Another thing that plays into the subversion of Aerith's character is how she ends up being played vs. her surface-level "class." So Aerith is traditional considered a white mage, with healing and other supportive abilities, however with the materia system in FF7 anyone can have any spell meaning that you can take advantage of her insainly high magic stat to be an absolute nuker. Additionally, her limits are support-based, like restoring HP or MP or granting invincibility; however, this allows Aerith to run more offensive materia since she can worry less about supporting the party because of her limits. She's not just the white mage of the party, she's black mage aswell.
@@bleakcentuar98 That is a really cool point. I admit that I don’t normally have her in my party because I prefer Cloud, Tifa, and Yuffie’s play styles, so I didn’t know those nuances. I had heard that she gets almost game breaking powerful, so thanks for bringing that to my attention. That is a really cool detail and subversion that I absolutely missed 😅
Now i have DBZA moment stuck in my head thanks to this white/black mage talk. Aerith heals Tifa: "ive healed you. i'm a nice girl." Tifa: "and whats to stop me from punching you for that snide remark?" Aerith: "Because if you touch me, your not getting back up again. that's right i'm your white mage. and nobody fu&@!s with the white mage-" Sephiroth Stabs Aerith* Sephiroth: "Oh i feel real good about myself right now. "
I love how inspiring and complex both of these characters are in their own distinct ways. Artists, writers, and musicians can all learn a great deal by analyzing what makes both of them so effective in storytelling, and this video is a great tool to do so.
Great video! Really appreciate the time and effort you took to research these two heroines, their development, and their respective roles! Btw, neat detail: Aerith’s flower on her choker has five petals, while the reunion lily has six so people have identified Aer’s necklace as the Forget-Me-Not flower. Incidentally, that’s the flower that’s on Aer’s stationary that she used to write Zack her letters… 😭😭😭 Can’t wait to watch your other videos after the quality of this one!
@@jenniferchough Ooh! Thanks for sharing that neat detail with me! I love learning about the languages of flowers, so I think that’s really neat. The forget-me-not does really suit her and her relationship with Zack. I’m wanting to play Crisis Core next, so I’m looking forwards to seeing more subtle details like that when it comes to them. ☺️ Thank you for your comment and for liking my video. It makes me so happy to connect with you all over this game and talk about cool details like this ☺️
@@SNWSTORM oh hey I noticed you had some scenes clips with Korean subs and was wondering and then I read you’d been living in Korea as of recent times! That’s really cool; I’m currently in Korea, working, but will move back to the States soon. I was just pleasantly surprised to hear you had lived here! Anyway, glad to see your channel was highly recommended to us on Twitter and I look forward to seeing your future ideas and thoughts in more videos.
@ 어머! That’s so cool! Yeah, I taught English there for 4 1/2 years. Remake came out during that time, so I got the Korean/Japanese version but still English audio. Rebirth came out while I was still there, but I was preparing to move at that time. That’s so cool that you’re there currently. I really miss Korea, so that makes me happy. I haven’t been on Twitter in a long time, so that makes me happy that my channel was shared there. Thank you! I’m more excited to put out more videos now ☺️
Another awesome video, I’m so glad you brought up the true story behind Tifa and Aerith’s creations. It’s something not a lot of fans are even aware of. I remember when I first heard about it and how often I wondered in an alternate universe where the ff7 developers didn’t spit the original concept into two characters (Tifa & Aerith) and how different the story would have been. Ultimately I’m so glad we live the universe where they have both Tifa and Aerith as separate characters.
@@vakermaker Absolutely. It’s something that either fans aren’t aware of or they twist it to suit their narrative. But yeah, I totally agree with you. It would be a different story and I think it’s really cool and quite genius for them to split the heroine into two.
@@SNWSTORM unfortunately most fans still think that Tifa was only created after the FF7 developers had decided to kill off Aerith when in actuality that’s only partially correct and to be fair I even thought so too until I learned the truth that a character named Tifa was originally gonna be given Aerith’s backstory before the developers split this character into 2 characters. now based on what I also learned awhile ago. I’m not sure you heard about this or not but at some point after they had split the heroine into two characters, there’s a possibility that Tifa believe it or not wasn’t even going to be a playable character. She’s still a martial artist and a bartender but she would have had a minor role in the story. She’d be associated with Avalanche but would only be a support from behind-the-scenes. And her and Cloud would still know each other from childhood but get this: on her back she would have a large scar she got from Cloud but she has no memory of the event. But as fate would have it, after it was decided that Aerith would die in the story, Tifa was give more prominence to and the devs made Tifa a core member of our party in ff7. Here’s a video that goes into better detail on the situation: ua-cam.com/video/M44VAid2650/v-deo.html And here’s something that a gives an early description of Tifa that helps back the information given in that video: thelifestream.net/lifestream-projects/translations/2002/early-material-file-character-files-p-518-of-the-final-fantasy-vii-ultimania-omega/
@@vakermaker I had heard of the idea to have Tifa have a large scar on her back from Cloud, but they changed it. I didn’t know the other details though. I’m glad that it was changed and Tifa was given a bigger story and role. I’ll check the videos out. Thanks for the recommendation.
@@vakermaker it probably would have been something akin to the story in FF8 but with the overall plot remaining the same but without Zacks exitence, so Cloud probably would have been an actual SOLDIER. Squall = Cloud, Rinoa = Tifa/Aerith before the split. Seifer = Sephiroth. Ultimecia = Jenova
@@littledreaamer Absolutely! I’ve actually had an experience recently where Tifa’s example in particular helped me help a friend through a very scary situation. I hope we can all have moments in our lives where we can be like Tifa or Aerith to someone else.
This was a fantastic video! It's really great to see these characters explained so comprehensively. Well researched and evidenced and if more people understood what FFVII is actually seeking to accomplish, they could understand this story without undermining it. In general, the subversions of FFVII and how they are used within these two primary conflicts are what make it some of the most brilliant storytelling ever. One thing I would add to the discussion of the internal vs external natures of these characters is how Aerith functions so much more as a meta character. She is consistently, going back to the OG, used to deliver messages to the player/audience, but in very subtle and nuanced ways (not like Deadpool XD). Whereas Tifa is used within the parameters of the story's four walls, particularly in her relationships with the other characters and of course her role within the internal plot. Keep up the great work, I will be checking out more of your content!
@@somebodysnightmare That is such a cool point that I didn’t even think about. There is absolutely a meta element to it. Aerith is absolutely external to the point of subtle 4th wall breaking and Tifa is strictly internal to the game. Such brilliant work from Square. Thanks for bringing that up and for loving my video. I decided to make a video like this because I noticed that certain people who think similar to me notice these subversions and intricate style of storytelling, while a whole other part of the fandom completely misses it in order to validate what they believe the story to be. I felt like it was a serious disservice not only to the story and the developers, but to these beloved characters. And there’s so many misunderstandings that I really wanted to clear up because it makes me sad to see what people reduce Tifa and Aerith to. I’m so glad that there are people like you who see this too and we can all talk about it. There’s so much artistry to this game that needs to be appreciated. So thank you! 🙏
Thank you for your analysis! It was intelligent, thoughtful and insightful in its delivery. Definitely subscribing, and looking forward to viewing your other videos! Appreciate your time and effort, and hope you have a happy new year! 🎉
Brace yourself, because this might be a long comment! Unsure if you'll even read it, but I felt like sharing anyways, as I feel I have a somewhat... curious perspective on these two characters and even the LTD. I'm a curious case because my favorite FF character of all time is probably OG FF7's Tifa, but in Remake, Aerith takes the crown easily for me as being the most interesting (OG Tifa is still my overall favorite character of the series, but I will explain why I think they have done her a bit dirty in Remake). I took some time thinking why that is, since they aren't all that different in the Remake, and while I go back and forth on the reasons why this is (including, perhaps, me simply resonating differently with each character in a different time of my life, which, interestingly enough, proved to be untrue, as I played both recently and I still see myself gravitating towards Tifa being a better character overall in OG FF7 and Aerith being better overall in Remake), I think I know why -- and it has to do, mostly, with the LTD. See, in the original, I felt that Aerith was always the obvious choice for Cloud regarding the LTD. Don't crucify me yet, let me explain. Back in 1999-ish (I'm old, OK), the consensus was mostly that Aerith was the love interest and Tifa was the unrequited love. Even arguing in favor of Tifa online was met with some abrasive responses from FF7 fans in general. But, this is precisely why I loved Tifa: although her story and background was deeply connected to Cloud, she was basically her own person. She wasn't the perceived love interest, but yet, she drawn me anyways, by being this positive, selfless, caring and strong character. Tifa even being perceived as a love interest by Cloud was almost entirely player dependant, with several key scenes requiring you to "go out of your way" to favor Tifa over Aerith (my young self, despite always liking Tifa more, for example, never knew she was an option at the GS date, I only got Aerith! It was only when I bought a gaming magazine that I understood this mechanic and went for it!). Aerith, on the other hand, was always tied to Cloud, pushing him, urging him, which, I'll admit, is fun and cute on it's own, but it always felt like she was trying too hard and that was her whole thing, like: chill gurl. Her most interesting side was, by leaps and bounds, her Cetra heritage. And only after her death, she becomes infinitely more interesting as a character. Actually, no, after she takes it to herself to go after Sephiroth is when she becomes more interesting. Since, technically, OG FF7 already happened in Remake and we are experiencing something sorta like a sequel (well, at least for Aerith and Sephiroth), Aerith is still the same Aerith that we knew in OG FF7, including her death, she is still an evolving character from that point in time, everyone else though, reseted. Her goal now, from the get go, is to stop Sephiroth, she is basically the main character. Instead of pushing and urging Cloud, she pushes and urges everyone, all the while she is keeping her own desires and wants in check so things can proceed according to "her plan" (when she says stuff like "Please, don't fall in love with me", we know she doesn't mean it, but she can't help the heartache and suffering again, not for herself and specially not for Cloud: She knows she will die), well, at least until she starts to forget stuff. She kind of betrays her own words more than once, though, all Cloud has to do is make a little push or give her a little attention and she quickly falls head over heels. This is interesting because Aerith here takes the role which I, in the OG, firstly attributed to Tifa: She is not the obvious