A locomotive who's time would never come and may now be running out! The Alco MRS-1
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- Опубліковано 5 бер 2024
- Pacific Southwest Railway Museum:
www.psrm.org/
TEM locomotive
Sigman CC BY-SA 3.0
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKP_cla...
www.google.com/search?q=cc+by...
Former Soviet Railways rs-1
Sergey Nemanov CC BY-SA 2.5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALCO_RS...
www.google.com/search?q=cc+by...
Alco RSD-1
Harvey Henkelmann
UA-cam:
Randy Houk
Alco/GE mrs-1
• RSX-4/MRS-1 #2104 in t...
EMD MRS-1
• "Run around" at Miller...
• "Run around" at Miller...
Aaron McCreight
- ALCO MRS-1 Texas State Railroad #8 in 2016
• ALCO MRS-1 Texas State...
p0 - Авто та транспорт
My apology's on getting the dimensions for standard gauge wrong. I left out the 4feet and confused the 8 in. as feet.
The Alco MRS-1 Must Be Preserved. And HO scale models Must be Produced of them.
Shapeways has a 3D printed shell and side frames in HO that fits the Atlas RSD4/5 mechanism. I have one and it looks great.
Pacific northwest resins made some resin shells of it a couple years ago but I think he stopped making kits. Might see some on eBay from time to time
9:57, I noticed and Error. You said Standard Gauge is 8ft 8 1/2in. It’s actually just 4ft 8 1/2in. Just pointing it out for you.
I was about to say that's about 4 feet too wide on the American track gauge
Also, the Soviet gauge was and is 5 feet or 1524 mm. This is the same gauge prevalent in the US South prior to the Civil War, and was favored by George Whistler, the American engineer hired by the Tsar to construct the Moscow to St Petersburg railway, the first trunk line in Russia. This established the standard for subsequent Russian and Soviet lines.
@@robertprice7246Dang Typos! I do them as well!
@@fmnutThe different gauge (on purpose) also made it harder for an invading army to use the USSR's railroads against it.
@ReggieArford That was a result, not a reason for the choice. The modern Russian railway network solidified around the Saint Petersburg-Moscow railway, built in 1842. There, the Tsar established a committee to recommend technical standards for the building of Russia's first major railway. The team included devotees of Franz Anton von Gerstner, who pushed to continue the Tsarskoye Selo gauge, and engineer Pavel Melnikov and his consultant George Washington Whistler, a prominent American railway engineer. Whistler recommended 5 ft (1,524 mm) on the basis that it was cheaper to construct than 6 ft (1,829 mm) and cheaper to maintain than 1,435 mm (4 ft 8+1⁄2 in). His advice won over the Tsar.[6][7]
At the time, questions of continuity with the European network did not arise. By the time difficulties arose in connecting the Prussian railroads to the Russian ones in Warsaw in the 1850s, it was too late to change.[6]
Battle ready locomotives.
That's a pretty cool bit of history, Peter. I'm going to have to get down to the Texas State Railroad and check out the one they have. And I Agree that any remaining examples must be preserved and/or restored.
"The idea, is genius. The execution, is preposterous." -My words for MRS-1 project. Because it is a solution for a problem that never existed.
If a railway museum or a shortline railway had an EMD MRS-1, well, no problem at all to restore it as in good or even perfect condition. You can search parts for the 16-567B easily even in this day or even upgrade it to 16-567C. But if it is an ALCo, you have so much choice which is confusing. You can choose :
1. Replace the 12-244 with 12-251
2. Keep the 12-244 block but fits 12-251 internals
3. Scrap it
The main reason is the engine. Generators, traction motors, etc. is good because GE made it, not ALCo by themselves.
Our problem with at the Pacific southwest railway museum is actually the opposite.
We have 2 of the E. M.D's, which are going to be hard to restore because the wheels have been worn down and we don't have replacements, but with the Alco we believe the prime mover is still in running condition because it was taken out of service for body rust the was becoming a hazard. And if the prime mover was in need of work we have to spare 224F's sitting in the yard for it
This ALCo MRS1, was known here in Australia, as the 35 and later the 45 class, in New South Wales. These were powered by the 251 series engine. A.E. Goodwin and Son, were the first company outside America and Canada to be licenced by ALCo to build their locomotives. And they built many of them, for N.S.W. and South Australia, some 636's were built for the iron ore mines in Western Australia. You should do a program on ALCo's in Australia. There's a fair few still running here. Some still on revenue service. They were Co-Co configuration, and used mainly as freight engines.
