Ep:180 Secret Combinations: Is a Secret Group of LDS Apologists Influencing LDS Missionaries?
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- On this episode of Mormonish Podcast, Rebecca and Landon are joined by favorite returning guest Radio Free Mormon as we delve into the secret world of apologetics and currently serving LDS missionaries.
Everyone knows that missionaries have questions. Whether it's something posed by a companion, an investigator that brings up an uncomfortable issue with the church, or even a question that the missionary is wrestling with himself, it's going to happen.
And when it does, who does a missionary turn to?
An underground group of LDS apologists has the answers missionaries are looking for and they're even willing to meet with investigators to answer questions.
What do mission presidents and the LDS church's missionary department think of this? We're not sure. The group works hard to stay out of site and off the radar.
We know you'll be as fascinated as we were to uncover all the details.
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#mormonish #lds #mormon #exmormon #postmormon #religion #news, #ldschurch #comeuntochrist #churchofjesuschrist #churchofjesuschristoflatterdaysaints #byu #byui #josephsmith #comefollowme #polygamy #bookofmormon #becauseofhim #hearhim #ldstemple
I remember this group, I just got back from my mission a month ago. Left early because I learned the truth. My family refuses to let me come home, but the truth will set you free!
Bless you, child. May you find your way forward, with or without your family.
Your integrity is honourable
Blessings on your journey.🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
We are so sorry to hear this. Wondering how you encountered the group? Please email us at mormonishpodcast@gmail.com we’d love to hear your story.
Sorry that happened to you dude. It hurts. Especially when you are young. I got out in my 40s and felt really robbed of years. Family including most of my kids pretty much did the same thing. You have a whole family out there that is exmo. Reach out.
I am a Scottish Presbyterian and fell upon your UA-cam channel and you have taught me so much over the weeks. You have woken me to all the wee bits and bobs of the LDS. Cheers from a very sunny UK. Have a wee dram
I was a convert of about a year when I went on my mission. When I was a Zone leader, I remember my ZL companion was the most arrogant person you could meet, it left such a bad taste when he taught, so smug because he knew the scriptures inside out and could bash with the best. He was even with all his knowledge the most ineffective teacher because people could no warm up to him because he was so smug. Well he got what he wanted promoted to be the AP, he later become a Stake President, so he fitted well into the church. Oh I served in the mid 80's. Just makes me realise how many Muppets get into leadership positions.
This reminds me of an incident - back around 2018-2019 I saw some posts on Facebook by a non-member Facebook friend, a Native American who is very much atheist living in Northern California. So the first post was about the missionaries driving recklessly around Eureka Ca on more than one occasion. Then she posted another incident how the missionaries had entered her house without permission while she was in a back room and they were talking to her young children and then yet another post describing how snide and sarcastic the missionaries would be to her at her front door. She said that she had tried to contact the local bishop with no reply and I gave her the phone number to the mission office. She called and then told me that she spoke to the mission president who was being really dismissive of her and what was going on. I thought it was a bit odd. I had called my own local mission office and found them to be receptive. So I called on her behalf. OMFG. I was speaking to the mission president, telling him what she was posting and his reply over and over is "you cant tell that!!!! That's hearsay!!!" I was quite surprised how little he wanted to hear about how the missionaries under him were behaving. I found out that yes, he was an attorney from Utah. *sigh* and he didnt believe me that I was a member. He told me to pass along his cell phone number to my Facebook friend but he really DGAF. I spoke to my friend again who had then contacted the mission president again. So she tells me that he told her to stop getting her friends to call him and lie about being a member. So I texted his sorry arrogant @$$ my temple recommend..... That is what it took. The missionaries finally came to her house and offered a non-apology apology. OMG.
Yes the tone of the church as a whole has certainly changed.
Is it possible to be shocked and not surprised at the same time?