love interest. She will die. She can't be. She is her own person aside from Cloud and she is much more interesting for it. Likewise, Tifa kinda of slipped into OG Aerith: She is the obvious love interest, she has the abrasive fanbase and they kinda push her needlessly to Cloud in several original scenes. A neat detail that always made me admire OG Tifa (and still does) as a character was regarding the date mechanic: In Don Corneo's Mansion, if you say to Tifa "Are you OK?" when Aerith gets picked, she actually berates you and your points with her GO DOWN! The only way to make her points go up in this instance is to rush directly to Aerith, because Tifa just cares that much more about other people rather than herself or her own feelings... something the Remake seemed to miss. In Remake she confides in Cloud about the bombing mission, something OG Tifa would never do, she would not bother anyone with her feelings, specially not at that point in time; she cries on his shoulder about Sector 7, something she also would not do; she confronts Cloud head on about her memories, something OG Tifa would never do, for better or worse; she shows (playful, but real) jealousy towards Aerith, something she didn't do at all in OG, not even when Cait Sith splurted out that Aerith and Cloud belonged together in the OG, right to her face! In the GS date, there was no awkward kiss that didn't get mentioned at all later on, she just couldn't open up. She choked. Yet, she was happy with that moment. It made total sense. Tifa was, by all intents and purposes, a "locked heart". Deeply and through and through. Only when she vowed to search for the real Cloud in the Lifestream is that she started to open up, it had meaning behind this change in her personality. She was evolving to be more open. After all, her being so closed off is, partially, what cause Cloud to spiral and she wouldn't have it anymore. See, I have OG Tifa in such a high standard that I can't help but feel a bit... well, disappointed with how she was treated in the Remake. She is too emotional, too clingy, too fan-servicey (all of these are debatable, of course, it's only my interpretation). Although, I will give you this: She has SEVERAL cute moments with Cloud! But they are all with Cloud -- perhaps a few handful with Aerith (and these are far more interesting). I feel -- like I said before -- that Remake Tifa occupies the same place OG Aerith had (and still has) when I first played FF7: I like her, but she falls short on the excellency of being like OG Tifa, which is, to this date, my favorite FF character of all time. Remake Aerith coming close in second place now! So, to sum this all up: I feel like Tifa and Aerith are funny and cute when they interact with Cloud, but I feel that they are at their strongest when they exist outside the LTD. And OG Tifa and Remake Aerith are simply better written outside of Cloud and their relationship with him. They are more focused, they have more purpose and are, all in all, more coherent than their inferior counterparts (Remake Tifa and OG Aerith, IMO). OG Tifa cares about Cloud deeply, is all about abnegation, she feels deeply, but she would NEVER let her emotions get in the way of her goals, and being with Cloud wasn't exactly a goal, only that he would be safe and happy; likewise Remake Aerith, she cares deeply about Cloud, is all about abnegation, she feels deeply as well, but she never lets her emotions get in the way of her goals, and being with Cloud isn't her goal, only that he is safe and happy (see how they switched their personalities up a bit?). And just for the sake of clarity: I also have a... well, curious view on the LTD. I feel like Cloud loves both girls, the one being favored depending on the player. And even though there is no confirmation and there will NEVER be, because that's how the creators want to keep this story, I feel like Cloud eventually moves on from Aerith to be with Tifa (**if** you even pursued Aerith, that is). Not because Tifa is a "consolation prize", but rather because their relationship evolves to that point eventually. And let's face it, Aerith would love that, for Cloud to be happy. :)
You are putting your own feelings into the character of Cloud. Cloud, the character, never displays any romantic interest in Aerith in neither OG or the remakes, that is all her own doing + the narrative pushing them into romantic tropes. Why? Because it made her murder halfway through the game shocking and unexpected because you, the player, is supposed to think she was the "true" love interest when playing for the first time. And after her death is when Clouds true past is revealed, with his fractured mind having created a persona based on Zack, Aeriths lost lover and that Cloud always was in love with Tifa. The whole Aerith debate stems from the fact that many scenes that actually explains that Aerith was seeing Zack in Cloud in OG were optional and easy to miss. If you don't go to Gongaga, you won't talk to Zacks parents. If you don't hahe Aerith in your party, she won't talk to them or to Cloud outside their house. If you don't go back to the Nibelheim reactor after the Lifestream sequence, you won't see Zack breaking out Cloud and then dying outside Midgar. Not to mention that kids who played the game missunderstood the story and then to this day refuse to acknowledge that they got it wrong, even when Zack is litterally on the cover next to Cloud in Rebirth.
I’m not getting into this argument again, since 1999 I deal with shippers from both sides and I know when they are too one-sided to really grasp anything other then their own favored one to understand that there really *is* a LT. And the game is richer for it. Like I said, this really cheapens any debate, and I kind of regret mentioning it, instead of just keeping to the girls. I will just say this: if you think Aerith and Cloud are just in a platonic and sibling-like relationship, let your partner have the same exchanges and interactions they have in the game with someone else while you watch and see how you feel about it. Like I said, for me Cloud and Tifa are endgame. So if you are arguing that they end up together, we can agree on that at least. Have a good day!
@MrCironn it''s not a shipping comment, it's a plot and story comment. If a woman talks to me like Aerith talks to Cloud it doesn't say anyting about my personal feelings on the matter. Johnny hits on Tifa, so that means Tifa is interested in him? That's the argument you're using on Cloud. Again: Look at Clouds responses and reactions to Aerith when she pushes anything that hints of romance on him. He ignored her or litterally tells her to stop. He is not written to be romantically interested in her. Period. There is litterally a quest were Cloud tells her to stop trying to make their quest into a date and it ends with her appologising. Tifa is not the endgame, she's the only game for Cloud. He's written to be in love with Tifa since he was a child. And Aerith isn't in love with Cloud either, she's in love with the man he reminds her of. People who think it is both or Aerith are wrong. It really is NOT a debate.
Again, I will not delve into this debate. If you think Tifa and Johnny’s relationship is even in the slightest way comparable to Aerith and Cloud’s you are just too far gone.
That was a fantastic video and indeed the subversion can even be felt with other characters and through designs as well The fact that the monk role has been portrayed by big muscular dudes in the previous ff games only for ff7 to give the role to a slim shy and beautiful lady does emphasize the different nature of ff7 even as archery role being portrayed by slim accurate snipers ff7 gave us barret who is muscular and big and his gun is far from accurate It's truly amazing and goes with ff7 from story to characters and so on
@@mohammadalfattal2902 Ooh! That’s a really good point about Berret! I definitely want to show our big lovable guy some love soon. He’s a very fascinating character with a lot of depth and subversions that were especially fleshed out in the retrilogy.
Awesome video and analysis! You've articulated really skillfully my exact sentiments on this topic. If more of the fandom had this well-researched, holistic and nuanced understanding of the characters/story as opposed to just seeing the game through superficial shipping lenses there wouldn't be nearly as much toxicity on social media. Looking forward to upcoming videos!
@@ocean_0602 Thank you so much for saying that! I myself am a Cloti shipper, but that’s not going to override my desire to really dive deep into the story and characters in order to understand them and learn from them. I’m so glad that it’s coming through as I put in a lot of thought and research into it. I’m glad that you feel the same about this topic and so many others as well. It’s really refreshing and amazing to see that I’m not the only one because the insanity that comes out of shippers mouths does clog up a lot of the discussions. It’s such a shame too because this game is so much more than that. I can’t wait to get into other topics dealing with this game like mental health and identity because personally that’s a big draw for me into this compilation. Anyway, thanks for your comment and compliments. It really made my day ☺️
Nice video but i dont understand why u wont mention that Square is heavily influenced by Shakespeare in multiple of their games. Cloud and Aerith is literally Romeo and Juliet. If u ship Cloti that s fine but if u want to claim to do objective video please do objective video. Also in 90s Baywatch with Pamela Anderson was huge global phenomenon and in gaming world Lara Croft in Tomb raider was popular too, they might be real inspiration behind Tifa s body type. I also dont know what mentioned video about fictional love triangle was supposed to be, but devs put lot if stuff in FF7 OG to make sure player will develop relationship with Aerith so her loss will hurt more.
@@saulmiller422 That’s because I don’t see anywhere that Square has ever said that Cloud and Aerith are based off of Romeo and Juliet. On what grounds? That she dies? Cloud doesn’t. They’re not from opposing families or gangs or opposing sides. There’s no meta commentary on the dangers of young love. There’s not even a love confession or even a kiss. If it’s a reference to Romeo and Juliet it would be the most shallow one. Nojima would write it to be a lot more clever if it was based on that. And where did they say that they took inspiration from Lara Croft or Pamela Anderson? I researched and put in facts and not assumptions. And if I put in assumptions, I stated that they were my opinions. Not saying that they can’t be inspired by them in making Tifa, but there’s nothing that I found of them saying that they took inspo for that, thus, it’s not in my video. Yes, the devs put in the dating mechanic for Aerith’s death to be more felt, BUT that’s a part of the narrative NOT the plot. Go watch DutchDread’s video. He counters all the arguments you may have on this topic.
@@SNWSTORM These people just can't help but self insert their own desires on the character of Cloud. That why they come to these 5D chess convoluted "themes" or twist the characters into being devious or outright evil in order for their head canon to fit into what is actually presented on screen. Honestly if any comparision is to be made to Romeo ans Juliet it would be Zack and Aerith, lol. He's one of Shinras top enforcers, the industrial force that is killing the planet, while Aerith is a Cetra who is in tune with nature. Oh and they both die.
@@SNWSTORM Sakaguchi is heavily inspired by Shakespeare (multiple FF games) and Nomura liked Romeo and Juliet movie with Dicaprio, Danes (1996). There s also Loveless, Caith sith quotes, similarities between R+J and C+A. It s not a secret. U can find more if u look for it. 90s thing is my opinion, because it was everywhere and devs were inspired by western culture a lot
this was such a well done video, i agreed with it and love the thought you put into analyzing them on multiple levels! in the sea of the internet just constantly watering down these girls over and over it's refreshing to see a thoughtful view at both that isnt crazy biased or trying to degrade them visually for once. especially tifa with how she is constantly the subject of hate because of her appearance
@@HavenMayCry Thank you so much! I agree. It makes me sick every time I hear someone tear these women down. And it is especially with Tifa’s appearance, which reaks of misogyny to me. It‘s definitely toxic and I’m sick of hearing people say these things.
