It wasn't Covid that changed that. Even before Covid hit us Cabela's would put their Brass Pietta 1851 Navy on sale two times a year for $169.99 . Just before Father's day and around the Christmas holiday. That all changed when Bass Pro Shops merged with Cabelas. This happened before Covid.
Black powder is a tinkering man's game. Pietta is an awesome introduction to the concept. Don't be afraid to take a brand new, fresh out of the box gun apart and hit it with Emery board or valve seat paste to smooth out the action. Brownell's, VTI and Dixie Gun Works are now your new best friends, so open a separate line of credit at the bank and tell your spouse you're not going to Orlando next year. You're now an addict.
Lmao. Heck yes. I’m so excited for this new black powder hobby! I’m kind of sketched out by how volatile the powder can be… and also I “ocd” for lack of a better term, about like how each revolver is different and steel and brass frames and the diameters of the barrels. Etc. Rifling if any? I don’t wanna mess up anything or be a fool. So imma do as much research as possible before I even mess with one. I seriously am excited as heck. Just like when I turned 18 and got my first shotgun and I studied it in and out and took it apart and cleaned it and maintenance and all. As an addict of many things, it’s nice having more hobbies to add to my addictions lol. My vices in my hedonistic lifestyle babyyyyy
Yeah the recommendations are good, just don't buy from Taylor's and Co. because you'll pay way more for the exact same thing and get ripped off in the process, I think they sell factory seconds!
I am 68 years old and I have been shooting cap and ball revolvers since I was 18. I am not an expert, but I do have a lot of experience (translation: I have made a lot of mistakes). I completely agree with the recommendation of the 1851 Navy in 36 caliber as a good starter revolver, however I would go with Uberti instead of the Pietta. The lower initial cost of the Pietta is more than lost in the amount of repairs required in the first 2 years, if you shot them a good amount. I have owned several of each of them and my experience with Pietta has less than stellar. Broken springs, going out of time, etc. Regardless of which brand you buy. you should include a good set of aftermarket nipples. I consider that the best upgrade that you can make to an Italian replica cap and ball revolver. The original factory nipples suck.
Without a doubt. I bought a Pietta Remington for my first black powder gun. Not pretty in the least and very rough action. When I decided to upgrade to an Uberti it was leaps and bounds better in every way. I only get Uberti now. The Pietta quickly got stowed away as an extra. I'll keep it just in case I have a friend or family member that wants to try black powder shooting. I make it a rule, to try when I can, to have two copies of a gun anyway. One to keep nice and baby it, and one to let friends or family use when they want to. Nothing can mess a gun up faster than friends or family.
Maybe. I very recently purchased a Pietta 44 in brass and have over 500 hundred balls through her. I’m pretty attached to my ‘confed’ 58 Navy in 44 (never really originally manufactured) but I consolidated to all 44s. I load it to the brim and she’s still a shooter.
More than once, I have walked into Bass Pro to look at a Pietta, only to find the actions ranging from ridiculously rough to completely frozen up. Now Uberti actions certainly need polishing right out of the box, but I've never experienced a Uberti out of the box as rough as any Pietta I have handled. Also, if you intend to shoot conicals, you can add the cost of a new plunger, as Pietta plungers don't work with conicals.
Many years ago I was a pistol-obsessed teen in Western Australia. At my local club I shot 22 free pistol, centrefire 25 target and 10m air. One day someone brought along their cap and ball revolver and generously let me shoot. What a blast! Huge noise, smoke and as much recoil as a 22. So much fun.
@@TBL4848Sorry, I don't know about the current laws. I seem to recall that there were restrictions on shooting black powder; not permitted during bushfire ban season.
I bought a .44 CVA 1860 Colt Army kit for about $60 40 years ago. It’s still going strong and very accurate. My only complaint is the trigger/bolt spring tends to break when fanning, which I learned not to do anymore.
I got a ‘61 navy as a gift around 1980-81 Years later (‘90s ) I bought a new model army Remington & that started me on a collection that now is 40plus guns. I only shoot 2. The Remington & a ‘51 navy. You really have to try shooting cap & ball revolvers. You won’t regret it
I got into black powder about almost a year ago I've learned so much along the way and still find myself getting very excited when something new comes about and when there's good gun shows with black powder stuff it's always fun to see what people have and check out other people's stuff and compare and just talk about black powder it's really fun
Love the Remington, and the 1851 Navy. My absolute favorite is probably the Colt Walker. It's got such a presence. Nothing grabs attention more. I have had guys just leave their targets at the gun range to walk over to look at the Walker when I bring it out. When that baby goes off, there is nothing sweeter. That's not smoke all around you, it's history!
I bought a repro 44 Remington and had lots of fun with it. I chose that because it has a stronger, more rigid design and easier to sight with (Colts use a notch in the hammer as a sight). For a 44 Colt Army or 44 Remington model, the max load is about 30 grains (by weight) of fffg or equivalent volume of Pyrex P. Turns out an empty .38 Special shell holds almost exactly 25 grains (a very useful load). When filled and scraped off level with the case mouth, it can be used as a dipper. Using a .357 Mag shell as a dipper (again scraped off level with thecae mouth) will load a little more, about 28 grains. Note there are 7,000 grains in a pound. To cast bullets, I had both round ball (Lee 454-DC which is the correct diameter--.454 dia--since it is lightly compressed when seated over the powder) and conical (Lee 450-200-1R) molds, both worked well. Range scrap lead worked fine. In theory, the revolvers cannot be loaded with too much powder since if too much is added, the ball will stick out of the chamber and the cylinder cannot be rotated under the hammer. In theory. My advice is don’t risk a tragedy, a light to “midrange” load is easier on the gun, on you, and on your wallet. Note that these approach the power, by comparison, of a 45 LC round using black powder (40 gr ffg or fffg black powder with a 250-gr lead bullet), a proven, potent killer. The round ball has killing power all out of proportion to its seemingly anemic calculated energy. It has roughly the energy of a 38 special with a 45-caliber diameter bullet that hits hard.
I've been shooting the same 1851 Navy since 94. Cap and ball revolvers are a lot of fun for little money. You definitely have to break out the stones and work on the action. The factory's don't spend much time smoothing out of machine marks or spend extra attention fitting the action. Plus the time you spend doing it will help you understand how things work.
Been shooting black powder for less than a year and it's quite addictive. Already have pietta 1851 colt, pietta 1858 new model army and a uberti 1858 new model carbine revolver rifle.
How do you like your revolving rifle? I’ve always wanted the 1858 carbine but the reviews I’ve seen have talked about the wonky sights (shooting high and couldn’t adjust the windage). How does it shoot for you?
Remington all the way! The top strap make a difference both for strength and for sighting. There are also very few cap jams with a Remington as opposed to the colts.
LeMat all the way since you get 9+1 shots instead of 6… I think LeMat was even used in a spaghetti western as a ‘trick gun’ to highlight the higher capacity, but I forgot what it was called though...
There is a lot of research to do before getting into black powder revolvers, and a lot of equipment. My first black powder revolver was a CVA 1851 Navy in 44 cal that I bought from my uncle, who in turn had previously inherited it from my grandpa. My next was a Pietta 1860 Army, then a Uberti Colt Walker. I stuck to 44 cal as the ammo is easier to find. Though I did find that my Walker is more accurate with .454 balls, where the other two are .451
I just purchased my first cap and ball revolver the other day, an Uberti 1851 Colt Navy London model. Your videos are very entertaining and informative. Thanks for the great content.
As a teen I took my cheap Colt Navy to a firing range. The pistols went Craack, Craack, Craack. Mine just went Boom ! Everybody stopped shooting , came over, and said "What was THAT ?" I let them shoot it and they loved how it shot.
Great recommendation, Dustin. I believe Wild Bill Hickok(?) was a Colt 1851 Navy man. If it was good enough for him it's good enough for any lesser mortal.
My first thought was the 1851 and the 1860 as they're two easy to load, fire and clean guns. They don't weigh or cost a bunch, you can fire reasonable loads that'll give you a good show without breaking your wrist and most importantly, they don't have any of the problems like you see with the Walker and LeMat (as much as I love the LeMat). Note - the 1851 does come in .44 as that's what I got when I purchased mine back in the 90s. As for changing the cylinder for rapid reloading, meh - unless you want to purchase a bunch of cylinders (which is expensive) it's better to just make some paper cartridges - plus, black powder shooting is about sitting back, relaxing and enjoying yourself while doing so, not about seeing how many holes you can make in the target.
