Відео

@@TobyPeterson-r2d Thanks for your comment and for your compliments on my video. I really like your insights into Cloud and Tifa’s Corneo outfits. It was a much deeper interpretation than my shallow hinting of couples outfits. You bring up a really good point that Aerith was really good about trying to draw Cloud out because of her open personality. It’s how I view that too, but at the most crucial point during the Lifestream sequence it was Tifa who knew how to finish the job of bringing out the real Cloud. It’s why I take the stance that both women are really important to Cloud’s development as a character. You presented a really good question. Traces of Two Pasts actually clarified it a bit. They were closer when they were pretty young, but when Tifa started getting more popular, Cloud started to distance himself because of insecurities. That got worse when the Mt. Nibel incident happened and he grew a complex for not saving her. They both misunderstood each other as kids, but they still fell for each other. I think the important thing is that during the course of the retrilogy especially, they are bridging that gap from their childhood and are clearing up these misunderstood impressions of each other. They are healing together. It’s really beautiful to witness. And as another commenter pointed out to me, I really need to stop using the phrase that “Tifa is the only one who knows the real Cloud.” That’s not really accurate and is misleading. The better phrase is that she brings out Cloud’s true self. Thank you for saying that last thing though. I think it’s clear that I’m a Cloti and I see things through a Cloti lens, so it’s really hard to be more neutral when making these videos. Some people think that I wasn’t being neutral and objective enough and I think that’s fine of them to think that. I can always improve. I definitely agree with you though that most of these arguments devolve into that and it’s not healthy at all.

@@BLa-lq2bs Exactly! They are such amazing characters and they have nothing but love and respect for each other too. These remakes really fleshed out their friendship and showed that there’s no bad blood between them. And unfortunately, so many fans don’t get that. I have called out and removed toxic Cleriths, Clotis, and neutral parties who are hateful towards these characters and are acting hatefully towards others for having different opinions from the comment section and the channel. Being hateful towards anyone isn’t ok real or fictional, but more so real people. Sorry, I’m ranting a bit 😅 but it’s been frustrating. But hey, that’s the internet, still doesn’t make it ok.

@@BLa-lq2bs But yes, I’m with you there. Tifa is my favorite video game character of all time, but I adore Aerith too! It’s so refreshing to see a character who is so open and authentic. She’s really inspiring and amazing!

@@SNWSTORM I’ll be honest, as a kid I didn’t care for Aerith very much. But the remake trilogy really made me love her. Specifically Rebirth. I couldn’t believe it lol. The devs did such a good job with her character! All the characters of course, but as an ex Aerith hater (sad, but true) she really won me over. Since Rebirth was “her game”, I’m excited to see what they do with Tifa in pt. 3. They’ve really set her and the story up to just…blow everyone away. Anyway, you get those Tifa Aerith haters! I think it’s safe to say that most level headed fans are OVER the toxicity they bring to the fandom. No one can put in their 2 cents without getting attacked.

@@BLa-lq2bs You’re good. I have a complicated history with Aerith too, but during Remake and Rebirth. Unfortunately, I got sucked in too much with seeing the really delusional takes that the really toxic Cleriths were making that I started to not like her. It took me meeting her VA to realize that I was wrong to let delusional people affect how I was viewing her character. So, I replayed the game and liked her again after removing that toxic lens. I’m very much a Cloti, but I can’t condone hateful behavior no matter what side it comes from. It’s so annoying that we have to keep dealing with this. It does so much harm. But yeah, I’m so excited for part 3. The lifestream sequence is my favorite part of the whole story and after seeing what they did with Gongaga, I know they’re gonna knock it out of the park!

@@Quiettekiyet 😂 about the jump comment. It’s true that character design and fashion isn’t something I see talked about a lot in this fandom (beyond the fan service aspects of it), but it tells a lot about a character. I notice these things because fashion interests me and I wanted to bring it up so more people notice how cool it is and how thoroughly the devs designed these characters. I’m glad that you noticed it too and it’s funny that you had a conversation about it before watching my video. I think there should be more conversations about it because it’s fun.

@@SNWSTORM Oh yes, I totally understand you!!!! I love character design and I love making clothing in real life so I am always interested in seeing how the artist brought elements together in character design. There is a long post about the character design of FFVI on my tumblr blog. :o))) I also plan on making a video about how Squall is peak character design in my eyes and I even quote Giorgio Armani there LOL

@ Oh that’s so cool! Feel free to comment again to let me know when the video is up. I’m very interested in that. Say what you will about Squall, but he is very attractive 😂 I’m interested in the tumbler post about FFVI. I grew up watching my brothers play that game! That’s so cool that you make clothing in real life!

@@ourfamilyaccount I see where you are coming from and I respect your perspective and opinions. To counter what you said: I can’t deny that what you said is a possibility in Remake. However, the whispers were around her at their first meeting and through out the game. Of course we don’t know what exactly they take away at what point, but they appeared in that game to try to prevent the party from changing fate. The more important thing about this is that in Rebirth most of those memories and knowledge are gone. In the sleeping forest before she goes to the forgotten capital she still tells Cloud to focus on finding his real self, the real Cloud she’s been TRYING to find. Besides the idea that she never meets the real Cloud adds more to the tragedy of her death because she never gets to. What you brought up is an interesting possibility, however, and something I haven’t thought about before. The thing about the outfits is it’s something that happens a lot in Korea and Japan. Couples commonly wear matching outfits. That aside, the devs still added this matching outfit for a reason and not to chance. It’s a subliminal message. And that’s the case for their other dress choices as well. And in Advent Children. As far as the other stuff you said, it’s fine to interpret it that way. A lot of people do, but these choices are to pay homage to the OG’s affection mechanic, to show a check-in with Cloud’s relationships with the other members of the party, and to get the player to like Aerith in order for her death to be more felt. It’s not a dating sim and we can’t decide what Cloud does with whoever he gets the date with. With the hotel room, are you talking about the OG or Remake? I know that’s in the OG, but I haven’t ever seen that in Remake. Wall Market in the OG has a lot of goofy things that were changed for Remake. Anyway, we still have part 3 to go and there’s a lot of Tifa stuff in that part anyway, so we’ll see. I do agree, though, that Square has never given a definitive answer. But when you look at things from a plot vs narrative perspective after knowing what happens in the whole game, it becomes more clear. Before then, it’s supposed to be murky because Cloud’s mind is murky and he’s an unreliable protagonist. The LTD itself is a subversion, but I didn’t want to get into that in this video because the focus was more on the characters of Tifa and Aerith and their subversions. Of course it’s not impossible for him to have feelings for both women, but from a plot perspective he’s loved Tifa since they were kids. Anyway, thanks for your comment. I’m glad you enjoyed the video!

