older I hope everybody understands that the best way possible good luck
This video is exactly what I was in need of I just bought a used analog mixer I was tired of mixing on my computer becuz I like to be hands on However I was a bit confused on how to connect a analog mixer to my computer (DAW) with that being said you can find some great used analog mixers to give you that warm analog sound and feel for your mix and recording
I really like having a good mixer since it makes it easier to set up flexible systems for recording. They also sounds very good and add some warmth and color like you said. I'm glad you found the video helpful. I thought there might be people like me wanting to set up this way. Thanks for watching!
I'm reaching that stage in my development where I want my DAW clean. Everything mixed and mostly, if not all, processed in reality with hardware. As long as I have a good mixer and interface it won't matter if my computer is outdated or updated.
That's absolutely correct! Using analog gear doesn't use any CPU so you can use an older DAW and not be concerned with performance of the DAW as much as your mix. I find it also helps my mixes when I am not looking at screens and trying to find a plugin or setting.
Very helpful Grady, and timely for me! I recently acquired a Tascam DM24 digital console which I totally love. Being an old geezer, I also found a Fostex D80 digital multitrack (8) recorder. I couldn't get the ADAT to work directly between the mixer and recorder so used analog (8 channels). This works great as the Tascam has really great EQ/COMP/GATE and good effects although limited in simultaneous active). My next step is DAW to use as digital recorder (for the additional tracks and plugins) so your tutorial will be most helpful! Thank YOU!
Thank you so much for this! I've been looking to start recording at home and was just about to buy a Mackie FX series board when my church was about to throw away their old Mackie SR32.4 ... I knew there had to be a way to get that old board to work with a DAW.
That's all you need to sum tracks in the analog domain. The Mackie should have pretty good EQ which will save processing power in the DAW. As long as you have an interface with multiple outputs, you can really use almost any console that has tape or line inputs though some may degrade the signal and other will add some nice color. The Mackie should be clean and should not harm the audio. Best of luck! Let me know how it works for you.
Enjoying your vids a lot! I didn't know the Sapphyre was a large-format (which I thought meant it has compressors). Analog summing/mixing really makes such a nice difference - true linear instead of steps.
Thank you! The Sapphyre is a really cool console. It has gates on every channel. I'm not sure where the size and console names coincide. My Sapphyre is 7 and a half feet wide so I'd call it large but I'm not sure if there's a specific practice for large medium small console. Thanks again!
@@TwinCreekAudioIt looks like a super cool desk, is it a 'live' console? I think large-format includes compressors - I was suprised to find my 5'8"x3' Soundcraft 600 with patchbay was not 'large format' but its considered a midsize! So, i've been collecting outboard compressors :-)
@@schance1666 the Sapphyre is a recording console. It has tape inputs on all channels and a remix mode. Each channel has 2 signal paths which is not common in live consoles. So basically the Sapphyre is an inline recording console. I think some like the 500 and 600 were made to used as either and are split designs with tape or line inputs above the subgroups.
That's great! Hybrid workflow is lots of fun and gets good results. It's not that hard to do recalls either. I usually take a lot of photos of settings when I mix hybrid. There can be challenges to it but there are also challenges with working entirely in the box.
Very good Tutorial, I own a Soundcraft Ghost 24 channel analog inline Mixer and its the version with SMPTE capability but now these days SMPTE is obsolete, well for me it is! Good video man!
Hey Grady! I really appreciate your videos, very detailed and yet straight to the point! I have the chance to buy a Soundtracs MRX 34 which I fell in love with and I would use it with my motu 24 I/O. My goal is not only to record through the preamp desk going to separate tracks but also mix the tracks right the way you described in this video. Now my question: the MRX 34 doesn't have tape in/tape out but directs out and line ins. would it be efficient to route the outputs of the audio interface to each channel's line in? i know there's a flip-like button from which you cab choose wheter to make work xlr in or line in. thanks so much and greetings from italy!
The Soundtracs MRX is really nice console and you should be able to use the line inputs for audio interface outputs. If you have 24 outs and more than 24 channels, you can also use the extras for monitoring when recording. I hope that helps and thanks so much for your comment!
Thank you! I have really enjoyed making videos the last 3 years and I hope to continue making more. I try to make one a week and sometimes manage to make more. I really appreciate your comment and thanks so much for watching!
Great video! One question if you’re still answering: My Soundcraft K3 Theatre doesn’t have a “Tape In/Out” circuit, but would a “Send/Return” post-EQ circuit accomplish the same goal? I’ve used that board to record signal into my DAW, but I’ve never had the fully integrated setup (ie once I’ve recorded, the faders don’t control the mix) and I’m really trying to get that accomplished this year. The only thing holding me back at the moment is figuring out how to use the faders and outboard gear post-tracking.
I think you should be able to use the line inputs. It may require some re-patching between tracking and mixing but it's probably the best way without having to make custom insert cables or snakes. Patchbays are helpful and I like the cheap Samson models for the money.
@@TwinCreekAudio alright makes sense to me. I was hoping there might be a way in which I don’t have to re-patch between stages, but that’s not a deal breaker by any means. Thanks for the response!
Great video! You should make a video of the soundcraft signature 22 mtk, since that is the (in my opinion) best hybrid combination of digital/analog mixing thats availleble today, and at a very modest price! Keep up the good work!
I think those have the same EQ as my Sapphyre. I'd love to test one out.i really wish they had inserts on the channels but other than that it looks cool! I'll try to do a video as soon as I have the extra money to get one.
Yes, the Apollo interfaces except the 16 have ADAT optical I/O that can be used to add more analog outputs from the DAW. The least expensive option is something line the Behringer ADA8200 which has balanced XLR outputs and can also be used as a bank of 8 extra preamps. There are a lot of different examples of ADAT interfaces like this. Higher end units like the Lynx or Ferrofish will do the same at even better quality.
You have the best hybrid mixing videos I've seen on here. Thank you. The only thing I can't seem to find anything on is routing from an audio interface to an analog mixer then routing the individual tracks out, but i heard you mention it for a second earlier in the video. Do you have a video on this or any tips? Everything seems to be interface to mixer then stereo output back to interface.
I don't know if I have a video specific to routing signals out of the console for hybrid mixing but I have one about recording from an analog console into an interface. Can you explain more about what you're wanting to accomplish? Here are several videos I've made that might be useful: ua-cam.com/video/qEjg7h9iOqE/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/_S8IEMEp_FY/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/OlMjnQP58nU/v-deo.html Hope this helps and let me know more specifics and I can try to answer your question better or maybe even make a video addressing that specific topic. Thanks so much for your comment!
@@TwinCreekAudio thank you for getting back. I actually already watched all those videos lol. But what I’m specifically wondering about is if I can route my individual tracks out of the mixer to a separate summing mixer before sending the stereo print back to the interface. Also was curious about sending individual tracks back to interface instead of printing each track one by one back in. Want to use my DAW as a tape machine, but still trying to grasp exactly what I’m able to do and what I can’t do for the most versatility.
You should be able to do either of those things. You might connect the subgroup outputs to a summing mixer. That would allow you to send groups of tracks from the buses to summing inputs. You you can balance the levels with the subgroup faders. This would require patching the subgroup outputs to summing inputs and recoding the summing outputs. You may also be able to use the inserts to send individual tracks out and back in. There might be latency issues this way however. Certain mixers with audio interfaces built in are setup better for his kind of thing but it's possible with good latency compensation.
@@TwinCreekAudio awesome. Thank you again. Was reading a bit on the latency issues of going from daw to mixer to daw with individual tracks. And if I have direct outputs on my mixer I can just use those instead of the subgroups or inserts correct?
@@KennedyBetts yes, you can definitely use the direct outputs as well. I suggested the subgroups mainly because most summing mixers will have eight inputs and most consoles will have eight buses. You can definitely also use the direct outs to send an individual track out of the console.
ua-cam.com/video/OlMjnQP58nU/v-deo.html This video goes more into the connections that need to be made for Hybrid mixing. Hope that helps and thanks so much for watching!
Most of the time, I monitor through console 2bus to the consoles monitor outputs that are connected to my 2 sets of monitors. I don't really monitor though the DAW at all with my setup unless I'm mixing entirely in the box. Then that gets routed straight to the audio interface outputs to the monitors.
Thank a ton!!!!!!! This is what I want to do in my studio, I'm just in my "Studio Planning stage" right now, but This helps my confusion on the signal chain. FINALLY!!!!!! found a video for it Thank you again!! QUESTION.... Your just taking the main R/L outs from mixing console back to Audio Interface????
Yes, I will run the master outs from the console back into a pair of inputs. I can either do this with the same interface or use a separate recording rig. Sometimes I have to do that in order to get proper audio in some of the mixing videos. I am really glad the video helped. I have a new video coming this weekend covering more about hybrid mixing so look for that one as well. Thanks again!