Only do the Remington 1858 and buy a bunch of cylinders for rapid reloading if you are using it as a carry gun if you are a felon (felons can legally use black powder guns). Also in that case, use pyrodex so it won’t make fouling, since fouling is a big issue with the Remington’s...
Brass frame is an option, however I find that steel holds resale value better. For a first time, total new to black powder brass would be ok, if one does not like not out so much. Eh however I will agree that the .36 cal is an excellent tooth cutter
I bought a Uberti walker from a pawn shop for $200, shot it maybe twice, then sold it. Kicking myself now, cuz I want one again and they cost almost twice as much nowdays.
Found your channel about a year ago and you got me hooked! Now I have a Pietta steel frame .36 caliber 51 Navy (gotta go correct personally), and a Uberti 2nd model dragoon, and I love them both. Black powder is great fun to shoot, and you can shoot all day without actually putting too many rounds down range. I would very much like to add either a 60 Army or 61 Navy in the future, they're beautiful guns.
I plan on getting a pietta 1851 navy engraved deluxe. It may be more pricy but it is very much what i think is fun and stylish. It is also .36 and i love the navies.
My first black powder revolver was the 1851 brass frame and I enjoyed the sport so much I upgraded to more expensive black powder revolvers I totally agree with your recommendation that the 1851 is probably the best starting out revolver for new black powder shooters.
The Remington is a nice choice, but leaves little room for comfortable grip if you have big hands. I chose the Uberti 1860 as I wanted a 44 which was more period correct. They are a blast to shoot, and get a lot of attention at the range.
@@franciswashack89 I handled a Pietta made Remington and found there was not enough clearance between the trigger guard and grip for me to grip the weapon comfortably. Beyond that I was after a more historically accurate weapon. Uberti does not have a banner visible on the barrel like Pietta.
I have a pietta 1860 army and it’a fun but cap jams and cap suction is an issue , so I might buy a Remington new model army because of the different design
While making a video on my first generation Colt Single Action Army. I stumbled across a Hartley and Graham 1882 catalog. And it actually has air guns listed. The second I saw that. it made me think of you.
Everything I know about black powder shooting I learned from Dustin. Simple as that. I own a Pietta 1851 Colt Navy in 36 caliber. Some folks think 36 caliber is underpowered. LOL. Twenty grains of powder in that thing and you can put a hole clean through and out the other side of a green (and empty) propane canister. That is fairly heavy steel, and the 36 Navy is far from underpowered. Trust me on this.
As I understand it, Wild Bill Hickok carried two 1851 Navy revolvers in a waistband scarf style holster, and on one occasion killed a man at 70 feet aiming over his arm with one. They are more than deadly enough, and light enough that you don't need a horse to carry them.
@@heathgillies6687 Or civil war Minie balls just "bouncing" off uniform jackets at 100 yards. At the same time they can go through like 4 people at once. I guess bullets work off of belief then.
Lots of memories from long ago with my very first revolver, the 1851 Navy purchased around 1976, it's a wall decoration now because as you said...the brass frame tends to get a little loose after lots of use.
My first cap and ball revolver is my pietta 1860 army. Got it on sale at Cabela's a few years ago and I love it! Picked up a Ruger old army a few months ago and now I have a pietta 1851 navy London model on back order. Some day I want to get a stainless Remington new army.
Thanks Dustin for all you Black Powder videos. I used your videos and a few others to help me make the decision on what BP revolver I was going to buy. I eventually settled on the Brass Frame Pietta 1858 New Army revolver which is now selling at Cabelas for $249.99. I have not gone to shoot it in a while because I can not find anyone selling percussion caps locally and i do not want to pay a huge hazmat fee to ship them. I did buy one of those gizmos to make my own caps and use Prime all to fill them. I'm keeping all that set aside in case I need it for the Zombie Apocalypse. That's where they find the third inoculation turns some people into the walking dead.
My first handgun of any kind 20 years ago was a Pietta 1851 navy 36 caliber. It was a Christmas present from my father that year as I had just read a Texas history book call “Jeff Davis‘ Own” about the 2nd United States cavalry and Texas Rangers on the Texas frontier in the 1850s. This gun was pictured and mentioned prominently as a weapon of choice in that book. My gun has seen a lot of use and abuse over the years. After 20 years I think the time has come to have it refurbished and “blacksmith converted” (gated feeding port while leaving ball loading lever for realism, budget and to retain original look) to fire 38 Long colt by a professional. Even to this day with all the other guns that are in my collection I still enjoy loading it up and shooting
Ramble on all you want, I'm listening. My question is How do I choose my NEXT Black Powder Revolver? Lol. The only one I dont have is the Dragoon and the 1851 Navy in Black Powder, I do have it as a cartridge conversion though. The next BP firearm I'm setting my sights on, is an 1861 Springfield! Great information Dustin!
Great info. Thank you! I did go Remington new army for the cylinder swap you suggest however not for hot swapping necessarily but I believe it to be one of the first examples of rapid reload capability which lead to the invention of the auto loading sidearm. Maybe I just tell myself this but I am excited for this new journey.
Thanks to channels like this one, I was able to figure out what I wanted as a newbie BP shooter. I went for the Remington Navy by Uberti first. I replaced the nipples with slixshot nipples, and it worked right out of the box. Now my second gun, an 1851 Colt Navy by Pietta, was much more finicky. I, again, replaced the nipples, but it just wouldn't work as smooth as the Remington. So, I'd say, for a new shooter, go for the caliber you want and stick to that caliber for a while. It saves a bit on money, and you won't have to carry different balls and charges. Again, thanks to Guns of the West I'll be making paper cartridges for the next round of shooting... Keep these videos coming!
I confirm that Pietta's revolvers are much more reliable than Uberti's. In order to improve raliability of my Uberti's Remington NMA i have replaced main spring (hammer spring) with Pietta one, which is much thicker than original. It cures almost all of failrue to fire issues, it's now much better than with original spring. Remington requires cylinder pin to be lubricated - layer of lubricant/grease will prevent fauling from getting between pin and cylinder and for the same reason it's also required to grease on top of cylinder chambers on each shot - grease will accumulate fauling.
Thank you for the video. While I've been into western gun's for awhile I've only gotten into black powder in the last few month's. I love all of those revolver's, but what really got me hooked was the Diablo and Desperado from American Gun Craft. My hand's are full of arthritis and pouring in and measuring powder is difficult and messy for me. But then I found out about the different black powder pellets and it's a lot easier. Also traditions has a rifle called the Nitrofire, they built it for federal and they made 2 black powder cartridge's which are preloaded with black powder. It's easy and fun for this old fart. I'm looking forward to expanding my black powder firearm's. Sincerely Ruger Rich
I've been a bit of research on the terrible cap jams I've been having with my Pietta .44 1851 Navy, will be making a video soon I hope. Also, everyone says the Remington style is "stronger" due to the "top strap"... but the more I think about it, the weakness is the cylinder itself, and if the Remington has a smaller arbor, that cylinder is going to shoot itself loose long before any issue involving the "top strap" would come into play. In other words, I don't think the Colt design is inherently "weaker" than the Remington.
For modern sport shooting you might be correct, but the Remington NMA was very popular with soldiers of the Civil War because of its design featuring that "top strap". The Remington-Beals, Remington Army, and Remington NMA were less prone to frame stretching from repeated and heavy usage than the Colt was. That and the cylinder switch for rapid reloading was easier to manage than doing the same with a Colt pistol of the era, although the Army did not provide spare cylinders. The design feature of the half-stop safety was copied by Colt on their pistols after Remington implemented it first in 1863. The more rugged top strap design of the NMA was also influential on Colt's design for the cartridge loading Single Action Army, better known as the Colt Peacemaker. The only thing that might be considered a flaw of the design is the fact that the barrel and frame are one piece making it more difficult to clean the barrel.