@@ourfamilyaccount Just looked into it and you’re right about the hotel room. If you click that option, Aerith rebukes Cloud playfully, but your affection points with her don’t raise. If you choose the other options your affection points go up. The options are mainly there in order to trigger if you get Madam M’s side quest or Chocobo Sam’s which decides Cloud’s dress. It’s not so much an indicator of their feelings.

Thanks for replying. "She never meets the real Cloud adds more to the tragedy of her death because she never gets to", that notion didn't come into mind thanks for your prospective. I assumed during the Aerith and Cloud Gold Saucer date (In Rebirth) that apart of the true Cloud appeared for her in some segments. Maybe I'm looking into areas that wasn't intended by the development though. Thanks for clarifying the matching attire. I was coming from the aspect that it was the hand massage lady or the Honeybee girls that made Cloud's dress and they really wouldn't know or have been aware that Tifa and Cloud knew each other. Yes it may've been more deliberate in the making-of process of the game but to me because the player can have different attire for everyone and that not every outfit is a compliment to Tifa, it just felt like an odd statement to make. I'm glad you elaborated though, I'm more open to your views now. With the hotel comment it occurred in Remake not in the original, sorry I didn't type that before. It did seem kinda jokey in nature but simply speaking for myself if I was hanging out with someone I didn't know very well .. I wouldn't have made that suggestion. I'm just kicking around the idea that the developers might be conveying Aerith and Cloud might've recently met but they are quickly developing a strong bond and are more comfortable during that section of the game. You are correct that the game isn't inherently a dating sim but it does become more difficult when Cloud doesn't express a clean interest in one person. If you take all his side quests as true to the narrative, it showcases a man who deeply cares about everyone in his party and wants the best for them. If the developers just made it obvious I and other fans would have an easier time. My spouse for instance actually likes it not being confirmed, told me it's better if they never confirm who Cloud actually loves so that everyone can speculate for the dawn of time. We will see, the 3rd game cannot come soon enough.

@ Yeah, it’s so murky, but it’s also because Cloud has a bunch of identities in him due to a lot of factors. One of those identities is Zack. But I think that’s also a cool thing because it does add nuance and sparks debate. The debates get very toxic and crazy really fast though. I’m trying to make sure that I’m not being that way myself. At the end of the day, I want the whole party to be happy because they deserve it. I understand where your spouse is coming from. The LTD sparks the most conversation about the game. I think that’s a shame because there are so many more important conversations that the compilation brings up like identity, mental health, and doing our part to help the planet. But, people are usually more interested in relationships. There are many of us, myself included, that want this nearly 30 year old debate to be put to rest because we’re exhausted from it. In either direction. Both women are excellent options. Tifa just makes more sense to me considering how central she is to the plot of the game and Cloud’s motivations. If Aerith ends up being the canon love interest, it doesn’t make as much sense to me considering her fate and the rest of the plot. But if either becomes canon, I would accept whatever it is as long as it makes sense and the other characters get a good resolution. If nothing of this ever becomes canon, I will just accept that this is the FFVII curse and the fandom will have these stupid arguments until the end of time 😂

@@kalin666 Thank you for the pronunciation correction. If I’ll end up saying the word in a video in the future I’ll make sure to say it correctly ☺️

You can shorten that first syllable slightly too like saying T'Ferret. The weasel pet with Tih in front.

@SNWSTORM feel free to ask a jew ;)

@@CaliTrucker The beach outfits are definitely fan service, but I think it’s cool that they reflected the girl’s taste and style. Same with Cloud and Berret. It would’ve been cool to have it affect stats too and not just be cosmetic, so I agree there.

@@worldtradecenter2840 I’ll have to check it out. Thanks for the recommendation.

@@SahirasSenf Thanks so much for your comment. Honestly, my first real exposure to FF7 was watching my brother play when I was in college. I have very early memories of my oldest brother playing before that. I didn’t grow up on the PlayStation. So, I didn’t really get into the LTD then as I was watching him play whenever I was around. It was before Remake came out that I watched a playthrough and at first shipped him with Aerith and was in denial and then switched sides once I knew most of the story after that. Remake and Rebirth solidified it for me. And then finally playing (and beating) the OG and experiencing the lifestream sequence for myself. Honestly, I don’t blame you for being turned off for a while and then going to a neutral opinion. Even though I am a Cloti, I think a neutral stance is a very healthy one. Both sides get very toxic. I try not to be, but I get angry sometimes and probably don’t say the best things. At the end of the day, it’s important to understand that there’s a lot of nuance here to these characters and relationships. I think it’s vital to see and understand that. I think both characters are really amazing and inspiring. I think they’re both vital to the story and that the games are as great as they are because of them. I think that if either girl was never in the game that it wouldn’t be as impactful. And there’s definitely so much more to say about them and the game as a whole than the damn love triangle. I definitely want to talk about other things with this game.

But he's objectively still not the real Cloud when they met. However, I think there's a confusion about what it means to be the real Cloud. He's always somewhat present, he's not never not there, it's just that it's always an amalgamation of other things. However, I do believe that he was genuinely worried for her and definitely cared that yeah, she was about to die, he was genuinely worried, Cloud's just not entirely the real Cloud at that point if that makes any sense. But it doesn't matter, and people need to stop getting hung up on that

@@CalamityStarForce I mean, maybe, but we gotta remember that he first met her while he’s still not mostly himself. Meeting her is not a memory deep in his subconscious of the real him before all the messed up stuff happened to him and he developed this persona. That being said, of course I think their first meeting is still really important to both of them though.

