The locomotives of Fairbanks Morse
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2022
- You Tube links:
TVA Fairbanks-Morse H-16-66 "Baby" Train Master Volume 1 of 5 Jay Winn
• TVA Fairbanks-Morse H-...
Ex-US Army Locomotive #1857 Fairbanks Morse FM H12-44 - Cold Start up.
• Ex-US Army Locomotive ...
Thanks for this video! This was new to me. The FM diesels had most popular in Soviet Russia. It was Reverse engineering, 38D8 1/8 received under the WWII Lend Lease Navy program. After the war two since the 50s options was use on locomotives: the 10 cylinder by 2000 HP (almost 8000 TE3 and TE7 A+A two-unit set) and the 10 cylinder by 3000 HP by turbocharger (TE10 AA and ABA units). In 80s and 90s this locomotives has also continued in production because there has been no reliable replacement. You can still see a few 3000 HP old locomotives in the 21st century. Now they was supplanted by V12 four-stroke engine. Russian railfans absolutely love it for the beautiful low-frequency sound. This low sound is unmistakable, you can be heard 10 miles away on a quiet night. But crew that worked on and operated it They cursed it for it shortcomings - Oil leaks, black smoke, difficulties due to the upper crank, turbocharger, uneconomical, technical obsolescence. (sorry for my bad English).
I remember when the SP had Trainmasters running the San Jose to San Francisco commuter trains. There were alot of stations close together and the Trainmaster accelerated noticeably faster than the EMD locomotives SP also used. You wanted to be sitting down when the engineer hit the throttle, it took off! The Trainmaster had a very distinctive sound, very different from anything else.
Did these have smoke?
Tug Boats YTB's yes sir. We had to start them in the dark so the townies would not see the smoke. Love the beast .
My father in law was a SP hog head. When the Trainmasters were working the Bay Area commuter jobs on weekends they get assigned road jobs. He took a triple header to San Luis Obispo with a 89 carload train. He told me they were the strongest pulling loco's he ever operated on.
Very cool! My grandfather worked at Fairbanks Morris in Beloit Wisconsin. He told me he would paint the locomotives for the different roads that would purchase them before they were delivered.
A woman who was a family friend of my grandparents owned a Fairbanks-Morse television. This would have been in the 1960s in Canada.
It was really something, how many different things they produced at one time. The rewind starters on the early Lawn-Boy mowers from the 50s and early 60s had the FM logo cast in the upper case section.
Did it smoke? 😅
Top Hat Mercenary Confederation when looking at the Diesel Locomotives of EMD, GE, ALCO, Fairbanks Morse, Baldwin, and Lima:
*”I’LL TAKE YOUR ENTIRE STOCK!”*
Retired US Navy Engineman here. Worked on and operated many Fairbanks Morse Diesel Engines. Mostly the 1300 KW gensets in LSD 41 class ships.
Fairbanks Morse: "hey guys check out my new diesel"
American railroads: "ew no thanks, EMD has us covered"
Canada: "it's okay they didn't give ALCO a chance either, say you wanna try selling some of those to our railways?"
FM: "sure, thanks Canada"
20 years later:
Southern Pacific: "hey whatever happened to the guys who made those trainmasters?"
B&O: "idk I think they went out of business or something"
Canadian Pacific: *_"These are the best fucking locomotives I've ever owned"_*
CP - "I mean, when they were running". lol
Big Trainmaster fan here...thanks for the great video!
Most of the FM locomotives used Cutler Hammer switch gear if not all of them, that part of the locomotives was pretty much bulletproof of we have one at the Golden gate railroad Museum an H-12-44
the FM opposed piston engine is one of the most efficient, space conservative power plant ever conceived. That very power plant that you so heavily criticize was the main stay of the US Navy FM series submarine fleet, and amongst submariners, on of the favorite subs in history. While FM power plants may not have been well utilized in rail applications, the general consensus of opinion among engineers, power plant operators, and a whole host of other folks is that the FM products were good, reliable, effecient and sturdy power plants.
Not to mention the tillings Stevens 3 cylinder ,six piston TS3 engine . Quite small but very powerful . And never forget the Napier Deltic .
