M50 TURBO VS S54 - BMW E36
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- Опубліковано 11 тра 2022
- - In this video we discuss the M50 Turbo vs S54 Engine, in specific the cost, reliability, performance and ease of build/swap.
- Links to other video's:
UK's Cheapest E46 M3
- • BUYING UK'S CHEAPEST B...
S54 E36 M3 Build in 10 minutes:
- • BMW E36 M3 S54 SWAP IN...
M50 Turbo E36
- • OUR BMW E36 M50B28 TUR...
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Just catching up with the content mate. This video has done well for you. Congratulations on the 1k subs also..
Thanks my man appreciate it massively 💪
super cool seeing that you've owned both versions
Thank you buddy 👍
Great video Jason!
Thanks mate appreciate it 👌
Wicked video mate! Very informative 👍
Thanks mate 👍
Really interesting video and super informative!
Glad you enjoyed it my friend 💪
Awesome vid though. very informative and a good breakdown at a high level. I would have loved to hear how they drove one vs the other as you didnt go through that in detail.
Another video could certainly be done if there’s enough questions in the comments about it all 👍
very good vid G, keep it up
Thank you buddy! 👍
Mate I have 2 M50s and an S54 sitting at the shop... im just gonna have to follow your steps and do both 😂 great video! STX
Go for it my man 🤙 thank you for kind words
Great video. I would almost suggest to guys wanting boost to go the n54 route. They can be had plenty cheap here in the USA.
N54 swaps are getting more and more popular and it would be wise to buy up N54 engines asap.
we are getting to a point where the average N54 car is nearing 200-300k range and people are going to start needing engines more and more so the price point is going to rise.
also its a really good technical update to swap N54+6 speed and electronics into an E36.
@@dannyipwn1203 Well said!
N55 seems like a better option, just a little more money
@@alextasarov1341 Less power, less forged internals. Many would disagree.
smashing it big boiii
Thanks mateyyy 💪
E36 328i here in the US (cheap and readily available) with the stock M52...simple head gasket/spacer + ARP head studs with a decent turbo kit and you make 500whp+ all day long on 93 octane which destroys any NA S54 swapped E36. There's a ton of variables so this comparison is anything but apples to apples.
beat me to it. and i couldnt agree more.
M52B28 engines are cheap, 328i are also cheap, and a simple turbo kit bolt on setup can EASILY make 500whp if you do your planning and spend smart, which the S54 cant do NA.
@@dannyipwn1203 the s54 is an incredible motor and def king when it comes to na powa but turboing a m52 stroked to a 3.0 with m54b30 bits 500 hp is very easy and reliable to get to. plus the cars are everywhere in junkyards haha
e46 m3 for 6750 in todays market was a rare find. nice to know bargains still out there!
Sure was, but if you search hard and long enough the bargains do still exist 🤙
@@wds_originals how do you find them
@@aqib2000 as In sourcing the donor cars? Or how do each drive?
I’ve got a 330 powered E36 if you want put it up against the s54, for some comparisons and content?
For sure, could well be something of interest in the future 👍 drop me an email if you wish to work something out for one day in the future 🤙
When it comes to prices I think that's a bit unfair tho.
Nowadays people sell M3's for 20K (and I know they're still cheaper in the Uk, they always have been but not that cheap anymore, even over there.), also I don't know if that's a UK thing but you'd never be able to sell that car as a shell here, it'd sit for sale for so long. So your only real option is buying the engine itself and like you said, over 5K for a bare S54, often missing accessories.
I think the turbo pricing was also quite unfair, most people won't need 1200 pounds of machining, not only even for the given work it's expensive, but that's also unnecessary work, you do not need balancing, and most people considering the option either already have an M50 or just turbo the ally block, because honestly it does it fine.
Even doing the exact same hybrid engine as you did could be much cheaper, no need for ARP mains, therefore no need for line boring, no need for any balancing if you're not going for 8k+ rpm (and even there I don't think it is needed, on bimmerforum someguy is doing 8800+rpm without rebalancing his crank), really online machine work needed would be surfacing the head, and boring the cylinders since you chose a b20 block. Also buying gaskets from BMW when Elring or Reinz is perfectly fine and 50% cheaper is obviously severely impacting the budget.