@@sisyphus4889 Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Like, Cloud is obviously broken and messed up during this part of the story and I think the one we finally get to see him come out from under the weight of Sephiroth around Mideel and later in the og though he does shine through at times thanks to the grounding he gets from Aerith and Tifa and the gang. He's like, never not Cloud, he's always Cloud, but the one that deeply cares about his friends and can't stop blaming himself for being weak is trying to get out like the sun through pinholes in Sephiroth's blanket over his eyes. The boy he was is hidden, and despite being so broken, he does remember in clutch moments what he really is, if even only subconsciously, and I think the boy inside is always speaking to him. The grey text in the og is literally his shadow telling him to follow his heart and to ask questions and to protect his friends. They are both more subtle about it and now explicit at times in the Re-trilogy, but if you watch the scene I mentioned, Aerith clearly sees the spark of that boy inside him as she calls out his name. Pay careful attention to the tambre of her words and how she 180'd from fear for her friend to being reunited with him as he shakes Sephiroth's influence off, if only for a moment in a truly deep way. Sure its just Cloud, but that's the aspect of him she was trying to find I think. That's all I meant.

@ Which moment are you talking about exactly? I know that once they’re in the sleeping forest before leaving she tells him to focus on himself, the real Cloud that she’s been trying to find. The key word is TRYING. And that’s the last conversation before she’s killed. I’m not saying that you’re wrong about what you’re saying. You could be right. The devs talked about the moments that Tifa brought out the real Cloud in Remake. They haven’t said anything about that for Rebirth, as far as I’m aware. If you’re right and the “real” Cloud was brought out in that moment, then that’s really beautiful that she found him for a second before her death. Until the devs say anything about that, though, I don’t really believe it because I don’t see in game evidence. But that’s just me.

@@Thundermaceaus That is a really good outfit! I left AC stuff out on purpose as I plan on making a video about it eventually once I get around to reading OTWTAS to really get the full context. Once I do a video on that, I’ll definitely talk about her outfit as I do have a lot to say about it 😉

@@Thundermaceaus I agree with you for the most part. A lot of what you said was the impression I got while playing the game. I think she might even be aware of the multiple realities. She felt Zack’s hand during their trip to the Gi. The only point I kinda disagree with is Zack being the inspiration for NPTK. Nojima said it was about Ifalna, Elmyra, Cloud, Zack, Tifa, and Berret. It’s about her bonds to all these people she loves during her life. I definitely think that Zack is a part of it tho.

@@Thundermaceaus Also, as far as Aerith’s feelings, it’s pretty ambiguous to me because of her saying “I like you Cloud, but then there’s liking and then there’s LIKING.” At best it’s ambiguous and at worst it’s friendzoning. I personally think she likes/loves him as a friend. But, that’s also my read on it.

@@bowz_of_oshu It’s true. And the really crazy shippers miss the whole point of the story as a whole.

@@stardust7104 Ooh! I’d love to! That’d be interesting! I really want to play Intergrade first to grab some footage and then I’ll definitely show her some love too.

subscribed. great work!

@@TetraTerezi That’s a lot of speculation there. In the Lifestream sequence Cloud and Tifa work through it together. They continue to work through it during AC and OTWTAS. All relationships take work, that doesn’t mean that they’re all doomed to fail. But it’s true we don’t really know how they work things out post AC. Thanks for subscribing!

@@tugaygunes4816 Oops! I forgot to respond to this. I admit I find it a little weird too and I’m glad that it wasn’t as much of a thing in Rebirth. That being said, I think the reason why that’s a thing is because when she gets to Midgar and has to work at the steam bun cart for Manson because of her medical bills, she has to stay in a repurposed shipping container as a place to live. The only way she could shower was at a public shower station nearby guarded by an old lady. She had to pay extra and develop a rapport with the old lady to make sure she could have privacy. This whole thing is to show how bad she had it at the start of her life in Midgar to show later when she overcomes her struggles with her debt, pays the lease at the bar, and moves to sector 7 and makes a better life for herself. Having her own place to shower isn’t something she will take for granted since even that basic thing wasn’t something she had for a couple of years.

thx for the thorough answer :3 ig i was looking at it purely as gross bc she’s still pretty young in that book, but the showers highlighting another side of her tragic life is actually a neat idea

@ I don’t blame you for seeing it that way. If handled incorrectly, that is really gross. In the novel as a whole, it’s really clear that there were some very bad people that exploited her. And it’s not romanticized. It makes you feel really angry and feel bad for her, but also proud of her for standing up for herself and rising above it all. It really made me love Tifa as a character so much more. I highly recommend the book as it really contextualizes a lot of things about Tifa and her life experiences before the events of the game. And it ties in to most of her scenes in Rebirth especially whenever she’s alone with Cloud.

i‘ll read it! am at page 200, no stopping now >:3 the part at the beginning where cloud got described as like a weirdo who wouldn’t answer when talked to and be all by himself most of the time was way too real for me, as a nd person my childhood was basically just this, people would talk to me and i wouldn’t respond, that shit showed me a side of cloud that was a bit too uncomfortably relatable. anyways, sry for the ramble, rebirths just been such a nice game, it’s fun sticking with those characters a bit longer!

@ That is too real. Cloud is very relatable in that way. I was also shy as a kid and was too scared to talk to anyone. It really makes him a very lovable character. You’re good for rambling. I do that way too much, so it’s very welcome here :)

@@vakermaker Absolutely. It’s something that either fans aren’t aware of or they twist it to suit their narrative. But yeah, I totally agree with you. It would be a different story and I think it’s really cool and quite genius for them to split the heroine into two.

@@SNWSTORM unfortunately most fans still think that Tifa was only created after the FF7 developers had decided to kill off Aerith when in actuality that’s only partially correct and to be fair I even thought so too until I learned the truth that a character named Tifa was originally gonna be given Aerith’s backstory before the developers split this character into 2 characters. now based on what I also learned awhile ago. I’m not sure you heard about this or not but at some point after they had split the heroine into two characters, there’s a possibility that Tifa believe it or not wasn’t even going to be a playable character. She’s still a martial artist and a bartender but she would have had a minor role in the story. She’d be associated with Avalanche but would only be a support from behind-the-scenes. And her and Cloud would still know each other from childhood but get this: on her back she would have a large scar she got from Cloud but she has no memory of the event. But as fate would have it, after it was decided that Aerith would die in the story, Tifa was give more prominence to the story and the devs made Tifa a core member of our party in ff7. Here’s a video that goes into better detail on the situation: ua-cam.com/video/M44VAid2650/v-deo.html And here’s something that a gives an early description of Tifa that helps back the information given in that video: thelifestream.net/lifestream-projects/translations/2002/early-material-file-character-files-p-518-of-the-final-fantasy-vii-ultimania-omega/

@@vakermaker I had heard of the idea to have Tifa have a large scar on her back from Cloud, but they changed it. I didn’t know the other details though. I’m glad that it was changed and Tifa was given a bigger story and role. I’ll check the videos out. Thanks for the recommendation.