Thanks for the info, much appreciated.
I thought they looked like a 45/600 class!
@@kenfowler1980 i know ssr still has i believe 602 still in service but theres still a couple Alco 48 class still in service with PN
The NSW 45 class and SAR 600s were based on the Alco DL 541 export model. It and the similar DL 535 were derivatives of the MRS1 design, but not direct copies.
Nothing like the sound of an alco prime mover!
4ft 8& 1/2 inches for US standard gauge.
Yep. 8' 8 1/2" would be a truly wide gauge. Russians only were 5' gauge.
Brunel's broad guage GWR in Blighty was 7' 0 +1/4", and that was pretty big by any standards
I ran a few of these when I worked on the Alaska RR back in 75 and 76. They were fun to run!!!!
You mentioned the ‘Army Transportation Corps.’ ‘Corps’ is pronounced as ‘Kor,’ not ’Corpse.’ Other than that, interesting documentary.
I am a model railroader, it’s too bad that there has never been a plastic model made in HO. There was a brass locomotive, but I have not seen one offered for sale in 40 years.
Shapeways has a 3D printed shell and side frames in HO that fits the Atlas RSD4/5 mechanism. I have one and it looks great.
Another very informative video. Thanks for doing all of the work to put it together.
You should do a video on the Alco RSD-16, export variant of the RS-11, with the Bo-Bo trucks swapped for Co-Co export bogies gauged at 1.676mm (w/ a shortened fuel tank ofc), it was made specifically for the Argentine Railways.
From 1957 until 1959, 130 engines were made in Alco's Schenectady plant; Despite most of them being around 62 year old, there's around 70 surviving engines that are still pulling freight daily in both state and private hands. It would be cool seeing a vid on what are probably the oldest US-Made Alco fleet on revenue service.
Awesome video. I never knew these existed. Thanks for the knowledge!
You did my alco s proud again sir, good job
Thanks!
10:00 Four Feet, I believe you meant to say... 4 feet 8 and 1/2 inches... John
Yes I believe standard gauge is 4 feet which is 56 inches
@@TexasRailfan21-RailfanRyan (oy) Standard gauge: 56.5 inches or 4 feet, 8.5 inches.
@@maestromecanico597 got it I wasn’t 100% sure about the exact measurements but now I know thanks
@@TexasRailfan21-RailfanRyan I used to grill my students to memorize standard gauge. If you can remember that you can remember anything.
@@maestromecanico597 wow that’s cool that you’re a teacher I’m curious to ask if it’s a Railroad class that you teach? back in 2019 I did a six month online conductor training course for a program sponsored by BNSF called NARS which stands for national Academy of Railroad sciences on the very last week I trained with other classmates on a real railyard I passed with flying colors with a certificate of 57 hours of hands-on experience
I was a "teacher" at a phone support center that was in Utah at the time.. the Heber Valley had one of these critters hauling their winter excursions... Is the video at the end of the vid from there? Or one of the others?
Another reason the EMD 567 not used for the MRS1s was the fact that that demand for the 567 was so great, it was the prime mover of choice for the US Navy submarines and LSTs (tank landing ship), that EMD production could not meet all demands and the navy use was considered an extreme priority.
we had a RS-1 with MD&W Railroad for years until some where in the 1990s when the crank shaft bent. it had sat in the yard for a couple years until a private party bought it and put several pieces on low boy trailers. it was then rebuilt then put in a museum, there are photos on ebay of it (MDW Minnesota Dakota & Western Alco RS1 Locomotive #15) we still have 2 operating alco S-2 engines, and there were a couple others that weren't so lucky to have survived over the years and were sold for parts or scrap.
"Six axle truck with a center powered axle" Wow! I'd like to see one of those! The largest I've seen was a four axle truck, which was also known as a D arrangement. All you've shown were three axle trucks with a center powered axle which here on Earth is known as a C arrangement.
A-1-A truck = two axles powered, center not powered.
As always, great historical analysis.
Good info!!!!
