Alco PA The Complete Story 2.0
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- Опубліковано 19 вер 2024
- New improved narration, more details.
Dogger Bend Railway UP Big Boy
• big boy 4014 stream Un...
gmpullman :D&H Alco PA
• Delaware & Hudson Alco...
baldwinloco12: Alco RS-1
• Rare ALCO RS1 #292 in ...
rollingswitch: Alco RS-3
• ALCO RS3 Pair Almost L...
Alco 60 tonner William Hunter CC BY 2.0
en.wikipedia.o...
Alco DL 109
(DVD) New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad Volume 1 - A & R Productions
Note: the original publishers website (www.classicrailroadvideos.com) seems to be defunct.
NW3
Wikicommons Akampfer CC BY-SA 3.0
commons.wikime...
FM sub apposed piston engine 1 Atlant CC by 2.5
upload.wikimed...
Trains sim classic (footage);
dovetailgames....
NPR 190
NOYB#1 CC BY 2.0
commons.wikime...
Museum of the American Railroad D&H alco pa shell.
www.historictr...
DL109 video
(DVD) New York, New Haven & Hratforad Railraod Voulume 1: A & R Producions
Website defunct, avalible from 3rd party retailers.
Alco PA's in mexico
(DVD) Those-Incredible-Alcos-Volume 1 (diesel dinosaur delights): Pentrex
pentrex.com/DV...
Pacific Southwest Railway Museum: 244 prime mover
www.psrm.org/
The Museum of the American RailroadAlco PA under restoration pics www.historictr...
My apologies! When I was speaking of the alco DL109' production, I meant when the United States entered WWII which was 1941 not the start of the war which was 1939. 1941 was the year the war production board took control of US production 10:59.
The New Haven roster 43 FA-1s, 5 FB-1s and 26 PA-1s. All built in the late '40's and all gone by the time I was born in 1958, replaced by Alco RS-3s, RS-11s, EMD FL-9s and FM C-425s.. The last locomotives purchased were the GE U25Bs in the late '60's.
The D and H is probably the best looking paint scheme on the PAs. Excellent video!
Agree……with Santa Fe a distant second 👍
Excellent video…….very informative as always 👍
Same here!
I almost have to agree, but probably because I have a ridiculous bias in favor of the color blue. But they were indescribably gorgeous in the blue, still resembled their previous ATSF livery, and enabled me to actually see them operating on borrowed time..
I vote for the Southern Pacific or Nickel Plate
The resurrection of Montreal - New York City passenger service in 1974 was called "The Adirondack". The Montrealer was overnight passenger service over Central Vermont across the Lake Champlain.
You've done a great job with this video. You consistently produce great content and this is a prime example!
Thanks very much!
The D&H had a remarkable locomotive roster, not only for the sleek Alco PAs, but also the giant
steam locomotives they used for heavy freight tonnage.
A truly remarkable railroad! 🚂
If not for the D&H there would be no PA's or sharks left at all, with the exception of the export units!
Thanks for watching!
The locos from the old days cause they looked so much better the locos we got now.i love the lines of the rounded stream line shapes of the units.
I love your Alco videos. The PA's, FA's and FPA's are my favorites
If you’re ever curious I’d recommend having a look at the alco export DL500s such as the SA 930 class and the NSW 44 class in heritage operations. It’s a beautiful sound the alco 251
Export models made it also to Spain, Portugal and Greece within Europe, several are preserved in operational condition. As for now there are 3 MLW built classes still in use in Greece.
I was a a Swing Clerk timekeeper on the one day the books had to be on the train to Mobile via St.Louis. The office was in the large receiving area for the main engine shed, with a massive overhead crane that could lift the housing off the palette, exposing the entire engine for replacement. GMs would be pushed in with rods poking out, never Arcos. The Santa Fe, more than likely, hooked up the Arcos before going west over Raton Pass, but there were many running GM&O very long freight on the flat between Chicago and St. Louis, or KC.
31:35 To "forge" a piece of metal is to heat it, pound it, and deform it into the desired shape. There's no "chiseling" involved until the VERY last step - "machining" is the process of *cutting* a shape from a piece of metal. The two are very different. Alco fixed the problem by forging the crankshaft, not machining it.