@@vakermaker it probably would have been something akin to the story in FF8 but with the overall plot remaining the same but without Zacks exitence, so Cloud probably would have been an actual SOLDIER. Squall = Cloud, Rinoa = Tifa/Aerith before the split. Seifer = Sephiroth. Ultimecia = Jenova

@@saulmiller422 That’s because I don’t see anywhere that Square has ever said that Cloud and Aerith are based off of Romeo and Juliet. On what grounds? That she dies? Cloud doesn’t. They’re not from opposing families or gangs or opposing sides. There’s no meta commentary on the dangers of young love. There’s not even a love confession or even a kiss. If it’s a reference to Romeo and Juliet it would be the most shallow one. Nojima would write it to be a lot more clever if it was based on that. And where did they say that they took inspiration from Lara Croft or Pamela Anderson? I researched and put in facts and not assumptions. And if I put in assumptions, I stated that they were my opinions. Not saying that they can’t be inspired by them in making Tifa, but there’s nothing that I found of them saying that they took inspo for that, thus, it’s not in my video. Yes, the devs put in the dating mechanic for Aerith’s death to be more felt, BUT that’s a part of the narrative NOT the plot. Go watch DutchDread’s video. He counters all the arguments you may have on this topic.

@@SNWSTORM These people just can't help but self insert their own desires on the character of Cloud. That why they come to these 5D chess convoluted "themes" or twist the characters into being devious or outright evil in order for their head canon to fit into what is actually presented on screen. Honestly if any comparision is to be made to Romeo ans Juliet it would be Zack and Aerith, lol. He's one of Shinras top enforcers, the industrial force that is killing the planet, while Aerith is a Cetra who is in tune with nature. Oh and they both die.

@@SNWSTORM Sakaguchi is heavily inspired by Shakespeare (multiple FF games) and Nomura liked Romeo and Juliet movie with Dicaprio, Danes (1996). There s also Loveless, Caith sith quotes, similarities between R+J and C+A. It s not a secret. U can find more if u look for it. 90s thing is my opinion, because it was everywhere and devs were inspired by western culture a lot

@@Mukation u lost me at "these people"

@@Mukation Excellent point about Zack 😂

@@bradhorowitz2765 Oh my god! You really nailed it! Traces of Two Pasts really put it in perspective. With Aerith, the Faz stuff made me angry how he basically tried to assault her because she looks like her mother. And for Tifa, I was so pissed when I read about how Dhamini showed Tifa’s breasts to her patients. It made me super happy when Marle told her off. And F*ck Rakesh. At least Manson was honest about how he was using her looks to bring customers, but that’s still gross especially since she was still a minor for most of the time that she worked there. But yeah. There’s so much to say. I actually have 5 video essays about Tifa’s story in Traces of Two Pasts that will be out eventually (once I get all the footage I want) and 3 about Aerith. I really feel like as many people need to learn these stories as possible so that they really understand why it’s not ok to say the sexist things they say about these characters. Oh yeah, Hojo wanting to breed Aerith forcefully always makes me absolutely sick to my stomach. I consider him absolutely evil and the true villain of FF7. Thanks for your comment. More people need to know these things.

@@littledreaamer Absolutely! I’ve actually had an experience recently where Tifa’s example in particular helped me help a friend through a very scary situation. I hope we can all have moments in our lives where we can be like Tifa or Aerith to someone else.

@@SNWSTORM agreed. that's so beautiful <33

@@lowgman384 Oh absolutely! I’m an artist and a musician and this game definitely inspires me in those ways too.

@@HavenMayCry Thank you so much! I agree. It makes me sick every time I hear someone tear these women down. And it is especially with Tifa’s appearance, which reaks of misogyny to me. It‘s definitely toxic and I’m sick of hearing people say these things.

@@allia807 Oh my god! That’s so sweet! Thank you ☺️

@@ocean_0602 Thank you so much for saying that! I myself am a Cloti shipper, but that’s not going to override my desire to really dive deep into the story and characters in order to understand them and learn from them. I’m so glad that it’s coming through as I put in a lot of thought and research into it. I’m glad that you feel the same about this topic and so many others as well. It’s really refreshing and amazing to see that I’m not the only one because the insanity that comes out of shippers mouths does clog up a lot of the discussions. It’s such a shame too because this game is so much more than that. I can’t wait to get into other topics dealing with this game like mental health and identity because personally that’s a big draw for me into this compilation. Anyway, thanks for your comment and compliments. It really made my day ☺️

You are putting your own feelings into the character of Cloud. Cloud, the character, never displays any romantic interest in Aerith in neither OG or the remakes, that is all her own doing + the narrative pushing them into romantic tropes. Why? Because it made her murder halfway through the game shocking and unexpected because you, the player, is supposed to think she was the "true" love interest when playing for the first time. And after her death is when Clouds true past is revealed, with his fractured mind having created a persona based on Zack, Aeriths lost lover and that Cloud always was in love with Tifa. The whole Aerith debate stems from the fact that many scenes that actually explains that Aerith was seeing Zack in Cloud in OG were optional and easy to miss. If you don't go to Gongaga, you won't talk to Zacks parents. If you don't hahe Aerith in your party, she won't talk to them or to Cloud outside their house. If you don't go back to the Nibelheim reactor after the Lifestream sequence, you won't see Zack breaking out Cloud and then dying outside Midgar. Not to mention that kids who played the game missunderstood the story and then to this day refuse to acknowledge that they got it wrong, even when Zack is litterally on the cover next to Cloud in Rebirth.