As someone with a PhD, my absolute disdain for people who call themselves “trained” scholars is raging right now. People dont have to be graduates of a phd or some grad program to be academically or scholarly minded and work in academic spaces. In fact, we should democratize the knowledge and be more welcoming of non-traditional scholars in research fields. But these mormon “trained” scholars are a disgrace and an insult to actual scholarly work and make the church look horrible (as if it needs help). To call yourself “trained” just because you read FARMS/FAIR, worship hugh nibley and bruce mcconkie, and devour anything the maxwell institute published is not accurate. 1:18:58
Could not agree more. I consider myself very informed as I lost my faith reading FAIRMORMON fifteen years ago and have been gobbling up this type of content from both sides ever since. But there is no way on earth I would ever represent myself as a "scholar" about anything.
On a related note, I also refuse to call any Mormon apologists scholars. To be a scholar or scientist or considered an expert in any discipline requires complete honesty in one's approach to their profession. Thus, the likes of Gee, Muhlestein and that ilk are frauds, not scholars. Whether they admit their bias (like Muhlestein) or not, true scholarly work requires complete objectivity and a desire for, and respect for, actual truth. Biases and agendas are for liars and swindlers and have no place in true scholarship.
@@Fatfinger4378 yeah, when i learned that Muhlestein starts with the assumption that the church is true and works backwards to fit any evidence into that paradigm, i knew that no Mormon “scholar” along those lines is to be respected as an academic. They might be very smart, intelligent people, but when you begin with your conclusion set in stone you cannot operate with academic integrity.
Couldn’t agree more! The way these “scholars” approach every question is with one result in mind…make the church look good no matter what! That is not only not a scholar it isn’t even scholarly! You don’t have to have a PhD or even a high school diploma to examine a claim using scholarly methods but that requires you to have an open mind and a willingness to accept the results regardless of your position.
Crazy how someone being a scholar in your minds all hinges on whether they end up agreeing with you,hence putting the term in quotations and being snippy and dismissive of everything they say on principle. As if scholarship is 100% free of bias.
@@LatterDayPup being a scholar has nothing to do with agreeing with anyone and all about can you show that you can back your thesis with detailed, precise analysis of the topic. You work off of a thesis statement that shows what you analyze, how you analyze it, and the conclusion achieved by said analysis. I can happily support and work with scholarship that i dont agree with if it can be backed by logic, reasoning, and a thorough investigation of primary sources. What i cant support is someone like Muhlestein who starts by stating what their inevitable conclusion will be regardless of where the analysis takes them or those who have only read and studied that which presupposes their conclusion as a given and moved on from there. That isnt an exercise in academic, scholarly work, its a scripture mastery race.
I had a teacher in the MTC in 1985 who had this same megalomaniacal attitude toward defending the Church because the Church wasn't doing it well enough. He ended up being excommunicated for charging the pulpit during General Conference to read his 95 theses. I can only imagine that he's a Thom Harrison/Daybell wacko now...
Is this true? What year was this? What z mind picture you have painted.😮😮😮😮😅😅😅😅❤❤ok gone. Thanx
Haha, my MTC teacher founded the Joseph Smith Foundation which is convinced Pres Nelson has been corrupted by progressive historians into teaching the stone in a hat narrative. They won't openly call Nelson out, but they're not retracting their book that explains the stone in a hat is a total antimormon lie.
I remember that but don’t remember the year.
I made a couple of comments on Ward Radio's latest video saying that Cardon would be an amazing member of the Cavalry, and they erased both. They must want to steer clear of it.
All of those guys have always been very censorious, not surprising!
Looks like they already deleted the video "Discussion with Ray and his Pastor, Joshua". Sunlight is such a good disinfectant.
I saw the video. It’s not down.
@@Mark_McC It was re-uploaded just 3 hours ago.
Looks like they edited out the part where you can see the missionaries.