@@Mercmad the Napier Deltic being the best example of a compact very high output 2 cycle diesel. An epic power plant. Love hearing those Deltic locomotives under full power. A VERY impressive sound. Also, the bigger EMD 2 cycles are magnificent too like the SD 45 V 20 645
Fascinating history-Thanks for all your research & putting together the presentation.
Thanks! Please feel free to sub!
The Tennessee' Valley Railroad Museum has one. There was a (baby?) Trainmaster on the Southern tip of Virginia's Eastern Shore, used by the Eastern Shore Railroad. I don't think that it was operational when the Bay Shore Railroad took over.
Not sure of what happened to it.
The 12 cylinder, 24 piston Train Masters were among the most beautiful sounding machines ever to roam the rails. Quiet at idle, booming like a tympani roll at acceleration. There are some high quality recordings out there, some on youtube. A lot of old films have dubbed fake sound for Fairbanks-Morse diesels so you can't rely on that. The best recordings were made of the San Francisco commute fleet in the 1970s. Wonderful sound.
I know two different Milwaukee Road retirees who worked on the small FM switchers. One of which was the exact one at Illinois Railroad Museum (which was FMs literal first locomotive).
I have heard multiple times those little FN switchers could load up faster out-pull everything else in the yard in Milwaukee. I've heard phases from old MILW guys like "Those thing could pull the yard office out by the roots".
One Trainmaster survives: CPR 8905, preserved at Exporail, QC. It's not an F-M product, rather a CLC-made unit, but since you're using a pic of CPR 8909 in your video, I think it's worth an update. BTW, Exporail is a crazy fantastic place.
As a small kid I grew up in an agricultural town served by branches of the Union Pacific and the Great Northern. The GN's head end power at the time on our stub-ended branch south of Spokane was mostly provided by Alco RS-3s and rare appearances of FAs. The UP however treated this young railfan to a kaleidoscope of Alco RS-3s, and several FM road switcher types depicted in your video. I wish now that I had been able to capture those locos on film. They were a colorful smoky lot!
In the CPR shop in Calgary, the job of working on the lower cylinders of C-Liners, H-Liners, and Trainmasters always seemed to fall to the first-year apprentice diesel mechanics. Funny how that works. Since fluids flow downhill the bottom cylinders were always covered in 'stuff' making them unpleasant to work on.
While in navy I attended two factory schools in Beloit WI at the Fairbanks plant as where I was stationed used the 38D8 1/8 in their YTB tugboats.
Very interesting engine design.
I was on a DE with 4 10 cyl. FMs, built in 42 or 43. Kept this old Engineman busy!
FM # 1847 x US Army 1953 now runs at the Golden gate railroad museum, we made a SP clone out of it renumbered 1487 H-22-44 these were the most popular of all the FM locomotives the US army alone bought hundreds of them
The Fairbanks Morse H24-66, trainmaster is one of my favorites. Loved the sound of them .Back in the early 1960s I saw one of these locomotives on the Jersey Central Lines in Wilkes Barre ,PA.
Some people are crying about your video. I think you did a good job and went through a ton of info very quickly. I can't attest to accuracy but sounds like you got it down. Good job
In 1978 we rode around a bit in a FM H 10 44 in Green Bay , Wi. (Milwaukee Road)
In 1979 we were ar Roanoke. there were 2 TMs there. One was in Wabash blue and up to it's axles in mud. It was also an ALCO re-powered loco.
The other was 173,,the last operating TM in the USA. Talking to a local, the guy said that NW had "promised" 173 to the Roanoke museum.
Well, we know how that worked out for 173.
If I remember correctly the Galveston Rail museum has an ex UP FM locomotive on site in static display. It was in pretty shabby shape when I looked at it last year. It's very cool that Tennessee Valley was able to get their hands on one still in mostly working condition. I'd love to go see that along with their ex CSX MOW U23b.
Several old FM locos near the Beloit Wi area. One at Illinois Railroad Museum (still running) and one in Brodhead Wi (static display)
At time 11:47, did you see the smashed short hood? Wonder what happened.
One car. one half. Smash. You're good. Stretch it.