@@TwinCreekAudio Thanks for the response,, How do you have your Mics, Guitars, etc.. connected?? Into channels on the mixing console or straight to inputs on the audio interface??
@@TwinCreekAudio Thanks for the response,, How do you have your Mics, Guitars, etc.. connected?? Into channels on the mixing console or straight to inputs on the audio interface??
@@chrisrsp2025 mics usually go through the console preamps with the direct out of the channels connected to audio interface inputs. I basically have it set up the way an analog studio would have been with the DAW connected like it's a tape machine. I'll also use some outboard preamps for certain things. All the audio interface outputs go to the console channels for monitoring and mixing. I rarely ever use the preamps in the audio interfaces that have them though my main interfaces don't have preamps only line level inputs and outputs.
Hi great informative video! I also basically want to use my daw as a ‘tape machine’ however I have a Soundcraft K2 desk and it doesn’t have tape return sockets. It does have ‘insert’ sockets for each channel so can those be used to input from the DAW to mix using the desk?
It should have line inputs so you shouldn't have to use the inserts. Just connect the audio interface outputs to the line inputs. That should allow you to mix through the console.
@@TwinCreekAudio ok thanks however I can do this using separate tracks not used for recording but I was hoping to use the same tracks for mixing with some sort of ‘flip’ switch for monitoring as some other desks have this function
@lcoiro the K2 was designed for live sound and doesn't have dual audio paths for the channels. You can use one group of channels for the send to the audio interface and another to receive from the audio interface though. There is nothing to flip on a K2 so there's no switch for it. Each channel has a line input or mic input and only one can be used at a time. On an inline style recording console, you'd have a main and monitor audio path for each channel. One sends to tape and one returns from tape. Sound reinforcement consoles usually do not have this functionality but there are ways to work around it.
@@TwinCreekAudio ok that’s what I thought so yes I will probably split the 40 channels on this desk in half with 20 dedicated for recording into the daw and the other 20 dedicated for mixing out of the daw
So most of the time the songs are recorded into a DAW. Whether that’s software instruments or tracking something like guitar? Then you take each DAW track signal path back to the console to mix.. once mixed, you will re-record a new 2 track back into the DAW in order to burn CD or upload as a mp3 (as an example)? I only ask as I have been an “in the box” person but from the old school that treasures that “analog” sound. Is this a proper way to get that analog sound? Even if, let’s say, a software synth was used as a part of the original DAW track?
Yes, can usually send a software synth out of an audio interface channel and into a mixing console without an issue. I have my DAW set up like a tape machine with a recording console so each channel goes to an interface input and each interface outputs goes to a tape return channels on the console. This way I can track multiple things at once with console channels and mix back through the console once everything is recorded. You can also record everything into the interface directly and then re patch to mix through a console. Ive made quite a few videos about how to set this up and how it works. The 3 most popular are probably ua-cam.com/video/RWmxkO2gnOs/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/eTXepnLPnLc/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/OlMjnQP58nU/v-deo.html A lot of the other hybrid mixing videos also have information about how to work this way. Hope that helps and let us know if you have any questions.
Thanks for this video. I have one for you. I have two mixers a Tascam Model 12 and a Soundcraft 12 MTK mixer. My main goal is to take tracks from my daw to the analog mixer (soundcraft) for saturation/warmth and then back in to Logic. Any benefit to using the Tascam for anything? Or should I just get the output signal from the Soundcraft USB channels? So confusing! 🫤
As those are both mixers with built in audio interfaces, I don't see any benefit to using both at the same time. For hybrid mixing, I'd probably use the Soundcraft unless the Tascam Model 12 has inserts where the MTK does not. If you're using a Mac, you may be able to create an aggregate device to use both mixers audio interfaces but then you'd have to do some creative routing in the analog domain to merge the analog side of using both. My advice would be to keep it simple. It saves time and make the creative process of mixing easier. The Soundcraft should provide the analog saturation you're looking for on it's own if you're mixing DAW tracks back through it.
@@TwinCreekAudio I really appreciate your response and it makes great sense! I’m going to go all in on the MTK! I need to keep things simple.. it hinders my creative process. Thanks again!
I've got a soundtracks solo midi that I use with a prism orpheus, I have a few analogue hardware plugged in from the ins and outs of the console to the interface, i can hear the processing the question is how do I record the processors that are connected to the ins and out of the console?, I've pressed down mix (flip) and buss I have the 2track in also, mix out is connected to the speakers, what else should I do?
You can record insert effects by running through the channel and out of the direct outputs to an interface input. Aux send effects will be more difficult as you'll need to record the output of the effects processors. Hybrid mixing using the console might be more efficient for your needs.
@@elmajesty pretty much it's just console outputs either direct outs or subgroup to audio interface inputs and audio interface outputs to console tape or line inputs.
I'm running a 44 channel Soundcraft Sapphyre with 24 channels being used for the digital IO and another 16 for the Tascam 16 track. There are quite a few videos about the Sapphyre on my channel. Great console for a hybrid studio. Here's the playlist for the Soundcraft Sapphyre ua-cam.com/play/PL7RglGSkQqfHMhcJMGn6GZXXnLM9WFMdu.html
They are turned that way to place the tweeters closer together. In my room, the NS10s are placed outside the other set of monitors so they are set this way to bring them in tighter so the sweet spot in close to the same for the KRKs(now replaced with Tannoy). Bass frequencies are less directional than highs so this placement works well in my room. The NS10s are placed farther apart than I would like but having them reversed like the helps stereo imaging even with them farther apart than I I would like.
Hey There, I’m buying a topaz project 8 console for €100 I’m using a MacBook Pro M1 chip ..what interface do you recommend or old one that is compatible with these MacBooks? I want to use at least 16 channels 🎉 now I have a Scarlett 18i8 3gen. Thank you for all the videos you made. Very helpful. I’m new to mixing out of the box .
The MOTU 16a with an additional interface with ADAT would be solid system that would sound great too. Another option would be the RME Digiface with 3 ADAT optical capable converters. Even something inexpensive like the 3 Behringer ADA8200 with the Digiface would work and be expandable to 32 with a other ADAT interface later.
I do think you need to be careful telling people that audio is “tossed out” when mixing digital. Most if not all DAWs these days use 32 bit floating point bit rates and proper dithering in every step. Because of this, digital mixing is actually perfectly linear and will always have less noise, distortion, and degradation than the digital converters, op amps, etc in the signal path of an analog setup, which also has unnecessary digital conversions. I do however see the benefits of an analog desk with regards to outboard effects and workflow
I see your point and I believe this video is the only time I mentioned anything about it. I also think I said it was just a theory but it's been awhile and I could be mistaken. Most of my professional work has been done in the box so I like working digital and recall is much better with a DAW.
Is it possible to send a multitrack recording to my console, mix the song on the console, and then record/(dub) all mixed tracks to the Daw again? In stead of recording it to a main L,R?
I think you could probably do that but it sounds like you'd just be mixing it twice. I think maybe what you're wanting to do is to send each individual track out through a strip on the console and back into the DAW. In this sense you wouldn't actually be mixing it on the console, you would just be sending each individual tracks through the console circuitry and recording them back into the DAW to mix in the DAW later. Mixing on the console then sending it back into the DAW would be like a hybrid mix. So if you take that and send it back into the DAW then mix again, It seems like you'd be mixing something that was already mixed. Maybe I misunderstanding the approach you were trying to take though. Pretty much anything is possible if you have the right gear. I guess I'm just confused about the reason you'd want to work this way. If you are just wanting the console sound on the individual tracks like a console plug-in would do, then you would just send each track out through a console channel strip and then record that strips direct out back into another track on the DAW. The other thing you can do is sub mix groups of tracks together through the console and then take those sub mixes and perform the final mix of your analog sub mixes in the DAW for the final 2 track mix. This is the closest to your original question I think.
Brilliant video thank you. I have one question, I am novice to the hybrid mixing. My DAW of choice is also Reaper, even using the same Imperial skin as you do. Console is MIDAS 32ch. So for routing each individual hardware output pair I need to open - ROUTE - manu, and uncheck -MASER SEND-? Only track that should be routed to Reaper -MASER SEND-, is final mixdown that is coming back from the consoles Main Mix outs? If I want to route Kick and Snare as mono track, should I select output pair 1-2, and pan them in Reaper hard left and right, or maybe Reaper can split output pairs, as two individual outs 1, and out 2? If you put some plugin as insert FX in track before outputting that channel to the console, how do you compensate for latency of that plugin? Did Reaper synchronize and compensate automatically for all plugins? Is it possible to route something like Sonarworks room correction plugin on the Reaper -Mater Channel-, and monitoring thru it in real time while you mixing and EQ-ing on the consoles hardware onboard EQs? Thanks. Sorry on my bad English.
