Tifa and Cloud in Gongaga Breakdown and Analysis

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  • Опубліковано 29 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 17

  • @cdfromthep8290
    @cdfromthep8290 10 днів тому

    Great video! So many points I didn't notice or didn't fully get the context of, this vid explains everyone's motivations so well!

    • @SNWSTORM
      @SNWSTORM  10 днів тому +1

      @@cdfromthep8290 Thank you so much for watching ☺️ I’m glad that this video helped you with that. It definitely took a couple of playthroughs and a lot of research because of the complexity of this game, so that means a lot that I was able to help provide some clarity through this video ☺️

  • @stephenb3026
    @stephenb3026 4 години тому

    I liked the point you made about those who try to subvert destiny usually end up inadvertently facilitating its completion, very God-of-waresque. I was hoping you would touch on the implications of Tifa gaining faith in Cloud this early in the story, its something I havent seen discussed too much and it is a massive change from the original game.

    • @SNWSTORM
      @SNWSTORM  2 години тому

      @@stephenb3026 That is a good point that I didn’t touch on that very much and maybe it’s because I think it’s complicated. I definitely think that she does have faith in Cloud, but she’s also keeping a close eye on him as he is very clearly struggling. I also think she’s trying to show him she has faith in him to try to keep him from falling apart, but she’s still unsure about his stability. I know that she sees the good in him even when she almost died because of that, but it’s still a tight rope that they’re walking, so she’s trying to keep him together hoping things won’t snap.
      I was looking through footage last night for a new video and as I watched the last cutscene, I saw her reaction to Berret saying “ok, we’ll trust you.” She didn’t seem sure at all and maybe that was because her really good friend just died and Cloud doesn’t seem affected by it at all, but it seemed like there was less faith there. So, I don’t think she trusts him completely, but it is a lot more nuanced than in the OG and does need to be talked about more. This video was focused on Gongaga, but I’ll make sure when I talk about other parts of the game (especially the ending) I’ll keep this kind of context in mind.
      Thanks for the comment! It really got me thinking deeper about this ☺️

  • @tubbyforever88
    @tubbyforever88 27 днів тому +2

    This is an amazing video and deserves more views

    • @SNWSTORM
      @SNWSTORM  27 днів тому

      @@tubbyforever88 Awe!! Thank you!

  • @RyanOstrowski-eh6ft
    @RyanOstrowski-eh6ft 29 днів тому +5

    do you think this is setting up for part 3 when tifa save cloud with his denial?

  • @kage2907
    @kage2907 28 днів тому +3

    One thing that I'm personally believing is that it's not so much Sephiroth that is twisting Cloud's mind. But it's Jenova. Because I think in most cases that Sephiroth actually has a meaningful scene with Cloud and the party. There is a piece of Jenova that is there and transforms to fight the party.
    With that, all the quirkiness from Cloud that we see and probably get annoyed by, is just Jenova trying to fit a mold to present to everyone, since her cells are infused inside Cloud.
    I guess all in all, we play as Cloud but it's actually we're playing Jenova playing as Cloud!

    • @SNWSTORM
      @SNWSTORM  28 днів тому +1

      @@kage2907 Interesting theory that definitely has a lot of plausibility to it. Sephiroth is a complicated case since he is the biggest victim of Jenova considering his conception. Ultimately, he is basically her son and has inherited her abilities in a sense, but this is a good point. The Sephiroth we see is the Sephiroth that is the result of her and the number she did on him. I think this is a yes and no situation. I believe that they’ve become one and the same in many ways, but that is something to think about. How much is him and how much is her? That’s the beauty of this game. There’s so much material for theory crafting and asking these kinds of questions.
      As for Cloud, it’s also complicated since he has DID and that affects the Cloud we see until Tifa helps straighten out his mind in the livestream. There’s too much going on in his head, but definitely a lot of it is due to Jenova/Sephiroth trying to take over. But it is also his perceptions of Zack and him acting out being the hero he always wanted to be for Tifa and everyone else he cares about.
      Anyway, thanks for your comment and sharing your theory. It’s a very interesting way to think about this story and the characters.