You have a good analysis overall for the majority of your video! I think although you tried to not bring shipping into the video, it's still pretty clear that you still did and showed a preference. It's hard to not do so as although it doesn't take precedence of the narrative or the characters, romance is still a component of it. I loved the way you discussed the subtle changes in their personalities and relationships to Cloud to help with his internal growth slowly throughout the story. I did watch the video a while back you mentioned but did not entirely agree with the stance in it as both Aerith and Tifa have heavy implications to assisting to the overarching and internal plots in different ways. Therefore they are simply dual heroines, not one heroine of one caliber versus another. They simply have different climaxes and resolutions. The discussion of their outfit contrast was also great and I learned a lot of things I had not noticed or looked into before! Im really glad you mentioned some of their negative traits, but wouldve been even hapoier if you spent a liftle more time on it. Both characters have a double edged sword with some of them. Aerith with her abruptness and stubbornness, and Tifa with her passiveness and dependence. Of course they end up growing over time (sadly, Tifa is the only one who has more time to grow further as a character from this). It's just cool since not many people focus much on the flaws of these wonderful characters but it's what really makes them relatable! I may get downvoted for this, but I do cringe a bit when I hear people say that Tifa is the only person who can unlock the true Cloud. While this is true to an extent, I do find it as an exaggerated misunderstood truth. She admitted several times not knowing Cloud as well as she thought she did. And knowing of each other in childhood does not mean you are close. The same is said with Zack and Aerith who spent even less time together than Aerith and the others in totality. He shares traumatic memories with Tifa surrounding the very unfortunate destruction of their village and death of their family and friends. He shares in feelings of isolation and being unwanted with Aerith. The quality time he spends with Aerith, although minimal overall, is actually near equal quantity and quality with Tifa (partially because she will be departing the game soon, so it made sense to make their relationship more sped up). This is part of why she and Aerith are on a near equal playing field when getting to know him all over again, and it's a beautiful thing because they are all different people at this stage in their life. Tifa does know a portion of the truths of what happened in Nebelheim, but fully admits it is Cloud who ended up saving himself (although I agree she is being super humble within character as she is the one who navigated him through). Even so, Cloud was never not his 'true' self, he was living a life believing he was someone that he is not and falsely remenbering things that truly occured. After the lifestream sequence, he is still much of the same person he was before, but with his experiences with everyone, he discovers more parts of his newer self and with Tifa can be that person without the false memories. Although she was there to help a portion of his false memories come to light (and the most important parts), in totality this is not something only Tifa coupd have done, but was chosen to do and for an excellent reason regarding other more intimate reasons. Although there were a few biases, I think your video was well thought out, organized and edited!
@@OGBabygurl Thank you for your well thought out comment and for disagreeing respectfully. It’s rare to see respectful disagreements in the fandom especially when it comes to the LTD. Yes, as I said in the video I would try not to bring up where I stand on the love triangle more than is relevant. The romance element is still part of the story and where they come in as characters. My point was also that they both do so much for Cloud, but are also way more than that. Maybe I said a little too much on my stance. It is very hard to be impartial and remain that way. They are dual heroines and help with the internal and external conflicts, however, Aerith is mainly the role of the heroine of the external conflict and Tifa is mainly the heroine of the internal conflict. My point was that you can’t interchange these characters for the resolutions of these conflicts. Aerith is the last living Cetra and Tifa has the personality equipped for helping him in the lifestream and the shared traumas with Cloud. I don’t think that one heroine is above the other. As for the negative traits, I didn’t want to focus on those too much because both women get a lot of hate already. I brought up the ones that existed to show their flaws, how they are relatable and show growth. But also, I could’ve gotten a lot deeper on a lot of things in the video and it would’ve been a much longer video 😅 but that’s still a valid criticism. As for your last main point, I see where you’re coming from. It is somewhat of a generalization that Tifa knows the true Cloud. When the answer is more complicated than that. Traces of Two Pasts does clarify a lot, though. They were close when they were younger, but Cloud’s insecurities caused him to push away. She is, however, a huge motivator for him and is the cause of the events of the game in the first place because of him misunderstanding what it meant for him to be her hero. Maybe the better phrase would be that she brings out Cloud’s true self. The Remake ultimania talked about certain moments in that game that she brought out his true self. I think in Rebirth one of those moments was their conversation in Gongaga. He was never that vulnerable about what’s going on with him, but he was with her. And in the lifestream sequence she does say that he saved himself, but yes, she’s humble about her role in that of guiding him towards that. Then he says “We finally meet again” or something along those lines. I disagree that Cloud was much of the same after that. I think he was way different after personality-wise, but that is harder to catch because of the OG’s limitations. I think in part 3 it’ll be very apparent. Cody Christian has talked a lot about Cloud’s dorky personality and how he’s going to bring it out more. Idk, we’ll see. So, maybe, I just need to change my phrasing. But, I don’t think they are on equal playing field at all. Sure, Aerith and Cloud share similar experiences with isolation, but also Cloud doesn’t tell her that. She thinks him and Tifa grew up as besties. Tifa and Aerith can both tell that Cloud’s acting off and is not being himself, but I still wouldn’t say it’s near equal. Maybe if you have higher affinity with Aerith, but in game without that, I don’t think it’s even close. But hey, that’s up to interpretation and opinion. I can’t speak too much about Zack and Aerith since I haven’t played CC yet, but only have watched playthroughs. But when I researched I found that they spent around 2 years together. Sure, they didn’t travel together, but still that’s a more significant amount of time than the 1 to 2 weeks Aerith spent with the party. Ultimately, though, that doesn’t matter as much because they clearly had something going on and what went on between Aerith and Cloud is heavily debated. Anyway, thanks for your respectful disagreement. Thanks for not name calling or being hateful. I am biased, but everyone is 😅 I will work on being more neutral, but thanks for complimenting my video. It was a lot of work.
Definitely understand your points and thanks for clarifying! To clarify further in the Ultimania, it is brought up in the Remake series that glimpses of Clouds true self came out with Tifa, but that is not elaborated on in Rebirth as something solely happening with her. In fact, the reasoning for Clouds false persona has a lot to do with Tifa especially due to the mimicry of Jenova when they first encounter each other in Midgar. I think it is clear for all fans that Cloud showed glimpses of his true self with much of the cast at specific times, and this furthers the importance of all of his bonds. Thay being said, it's very important that while Tifa recognizes Clouds events not lining up, she really doesn't know who the true Cloud is. Aerith has no clue of these events and false memories he has, but is the only character to openly recognized he is not his 'true' self, despite not knowing what that true self is. Neither woman truly knows Cloud for who he is, just the idealized versions they think they know or currently see. Being vulnerable is so important for his development, it is just a shame he sort of reverts further from Tifa in the nonoptional sequences thereafter the Gongaga arch. After the LS sequence Cloud is more enlightened, but his personality is much of the same aside from being more humble and ashamed to what previously transpired, not including the further mental illness he suffers from the realities of what happened to Zack and later Aerith outside of the OG. I disagree with you on the playing field with the two women and Cloud and just as you say Aerith thinks he and Tifa grew up as besties, I think this mirrors the fandom as assuming the same. Again, Tifa incorrectly interprets things she thought she knew about Cloud and responds thinking she perhaps did not know him as much as she thought. Cloud responds that they have time to catch up implying to rebuild those bonds, and this is beautiful. The difference as well is that although Cloud and Tifa grew up together, they only spent a short time of their childhood together being actually 'close'. A time before their real personalities even start to take shape (though it's debated Cloud had a chance to really develop due to his experiments with Hojo). Both are more reserved characters and it makes sense for closeness to develop a little more slowly later. Aerith and Cloud spend an even shorter time of their later years together, but the directiveness of Aeriths character pushes those boundaries and connections a little further and quicker. Tifa and Cloud have a lot of the rest of the compilation to further grow and connect, whereas Aeriths personality with Cloud gave them such a strong bond in a shorter amount of time that is cut even shorter over time. The devs truly show the differences in different types of relationships and meanings of intimacy ( physical, mental and emotional) with both women in the trilogy and I believe this also puts them on a much more neutral field. You don't have to actually know every in and out about a person right away to feel a close bond and connection with them. This bond is further declared in AC when Nomura proclaims that Aeriths consciousness resides within Cloud due to these bonds we create with those we care for. This is part of why she is one of the only people he sees from the LS (aside from one time with Zack in AC) despite all the alternate realities we have going on and different people he loves he have died. CC is my favorite game so of course I recommend giving it a shot if you have the opportunity! But you're right to an extent, it is implied Zack and Aerith knew of each other and intermittently interacted between 2 years before Zacks disappearance. However in the game itself, without spoilers, their actual time together is much shorter than that. Some of their interactions were clearly very meaningful, but it's almost implied in my honest opinion, Zacks duty came before his relationship with Aerith time and time again even to the extent of putting other people in charge of taking care of her in his stead. Something that also occurs in the Rebirth series with him bestowing her safety at times to Elmyra and Cloud. Not that this wasnt a necessary thing, but The contrast with Cloud was from first meeting her, he took initiative to go after her himself time and time again despite her asking him not to. There's a lot of stark contrasts between her relationships in knowing both men that are very far from being black and white. Neither man's significance is diminished though! But Zacks presence in her life does not simply put Cloud in the clear of not being a potential romantic or even more felt for partner by Aeriths character. Like you said nearly everything is heavily debatable and that's why I love this game so much even way outside of the romantic tropes! It's a complex story with multiple complex characters. I feel the best way to approach any situation in this game is to acknowledge things are not always as they initially seem. Thanks for the great discussion and video! Looking forward to the next!
@ I will respond with as brief of a comment as possible because I don’t like debating much tbh. I think it’s valuable to see the other side especially when it’s being approached in a respectful manner. Art is subjective and gets interpreted differently. So, I can chalk this up to agree to disagree, but there’s validity in what we’re both saying. You’ve got a point that the devs haven’t really said much (as far as I know) about how much Cloud’s true self has opened up to the other party members at this point, but he still opens up a lot more to Tifa. The argument that she triggers a lot of his false persona stuff bothers me because it’s not her fault. Cloud developed a lot of traumas and insecurities as a kid because the other village boys hung on Tifa and he failed to save her on Mt. Nibel. Instead of communicating that to her, he made assumptions and acted on his insecurities. They were kids. All this is set up so that the pay off of them working it out in the lifestream would be more powerful. Yeah, Aerith sees the Zack in Cloud (not personality so much, but in his mannerisms) and sees that something isn’t right. She’s not coming from this from a clear slate either. And we all see the people we fall in love with under idealized lenses. It’s why there’s a honeymoon phase. And Cloud reminds Aerith of Zack. I agree with you for the most part that it takes Cloud and Tifa a while because of their reserved personalities. It gives them great character developments and arcs and is part of what makes their relationship beautiful to a lot of us. I don’t quite agree with the speedrunning of Aerith and Cloud’s relationship notion, but as I stated in my video she does help him through her open personality. I’ve seen this happen in my own life since I also have an open personality. Cloud still spends more time with Tifa and opens up to her more than he does with Aerith, but like I said, we can agree to disagree. I do agree with you that we don’t have to know a person deeply in order to connect with them. No one knows a person completely. Everyone has personas and facades as per Jungian psychology. I can’t wait to play CC. I definitely plan on playing it next and hopefully soon. I see what you’re saying about that. But Zack was still a SOLDIER at that time. Cloud was an “ex-SOLDIER” by the time of the events of OG and the retrilogy. Zack had to put his duty first at that point for his job. Cloud didn’t have to because he wasn’t a part of Shinra anymore. At the end of CC Zack’s trying to get back to Aerith. In Rebirth he’s trying to save her, Biggs, and Cloud. He ends up at the church without being prompted to by Aerith. That whole date sequence was juxtaposed with Zack trying to get to her. Again there’s set up going on here and it’s highly likely that there will be a pay off since it all leads to Advent Children and they put Zack in Remake and Rebirth in the first place and juxtaposed his scenes with Cloud’s for a reason. But we’ll see when part 3 comes out. Thanks for this discussion. It’s nice having intelligent discussions with people from the other side of the debate. I mainly see absolutely ludicrous unsupported head canons that are heavily emotionally charged. But of course that happens on the Cloti side too. I can tell that you understand the game and its complexities and that’s really nice to see.
