Is the 2024 Subaru BRZ tS a BETTER sports car than a Toyota Supra?
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- Опубліковано 1 бер 2024
- FIRST DRIVE: The BRZ is getting some upgrades that are tuned by STI from Subaru. On the outside you will notice gold Brembo calipers, Hitachi shocks, unique wheels and styling. On the inside you will be greeted by sport seats with blue trim, blue stitching throughout. Under the hood is a 2.4L flat-4 mated to a 6-speed manual gearbox. Is the 2024 Subaru BRZ tS a BETTER sports car than a Toyota Supra?
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videography: Steven Flood 🎥 - Авто та транспорт
Hey everyone! Thanks for taking some time to watch my review of the BRZ tS! FYI, the video has almost 10 mins of twisty but ON THROTTLE action! This allows me to show the capability of this sports car.
you're lucky no cyclists on filming day. on some days, you can barely enjoy that road cuz cyclists pop up every few turns.
Countdown to live Q and A Joe! And 3 days till the 2025 Dodge Charger reveal.
What kind of watch are you wearing?
Great video, bro! And what a backdrop! 😮
@@noob.168that would be really annoying. I guess going out on a Monday afternoon is key!
I’ve had a 2013 Scion FRS as my daily since I’ve been 19 years old. I’m 27 now and still smile everyday I see her. Never gets old. 😊
Wow! How many miles on her?
If your car survived a 19 year old and still going strong 10+ years later, that speaks volumes for its durability! Keep enjoying.
I’ve got a 2016 Scion frs for 3 years and I hate the car so much. It’s got 140k miles. Has been a pain in the ass with reliability and I can’t stand how slow these cars are even with FBO.
Only 90,000 miles, I swear. During Covid, I only drove it like 5k miles in 2020. lol @adambedski
@@Bupkus68 Purchased my 06 STi in 2008 as an 18 year old. Still going strong today. Still on the original clutch, even after learning on it myself and teaching 2 other people on it. 110K miles, now. Had 44K when I bought it, used.
Have a 23 GR86. Your reactions are exactly right. It is a car with a soul that fuses with your own soul, especially on the twisties. Love it. ❤
Joe I’ve seen quite a few of your videos and I don’t recall you ever laughing so much with joy on the test drive. I was planning on buying a 987 cayman or boxster in the next few months as an additional fun car, but the amount of fun you had in this video, I may have just changed my mind
It was really the stars aligning The car, manual gearbox and the road!
The stock exhausts for these new 2.4L boxer engines don't do them justice. Even just a simple axleback wakes them up and they sound PHENOMENAL!
I put a catback and cold air intake on and it sounds so good
HKS axleback ftw 🫡
Excellent review Joe and a nice coincidence, as I just picked mine up in the same color earlier today. It was handling very well on rainy roads. Let the BRZ STI build commence! I’m turning this gem into a baby Porsche.
Definitely doesn't need the extra power! Ever since i got mine, the only thing i wanted was just a tad more response, which a simple tune does the job while adding 10hp to the entirety of the power band. Such a fantastic car and I am so glad I got one!
What kind of tune did you get? Been thinking of getting one for mine but don’t know from where?
@@alexresendiz5139I was curious and went with the delicious tuning stage 1 package since they were one of the firsts to tune the car. Not a plug for them, but they were very helpful with the whole tuning and revisions process. The car itself isn't a different car, but the response and powerband difference are very noticeable. Power delivery is very smooth, throttle response is immediate, and there is no rev hang anymore. Not cheap, but i personally recommend it if you just wanna improve the driving feel of the car.
In Aus you can get a bolt on turbo kit for the 2.0L(states that its best for 2.0L), its under 5k US. HKS 11001-KT001 86/BRZ GTIII-RS TURBO PRO Kit, parts :
GTⅢ-RS Turbocharger Assy with an actuator.
Oil & Water Piping Parts
Air Cleaner, Suction Pipe
Front-mounted Intercooler, Piping
Exhaust Manifold, CATTED Extension
Insulator Cover, Insulator Sheet
Gaskets, Brackets, Bolts, etc.
A dyno tune should be mandatory on these, anyway.. I've heard the factory tunes have a bit of knock. I see some with 40K+ miles though, so it's probably not enough to do damage but still.. Just wish it didn't void the warranty, I'd get a tune immediately after buying it, if it didn't.