You are doing this correctly already so yes the mixdown track would be the only one router to main mix. I monitor from the console while printing the mix and then listen to the mixdown track afterwards but I think can monitor though Reaper if you turn on monitoring on the mixdown channel. You should be able to use Sonarworks this way too. Reaper should allow you to route individual tracks to a single mono output no panning necessary. You are really on the right track and I'll post more about this soon. Thank you so much for your great question.
The direct outputs on all 24 channels connect to the inputs of 2 audio interfaces for recording. Then the 24 audio interface outputs connect to the 24 tape inputs on the console. These are normally going to the small monitor controls on the channels(for monitor mixes while recording) but can be flipped to the main channels for mixing. I made a video a few years ago that shows the entire setup process. Hopefully that will help. ua-cam.com/video/OlMjnQP58nU/v-deo.htmlsi=JCVqjMLBEg7ZuJ8P And here's another one ua-cam.com/video/RWmxkO2gnOs/v-deo.htmlsi=ZOPtNEg5MuZ4UoQ-
There really are no latency issues since everything is being sent out at the same time during playback through the console. I use a separate interface a lot for the videos to capture the mix. I could use inputs on the same interface as well without an issue depending on how I'm monitoring. There are a lot of different configurations I have to use to make the videos for this channel and some of its a bit complicated to explain. I was thinking of making a video about how it's done as I sometimes have to tap the control room outputs from the console instead of the main mix if I'm soloing things. There are quite a few tricks to it but I haven't found latency to be an issue working this way as long as I'm mindful of how I have things routed so that I don't have a direct signal and a signal that has been delayed by the interface combined anywhere. That's a really good question and very interesting to discuss. Thank you!
@@TwinCreekAudio Thanks for the fast reply! :) I have been trying to solve this, when sending just a singular track to outboard, so that they still line up perfectly in reaper when coming back in, but sadly the latency compensation in reaper doesnt get it totally right, so i have used the RTL Utility software (free) to ping the latency delay, and then have the compensation in reaper manually set to that value. This works great, but sadly has to be done manually. (Reainsert has a ping function, but doesnt work perfectly) But if you only print the stereo file coming out of the console, then i guess that is a none issue. (Or all direct outs)
If it has line inputs and multiple channels, it can work. It may or may not enhance the sound depending on the mixer. Analog mixing consoles with studio features are pretty inexpensive used now though so maybe you can find a more suitable mixing console.
It depends on what type of effects are using. You wouldn't be able to do this with a plugin and only 2i 2o but you could use a rack effects unit fed from the mixers Aux send and back to the effects returns or line inputs of channels. Best of luck!
Was wondering, are you using outputs 1/2 to go into channels in the board that send to main so that you can listen to UA-cam etc? I hate using 2 outputs and 2 channels just for watching UA-cam lol
Lol! I have done that before to watch UA-cam through my studio monitors. Right now I have a smart TV and it's wired directly to my Tannoys so I can watch UA-cam with good audio. I started buying outboard rack reverbs so I didn't have to give up interface outputs for FX returns from the DAW. Plus it gave me an excuse to buy more stuff for my studio. Lol!
so how would a tape machine be integrated to this process? I have a tascam m520, and msr 16. I was wondering if it makes more sense to take the 8 buses from mixdown to the echo audiofire 12. Is this an inferior method or simply different? I've been told to get the "tape" sound, it's better to track to tape and then record into daw. "print'
Using the buses to send to the digital audio interface would add more to signal path than using direct outs. In my setup, I treat the DAW and audio interfaces like they are a tape machine. With your console, I would use patchbays so you can record to tape and monitor from tape or patch the tape machine outputs directly to the audio interface inputs for transfer. You can also use pretty much any other combination such as printing a mix from tape mixed through the console to 2 tracks on tape. I prefer transferring all tracks 1 to 1 from tape to DAW. This doesn't require any synchronization this way like if you wanted to transfer 6 or 8 at a time due to less inputs on the audio interfaces or something. I would connect your interfaces, tape machine and console tape INS and outs to patchbays so you can reconfigure on the fly depending on what you need to do. You can also use an interface and DAW with plugins as an effects processor when mixing from tape so you have access to digital effects plugins while still mixinf analog through the console. I made a video about this: ua-cam.com/video/FynrfENwZHU/v-deo.html Hope this helps answer your question. Good luck and let me know how it goes.
I don't know if I mentioned it in this video. It's a pair of Echo Audiofire 12s. I love them because they work like a tape machine so you have the input signal present at the output to come back to the monitoring section of the console. This is switchable from the Audiofire control mixer. They also sound really good and have been reliable for more than 12 years now. I also have another MOTU setup and an Audient interface but the Audiofire are what I use for the big mixing rig.
Thx for the vid. You just changed my whole set up. My wife says thx! LOL. I always wondered why studios still use old analog mixers. I get it now. I have a 24 chan with direct outs for each chan. How do you suggest I go from that (which is simply the 1/4" unbalanced) into my interface which is all TRS or XLR balanced inputs? 2 are instrument and 6 are line. All 8 are XLR as well. Cheers!
Most interfaces will not care if you connect an unbalanced signal to them. It just unbalances the signal and as long as your cable run isn't too long, I doubt it will cause an issue. The XLRs on the interface are probably for mics and have preamps. Ideally you'd want to connect to 1/4" line inputs but if the XLRs are those combo jacks with 1/4" in the center, they will work fine. You'd want the interface outputs connected to tape returns or line inputs on the mixing console and then the master outs of the mixer connected back to an interface input. Let me know how it goes and if you need anything. Thanks so much and good luck!
@@TwinCreekAudio could you possibly do a vid showing how to patch from the mixer back into the DAW for a final mix? I mean the final main stereo mix like the master bus on the DAW. How would you mix to that and then download to an mp3 or cd?
It's an inline recording console so normally Mix B would be used for the monitor mix. Monitors would connect to the control room output and you select what goes to the control room with the switches in the master section. Full use of this console will require some research and the manual though. It was designed back when tape machines were used so it has many facilities that may not be needed with a DAW so it depends on what you're trying to accomplish.
Hey there Grady. Thanks for this and your other videos. I am legally blind and working with real gear and having a tactile response is much better for me. I am using a Tascam Digital Portastudio now the DP24 with ART VLA II compressor and the ART MPA II Pre Amp. I like it a lot but the idea of using reaper pretty minimally as a tape machien with outboard gear is real appealing. What are your thoughts on full analog mixer Vs say the Soundcraft SIgnature 22 MTK that uses its own Audio Interface. It seems everything you do is post fader until you print it to 2 channel from what I understand. I would think that would not always be ideal? Sorry.. long winded. I appreciate your work thank you!
Reaper is highly configurable. All keyboard shortcuts can be customized so that should make it very usable for you. Reaper also supports most control surfaces so that might also be beneficial for your workflow. A separate analog console with an audio interface connected to it would allow the most flexibility however the cost and setup time would be much greater than a mixer with an integrated audio interface. Not having pre fader aux sends may not be a problem when you can do so much in the DAW itself for example. Best of luck and let me know if you have other questions.
@@TwinCreekAudio Thanks a lot. some things to save up for. I was looking at the Soundcraft FX16II that looks good with inputs on every channel. I do use a dark theme when using reaper but I need to look into the shortcuts and maybe an interface. I see there are some cheap ones that people like a lot.
@@kevmay21 there are a lot of excellent choices in audio interfaces these days. Many people like the Behringer ADA8200 for adding more inputs and outputs to and from their consoles and that might save some money.
It depends on the type of mixer. Recording consoles have either direct outs or subgroups that go to inputs on a recording device and also tape returns for receiving signals back from the device for mixing. It's a different workflow than most audio interface/laptop setups. The master output of the console would go back to inputs on an audio interface to capture a mix made in the console back to a digital file. There is a lot to understanding all the signal flow arrangements and their use cases.
@@seabreese147 going from mixer outputs to the inputs of an audio interface would be for recording. For mixing, you would use the line inputs or tape inputs to mix through the console and then send the main LR out back into the audio interface to capture the console mix.
Essentially there is no difference electronically. They are both technically line inputs, with tape returns having a different name and different usage. Tape returns are usually found on consoles designed for studio use with a tape machine, ADAT or any multitrack with multiple inputs and outputs. The idea is that with a recording console, you have the main mix and a monitor mix so your recording levels aren't affected by the monitor mix since it's independent from the input signal being recorded. Then there are too different types of recording consoles, inline and split. On an inline console's the tape returns are physically integrated into the main channels strips while on a split design, they would appear in their own section above the bus masters or elsewhere to the sides of the main channels. There are a lot of variations on console design but the main idea is that a recording console will have tape returns with an independent mix for them. The main channels being used for tracking to the recording device and the tape returns for listening back. This way, the recording levels going to the recording device aren't affected when the singer wants to hear himself louder in the headphones. These days, tape returns aren't used as often since the monitor mix can be done in the box.