The purpose of a mission is to help the missionary feel that they are persecuted by the ‘world’ and this approach gives them so many opportunities to experience that rejection and conflict. It makes sense that the church is taking this tactic when you really think about what they want to achieve - kids who are going to double down on the religion and stop asking questions…
It’s hideous, toxic, morally bankrupt, and immoral
Absolutely this! Thanks for your insight!
@Rebecca and @Landon, thank you SO much for taking this one on. This has been needing exposure for years now. Frankly, I was the opinion that no one in the Ex-Mormon community knew about this issue, and/or if they did, they just didn't care.
All that to say God bless you both!
Just finished watching this. It was absolutely fantastic.
Thank you!
Thank you!
Thank you!
How big of a problem is it? Or is it a “problem “? I’d never heard of it before 🤷♀️
@China-Clay well, you'd never heard of it before because they fly underneath the radar - or try to.
And they explain the problems and scope of the problems in this show. It's interesting. I learned some new things myself.
@China-Clay splinter groups who think they know better than the rank and file leadership of the Church have been a reoccurring issue since the beginning of the Mormon movement.
Sometimes these groups fall apart of their own accord, sometimes a General Authority is called in to clean house and the group's members are called to repentance and/or excommunicated, or sometimes the groups breaks away completely and forms yet another mormon splinter group.
In my own mission there was a group of Elders called, I kid you not, The Lost Boys. It was made up of former and current Assistants to the President, Zone Leaders, and other Elders who were all of the Mission President's favorites. It was essentially a good old boys club. They didn't teach any weird doctrine or anything but they did have their physical signs and tokens, which they played off as simply insiders' jokes but were eerily similar to certain things learned in the temple.
I found out later that a 70 had come in before I got there and tried to send a bunch of Elders home but the Mission President had gone to bat for them so nothing happened. How do I know about this? Because my trainer was a Lost Boy and I was given a Lost Boy name of my own. At the time I was just happy to be accepted by the in crowd but it didn't take long to realize how weird the who thing was.
@@squeakhawk01 good to see this coming out into the sunshine
I served in 84-85 (18 monthers rule!) and in the MTC, Thomas Monson told us we shouldn't Bible Bash. He said we couldn't have the spirit if we did. I took that fairly seriously and tried really hard not to do it. Still, I did fail at that a couple of times and bashed away. It was never a good experience and I always regretted doing it.
I went and watched the videos on “Missionary Discussions” and was completely floored by the arrogance and evil contention that these “Experts” have for other people. Never have I seen something represented as belonging to LDS religion, such a dark and evilness about them. Nothing about this group is Christlike whatsoever. I agree with RFM in that these guys make Kwaku, Brad, and Cardon seem amazing in contrast to the people who are behind Missionary Discussions. Pure evil they are.
Why would ANY invesigator want to be in this church? I am appalled by this clip ! Seriously, this is a great way to push people against the church
because that's not the best representation of the church ?
Are you kidding me? The tone and communication is disheartening and will never convert a soul. Calvary? Seriously, they will ruin the LDS missionary work and reputation..cannot wait to see how this works out. Thank you, I enjoy every one of your videos.
Apparently it's working pretty well if they have those kinds of numbers for membership.
Cavalry not Calvary. This is abuse of workhorses, not bearing crosses in a Christlike manner.
The tone was very much misconstrued. The people who run the group are sarcastic and sometime fiery but are very respectful when talking to someone. This video is a bad misrepresentation of that, and didn’t show more than a 1 min clip of a UA-cam video. The videos are an hour or two long.
@@darksteps7328 Then maybe you shouldn't have deleted it after the show ran . . .
@@darksteps7328 The things that happened in that 1 min clip should never, ever happen in a discussion with an investigator.
So, I took the missionary discussions recently to give the church a fair shake and actually read the Book of Mormon. As a lawyer, I didn’t hold back any of my pointed questions, criticisms, and reservations regarding the church, its history or the bases for its truth claims. I didn’t get any hint that the missionaries utilized such a group to answer my copious objections and observations. However, the missionaries often brought senior members of the ward along to help answer my concerns. Of course, they could not because there is absolutely no evidence to support the church’s truth claims. But, I was cordial and civil in my discussions. So were the missionaries and their cohorts.