@SNWSTORM Thanks for the thoughtful responses. And I agree with you, debating this stuff does not usually end in much else but it was really nice to have a civilized conversation for a change. While I have a response and do not agree to many of the points brought up, I can see where you're coming from and respect your view on it. I agree it's best to chalk it up to agree to disagree. This has been going on for a decade or so due to the complexities of every scene and character despite what either of us believe. Really love this game and these characters. Cheers and see you in the next video!!
@@OGBabygurl Thank you for your maturity and thoughtful responses too. It’s definitely hard and rare to have mature disagreements especially in a nearly 30 year old fandom. Even though we disagree, I really respect you and your well thought out opinions. I’ll see you in the next video!
a bit off-topic but i couldn’t get that much into the book bc of all the showering, i know that sounds silly but i have it on kindle and when u search for that word it comes up 48 times… now everytime she mentions showering in the games i freeze a bit from the cringe i felt. is it just a me-thing? did i focus on the wrong thing, or was there like a subversion i overlooked? or a message i didn’t get? like was it just the author being a bit horny or was there some quirky aspect to it?
Regarding costume choices of the two women, you need to PC Mod Rebirth to have Tifa wear Aerith's clothes and Aerith to wear Tifa's clothing. Then try to find somebody who knows nothing about either character and ask them what they think about each woman based upon their clothing attire. See what they say. Then have them play the game with the mid clothing switch. Then see what they say.😊
Absolutely amazing video! I must watch for all fans I'm gonna share this to everyone I know that's into Final Fantasy 7! Thank you so much for all of your hard work!
@@sisyphus4889 Yes this girl has interesting videos. Watch them all. Especially the friendship videos between Aerith and Tifa. You have all these ship wars going on between the Fandom, that far too many of them ignore what Remake trilogy did with them. They made them friends. Og didn't really. Minus their 1st meeting one another. But remake hammered this point home and fans ignore it. This channel above all others (and ive seen plenty) found the truth that Sqaure pushed for in remake. That Tifa and Aerith are friends.
@@sisyphus4889 Oh my god! Thank you so much! That’s such a huge compliment that really made my whole day! Thank you for your comment and for sharing my video. That really makes all the work I put into this video very worth it ☺️
@@SNWSTORM I really wanted people to see your video since it was so well constructed. I actually posted it on Twitter and had people retweet it. I'm not a very big account but I did notice some mutuals from Twitter on here commented 😆
I want to agree with the fashion take on Tifa, but the problem (for lack of a better word) is while yes, the character herself doesn't dress that way in-universe for male attention, as a fictional character she was designed that way for a reason. Japanese men designed her that way for fanservice/sex appeal, let's not kid ourselves. Now as she is an adult character, this isn't really an issue here, but it is still true. As female gamers we need to remember that, especially back then, boys going through puberty were considered the main demographic to sell video games to. I kind of think it's silly to pretend it was done with feminism in mind.
@@KairiKey989 I do see your point. She was created by Nomura who is on record saying that he likes to design attractive characters. And yes, that was true of the 90s. Lots of men know who Tifa is without playing the game because she looks sexy. So, maybe in part it was fanservice and for sex appeal and it would be silly to deny that. But they still subverted that with her personality and her romantic style, which was my original point. They could’ve easily leaned heavy into the stereotypes and made her a completely coquettish character, but didn’t. And I think that’s cool and important to bring up. I was very careful going into this part of the video because it causes controversy, so your criticism is very valid. I focused more on the in universe aspect of it because a lot of men still sexualize her a lot and others sl*t shame her in order to validate ships. So I felt like I needed to bring up these subversions to try to educate these people. Also, I want to repeat what I said in the video. I don’t think she was dressed that sexily. There are several female characters from the 90s that wore more revealing clothing. But, that doesn’t change the fact that so many people get h*rny over her.
@@SNWSTORM agreed. And to be honest, Nomura designs sexy / beautiful characters of both genders. Who rock lots and lots of belts. I remember a good bunch of girls being absolute simps for Cloud, Vincent, Reno, Rufus, and of course Sephiroth. The latter being maybe one of the rare examples where gamer guys and girls both agreed on a character being hot and powerful at the same time. Regarding Tifa, one could think that Lara Croft was an inspiration for her outfit if that game didn't come out just one year earlier, leaving too little time for such a design choice.
Ok. Well go complain about how Cloud and literally every major character (not in Nintendo) look great. Have ripping abs of steel that requires hours of real world work to achieve, yet no game actually represents this proportionally to the time needed to work out for the character. I mean you don't look like Barret because you lift a spoon. Where's the complaints about men looking really good? It doesn't exist. Because men are fine playing with buff unrealistic representatives of themselves. They are also fine playing as hot women too. If you don't like to play as gorgeous people in games, Biowares Dragin Age would love it if you bought their game. But the rest of us like playing as hot looking characters. And most characters in all games are shallow. Tifa is not. She looks gorgeous and has lots of characteristics to emulate. Appreciate that.
@@DS94everXev You've made quite a lot of assumptions about me sir. I actually very much hate the new dragon age game, and I do like playing as attractive women, my miqote is even modded in ffxiv. I am, however, a woman myself, so I am able to appreciate the female form without seeing women as *just* a sexy body
A great video on why tifa and Aerith have stuck around and continue to inspire storytellers. To add onto your topic about these two defying tropes are the moments that could be taken as commentary on how women can be treated. Aerith and tifa (and even sephiroth[a whole other story]) experience lets just say unwanted attention and exploitation in large part because of their bodies. According to the story from official canon stories, tifa and Aerith get unwanted attention from folks because of their physical traits. Aerith's heritage doomed her and her mom to be forever hunted by shinra which is mostly run by men. Hojo even proposes rape to get her to procreate. Shinra tears apart her mom's body for "science" It reminds me of how real life male scientists abused the bodies of indigenous bodies and many others deemed unworthy. Aerith even shows discomfort when cid calls her "girlie" correcting him "Its Aerith." Obviously cid was not being sexist, but Aerith takes issue with others not seeing her as a person. Cid immediately corrects himself and goes out of his way to help Aerith. Tifa ignored the boys' romantic overtures in the town growing up. makes sense. she felt happier being one of the guys. i imagine she felt more like an object to be won rather than a boy seriously trying to be get to know her. There is discomfort for young people especially girls seeing guys pine over you when that wasnt an issue before. in fact, nearly all boys (and even cloud) do not understand tifa because they don't talk to her seriously. Cloud has the excuse as he was terribly shy and ashamed of himself (and hated by the town) but the others? They kept wanting to leave the town and to be tifa's savior! they superficially promised to be her knight when tifa didn't really want that. Then when they all left, they forgot about tifa. So much for genuine care. when tifa is treated by the female doctor, said doctor unethically shows off her injuries to fellow doctors. tifa did not consent to this. But she didn't voice any concerns because she didn't want to upset the doctor who was helping her and seemingly being nice. Its a power dynamic that is wrongful distorted. Said doctor's son also did wrong to tifa and then in disgusting manner, tells tifa "i love you" after everything he did tifa. Its an incel. Her bakery boss even is noted for sexist tendencies heck he hired her because of her looks (although he is patient with tifa). Tifa finally breaks out from being in debt or working for people who violate her personal spaces not from a man necessarily, but by her new found friends in avalanche which only happened because she became friends with Jessie-a woman who is even more outspoken and flirtatious than Aerith. As a sidenote, and i'm citing a article that covers motherhood in ff7, most of best adult authority figures for the heroes and even the villain who could be considered to be positive influences on their arcs, are women.
@@bradhorowitz2765 Oh my god! You really nailed it! Traces of Two Pasts really put it in perspective. With Aerith, the Faz stuff made me angry how he basically tried to assault her because she looks like her mother. And for Tifa, I was so pissed when I read about how Dhamini showed Tifa’s breasts to her patients. It made me super happy when Marle told her off. And F*ck Rakesh. At least Manson was honest about how he was using her looks to bring customers, but that’s still gross especially since she was still a minor for most of the time that she worked there. But yeah. There’s so much to say. I actually have 5 video essays about Tifa’s story in Traces of Two Pasts that will be out eventually (once I get all the footage I want) and 3 about Aerith. I really feel like as many people need to learn these stories as possible so that they really understand why it’s not ok to say the sexist things they say about these characters. Oh yeah, Hojo wanting to breed Aerith forcefully always makes me absolutely sick to my stomach. I consider him absolutely evil and the true villain of FF7. Thanks for your comment. More people need to know these things.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Another thing that plays into the subversion of Aerith's character is how she ends up being played vs. her surface-level "class."
So Aerith is traditional considered a white mage, with healing and other supportive abilities, however with the materia system in FF7 anyone can have any spell meaning that you can take advantage of her insainly high magic stat to be an absolute nuker. Additionally, her limits are support-based, like restoring HP or MP or granting invincibility; however, this allows Aerith to run more offensive materia since she can worry less about supporting the party because of her limits.
She's not just the white mage of the party, she's black mage aswell.
@@bleakcentuar98 That is a really cool point. I admit that I don’t normally have her in my party because I prefer Cloud, Tifa, and Yuffie’s play styles, so I didn’t know those nuances. I had heard that she gets almost game breaking powerful, so thanks for bringing that to my attention. That is a really cool detail and subversion that I absolutely missed 😅
Now i have DBZA moment stuck in my head thanks to this white/black mage talk.
Aerith heals Tifa: "ive healed you. i'm a nice girl."