@@blacksheep_edge1412 Thank you for your response, and I understand what you're saying. However, I don't see how there is less damage to the frame between one design and the other. It's been a while since I took physics, but we have to remember that each action has an equal and opposite reaction-- exactly opposite. So, the cylinder is striking (and digging into) the rear of the frame with the exact same force as the bullet has as it's leaving the chamber. Whether there is a top strap or not, that damage and "gouging" to the rear of the frame from the cylinder will be the same. And therefore, the space between the cylinder and the forcing cone will inevitably increase with each shot, on both designs-- because with each shot, the cylinder will be able to move further and further back into the frame. I don't think the damage is to the front part of the frame, I think the "stretching" happens at the weakest link-- that cylinder which is able to move freely from forward to back, striking the back of the frame. Also, keep in mind that there is no such thing as an object being EXACTLY straight, so if the arbor is at any angle at all, no matter how small, that cylinder is going to exert an impact on the arbor as well, and the thinner it is, the more likely it is to bend. I have heard several times the assertion that the Remington design was popular with Civil War soldiers due to the top strap. Being a serious Civil War student and geek myself, I am very curious about this-- do you have or know of any accounts, statement, letters, descriptions, journals etc from the time period, in which a soldiers say they prefer the Remington design? Rest assured my intention is not to argue with you, I would simply be very curious to read such accounts. I am currently studying and writing up a small-scale cavalry battle that took place near me, in which pistols played a pivotal role. And for that am reading a couple of journals/memoirs of cavalry commanders who operated here.
@@historyandhorseplaying7374 Also the problem is more with brass framed Colts than steel framed Colts. Brass has less tensile strength than steel does so brass frames are more prone to the stretching problems seen in open topped Colt pistols.
The 2nd Model Dragoon by Uberti was my first choice, and it doesn't disappoint! I was used to shooting modern pistols, so recoil was not an issue. After trying out a Walker Colt, I still wanted the power of a hand cannon for my first old West revolver. The Dragoon has almost all the power of the Walker, but the balance is FAR better. It just FEELS comfortable even though it weights 4 lbs., and compared to any modern pistol using smokeless powder, the .44 cal. Dragoon using black powder is soft in recoil and just plain fun. I felt it was worth the $350.00, which is more expensive than others.
My first black powder handgun is an Ethan Allen .36 pepper box I bought in kit form from Kmart back in the mid 80s. My second is the Remington .44 new army which I really like and bought this late 80s. My third is a colt 58 replica in steel frame .36 caliber I bought late 90s. I still have all 3 guns. The pepper box is fun to shoot but I couldn’t hit the side of a barn with it. The others are very accurate and fun to shoot as well. I also have a 50 caliber Thompson Center Hawken I built from a kit. My mom got it for me one Christmas in the early 80s. This was my first black powder gun. I also have a double 12 gauge Italian muzzleloader that is a blast to shoot.
my guess would be that people like the Remington because it more closely resembles what we're used to seeing in Modern Revolvers. That's what draws my attention to it.
my .02 cents owning a few of these, the Remington new army with its small arbor actually functions better when heavily fouled because there is less surface area binding the cylinder movement. This is assuming youre using only one cylinder and just reloading like normal, not swapping them out. just personal experience but i still prefer the colt navy.
My first handgun? Ruger Old Army. 40 years ago. Stainless of course. One off aluminum and brass shoulder stock. And a cartridge conversion cylinder I've yet to try out.
When I decided to get into black powder... I jumped in head first. I bought , in about three months, a "new Army" .36 cal. A model 1851 Navy .36 cal. Then a 1860 .44 cal. The extra layer is a T.C. Patriot .45 cal. and an Ardesa. That one looks sort of like the Patriot and is through Traditions firearms. Head first into the deep end. And... along with the pistols there is a T. C. Hawken. Smoke and thunder!
I do agree, the gunshop borescrub is very expensive here( I reside in South Africa). I use hot water and dishwashing liquid. Since well with very hot water and there you go. Afterwards a quick spray with WD40 and a brush, barrel pull through with a 2x4 patch and good for next time.
Thanks! We are interested in shooting black powder, and are even thinking of getting a muzzloading coach gun. Thanks for the research, it has sure helped us!
first got a 51 Navy in 44 then a 47 Walker half-price at a pawn shop then sold the Navy and got a better one in 36 for half price and now have a 60 Army on layaway also for over a benji less than the usual store price so I have 3x more than I ever intended but theyre cool and the deals were rather irresistible
I just bought a pietta .36 cal Colt Navy. Had it for a couple of days, shot it, leading to find out that the bolt spring (i think thats what its called) *or the metal bolt that locks the cylinder in place* broke into 2 pieces. Instantly shipped it back, and waiting for a new Colt Navy to show up at my door. I really enjoyed shooting it and recommend buying the pietta .36 cal Colt Navy as a first Black Powder Revolver.
Just get the part You'll break plenty of them More if you just sit around cocking it, they work harden and break You also can replace with a wire type but I never like the feel of those
I was able to pick up a used pietta 1851 navy for I think $150 on gunbroker! Was a little rusted internally and some parts were worn and the action was messed up, but pietta sells a $35 parts kit and I did a few other mods like polishing the hammer face, deburring the cylinder stops, modifying the size of the bolt, and she works smooth now! Kept original cylinder hand tho because I would have needed to do some fine tuning on the new one.
I went with the Remington 1858 Army. It was simply because I wanted the top strap above the cylinder for strength. It also had the side benefit of being easy to remove the cylinder and put in a conversion cylinder to shoot modern bullets.
Me n my shooting buddy are starting to shoot black powder is becsuse we have a very hard time finding primers and powder for our modern rifles. But we're going to be buying the Pieta 1858 Rem Army. Great videos bud, thanks for the great info.
My first black powder revolver was Uberti 1st Model Dragoon that "spoke to me" in a gun shop. Then a couple of 1860 Army clones including a stainless one. But the one that I have kept through thick and thin was an old Navy Arms made by Pietta Remington Army. I got it used and abused in the early 1980s and have used it for my black powder revolver doings ever since.
Great video! I just got my first and I’m an idiot but a lucky one. Got piettas new army, the one on the right. Had no idea about the cylinder swap I just prefer a topstrap so yeah. Great video!
Thank you so much, this was a very interesting piece and so well done. Maybe on occasion a bit of historical interest thrown in......something from the past....a war story, a law enforcement story, a fast bit thrown in having to do with a particular firearm you happen to be showing and describing for us. It would bring the past to life, and make us feel like the ownership of such a weapon would somehow, in it's own way, connect us with the past. Thanks again......good stuff.
Good list. My first was the 1851 Navy in .36 cal. by Uberti. I wouldn't worry about the recoil of a .44 vs .36 - yes there is a visible difference when shooting something like a 1860 Army with 24 grain loads, vs a 1862 Police with 15 grains of powder, but black powder recoil is really mild - until you get to something like a p53 Enfield with a full military load of 60 grains, and a 500 grain bullet, shooting revolvers is a breeze. For me, the deciding factor was the iconic status of the 1851 Navy - associated with such figures as Wild Bill Hickock, Robert E. Lee, Ulysses S. Grant, William T. Sherman, and the beautiful octagonal barrel just narrowly won it for the 1851 for me, though the 1860 army has no less of a prdigree, being the much improved version, shooting a .44 cal. bullet with a heavier load, while not increasing the size, and weight of the revolver (except an extra 1/2 inch barrel, and a slightly bigger grip for hands wearing gloves). Though if I had to pick the pinnacle of Colt's percussion revolvers, I'd go with the 1862 police - a pocket-sized frame in .36 caliber, though a bit less powerful than the 1851 (despite being the same caliber, the pocket version holds less powder, and has a shorter barrel), but that much more comfortable to carry. But the pocket models are an acquired taste - I love my "little guys" - baby dragoon in .31, and police in .36, but for your first gun, you probably want something full-sized. Many people choose the Remington, because it has a better system for carrying 6 loaded, closed frame, and the cylinder comes out without disassembling the gun, but as mentioned - Colts are more resistant to fouling, and I'm just a fan of Colts.
I have a Remington New Army 44. It has been passed down through my family for years. I got mine when I was around 14 years old, that was back in 1975. I love the gun, but mostly keep put up these days. I have few other Black powder weapons I use.
I got I to blackpowder last year with a 1851 navy in .36 from euroarms. And a pietta 1860 army in .44 both brass framed guns. They are fun to shoot, I boil the whole barrel and cylinder in water and dawn dish soap. And then dry them off in the oven at 140 or so after scrubbing the bore. Easiest way to clean them when they are really dirty. Then coat them with oil when dry to prevent rust.