True, and forgings usually start as a casting that is "hammered" (for lack of a better term) in a die that is shaped like the final part. This aligns the grain structure of the metal and compresses the grains as well, leading to a much stronger part. After the forging process, the part is machined in the critical areas to final dimensions. In the case of a crankshaft, the machining is done to the bearing journals and nose and tail.
Awsome video. I live about 7 miles from Sayre PA, one of Alco PA's old haunts. I guess what ever Erie had as well as D& H and DLW would have passed near by as well.
We had Alcos here in Australia specifically in the state of New South Wales. The first mainline diesels were the 20 unit Alcos of 1951 but built in Canada due to the high cost of American dollars at that time with an AIA+AIA wheels arrangement and being very similar to a US switcher design. They could work light weight passenger trains and freight trains but struggled on heavy freight trains. The units usually worked in pairs but their multiple unit jumper cables only had 21 pins where as later diesels all had 27 pins. Their engine was an Alco 244 and subsequent Alco diesels were all of the Co-Co wheel arrangement. Next was the 6 units of the 43 class of 1956 with was a Goninan-Alco-GE again with the Alco 244 engine. The 100 units of the 44 class 1957 Alcos had the 251B engine originally with GE 731 traction motors but later with AEI 253 or 254 traction motors. The the 165 48 class of 1959 with an Alco 251B The the 40 units of the 45 class with Alco 251C engines. 40 units of the 442 class of 1970 with an Alco 12.251C engine and lastly the 50 units of the 80 class of 1978 with a 12.251CE engine.
Alco had an Australian agent and builder AE Goodwin Limited who built the 44, 48, 45 and 442 class of Alco locos the 80 class were built by Commonwealth Engineering after AE Goodwin's demise. The state of Victoria was a GM only state and Victorian railway enthusiasts loved to come up to NSW to film Alcos in action and vice versa but NSW also had GM's too.
It may seem odd that a state that had relied so much on Britain for it's steam locos should go "American" for diesels. Only one class of diesel loco for NSW came from Britain the 10 units of the 41 class and they were a dismal failure. After that horrible experience British diesel locomotive manufacturers were forever shut out of the standard gauge scene in Australia.
The red PA demo set was absolutely gorgeous.
I also read that EMD actually sent factory engineers to key customers to get to the root cause of any early issues!
Delaware and Hudson never owned any dome cars. They leased 2 from the Canadian Pacific.
Wow you've done your homework here Beautifully presented and narrated...great to see passion
Thanks! It comments like these that keep me going!
Bravo. Well done👏 I'll have to pull out my PA1/PB1/PA1 NYC the next time I post🚂🇨🇦🇺🇲🙋
Your statement about Alco's production being consolidated at Schenectady NY, is false, the other shop for production until 1969 was the Montreal located Alco Montreal Locomotive Works.
I was talking about the merger that created alco, which involved several smaller US based locomotive manufactures and took place before the company bought MLW, as a subsidiary.
Thanks for watching!
Once again you have provided an informative, historical account of the ALCO company.
Thanks!
Nice story but you need to do more research on the subject of the prime movers. The 241 was started before the attack on Pearl Harbor. Shortly after the war production board mandated a halt to further development. By 1944 they allowed that development to continue. However the management at Alco was not satisfied with the progress and began the development of the 244 series. You got the problems with the crankshafts and bearing issues but Alco decided to develop their own turbochargers, the 510 and 710 for 12 & 16 cylinder 244s. Several of the features in the 241 series, such as bearing caps and fuel lines were applied to the 251 series. A great deal of material on this is in book Alco A Centennial Remembrance by Richard T Steinbrenner. Along with many other historical information.
They are an engine that once You see it You never forget it and want to know more, It is a Very Handsome Engine ALCO did Good Here! Thank You !