Tifa: "and whats to stop me from punching you for that snide remark?"
Aerith: "Because if you touch me, your not getting back up again. that's right i'm your white mage. and nobody fu&@!s with the white mage-"
Sephiroth Stabs Aerith*
Sephiroth: "Oh i feel real good about myself right now. "
I love how inspiring and complex both of these characters are in their own distinct ways. Artists, writers, and musicians can all learn a great deal by analyzing what makes both of them so effective in storytelling, and this video is a great tool to do so.
@@lowgman384 Oh absolutely! I’m an artist and a musician and this game definitely inspires me in those ways too.
Thank you for sharing the two rays of light that these girls shine on pop culture
Wow this was so well done, thanks for all the research you put into making this video. Subbed and now going to binge the rest of your videos !
@@allia807 Oh my god! That’s so sweet! Thank you ☺️
Great video! Really appreciate the time and effort you took to research these two heroines, their development, and their respective roles!
Btw, neat detail: Aerith’s flower on her choker has five petals, while the reunion lily has six so people have identified Aer’s necklace as the Forget-Me-Not flower. Incidentally, that’s the flower that’s on Aer’s stationary that she used to write Zack her letters… 😭😭😭
Can’t wait to watch your other videos after the quality of this one!
@@jenniferchough Ooh! Thanks for sharing that neat detail with me! I love learning about the languages of flowers, so I think that’s really neat. The forget-me-not does really suit her and her relationship with Zack. I’m wanting to play Crisis Core next, so I’m looking forwards to seeing more subtle details like that when it comes to them. ☺️
Thank you for your comment and for liking my video. It makes me so happy to connect with you all over this game and talk about cool details like this ☺️
@@SNWSTORM oh hey I noticed you had some scenes clips with Korean subs and was wondering and then I read you’d been living in Korea as of recent times! That’s really cool; I’m currently in Korea, working, but will move back to the States soon. I was just pleasantly surprised to hear you had lived here!
Anyway, glad to see your channel was highly recommended to us on Twitter and I look forward to seeing your future ideas and thoughts in more videos.
@ 어머! That’s so cool! Yeah, I taught English there for 4 1/2 years. Remake came out during that time, so I got the Korean/Japanese version but still English audio. Rebirth came out while I was still there, but I was preparing to move at that time. That’s so cool that you’re there currently. I really miss Korea, so that makes me happy.
I haven’t been on Twitter in a long time, so that makes me happy that my channel was shared there. Thank you! I’m more excited to put out more videos now ☺️
Another awesome video, I’m so glad you brought up the true story behind Tifa and Aerith’s creations. It’s something not a lot of fans are even aware of. I remember when I first heard about it and how often I wondered in an alternate universe where the ff7 developers didn’t spit the original concept into two characters (Tifa & Aerith) and how different the story would have been. Ultimately I’m so glad we live the universe where they have both Tifa and Aerith as separate characters.
@@vakermaker Absolutely. It’s something that either fans aren’t aware of or they twist it to suit their narrative. But yeah, I totally agree with you. It would be a different story and I think it’s really cool and quite genius for them to split the heroine into two.
@@SNWSTORM unfortunately most fans still think that Tifa was only created after the FF7 developers had decided to kill off Aerith when in actuality that’s only partially correct and to be fair I even thought so too until I learned the truth that a character named Tifa was originally gonna be given Aerith’s backstory before the developers split this character into 2 characters. now based on what I also learned awhile ago. I’m not sure you heard about this or not but at some point after they had split the heroine into two characters, there’s a possibility that Tifa believe it or not wasn’t even going to be a playable character. She’s still a martial artist and a bartender but she would have had a minor role in the story. She’d be associated with Avalanche but would only be a support from behind-the-scenes. And her and Cloud would still know each other from childhood but get this: on her back she would have a large scar she got from Cloud but she has no memory of the event. But as fate would have it, after it was decided that Aerith would die in the story, Tifa was give more prominence to and the devs made Tifa a core member of our party in ff7. Here’s a video that goes into better detail on the situation: ua-cam.com/video/M44VAid2650/v-deo.html
And here’s something that a gives an early description of Tifa that helps back the information given in that video: thelifestream.net/lifestream-projects/translations/2002/early-material-file-character-files-p-518-of-the-final-fantasy-vii-ultimania-omega/
@@vakermaker I had heard of the idea to have Tifa have a large scar on her back from Cloud, but they changed it. I didn’t know the other details though. I’m glad that it was changed and Tifa was given a bigger story and role. I’ll check the videos out. Thanks for the recommendation.
@@vakermaker it probably would have been something akin to the story in FF8 but with the overall plot remaining the same but without Zacks exitence, so Cloud probably would have been an actual SOLDIER.
Squall = Cloud,
Rinoa = Tifa/Aerith before the split.
Seifer = Sephiroth.
Ultimecia = Jenova
thank you for making this video
@@littledreaamer Absolutely! I’ve actually had an experience recently where Tifa’s example in particular helped me help a friend through a very scary situation. I hope we can all have moments in our lives where we can be like Tifa or Aerith to someone else.
@@SNWSTORM agreed. that's so beautiful
This was a fantastic video! It's really great to see these characters explained so comprehensively. Well researched and evidenced and if more people understood what FFVII is actually seeking to accomplish, they could understand this story without undermining it. In general, the subversions of FFVII and how they are used within these two primary conflicts are what make it some of the most brilliant storytelling ever.
One thing I would add to the discussion of the internal vs external natures of these characters is how Aerith functions so much more as a meta character. She is consistently, going back to the OG, used to deliver messages to the player/audience, but in very subtle and nuanced ways (not like Deadpool XD). Whereas Tifa is used within the parameters of the story's four walls, particularly in her relationships with the other characters and of course her role within the internal plot.
Keep up the great work, I will be checking out more of your content!
@@somebodysnightmare That is such a cool point that I didn’t even think about. There is absolutely a meta element to it. Aerith is absolutely external to the point of subtle 4th wall breaking and Tifa is strictly internal to the game. Such brilliant work from Square. Thanks for bringing that up and for loving my video.
I decided to make a video like this because I noticed that certain people who think similar to me notice these subversions and intricate style of storytelling, while a whole other part of the fandom completely misses it in order to validate what they believe the story to be. I felt like it was a serious disservice not only to the story and the developers, but to these beloved characters. And there’s so many misunderstandings that I really wanted to clear up because it makes me sad to see what people reduce Tifa and Aerith to. I’m so glad that there are people like you who see this too and we can all talk about it. There’s so much artistry to this game that needs to be appreciated. So thank you! 🙏
Thank you for your analysis! It was intelligent, thoughtful and insightful in its delivery. Definitely subscribing, and looking forward to viewing your other videos! Appreciate your time and effort, and hope you have a happy new year! 🎉
@@h0neyb4dger7 Thank you so much ☺️ happy new year!!!
Brace yourself, because this might be a long comment! Unsure if you'll even read it, but I felt like sharing anyways, as I feel I have a somewhat... curious perspective on these two characters and even the LTD.
I'm a curious case because my favorite FF character of all time is probably OG FF7's Tifa, but in Remake, Aerith takes the crown easily for me as being the most interesting (OG Tifa is still my overall favorite character of the series, but I will explain why I think they have done her a bit dirty in Remake). I took some time thinking why that is, since they aren't all that different in the Remake, and while I go back and forth on the reasons why this is (including, perhaps, me simply resonating differently with each character in a different time of my life, which, interestingly enough, proved to be untrue, as I played both recently and I still see myself gravitating towards Tifa being a better character overall in OG FF7 and Aerith being better overall in Remake), I think I know why -- and it has to do, mostly, with the LTD.
See, in the original, I felt that Aerith was always the obvious choice for Cloud regarding the LTD. Don't crucify me yet, let me explain. Back in 1999-ish (I'm old, OK), the consensus was mostly that Aerith was the love interest and Tifa was the unrequited love. Even arguing in favor of Tifa online was met with some abrasive responses from FF7 fans in general. But, this is precisely why I loved Tifa: although her story and background was deeply connected to Cloud, she was basically her own person. She wasn't the perceived love interest, but yet, she drawn me anyways, by being this positive, selfless, caring and strong character. Tifa even being perceived as a love interest by Cloud was almost entirely player dependant, with several key scenes requiring you to "go out of your way" to favor Tifa over Aerith (my young self, despite always liking Tifa more, for example, never knew she was an option at the GS date, I only got Aerith! It was only when I bought a gaming magazine that I understood this mechanic and went for it!). Aerith, on the other hand, was always tied to Cloud, pushing him, urging him, which, I'll admit, is fun and cute on it's own, but it always felt like she was trying too hard and that was her whole thing, like: chill gurl. Her most interesting side was, by leaps and bounds, her Cetra heritage. And only after her death, she becomes infinitely more interesting as a character. Actually, no, after she takes it to herself to go after Sephiroth is when she becomes more interesting.
Since, technically, OG FF7 already happened in Remake and we are experiencing something sorta like a sequel (well, at least for Aerith and Sephiroth), Aerith is still the same Aerith that we knew in OG FF7, including her death, she is still an evolving character from that point in time, everyone else though, reseted. Her goal now, from the get go, is to stop Sephiroth, she is basically the main character. Instead of pushing and urging Cloud, she pushes and urges everyone, all the while she is keeping her own desires and wants in check so things can proceed according to "her plan" (when she says stuff like "Please, don't fall in love with me", we know she doesn't mean it, but she can't help the heartache and suffering again, not for herself and specially not for Cloud: She knows she will die), well, at least until she starts to forget stuff. She kind of betrays her own words more than once, though, all Cloud has to do is make a little push or give her a little attention and she quickly falls head over heels. This is interesting because Aerith here takes the role which I, in the OG, firstly attributed to Tifa: She is not the obvious love interest. She will die. She can't be. She is her own person aside from Cloud and she is much more interesting for it. Likewise, Tifa kinda of slipped into OG Aerith: She is the obvious love interest, she has the abrasive fanbase and they kinda push her needlessly to Cloud in several original scenes. A neat detail that always made me admire OG Tifa (and still does) as a character was regarding the date mechanic: In Don Corneo's Mansion, if you say to Tifa "Are you OK?" when Aerith gets picked, she actually berates you and your points with her GO DOWN! The only way to make her points go up in this instance is to rush directly to Aerith, because Tifa just cares that much more about other people rather than herself or her own feelings... something the Remake seemed to miss. In Remake she confides in Cloud about the bombing mission, something OG Tifa would never do, she would not bother anyone with her feelings, specially not at that point in time; she cries on his shoulder about Sector 7, something she also would not do; she confronts Cloud head on about her memories, something OG Tifa would never do, for better or worse; she shows (playful, but real) jealousy towards Aerith, something she didn't do at all in OG, not even when Cait Sith splurted out that Aerith and Cloud belonged together in the OG, right to her face! In the GS date, there was no awkward kiss that didn't get mentioned at all later on, she just couldn't open up. She choked. Yet, she was happy with that moment. It made total sense. Tifa was, by all intents and purposes, a "locked heart". Deeply and through and through. Only when she vowed to search for the real Cloud in the Lifestream is that she started to open up, it had meaning behind this change in her personality. She was evolving to be more open. After all, her being so closed off is, partially, what cause Cloud to spiral and she wouldn't have it anymore.