All my black powder revolvers so far have been Colt, but I do want to buy a Remington next. I used to be able to go to Cabela's and buy them over the counter and bring them home, no questions asked. And buy them online and have them shipped to my house. But after Sandy Hook, both became illegal. Even for black powder guns. It has to go through a licensed dealer and a background check.
Loving your vids. I'm almost convinced on a .36. Your logic is so straightforward... but then for my first smokeless revolver I really want a .500. Never been accused of being bright.
I'm an 1860 Army man I have three. I do own a walker a1862 police pocket a 1858 Remington and an 1861 Navy. I'm looking for a 1851 if I could find one in stock. Mine are all uberti all because of the markings on the barrel and the Pietta tail on the Navy.
I have both the Colt New Army 1860 and the Remington New Army 1858. The Remington is easier to load the caps. I find it more difficult to place the caps on the Colt. Also I have more issues with the caps either falling off or discharged caps hanging up between the cylinder and the hammer area on the Colt. I can also load the cylinders on the Remington with a loader separate from the gun itself and exchange cylinders without disassembling the gun. I usually carry 2 extra cylinders. For safety sake, however, I do not place the caps on the cylinders until the cylinder is in place on the gun. I do enjoy your videos.
@@bill7778, the problem that I have is that there is less room for my large fingers to fit the caps on with the Colt. I also have less room to place the powder pellets in place as well as the balls.
Excellent point about reloading off the gun. I do that too. Gives me a chance to slick up the cylinder pin with a little grease too. I shoot a hundred plus rounds a session like that all the time.
My very first one was a 36 caliber 1858 Remington and that was back in 97. I will say in recent years overtime I have collected and their most of them are the Remington but I've gotten 44 and also a stainless. Have been thinking about buying some 31 calibers. Also have a double barrel 12 gauge, a 44 caliber Hawkins and also a 50 caliber Hawkins rifle and a 44 caliber revolving rifle
@@corneliussulla9963 what about the fouling of the pin? Is it not as bad as people make it out to be? To my knowledge you can replace nipples on the 1851 and have no cap jams whereas I dont know what you would do to keep the pin of an 1858 clean. How does it shoot for you?(still trying to make my decision might just get them both).
@@grante.7525 After 5-6 cylinders I rather have problems with a worsening acuracy than with a gummed up cylinder pin. The fouling in the barrel opens up your group a lot after 30-40 shots. And therefore I have to give the barrel a quick cleaning with a bore snake. And when Im already at it, I clean the cylinder axis too, with the rough side of a kitchen sponge and Ballistol. And it depends on the powder that you use. Swiss powder doesnt make such a mess as cheap powders do. Im using Czech powder becaue this is the only one I was able to buy. Its neither the best, nor the worst. Medium, I would say. So, the mechanism inside the Revolver wont gum up. And a quick cleaning of axis and barrel takes less than a minute. The loading of one cylinder takes longer. And another good thing about the Remington is that you can buy several cylinders and change them within seconds. You cant do that with a Colt.
I started shooting black powder in early 2021 and really enjoy it. I have two, one steel and one brass, Pietta 1851 Navy Colt in .36 Caliber. I would like to upgrade to Uberti revolvers and maybe a 44 Cal 1860 Colt Army style.
I got in to black powder about 2 years ago, I was out and about pawn shop, shopping and they had this pieta Remington new Army 44 brass frame in the case all polished up. I seen it and said ooh pretty, what's the paper work like on something like this. That's when they told me it was an antique collectible and no paperwork at all. So I asked what is the going price with everything that comes with it? One of the tricks to buying a gun in the pawn shop ask what all comes with it, you might get lucky and get a holster. They said $240. I said sold to the old guy with the white beard, okay do you take Visa? It came with a pound of powder, nipple Grease, a tin of number 10 caps, patches, a powder measure. Ran around for a day trying to find balls, nipple wrench etc,etc. Three different places, nothing in the way of what I needed. But had black powder stuff, just not what I needed or in my caliber. Then I remembered the black powder place on the river that I have probably drove by 3 million times in my life time. Muzzleloader supplies. And they had everything I wanted and probably a few things I shouldn't have bought, got a holster, all my nipple needs, a bag to put everything in, two boxes of .454 balls. Another pound of powder, three tins of caps. Cleaning brushes, two extra cylinders and pouches to carry them in. I have just been having the time of my life with this old percussion revolver. And I call it old because it was produced in 1989. It's even saved my life from meth heads who thought they were going to rob me. For some reason the sight of it makes people awfully agreeable, drawing back the hammer gets their full undivided attention. Pull a knife on me? But my favorite one was the meth dealer on the bicycle that I chased off my property because he was doing meth deals at the end of my driveway because it's secluded. And he had the audacity to pull out a small caliber semi-automatic can't be sure but I think it was a 25 caliber Colt and at about 100 ft away dumped the magazine at me, holding it sideways. Don't know where those rounds went but none of them came close. So I unholstered the Remington, as I am drawing back to hammer telling him okay my turn now. And put one into the ground at his feet. Never seen someone run so fast in my life, he left his bicycle. Haven't seen or heard from him since. Since it was getting to be dusk I think it was the big flame out the barrel with all the smoke that scared him more than anything.
Check out the Guns of the West store here: gunsoftheweststore.com
I have a Pietta made 1860 “Confederate” made for Traditions.
In the good old days before Covid, I ordered an 1851 Pietta from Cabela's for $150, and it was delivered to my house.
Nice!
It wasn't Covid that changed that. Even before Covid hit us Cabela's would put their Brass Pietta 1851 Navy
on sale two times a year for $169.99 . Just before Father's day and around the Christmas holiday.
That all changed when Bass Pro Shops merged with Cabelas. This happened before Covid.
@@Bill23799inflation due to Covid still a factor, everything is more expensive
They still get deliverd to your house I think
They're $370 now :((
Black powder is a tinkering man's game. Pietta is an awesome introduction to the concept. Don't be afraid to take a brand new, fresh out of the box gun apart and hit it with Emery board or valve seat paste to smooth out the action. Brownell's, VTI and Dixie Gun Works are now your new best friends, so open a separate line of credit at the bank and tell your spouse you're not going to Orlando next year. You're now an addict.
This comment has been fact checked: True
Lmao. Heck yes. I’m so excited for this new black powder hobby! I’m kind of sketched out by how volatile the powder can be… and also I “ocd” for lack of a better term, about like how each revolver is different and steel and brass frames and the diameters of the barrels. Etc. Rifling if any? I don’t wanna mess up anything or be a fool. So imma do as much research as possible before I even mess with one. I seriously am excited as heck. Just like when I turned 18 and got my first shotgun and I studied it in and out and took it apart and cleaned it and maintenance and all. As an addict of many things, it’s nice having more hobbies to add to my addictions lol. My vices in my hedonistic lifestyle babyyyyy
Yeah the recommendations are good, just don't buy from Taylor's and Co. because you'll pay way more for the exact same thing and get ripped off in the process, I think they sell factory seconds!
@@jimihendrix4376everything they sell is expensive.
So true dang
I am 68 years old and I have been shooting cap and ball revolvers since I was 18. I am not an expert, but I do have a lot of experience (translation: I have made a lot of mistakes). I completely agree with the recommendation of the 1851 Navy in 36 caliber as a good starter revolver, however I would go with Uberti instead of the Pietta. The lower initial cost of the Pietta is more than lost in the amount of repairs required in the first 2 years, if you shot them a good amount. I have owned several of each of them and my experience with Pietta has less than stellar. Broken springs, going out of time, etc. Regardless of which brand you buy. you should include a good set of aftermarket nipples. I consider that the best upgrade that you can make to an Italian replica cap and ball revolver. The original factory nipples suck.
Agreed
Without a doubt. I bought a Pietta Remington for my first black powder gun. Not pretty in the least and very rough action. When I decided to upgrade to an Uberti it was leaps and bounds better in every way. I only get Uberti now. The Pietta quickly got stowed away as an extra. I'll keep it just in case I have a friend or family member that wants to try black powder shooting. I make it a rule, to try when I can, to have two copies of a gun anyway. One to keep nice and baby it, and one to let friends or family use when they want to. Nothing can mess a gun up faster than friends or family.