Well done video covering ALL the issues that were set against the poor PAs before a wheel even tuned. Hard to get ALL the facts straight, and some will criticize but that's an HOUR of data you sorted out! That said, ALCO had to totally rebuild their business model, and compete with a product/technology they were not even close to being set up to manufacture with GM (aka The Borg) lurking about gobbling up marketshare with the internal combustion engines and manufacturing styles they had perfected on autos and trucks. GM didn't have to discard steam car production in the middle of a war which needed ANY and ALL products from them. Hmm, FORD did however make all those B24s at Willow Run which was turned to auto production after the war, but that was brilliant foresight, from shrewd ol' Henry I reckon. But I digress.
Good looking, but the F units were more sleek. These looked kinda chunky up front.
There's a running ALCO RSD1 at the North Alabama Railroad Museum just outside Huntsville, Alabama.
I grew up watching the New Haven, which owned a bunch of them. I saw them pulling varnish initially, freight later on.
great job on my alcos once again sir,great job
This was really a good watch. Thanks. 😊👍👍
So now I know why my con cor n scale PA's make so much noise and need constant attention to run marginally..... There prototipical... 😂😂😂... Still I love the PA locomotives.
I got 2 vintage N-scale Con-Cor in PRR. Still run great after 40yrs. Buy em when you can.
Outstanding video. Very enjoyable. Thanks for sharing. Dave
Very good info. Thanks! Cool layout BTW, I work in a model RR shop in New England.
I remember, as a kid, seeing the shell of the Alco PA that eventually was restored to the NKP 190 sitting in the Union Pacific railyard in Albany, Oregon. It was there for a few years as I recall. If I was on the driver's side of the car, I could look down off the overpass and see this rusted, stripped hulk of a locomotive that I knew nothing about. Years later, I saw it, nearly fully operational, at the Oregon Rail Haritage Center a couple of times. Never saw it running, but I did get to look into the engine room and see the massive prime mover. Not sure if its the Alco prime mover, or and EMD one.
Superb video, thanks for sharing, from Germany
Emd f series are the most beautiful locos ever built
Enjoy your engine documentaries a lot. My favorite diesel is the GM F3. My Aunt knew I was crazy about trains. She'd take me down to the New Orleans train terminal as a kid and I'd watch them come and go for hours. Do you have any, or can you do a doc on the GM F3? Many thanks, Joe
I bet it was Torsional Resonance too! That can break any crankshaft in any engine!!
Too bad you didn't get information on the other Demonstrator units, orange PA/PB, and the Canadian National-painted PA/PA sold to the MKT.
I went to work for the GN RR in 1968. SP&S had theses locomotives. I worked on them. you need to dig deeper with your research.
@03:28 you forgot to add bunker oil as a fuel also, it wasn't just coal & water at the time. @14:00 you fail to mention the HP of the S-series of loco's. I won't admit that the PA's were the most beautiful diesel loco's built, but they do have a very beautiful distinctive look. As far as paint schemes go, I think the D & H had the best, followed by the NYC, the RG and then the SF. The worst paint schemes I would vote the NH. I have always loved the design of the Alco 6 axle truck design and that is another distinguishing feature of them. @43:40 I never knew Alco never called them PA-1's or 2"s until after production had ceased....so what did they call them before that time? Great video though.
Actually that 1,000 HP was the output of most of the 539 propelled S-series switchers as noted at 14:00. the only exception was with the S-1 and S-3 which made 660hp, as they were not turbo charged.
As for the retro active designation of the PA's, they were rushed into production so fast that no one thought about designations. This was fine, until the PA-2 came out with its 244C prime movers. In addition to the parts for the prime mover were not compatible, there were electrical differences as well. And so to help avoid confusion with parts for these loco's, came the PA-1 and PA-2 designations.
I definitely agree that these locomotives looked best in D&H paint. Its this paint scheme that got me into ALCO PA's!
Thanks for watching!
Very informative video. Are the engine models you show in HO scale? If so, who is the manufacturer and who sells them?
Thankyou for a great informational video
Thank you for watching!
@@alcobufff It was a pleasure
My Life-Like N scale and HO scale Alco PA locomotives run great as well as look good.
Alco PAs lasted 20 years normal lifespan of any Diesel, stop hating on Alco.
Over in Australia they had no 539's and only a few 244 engined Alco's.