@@TwinCreekAudio thanks for the response and explanation. I ask because I just got into the analog world and was able to obtain a Tascam 2600 mkII. On the back of the console it shows a line and tape for each individual channel .
@@erictorres5935 the Tascam is a pretty good console. It's an inline design to the tape input on each channel would go to a control integrated into the main channel. Should be labeled something like monitor or on a Mackie mix B. This feeds an independent master section usually called monitor which can also be merged with the main mix so the tape returns can be used as additional line inputs on nixdown. The line inputs on the channels probably override the mic inputs when something is plugged into them. I think the manual should still be available from Tascam's website for that model. You might check that out or check out some of my soundtracs Topaz videos for a console with a similar design. Hope that is helpful and good luck! Feel free to comment again if you have any other questions or need clarification on something you see in your search.
As mentioned before too, the on board preamps on a lot of these old consoles are as good if not better than a lot of the on-board pre you get with the interfaces. They are a bargain for that alone. One question though, when you get a set of outboard eq or a compressor. As you can't run everything through it when you mix through the console, do you commit to it on the way in while you track it? If you track a whole band though, you need to decide.
Great question! Usually I will not print compression or EQ. I attempt to get the sound right at the source and commit just the actual sound and of course the sound of the chosen microphone and preamp. Sometimes I will print things with compression in cases where I am am working mostly analog and don't have enough compressors. I'll also use a combination of plugins and hardware at times though it can make gain staging tricky. There are ways to make it worK though. When you're sending something through the console, either it is already compressed or EQ applied in software then goes through the console or the pure sound is sent through the console and EQ is applied there and comorssiom from hardware on the inserts It can get tricky when doing both so just remember the order of each part of the signal chain ITB and in the console so you can evalaute the order of EQ, compression and other processing to your preference If you must print anything with compression, make sure not to use too much. I like keeping my options open for when I mix but having good sounds to work with. I agree that a lot of the preamps in older consoles have more character and can potentially sound better than the preamps in the average audio interface. I like using any of the old mixers and things like that for the unique sound as I enjoy doing things differently. Everyone is trying to use Neve style preamps while I'm over here using Fostex, Soundcraft, Interface Electronics and RTS Systems preamps and other uncommon things.
That's a good price for 4 channels of compression but I have never used that model. The Composers sound pretty good and similar to a Drawmer model from the 90s. This may be a stripped down version of the same circuit so might be worth checking out.
2:00 I’m sorry but this has no sense to it. Why can’t you sum 16 tracks together without losing data? You just say “there’s no way” with no explanation. The only thing I could possibly think of is losing bit depth, because you have to lower the volume of your tracks so they don’t clip on the master bus. That simply isn’t an issue though. With 24 bit audio that wasn’t an issue, and now with 32 bit floating point, it has absolutely 0 effect.
Good point for discussion. Thank you. How do 16X24 bit 48kHz audio files get combined into 1 stereo 24 bit 48kHz file without some data being lost? With each of the 16 files being theoretically 30 MB each and the resulting stereo file being 42 MB, how is this done without data being lost somewhere? Where the additional data in the file go? I'm just curious and wondering myself. The only thing that I've seen that makes any sense is the algorithm of the DAW and there is a lot of controversy around whether those sound different as well. I also wonder why I can never get nearly as much headroom inside a DAW as I can on an analog console. Like I said, I am not a scientist so I don't really know. I just have my opinion and explained it how it occured to me. I'd be really happy if someone could explain it better. Also, I do like digital audio and mixing in the box. It saves a lot of time having the recall of the project. I really appreciate your comment. It is a lot to think about.
people laugh when they see the mixer .... I love mixing analog ,,, twisting knobs ... sliding fader's ... pushing buttons ..all part of the creative proses... mixing in the computer always seems to have a delayed reaction ...also sounds like high end distortion ... analog mixing is a lot warmer and its all hands on ,,, 🐷
You are by far the best in explaining how recording works. The basic concepts, routing, purpose of console features. buses, Aux, direct out, tape in, monitoring, all these things are explained very well. The use of pictures and diagrams are very useful. They say a picture is worth a thousand word. Somehow, the way you explain and present things brings a logical understand to as to how everything works together. With your videos I have been able to set up a Tascam Model 12, a Tascam 34B reproducer and a Teac 4010S 2 channel tape recorder ( as my master) and record everything in analog with analog outboard gear. The Tascam Model 12 is a digital mixer. However, everything is analog at the input stage. The inputs can be sent out as a direct out to the tape. This keeps everything within the analog domain The final mix is sent to the 2 channel tape recorder and finally to cubase for a digital copy of the recording. The digital file is then used within Dreamweaver for my website. Please continue to make these fine videos. I am a subscriber and will be watching for your other videos.
Thank you so much! I have worked really hard to make all of the videos and I'm really glad you are finding them helpful. I am a big fan of Teac/Tascam gear and you have an excellent setup. I'm sure you can get great sounds with it. It's interesting how you are routing your gear and you must understand signal flow very well to work that way. I'm so glad the videos helped in finding a workflow and setup that works for you. Thanks again!
This is the best video I've ever watched! I've been studying and searching for ways to record and mix out of the box for months. This video clarified a lot of my concerns. Thank you!
Thank you! I am really glad you found the video useful. I have a lot of hybrid mixing videos and I try to answer all questions in the comments so let me know if you have any questions. Good luck and have fun!
Hi Grady, old fart here, done audio engineering for more than 50 years now! :)
I have a few comments if you would allow (Beware, English is not not my primary language so try to read the intent more than the sense!)
About bit size and sample rate etc... Don't worry, the way you describe it is not exactly how it works as the data is treated inside your computer not by the CPU but by what is called a DSP (Digital Signal Processor, the same things that are used in missiles guidances, multi aquisition radars and rocket launchers), that can crunch very big numbers very fast. So adding EQs and plugins in any DAW run on a computer from 5 or 6 years ago is quite easy. My main music PC still runs WIN7 on Intel 4 cores and is no competition machine really!
But I do agree that the fun of manipulating all these controls in real time is such a nice way for a workflow that it's how I have always worked all my life.
Just like you, I use Reaper as my multitrack 'recorder' and a nice Midas Venice F32 channels console, all analogue racks and a big patch bay!
I track on reaper using the Midas preamps and I use Reaper, with maybe a few plugins here and there to produce submixes and stems, that I mix in the midas.
The stereo output is then sent to a RME babyface pro on a second PC, that act as my 2 tracks tape machine.
Just like I did in the '70s ! I am so comfortable with this concept.
Another advantage of this workflow is that I work with very good musicians. So if there is a mistake, asking for a punch in/out is far more efficient than editing and fixing in the mix.
I pity those who spends hours on correcting mistakes in the daw when really all you have to do is punch over the mistake.
Honestly, I find the DAWs with their myriad of possibilities become a hindrance and a phenomenal waste of time.
My recipe:
- agood tune
- a good arrangement
- a good bunch of musicians who know what they are doing
- good efficient engineering
It works all the time.
I really enjoyed this VDO, thank you, Luc
Thank you so much for your comment. I agree with you that the workflow when using a console is better for working with musicians and being more spontaneous when mixing. I also find that I am able to get a good mix a lot faster than in the DAW. Too many plugins and settings distract me I suppose. Mixing on an analog console makes things less visual and helps with paying attention to what you hear instead of what you see. I have been using Reaper for more than 10 years after using Pro Tools since version 3 in 1996 and then Sonar for awhile. I find it's less distracting and more stable than PT. I've been making some changes recently in my studio and preparing for some new videos but I am keeping my console and a lot of my analog gear. I am very happy you like the videos. They have taken years of work to make all of them. I am not only promoting the older methods but also trying to help others that want to learn about analog gear and how to use older gear and methods of recording and mixing. I agree with you and I think it is much better to have a good performance or to punch in rather than to do so much editing. Thanks again for your comment! And thanks so much for watching. All of the recent comments are really motivating me to make more videos on these topics.