Apart from that the price for the actual turbo bits, mapping and exhaust is fair (although obviously there's always those guys saying they made the same for cheaper, but you know how that goes), I'd say then a normal total for the turbo build would be like 5000-5500.
The s54 would be like 6000 bare ass minimum. Which still isn't a bad deal.
That being said reliability and confidence wise the S54 is definitely the better choice, it's a mostly stock engine, doing exactly what it's been made to do, while the M50 turbo is a modified engine and you're pushing it beyong the engineered limits, although it's known to handle it, it hasn't been made for it.
Honestly I still don't know which way to go towards in the future for my 325i. I don't think an S54 or S50 swap is quite realistic given the prices (and the direction they're going in, I like upgrading in steps so swap is not for right now, they'll probably be even more expensive by then), plus rules for swapping here at very very strict, so either I stay NA and do an M50b30 with cams, basically a US M3 replica, maybe a little more spicy, or I go bottom mount turbo on the existing b25, hard to say but I got time to think. Thing is, I do like my NA intake noise, but I also love turbo noises.
Interested in doing the m50b28 turbo as I’m based, I have a 328i already would I only need an m50 block, and just swap the pistons, head etc over?
Joe, you could boost your existing m52 with head studs and a decent head gasket, or go down the route of m50 block, which is exactly as you said plus some additional bits, or if you want to build a monster then of course forge it and know that its safe for good amounts of boost!
I wanted to manual swap my e34 but was unsure which other transmissions can mount up to the m50 motor. can you help?
Getrag or ZF from m52 or m50 engines 👍 you’ll want front half of prop too!
@@wds_originals thank you for the quick reply n i also really liked this video
@@kennyberrios1603 appreciate the kind words 💪
Were did you get the intake from?
S54 is a carbon airbox bought it second hand so unsure on its originality, but the carbon box came on genuine e46 m3 CSL’s 👍
s54 in e30 would be insane too
From my understanding it’s a fair bit more work for the e30 as sump is front facing so subframe issues but I know there is aftermarket support to over come this and it’s become a fairly common swap 👍
But defo would be cool 100%
My buddy has an s54 e30. It's too much fun!
Can you please let me know why the gaskets cost 500 pounds? Were they different from the OEM?
Subbed.
may be using cut ring head gaskets that are spaced to reduce compression ratio.. this vid covers it at like 10:40 ua-cam.com/video/X4Fj5ENJs-g/v-deo.html
MKS head gasket
what head did you use ?, the M50B20 or the M52B28
it looks like the M52 head? but how do you work the vanos.
@@BarryGVD
It’s basically a full m52b28 inside an m50 block, m52b28 wiring harness etc, stand-alone ecu and that controls the vanos 👍
What happened to your m50? If you still have it I’ll buy from you 👍🏼 been up too yours before
Long gone I’m afraid buddy
Absolute banging video spot on. S54 swap is way quicker than a full m50b28 turbo build. Especially when doing a fully built one.
Yeh depends how it’s done, but I personally prefer the S54 👍
Turbo m50.... if you want high rpm. Solid lifters in said m5x . S54 is an expensive proposition. Parts are astronomical. M52 is the real answer.
I used 3days turn a z3 2.8 into s54. The s54 z3 flies!!!
@@drewdavis239 high rpm ? S54 revs to 8k
Is decent condition stock e36 worth spending 20k?
Not in my opinion no, maybe an m3, but not a stock 323i or something no, but neither of my swaps cost anywhere near that!
For everyone saying a turbo setup is better, how much weight does a turbo setup add? And wouldn’t the s54 be better for track days, autox, rally, etc? I could see why turbo would be better for drifting but what about a grip based car?
Drifting id choose turbo, but any other application I’d choose the s54 personally 👍
@@wds_originals exactly my thought! I’ve had a us spec m3 and as cool as turbos sound/look I’ve always seen myself running an na build. I’m moving to Japan where they have the eu s50/52 how did you like it compared to the s54 and how long did you wait to swap it? I’ve also seen your previous videos where you redid the fender lining, what was the reason behind that? Content is awesome! Keep up the work!