Maybe. I very recently purchased a Pietta 44 in brass and have over 500 hundred balls through her. I’m pretty attached to my ‘confed’ 58 Navy in 44 (never really originally manufactured) but I consolidated to all 44s. I load it to the brim and she’s still a shooter.
More than once, I have walked into Bass Pro to look at a Pietta, only to find the actions ranging from ridiculously rough to completely frozen up. Now Uberti actions certainly need polishing right out of the box, but I've never experienced a Uberti out of the box as rough as any Pietta I have handled. Also, if you intend to shoot conicals, you can add the cost of a new plunger, as Pietta plungers don't work with conicals.
opposite experience. All the cap and ball ubertis i ever owned suffered from ignition problems, the Piettas ive had much better luck with.
Many years ago I was a pistol-obsessed teen in Western Australia.
At my local club I shot 22 free pistol, centrefire 25 target and 10m air.
One day someone brought along their cap and ball revolver and generously let me shoot. What a blast! Huge noise, smoke and as much recoil as a 22. So much fun.
@@dennisthemenace3695 its basically just britain with nice weather, equally cucked.
@@israelCommitsGenocideVery different definitions of nice weather
Do you know if the cap and ball revolvers come under a collectors license (in WA) even though they are reproductions?
@@TBL4848Sorry, I don't know about the current laws.
I seem to recall that there were restrictions on shooting black powder; not permitted during bushfire ban season.
I bought a .44 CVA 1860 Colt Army kit for about $60 40 years ago. It’s still going strong and very accurate. My only complaint is the trigger/bolt spring tends to break when fanning, which I learned not to do anymore.
I got a ‘61 navy as a gift around 1980-81
Years later (‘90s ) I bought a new model army Remington & that started me on a collection that now is 40plus guns. I only shoot 2. The
Remington & a ‘51 navy. You really have to try shooting cap & ball revolvers. You won’t regret it
I got into black powder about almost a year ago I've learned so much along the way and still find myself getting very excited when something new comes about and when there's good gun shows with black powder stuff it's always fun to see what people have and check out other people's stuff and compare and just talk about black powder it's really fun
Love the Remington, and the 1851 Navy. My absolute favorite is probably the Colt Walker. It's got such a presence. Nothing grabs attention more. I have had guys just leave their targets at the gun range to walk over to look at the Walker when I bring it out. When that baby goes off, there is nothing sweeter. That's not smoke all around you, it's history!
Colts love ingesting the carcasses of percussion caps and binding the cylinder. Way worse reliability problem than a Remington fouling more quickly.
I bought a repro 44 Remington and had lots of fun with it. I chose that because it has a stronger, more rigid design and easier to sight with (Colts use a notch in the hammer as a sight).
For a 44 Colt Army or 44 Remington model, the max load is about 30 grains (by weight) of fffg or equivalent volume of Pyrex P. Turns out an empty .38 Special shell holds almost exactly 25 grains (a very useful load). When filled and scraped off level with the case mouth, it can be used as a dipper. Using a .357 Mag shell as a dipper (again scraped off level with thecae mouth) will load a little more, about 28 grains. Note there are 7,000 grains in a pound.
To cast bullets, I had both round ball (Lee 454-DC which is the correct diameter--.454 dia--since it is lightly compressed when seated over the powder) and conical (Lee 450-200-1R) molds, both worked well. Range scrap lead worked fine.
In theory, the revolvers cannot be loaded with too much powder since if too much is added, the ball will stick out of the chamber and the cylinder cannot be rotated under the hammer. In theory. My advice is don’t risk a tragedy, a light to “midrange” load is easier on the gun, on you, and on your wallet.
Note that these approach the power, by comparison, of a 45 LC round using black powder (40 gr ffg or fffg black powder with a 250-gr lead bullet), a proven, potent killer. The round ball has killing power all out of proportion to its seemingly anemic calculated energy. It has roughly the energy of a 38 special with a 45-caliber diameter bullet that hits hard.
When the black powder bug hits you there so many ones out there it's hard to choose. I remember them days lol
I've been shooting the same 1851 Navy since 94. Cap and ball revolvers are a lot of fun for little money. You definitely have to break out the stones and work on the action. The factory's don't spend much time smoothing out of machine marks or spend extra attention fitting the action. Plus the time you spend doing it will help you understand how things work.
When you sweeten up a very coarse gun its very satisfying. Love Piettas.
Been shooting black powder for less than a year and it's quite addictive.
Already have pietta 1851 colt, pietta 1858 new model army and a uberti 1858 new model carbine revolver rifle.
How do you like your revolving rifle? I’ve always wanted the 1858 carbine but the reviews I’ve seen have talked about the wonky sights (shooting high and couldn’t adjust the windage). How does it shoot for you?
@@grante.7525 My uncle has one and the sights are dead on. Super fun to shoot! Cant wait to get my own.
I’ve been shooting black powder for over 40 years and I learn something new all the time .
Remington all the way! The top strap make a difference both for strength and for sighting. There are also very few cap jams with a Remington as opposed to the colts.
LeMat all the way since you get 9+1 shots instead of 6…
I think LeMat was even used in a spaghetti western as a ‘trick gun’ to highlight the higher capacity, but I forgot what it was called though...
I like them both but for me, the Colt feels better and is a natural pointer for me.
Your not gonna put enough powder in a remington to make a difference with the top strap
Great selection of really fun guns to shoot. Also very attractive revolvers.
There is a lot of research to do before getting into black powder revolvers, and a lot of equipment. My first black powder revolver was a CVA 1851 Navy in 44 cal that I bought from my uncle, who in turn had previously inherited it from my grandpa. My next was a Pietta 1860 Army, then a Uberti Colt Walker. I stuck to 44 cal as the ammo is easier to find. Though I did find that my Walker is more accurate with .454 balls, where the other two are .451
I just purchased my first cap and ball revolver the other day, an Uberti 1851 Colt Navy London model. Your videos are very entertaining and informative. Thanks for the great content.
Thanks!
As a teen I took my cheap Colt Navy to a firing range. The pistols went Craack, Craack, Craack. Mine just went Boom ! Everybody stopped shooting , came over, and said "What was THAT ?" I let them shoot it and they loved how it shot.
Great recommendation, Dustin. I believe Wild Bill Hickok(?) was a Colt 1851 Navy man. If it was good enough for him it's good enough for any lesser mortal.
My first thought was the 1851 and the 1860 as they're two easy to load, fire and clean guns. They don't weigh or cost a bunch, you can fire reasonable loads that'll give you a good show without breaking your wrist and most importantly, they don't have any of the problems like you see with the Walker and LeMat (as much as I love the LeMat).
Note - the 1851 does come in .44 as that's what I got when I purchased mine back in the 90s.
As for changing the cylinder for rapid reloading, meh - unless you want to purchase a bunch of cylinders (which is expensive) it's better to just make some paper cartridges - plus, black powder shooting is about sitting back, relaxing and enjoying yourself while doing so, not about seeing how many holes you can make in the target.
Only do the Remington 1858 and buy a bunch of cylinders for rapid reloading if you are using it as a carry gun if you are a felon (felons can legally use black powder guns). Also in that case, use pyrodex so it won’t make fouling, since fouling is a big issue with the Remington’s...
I got my first one a few months ago and I started with a Dragoon. I absolutely love it. It’s so much fun.
Next up a Hawkins rifle then a Walker
Brass frame is an option, however I find that steel holds resale value better. For a first time, total new to black powder brass would be ok, if one does not like not out so much. Eh however I will agree that the .36 cal is an excellent tooth cutter
I am new to and so far been lucky with New Old Stock Colt 2nd Generation Black Powder reissues, 1849 Pocket and 1851 Navy…
I bought a Uberti walker from a pawn shop for $200, shot it maybe twice, then sold it. Kicking myself now, cuz I want one again and they cost almost twice as much nowdays.
Found your channel about a year ago and you got me hooked! Now I have a Pietta steel frame .36 caliber 51 Navy (gotta go correct personally), and a Uberti 2nd model dragoon, and I love them both. Black powder is great fun to shoot, and you can shoot all day without actually putting too many rounds down range. I would very much like to add either a 60 Army or 61 Navy in the future, they're beautiful guns.
Love your videos can’t wait for you next one !!! I have an 1858 Remington 44 and an 1860 army 44 love everything about black powder pistols
I plan on getting a pietta 1851 navy engraved deluxe. It may be more pricy but it is very much what i think is fun and stylish. It is also .36 and i love the navies.