I’m not getting into this argument again, since 1999 I deal with shippers from both sides and I know when they are too one-sided to really grasp anything other then their own favored one to understand that there really *is* a LT. And the game is richer for it. Like I said, this really cheapens any debate, and I kind of regret mentioning it, instead of just keeping to the girls. I will just say this: if you think Aerith and Cloud are just in a platonic and sibling-like relationship, let your partner have the same exchanges and interactions they have in the game with someone else while you watch and see how you feel about it. Like I said, for me Cloud and Tifa are endgame. So if you are arguing that they end up together, we can agree on that at least. Have a good day!

@MrCironn it''s not a shipping comment, it's a plot and story comment. If a woman talks to me like Aerith talks to Cloud it doesn't say anyting about my personal feelings on the matter. Johnny hits on Tifa, so that means Tifa is interested in him? That's the argument you're using on Cloud. Again: Look at Clouds responses and reactions to Aerith when she pushes anything that hints of romance on him. He ignored her or litterally tells her to stop. He is not written to be romantically interested in her. Period. There is litterally a quest were Cloud tells her to stop trying to make their quest into a date and it ends with her appologising. Tifa is not the endgame, she's the only game for Cloud. He's written to be in love with Tifa since he was a child. And Aerith isn't in love with Cloud either, she's in love with the man he reminds her of. People who think it is both or Aerith are wrong. It really is NOT a debate.

Again, I will not delve into this debate. If you think Tifa and Johnny’s relationship is even in the slightest way comparable to Aerith and Cloud’s you are just too far gone.

Mukation is right. Aerith ship fans don't see that they are viewing Aerith from their perspective and desires not as Cloud's.

@@fortify1123 I mean, that’s fair. A lot of people do that. There’s no right or wrong way to grieve. In the context of this situation, tho, Tifa was the closest to Aerith in the party, so that’s why I say she’s taking it the hardest. But Cloud can’t even process it. He repressed it and replaced it with a false memory of him being the hero and saving her.

@@h0neyb4dger7 Thank you so much ☺️ happy new year!!!

@@bleakcentuar98 That is a really cool point. I admit that I don’t normally have her in my party because I prefer Cloud, Tifa, and Yuffie’s play styles, so I didn’t know those nuances. I had heard that she gets almost game breaking powerful, so thanks for bringing that to my attention. That is a really cool detail and subversion that I absolutely missed 😅

Now i have DBZA moment stuck in my head thanks to this white/black mage talk. Aerith heals Tifa: "ive healed you. i'm a nice girl." Tifa: "and whats to stop me from punching you for that snide remark?" Aerith: "Because if you touch me, your not getting back up again. that's right i'm your white mage. and nobody fu&@!s with the white mage-" Sephiroth Stabs Aerith* Sephiroth: "Oh i feel real good about myself right now. "

@@KairiKey989 I do see your point. She was created by Nomura who is on record saying that he likes to design attractive characters. And yes, that was true of the 90s. Lots of men know who Tifa is without playing the game because she looks sexy. So, maybe in part it was fanservice and for sex appeal and it would be silly to deny that. But they still subverted that with her personality and her romantic style, which was my original point. They could’ve easily leaned heavy into the stereotypes and made her a completely coquettish character, but didn’t. And I think that’s cool and important to bring up. I was very careful going into this part of the video because it causes controversy, so your criticism is very valid. I focused more on the in universe aspect of it because a lot of men still sexualize her a lot and others sl*t shame her in order to validate ships. So I felt like I needed to bring up these subversions to try to educate these people. Also, I want to repeat what I said in the video. I don’t think she was dressed that sexily. There are several female characters from the 90s that wore more revealing clothing. But, that doesn’t change the fact that so many people get h*rny over her.

@@SNWSTORM agreed. And to be honest, Nomura designs sexy / beautiful characters of both genders. Who rock lots and lots of belts. I remember a good bunch of girls being absolute simps for Cloud, Vincent, Reno, Rufus, and of course Sephiroth. The latter being maybe one of the rare examples where gamer guys and girls both agreed on a character being hot and powerful at the same time. Regarding Tifa, one could think that Lara Croft was an inspiration for her outfit if that game didn't come out just one year earlier, leaving too little time for such a design choice.

@@Lylantares oh my god! Such a good point and something I was thinking about too. I go rabid for Sephiroth tbh 😂

@@DS94everXev You've made quite a lot of assumptions about me sir. I actually very much hate the new dragon age game, and I do like playing as attractive women, my miqote is even modded in ffxiv. I am, however, a woman myself, so I am able to appreciate the female form without seeing women as *just* a sexy body

@@DS94everXev Your "not in Nintendo" disclaimer also amuses me. Link is widely considered highly attractive, and people simp over grandma Purah's new design so much they forget she canonically isn't interested in the protagonist at all, so how exactly are Nintendo characters not attractive? And for the record, I am skinny hourglass woman with a large chest irl and I get hate for it all the time. I just think women are more than their body. This doesn't mean I want all game characters to be ugly. Veilguard made me laugh with how I can't even create myself. But don't pretend a character like tifa's design is somehow feminist. Even as you talk about her characteristics worth emulating, all you talk about is her appearance. My appreciation of characters isn't so shallow. I appreciate who they are far more than their appearance alone