@@hhaste right? If I want faster I'll get a supra. Whatever few hp an exhaust system gives me is fine. These engines are known to blow, so I am not fucking up that warranty!
Always a good time when you put a sports car and Raiti together!
That looks like so much fun! 🏎
Thanks for your review's Joe and team, super-helpful.
I would say it is a perfect sports car. My buddies 86 drives phenomenal. I was thoroughly impressed. Nice to see the review reflects what I felt while driving. They really hit the mark.
That is really awesome to hear! Thanks for sharing that!
Woo Hoo!!! What a ride!! It's good to be The King of Raiti's Rides.
I'm so thankful they kept this car naturally aspirated. I've been driving a WRX for the past 20 years and I'm so looking forward to going back to my all-motor roots when my BRZ TS order comes in!
I’ve owned 2 WRXs and now the BRZ, just a totally different driving experience, you will love it I’m sure, rwd is just the best thrill, steer it buy the steering wheel so to speak, engaging everytime you go out, just the right amount of power and midrange torque, can’t say enough !! 😊
@@Tonga2 Ohh man that sounds perfect. I'm so excited, I can't wait! Thank you for sharing your perspective!
I've had my 06 STi for 16 years, now.. I think I'm going to buy a tS, myself.. but I do plan on boosting it in the future. Possibly a supercharger, though, to keep that N/A feel but we'll see.. the stock power might even be enough, after I drive it for a bit but it's such a good platform to build on.
@@hhaste Agreed! I get the impression that the 86/BRZ was designed to be "good enough" from the factory with full knowledge that it would be tuned to the moon and back in the aftermarket. I've read that the superchargers available can get it up to ~300 HP which I think would probably be plenty for a little 2800 lb car like this. I've also read about people getting the rear diff with a 4.3 final drive from the previous gen to replace the 4.1 final drive in the 2022+ so they can get more low end torque across the board at the cost of a little top end high speed. The possibilities seem endless.
@@jaron95 Exactly. I had my STi dyno tuned and makes 294WHP/344WTQ. Even being 600lbs heavier, it's still very fun to drive on the street. Around 300WHP out of the BRZ would be perfect and it would remain reliable. RWD and lighter weight, it would be so much fun for the road. You can actually row through the gears without doing 2-3X the speed limit before getting out of 2nd gear, like a Corvette or something else would.
Been wanting the BRZ for so long. Comes to 38-39K after tax, Bought mine nearly a month ago. Cant wait for it to be here!
That’s so fantastic! Congrats!
Is is better than a Miata?
@@RaitisRides- better than a Miata?
@@rembo183 Yes, it is. I'm 6' 2" and I fit, which automatically makes it better.
Where you order
I love when Raiti takes vehicles on throttle on Angel's Crest Highway. 🛣 Quite a view, along with awesome on throttle action . 👌
Thanks for riding shotgun with me Chris!
@@RaitisRides Always an honor Raiti
Your "look at what's going on" adds value . Please keep it up.
Awesome review Joe! Loved to see how happy you were driving it! Goes to show you dont need high HP to have a blast. The BRZ truly is incredible
The lower the HP, the more fun you can have on the street. Especially when the car is lightweight, like the BRZ/GR86 is. In something like a Corvette, by the time you redline 2nd gear, you're already going 80MPH.. You can't even row through the gears and have fun on the street with that much speed, without going 2-3x the speed limit and risking jail time or a car impound
Great review! I thoroughly enjoyed watching you have fun on the test run. 😄
Love this car. Had the previous gen BRZ Ltd for over 11 years (~140k miles). My new 2024 will be arriving in two weeks. First car/model I ever did a repeat-buy of.
Have you already received your nre BRZ ts? what do you think, Im between this one and the WRX TR
@@franklinalejandroparradopa3801 It arrived....though I've only had it for four days. It's been at the dealership for about three weeks now due to an issue with the Eye Sight Camera. Subaru's Tech Line has been unreasonably slow in responding to the dealership's service center. Tons of data has been sent to Subaru to identify the problem and they've been dragging their feet on the issue. Dealership is almost certain it's the windshield which has numerous imperfections that could affect the camera's view. Already, the camera system has been replaced without fixing the problem - and Subaru won't give authorization to replace the windshield. Next step is that Subaru is sending one of their engineers early next week to fix the issue. I spoke to a Subaru rep the other day telling them that they have 12 days left to fix it, otherwise I am taking full advantage of my state's Lemon Law and getting my money back to get a GR86.