Totally agree with that gentleman I’ve been playing my whole life many instruments and already have a ticket saying and I want to learn how to use the laptop even I have other equipment but we are for right now I’m not gonna get paid for them unit for my own personal makes me feel good type of thing so when I stop spending money on the a W and more time on multitrack recorder is that I ridiculously overpriced and then they Break easy because it’s too much focus on the other Suck my presume all 12 of 20 that stuff should be made the last a lot better and have more options and be cheaper learn it the hard way learn how to do 5678 voice is a semitone not a full-time doing everything you can learn how to play an instrument of choice start young enough your heart will be broken if you’re no good when you get older I hope everybody understands that the best way possible good luck
This video is exactly what I was in need of I just bought a used analog mixer I was tired of mixing on my computer becuz I like to be hands on However I was a bit confused on how to connect a analog mixer to my computer (DAW) with that being said you can find some great used analog mixers to give you that warm analog sound and feel for your mix and recording
I really like having a good mixer since it makes it easier to set up flexible systems for recording. They also sounds very good and add some warmth and color like you said. I'm glad you found the video helpful. I thought there might be people like me wanting to set up this way. Thanks for watching!
@@TwinCreekAudio Indeed, have you ever heard of the Blastking Ultramix 244fx 24 channel mixer
I'm reaching that stage in my development where I want my DAW clean. Everything mixed and mostly, if not all, processed in reality with hardware. As long as I have a good mixer and interface it won't matter if my computer is outdated or updated.
That's absolutely correct! Using analog gear doesn't use any CPU so you can use an older DAW and not be concerned with performance of the DAW as much as your mix. I find it also helps my mixes when I am not looking at screens and trying to find a plugin or setting.
Very helpful Grady, and timely for me! I recently acquired a Tascam DM24 digital console which I totally love. Being an old geezer, I also found a Fostex D80 digital multitrack (8) recorder. I couldn't get the ADAT to work directly between the mixer and recorder so used analog (8 channels). This works great as the Tascam has really great EQ/COMP/GATE and good effects although limited in simultaneous active). My next step is DAW to use as digital recorder (for the additional tracks and plugins) so your tutorial will be most helpful! Thank YOU!
That sounds like a great way to work. You could transfer from the Fostex to the DAW or possibly sync them. Good luck and let me know if I can help!
Thank you so much for this! I've been looking to start recording at home and was just about to buy a Mackie FX series board when my church was about to throw away their old Mackie SR32.4 ... I knew there had to be a way to get that old board to work with a DAW.
That's all you need to sum tracks in the analog domain. The Mackie should have pretty good EQ which will save processing power in the DAW. As long as you have an interface with multiple outputs, you can really use almost any console that has tape or line inputs though some may degrade the signal and other will add some nice color. The Mackie should be clean and should not harm the audio. Best of luck! Let me know how it works for you.
What a nice and simple explanation
Thank you! I made this video to help people so I'm glad it's useful and easy to understand.
@@TwinCreekAudio thank you x1000!!!
Thanks mate that was a great tutorial.🙂👍
Thank you!
Enjoying your vids a lot! I didn't know the Sapphyre was a large-format (which I thought meant it has compressors). Analog summing/mixing really makes such a nice difference - true linear instead of steps.
Thank you! The Sapphyre is a really cool console. It has gates on every channel. I'm not sure where the size and console names coincide. My Sapphyre is 7 and a half feet wide so I'd call it large but I'm not sure if there's a specific practice for large medium small console. Thanks again!
@@TwinCreekAudioIt looks like a super cool desk, is it a 'live' console? I think large-format includes compressors - I was suprised to find my 5'8"x3' Soundcraft 600 with patchbay was not 'large format' but its considered a midsize! So, i've been collecting outboard compressors :-)
@@schance1666 the Sapphyre is a recording console. It has tape inputs on all channels and a remix mode. Each channel has 2 signal paths which is not common in live consoles. So basically the Sapphyre is an inline recording console. I think some like the 500 and 600 were made to used as either and are split designs with tape or line inputs above the subgroups.
Great video thank you. I am looking into hybrid mixing to speed up my workflow.
That's great! Hybrid workflow is lots of fun and gets good results. It's not that hard to do recalls either. I usually take a lot of photos of settings when I mix hybrid. There can be challenges to it but there are also challenges with working entirely in the box.
Thank you! Finally someone answered my question
I love mixing with a console and also using a good DAW with some pluginsm Using them together is very powerful and sounds great! Thanks for watching!
Thanks man
Great job and very informative.
Thank you! I am really glad my videos are helpful. I enjoy making the videos a lot.
Very good Tutorial, I own a Soundcraft Ghost 24 channel analog inline Mixer and its the version with SMPTE capability but now these days SMPTE is obsolete, well for me it is! Good video man!
Thank you! I had a Ghost for awhile but it was before I started making videos. Great console!
Great vids btw! I’m learning a lot:)
Thank you! I'm always working on ideas for more videos too. You can send me a message on my web site with suggestions as well. Thanks again!
Hey Grady! I really appreciate your videos, very detailed and yet straight to the point!
I have the chance to buy a Soundtracs MRX 34 which I fell in love with and I would use it with my motu 24 I/O. My goal is not only to record through the preamp desk going to separate tracks but also mix the tracks right the way you described in this video. Now my question: the MRX 34 doesn't have tape in/tape out but directs out and line ins. would it be efficient to route the outputs of the audio interface to each channel's line in? i know there's a flip-like button from which you cab choose wheter to make work xlr in or line in. thanks so much and greetings from italy!
The Soundtracs MRX is really nice console and you should be able to use the line inputs for audio interface outputs. If you have 24 outs and more than 24 channels, you can also use the extras for monitoring when recording. I hope that helps and thanks so much for your comment!
thanx for sharing
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks!
You always have great and informative videos. Keep up the nice work and thank you for sharing all these…most appreciated. (Hello from Ohio)
Thank you! I have really enjoyed making videos the last 3 years and I hope to continue making more. I try to make one a week and sometimes manage to make more. I really appreciate your comment and thanks so much for watching!
Great video! One question if you’re still answering:
My Soundcraft K3 Theatre doesn’t have a “Tape In/Out” circuit, but would a “Send/Return” post-EQ circuit accomplish the same goal?
I’ve used that board to record signal into my DAW, but I’ve never had the fully integrated setup (ie once I’ve recorded, the faders don’t control the mix) and I’m really trying to get that accomplished this year. The only thing holding me back at the moment is figuring out how to use the faders and outboard gear post-tracking.
I think you should be able to use the line inputs. It may require some re-patching between tracking and mixing but it's probably the best way without having to make custom insert cables or snakes. Patchbays are helpful and I like the cheap Samson models for the money.
@@TwinCreekAudio alright makes sense to me. I was hoping there might be a way in which I don’t have to re-patch between stages, but that’s not a deal breaker by any means.
Thanks for the response!
@@BradsGonnaPlay happy to help! Best of luck
Great video! You should make a video of the soundcraft signature 22 mtk, since that is the (in my opinion) best hybrid combination of digital/analog mixing thats availleble today, and at a very modest price! Keep up the good work!
I think those have the same EQ as my Sapphyre. I'd love to test one out.i really wish they had inserts on the channels but other than that it looks cool! I'll try to do a video as soon as I have the extra money to get one.
Good info is there any devices that can be used to add to a interface to make multiple outs for universal audio Apollo. Thank you.
Yes, the Apollo interfaces except the 16 have ADAT optical I/O that can be used to add more analog outputs from the DAW. The least expensive option is something line the Behringer ADA8200 which has balanced XLR outputs and can also be used as a bank of 8 extra preamps. There are a lot of different examples of ADAT interfaces like this. Higher end units like the Lynx or Ferrofish will do the same at even better quality.
You have the best hybrid mixing videos I've seen on here. Thank you. The only thing I can't seem to find anything on is routing from an audio interface to an analog mixer then routing the individual tracks out, but i heard you mention it for a second earlier in the video. Do you have a video on this or any tips? Everything seems to be interface to mixer then stereo output back to interface.
I don't know if I have a video specific to routing signals out of the console for hybrid mixing but I have one about recording from an analog console into an interface. Can you explain more about what you're wanting to accomplish?
Here are several videos I've made that might be useful:
ua-cam.com/video/qEjg7h9iOqE/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/_S8IEMEp_FY/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/OlMjnQP58nU/v-deo.html
Hope this helps and let me know more specifics and I can try to answer your question better or maybe even make a video addressing that specific topic. Thanks so much for your comment!
@@TwinCreekAudio thank you for getting back. I actually already watched all those videos lol. But what I’m specifically wondering about is if I can route my individual tracks out of the mixer to a separate summing mixer before sending the stereo print back to the interface.
Also was curious about sending individual tracks back to interface instead of printing each track one by one back in. Want to use my DAW as a tape machine, but still trying to grasp exactly what I’m able to do and what I can’t do for the most versatility.
You should be able to do either of those things. You might connect the subgroup outputs to a summing mixer. That would allow you to send groups of tracks from the buses to summing inputs. You you can balance the levels with the subgroup faders. This would require patching the subgroup outputs to summing inputs and recoding the summing outputs. You may also be able to use the inserts to send individual tracks out and back in. There might be latency issues this way however. Certain mixers with audio interfaces built in are setup better for his kind of thing but it's possible with good latency compensation.