Thanks for the information, this video was very helpfull and I think I will go with pietta for my first black powder revolver.
My first black powder revolver was the 1851 brass frame and I enjoyed the sport so much I upgraded to more expensive black powder revolvers
I totally agree with your recommendation that the 1851 is probably the best starting out revolver for new black powder shooters.
Thanks for the video.I will pick LeMat
I have a colt navy in .44 with a brass frame, I think that's a good start.👍
The Remington is a nice choice, but leaves little room for comfortable grip if you have big hands. I chose the Uberti 1860 as I wanted a 44 which was more period correct. They are a blast to shoot, and get a lot of attention at the range.
True, Remington grips are small. Not a good choice for particularly large hands.
Dixie gun works offer a pietta Remington with larger frame and grips, I have one and it works just fine.
@@franciswashack89 I handled a Pietta made Remington and found there was not enough clearance between the trigger guard and grip for me to grip the weapon comfortably. Beyond that I was after a more historically accurate weapon. Uberti does not have a banner visible on the barrel like Pietta.
@@stephanparnow4566 I sanded the inscriptions off my Pietta 1851--polish it smooth as a mirror, then cold blue it--mine looks perfect!
I have a pietta 1860 army and it’a fun but cap jams and cap suction is an issue , so I might buy a Remington new model army because of the different design
I already knew I wanted a .36 Navy Colt, but learning more about Uberti vs. Pietta was super helpful!
While making a video on my first generation Colt Single Action Army. I stumbled across a Hartley and Graham 1882 catalog. And it actually has air guns listed. The second I saw that. it made me think of you.
A most informative video. I bought the Pietta 1851 Navy and hopefully will make it to the range this week to shoot it for the first time.
Everything I know about black powder shooting I learned from Dustin. Simple as that. I own a Pietta 1851 Colt Navy in 36 caliber. Some folks think 36 caliber is underpowered. LOL. Twenty grains of powder in that thing and you can put a hole clean through and out the other side of a green (and empty) propane canister. That is fairly heavy steel, and the 36 Navy is far from underpowered. Trust me on this.
this reminds me of the myths surrounding the M1 carbine not being able to penetrate frozen nazi uniforms, lol
The 1851 navy put a lot of men in the dirt in the 1800's.
As I understand it, Wild Bill Hickok carried two 1851 Navy revolvers in a waistband scarf style holster, and on one occasion killed a man at 70 feet aiming over his arm with one. They are more than deadly enough, and light enough that you don't need a horse to carry them.
Sash, it's a sash.
@@heathgillies6687 Or civil war Minie balls just "bouncing" off uniform jackets at 100 yards. At the same time they can go through like 4 people at once. I guess bullets work off of belief then.
I've been shooting a lot of BP lately too, but form some reason Hodgdon thought it was a good time to shut down the Goex plant.
Lots of memories from long ago with my very first revolver, the 1851 Navy purchased around 1976, it's a wall decoration now because as you said...the brass frame tends to get a little loose after lots of use.
Many gun springs and parts can be acquired from Dixie Gun Works in Tennessee.
We love ❤️ guns of the West in Oz 🍺
My first cap and ball revolver is my pietta 1860 army. Got it on sale at Cabela's a few years ago and I love it! Picked up a Ruger old army a few months ago and now I have a pietta 1851 navy London model on back order. Some day I want to get a stainless Remington new army.
Thanks Dustin for all you Black Powder videos. I used your videos and a few others to help me make
the decision on what BP revolver I was going to buy. I eventually settled on the Brass Frame
Pietta 1858 New Army revolver which is now selling at Cabelas for $249.99.
I have not gone to shoot it in a while because I can not find anyone selling percussion caps locally and i do not want to pay a huge hazmat fee to ship them. I did buy one of those gizmos to make my own caps and use Prime all to fill them.
I'm keeping all that set aside in case I need it for the Zombie Apocalypse. That's where they find the third inoculation turns some people into the walking dead.
My first handgun of any kind 20 years ago was a Pietta 1851 navy 36 caliber. It was a Christmas present from my father that year as I had just read a Texas history book call “Jeff Davis‘ Own” about the 2nd United States cavalry and Texas Rangers on the Texas frontier in the 1850s. This gun was pictured and mentioned prominently as a weapon of choice in that book.
My gun has seen a lot of use and abuse over the years. After 20 years I think the time has come to have it refurbished and “blacksmith converted” (gated feeding port while leaving ball loading lever for realism, budget and to retain original look) to fire 38 Long colt by a professional.
Even to this day with all the other guns that are in my collection I still enjoy loading it up and shooting
I started with a pair of 1860 army. I loved the silhouette of the gun. Haven't bothered to shoot anything else
good video, my favorite is the 1851 navy/great looking +in 36 cal. very comfortable to shoot. Thanks for the video. Great content as usual.
Ramble on all you want, I'm listening. My question is How do I choose my NEXT Black Powder Revolver? Lol. The only one I dont have is the Dragoon and the 1851 Navy in Black Powder, I do have it as a cartridge conversion though. The next BP firearm I'm setting my sights on, is an 1861 Springfield! Great information Dustin!
Choosing the NEXT one is always tough too. LOL!
My First Black powder revolver was a LeMatt ...bit learning curve and way different from my fathers 1860 Colt made by Pietta haha Still love it!
Always wanted a LeMat.
Great info. Thank you!
I did go Remington new army for the cylinder swap you suggest however not for hot swapping necessarily but I believe it to be one of the first examples of rapid reload capability which lead to the invention of the auto loading sidearm. Maybe I just tell myself this but I am excited for this new journey.
Very helpful to me in choosing my first. You addressed all my questions. Thank you.
Thanks to channels like this one, I was able to figure out what I wanted as a newbie BP shooter. I went for the Remington Navy by Uberti first. I replaced the nipples with slixshot nipples, and it worked right out of the box. Now my second gun, an 1851 Colt Navy by Pietta, was much more finicky. I, again, replaced the nipples, but it just wouldn't work as smooth as the Remington.
So, I'd say, for a new shooter, go for the caliber you want and stick to that caliber for a while. It saves a bit on money, and you won't have to carry different balls and charges.
Again, thanks to Guns of the West I'll be making paper cartridges for the next round of shooting... Keep these videos coming!
Love Slixshots. A bit spendy, but worth it.
I confirm that Pietta's revolvers are much more reliable than Uberti's. In order to improve raliability of my Uberti's Remington NMA i have replaced main spring (hammer spring) with Pietta one, which is much thicker than original. It cures almost all of failrue to fire issues, it's now much better than with original spring.
Remington requires cylinder pin to be lubricated - layer of lubricant/grease will prevent fauling from getting between pin and cylinder and for the same reason it's also required to grease on top of cylinder chambers on each shot - grease will accumulate fauling.
Thank you for the video. While I've been into western gun's for awhile I've only gotten into black powder in the last few month's. I love all of those revolver's, but what really got me hooked was the Diablo and Desperado from American Gun Craft. My hand's are full of arthritis and pouring in and measuring powder is difficult and messy for me. But then I found out about the different black powder pellets and it's a lot easier. Also traditions has a rifle called the Nitrofire, they built it for federal and they made 2 black powder cartridge's which are preloaded with black powder. It's easy and fun for this old fart. I'm looking forward to expanding my black powder firearm's. Sincerely Ruger Rich
I've been a bit of research on the terrible cap jams I've been having with my Pietta .44 1851 Navy, will be making a video soon I hope. Also, everyone says the Remington style is "stronger" due to the "top strap"... but the more I think about it, the weakness is the cylinder itself, and if the Remington has a smaller arbor, that cylinder is going to shoot itself loose long before any issue involving the "top strap" would come into play. In other words, I don't think the Colt design is inherently "weaker" than the Remington.
I completely agree. Thanks for watching!
For modern sport shooting you might be correct, but the Remington NMA was very popular with soldiers of the Civil War because of its design featuring that "top strap". The Remington-Beals, Remington Army, and Remington NMA were less prone to frame stretching from repeated and heavy usage than the Colt was. That and the cylinder switch for rapid reloading was easier to manage than doing the same with a Colt pistol of the era, although the Army did not provide spare cylinders. The design feature of the half-stop safety was copied by Colt on their pistols after Remington implemented it first in 1863. The more rugged top strap design of the NMA was also influential on Colt's design for the cartridge loading Single Action Army, better known as the Colt Peacemaker. The only thing that might be considered a flaw of the design is the fact that the barrel and frame are one piece making it more difficult to clean the barrel.