@@furinkazan9752 much prefer s54, turbo is good but not my cup of tea personally!
Rusty tubs was the reason for replacement!
Thank you for kind words! 🤙
Jesus! Idk how you did either of those builds so cheaply! As an m52 turbo owner, I can tell you I love my car but I also believe the best swap possible is s54 e36 but if you want power you need a turbo.
100% agree with you 👍
I have a 330ci turbo was gonna s54 swap it but kinda thinking of just getting a m50 e36 and boosting it. Idk I’m kinda stuck
@@Mena6e.c7 if it’s not your daily, go turbo. If you rely on the car the s54 swap acts like a normal car!
Good info... but its 2022 mate... get a wireless mic or lavalier mic
How did your car only make 315hp at 11psi
Mine made 330whp at 8psi.
Small turbo vs bigger turbo on yours most likely 👍
@@wds_originals I'd agree but I'm running a GT35
His turbo looks much larger minus the inlet on the turbo. Mine is 4 Inch. or 100mm if you're so inclined
420hp at 14psi on a m50b28 here. s54 is a hell of a motor though, perfect for a track car.
made about 375 to the wheels at 13psi
@@juliusohly8817 my turbo was a T04e which is smaller than a GT30 👍
Currently swapping an s54 into my e30 which has an s52 turbo. Mainly swapping to improve reliability. Not saying the s52 wasn’t reliable, it ran without any issues for 3 years, but I imagine the s54 will last much longer than that.
completely agree with that 💪
i don't see why the S54 swap stuff is getting as popular as it is.
Ive not once had issues with the Turbo setup.
Used s54 , or brand new built m50 ? similar price of admission. One is a used gamble. One is brand new.
Of course, but one is designed to be redlined for years other is an engine that may be new but wasn’t exactly designed for boost & is being forced to take it.
It’s all personal preference & application dependant I’m sure 👍
different powerbands, different tools for different jobs, I dont see how you compare the 2
This^.... after owning all the m5x variants... s52 turbo is my favorite. S54 has a lot of shit to go wrong. Ms45 is way more advanced. Parts are way way more expensive. It's a much more delicate motor. You have to adjust valves in the s54. The list is so long.... I feel like this video is misinformation, or lack of real world experience. When you put your money where your mouth is, turbo m50 cost less. The 2.5 isn't a great choice for boost when you can run a 2.8 or a 3.0 /3.2 for the same price. M52 turbo , s52 turbo. Or m54 rotating assembly out of a overheated m54, into a m50 iron block. The m54 frankin m50 turbo is the best bang for the buck. Don't get me wrong a s54 is an amazing motor. But its power limited in n.a. form. The m tax is very real.
could have spent more money buying a better turbo and passed on the engine build and you would be having a very different conversation. 450hp safe vs 331hp is one thing, its the torque that matters. That would be night and day......
For sure, however I plan to do a few track days etc with the e36, and a turbo setup vs N/A High rev’n engine with itb’s for my use the s54 is better suited. Not disagreeing with you at all, it all comes down to personal preference 👍
Right...450hp that would NEVER be converted to the pavement. Considering a stock 328 with 190hp will easily break the wheels free,450hp will just be a smoke fest,dangerous car to drive. It takes everything that makes these cars special and essentially makes it's only advantage being rear wheel drive. If the whole purpose is to make a drift missile then fine,but if the plans for the car involve ANYTHING besides a drift build 450+hp is just a waste of money in these cars
@@BMWiE-lz3nu not really, well setup rear end+good tires will make you put the 450hp to the ground with ease. I've been driving a ~350-400whp M52 turbo e36 an 255 wide FK510's for 3 years now without any major issues. thing is a weapon as a streetcar. only breaks the tires loose in the wet.
It's the comparison between a budget turbo and an S54 that kinda gets me. it's a good video, but throw something different at it (even a good refurbished holset would be better) and you would have a completely different comparison.
oh, and I love the S54! so i am not gonna hate on what he has done!
wtb s54 turbo
Here in the UK with no E85 it’s pointless as you can get same numbers from M50 turbo for a fraction of the price.