@@TwinCreekAudio awesome. Thank you again. Was reading a bit on the latency issues of going from daw to mixer to daw with individual tracks. And if I have direct outputs on my mixer I can just use those instead of the subgroups or inserts correct?
@@KennedyBetts yes, you can definitely use the direct outputs as well. I suggested the subgroups mainly because most summing mixers will have eight inputs and most consoles will have eight buses. You can definitely also use the direct outs to send an individual track out of the console.
So you mentioned connecting the mixer to the inputs. I'm curious on how you would do that. Did you ever make that video explaining that process?
ua-cam.com/video/OlMjnQP58nU/v-deo.html
This video goes more into the connections that need to be made for Hybrid mixing. Hope that helps and thanks so much for watching!
how u monitoring while mixing? from LRbus on analog desk or from DAW POST fader? where u plug u monitors there?
Most of the time, I monitor through console 2bus to the consoles monitor outputs that are connected to my 2 sets of monitors. I don't really monitor though the DAW at all with my setup unless I'm mixing entirely in the box. Then that gets routed straight to the audio interface outputs to the monitors.
Thank a ton!!!!!!! This is what I want to do in my studio, I'm just in my "Studio Planning stage" right now, but This helps my confusion on the signal chain. FINALLY!!!!!! found a video for it Thank you again!! QUESTION.... Your just taking the main R/L outs from mixing console back to Audio Interface????
Yes, I will run the master outs from the console back into a pair of inputs. I can either do this with the same interface or use a separate recording rig. Sometimes I have to do that in order to get proper audio in some of the mixing videos. I am really glad the video helped. I have a new video coming this weekend covering more about hybrid mixing so look for that one as well. Thanks again!
@@TwinCreekAudio Thanks for the response,, How do you have your Mics, Guitars, etc.. connected?? Into channels on the mixing console or straight to inputs on the audio interface??
@@TwinCreekAudio Thanks for the response,, How do you have your Mics, Guitars, etc.. connected?? Into channels on the mixing console or straight to inputs on the audio interface??
@@chrisrsp2025 mics usually go through the console preamps with the direct out of the channels connected to audio interface inputs. I basically have it set up the way an analog studio would have been with the DAW connected like it's a tape machine. I'll also use some outboard preamps for certain things. All the audio interface outputs go to the console channels for monitoring and mixing. I rarely ever use the preamps in the audio interfaces that have them though my main interfaces don't have preamps only line level inputs and outputs.
@@TwinCreekAudio Thank You I think I got all the connections I need lol!!!
Excellent explenation
Thank you! I made two videos about this subject but I think this one is the better one of the two.
Hi great informative video! I also basically want to use my daw as a ‘tape machine’ however I have a Soundcraft K2 desk and it doesn’t have tape return sockets. It does have ‘insert’ sockets for each channel so can those be used to input from the DAW to mix using the desk?
It should have line inputs so you shouldn't have to use the inserts. Just connect the audio interface outputs to the line inputs. That should allow you to mix through the console.
@@TwinCreekAudio ok thanks however I can do this using separate tracks not used for recording but I was hoping to use the same tracks for mixing with some sort of ‘flip’ switch for monitoring as some other desks have this function
@lcoiro the K2 was designed for live sound and doesn't have dual audio paths for the channels. You can use one group of channels for the send to the audio interface and another to receive from the audio interface though. There is nothing to flip on a K2 so there's no switch for it. Each channel has a line input or mic input and only one can be used at a time. On an inline style recording console, you'd have a main and monitor audio path for each channel. One sends to tape and one returns from tape. Sound reinforcement consoles usually do not have this functionality but there are ways to work around it.
@@TwinCreekAudio ok that’s what I thought so yes I will probably split the 40 channels on this desk in half with 20 dedicated for recording into the daw and the other 20 dedicated for mixing out of the daw
@@lcoiro that should work well for you and the K2 is a great sounding console.
So most of the time the songs are recorded into a DAW. Whether that’s software instruments or tracking something like guitar? Then you take each DAW track signal path back to the console to mix.. once mixed, you will re-record a new 2 track back into the DAW in order to burn CD or upload as a mp3 (as an example)? I only ask as I have been an “in the box” person but from the old school that treasures that “analog” sound. Is this a proper way to get that analog sound? Even if, let’s say, a software synth was used as a part of the original DAW track?
Yes, can usually send a software synth out of an audio interface channel and into a mixing console without an issue. I have my DAW set up like a tape machine with a recording console so each channel goes to an interface input and each interface outputs goes to a tape return channels on the console. This way I can track multiple things at once with console channels and mix back through the console once everything is recorded. You can also record everything into the interface directly and then re patch to mix through a console. Ive made quite a few videos about how to set this up and how it works. The 3 most popular are probably
ua-cam.com/video/RWmxkO2gnOs/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/eTXepnLPnLc/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/OlMjnQP58nU/v-deo.html
A lot of the other hybrid mixing videos also have information about how to work this way. Hope that helps and let us know if you have any questions.
Thanks for this video. I have one for you. I have two mixers a Tascam Model 12 and a Soundcraft 12 MTK mixer. My main goal is to take tracks from my daw to the analog mixer (soundcraft) for saturation/warmth and then back in to Logic. Any benefit to using the Tascam for anything? Or should I just get the output signal from the Soundcraft USB channels? So confusing! 🫤
As those are both mixers with built in audio interfaces, I don't see any benefit to using both at the same time. For hybrid mixing, I'd probably use the Soundcraft unless the Tascam Model 12 has inserts where the MTK does not. If you're using a Mac, you may be able to create an aggregate device to use both mixers audio interfaces but then you'd have to do some creative routing in the analog domain to merge the analog side of using both. My advice would be to keep it simple. It saves time and make the creative process of mixing easier. The Soundcraft should provide the analog saturation you're looking for on it's own if you're mixing DAW tracks back through it.
@@TwinCreekAudio I really appreciate your response and it makes great sense! I’m going to go all in on the MTK! I need to keep things simple.. it hinders my creative process. Thanks again!
@@mixxndj Glad to help. Good luck!
I've got a soundtracks solo midi that I use with a prism orpheus, I have a few analogue hardware plugged in from the ins and outs of the console to the interface, i can hear the processing the question is how do I record the processors that are connected to the ins and out of the console?, I've pressed down mix (flip) and buss I have the 2track in also, mix out is connected to the speakers, what else should I do?
You can record insert effects by running through the channel and out of the direct outputs to an interface input. Aux send effects will be more difficult as you'll need to record the output of the effects processors. Hybrid mixing using the console might be more efficient for your needs.
So I should go from the out of the analogue to the in of the console then the out of the console to the in of the interface?
@@elmajesty pretty much it's just console outputs either direct outs or subgroup to audio interface inputs and audio interface outputs to console tape or line inputs.
ua-cam.com/video/9dZPhlCSDL0/v-deo.html
Check this video out. I think it has more of what you're asking about
What type of console are you using in your studio? I would like to have 32-48 channels, What are you working with?
I'm running a 44 channel Soundcraft Sapphyre with 24 channels being used for the digital IO and another 16 for the Tascam 16 track. There are quite a few videos about the Sapphyre on my channel. Great console for a hybrid studio.
Here's the playlist for the Soundcraft Sapphyre
ua-cam.com/play/PL7RglGSkQqfHMhcJMGn6GZXXnLM9WFMdu.html
Hi, great video, thanks, but are your NS10,s round the wrong way? Can you talk us through that please?
They are turned that way to place the tweeters closer together. In my room, the NS10s are placed outside the other set of monitors so they are set this way to bring them in tighter so the sweet spot in close to the same for the KRKs(now replaced with Tannoy). Bass frequencies are less directional than highs so this placement works well in my room. The NS10s are placed farther apart than I would like but having them reversed like the helps stereo imaging even with them farther apart than I I would like.
Hey There, I’m buying a topaz project 8 console for €100
I’m using a MacBook Pro M1 chip ..what interface do you recommend or old one that is compatible with these MacBooks? I want to use at least 16 channels 🎉 now I have a Scarlett 18i8 3gen. Thank you for all the videos you made. Very helpful. I’m new to mixing out of the box .
The MOTU 16a with an additional interface with ADAT would be solid system that would sound great too. Another option would be the RME Digiface with 3 ADAT optical capable converters. Even something inexpensive like the 3 Behringer ADA8200 with the Digiface would work and be expandable to 32 with a other ADAT interface later.
would an ssl six be a good starting point for mixing to an interface because it has send and returns on the back?
It should be an excellent choice. I've not tried one myself but the features look to be excellent for hybrid mixing.