Also, the car arrived with damage to the trunk....presumably from the factory or during transit to the dealership. Due to the location of the huge scratch, I'm thinking it was the factory. Beyond frustrated. My old BRZ was fantastic and was virtually trouble free. This new one, I didn't even get 150' from the dealership before warning lights were all lit up.
I had one of these fly past me on the highway, maybe he had special exhaust but that boxer from subaru sounded very nice
Wow, this is a magnificent review and the photography is brilliant. :)
That really means so much! Thank you!
You're right about buckling up your dog in the car! Lot's of dog harnesses have a slot on the back for the seatbelt to slide through. Great looking BRZ and fair price tag too. Thanks for the review.
Subie ❤ I'm around 125 miles south, but felt like I was right there. Thanks Joe 🤙🏼
Wow that color is awesome) Been wanting the BRZ for so long)
I am glad that I can bring this one to you!
Amazing review Joe.
I don't know that there is a better, more enthusiastic, professional car reviewer than Joe out there. Man, I love your work. And yeah, this is a car I might just buy, especially being a satisfied previous Subaru owner. Keep up the great work Joe.
Great review! I love that we still have this type of car available to buy. There is something so satisfying about a well set rwd chassis car with moderate power that is fairly light. Buy them while you can.
Hi Joe, Welcome back to L.A. I've been watching you long enough to know that what car actually makes you truly happy and this BRZ got that number for ya huh?
Every UA-camr that test these cars loves them. They smile almost as much as when they are in 300k Porsches. If you have roads like these near your house get one.
Ordered my limited brz in red last week, just got be patient, and watch more videos to tide me over. Been driving an 2008 si coupe for a few years now, excited to see the difference.
You are going to love it
Welcome to the red BRZ Limited club. I got mine a year ago and still watch these review videos on the regular 😂
Where and how did you order?
Congrats! That's going to be a blast, going from FWD to RWD with the extra power, handling etc.. I recommend getting an oil pressure gauge as soon as possible, though. If you're not familiar with the RTV sealant issue, look that up and you'll see why. Just for peace of mind, so you don't have to worry about constantly checking the oil pickup tube for excess sealant every couple thousand miles etc.. If it _ever_ drops, you'll know you prob have some sealant in there, then you can worry about checking it. I've heard removing the oil pan yourself will void the warranty, so it's better not to touch it.
nice, can't wait for some regular vs tS comparison vids
Love your joy in driving Joe!
I’m 64 and the BRZ will be my last sports car! Ordering this week.
This is so awesome to hear!
I've always dreamed of having a gt3 rs ... but I may end up getting one of those much sooner :D Joe, I've never seen you so happy :D nice video. thanks
That was a great video, Joe. I'm going to have to test drive one of these.
Thanks Brian! You really should!
Utterly in love with this car since I first saw the frs back in the day. One of my dream cars
Gotta LOVE that high revvin' Boxer!!
Joe, my car makes me happy. I know the feeling. Love it!
Joe. Wow. This is a drivers car! Nice color on the car and great review! I love my 2015 BRZ.
Joe and Steven, welcome to Cali! You definitely have go to In N Out before you go and enjoy a Double Double or 2 or 3 :). You are spot on with how special this car is on this road. Your 4-wheel therapy analogy was spot on! My wife and I are looking for a new, purpose-built manual sports car that won't break the bank. We have been looking at this BRZ tS, the GR 86 Performance and the Mazda Miata RF. I don't take for granted that all these cars are available right now, new and in the showrooms. The Miata may be down on power compared to the other 2 but having that retractable hard top in with the Cali weather is a combo hard to beat. Thanks again for the video. Your Subaru car knowledge and just car knowledge continues to impress. Keep up the great work and enjoy Cali!
Thank you my friend!
hey man i own both 2017 Miata and 2020 brz ts and if u want more of a daily commute sports car thats practical go ts if not miata wins with the hard top esp in cali. driver analog is similar i like input on steering from ts better and interior, mazda infotainment is horrible to but u cant beat the reliability from the miata man. that being said u can fit 4 mounted tires in the brz for track days if u cant trailer, if i could pick one its brz for me tho all day.