That museum where that locomotive is that's engine 2104 is where they filmed a segment for the show there goes a train part of the video series made by Dave Hood entertainment I used to watch it when I was a kid the segment was that the train was leaving and Dave was the brakeman and the dispatcher was calling the train to say there was an emergency there was a car on the tracks Dave tried to contact the engineer but had the luck getting through the radio wasn't working he lost your one passenger car climbs on the roof of another walks to another walks to the cab and stops the train and the car is unscathed I don't know how many people actually remember that but I certainly do even today at the age of 32 I still enjoy stuff from my childhood like the original Thomas the tank engine there goes a train and very sort of little things here and there anyway just thought I'd let you know
Yep that is the one. It was "There goes a train" many scenes were shot at PSRM where we are now working to restore 2104 seen in the video.
@@Ozzy66733 if y'all managed to get her up and running again you should staged the whole event again
My very first train ride was behind an MRS-1, no. 2089 to be exact. I spent some time trying to find that locomotive and document it for the railfan community. But I then found out in 2016 it had been scrapped.
We had 2 at Eastern Shore RR aka Bay Coast RR. We never used them due to their being prone to derailing on our track.
The Soviet TeM 2 loco was a copy of the MRS1. It is still in service in many countries.
Never knew we made locos to go over seas
Very similar to the New South Wales 48 class and South Australian 830 class Alco locomotives here in Australia, several of which are still in revenue service 😊
Nicely done and a worthy cause. I've never worked on an MRS-1. That said, my guess is that it should be rather easy to maintain...except for that thing under the hood. I'd recommend finding something else like a Cummins QST30 or QSK38. Better parts availability. Better reliability. Better fuel economy. And, best of all, you can probably get someone else to pay for the transplant!
The 244F in it still works. It was downed for rust issues. There are also two spare 244 prime movers for parts seen in the pictures during the video.
@@Ozzy66733 I was thinking long term. I can still get new parts for a 251. Not so much for a 244.
@@maestromecanico597 I would love to locate parts for the 251 because we also have an RS-32 with a 251 that we hope to restore after this MRS
@@Ozzy66733 Fairbanks-Morse Engine owns the rights to the 251. It is still used in maritime applications as well as emergency generators for nuclear power plants (where I got my 251 cert from a retired ALCo rep). There are also many non-OEM parts available.
@@Ozzy66733 Fairbanks-Morse Engine still manufactures the 251 as it is still used in maritime vessels and emergency power in nuclear power plants. I got my 251 cert in Beloit, Wisconsin, from a retired ALCo rep. There are other non-OEM parts available from various vendors.
I rember one being at the San Diego railway museum I could be wrong
Correct. The pictures are from the museum. We are working to restore it.
@@Ozzy66733I rember going there when I was in kindergarten saw it on there gos a train and told mum nd dad when we whent for a holiday there we had to go there
Okay, there's a good bit wrong here. To explain the two main points though:
2:23 Russia had, during WW2, some 200 coal mines in the entire nation, with 1945 data reporting that at the time they had a coal reserve of about 12 trillion tons of coal at their disposal. That is not, in any way, shape, or form, scarce. Also, water isn't an issue there either, as most every station had access to clean water for refilling tenders on locomotives. This was more than enough for their overall number of locomotives, with a total national number of only 500 locomotives of various types being present in the entire nation.
8:10 That is not based off the MRS design. In fact, that's one of the surviving lend-lease RSD-1 locomotives that were sent to Russia. They weren't a new design in the least. The Russians loved the RSD-1 locomotives, and copied them into multiple later designs that exist today.
The miners were largely conscripted into the war effort for the most part, making the coal harder to come by even with replacement miners. Also, transportation was bad in most areas in USSR before the war, especially by land as the Germans would find out when they tried to invade over land. This meant getting the massive amounts of fuel water and coal, through deserts and wide expanses, required to run the steam engine almost impossible. Diesel locomotives were easy to keep fueled and running which is why they were utilized The locomotive that appears at 8:10 IS an alco ge mrs-1 2104 and is owned by the pacific southwester railway museum and is the subject of this video.
@@alcobufff No, it's not. That blue and yellow one, is the one from the wikipedia article. As the image notes Former Soviet Railways Да20-09 (DA20-09) on exhibit at the railway museum in former Varshavsky terminal -- Saint Petersburg, Russia. Originally built by ALCO as a model RSD-1 in 1944 and exported to the USSR.
It is NOT an MRS locomotive in any way, shape, or form. It's a Lend lease locomotive. The MRS design? It wasn't designed until the 1950's. Well after Lend-Lease ended. Prior to that, the locomotives that were being shipped out? They were the USATC s160 class. A coal fired steam locomotive. And coal was not hard to come by. That reserve I mentioned, is already mined and stockpiled coal.