See, I have OG Tifa in such a high standard that I can't help but feel a bit... well, disappointed with how she was treated in the Remake. She is too emotional, too clingy, too fan-servicey (all of these are debatable, of course, it's only my interpretation). Although, I will give you this: She has SEVERAL cute moments with Cloud! But they are all with Cloud -- perhaps a few handful with Aerith (and these are far more interesting). I feel -- like I said before -- that Remake Tifa occupies the same place OG Aerith had (and still has) when I first played FF7: I like her, but she falls short on the excellency of being like OG Tifa, which is, to this date, my favorite FF character of all time. Remake Aerith coming close in second place now!
So, to sum this all up: I feel like Tifa and Aerith are funny and cute when they interact with Cloud, but I feel that they are at their strongest when they exist outside the LTD. And OG Tifa and Remake Aerith are simply better written outside of Cloud and their relationship with him. They are more focused, they have more purpose and are, all in all, more coherent than their inferior counterparts (Remake Tifa and OG Aerith, IMO). OG Tifa cares about Cloud deeply, is all about abnegation, she feels deeply, but she would NEVER let her emotions get in the way of her goals, and being with Cloud wasn't exactly a goal, only that he would be safe and happy; likewise Remake Aerith, she cares deeply about Cloud, is all about abnegation, she feels deeply as well, but she never lets her emotions get in the way of her goals, and being with Cloud isn't her goal, only that he is safe and happy (see how they switched their personalities up a bit?).
And just for the sake of clarity: I also have a... well, curious view on the LTD. I feel like Cloud loves both girls, the one being favored depending on the player. And even though there is no confirmation and there will NEVER be, because that's how the creators want to keep this story, I feel like Cloud eventually moves on from Aerith to be with Tifa (**if** you even pursued Aerith, that is). Not because Tifa is a "consolation prize", but rather because their relationship evolves to that point eventually. And let's face it, Aerith would love that, for Cloud to be happy. :)
You are putting your own feelings into the character of Cloud.
Cloud, the character, never displays any romantic interest in Aerith in neither OG or the remakes, that is all her own doing + the narrative pushing them into romantic tropes. Why? Because it made her murder halfway through the game shocking and unexpected because you, the player, is supposed to think she was the "true" love interest when playing for the first time.
And after her death is when Clouds true past is revealed, with his fractured mind having created a persona based on Zack, Aeriths lost lover and that Cloud always was in love with Tifa.
The whole Aerith debate stems from the fact that many scenes that actually explains that Aerith was seeing Zack in Cloud in OG were optional and easy to miss.
If you don't go to Gongaga, you won't talk to Zacks parents. If you don't hahe Aerith in your party, she won't talk to them or to Cloud outside their house. If you don't go back to the Nibelheim reactor after the Lifestream sequence, you won't see Zack breaking out Cloud and then dying outside Midgar.
Not to mention that kids who played the game missunderstood the story and then to this day refuse to acknowledge that they got it wrong, even when Zack is litterally on the cover next to Cloud in Rebirth.
I’m not getting into this argument again, since 1999 I deal with shippers from both sides and I know when they are too one-sided to really grasp anything other then their own favored one to understand that there really *is* a LT. And the game is richer for it. Like I said, this really cheapens any debate, and I kind of regret mentioning it, instead of just keeping to the girls.
I will just say this: if you think Aerith and Cloud are just in a platonic and sibling-like relationship, let your partner have the same exchanges and interactions they have in the game with someone else while you watch and see how you feel about it.
Like I said, for me Cloud and Tifa are endgame. So if you are arguing that they end up together, we can agree on that at least. Have a good day!
@MrCironn
it''s not a shipping comment, it's a plot and story comment. If a woman talks to me like Aerith talks to Cloud it doesn't say anyting about my personal feelings on the matter. Johnny hits on Tifa, so that means Tifa is interested in him? That's the argument you're using on Cloud.
Again: Look at Clouds responses and reactions to Aerith when she pushes anything that hints of romance on him. He ignored her or litterally tells her to stop. He is not written to be romantically interested in her. Period. There is litterally a quest were Cloud tells her to stop trying to make their quest into a date and it ends with her appologising.
Tifa is not the endgame, she's the only game for Cloud. He's written to be in love with Tifa since he was a child.
And Aerith isn't in love with Cloud either, she's in love with the man he reminds her of.
People who think it is both or Aerith are wrong. It really is NOT a debate.
Again, I will not delve into this debate. If you think Tifa and Johnny’s relationship is even in the slightest way comparable to Aerith and Cloud’s you are just too far gone.
Mukation is right. Aerith ship fans don't see that they are viewing Aerith from their perspective and desires not as Cloud's.
That was a fantastic video and indeed the subversion can even be felt with other characters and through designs as well
The fact that the monk role has been portrayed by big muscular dudes in the previous ff games only for ff7 to give the role to a slim shy and beautiful lady does emphasize the different nature of ff7 even as archery role being portrayed by slim accurate snipers ff7 gave us barret who is muscular and big and his gun is far from accurate
It's truly amazing and goes with ff7 from story to characters and so on
@@mohammadalfattal2902 Ooh! That’s a really good point about Berret! I definitely want to show our big lovable guy some love soon. He’s a very fascinating character with a lot of depth and subversions that were especially fleshed out in the retrilogy.
@@SNWSTORM indeed
Awesome video and analysis! You've articulated really skillfully my exact sentiments on this topic. If more of the fandom had this well-researched, holistic and nuanced understanding of the characters/story as opposed to just seeing the game through superficial shipping lenses there wouldn't be nearly as much toxicity on social media. Looking forward to upcoming videos!
@@ocean_0602 Thank you so much for saying that! I myself am a Cloti shipper, but that’s not going to override my desire to really dive deep into the story and characters in order to understand them and learn from them. I’m so glad that it’s coming through as I put in a lot of thought and research into it. I’m glad that you feel the same about this topic and so many others as well. It’s really refreshing and amazing to see that I’m not the only one because the insanity that comes out of shippers mouths does clog up a lot of the discussions. It’s such a shame too because this game is so much more than that. I can’t wait to get into other topics dealing with this game like mental health and identity because personally that’s a big draw for me into this compilation. Anyway, thanks for your comment and compliments. It really made my day ☺️
Nice video but i dont understand why u wont mention that Square is heavily influenced by Shakespeare in multiple of their games.
Cloud and Aerith is literally Romeo and Juliet.
If u ship Cloti that s fine but if u want to claim to do objective video please do objective video.
Also in 90s Baywatch with Pamela Anderson was huge global phenomenon and in gaming world Lara Croft in Tomb raider was popular too, they might be real inspiration behind Tifa s body type.
I also dont know what mentioned video about fictional love triangle was supposed to be, but devs put lot if stuff in FF7 OG to make sure player will develop relationship with Aerith so her loss will hurt more.
@@saulmiller422 That’s because I don’t see anywhere that Square has ever said that Cloud and Aerith are based off of Romeo and Juliet. On what grounds? That she dies? Cloud doesn’t. They’re not from opposing families or gangs or opposing sides. There’s no meta commentary on the dangers of young love. There’s not even a love confession or even a kiss. If it’s a reference to Romeo and Juliet it would be the most shallow one. Nojima would write it to be a lot more clever if it was based on that.
And where did they say that they took inspiration from Lara Croft or Pamela Anderson? I researched and put in facts and not assumptions. And if I put in assumptions, I stated that they were my opinions. Not saying that they can’t be inspired by them in making Tifa, but there’s nothing that I found of them saying that they took inspo for that, thus, it’s not in my video.
Yes, the devs put in the dating mechanic for Aerith’s death to be more felt, BUT that’s a part of the narrative NOT the plot. Go watch DutchDread’s video. He counters all the arguments you may have on this topic.
@@SNWSTORM These people just can't help but self insert their own desires on the character of Cloud. That why they come to these 5D chess convoluted "themes" or twist the characters into being devious or outright evil in order for their head canon to fit into what is actually presented on screen.
Honestly if any comparision is to be made to Romeo ans Juliet it would be Zack and Aerith, lol. He's one of Shinras top enforcers, the industrial force that is killing the planet, while Aerith is a Cetra who is in tune with nature.
Oh and they both die.
@@SNWSTORM Sakaguchi is heavily inspired by Shakespeare (multiple FF games) and Nomura liked Romeo and Juliet movie with Dicaprio, Danes (1996).
There s also Loveless, Caith sith quotes, similarities between R+J and C+A.
It s not a secret. U can find more if u look for it.
90s thing is my opinion, because it was everywhere and devs were inspired by western culture a lot
@@Mukation u lost me at "these people"
@@Mukation Excellent point about Zack 😂
this was such a well done video, i agreed with it and love the thought you put into analyzing them on multiple levels! in the sea of the internet just constantly watering down these girls over and over it's refreshing to see a thoughtful view at both that isnt crazy biased or trying to degrade them visually for once. especially tifa with how she is constantly the subject of hate because of her appearance
@@HavenMayCry Thank you so much! I agree. It makes me sick every time I hear someone tear these women down. And it is especially with Tifa’s appearance, which reaks of misogyny to me. It‘s definitely toxic and I’m sick of hearing people say these things.
They both rock a proportional amount of leather equal to each other, but together they have as much as Cloud 😂
@@kamen_mann 😂😂😂
You have a good analysis overall for the majority of your video! I think although you tried to not bring shipping into the video, it's still pretty clear that you still did and showed a preference. It's hard to not do so as although it doesn't take precedence of the narrative or the characters, romance is still a component of it.
I loved the way you discussed the subtle changes in their personalities and relationships to Cloud to help with his internal growth slowly throughout the story. I did watch the video a while back you mentioned but did not entirely agree with the stance in it as both Aerith and Tifa have heavy implications to assisting to the overarching and internal plots in different ways. Therefore they are simply dual heroines, not one heroine of one caliber versus another. They simply have different climaxes and resolutions. The discussion of their outfit contrast was also great and I learned a lot of things I had not noticed or looked into before!