@@NotoriouslyRed Thanks for the insights. We have a good daily commute car that is very practical but that open air driving the Miata offers is something special. In perfect world I would have the Miata and one of the twins. I really think all 3 cars will be more sought after as time goes on. Thanks again. My wife and I are just going to have to test drive the cars and see which one feels right. The good thing is that there are no real losers here.
@@StandingUpForBettercongrats for doing this and remove yourselves from the high mass of bland cars out there; if only more manufacturers would think along the lines of mazda and toyota, the "driving world" would be a much much better place.
@@eugenux Thanks and agreed. Our "family" car is a Honda Civic Type R and my wife was on board with me getting it. After driving around in that car and seeing the difference between a normal commuter car, although my daily was also fine-tuned on the Nürburgring, the Type R really made car people out of my teenager and wife. Self-driving cars and automated everything have made cars more appliances than passion-built machines. To the best of my ability, I want to continue to support those car manufacturers who are giving us true enthusiasts' machines.
I know you like this car its old school fun .. Bensonhurst Brooklyn style .. Great video as always .
Yes its an amazing car! bought mine and was actually on hwy 2 two weekends ago. Car was made for that highway. I laughed and smiled just like you did on that road.
The only way to buy any BRZ is with a manual. The amount fun you’ll have with one
You are spot on the money!
I just don’t know how to drive a manual. Like I know how but I know I’d stall the car and burn the clutch out so quick on it
A rear spoiler with some more downforce? 🤣😂🤣
@noahcrust2903 if u have heavy traffic don't get a manual, don't let them bully you into it. A good automatic is fine unless u plan to add more then 100hp in mods, in the future. I drove a BRZ automatic and it was blast it was kinda better then my veloster turbos DCT
What is the hard on for manuals? I just don’t get it
Wow that color is awesome
I’m in love with it!
a lot of subies are in that color
@@RaitisRides Me too!
I know! Sapphire blue... I want one exactly like this. Love the bigger rims, brakes and the Ts logo!
I was leaning towards white myself. But then I saw this review and I gotta admit it does look great. With gold rims it’d be perfect.
Really is a beautiful car! I've wanted one for a long time. Have an '18 STi, but it's hard to justify 2 vehicles. Feel like I should buy a house with a garage first before I buy another car. Great review as always! Love the enthusiasm!
Love the video, potential buyer. Keep at it, brother!
You got it my friend!
The best thing about Subaru and Toyota's collaboration on this car is that if you like what you're seeing, but you're a Toyota fanboy, you can split the difference and get the GR86.
I think the collaboration works well! The flat motor with low center of gravity (obviously Subaru), the very rigid chassis (ahem - that is Toyota, reminds me of an Altezza). I'm guessing the gearbox is Toyota (R and 1 next to each other), but feels more like a Subaru one (Toyota manuals e.g Altezza again were pretty clunky). Body styling (particulary the front) looks like Toyota. But all in all, very nice fusion!
Joe and Lori and Steve keep up the good work real true and I love the video 👍
Man, I can tell that you thoroughly enjoyed this car.
For the Honda guys like me who always wished to own a S2000, this BRZ TS is lining up as my next car.
Always enjoy your reviews. I'm waiting on the 2024 Aston Martin Vantage review.
Stay tuned because I will be bringing it! Thanks for your support!
A terrific looking car; nice medium sized engine. An extremely good value as there are precious few sports cars under 40k in 2024. The purplish blue is very exotic.
U really like the look of the 1st gen over the 2nd. Just bought a 2019 86 TRD and it’s exactly what I was looking for. Has just enough power I kick out the tail whenever I want!
Raiti's Ride BRZ TS great car and great review always. l went for the 2023 WRX 6 speed, bigger car, mor power and AWD for snow driving, The BRZ is an excellent and fun winter car also.. WRX 4 door and my passengers so l got one
I have a ‘22 and if anything happens to it I’ll get another. Axle back exhaust & better pads or this Ts and you have a perfect sports car. There is just a purity to how she handles and responds to every input. She communicates very well so slides & drifts aren’t dramatic.
Love taking my 2023 BRZ on the Angeles Crest Highway in California, feels like a video game…until I get stuck behind an SUV or truck.
I love that feeling! Ty!