    • @kage2907
      @kage2907 28 днів тому

      @SNWSTORM it's all theory fun haha. Hope you make more videos! Hopefully SE won't make us wait too long for part 3.

    • @SNWSTORM
      @SNWSTORM  28 днів тому +1

      @@kage2907 100%! Theory crafting is so fun and deepens the experience. Thanks for watching my video. I can’t wait until part 3!

  • @JudasLegion666
    @JudasLegion666 28 днів тому +2

    Small correction.. not "like they were", they were 🫣
    Unless two people, who clearly care about each other, glance at each other's lips while leaning into each other, while all alone, for any other reason 😁 (this isnt a ln actual correction or criticism btw 🤣)
    That's was a good wholesome watch. Thanks, looking forward to more 😁
    Enjoyed this

    • @SNWSTORM
      @SNWSTORM  28 днів тому +3

      @@JudasLegion666 thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed it ☺️ I completely agree with your clarification and don’t see it as criticism. I decided to phrase it that way because of certain people who are ridiculous and don’t get it. The body language was definitely clear and was by far my favorite scene of them together.
      Thank you for calling this wholesome ☺️ that made my day! There’s definitely more to come

    • @Mukation
      @Mukation 19 днів тому +1

      @@SNWSTORM It's so sad to see people self-censoring themselves like that due to the handful of toxic people who simply got the story wrong and refuses to accept it.
      Like yes, in OG as a selfcontained game you could make the case that people were free to selfinsert themselves onto Cloud and assume he (as in you, the player) fell for Aerith aswell, but the compilation makes it abundantly clear who the character of Cloud Strife is in love with and the struggle he has with Aeriths death is his guilt for failing to save her, not the desire to be with her romantically.
      At no point in Advent Children or On the way to a smile does he claim anything other than the desire to be forgiven for (in his own opinion) failing her and Zack.

    • @SNWSTORM
      @SNWSTORM  19 днів тому +1

      @ Thank you for saying this. I 100% agree with you here! It’s vile how rabid people have become over this and twisted the in-game narrative to suit their own self-insert. I don’t want toxicity on my channel, so I am careful with what I say, but I know it’s the internet and unavoidable.
      Like, yes, Cloud does like Aerith as a person and a friend. She does do a lot for him to help push him out of his awkward shell. But, the fact is that because of Zack, everything that’s going on in Cloud’s mind and her death, it’s just too complicated and there’s not enough time for anything more to develop. Plus, Cloud doesn’t really do anything to show any sort of romantic feelings towards her and usually pushes her advances away.
      Whereas he does show romantic feelings towards Tifa and initiates some moments that aren’t “optional dating mechanic” scenes. The devs are showing that and are being more clear about that. They’re showing their history and that their feelings have been there since childhood. I read Traces of Two Pasts and I know Tifa’s story of how she fell for him when they were kids. I plan on making 5 videos about her story. I hate how people mischaracterize her and her intentions in order to vilify her and make Aerith the better choice in their minds. I think it’s sick because Aerith is kind and she adores Tifa. They are genuine friends and she wouldn’t want people to talk about her like that anyway.
      And yes! Yes! Yes! I have watched Advent Children and I plan on reading On the Way to a Smile. In the movie he didn’t say anything about being in love with Aerith and that was why he was sleeping in her church. These people even say that he wanted to die so he could be with her. Like that is a sick level of delusional right there. Cloud has a complex of not being able to save people, which triggers him and causes him to regress. Which is pretty realistic when you have his kind of mental health struggles. When he realizes that he couldn’t find a cure for Denzel’s geostigma and contracts it himself, this is what happens. He gets triggered and then blames himself for both Aerith AND Zack’s deaths. It makes him get survivor’s guilt as well and think he doesn’t deserve to be happy. And the whole movie he’s trying to be forgiven by BOTH of them even though they already have and in fact think that there is nothing to forgive. She wants him to forgive himself. Once he is able to do that, he’s able to let them go and they’re all able to move on. And he can finally be happy with Tifa and the family they created together without feeling that survivor’s guilt.
      It’s really sad that people have missed the point when there’s been an entire compilation telling this story. And it’s all just because people hate being wrong and want to be nasty to everyone who understands the plot. I’m glad that you understand it very well and commented this. It really shows your support because on the internet if we share opinions we have to stick together because of how nasty people are about, let’s face it, fictional characters. Which, if you think about it, is quite silly. It really shouldn’t affect and bother people enough to show the kind of vitriol I’ve seen. Me shipping two fictional characters together shouldn’t affect anyone else’s life.
      Anyway, thank you so much for commenting this and supporting my video and channel by doing so. I’m so glad that you understand the story. It gives me courage to be more forthright about my opinions about these characters and their relationships despite how toxic people are. You’re a real one 🤍