@@blacksheep_edge1412 Thank you for your response, and I understand what you're saying. However, I don't see how there is less damage to the frame between one design and the other. It's been a while since I took physics, but we have to remember that each action has an equal and opposite reaction-- exactly opposite. So, the cylinder is striking (and digging into) the rear of the frame with the exact same force as the bullet has as it's leaving the chamber. Whether there is a top strap or not, that damage and "gouging" to the rear of the frame from the cylinder will be the same. And therefore, the space between the cylinder and the forcing cone will inevitably increase with each shot, on both designs-- because with each shot, the cylinder will be able to move further and further back into the frame. I don't think the damage is to the front part of the frame, I think the "stretching" happens at the weakest link-- that cylinder which is able to move freely from forward to back, striking the back of the frame. Also, keep in mind that there is no such thing as an object being EXACTLY straight, so if the arbor is at any angle at all, no matter how small, that cylinder is going to exert an impact on the arbor as well, and the thinner it is, the more likely it is to bend.
I have heard several times the assertion that the Remington design was popular with Civil War soldiers due to the top strap. Being a serious Civil War student and geek myself, I am very curious about this-- do you have or know of any accounts, statement, letters, descriptions, journals etc from the time period, in which a soldiers say they prefer the Remington design? Rest assured my intention is not to argue with you, I would simply be very curious to read such accounts. I am currently studying and writing up a small-scale cavalry battle that took place near me, in which pistols played a pivotal role. And for that am reading a couple of journals/memoirs of cavalry commanders who operated here.
@@historyandhorseplaying7374 Also the problem is more with brass framed Colts than steel framed Colts. Brass has less tensile strength than steel does so brass frames are more prone to the stretching problems seen in open topped Colt pistols.
The 2nd Model Dragoon by Uberti was my first choice, and it doesn't disappoint! I was used to shooting modern pistols, so recoil was not an issue. After trying out a Walker Colt, I still wanted the power of a hand cannon for my first old West revolver. The Dragoon has almost all the power of the Walker, but the balance is FAR better. It just FEELS comfortable even though it weights 4 lbs., and compared to any modern pistol using smokeless powder, the .44 cal. Dragoon using black powder is soft in recoil and just plain fun. I felt it was worth the $350.00, which is more expensive than others.
Awesome advice. Got a Remington new army last Christmas. Can't find primers. Can't wait to shot it. Thx Justin.
My first black powder handgun is an Ethan Allen .36 pepper box I bought in kit form from Kmart back in the mid 80s. My second is the Remington .44 new army which I really like and bought this late 80s. My third is a colt 58 replica in steel frame .36 caliber I bought late 90s. I still have all 3 guns. The pepper box is fun to shoot but I couldn’t hit the side of a barn with it. The others are very accurate and fun to shoot as well. I also have a 50 caliber Thompson Center Hawken I built from a kit. My mom got it for me one Christmas in the early 80s. This was my first black powder gun. I also have a double 12 gauge Italian muzzleloader that is a blast to shoot.
my guess would be that people like the Remington because it more closely resembles what we're used to seeing in Modern Revolvers. That's what draws my attention to it.
I'm going for the remington 1858 because you can swap the cylender without taking appart the gun.
my .02 cents owning a few of these, the Remington new army with its small arbor actually functions better when heavily fouled because there is less surface area binding the cylinder movement. This is assuming youre using only one cylinder and just reloading like normal, not swapping them out. just personal experience but i still prefer the colt navy.
My first handgun? Ruger Old Army. 40 years ago. Stainless of course. One off aluminum and brass shoulder stock. And a cartridge conversion cylinder I've yet to try out.
I think I'm gonna go with the Navy one, I like the octagonal barrel and the lower caliber seems like a good start to shooting guns.
It’s pretty hard to go wrong with that one. Thanks for watching!
I got my first one a Pietta 1861 Navy. By the end of the month I had 2 fluted 1860 Army's, and a 1849 Pocket all Uberti's
When I decided to get into black powder... I jumped in head first. I bought , in about three months, a "new Army" .36 cal. A model 1851 Navy .36 cal. Then a 1860 .44 cal. The extra layer is a T.C. Patriot .45 cal. and an Ardesa. That one looks sort of like the Patriot and is through Traditions firearms. Head first into the deep end. And... along with the pistols there is a T. C. Hawken. Smoke and thunder!
I wish I had this video when I bought my first cb this year back in march
40 years ago I had a Ruger Old Army and I want one again.
In terms of cleaning, I found out 17 years and a lot of removed bluinh and bore pitting too late that hot water and Ballistol are your friends
I do agree, the gunshop borescrub is very expensive here( I reside in South Africa). I use hot water and dishwashing liquid. Since well with very hot water and there you go. Afterwards a quick spray with WD40 and a brush, barrel pull through with a 2x4 patch and good for next time.
Thanks!
We are interested in shooting black powder, and are even thinking of getting a muzzloading coach gun.
Thanks for the research, it has sure helped us!
Thank you so much for your time and the video. I'm 23 years old & a college student, and I'm growing interested in the hobby of black powder shooting.
first got a 51 Navy in 44
then a 47 Walker half-price
at a pawn shop then sold the Navy
and got a better one in 36 for half price
and now have a 60 Army on layaway
also for over a benji less than
the usual store price
so I have 3x more than I ever intended
but theyre cool and the deals were
rather irresistible
I just bought a pietta .36 cal Colt Navy. Had it for a couple of days, shot it, leading to find out that the bolt spring (i think thats what its called) *or the metal bolt that locks the cylinder in place* broke into 2 pieces. Instantly shipped it back, and waiting for a new Colt Navy to show up at my door. I really enjoyed shooting it and recommend buying the pietta .36 cal Colt Navy as a first Black Powder Revolver.
Just get the part
You'll break plenty of them
More if you just sit around cocking it, they work harden and break
You also can replace with a wire type but I never like the feel of those
@@99dsm1 yeah you're right, i thought about a wire type but i enjoy the power of the regular bolt
I was able to pick up a used pietta 1851 navy for I think $150 on gunbroker! Was a little rusted internally and some parts were worn and the action was messed up, but pietta sells a $35 parts kit and I did a few other mods like polishing the hammer face, deburring the cylinder stops, modifying the size of the bolt, and she works smooth now!
Kept original cylinder hand tho because I would have needed to do some fine tuning on the new one.
I went with the Remington 1858 Army. It was simply because I wanted the top strap above the cylinder for strength. It also had the side benefit of being easy to remove the cylinder and put in a conversion cylinder to shoot modern bullets.
Me n my shooting buddy are starting to shoot black powder is becsuse we have a very hard time finding primers and powder for our modern rifles. But we're going to be buying the Pieta 1858 Rem Army. Great videos bud, thanks for the great info.
My first black powder revolver was Uberti 1st Model Dragoon that "spoke to me" in a gun shop. Then a couple of 1860 Army clones including a stainless one. But the one that I have kept through thick and thin was an old Navy Arms made by Pietta Remington Army. I got it used and abused in the early 1980s and have used it for my black powder revolver doings ever since.
Great site. Agree with your comments. I've had no supply problems from Cabelas. Take care handling the powder.
I have been wanting to get a .36 caliber black powder revolver for trapping
Very informative. Thank you very much!
Just got the real 2nd generation black box Colt walker, built by Colt. Love it.
how about a 1861 cimarron navy civillian?
This is the video that started it all for me. Just rewatching it and it has stood the teat of time.
Great video! I just got my first and I’m an idiot but a lucky one. Got piettas new army, the one on the right. Had no idea about the cylinder swap I just prefer a topstrap so yeah. Great video!
Great comparison video, thanks!
As someone who went completely in reverse with what you should start with...
*really wished I looked around before hand*
Mine was a .36 Navy Colt. Got a .44 after that just for the sake of having a .44.
Want to get a Remington soon.
Getting ready for this. Thanks brother.