I love the Subaru BRZ tS is the Apostle to the Sports Cars & I love how it looks.
I love how its only 228hp and has a G meter lolololzzz. the wrx and sti dont even have a G meter
@@drywater3559 True
@@drywater3559 It's just a feature.. It prob has one due to how good it handles. The BRZ/GR86 is a great starting platform to mod, so having the meter would become useful later on, after some tuning. "Only" 228hp is still good for how light the car is. Basically identical times to a stock STi. Being an STi owner for the past 16 years, I know it wouldn't be that useful having one on a stock WRX/STi due to how much they understeer, without doing mods to it.
Really liking the styling and paint color on this subie
Nice review!
Ah, another tour of Angeles Crest highway ! On throttle 😎 Thanks Joe 👍
This one was much more fun than the id4. Would you agree Tom?
@@RaitisRidesyes ! Like a roller coaster ride 🙂
Its really a beautiful car. Seems like the most bang for the buck right now in 4cyl sports coupes.
You are so very right about that
I love the Toyota GT86 and Subaru BRZ, fun to drive
This car will hold its value well compared most others
Interesting comment. Think this might be spot on absolutely.😊😊😊
On throttle baby!!!!
Heck yeah
The joy on your face says it all!
making the magic happen, you leave me in stitches with every review😂
The innuendos are hilarious lmao
“Sessions”
It’s the perfect drivers car recipe for me. I’d take this over any RWD 2 door. I just wish they’d stop with the dark wheels and should have did a rear wing
"It moves your soul..." You know it's a special car when Joe utters these words!
I grew up racing dirt track Mini Stocks at the age of 15. They were 4 cylinders mainly RWD. So I enjoy RWD. AWD is nice but feeling the power from the rear and using it to get around corners is just a feeling other drivetrain setups cant replicate.
Great video. Love that car
That is so fantastic to hear!
I've been going back and forth between the BRZ and the Miata for months and I recently decided to order a 2024 Miata. Both have some weaknesses, but both are definitely amazing affordable mid $30s sports cars, which is a dying class of vehicle, perhaps limited to just these 3 options. Despite giving up the practicality of the BRZ, I chose the Miata primarily for the convertible experience. Open top driving just takes the fun to the next level, allowing you to hear the car better, in addition to feeling what it's doing. The tS is the only other car I seriously considered, but another strike against it was the fact that I don't plan to track or autocross my car, at least not very often, so I don't really need the braking and suspension capabilities of that car. Still love it though.
Just got mine after a *very* long wait, same color, same trim :) It's my 3rd (previous 1st gen FRS and then second gen 86) and it's already the best, by far. Didn't even consider anything else (well, 'cos I'm too tall for a Miata)--but it's even better than I thought it would be, which is saying a lot. Surprisingly, it's also a lot more refined on the daily commute than the first two versions (quieter interior, better gearing).
As thousands of us gave up on Nissan getting their act together for the new Z. Go get 'em Subaru! Neat color too.
My old Nissan ZX only had 222 HP but was still fun to drive. I was commuting to New York, not racing on the Autobahn.
The 91' 2+2 was my second car in highschool. It was an auto, but much heavier than these. I'm pretty sure these will feel quite a bit quicker than our old Zs!
Hatchback would rock
@AstroZombie1 would feel much quicker than our boat of a 2+2 that's for sure since these are very much lighter!
Amazing video Joe, I really can feel your joy and wants me to be there, I was thinking in the WRX but I think the BRZ is on the table. What would you prefer, BRZ Ts or GR86 Perf/Trueno?
Thank you in advance! greatings from Bolivia!
I got mine in February. The gearbox needs some temperature in it or it is difficult into second. The car is quite small and you have to be very aware of other traffic, I’ve been almost cleaned up by big SUV’S and the like who simply don’t see it. The engine has plenty of grunt, just over 1,000 kilometres so haven’t revved it past 4,000 yet but it likes to rev. Love the interior, very intimate and love the black everything. The Michelins are super grippy and get warm to touch just doing commuter driving.
i bought a silver brz ts about 2 weeks ago. i love it. just unplug the fake engine noise, and it will be great!
Definitely pushing sales for the Californian Youth in this video, but I appreciate the enthusiasm; the car is most assuredly deserving of it.