Yeah, noticed that. At first I thought it was shadow(s).
In the 1960's I worked in the shops for Canadian National and Fairbanks Morse Engines were going to the reclamation (read scrap) yard rather than being overhauled. the main reasons were:
1) While a Marine engine has an almost unlimited ammount of seawater for cooling. locomotives depend on radiators for cooling. It was usually the lower pistons that burned their crowns for lack of coolng,
2) While a piston or cylinder liner on an ALCO or GMD could be replaced by removing a single cylinder head, on an opposed piston engine the whole upper crank had to be removed,
3) it was felt that the locomotive frame was too flexible, causing the engine block to flex increasing failure.
Ironicly the ALCO 251 serries engine used by Alco until it left the locomotive market is now being manufactured by Fairbanks-Morse.
It makes sense for a failing locomotive maker to contract and continue as a parts maker rather than go bankrupt, except that they can't forgive debt like a bankruptcy can, so they must do so in time, before debt becomes unpayable.
I don't see why power would be important in a world where you can just stack up as many units as you want to get all the power and tractive effort you want, leaving efficiency and reliability as the only factors.
But the other thing here is that all these problems seem fixable with bigger radiators, even coolant additives, and added plates to reinforce either the frame section or the block, or rubberized mounts to keep the block from twisting with the frame.
Wouldn't cooling problems only occur at full throttle, enabling them to be prevented with a simple throttle stop? and again, whenever power is needed, or tractive effort, just add another unit.
I have always like the idea of using the block as a frame section as do many tractors, which isn't a problem unless it is, in which case you just reinforce it by attaching plates.
Ironically locomotives using Fairbanks Morse diesel engines were much more successful in the USSR and China! USSR built its workhorse TE3 locomotive by copying the Fairbanks Morse diesel engine from a submarine that it got from the US during WW2. It seems, later on, the same locomotive was extensively manufactured in China as well.
Great video, thanks for presentation, from Germany
I finally got a couple of Fairbanks-Morse HO scale models. One is a brass Hallmark H12-44 and the other is an Atlas H15-44 both in the Central of Georgia livery. I really like the looks of Fairbanks-Morse engines. Wow, you've shown a photo of my F-M #101 H15-44 Central of Georgia engine. I cannot wait to get back to the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum to see & maybe ride on that F-M unit. They also have the last of the MS class Mikado's, the famous #4501, and I can't wait to ride it. Cheers from eastern TN
Nice job! Thanks for the presentation.
Thanks!
I came here to mention that FM sells ALCo prime movers...But you beat me to it at the very end there. I found this out by chance at one point while checking out the website one day and was super surprised (but rather happy and equally intrigued) to see it.
Modern EMDs are also two stroke diesels and they are amazing.
My understanding was problem wasnt oppossed piston engine but lack of training of repair techs compared to training of submarime and nany tech by military on the oppossed engine
That’s what I had heard. Also, lubricant to the upper conrods, bearings, etc. There was a specific start up sequence that wasn’t always followed. So, to blame FM can be a little misleading. Documented procedures weren’t always followed.
I am toolroom machines of 20 yes I work with Bridgeport vertical milling machines engine lathes grinders etc etc making all kinds and types of small to medium size precision parts & components , out of different metel materials, any way some of the machine tools/ EQIP WERE POWERIZED BY FAIRBANKS- MORSE ELECTRIC AC MOTORS SIMPLE RELIABLE QUIET EASY TO MAINTAIN ,CANT MISS THE TAG ON THE MOTOR.....
Great video and great information.
The Op being a two stroke diesel is not supercharged, but uses a scavenging blower to push the exhaust out and recharge air. Two stroke diesels will not run with no blower. The exception is older two stoke diesels which suck the air into the crank case through valves by the crank case. Detroit Diesels like the 53,71 & 92 have roots type blowers. The most boost you might get is maybe 5psi
Thank you. In my mind I felt that op engine must be two stroke as it must need ports instead of valves.
Did those old Detroit engines have just intake valves? Must be with exhaust ports.or is my thinking off?
@@ericjohnson3746 Just like EMD, Detroit Diesels' have two exhaust valves. The intake is through scavenging ports via a roots type scavenging blower.