@@OGBabygurl Thank you for your well thought out comment and for disagreeing respectfully. It’s rare to see respectful disagreements in the fandom especially when it comes to the LTD. Yes, as I said in the video I would try not to bring up where I stand on the love triangle more than is relevant. The romance element is still part of the story and where they come in as characters. My point was also that they both do so much for Cloud, but are also way more than that. Maybe I said a little too much on my stance. It is very hard to be impartial and remain that way. They are dual heroines and help with the internal and external conflicts, however, Aerith is mainly the role of the heroine of the external conflict and Tifa is mainly the heroine of the internal conflict. My point was that you can’t interchange these characters for the resolutions of these conflicts. Aerith is the last living Cetra and Tifa has the personality equipped for helping him in the lifestream and the shared traumas with Cloud. I don’t think that one heroine is above the other. As for the negative traits, I didn’t want to focus on those too much because both women get a lot of hate already. I brought up the ones that existed to show their flaws, how they are relatable and show growth. But also, I could’ve gotten a lot deeper on a lot of things in the video and it would’ve been a much longer video 😅 but that’s still a valid criticism. As for your last main point, I see where you’re coming from. It is somewhat of a generalization that Tifa knows the true Cloud. When the answer is more complicated than that. Traces of Two Pasts does clarify a lot, though. They were close when they were younger, but Cloud’s insecurities caused him to push away. She is, however, a huge motivator for him and is the cause of the events of the game in the first place because of him misunderstanding what it meant for him to be her hero. Maybe the better phrase would be that she brings out Cloud’s true self. The Remake ultimania talked about certain moments in that game that she brought out his true self. I think in Rebirth one of those moments was their conversation in Gongaga. He was never that vulnerable about what’s going on with him, but he was with her. And in the lifestream sequence she does say that he saved himself, but yes, she’s humble about her role in that of guiding him towards that. Then he says “We finally meet again” or something along those lines. I disagree that Cloud was much of the same after that. I think he was way different after personality-wise, but that is harder to catch because of the OG’s limitations. I think in part 3 it’ll be very apparent. Cody Christian has talked a lot about Cloud’s dorky personality and how he’s going to bring it out more. Idk, we’ll see. So, maybe, I just need to change my phrasing. But, I don’t think they are on equal playing field at all. Sure, Aerith and Cloud share similar experiences with isolation, but also Cloud doesn’t tell her that. She thinks him and Tifa grew up as besties. Tifa and Aerith can both tell that Cloud’s acting off and is not being himself, but I still wouldn’t say it’s near equal. Maybe if you have higher affinity with Aerith, but in game without that, I don’t think it’s even close. But hey, that’s up to interpretation and opinion. I can’t speak too much about Zack and Aerith since I haven’t played CC yet, but only have watched playthroughs. But when I researched I found that they spent around 2 years together. Sure, they didn’t travel together, but still that’s a more significant amount of time than the 1 to 2 weeks Aerith spent with the party. Ultimately, though, that doesn’t matter as much because they clearly had something going on and what went on between Aerith and Cloud is heavily debated. Anyway, thanks for your respectful disagreement. Thanks for not name calling or being hateful. I am biased, but everyone is 😅 I will work on being more neutral, but thanks for complimenting my video. It was a lot of work.

Definitely understand your points and thanks for clarifying! To clarify further in the Ultimania, it is brought up in the Remake series that glimpses of Clouds true self came out with Tifa, but that is not elaborated on in Rebirth as something solely happening with her. In fact, the reasoning for Clouds false persona has a lot to do with Tifa especially due to the mimicry of Jenova when they first encounter each other in Midgar. I think it is clear for all fans that Cloud showed glimpses of his true self with much of the cast at specific times, and this furthers the importance of all of his bonds. Thay being said, it's very important that while Tifa recognizes Clouds events not lining up, she really doesn't know who the true Cloud is. Aerith has no clue of these events and false memories he has, but is the only character to openly recognized he is not his 'true' self, despite not knowing what that true self is. Neither woman truly knows Cloud for who he is, just the idealized versions they think they know or currently see. Being vulnerable is so important for his development, it is just a shame he sort of reverts further from Tifa in the nonoptional sequences thereafter the Gongaga arch. After the LS sequence Cloud is more enlightened, but his personality is much of the same aside from being more humble and ashamed to what previously transpired, not including the further mental illness he suffers from the realities of what happened to Zack and later Aerith outside of the OG. I disagree with you on the playing field with the two women and Cloud and just as you say Aerith thinks he and Tifa grew up as besties, I think this mirrors the fandom as assuming the same. Again, Tifa incorrectly interprets things she thought she knew about Cloud and responds thinking she perhaps did not know him as much as she thought. Cloud responds that they have time to catch up implying to rebuild those bonds, and this is beautiful. The difference as well is that although Cloud and Tifa grew up together, they only spent a short time of their childhood together being actually 'close'. A time before their real personalities even start to take shape (though it's debated Cloud had a chance to really develop due to his experiments with Hojo). Both are more reserved characters and it makes sense for closeness to develop a little more slowly later. Aerith and Cloud spend an even shorter time of their later years together, but the directiveness of Aeriths character pushes those boundaries and connections a little further and quicker. Tifa and Cloud have a lot of the rest of the compilation to further grow and connect, whereas Aeriths personality with Cloud gave them such a strong bond in a shorter amount of time that is cut even shorter over time. The devs truly show the differences in different types of relationships and meanings of intimacy ( physical, mental and emotional) with both women in the trilogy and I believe this also puts them on a much more neutral field. You don't have to actually know every in and out about a person right away to feel a close bond and connection with them. This bond is further declared in AC when Nomura proclaims that Aeriths consciousness resides within Cloud due to these bonds we create with those we care for. This is part of why she is one of the only people he sees from the LS (aside from one time with Zack in AC) despite all the alternate realities we have going on and different people he loves he have died. CC is my favorite game so of course I recommend giving it a shot if you have the opportunity! But you're right to an extent, it is implied Zack and Aerith knew of each other and intermittently interacted between 2 years before Zacks disappearance. However in the game itself, without spoilers, their actual time together is much shorter than that. Some of their interactions were clearly very meaningful, but it's almost implied in my honest opinion, Zacks duty came before his relationship with Aerith time and time again even to the extent of putting other people in charge of taking care of her in his stead. Something that also occurs in the Rebirth series with him bestowing her safety at times to Elmyra and Cloud. Not that this wasnt a necessary thing, but The contrast with Cloud was from first meeting her, he took initiative to go after her himself time and time again despite her asking him not to. There's a lot of stark contrasts between her relationships in knowing both men that are very far from being black and white. Neither man's significance is diminished though! But Zacks presence in her life does not simply put Cloud in the clear of not being a potential romantic or even more felt for partner by Aeriths character. Like you said nearly everything is heavily debatable and that's why I love this game so much even way outside of the romantic tropes! It's a complex story with multiple complex characters. I feel the best way to approach any situation in this game is to acknowledge things are not always as they initially seem. Thanks for the great discussion and video! Looking forward to the next!