Admire your methodical approach. Am xlds but still miss the community. There r nice folks in the church. The history made me chew my hair.🎉🎉🎉
@@marquitaarmstrong399 I was certainly very disappointed in the constant nudge towards subjective experiences and prayer to obtain a testimony. In my view, the proper epidemiological approach is to set out to disprove an idea. If it cannot be reasonably disproven or falsified, then it’s worthy of considering on the basis of plausibility and probability. My retort to the Moroni test is simply that no amount or intensity of warm fuzzies regarding Joseph Smith’s status as a CB prophet or the exclusive priesthood authority allegedly bestowed upon the church will make the Book of Mormon historical. If it is not historical, then Joseph Smith was not telling the truth. Moreover, no one has sufficiently explained how both the Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price can both be true when their respective theologies are at odds with one another. Hence, because Joseph Smith contradicts himself at various points in his life, the real question isn’t whether Joseph Smith was a prophet, it is rather, if he was a prophet, at what point in his life was he hearing from God (if any), and when did he go off the rails?
Would you be willing to hop on a call sometime? I’m curious to what truth claims you were wanting to know, and maybe we can talk about the epistemological approach that we as LDS take.
I experienced similar things. I pretty early on had lessons with the bishop present, and once had a zoom call with the mission president and his side kick.
@@darksteps7328 I’m always game to have a conversation.
Travis Anderson is the one running Missionary Discussions UA-cam channel. No need to hide or protect his name. And his "scholar" friend is Robert Boylan.
@@chriscb agreed. I'm with RFM on the redaction decision.
I'm leaving the church because of this ! It's the final straw that has pushed me out
@@rosemariebennett7213 I don't blame you. Why would anyone want to be in a church that produces "scholars" like this?
If The Cavalry represents the fruit of Mormonism it speaks for itself, IMO.
@@fwanson Travis Anderson does not claim to be a scholar, if you’ve watched any of those discussions that are public he’s straightforward that he’s just a regular member. Robert Boylan is actually academically trained in biblical languages and has published several works.
@@BenOakbottom where did I say that Travis Anderson is a scholar? THAT is what they claim to be on the Group Description of The Cavalry, isn't it? So he doesn't want the label when why are they using it in their Group Description.
As for Mr. Boylan his "scholarship" speaks for itself. There's a difference between polemics and and scholarship.
Apparently, he missed that point in his Catholic Seminary courses, didn't he?
The whole website screams CHURCH RUNNING SCARED!!!!!!!
Whenever Landon starts a sentence with "evidently..." It's about to get good! 😂
Thank you for bringing this to the light.
Keep up the good work Calvary. You are pushing more people away from accepting mormonism than any ex-mo group out there.
And pushing those ,like me, who have my doubts about doctrine and how the church is now, out !
@@rosemariebennett7213 I left in 1990 as basically atheist. I read too much...and this was before internet. I have been a Jesus follower since 2006. Best wishes in your spiritual journey.💕
Welcome to the real world. It's much better out here. :)
@karenl7791 well said!
Travis T. Anderson and Ryan Boylan, your OF account has a leak.
Yes! RFM! I agree-please release the names! Thank you all, once again for your time, research and sharing of this information!
"The Calvary" is a secret combination. how ironic of them to choose to operate more like the evil men of the Book of Mormon more than anyone else.
I’m pretty sure that “The Cavalry” is actually a facebook group. I could be wrong though.