S54 all day
S54 turbo is best
I hate when the m50tu is used as a base for comparison. The M50nv is by far Superior.
only the rods I believe. vanos head will help turbo spool and is the way to go for a street car.
@@uscp2 Non Vanos head has stronger Valves, dual valve springs and higher lift cams than Vanos engines
But agreed the best is a NV engine converted to run Vanos, which is what i've done on my M50B28 Forged Stroker
@@AdilAaronAkhtar Cool! i didn't know that. is that dual valve springs from factory? I did know about the cams and that the intake cam is a good exhaust cam for the Vanos engines. I am looking to do that next on my M52B28 turbo.
M50B28 forged stroker is probably the best you can go for for a high power engine. nice!
@@uscp2 it is indeed dual valve spring from the factory with several people revving round to 8500rpm on a completely standard valve train
Yeh in my opinion M50B28 is a better option over an M50B30, due to the square stroke/bore, and also doesn't suffer with the known harmonics issues of the 3L engines
0:23 in Europe thats a M52 engine not a M50
If you continue to watch the video, it’s an M50 Block With 2.8 Head stroker etc! 👍
@@wds_originals ahh i see so its a combo ;)
m52*
M50 block can take abuse.
this is like comparing apple and terds.. One is for poor people the other is not.
This video is an absolute terrible example and comparison.
My Ebay Turbo CX Racing (everything) M52B28 (stock) made 450WHP @14psi, i tuned it back to 12PSI and made 430whp.
2.5" downpipe (alot of restriction) Link Ecu, I think the turbo kit alone is around 2000$, Link ecu was 1100$, came out to around 3200$ total.
S54 engines alone are near 5k-6k. and its wrong to say you paid sub 6k for a full complete M3 (never going to happen again, they seem to start around 15k)
Realistically youre going to spend 10k minimum to S54 an E36.
and you can squeeze in right around 3500$ to turbo an M52.
So Cost wise youre unbelievably exaggerated.
and also that Turbo isnt matched with the M52 engine very good at all.
GT3582 or GT3076 is the only way to go. and both easily make over 400whp which the NA S54 will NOT do.
You are in the states I’m guessing, where m52’s are iron blocks, her in the UK we have Ali block m52’s.
Prices of e46 m3’s are clearly different over the pond as I’ve bought two e46 m3’s recently both for sub £8k and after breaking them up after removing the engine both engines cost me less than £2k 👍
As mentioned in the video these are my figures and what it cost me, others may be different 👍
S54 suck !
All youtube is now is rich people spending all their money and showing how much better life is when u can just buy whatever u want whenever u want
Considering my channel has only just his 1k sub’s and isn’t monetised yet, and I built both these two cars with money from work not UA-cam I feel your comment is inaccurate. However if you feel that way, why don’t you jump on the band wagon too 👍 don’t hate em join em!
@@wds_originals I never said u are rich because of youtube. No...it's worse. Ur just a rich kid whose parents laid their path. I stand by my statement
@@BMWiE-lz3nu wow, I’m not going to bother justifying where money has come from as it’s clear that you are a jealous individual who can’t be arsed to achieve yourself and assume what you want to believe to make you feel better about your situation….. Now you’ve identified that UA-camrs earn good money, and if you want that life, get off your arse, start filming editing and putting in effort and you might find it takes off. Then you may become “rich” 👍 until you can be arsed / have a positive & supportive outlook please stay off my channel & keep yourself to yourself and don’t make judgements about people you don’t even know! 👍
@@wds_originals WHO'S ASKING YOU TO JUSTIFY ANYTHING?!? I stated a fact and u took issue with it. Quit getting all butthurt,trust me...ur rich it's gonna be OK. U got nothing to worry bout. Mommy and daddy go ya covered
@@BMWiE-lz3nu We’re done here! Move on pal 👍
You've ruined a perfectly good M3 just to get the S54 engine. It's not a nice way to go about it. Good for you, but not nice.
Wow s54 for only 2.5k😮 I can only dream about that 🥲