Im really glad you mentioned some of their negative traits, but wouldve been even hapoier if you spent a liftle more time on it. Both characters have a double edged sword with some of them. Aerith with her abruptness and stubbornness, and Tifa with her passiveness and dependence. Of course they end up growing over time (sadly, Tifa is the only one who has more time to grow further as a character from this). It's just cool since not many people focus much on the flaws of these wonderful characters but it's what really makes them relatable!
I may get downvoted for this, but I do cringe a bit when I hear people say that Tifa is the only person who can unlock the true Cloud. While this is true to an extent, I do find it as an exaggerated misunderstood truth. She admitted several times not knowing Cloud as well as she thought she did. And knowing of each other in childhood does not mean you are close. The same is said with Zack and Aerith who spent even less time together than Aerith and the others in totality. He shares traumatic memories with Tifa surrounding the very unfortunate destruction of their village and death of their family and friends. He shares in feelings of isolation and being unwanted with Aerith. The quality time he spends with Aerith, although minimal overall, is actually near equal quantity and quality with Tifa (partially because she will be departing the game soon, so it made sense to make their relationship more sped up). This is part of why she and Aerith are on a near equal playing field when getting to know him all over again, and it's a beautiful thing because they are all different people at this stage in their life.
Tifa does know a portion of the truths of what happened in Nebelheim, but fully admits it is Cloud who ended up saving himself (although I agree she is being super humble within character as she is the one who navigated him through). Even so, Cloud was never not his 'true' self, he was living a life believing he was someone that he is not and falsely remenbering things that truly occured. After the lifestream sequence, he is still much of the same person he was before, but with his experiences with everyone, he discovers more parts of his newer self and with Tifa can be that person without the false memories. Although she was there to help a portion of his false memories come to light (and the most important parts), in totality this is not something only Tifa coupd have done, but was chosen to do and for an excellent reason regarding other more intimate reasons.
Although there were a few biases, I think your video was well thought out, organized and edited!
@@OGBabygurl Thank you for your well thought out comment and for disagreeing respectfully. It’s rare to see respectful disagreements in the fandom especially when it comes to the LTD.
Yes, as I said in the video I would try not to bring up where I stand on the love triangle more than is relevant. The romance element is still part of the story and where they come in as characters. My point was also that they both do so much for Cloud, but are also way more than that. Maybe I said a little too much on my stance. It is very hard to be impartial and remain that way.
They are dual heroines and help with the internal and external conflicts, however, Aerith is mainly the role of the heroine of the external conflict and Tifa is mainly the heroine of the internal conflict. My point was that you can’t interchange these characters for the resolutions of these conflicts. Aerith is the last living Cetra and Tifa has the personality equipped for helping him in the lifestream and the shared traumas with Cloud. I don’t think that one heroine is above the other.
As for the negative traits, I didn’t want to focus on those too much because both women get a lot of hate already. I brought up the ones that existed to show their flaws, how they are relatable and show growth. But also, I could’ve gotten a lot deeper on a lot of things in the video and it would’ve been a much longer video 😅 but that’s still a valid criticism.
As for your last main point, I see where you’re coming from. It is somewhat of a generalization that Tifa knows the true Cloud. When the answer is more complicated than that. Traces of Two Pasts does clarify a lot, though. They were close when they were younger, but Cloud’s insecurities caused him to push away. She is, however, a huge motivator for him and is the cause of the events of the game in the first place because of him misunderstanding what it meant for him to be her hero. Maybe the better phrase would be that she brings out Cloud’s true self. The Remake ultimania talked about certain moments in that game that she brought out his true self. I think in Rebirth one of those moments was their conversation in Gongaga. He was never that vulnerable about what’s going on with him, but he was with her. And in the lifestream sequence she does say that he saved himself, but yes, she’s humble about her role in that of guiding him towards that. Then he says “We finally meet again” or something along those lines. I disagree that Cloud was much of the same after that. I think he was way different after personality-wise, but that is harder to catch because of the OG’s limitations. I think in part 3 it’ll be very apparent. Cody Christian has talked a lot about Cloud’s dorky personality and how he’s going to bring it out more. Idk, we’ll see.
So, maybe, I just need to change my phrasing. But, I don’t think they are on equal playing field at all. Sure, Aerith and Cloud share similar experiences with isolation, but also Cloud doesn’t tell her that. She thinks him and Tifa grew up as besties. Tifa and Aerith can both tell that Cloud’s acting off and is not being himself, but I still wouldn’t say it’s near equal. Maybe if you have higher affinity with Aerith, but in game without that, I don’t think it’s even close. But hey, that’s up to interpretation and opinion.
I can’t speak too much about Zack and Aerith since I haven’t played CC yet, but only have watched playthroughs. But when I researched I found that they spent around 2 years together. Sure, they didn’t travel together, but still that’s a more significant amount of time than the 1 to 2 weeks Aerith spent with the party. Ultimately, though, that doesn’t matter as much because they clearly had something going on and what went on between Aerith and Cloud is heavily debated.
Anyway, thanks for your respectful disagreement. Thanks for not name calling or being hateful. I am biased, but everyone is 😅 I will work on being more neutral, but thanks for complimenting my video. It was a lot of work.
Definitely understand your points and thanks for clarifying! To clarify further in the Ultimania, it is brought up in the Remake series that glimpses of Clouds true self came out with Tifa, but that is not elaborated on in Rebirth as something solely happening with her. In fact, the reasoning for Clouds false persona has a lot to do with Tifa especially due to the mimicry of Jenova when they first encounter each other in Midgar. I think it is clear for all fans that Cloud showed glimpses of his true self with much of the cast at specific times, and this furthers the importance of all of his bonds. Thay being said, it's very important that while Tifa recognizes Clouds events not lining up, she really doesn't know who the true Cloud is. Aerith has no clue of these events and false memories he has, but is the only character to openly recognized he is not his 'true' self, despite not knowing what that true self is. Neither woman truly knows Cloud for who he is, just the idealized versions they think they know or currently see. Being vulnerable is so important for his development, it is just a shame he sort of reverts further from Tifa in the nonoptional sequences thereafter the Gongaga arch. After the LS sequence Cloud is more enlightened, but his personality is much of the same aside from being more humble and ashamed to what previously transpired, not including the further mental illness he suffers from the realities of what happened to Zack and later Aerith outside of the OG.
I disagree with you on the playing field with the two women and Cloud and just as you say Aerith thinks he and Tifa grew up as besties, I think this mirrors the fandom as assuming the same. Again, Tifa incorrectly interprets things she thought she knew about Cloud and responds thinking she perhaps did not know him as much as she thought. Cloud responds that they have time to catch up implying to rebuild those bonds, and this is beautiful. The difference as well is that although Cloud and Tifa grew up together, they only spent a short time of their childhood together being actually 'close'. A time before their real personalities even start to take shape (though it's debated Cloud had a chance to really develop due to his experiments with Hojo). Both are more reserved characters and it makes sense for closeness to develop a little more slowly later. Aerith and Cloud spend an even shorter time of their later years together, but the directiveness of Aeriths character pushes those boundaries and connections a little further and quicker. Tifa and Cloud have a lot of the rest of the compilation to further grow and connect, whereas Aeriths personality with Cloud gave them such a strong bond in a shorter amount of time that is cut even shorter over time. The devs truly show the differences in different types of relationships and meanings of intimacy ( physical, mental and emotional) with both women in the trilogy and I believe this also puts them on a much more neutral field. You don't have to actually know every in and out about a person right away to feel a close bond and connection with them. This bond is further declared in AC when Nomura proclaims that Aeriths consciousness resides within Cloud due to these bonds we create with those we care for. This is part of why she is one of the only people he sees from the LS (aside from one time with Zack in AC) despite all the alternate realities we have going on and different people he loves he have died.
CC is my favorite game so of course I recommend giving it a shot if you have the opportunity! But you're right to an extent, it is implied Zack and Aerith knew of each other and intermittently interacted between 2 years before Zacks disappearance. However in the game itself, without spoilers, their actual time together is much shorter than that. Some of their interactions were clearly very meaningful, but it's almost implied in my honest opinion, Zacks duty came before his relationship with Aerith time and time again even to the extent of putting other people in charge of taking care of her in his stead. Something that also occurs in the Rebirth series with him bestowing her safety at times to Elmyra and Cloud. Not that this wasnt a necessary thing, but The contrast with Cloud was from first meeting her, he took initiative to go after her himself time and time again despite her asking him not to. There's a lot of stark contrasts between her relationships in knowing both men that are very far from being black and white. Neither man's significance is diminished though! But Zacks presence in her life does not simply put Cloud in the clear of not being a potential romantic or even more felt for partner by Aeriths character.
Like you said nearly everything is heavily debatable and that's why I love this game so much even way outside of the romantic tropes! It's a complex story with multiple complex characters. I feel the best way to approach any situation in this game is to acknowledge things are not always as they initially seem. Thanks for the great discussion and video! Looking forward to the next!
@ I will respond with as brief of a comment as possible because I don’t like debating much tbh. I think it’s valuable to see the other side especially when it’s being approached in a respectful manner. Art is subjective and gets interpreted differently. So, I can chalk this up to agree to disagree, but there’s validity in what we’re both saying.
You’ve got a point that the devs haven’t really said much (as far as I know) about how much Cloud’s true self has opened up to the other party members at this point, but he still opens up a lot more to Tifa. The argument that she triggers a lot of his false persona stuff bothers me because it’s not her fault. Cloud developed a lot of traumas and insecurities as a kid because the other village boys hung on Tifa and he failed to save her on Mt. Nibel. Instead of communicating that to her, he made assumptions and acted on his insecurities. They were kids. All this is set up so that the pay off of them working it out in the lifestream would be more powerful.
Yeah, Aerith sees the Zack in Cloud (not personality so much, but in his mannerisms) and sees that something isn’t right. She’s not coming from this from a clear slate either. And we all see the people we fall in love with under idealized lenses. It’s why there’s a honeymoon phase. And Cloud reminds Aerith of Zack.
I agree with you for the most part that it takes Cloud and Tifa a while because of their reserved personalities. It gives them great character developments and arcs and is part of what makes their relationship beautiful to a lot of us. I don’t quite agree with the speedrunning of Aerith and Cloud’s relationship notion, but as I stated in my video she does help him through her open personality. I’ve seen this happen in my own life since I also have an open personality. Cloud still spends more time with Tifa and opens up to her more than he does with Aerith, but like I said, we can agree to disagree. I do agree with you that we don’t have to know a person deeply in order to connect with them. No one knows a person completely. Everyone has personas and facades as per Jungian psychology.