@@TwinCreekAudio thanks
I do think you need to be careful telling people that audio is “tossed out” when mixing digital. Most if not all DAWs these days use 32 bit floating point bit rates and proper dithering in every step. Because of this, digital mixing is actually perfectly linear and will always have less noise, distortion, and degradation than the digital converters, op amps, etc in the signal path of an analog setup, which also has unnecessary digital conversions. I do however see the benefits of an analog desk with regards to outboard effects and workflow
I see your point and I believe this video is the only time I mentioned anything about it. I also think I said it was just a theory but it's been awhile and I could be mistaken. Most of my professional work has been done in the box so I like working digital and recall is much better with a DAW.
Is it possible to send a multitrack recording to my console, mix the song on the console, and then record/(dub) all mixed tracks to the Daw again? In stead of recording it to a main L,R?
I think you could probably do that but it sounds like you'd just be mixing it twice. I think maybe what you're wanting to do is to send each individual track out through a strip on the console and back into the DAW. In this sense you wouldn't actually be mixing it on the console, you would just be sending each individual tracks through the console circuitry and recording them back into the DAW to mix in the DAW later. Mixing on the console then sending it back into the DAW would be like a hybrid mix. So if you take that and send it back into the DAW then mix again, It seems like you'd be mixing something that was already mixed. Maybe I misunderstanding the approach you were trying to take though. Pretty much anything is possible if you have the right gear. I guess I'm just confused about the reason you'd want to work this way. If you are just wanting the console sound on the individual tracks like a console plug-in would do, then you would just send each track out through a console channel strip and then record that strips direct out back into another track on the DAW. The other thing you can do is sub mix groups of tracks together through the console and then take those sub mixes and perform the final mix of your analog sub mixes in the DAW for the final 2 track mix. This is the closest to your original question I think.
Brilliant video thank you. I have one question, I am novice to the hybrid mixing. My DAW of choice is also Reaper, even using the same Imperial skin as you do. Console is MIDAS 32ch. So for routing each individual hardware output pair I need to open - ROUTE - manu, and uncheck -MASER SEND-? Only track that should be routed to Reaper -MASER SEND-, is final mixdown that is coming back from the consoles Main Mix outs?
If I want to route Kick and Snare as mono track, should I select output pair 1-2, and pan them in Reaper hard left and right, or maybe Reaper can split output pairs, as two individual outs 1, and out 2?
If you put some plugin as insert FX in track before outputting that channel to the console, how do you compensate for latency of that plugin? Did Reaper synchronize and compensate automatically for all plugins?
Is it possible to route something like Sonarworks room correction plugin on the Reaper -Mater Channel-, and monitoring thru it in real time while you mixing and EQ-ing on the consoles hardware onboard EQs?
Thanks.
Sorry on my bad English.
You are doing this correctly already so yes the mixdown track would be the only one router to main mix. I monitor from the console while printing the mix and then listen to the mixdown track afterwards but I think can monitor though Reaper if you turn on monitoring on the mixdown channel. You should be able to use Sonarworks this way too. Reaper should allow you to route individual tracks to a single mono output no panning necessary. You are really on the right track and I'll post more about this soon. Thank you so much for your great question.
@@TwinCreekAudio Thank you very much. You've been very helpful. Looking forward for more amazing hybrid mixing tutorials. Subscribed.
I wonder how many outputs/inputs you connected from "the box" to that huge Soundtracs console. And if there are a lot: tell me how.
The direct outputs on all 24 channels connect to the inputs of 2 audio interfaces for recording. Then the 24 audio interface outputs connect to the 24 tape inputs on the console. These are normally going to the small monitor controls on the channels(for monitor mixes while recording) but can be flipped to the main channels for mixing. I made a video a few years ago that shows the entire setup process. Hopefully that will help.
ua-cam.com/video/OlMjnQP58nU/v-deo.htmlsi=JCVqjMLBEg7ZuJ8P
And here's another one
ua-cam.com/video/RWmxkO2gnOs/v-deo.htmlsi=ZOPtNEg5MuZ4UoQ-
Great video. How do you deal with latency when going out and back in again. Or you just send everything so all is delayed equally?
There really are no latency issues since everything is being sent out at the same time during playback through the console. I use a separate interface a lot for the videos to capture the mix. I could use inputs on the same interface as well without an issue depending on how I'm monitoring. There are a lot of different configurations I have to use to make the videos for this channel and some of its a bit complicated to explain. I was thinking of making a video about how it's done as I sometimes have to tap the control room outputs from the console instead of the main mix if I'm soloing things. There are quite a few tricks to it but I haven't found latency to be an issue working this way as long as I'm mindful of how I have things routed so that I don't have a direct signal and a signal that has been delayed by the interface combined anywhere. That's a really good question and very interesting to discuss. Thank you!
@@TwinCreekAudio Thanks for the fast reply! :) I have been trying to solve this, when sending just a singular track to outboard, so that they still line up perfectly in reaper when coming back in, but sadly the latency compensation in reaper doesnt get it totally right, so i have used the RTL Utility software (free) to ping the latency delay, and then have the compensation in reaper manually set to that value. This works great, but sadly has to be done manually.
(Reainsert has a ping function, but doesnt work perfectly)
But if you only print the stereo file coming out of the console, then i guess that is a none issue. (Or all direct outs)
What do you do if your mixer doesn’t have what’s needed to support this process??
If it has line inputs and multiple channels, it can work. It may or may not enhance the sound depending on the mixer. Analog mixing consoles with studio features are pretty inexpensive used now though so maybe you can find a more suitable mixing console.
Can I run my 24ch mixer to the 24c (2i/2o) in the daw, then run the effects back to the board. Is there something I should change in the computer
It depends on what type of effects are using. You wouldn't be able to do this with a plugin and only 2i 2o but you could use a rack effects unit fed from the mixers Aux send and back to the effects returns or line inputs of channels. Best of luck!
Was wondering, are you using outputs 1/2 to go into channels in the board that send to main so that you can listen to UA-cam etc? I hate using 2 outputs and 2 channels just for watching UA-cam lol
Lol! I have done that before to watch UA-cam through my studio monitors. Right now I have a smart TV and it's wired directly to my Tannoys so I can watch UA-cam with good audio. I started buying outboard rack reverbs so I didn't have to give up interface outputs for FX returns from the DAW. Plus it gave me an excuse to buy more stuff for my studio. Lol!
so how would a tape machine be integrated to this process? I have a tascam m520, and msr 16. I was wondering if it makes more sense to take the 8 buses from mixdown to the echo audiofire 12. Is this an inferior method or simply different? I've been told to get the "tape" sound, it's better to track to tape and then record into daw. "print'
Using the buses to send to the digital audio interface would add more to signal path than using direct outs. In my setup, I treat the DAW and audio interfaces like they are a tape machine. With your console, I would use patchbays so you can record to tape and monitor from tape or patch the tape machine outputs directly to the audio interface inputs for transfer. You can also use pretty much any other combination such as printing a mix from tape mixed through the console to 2 tracks on tape. I prefer transferring all tracks 1 to 1 from tape to DAW. This doesn't require any synchronization this way like if you wanted to transfer 6 or 8 at a time due to less inputs on the audio interfaces or something. I would connect your interfaces, tape machine and console tape INS and outs to patchbays so you can reconfigure on the fly depending on what you need to do. You can also use an interface and DAW with plugins as an effects processor when mixing from tape so you have access to digital effects plugins while still mixinf analog through the console. I made a video about this:
ua-cam.com/video/FynrfENwZHU/v-deo.html
Hope this helps answer your question. Good luck and let me know how it goes.
@@TwinCreekAudio I hope this isn't an annoying ask, could you type out the channel flow for just one channel. what patch bay would you recommend?
@@TwinCreekAudio thank you for the help!
Hi, thanks for the vid. What type of interface are you using? (Maybe I missed it)
I don't know if I mentioned it in this video. It's a pair of Echo Audiofire 12s. I love them because they work like a tape machine so you have the input signal present at the output to come back to the monitoring section of the console. This is switchable from the Audiofire control mixer. They also sound really good and have been reliable for more than 12 years now. I also have another MOTU setup and an Audient interface but the Audiofire are what I use for the big mixing rig.
Thx for the vid. You just changed my whole set up. My wife says thx! LOL. I always wondered why studios still use old analog mixers. I get it now. I have a 24 chan with direct outs for each chan. How do you suggest I go from that (which is simply the 1/4" unbalanced) into my interface which is all TRS or XLR balanced inputs? 2 are instrument and 6 are line. All 8 are XLR as well. Cheers!