Thanks, cool series of vids you have produced!
11:35 It looks like something decided to challenge this locomotive to a game of chicken and lost.
19:51 Good Lord, now there is some cranking amps!!!!
Fairbanks Morse is still around but they are known as Fairbanks Morse Defense FMD
I think the Jumo engines were used on Zeppelins to. I like the distinctive sound. The English removed opposed diesel engines from German submarines after WWI and used them very efficiently as power station generators.
I believe that is right. I know that Jumo engines were also used on airplanes, especially bombers.
The 38D can be found on the Los Angelas class of submarines
They are also the emergency diesel generators on the new Ford class carriers. As a former EMD employee, we found that the Navy could be a major nusence about the design of high shock diesels.These engines were a very expensive to build for such a tiny market. As far as FM is concerned the Navy is almost their only customer for marine diesels.
I was 100 thumbs up! Great video!
I love your vids. Greetings from Tunisia. We use only American locos hers.
Maybe its a common design, but the fishing boat shown at 01:59 looks a lot like the fishing boat that plays such a big role at the outset of the Gregory Peck movie Guns of Navaronne.
Che bellissimo video! Molto interessante ! Very interesting !!!
Great video! The Trainmaster and the Erie Built are such good looking locomotives. 15:51 Also, its Cal-Train. CalTrans is Californias DOT, they maintain the roads.
It’s a bit confusing, not just because of the difference, but early on it was Caltrans that provided the funding for the F40PH locomotives for what is now CalTrain.
I’m only seeing this because I saw a listing on eBay for a on30 caboose “Fairbanks Morse” only reason why. I’m from south shore and Michigan southern region.
It still surprises me that the opposed piston did so well in marine applications but failed as a locomotive prime mover. I understand the comments made by the author but I would have thought FM would have addressed these issues.
Quite interesting. Great video
Thanks!
One F-M Trainmaster has survived intact.
CN & CP had quite a few of them
Most of them lasted with Canadian Pacific
Great video
Thanks! Please feel free to sub!
Nice work Thank you
I enjoyed this.
Thanks!
You left out one particular design....the P-12-42,akà the"Speed Merchant". Four were built,two each for the Boston and Maine and New Haven railroads for their ACF Improved Talgo Trains.The New Haven variant also having third rail propulsion capacity,and HEP for the New Talgo trains.
Cool video
Excellent video Alco approved 👍
Thanks!
Milkwaukee and UP loved them
Nice work, but did I miss the part about the H-12-44?
With both tanks of Pistons one on top of the other it made the engine shorter but it also made it taller and in tunnels that were made for smaller locomotives and rolling stock they would suck in burning hot air from the engine in front of them and they would overheat and shut down. This was especially prevalent on the Southern railroad which had a lot of tunnels on the network that they called the rathole the tunnels have been delighted because of the increasing size of rolling stock. Without a huge amount of cooling water like you would have on an ocean-going motor in a submarine the service of a railroad prove to be too severe. Many railroads financial that were in financial distress would continue to run switching locomotives powered by fairbanks-morse into the 1980s
delighted = daylighted
@@kiwitrainguy spelling error ok?
Must have been autocorrected (to the wrong thing). Happens to me all the time.@@frankmarkovcijr5459
Remember old Alcos were called Cabbage Choppers.
Great video mate any news on the bachmann videos?
There are numerous mistakes and omissions in this video. The H-10-44 was powered by the 6 cylinder engine not the 8 cylinder. The H10-44 and H15-44 were not failures, they were simply replaced in the catalog by the H12-44, and H16-44 , neither of which are mentioned and were much better sellers. The H-16-66 sold 58 not 59. The H-24-66 sold more than the 29 stated. It sold 105 in the states and 22 in Canada. Not all were scrapped as 1 is in a museum in Canada. It must be noted that on railroads that had shops trained to handle the F.M.'s, They performed well. The part about the O.P. not being able to handle changes in RPM's is wrong as that is the primary thing the switch engines did and most switchers had long lives. Also F.M. and Westinghouse were not partners. Westinghouse was just a electrical supplier for F.M. Westinghouse was partnered with Baldwin. When Westinghouse stopped producing the Electrical Equipment, F.M. turned to G.E. in later years.