    • @Mukation
      @Mukation 19 днів тому +1

      @@SNWSTORM Exactly, these are fictional characters and i could not care less what fictional woman a fictional man ends up with, i just expect the story to make sense and the story along with the compilation simply doesn't make sense if "Clerith" is supposed to be the intended canon.
      The fact that like 25% of traces of two pasts Tifa portion deals with how Tifa litterally realises she is in love with Cloud. Then that the short story 2000 Gil to be a hero deals with Cloud being in love with Tifa, which are compilations part of the remake trilogy. Beyond all that, there was already On the way to a smile, which has Tifa litterally monolouge how she sees how Cloud is falling into depression and is slowly shutting her out (litterally saying he had opened his heart to her 2 years ago). She also asks him while he's sleeping "do you love me".... Which means they slept in the same bed, otherwise are we supposed to assume that she what, snuck into his room like a ninja? And for him to not at all be phased that she's there when he wakes up and she asks if he loves Marlene?
      Like why would Cloud and Tifa live together with kids prior to Advent children if they are not a couple...? Why would Tifa question if they are a "real" family if they weren't together....? Why would they bother including Zack in his Lifestream flashes through out the movie and not just Aerith? Why would they bother make an entire game with Zack showing how he and Aerith fell in love and that he litterally only died because he wanted reunite with her? Why would they include Zack in the remake trilogy? Why would they have Tifa be the only one he can kiss on the gondola? Why would Tifa be the only one he almost kisses in Gongaga? Why would he not "confirm" his feelings for Aerith in the church when she confesses to liking him....? Why would Aerith convey that she knows were the two of them stand, while she still is unsure about her own feelings? Obviously because she realises Clouds feelings for her are not romantic. (She likes Cloud, but can't pinpoint if that like is romantic or not.... Or rather if the romantic feelings she feels are for Cloud or for the man he reminds her of AKA Zack....).
      Like IF it was intended to be Aerith that was the woman Cloud loved, there are sooooo many ways the story could have been written to convey that instead both in the OG game and in the compilation. The simple reason for why she is pushed as the "obvious" love interest in the narrative in the OG game is because it made her brutal murder so unexpected and shocking....... It really isn't deeper than that.