@ I will respond with as brief of a comment as possible because I don’t like debating much tbh. I think it’s valuable to see the other side especially when it’s being approached in a respectful manner. Art is subjective and gets interpreted differently. So, I can chalk this up to agree to disagree, but there’s validity in what we’re both saying. You’ve got a point that the devs haven’t really said much (as far as I know) about how much Cloud’s true self has opened up to the other party members at this point, but he still opens up a lot more to Tifa. The argument that she triggers a lot of his false persona stuff bothers me because it’s not her fault. Cloud developed a lot of traumas and insecurities as a kid because the other village boys hung on Tifa and he failed to save her on Mt. Nibel. Instead of communicating that to her, he made assumptions and acted on his insecurities. They were kids. All this is set up so that the pay off of them working it out in the lifestream would be more powerful. Yeah, Aerith sees the Zack in Cloud (not personality so much, but in his mannerisms) and sees that something isn’t right. She’s not coming from this from a clear slate either. And we all see the people we fall in love with under idealized lenses. It’s why there’s a honeymoon phase. And Cloud reminds Aerith of Zack. I agree with you for the most part that it takes Cloud and Tifa a while because of their reserved personalities. It gives them great character developments and arcs and is part of what makes their relationship beautiful to a lot of us. I don’t quite agree with the speedrunning of Aerith and Cloud’s relationship notion, but as I stated in my video she does help him through her open personality. I’ve seen this happen in my own life since I also have an open personality. Cloud still spends more time with Tifa and opens up to her more than he does with Aerith, but like I said, we can agree to disagree. I do agree with you that we don’t have to know a person deeply in order to connect with them. No one knows a person completely. Everyone has personas and facades as per Jungian psychology. I can’t wait to play CC. I definitely plan on playing it next and hopefully soon. I see what you’re saying about that. But Zack was still a SOLDIER at that time. Cloud was an “ex-SOLDIER” by the time of the events of OG and the retrilogy. Zack had to put his duty first at that point for his job. Cloud didn’t have to because he wasn’t a part of Shinra anymore. At the end of CC Zack’s trying to get back to Aerith. In Rebirth he’s trying to save her, Biggs, and Cloud. He ends up at the church without being prompted to by Aerith. That whole date sequence was juxtaposed with Zack trying to get to her. Again there’s set up going on here and it’s highly likely that there will be a pay off since it all leads to Advent Children and they put Zack in Remake and Rebirth in the first place and juxtaposed his scenes with Cloud’s for a reason. But we’ll see when part 3 comes out. Thanks for this discussion. It’s nice having intelligent discussions with people from the other side of the debate. I mainly see absolutely ludicrous unsupported head canons that are heavily emotionally charged. But of course that happens on the Cloti side too. I can tell that you understand the game and its complexities and that’s really nice to see.

@SNWSTORM Thanks for the thoughtful responses. And I agree with you, debating this stuff does not usually end in much else but it was really nice to have a civilized conversation for a change. While I have a response and do not agree to many of the points brought up, I can see where you're coming from and respect your view on it. I agree it's best to chalk it up to agree to disagree. This has been going on for a decade or so due to the complexities of every scene and character despite what either of us believe. Really love this game and these characters. Cheers and see you in the next video!!

@@OGBabygurl Thank you for your maturity and thoughtful responses too. It’s definitely hard and rare to have mature disagreements especially in a nearly 30 year old fandom. Even though we disagree, I really respect you and your well thought out opinions. I’ll see you in the next video!

@@kamen_mann 😂😂😂

@@kristaryther5024 Thank you so much ☺️

@ you’re so welcome!! I can’t wait for the next video 🥰

@@mohammadalfattal2902 Ooh! That’s a really good point about Berret! I definitely want to show our big lovable guy some love soon. He’s a very fascinating character with a lot of depth and subversions that were especially fleshed out in the retrilogy.

@@SNWSTORM indeed

@@Eldoktordoomz Thanks ☺️ I had a lot of fun with that section

@@JudasLegion666 Honestly, I thought about adding it, but ultimately decided not to because I felt like it was going into the LTD too much and I didn’t want to make the video about that (even though I’m definitely not shy about being a Cloti). But since you brought it up, I don’t see the harm in sharing my opinion. I think there’s merit in what you’re saying. Aerith is playful, but also doesn’t have a lot of experience with being in social settings and the politics that are there. I think she’s also trying to get a reaction out of Tifa. Aerith’s smart. She knows that Tifa cares deeply about Cloud. Aerith brought Cloud to the clock tower in the first place to basically tell him to make up with Tifa and to not take her for granted. She also knows that Tifa doesn’t talk about her feelings and is trying to push her out of that more. People talk a lot about how Aerith helps break through some of Cloud’s shell, but she also does that with Tifa. It comes with the territory of having an open personality. I know this because I also have an open personality and have seen firsthand that it doesn’t take that much effort for me to get people to open up. Of course I could be wrong about this interpretation, as I’m not Aerith and can’t read her mind, but it’s my read of the situation. I agree with you though; Aerith didn’t mean any harm by it. She has good intentions. And Tifa is very much what you said. The contrast is very fun and makes them really work well as friends. Thanks for your question and for bringing it up in a non-confrontational way. It was fun to think about.

@@jenniferchough Ooh! Thanks for sharing that neat detail with me! I love learning about the languages of flowers, so I think that’s really neat. The forget-me-not does really suit her and her relationship with Zack. I’m wanting to play Crisis Core next, so I’m looking forwards to seeing more subtle details like that when it comes to them. ☺️ Thank you for your comment and for liking my video. It makes me so happy to connect with you all over this game and talk about cool details like this ☺️

@@SNWSTORM oh hey I noticed you had some scenes clips with Korean subs and was wondering and then I read you’d been living in Korea as of recent times! That’s really cool; I’m currently in Korea, working, but will move back to the States soon. I was just pleasantly surprised to hear you had lived here! Anyway, glad to see your channel was highly recommended to us on Twitter and I look forward to seeing your future ideas and thoughts in more videos.

@ 어머! That’s so cool! Yeah, I taught English there for 4 1/2 years. Remake came out during that time, so I got the Korean/Japanese version but still English audio. Rebirth came out while I was still there, but I was preparing to move at that time. That’s so cool that you’re there currently. I really miss Korea, so that makes me happy. I haven’t been on Twitter in a long time, so that makes me happy that my channel was shared there. Thank you! I’m more excited to put out more videos now ☺️

@@SNWSTORM I’m sure you know but Twitter has increasingly become more abrasive so it’s prolly best you’re not on there a lot. I do, however, recommend Bluesky as an alternative if you’re wanting to connect with the fandom and community there instead; it’s a lot more peaceful and you have more control over your presence and what you’re exposed to. Either way, glad to have found your channel. Happy new year!