RFM stated that he is upset that this group is abusing and taking advantage of the missionaries…I agree, however, so is the church and so these young missionaries are abused twice😢
I think it's absolutely hilarious these "skolars" are using some of my old materials from my FAIR days. If they think that is going to help them more power to them. None of the information they use of mine is valid or even accurate, but they have nothing else to go by. Good expose you guys. I am more than sure it is my old Egyptology materials on the facsimiles they are using. If so, they are going to be trounced time and again, even by my new self now. LOL! That D. Lawrence Barksdale is one of the other guys I founded FAIR with so it's interesting to see what he is up to today. No surprise he is involved in something so shady and illegitimate.
Good hearing from you BYP! You apologetic body of work lives on!!! Not sure they tell them you disavow that now.
That's LOL
Side note: Mormonism is soo tiny that generative AI doesn't even get missionaries and their name tags right. The pictures show no or two name tags, never with the right size or proportions.
Great point! Haha
That can't be right. The church is always exponentially expanding. 😅
@@dorimosher9800 Maybe it is "exponentially expanding", but with a factor smaller than 1.0. 🤭
@@dorimosher9800 Just like the number of gods.
Unsurprisingly, Cavalry's UA-cam channel started showing up in my recommendations feed after watching this video.
@Rebecca Bibliotheca, @Landon Brophy, and @RFM, several of us have now been flagged attacked on Facebook and had content removed there after cross promotion posting about this episode.
The fruit of The Cavalry manifests itself yet again - it's rotten and they don't seem to care.
And thank you again for exposing it to the light, it needed to be done.
Sorry you had to go through it. Very frustrating!
@mormonishpodcast1036 it's OK.
We're used to being targeted, abused, and maligned by The Calvary crew.
It's what they do in the name of Mormonism - and The Lord.
And, like the rest of their bad behavior, it speaks for itself, doesn't it?
I really feel bad that poor Rebecca had to suffer the kind of abuse from these guys that we have had to tolerate for years now.
And the world needs to know what these modern Danites (they're actually proud of that label, BTW) do to those who dare to expose their darkness to light.
Sad, isn't it?
@@fwansonso it’s the admins of the Calvary group that are causing the closing of her Facebook page? Are they afraid of something?
I'm bummed I couldn't watch this live, but I'm so here! Snacks & everything
😂😂😂😂
Nobody could watch it live. These episodes are pre-recorded.
Happy. Hapoy.
I never trust anyone who tells children, youth or young adults not to tell anyone about what they're being taught!! I'm assuming they don't want them to tell their parents either. This is so wrong in so many ways!!
Well Jesus said to not cast pearls before swine. So that’s why we keep things that are sacred sacred. You don’t share everything you and your wife discuss do you? Why discuss your profound faith to people who only want to take it away and for you to be modernist like them? I think you just have to find to right time and with the right people to share your faith :)
Keeping things secret is something Dan Wees showed well today on Facebook with Joseph's "translation" of the Book of Abraham and reason for Sarah to lie. Joseph needed to be able to make it legitimate to lie in God's name to be able to take more wives- polygamous & polyandrous- and play to their belief in his Prophetic call. I think that also helped frame his reason for writing the Happiness letter, and telling his loving wives to burn after reading. Dr. Grande did an analysis of Joseph on his page and suggested that Joseph was likely bi-polar, highly narcissistic, with some psychopathic tendencies as I remember. It is amazing to consider that recommend question "Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow man?"
Too many Mormon's answer like Bill Clinton, "It depends upon your definition of honest. I don't reveal my temple Covenants to the world... [I'm just a lying badtard online with my apologetics.]"
@incognito. Oh, yes. Those
"who remove the boundaries" tell their victims not to tell ANYONE because what they're doing is so special.
And sacred.
@@Gideonslc Or, the smiff
was just a greedy liar who discovered what he was and decided to make the MOST of it.
@@Gideonslc “What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when *I can only find one.”* --Joseph Smith the Liar, May 26, 1844,
Wow. It takes some megalomania to feel like you are a 'savior' for the alleged ONLY TRUE church.
LOL. Well played!