    • @SNWSTORM
      @SNWSTORM  19 днів тому

      @ YES 🙌 you are so right. I need to read all of these btw. But absolutely correct on everything. Aerith’s whole character arch is about the external plot of the story, which is about saving the planet from Sephiroth. Her being the last Cetra and her connection to the planet is the most important thing for her character. Her role being diminished to being the tragic love story is completely missing the point. She was supposed to die for this external plot to work. But also yeah, it was meant to be shocking and to increase the stakes for the players and the characters in game. And narratively the story is full of subversions. If only the OG existed we have this: 1. For the first 3rd of the game people expect Aerith to be the main love interest, but after the livestream sequence it becomes clear that it’s Tifa. 2. From the beginning until then, we all think he’s a soldier first class and therefore the “hero” until we realize with him and Tifa that he never was a soldier. 3. In the Midgar section the main villain is Shinra, but then it’s revealed to be Sephiroth and Jenova. The plot is full of these subversions and that’s what makes this story so compelling narratively. So, it is frustrating beyond belief that people don’t understand this and have been doing mental gymnastics for 27 goddamn years! And we now have so much material in the form of books, movies, prequels, and remakes where we are no longer relying on interpreting text on a screen of a game of chibi polygons where so much is lost in translation. There’s no excuse! People are missing the point because of cognitive dissonance.
      All your examples are on point because the writers, especially Nojima, didn’t have to write all these scenes and details. They absolutely shared a bed! Logically it wouldn’t make any sense if they didn’t considering these scenes. And yeah, absolutely they didn’t have to spend so much time in Crisis Core fleshing out Aerith and Zack’s relationship unless it was important.
      Oh my god, don’t get me started on the copium they have about the Gondola dates! It was always meant to be a mechanic and the devs said that all dates were outside of the canon, but they were all reflections of how Cloud felt about each member of the party at that point in time. I played all the dates at high affinity. Berret was encouraging him to make the first move before it was too late. Yuffie told him that Tifa had a crush on him before he left Nibelheim. Aerith is only starting to sort out her confused feelings about Cloud and Zack and only admits that she wants to get to know the real Cloud, which is what she said in the OG. And then she holds on to him and he wants to pull away. And then with Tifa he does make the first move like Berret wanted him to and let her know that he felt the same way. The difference is stark and the overall messaging all says the same thing, but Cleriths hate that they kiss so they throw the same “none of the dates are canon” rhetoric and once again ignore everything else. I’m just tired!
      And yeah, I read that whole scene of him and Aerith at the church as still vague about where they stand. Because I don’t know exactly what kind of “liking” she’s referring to. It’s still ambiguous and fodder for self-inserting. I definitely interpreted it as only friendship, but it also seemed wishy-washy to me like it always has been. And Cloud never said anything; you’re right. He never really had a deep conversation with her like that and opened up to her, whereas he has with Tifa many times. And she knows that she has to die anyway and it’s gonna be hard for Cloud. Yet, Cleriths are so fixated on their interlaced handholding because “it’s more romantic in Japan than kissing” which doesn’t make sense to me. I lived in Korea for 4 1/2 years, which is a different country sure, but I’ve also been to Japan and there are so many similarities, but no. Men are men. It’s absolutely a nonsensical defense. I can’t wait until part 3 with the lifestream sequence and under the highwind where it’ll be 4k and no room for misinterpretation, but I know that even then they won’t shut up and continue to be annoying and harass anyone who has a different opinion 🙄 that is backed by canon materials and understanding the story.

  • @skins4thewin
    @skins4thewin 16 годин тому

    Lol and ppl try to say this game has good writing... It's written like a bad Saturday morning cartoon! It's cliche & corny, & written way too much like a bad Anime for my tastes. Can't stand it.
    For one, how tf was she breathing all that time? One minute she's fine another she's coughing up Mako? And why is she in the Fetal position? It's all just very bizarre.
    The worst part of all is just how convoluted & badly written the entire story is. So so many important plot moments are not laid out for the player well at all... The entire thing is sort of a mess of clues that the player has to put together themselves.
    Like, neither Tifa or Cloud even mentions the significance of the "incident" & that it changed their lives forever. Setting the prescedent that this was a turning point in their lives is PREEEEETY important for their entire plot, and this is just for starters. I could go on and on and on. This game is just a MESS of terrible writing. How ppl can continue to praise it is beyond me.

  • @drb6771
    @drb6771 Місяць тому +1

    👏👏👏👏👋👋🙌🙌✨✨🌠🌠🌠🌠🌠🌠🌠🌠