14:29 The dash trim, door trim, center console trim, and climate controls are silver in the Premium & Limited models. For the TS, they blacked it all out on purpose, makes the interior look a lot more sleek.
Big time and the best part is no glare!
I wish the made the all black with red stitch too
❤sounds good. Love the manual transmission. To me you have a better control on a manual. Is fun to drive
Great review of a really compelling package (yes I’d take it over the 2.0 Supra). I’d be interested to know how the ts tuning compares to the performance package - is it a discernible difference?
When you think about how far cars have come it's amazing. The new GR86 is considered a "slow" straight line car 0-60: 5.5ish but in the 90's a FERRARI TESTAROSSA (V12) which was like top of the line was laying down about the same 0-60! Its not all about straight line speed the GR86 is a great sports car
good point! plenty quick to have fun w and a very attractive car to boot
Love the sound of that flat-4.
Same here!
Beautiful car it’s on my list for my next car. That or the GR86. Funny fact I’ve taken pictures of my car in that exact same spot you where reviewing the BRZ
The great thing is, the GR86's front bumper (which I think looks better) is a direct fit on the BRZ. So, you can get either one without worrying about which looks better. It just depends which suspension feel you prefer, etc.
@@hhaste ok yeah I think it’s much easier to try to get a BRZ than a GR86 plus from the videos I’ve seen. They say BRZ has a better stock suspension and I can fit the 86 bumper on the BRZ that makes it easier for me to choose
@@hhaste My BRZ is in black, lowered / wide wheels / duckbill spoiler, and all of a sudden I prefer my BRZ bumper - originally wanted the GR but had to go the BRZ - so glad I did now!
Glad to see a few automakers still making driver engagement cars. As E30, 240's, Lexus IS's and others are aging out. Cars like the BRZ are still achievable new and will be great in the secondary market as well.
This is so very true Quinton!
This car making Joes face look like a California Raisin he's loving it so much. 🤣
You are so freaking hilarious! I did love it greatly!
For some reason in Canada, upgrading from Sport Tech/Limited to tS only costs less than 2000 CAD
Love the color matching shirt lol
I'm still loving my 2023 Subaru BRZ w/custom paint job Black/Gold (Gold Rims)
reminds me of my 240z, not a super car but pure joy and fun to drive...sounds great too
AGREED
Just a quick 30 minutes from where I call home!
Oh wow! You lucky dog
That was so much fun! It brought back some special memories of growing up and driving all the glorious canyons of so-cal. If Thanos could snap his fingers and make the cities and people there disappear, I'd move back in a heartbeat.
How does the Hitachi suspension on the TS compare to the 86's Sach's dampers?
Also has Subaru sharpened the throttle response on the TS over the standard BRZ?
If the car can have dimming mirror as standard features, that would be great 👍
You nailed it. Joe, the car is all about driver engagement. With a car built like the BRZ that weighs 2850 lbs, 230 hp power should be plenty. The Subaru people have it right. The car only needs to be available with a manual transmission. I can't think of another car that would be more fun to drive other than maybe a Porsche that you'd have to pay three times or more for. Thanks for the driving demo, I'm ready now to go out and improve my driving skills.😊
I love the way you think!
Curvy roads and that car....let's go!
My son is waiting for his GR86 to come in. We are both excited to get behind the wheel and take it for a rip…
Nice! I think I'm going to get one, myself.. be sure to get an oil pressure gauge as soon as you can. If you're not familiar, look up the RTV sealant issue. That way, you can monitor the gauge without having to keep taking the oil pan off and checking to see if any excess sealant broke off and is clogging up the oil pickup tube. If the pressure ever drops at all, you'll know it's from the RTV in the pickup tube and you can get it dealt with before it causes any problems.
I have the 2023 BRZ in that color. I laugh like that every day. Awesome car
That is so fantastic to hear!
I REALLY like the blacked out interior. I think they should do that across the GR86 / BRZ lineup. Just looks cleaner and cohesive.
I totally agree with you!
Thrilling comparison
I wish this bad boy had more horsepower, but damn that's a beautiful ride.
Trust me I know exactly how you feel
My buddy’s son bought a 2024 BRZ, I drove it, it’s an awesome sports car, unreal road handling, good power, BUT, Subaru should bump that HP to north if 250, ( in my opinion), fantastic gear box , and great fun that won’t break the bank
Thanks for the thoughts from your experience!