This sounds like Jacob Hansen.
@@charlesmendeley9823 Everyone I don't like is a sock-puppet account: An Anti-Mo's guide to youtube comments.
Clarification Mormonr is not mormon reddit. It’s an apologetic website that seems to be more up front about the issues than others
Yeah, r/mormon on reddit actually has about as many exmormons on it as faithful members! Now r/lds or r/latterdaysaints are the boards that will ban you at the drop of a white stovepipe hat!
I served a mission in the early 80's.
We were told not to argue with investigators or non members as contention is off the devil.
Maybe that's who they are actually working for ? 😁
Ward Radio tries these tactics on their shows also.
The attitude of these “scholars” is incredibly unchrist-like. If you believe in your argument, you don’t need to be rude and disrespectful.
If u believe u don't need to hide. Truth is the light.
@marquitaarmstrong399
Who is hiding? Their group is well known and apparently has thousands of members.
They're posting videos publicly, which is where the content for thus episode comes from. So who is hiding?
Ok. This is 1st view for me. @@robbowman483
Am xlds but still ❤ the missionaries. Eveyone is someone's baby
So like back off on the youngsters
I'm finishing this episode on Saturday..started on Friday. Can you do a follow up if the church shuts down The Cavalry and the Scholars?
They could, but that's not going to happen
Hello all ! Today is Friday the 2nd of August. I am letting you know several episodes of Mormon discussions you talked about popped up ! I am appalled at how these scholars are treating investigators . That means the site is STILL UP AND RUNNING! IT NEEDS TO BE SHUT DOWN! I posted a comment on their page that they are false and not authorized by the church! This church is false. These so called scholars are doing a great job pushing me out !
Thanks for bringing this to light.
It’s interesting that this exists - suggesting there is a perceived inadequacy to proselyte despite seminary and MTC training.
@@jenessem9276
There is an inadequacy considering the false information pushed by people like those in this episode.
@@TA-jb4keI’ve been watching the activity and effects of the Cavalry for quite awhile now. It’s not going to be enough to cry “nuh uh!”
@@jenessem9276
How long is "a while"?
Great point!
@@TA-jb4keWhat false information?
@RFM, those are Clone Troopers (Galactic Republic) from the Clone Wars prequels, they predate Storm Troopers and the Empire.
I feel strangely vindicated not to know that…. 😂
I was just listening but caught a glimpse. Weren't those 501st troopers though? The legion that became Vader's Fist after overthrowing the legally elected government?
🤣
I agree with RFM. Anything shady needs to be exposed and shine a very bright light on this BS!
How do I get the Cavalry to sick the dogs on me? I’m definitely their Huckleberry.
I just tried to join. I will keep you posted.
Are you a mizzionary?
@@KendraAndTheLaw
Not exactly.
The Calvary? Or The Missionary cheat page?
Am I the only one who thinks the church leaders already know about these types of groups, but are "allowing" it? It's very difficult to keep "secret combinations" secret. Someone surely has spilled the beans to a parent, who goes to the bishop, then to the stake president, and on up the chain of command.
We think they not only know about it but are secretly supporting it and may have even instituted it.
@@mormonishpodcast1036 OH, WOW! That makes this even MORE disturbing!
They organize it. Please! They act like they don't know about it. Shady AF
The church knows about the Cavalry but does not want direct involvement. It's an off grid pilot program.
Ok
I could find the Facebook group at 5:00 pm but can’t find it at 10:00 pm🤔
@@taxtrustsestates
How do you know this?
Source?
How much do you wanna guess they’re the authors and funders of it?
When I see our local elders out and about, I always try to give them money. I know the boys are eating rice and beans may be a little bit better but I know they don’t have a lot of extra money so I usually try to give each of them some pocket money to go to McDonald’s or something or buy some shampoo I don’t care it’s just they’re about the same age as my boys and we’re not Mormon butI’d like to think that their mom would appreciate it and their dad
I'm very much looking forward to learning of your research on this topic. I suspect I know who it is, but yes, this absolutely needs to be brought into the light.