I can’t wait to play CC. I definitely plan on playing it next and hopefully soon. I see what you’re saying about that. But Zack was still a SOLDIER at that time. Cloud was an “ex-SOLDIER” by the time of the events of OG and the retrilogy. Zack had to put his duty first at that point for his job. Cloud didn’t have to because he wasn’t a part of Shinra anymore. At the end of CC Zack’s trying to get back to Aerith. In Rebirth he’s trying to save her, Biggs, and Cloud. He ends up at the church without being prompted to by Aerith. That whole date sequence was juxtaposed with Zack trying to get to her. Again there’s set up going on here and it’s highly likely that there will be a pay off since it all leads to Advent Children and they put Zack in Remake and Rebirth in the first place and juxtaposed his scenes with Cloud’s for a reason. But we’ll see when part 3 comes out.
Thanks for this discussion. It’s nice having intelligent discussions with people from the other side of the debate. I mainly see absolutely ludicrous unsupported head canons that are heavily emotionally charged. But of course that happens on the Cloti side too. I can tell that you understand the game and its complexities and that’s really nice to see.
@SNWSTORM Thanks for the thoughtful responses. And I agree with you, debating this stuff does not usually end in much else but it was really nice to have a civilized conversation for a change. While I have a response and do not agree to many of the points brought up, I can see where you're coming from and respect your view on it. I agree it's best to chalk it up to agree to disagree. This has been going on for a decade or so due to the complexities of every scene and character despite what either of us believe. Really love this game and these characters. Cheers and see you in the next video!!
@@OGBabygurl Thank you for your maturity and thoughtful responses too. It’s definitely hard and rare to have mature disagreements especially in a nearly 30 year old fandom. Even though we disagree, I really respect you and your well thought out opinions. I’ll see you in the next video!
Nah, this is an amazing analysis, great job!
Your videos have been incredible & the love and admiration can be felt for this truly remarkable game(s) & its characters !! ❤️
@@kristaryther5024 Thank you so much ☺️
@ you’re so welcome!! I can’t wait for the next video 🥰
a bit off-topic but i couldn’t get that much into the book bc of all the showering, i know that sounds silly but i have it on kindle and when u search for that word it comes up 48 times… now everytime she mentions showering in the games i freeze a bit from the cringe i felt.
is it just a me-thing? did i focus on the wrong thing, or was there like a subversion i overlooked? or a message i didn’t get? like was it just the author being a bit horny or was there some quirky aspect to it?
Great video; the fashion section was an especially fun take I haven’t seen out of any FF7 analysis to that degree before.
@@Eldoktordoomz Thanks ☺️ I had a lot of fun with that section
Regarding costume choices of the two women, you need to PC Mod Rebirth to have Tifa wear Aerith's clothes and Aerith to wear Tifa's clothing.
Then try to find somebody who knows nothing about either character and ask them what they think about each woman based upon their clothing attire.
See what they say.
Then have them play the game with the mid clothing switch.
Then see what they say.😊
@@DS94everXev what an interesting idea
@SNWSTORM I got the idea after searching for a Tifa mod in Skyrim and sure enough there was one.
Absolutely amazing video! I must watch for all fans I'm gonna share this to everyone I know that's into Final Fantasy 7! Thank you so much for all of your hard work!
@@sisyphus4889 Yes this girl has interesting videos. Watch them all.
Especially the friendship videos between Aerith and Tifa. You have all these ship wars going on between the Fandom, that far too many of them ignore what Remake trilogy did with them.
They made them friends. Og didn't really. Minus their 1st meeting one another. But remake hammered this point home and fans ignore it.
This channel above all others (and ive seen plenty) found the truth that Sqaure pushed for in remake. That Tifa and Aerith are friends.
@@sisyphus4889 Oh my god! Thank you so much! That’s such a huge compliment that really made my whole day! Thank you for your comment and for sharing my video. That really makes all the work I put into this video very worth it ☺️
@@DS94everXev will do!
@@SNWSTORM I really wanted people to see your video since it was so well constructed. I actually posted it on Twitter and had people retweet it. I'm not a very big account but I did notice some mutuals from Twitter on here commented 😆
@ Oh, I was wondering if that was because of you. Well, thank you so much! ☺️
I want to agree with the fashion take on Tifa, but the problem (for lack of a better word) is while yes, the character herself doesn't dress that way in-universe for male attention, as a fictional character she was designed that way for a reason. Japanese men designed her that way for fanservice/sex appeal, let's not kid ourselves. Now as she is an adult character, this isn't really an issue here, but it is still true. As female gamers we need to remember that, especially back then, boys going through puberty were considered the main demographic to sell video games to. I kind of think it's silly to pretend it was done with feminism in mind.
@@KairiKey989 I do see your point. She was created by Nomura who is on record saying that he likes to design attractive characters. And yes, that was true of the 90s. Lots of men know who Tifa is without playing the game because she looks sexy. So, maybe in part it was fanservice and for sex appeal and it would be silly to deny that. But they still subverted that with her personality and her romantic style, which was my original point. They could’ve easily leaned heavy into the stereotypes and made her a completely coquettish character, but didn’t. And I think that’s cool and important to bring up. I was very careful going into this part of the video because it causes controversy, so your criticism is very valid. I focused more on the in universe aspect of it because a lot of men still sexualize her a lot and others sl*t shame her in order to validate ships. So I felt like I needed to bring up these subversions to try to educate these people.
Also, I want to repeat what I said in the video. I don’t think she was dressed that sexily. There are several female characters from the 90s that wore more revealing clothing. But, that doesn’t change the fact that so many people get h*rny over her.
@@SNWSTORM agreed. And to be honest, Nomura designs sexy / beautiful characters of both genders. Who rock lots and lots of belts. I remember a good bunch of girls being absolute simps for Cloud, Vincent, Reno, Rufus, and of course Sephiroth. The latter being maybe one of the rare examples where gamer guys and girls both agreed on a character being hot and powerful at the same time.
Regarding Tifa, one could think that Lara Croft was an inspiration for her outfit if that game didn't come out just one year earlier, leaving too little time for such a design choice.
@@Lylantares oh my god! Such a good point and something I was thinking about too. I go rabid for Sephiroth tbh 😂
Ok. Well go complain about how Cloud and literally every major character (not in Nintendo) look great. Have ripping abs of steel that requires hours of real world work to achieve, yet no game actually represents this proportionally to the time needed to work out for the character.
I mean you don't look like Barret because you lift a spoon.
Where's the complaints about men looking really good?
It doesn't exist.
Because men are fine playing with buff unrealistic representatives of themselves. They are also fine playing as hot women too.
If you don't like to play as gorgeous people in games, Biowares Dragin Age would love it if you bought their game.
But the rest of us like playing as hot looking characters.
And most characters in all games are shallow. Tifa is not. She looks gorgeous and has lots of characteristics to emulate. Appreciate that.
@@DS94everXev You've made quite a lot of assumptions about me sir. I actually very much hate the new dragon age game, and I do like playing as attractive women, my miqote is even modded in ffxiv. I am, however, a woman myself, so I am able to appreciate the female form without seeing women as *just* a sexy body
A great video on why tifa and Aerith have stuck around and continue to inspire storytellers. To add onto your topic about these two defying tropes are the moments that could be taken as commentary on how women can be treated. Aerith and tifa (and even sephiroth[a whole other story]) experience lets just say unwanted attention and exploitation in large part because of their bodies. According to the story from official canon stories, tifa and Aerith get unwanted attention from folks because of their physical traits. Aerith's heritage doomed her and her mom to be forever hunted by shinra which is mostly run by men. Hojo even proposes rape to get her to procreate. Shinra tears apart her mom's body for "science" It reminds me of how real life male scientists abused the bodies of indigenous bodies and many others deemed unworthy. Aerith even shows discomfort when cid calls her "girlie" correcting him "Its Aerith." Obviously cid was not being sexist, but Aerith takes issue with others not seeing her as a person. Cid immediately corrects himself and goes out of his way to help Aerith.
Tifa ignored the boys' romantic overtures in the town growing up. makes sense. she felt happier being one of the guys. i imagine she felt more like an object to be won rather than a boy seriously trying to be get to know her. There is discomfort for young people especially girls seeing guys pine over you when that wasnt an issue before. in fact, nearly all boys (and even cloud) do not understand tifa because they don't talk to her seriously. Cloud has the excuse as he was terribly shy and ashamed of himself (and hated by the town) but the others? They kept wanting to leave the town and to be tifa's savior! they superficially promised to be her knight when tifa didn't really want that. Then when they all left, they forgot about tifa. So much for genuine care.
when tifa is treated by the female doctor, said doctor unethically shows off her injuries to fellow doctors. tifa did not consent to this. But she didn't voice any concerns because she didn't want to upset the doctor who was helping her and seemingly being nice. Its a power dynamic that is wrongful distorted. Said doctor's son also did wrong to tifa and then in disgusting manner, tells tifa "i love you" after everything he did tifa. Its an incel. Her bakery boss even is noted for sexist tendencies heck he hired her because of her looks (although he is patient with tifa).
Tifa finally breaks out from being in debt or working for people who violate her personal spaces not from a man necessarily, but by her new found friends in avalanche which only happened because she became friends with Jessie-a woman who is even more outspoken and flirtatious than Aerith.
As a sidenote, and i'm citing a article that covers motherhood in ff7, most of best adult authority figures for the heroes and even the villain who could be considered to be positive influences on their arcs, are women.
@@bradhorowitz2765 Oh my god! You really nailed it! Traces of Two Pasts really put it in perspective. With Aerith, the Faz stuff made me angry how he basically tried to assault her because she looks like her mother. And for Tifa, I was so pissed when I read about how Dhamini showed Tifa’s breasts to her patients. It made me super happy when Marle told her off. And F*ck Rakesh. At least Manson was honest about how he was using her looks to bring customers, but that’s still gross especially since she was still a minor for most of the time that she worked there. But yeah. There’s so much to say. I actually have 5 video essays about Tifa’s story in Traces of Two Pasts that will be out eventually (once I get all the footage I want) and 3 about Aerith. I really feel like as many people need to learn these stories as possible so that they really understand why it’s not ok to say the sexist things they say about these characters.
Oh yeah, Hojo wanting to breed Aerith forcefully always makes me absolutely sick to my stomach. I consider him absolutely evil and the true villain of FF7.
Thanks for your comment. More people need to know these things.
When subverting tropes becomes a trope