The 251 was more than equal to the EMD 567.
Even today a few Alco's are still running.
Great video, but interrupted by too many ads.🤑
Love my o gauge gold sf pa in chrome nothing like 244 prime mover sounds chugging around layout with smoke on Max
30:48 I would say that the crankshaft is more like the pelvis of an engine. The oil pump is the heart
Awesome Locomotive 😁🚂
la 17 y 19 aun estan en museo de Puebla en Mexico
In your archival search for RSC2 pics, did you consider Soo Line and MILW, who rostered those in significant numbers?
I had tried all manner of searches but could not find one that i could use. Please note, that just becase the pic in question has been posted, dose not mean it can be utilized due to restrictions of use.
Thanks for watching!
This locomotive is wondefull ❤❤❤
You got a new sub
I wonder how the I8T 539 would have done in railroad service. It made 1300hp
I'm pretty sure the Montrealer had negligible impact on tourism in New York State. The Adirondack had not only tourism impact on New York, it had impact on Vermont because of it's summertime stops at Port Kent, NY connecting with the Lake Champlain Transportation Company's scenic Ferries to Burlington (which, alas, are no longer operating) 🥲
The Napa Valley Wine Train in California was running a PA....
Actually, that was an FPA-4 ua-cam.com/video/vydDnOUZSdM/v-deo.html
Thanks for watching!
CORRECTION: World War 2 began in 1939 NOT 1941!!!
My apology's! I meant when the United States entered WWII which was 1941, which is when the war production board took control of US production 10:59.
Thanks for watching!
was the 251 c ever used in trains. i was in the navy was on lst 1191 with 6, 251 c for main propulsion good engines
It was, although by alcos partner MLW in switcher units like the MLW S-13 the MLW RS 23.
Thanks for watching and your service!
please do something about the FPA-2 that B&O bought
Try a British English Electric Deltic for “best looking”.
These Engines are Very Reliable
1:20 Ing ger sol Rand not In Sol Rand.
Thanks for saving me the effort! Like you, I am VERY aware of correct pronunciation or lack thereof.
It is a trait that cuts both ways: accuracy is critical and expected, but for me, it detracts from my ability to enjoy the post!
Ingersoll Rand was one of the most respected suppliers of industrial equipment back in the day.
I don't even know if the once proud company exists today. If it does, it has surely been gobbled up by many mergers and acquisitions, diluting the once proud behemoth.
Just the random thoughts of s 69yr old who once worked at an Idaho based company
(Morrison-Knudsen) in the early 70s!
And we had two D&H PAs that were being remanufactured at our shop in Boise.
Acquiring the very specialized electrical switchgear was nearly impossible.
But, as a kid of 19 yrs, I learned a great deal! Mostly about how dealing with East coast OEMs was a 'get in line and wait for months if not years to obtain the very many parts a given loco requires.
I still look back fondly on my time there!
@@roberthevern6169Instead of being gobbled up, it is the one doing the gobbling. They took over Gardner-Denver as an example. And we both are the same age.
DL 244 powered Alco RS3s are STILL in everyday revenue service , 70 years old still making money for the railroad.
Again, please at least watch my video then make comments. If you had you would have known that I never mention the alco rs-3 in this video at all! As per the title, this video is about the alco PA NOT the alco RS-3. As for the 244, the prime mover became much better after alco finally tore it down and fixed its issues, I did talk about this, in this video, at time code 39:23.
Your understanding of the "FCP" in Mexico is terrible. the "FCP" took very good care of these units. Derailments happen in railroading as I saw firsthand in San Bernardino's ATSF shops some very bad wrecked PA's back in the 60"s. The "FCP" did the best they could with these PA's and were proud of them!!!
Your correct that FCP took good care of their Alcos. However, the same could not be said about the track conditions. My point was to the safety of the railroad. Due to issues with funding, the tracks suffered. This did improve with time, especially after the Mexican government took them over and made them part of the M de M. However, this came too late to save the PA's from being wrecked or distorted by fire, which was the case for D&H 17 I believe. As mentioned here, the company restored 2 of them using parts from the other 2, a major achievement and props to FCP for pulling it off!