A guy named Travis Anderson.
@@Thebeautifuleye I know.
Come on, Dave! We both know that Robert Boylan and Travis Anderson don't want us saying their names out loud (oopsie!)
@@fwansonthey will fail as Mormonism is failing.
@@fwanson Did I say Robert Boylan and Travis Anderson? And Christopher Davis is another of their thugs.
Thank you for covering this! So eye opening. 😮
IMO, the LDS church and subsequent apologetic groups’ use of milieu control is problematic. Should missionaries be getting information from sources outside of the mission? Should any member be able to do so? Yes. The church knows what it is doing when it controls information (Steven Hassan’s BITE model is a great reference in this regard) because it keeps them bound to a system of authoritarian control and stops critical thinking. The church knows that if they get members hooked while they are a missionary, the chances of retaining lifelong tithe payers increases dramatically. Mental health issues abound inside and outside of the church. It’s hard to stay for some people and it’s hard to leave for many. There’s a lot of nuance within this patriarchal system, but there are red flags all over the place no matter how you slice it.
Really glad to see you taking this on. The behavior of this group really needs to be exposed.
What behavior? Helping missionaries answer questions instead of allowing adults to try and destroy their beliefs?
@@darksteps7328. Do you think the church would approve of said behavior?
@@darksteps7328did you watch the video? No one is destroying anyone's belief. That's the nature of belief. We are however stating facts. If you don't like facts that's not our problem.
@@darksteps7328 so the people in this group are not adults?
Why can't the Church properly teach & prepare its own missionaries? Why need a secretive, deceptive group to teach missionaries to lie to investigators AKA "friends"? @@darksteps7328
I bet those missionaries are counting those visits with “Scholars” as “member present” lessons 🤬 no but in all seriousness this is so concerning and sad. Thank you for reporting on this!
Should I forward this episode to my Stake President?
Exactly why would you?
So basically, garden-variety internet trolls found a way to feel like Big Men.
I saw something about posts about this getting taken down and Rebecca's account getting flagged so I'm just here to root for you 🎉
I hope they have rocky the squirrel secret decoder rings
Flashback 2 chuldhoid. Thanx. Oh my gosh. Rocky decoder rings.😮😮😮😮😮😮childhood.
Just commenting to bump this episode! It’s important. It’s not just about apologetics
Thank you!
I became so nauseated like facing demons to learn of these “Cain ver ly” type scholars’ interference in active missionaries (I served a mission) but retained some heartfelt light regarding the RFM response to the active missionary … I know I am in good hands with Dr. Dehlin and RFM and Bill Reel, Rebecca B. and company…while exploring my path
I’m sorry, but when I was up in Massachusetts and my boyfriend’s born again, parents were slamming me with all of the reasons the church can’t be true and how Mormonism is faulty, I would’ve loved to have these guys on my side. I would’ve watched them 24 seven to back up my spine so I could talk to those people because they were cruel to me.
Same
Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, a group lying to you to make you feel better is really no better than a group yelling at you to make you feel bad. What is really needed is a group that kindly helps you discover the truth on your own…that’s why we have Mormonish!
Thank you for pointing this out!
I'm absolutely on board with RFM. The scholars SHOULD be named!
Agreed.
And I’m trying to remember RFM’s name!! 😅
So is the Facebook page still up? Is the UA-cam channel?
SNL? SouthPark? Stormtroopers? Fights? It's almost too offensive. 😂
The problem with you all is that you’re *honest,* so you are slow to catch on to dishonesty.
Do you think these LDS “scholars” would be so subversive when the church could retaliate by sending reports to their stake presidents and demand disciplinary actions?
Do you think that these LDS scholars would be so devious in this website that targets missionaries when the church could fire those who work for the church?