The whole MRS design came about because, by the time Alco were approached by the government for new locomotives, they'd stopped production of steam locomotives, and instead were building diesel locomotives. By 1945, after the war had ended, and restrictions on production of 'new' designs had stopped, Alco was able to wind back its production of steam locomotives in favor of the more profitable diesel locomotives. The RS series being a highly popular design, which was making a substantial amount of money for the company.
@@KibuFox The time code you linked (8:10) takes the video to a pic of mrs-1 2104, when it was still painted brown, you have the wrong time code. As for the blue and yellow rsd-1, that is located at time code 5:10 were I DO describe it as an ALCO RSD-1 that was sent to the USSR under lend lease, NOT an MRS-1, and talk about how Joseph Stalin took a liking to the model after its performance pulling his train to the pot stand conference and its reverse engineering into the TEM type.
The reason to send the RSD-1 to Russia was because the supply route had to run from the Gulf of Hormuz via Iran and Kasachstan to the frontlines in western Russia, this is a very arid region and water supply for steam locomotives had always been a problem there, the diesels offered a much more convenient way of doing things, especially since diesel fuel was not a problem in this oil rich region.
FYI
There were some MRS1 in Korea and possibly the Europe while the majority were stored.
It seems the WW2 fleets were used at bases until the Army decided to "sell them off" and stored/cacooned units were put into service at bases.....
Another famous use of Alco + EMD MRS-1? Was booster hauling for the USAF @ Vandenberg.....
1950's Federal lease to the New Haven after Hurricanes and spring flooding.....
It makes me happy that the MSR-1 from "There Goes a Train!!!" is still around ☺️☺️☺️☺️
Me too. I woukd also like to see her running once again, even with the Leslie RS5T horn and using the old USAF paint scheme.
Looks like nswgr 48 class alco branch line locomotive from Australia
Thanks for the research. Not sure if uou mentioned it, but all Alco RS1 that were delivered to railroads were resuisitionned, modified then exported. Railroads got newnones later on. Also one of those militsry MRS1 was used....as a crash test dummy, full speed against a nuclear container to test strenght of container that obviously was free of nuclear waste. The tape wad shown on tv. Is it on YT ?
British railroad did the szme kind of tests. Thankd for the story of history.
I love ALCO MRS-1 Trains! They look handsome to me! Don't you call it ugly duckling! I love Alco MRS-1 Trains! MRS-1 Trains are not ugly they're Handsome, even they don't make them anymore.
Actually, I was referring the current condition of 2104, the MRS-1 locomotive that the Pacific Southwest Railway Museum: is trying to get back in service.
Thanks for watching!
Metal side down - are you a motorcycle rider? Everyone loves their Alco smoke!
Alco's 251 is still being produced by Fairbanks
Well, he tried it least.😮
EDM made a batch of extre low peofile locomotives that ended up at CN. I wonder of these were from that trial.
Nope! Those were just EMD's from the GMD (London Ontario) Cateloge for export.
The US Army did have other Low Profile Diesels for Deployment.
The SW8 was notionally deployed. There was the Davenport (designed)/Whitcomb serial #-ed/BLH (Baldwin) RS4TC, and the GE single Narrow Gauge #3000 Testbed
Did the mrs 1 have the alco 244 or 251?
244
Who has the 801? Where trying to get the 805 running in Orrville, Ohio
"Corps".
Not six axle trucks. Six wheels, three axle trucks.
@ 10:00: Standard gauge as 8'81/2"??? REALLY?!
Should've reviewed, proofread, and edited before posting.
OMG oh really! Sorry, no time machine.
Your voice sounds AI
STANDARD GAUGE IS what?????????????????????Come on?
Whose, not who's
Yreka already scrapped one they didn't own. . . Hopefully, this one doesn't go away, too 😅
I bet a bunch more would be around if they had a 567
Russia had (as still has?) no coal or water? Really?
I'm referring to the vast unpopulated expanses, including deserts, that the RSD type locomotives were operating in. It was easer to keep just one fuel, diesel, then both water on coal in these cases.
Thanks for watching!
A rather abrupt-sounding delivery.
they got 2 of them at the nevada northern RR. not running. pretty rough shape
I'm fairly certain that's my dad at the throttle of 2104 in the video at the end. We had swapped some fuel injectors to get it running and were hunting down an issue tripping a ground fault relay under load. We eventually found the issue to be degraded traction motor lead insulation from water collecting under the deck plates. but the project seemed to stall out not long after.