Thank you so much, this was a very interesting piece and so well done. Maybe on occasion a bit of historical interest thrown in......something from the past....a war story, a law enforcement story, a fast bit thrown in having to do with a particular firearm you happen to be showing and describing for us. It would bring the past to life, and make us feel like the ownership of such a weapon would somehow, in it's own way, connect us with the past. Thanks again......good stuff.
Good list. My first was the 1851 Navy in .36 cal. by Uberti.
I wouldn't worry about the recoil of a .44 vs .36 - yes there is a visible difference when shooting something like a 1860 Army with 24 grain loads, vs a 1862 Police with 15 grains of powder, but black powder recoil is really mild - until you get to something like a p53 Enfield with a full military load of 60 grains, and a 500 grain bullet, shooting revolvers is a breeze.
For me, the deciding factor was the iconic status of the 1851 Navy - associated with such figures as Wild Bill Hickock, Robert E. Lee, Ulysses S. Grant, William T. Sherman, and the beautiful octagonal barrel just narrowly won it for the 1851 for me, though the 1860 army has no less of a prdigree, being the much improved version, shooting a .44 cal. bullet with a heavier load, while not increasing the size, and weight of the revolver (except an extra 1/2 inch barrel, and a slightly bigger grip for hands wearing gloves).
Though if I had to pick the pinnacle of Colt's percussion revolvers, I'd go with the 1862 police - a pocket-sized frame in .36 caliber, though a bit less powerful than the 1851 (despite being the same caliber, the pocket version holds less powder, and has a shorter barrel), but that much more comfortable to carry. But the pocket models are an acquired taste - I love my "little guys" - baby dragoon in .31, and police in .36, but for your first gun, you probably want something full-sized.
Many people choose the Remington, because it has a better system for carrying 6 loaded, closed frame, and the cylinder comes out without disassembling the gun, but as mentioned - Colts are more resistant to fouling, and I'm just a fan of Colts.
A friend of mine has a Remington .44 repro for a carry gun, with a couple of spare cylinders. He's never had any problem swapping cylinders.
Talk about a sweet BP wheelgun collection.
Thanks!
I have a Remington New Army 44. It has been passed down through my family for years. I got mine when I was around 14 years old, that was back in 1975. I love the gun, but mostly keep put up these days. I have few other Black powder weapons I use.
My first black powder revolver was the 1851 navy by uberti
I got I to blackpowder last year with a 1851 navy in .36 from euroarms. And a pietta 1860 army in .44 both brass framed guns. They are fun to shoot, I boil the whole barrel and cylinder in water and dawn dish soap. And then dry them off in the oven at 140 or so after scrubbing the bore. Easiest way to clean them when they are really dirty. Then coat them with oil when dry to prevent rust.
All my black powder revolvers so far have been Colt, but I do want to buy a Remington next. I used to be able to go to Cabela's and buy them over the counter and bring them home, no questions asked. And buy them online and have them shipped to my house. But after Sandy Hook, both became illegal. Even for black powder guns. It has to go through a licensed dealer and a background check.
Loving your vids. I'm almost convinced on a .36. Your logic is so straightforward... but then for my first smokeless revolver I really want a .500. Never been accused of being bright.
I'm an 1860 Army man I have three. I do own a walker a1862 police pocket a 1858 Remington and an 1861 Navy. I'm looking for a 1851 if I could find one in stock. Mine are all uberti all because of the markings on the barrel and the Pietta tail on the Navy.
I did locate and purchase a uberti 1851 Navy. I had a hard time finding one but they're are producing in Italy again.
I have both the Colt New Army 1860 and the Remington New Army 1858. The Remington is easier to load the caps. I find it more difficult to place the caps on the Colt. Also I have more issues with the caps either falling off or discharged caps hanging up between the cylinder and the hammer area on the Colt. I can also load the cylinders on the Remington with a loader separate from the gun itself and exchange cylinders without disassembling the gun. I usually carry 2 extra cylinders. For safety sake, however, I do not place the caps on the cylinders until the cylinder is in place on the gun. I do enjoy your videos.
Have you tried different size caps? I use #10 on my Remington and #11 on my Colt. Both are Pietta.
@@bill7778, the problem that I have is that there is less room for my large fingers to fit the caps on with the Colt. I also have less room to place the powder pellets in place as well as the balls.
Both are Pietta
Excellent point about reloading off the gun. I do that too. Gives me a chance to slick up the cylinder pin with a little grease too. I shoot a hundred plus rounds a session like that all the time.
My very first one was a 36 caliber 1858 Remington and that was back in 97. I will say in recent years overtime I have collected and their most of them are the Remington but I've gotten 44 and also a stainless. Have been thinking about buying some 31 calibers. Also have a double barrel 12 gauge, a 44 caliber Hawkins and also a 50 caliber Hawkins rifle and a 44 caliber revolving rifle
Gonna be a Remington for me when I can afford it, I just think they look better :D Sometimes you gotta satisfy the rule of cool.
Nothing wrong with that! Thanks for watching!
I just got a pietta 1858 and I have zero regrets, definitely a good choice
Cap jams will be an unknown thing to you. This was my main reason to pick a Remington New Model Army.
@@corneliussulla9963 what about the fouling of the pin? Is it not as bad as people make it out to be? To my knowledge you can replace nipples on the 1851 and have no cap jams whereas I dont know what you would do to keep the pin of an 1858 clean. How does it shoot for you?(still trying to make my decision might just get them both).
@@grante.7525 After 5-6 cylinders I rather have problems with a worsening acuracy than with a gummed up cylinder pin. The fouling in the barrel opens up your group a lot after 30-40 shots. And therefore I have to give the barrel a quick cleaning with a bore snake. And when Im already at it, I clean the cylinder axis too, with the rough side of a kitchen sponge and Ballistol. And it depends on the powder that you use. Swiss powder doesnt make such a mess as cheap powders do.
Im using Czech powder becaue this is the only one I was able to buy. Its neither the best, nor the worst. Medium, I would say.
So, the mechanism inside the Revolver wont gum up. And a quick cleaning of axis and barrel takes less than a minute. The loading of one cylinder takes longer. And another good thing about the Remington is that you can buy several cylinders and change them within seconds. You cant do that with a Colt.
I started shooting black powder in early 2021 and really enjoy it. I have two, one steel and one brass, Pietta 1851 Navy Colt in .36 Caliber. I would like to upgrade to Uberti revolvers and maybe a 44 Cal 1860 Colt Army style.
I got in to black powder about 2 years ago, I was out and about pawn shop, shopping and they had this pieta Remington new Army 44 brass frame in the case all polished up. I seen it and said ooh pretty, what's the paper work like on something like this. That's when they told me it was an antique collectible and no paperwork at all. So I asked what is the going price with everything that comes with it?
One of the tricks to buying a gun in the pawn shop ask what all comes with it, you might get lucky and get a holster.
They said $240. I said sold to the old guy with the white beard, okay do you take Visa?
It came with a pound of powder, nipple Grease, a tin of number 10 caps, patches, a powder measure. Ran around for a day trying to find balls, nipple wrench etc,etc. Three different places, nothing in the way of what I needed. But had black powder stuff, just not what I needed or in my caliber.
Then I remembered the black powder place on the river that I have probably drove by 3 million times in my life time. Muzzleloader supplies. And they had everything I wanted and probably a few things I shouldn't have bought, got a holster, all my nipple needs, a bag to put everything in, two boxes of .454 balls. Another pound of powder, three tins of caps. Cleaning brushes, two extra cylinders and pouches to carry them in.
I have just been having the time of my life with this old percussion revolver. And I call it old because it was produced in 1989.
It's even saved my life from meth heads who thought they were going to rob me. For some reason the sight of it makes people awfully agreeable, drawing back the hammer gets their full undivided attention. Pull a knife on me? But my favorite one was the meth dealer on the bicycle that I chased off my property because he was doing meth deals at the end of my driveway because it's secluded. And he had the audacity to pull out a small caliber semi-automatic can't be sure but I think it was a 25 caliber Colt and at about 100 ft away dumped the magazine at me, holding it sideways. Don't know where those rounds went but none of them came close. So I unholstered the Remington, as I am drawing back to hammer telling him okay my turn now. And put one into the ground at his feet. Never seen someone run so fast in my life, he left his bicycle. Haven't seen or heard from him since. Since it was getting to be dusk I think it was the big flame out the barrel with all the smoke that scared him more than anything.