Most interfaces will not care if you connect an unbalanced signal to them. It just unbalances the signal and as long as your cable run isn't too long, I doubt it will cause an issue. The XLRs on the interface are probably for mics and have preamps. Ideally you'd want to connect to 1/4" line inputs but if the XLRs are those combo jacks with 1/4" in the center, they will work fine. You'd want the interface outputs connected to tape returns or line inputs on the mixing console and then the master outs of the mixer connected back to an interface input. Let me know how it goes and if you need anything. Thanks so much and good luck!
@@TwinCreekAudio could you possibly do a vid showing how to patch from the mixer back into the DAW for a final mix? I mean the final main stereo mix like the master bus on the DAW. How would you mix to that and then download to an mp3 or cd?
Is the AF12 the only digital output? If so, I assume you analog mix is of stubs from the DAW.
There are 2 AF12s linked together with 24 outputs so most of them are individual tracks. . Some things are in stereo on 2 channels. Thanks!
Do you use backup output to monitor output??
It's an inline recording console so normally Mix B would be used for the monitor mix. Monitors would connect to the control room output and you select what goes to the control room with the switches in the master section. Full use of this console will require some research and the manual though. It was designed back when tape machines were used so it has many facilities that may not be needed with a DAW so it depends on what you're trying to accomplish.
@@TwinCreekAudio If the speaker is plugged into the mixer console, when Printrack mixdown the volume is correct as stereo Out on DAW ???
Hey there Grady. Thanks for this and your other videos. I am legally blind and working with real gear and having a tactile response is much better for me. I am using a Tascam Digital Portastudio now the DP24 with ART VLA II compressor and the ART MPA II Pre Amp. I like it a lot but the idea of using reaper pretty minimally as a tape machien with outboard gear is real appealing. What are your thoughts on full analog mixer Vs say the Soundcraft SIgnature 22 MTK that uses its own Audio Interface. It seems everything you do is post fader until you print it to 2 channel from what I understand. I would think that would not always be ideal? Sorry.. long winded. I appreciate your work thank you!
Reaper is highly configurable. All keyboard shortcuts can be customized so that should make it very usable for you. Reaper also supports most control surfaces so that might also be beneficial for your workflow. A separate analog console with an audio interface connected to it would allow the most flexibility however the cost and setup time would be much greater than a mixer with an integrated audio interface. Not having pre fader aux sends may not be a problem when you can do so much in the DAW itself for example. Best of luck and let me know if you have other questions.
@@TwinCreekAudio Thanks a lot. some things to save up for. I was looking at the Soundcraft FX16II that looks good with inputs on every channel. I do use a dark theme when using reaper but I need to look into the shortcuts and maybe an interface. I see there are some cheap ones that people like a lot.
@@kevmay21 there are a lot of excellent choices in audio interfaces these days. Many people like the Behringer ADA8200 for adding more inputs and outputs to and from their consoles and that might save some money.
I was told by a sweetwater tech that you come out of the outputs on your mixer into inputs on the interface. So now I’m confused!!
It depends on the type of mixer. Recording consoles have either direct outs or subgroups that go to inputs on a recording device and also tape returns for receiving signals back from the device for mixing. It's a different workflow than most audio interface/laptop setups. The master output of the console would go back to inputs on an audio interface to capture a mix made in the console back to a digital file. There is a lot to understanding all the signal flow arrangements and their use cases.
@@TwinCreekAudio I’m working with a Yamaha MG32x mixer and a Scarlett focusrite 18i20 using reaper also
@@seabreese147 going from mixer outputs to the inputs of an audio interface would be for recording. For mixing, you would use the line inputs or tape inputs to mix through the console and then send the main LR out back into the audio interface to capture the console mix.
So what’s the difference between tape in and line in ?
Essentially there is no difference electronically. They are both technically line inputs, with tape returns having a different name and different usage. Tape returns are usually found on consoles designed for studio use with a tape machine, ADAT or any multitrack with multiple inputs and outputs. The idea is that with a recording console, you have the main mix and a monitor mix so your recording levels aren't affected by the monitor mix since it's independent from the input signal being recorded. Then there are too different types of recording consoles, inline and split. On an inline console's the tape returns are physically integrated into the main channels strips while on a split design, they would appear in their own section above the bus masters or elsewhere to the sides of the main channels. There are a lot of variations on console design but the main idea is that a recording console will have tape returns with an independent mix for them. The main channels being used for tracking to the recording device and the tape returns for listening back. This way, the recording levels going to the recording device aren't affected when the singer wants to hear himself louder in the headphones. These days, tape returns aren't used as often since the monitor mix can be done in the box.
@@TwinCreekAudio thanks for the response and explanation. I ask because I just got into the analog world and was able to obtain a Tascam 2600 mkII. On the back of the console it shows a line and tape for each individual channel .
@@erictorres5935 the Tascam is a pretty good console. It's an inline design to the tape input on each channel would go to a control integrated into the main channel. Should be labeled something like monitor or on a Mackie mix B. This feeds an independent master section usually called monitor which can also be merged with the main mix so the tape returns can be used as additional line inputs on nixdown. The line inputs on the channels probably override the mic inputs when something is plugged into them. I think the manual should still be available from Tascam's website for that model. You might check that out or check out some of my soundtracs Topaz videos for a console with a similar design. Hope that is helpful and good luck! Feel free to comment again if you have any other questions or need clarification on something you see in your search.
@@TwinCreekAudio thanks for the response once again . Possibly we can set up a time for a 1 on 1 about the routing of this console .
@@erictorres5935 I'll see if I can track down a manual for that one. I've never owned or used the M2600 though I used to have the earlier M3500.
As mentioned before too, the on board preamps on a lot of these old consoles are as good if not better than a lot of the on-board pre you get with the interfaces. They are a bargain for that alone. One question though, when you get a set of outboard eq or a compressor. As you can't run everything through it when you mix through the console, do you commit to it on the way in while you track it? If you track a whole band though, you need to decide.
Great question! Usually I will not print compression or EQ. I attempt to get the sound right at the source and commit just the actual sound and of course the sound of the chosen microphone and preamp. Sometimes I will print things with compression in cases where I am am working mostly analog and don't have enough compressors. I'll also use a combination of plugins and hardware at times though it can make gain staging tricky. There are ways to make it worK though. When you're sending something through the console, either it is already compressed or EQ applied in software then goes through the console or the pure sound is sent through the console and EQ is applied there and comorssiom from hardware on the inserts It can get tricky when doing both so just remember the order of each part of the signal chain ITB and in the console so you can evalaute the order of EQ, compression and other processing to your preference If you must print anything with compression, make sure not to use too much. I like keeping my options open for when I mix but having good sounds to work with. I agree that a lot of the preamps in older consoles have more character and can potentially sound better than the preamps in the average audio interface. I like using any of the old mixers and things like that for the unique sound as I enjoy doing things differently. Everyone is trying to use Neve style preamps while I'm over here using Fostex, Soundcraft, Interface Electronics and RTS Systems preamps and other uncommon things.
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Bro should i buy a behringer multicom 4400 for 40 bucks
That's a good price for 4 channels of compression but I have never used that model. The Composers sound pretty good and similar to a Drawmer model from the 90s. This may be a stripped down version of the same circuit so might be worth checking out.
@@TwinCreekAudio I just bought a dod sr866 in mint condition. Guy said he barely used it. Also 40 bucks
2:00 I’m sorry but this has no sense to it. Why can’t you sum 16 tracks together without losing data? You just say “there’s no way” with no explanation. The only thing I could possibly think of is losing bit depth, because you have to lower the volume of your tracks so they don’t clip on the master bus.
That simply isn’t an issue though. With 24 bit audio that wasn’t an issue, and now with 32 bit floating point, it has absolutely 0 effect.
Good point for discussion. Thank you. How do 16X24 bit 48kHz audio files get combined into 1 stereo 24 bit 48kHz file without some data being lost? With each of the 16 files being theoretically 30 MB each and the resulting stereo file being 42 MB, how is this done without data being lost somewhere? Where the additional data in the file go? I'm just curious and wondering myself. The only thing that I've seen that makes any sense is the algorithm of the DAW and there is a lot of controversy around whether those sound different as well. I also wonder why I can never get nearly as much headroom inside a DAW as I can on an analog console. Like I said, I am not a scientist so I don't really know. I just have my opinion and explained it how it occured to me. I'd be really happy if someone could explain it better. Also, I do like digital audio and mixing in the box. It saves a lot of time having the recall of the project. I really appreciate your comment. It is a lot to think about.
people laugh when they see the mixer .... I love mixing analog ,,, twisting knobs ... sliding fader's ... pushing buttons ..all part of the creative proses... mixing in the computer always seems to have a delayed reaction ...also sounds like high end distortion ... analog mixing is a lot warmer and its all hands on ,,, 🐷
I agree. I prefer the workflow of a console and I find it easier to get a good mix.