I'm surprised he got continued financial backing for diesel rail locomotive projects that included the opposed piston prime mover given the plethera of failings in performance, reliability which was reflected in the sales.
Thanks. I've been curious about opposed piston engines for a long time.
I didn't know about any production examples.
Since this is the 21st century, maybe we could adjust to or include more modern terminology: Diesel (or any ICE) engine driving a generator is routinely called a Diesel/electric hybrid, or a gasoline/electric hybrid, since the propulsion forces come from the electric motors receiving electric energy from generators powered by various ICE engines.
Az oroszok használják a T64 tankban. 5TDU, 6 TDU. Motorokat, 5 illetve 6 hengeres hajtóművek.
If you want to learn about opposed piston engines search out: Napier Deltic.
Their railroad engines were a nightmare to repair. It was their downfall.
Junkers was actually dutch and not german. But was forced to work for the germans during WW2.
TOP 👍🏽😜👍🏽
Thanks!
If anyone here plays dovetail train sim a developer by the name of diesel works is release a c424 soon.
Why are you showing pictures of Alco & EMD prime movers when this is about FM?
To compare and contrast them and for backround.
He'll Yeah
My phone saw something I looked at and made me look at this. I could care less. This is barely a snippet of the actual information I keep in myself through experience. I’m mad that my phone listens to my actions. Any of them.
I noticed the Mexican Railroad was not mentioned, there were several H24-66 & various other F/M's on their lines.Also,anyone who states the O.P. was a failure or hard to maintain has never worked on one or is just plain STUPID ! I spent 43 years with F/M , 42 in Field Service & the O.P. is the best engine you can have in any application! As one old engineer at Savanna,Ill. told me several years ago(YOU HAD TO FEATHER THE THROTTLE ON THE F/M's or YOU COULD SPIT TRACK !) And I am a strong believer !
You do good work, but give yourself more credit 🙂 Your research and scripting are very good but I can tell how nervous you are when recording the voiceover, making it seem rushed and clippy. Respect yourself: slow down a little; enjoy and speak to the mic as you would to a fellow railfan on their own, not a whole audience. Let the script speak for itself. You can always chop and change during editing but the whole point is to enjoy what you do, and then share your final product with your audience. Chill, dude, we like your stuff 🤟🏼😎
Lmao isn't there still at least one trainmaster around?
Saw a video on it being moved around on UA-cam just earlier xd
Actually that unit is a Baby train master, I assume you are referring to the one that got pulled from TVA. One could call it the lower end option as it has half the cylinders of the trainmaster, but shares the same body and almost everything els
@@alcobufff oh cool
My mistake then :)
The opposed piston engine would not have less moving parts it would have more moving parts, 2 crankshafts, and if the two crankshaft from each opposed piston assembly converge into one that means it would probably be three crankshafts with two going into one, that means more moving parts, not to mention if the oil is actually being spread out unused efficiently for the upper portion of this engine, it's not hard to see why this engine is not real popular or efficient..... 😏
Now if only the engine was a boxer type?
Opposed piston boxer? That would be a wide engine.
Great information but the narration is very uncomfortable to listen to.
moral of the story: FBM locomotive works died because they were too stupid and stubborn sticking with an engine MANY RAILROADS said they hated, and yet they continue using it.
Why are you including pictures that are not relevant
Who is slamming all the doors? Get a studio, man!
What doors? Are you certain you're not hallucinating at your dentist's office?
pre-read and rehearse your script before recording. knock it off with the "and/or" all the time. all FM opposed piston prime lovers use(d) Roots blowers, not superchargers. current versions of the 38D 8 1/8 in service have turbochargers for supplying combustion air.
Agree, he is a very terrible speaker and makes the video annoying to watch
A lot of channels have this problem. People need to slow down, practice speaking clearly, and do multiple takes. Few people can read off 2,000+ words flawlessly in one take.
Using spell check when doing a hard critique is a good idea 💡
Fuk have a cry ya fucking flog I bet ya perfect
The amateurish script writing and narration made me turn it off.