@@jenniferchough I’ve heard that people are going to Bluesky instead. I’m not very good about social media, but I’ll check it out. Happy New Year! I’m glad you found my channel too ☺️ it’s really great to connect over this game

@@somebodysnightmare That is such a cool point that I didn’t even think about. There is absolutely a meta element to it. Aerith is absolutely external to the point of subtle 4th wall breaking and Tifa is strictly internal to the game. Such brilliant work from Square. Thanks for bringing that up and for loving my video. I decided to make a video like this because I noticed that certain people who think similar to me notice these subversions and intricate style of storytelling, while a whole other part of the fandom completely misses it in order to validate what they believe the story to be. I felt like it was a serious disservice not only to the story and the developers, but to these beloved characters. And there’s so many misunderstandings that I really wanted to clear up because it makes me sad to see what people reduce Tifa and Aerith to. I’m so glad that there are people like you who see this too and we can all talk about it. There’s so much artistry to this game that needs to be appreciated. So thank you! 🙏

@@sisyphus4889 Yes this girl has interesting videos. Watch them all. Especially the friendship videos between Aerith and Tifa. You have all these ship wars going on between the Fandom, that far too many of them ignore what Remake trilogy did with them. They made them friends. Og didn't really. Minus their 1st meeting one another. But remake hammered this point home and fans ignore it. This channel above all others (and ive seen plenty) found the truth that Sqaure pushed for in remake. That Tifa and Aerith are friends.

@@sisyphus4889 Oh my god! Thank you so much! That’s such a huge compliment that really made my whole day! Thank you for your comment and for sharing my video. That really makes all the work I put into this video very worth it ☺️

@@DS94everXev will do!

@@SNWSTORM I really wanted people to see your video since it was so well constructed. I actually posted it on Twitter and had people retweet it. I'm not a very big account but I did notice some mutuals from Twitter on here commented 😆

@ Oh, I was wondering if that was because of you. Well, thank you so much! ☺️

@@Smolharuharu Honestly, I wouldn’t mind this. I’m very much a Cloti shipper, but I do think that the Aerti ship is a wholesome and fun one. And I think that Cloud and Zack would be cute. And honestly, there’s a lot of chemistry between Cloud and Sephi. I can’t deny that.

@@DS94everXev what an interesting idea

@SNWSTORM I got the idea after searching for a Tifa mod in Skyrim and sure enough there was one.

@@annasambuco3877 oh 100%! Reading Traces of Two Pasts really put things in perspective about how rough Tifa has had it, but she continues to fight despite all of that. She truly is a very strong person, but it’s very heartbreaking that she keeps losing the people she loves. I just want the best things for her 😭

@@elfsong713 Oh I totally agree! As a woman I can’t stand people reducing women in media to just love interests. I’m very much a Cloti, but I love Aerith too and it is baffling to me the kind of shit I see shippers say about them. It’s a complete nightmare of blatant lies and mischaracterizations about both Tifa and Aerith. And a lot of misogyny. Yeah, it’s really not fun. The debates are super anxiety inducing and it gets so toxic so fast. It’s nuts that it’s gotten this far that the VA’s had to say something about it. Smh 🤦‍♀️

@@elfsong713 They’re my favorite games too! And yeah, there’s so much more stuff to talk about that’s fun than this stupid LTD because the games have so much depth to them

@@SNWSTORM when I first started playing, the Aerith shippers were so vocal that I seriously thought she was the one. But as I played on, it's become clear that he cares romantically for Tifa, and while he deeply cares for Aerith, her flirtation is more of an annoyance. I've left groups and blocked people because of their toxic posts. No, the developers aren't going to read your fanfiction and write the story the way you want. The actors are just doing their job. They are portraying their roles the way they were written; they are not going to take your side in some furious shipping debate. They have no say over what happens to their characters so leave them alone. I am looking forward to part 3, but am also bracing for the apocalyptic meltdown I suspect certain fans will have when things don't go their way. They are so sure of things I just don't see happening. So I'm going to do my best to ignore them and block them out when the time comes.

@ Oh it’s gonna be hilarious when part 3 comes out and Tifa will find the real Cloud in the lifestream and they’ll have seggs under the highwind in 4k. I’ll be there with the popcorn. But yeah, it’s the absolute delusion and hubris that they think they know better than the DEVELOPERS about Cloud and Aerith is astounding. Like go to fanfiction if you don’t like it. Keep your head canon and stop harassing the people who understand the story. But yeah, I’ve been removing comments and blocking people too because this is my channel and I don’t want that toxicity here. And it’s so bad. Like some of the things I’ve seen them make up is macabre. And dumb writing if the developers would write it that way. I think the way they wrote it since the OG to subvert certain romantic tropes to make the actual love story a subversion that’s a crucial part of the actual plot is absolutely brilliant. And the narrative that Cleriths create is absolute cliche and terrible writing. The developers have said since the very beginning that they weren’t going to change major things to the actual plot of the story. So, no, they’re not going to change what actually happens in the plot of the story to appease the most toxic people in the fandom. So, yeah, it’s really annoying. And I only expect it to get worse, but at least we can block.

@SNWSTORM From the Final Fantasy games that I have played so far, tragedy and loss seem to be central themes. I think part of what makes people connect with the original FF7 was coming to love a character, and then having to experience grief and loss along with the rest of the party. Having that emotional impact is a really important part of that game. If you completely undo that, it loses all its impact. It changes from something real that we all have to face, to wish fulfillment that's disconnected from reality. I haven't played the OG and I don't know what's going to happen in part 3, but I trust the developers who made one of the best-selling games of all time to tell the story the way they want. I hope it will all make sense.

@@bwdsword Thank you for watching the video and for your comment. I agree with everything you said and in fact, I’ll have a video about a lot of what you’re saying out next week. As a woman, I’m such a fan of how they developed these characters. But also as a woman I hate how the fandom misunderstands these characters and reduces them to love interests/rivals when there’s so much in game evidence that that’s not the case at all. It makes me so happy to see that there are so many people commenting on my video that see that too! So, thank you for seeing that too and saying something about it.