Thanks for watching!
A lot of information covered here but a shame there was more diesel, ALCo and later history than PA history. It took 32 minute out of 59 before you got to the PA. Quite a disappointing video based on that. The AT&SF/ D&H paint scheme was called Warbonnet and not lightning bolt. Just another point that's wrong.
Actually I consider the GM F-3 or E-7 the best looking diesel locomotives.
Which of these models is the Napa valley train in California ?
The napa valley currently, but not for much longer, run MLW FPA-4's, not featured in this video. theses will, sadly, soon be retired.
Thanks for watching!
292 Nice Machine
Mean this as a compliment. You sound a little like Joe Rogan 😂😂
Just poor QC has gotten them into this mess. Just a damn shame that they asked for more money from NASA and failed to deliver.
Alco simply didn't have the money or the talent to take on GM. GE surely didn't help them with some of their boneheaded engineering, like the use of aircraft turbochargers with NO aftercooling. Al Sloan simply bought EMC, added GM manufacturing and engineering principles, deep pocket funding, and waited for Alco to fail with its poorly designed 241-243-244 engines. By the time Richard Vaughn finally came up with the 251 (which had problems of its own) for release in '55, EMD already had 17 years experience with the 567. Game over.
This what happens when operating and sales executes make decisions and tell engineering to just shut up and hurry up!! Sad
What an uninformed, biased report this is! You obviously have no idea how hard those DL-109s worked and how many miles they had on them when retired. They were anything but a failure. And, how little trouble the New Haven really had with them.
Looking at your reply to devonbranstetter9261 below, I can only say having a model of a locomotive certainly does not make you an expert on the real one. Your research on the subject seems to be tainted by citing statistics written by people who had an agenda to discredit Alco. I have actually run DL109s. I know first hand what they were capable of doing.
It's too bad that we no longer have access to the people who knew them first hand and could give you the real story. But then...
It's a real shame that you do a video on locomotives that a lot of people really like, only to constantly state questionable so called facts about them.
But then, carry on, I will just pass on watching anything more you create.
I would like to know how you consider my work uninformed and biased?
It is well known that the 244 had problems as backed up by former alco sales people as well as crew that use to work with the alco 244's I have spoken with or corresponded with, as well as several videos on the subject ,such as DIESEL POWER ON THE SOUTHERN PACIFIC by Charles smiley presents. As for being biased, I went over the positives of the Alco PA's such as their performance at high altitudes fuel efficiency and smooth ride, not to mention their good looks. I then covered the mechanical problems they encountered in detail. If I were biased I would have said that they were perfect in everyway or they were the worst locomotives ever built in every way which i did not. While I was harsh on alco, it was for good a reason, as rail historians like Jim Boyd and former Alco Service engineers, such as the late GW Hockaday, all have stated that the beautiful and advanced PA's and their 244s were trouble makers. This was mainly due to the prime mover being pushed out long before it was ready and not being properly tested.
As for my comments about my model, I never said that having that model made me an expert but rather inspired me to learn as much as I could about this beautiful and rare locomotive, 30+ years worth. I have read many books on the PA and alcos alike since I was young and spoken to many that were involved with the PA and alco as well, as I have loved alcos since that time.
Alco Diesel Giy, ket your facts straight do your research before you put a video out,
I don't appreciate the nasty and frankly un called for comments! For your information, this video is a combination of research I have done since I was a kid playing with an HO model of one of these beauty's. This is a labor of love I put my hart, sole and 30+ years into. All of that said, It took me months of hard work to edit and verify all of the information I put into it to it to the best of my ability's. It may not be prefect but it was NOT thrown together at the last minute as you have implied. Its unfortunate that you found it necessary to make comments before you even watched my video.
You forgot the Erie Lackawanna and D&H with both PA 1 and PA 2
It was the Erie that bought the PA-1 and PB-1 engines before the merger with the Lackawanna. The Lackawanna bought Alco road switchers, but not cab units.
Lehigh Valley used PAs on the Black Diamond route. 😢
I've said it before and I'll say it again....what the (insert your choice of sentence enhancer here) happened to locomotive design? 🥹😥