Do you think that these LDS scholars would run circles about mission presidents when the church could order them instantly to shit down the website?
*NO!*
The church is probably funding these so-called scholars to stupid help missionaries not to lose their testimonies and leave the church. But this way the brethren have plausible deniability WHEN word gets out, if the reaction is negative.
No. The brethren are tied to this. Someone pitched this dishonesty to the brethren, and the brethren went for it gleefully and willingly.
And for Pete’s sake, *OUT* *THE* *NAMES* *OF* *THESE* *BOZO* *APOLOGISTS!!!*
We agree 100%. That is why we said they are like Scripture Central doing what the church can’t do but wants to do so they can keep their hands clean while still lying to the missionary force.
If they go to Keanu, they may get red-pilled.
Question for all of you. How many missionaries go out unmedicated and come home or shortly after are medicated for anxiety/depression?
Idk how I missed you guys catching these people. Travis undermines LDS teaching on the afterlife based on how he is - BoyLand is such a treat.
It appears the video with Pastor Turk was taken down. I have had interactions with some of the "scholars" mentioned over Zoom.
It's there right now. Maybe they cut out the more offensive bits and reuploaded it.
@@aredesuyo Uploaded 5 hours ago. Looks like it!
Nah, looks like Travis just cut out the beginning of the video that showed the missionaries, @@aredesuyo.
Isn't the BoM itself based on Young Earth Creationism?
Naive scholars of the 1800s thought that everyone must have some sort of Biblical heritage.
The BoM capitalizes on this belief by saying the natives were from the lost tribes of Israel.
The BoM is clearly in the camp of young earth creationism.
Thank you so much for bringing this up. While I sympathize with the missionaries, I believe their actions will ultimately backfire. This will lead investigators to resent the church, and that sentiment will spread rapidly.
FUN FACT: You get a "This violates our Community Standards..." post block error message when you try to include the link to this show on Facebook in a post or a comment.
Try it.
Interesting, eh?
UPDATE: If you the "Share" option then the "Facebook" button from the choices given by UA-cam, then it works and will post just fine on FB.
But if you copy and paste the raw link it fails.
So if you're looking for a workaround, that's it.
I hope this helps - and share the heck out of this one, people!
NEW UPDATE: Right after I posted the above my profile got hack attacked on Facebook. Coincidence?
NEW NEW UPDATE: Another work around that we have discovered is to sent the linked via Facebook Messenger. That works too.
Your Facebook account got "hack attacked," @@fwanson? Are we to believe that The Cavalry is a hacktavist collective now? Are you aware that Facebook has policies against publicly sharing the content of their private groups on their platform? Think that might be the real non-coincidental reason?
And even if it was The Cavarly doing these it would absolutely be warranted because RFM and the Mormonish hosts (but mainly RFM) are the ones who started the fighting and the mudslinging over imaginary wrong doing,and they’re the ones who are calling for people in this group to be named and shamed AND to have this group be shut down. That’s literally encouraging a mass harassment campaign and the group has every right to defend itself from such slander,again that’s IF they are the ones doing this which is very likely not the case:
I love how worked up RFM is about the pure arrogance of the whole endeavor, not just the specifics. RFM, I bet you have a finely tuned bullshit meter.
And I am 100% behind your outrage. How dare they! Leave them alone and don’t jeopardize everything they hold dear!
I just kept the FB admin list open in front of me. Handy.
OMG the “Buh-bye” 😱🤯
To call them apologetics is too kind. Where I come from these are assholes.
BTW, the fact that the three of you are outraged by this ridiculous exercise in ego also belies where your hearts lie: you want the best for Mormons. Cynics and Nihilists, you’re not.
Thank you, RFM for your sincerity on missionaries . I'm thankful you and those here , do not attack missionaries for their serving. This Cavalry or Scholars, are actually hurting the missionaries by having them lie to their mission presidents! I'm so ready to leave this church
As a faithful member of the church you need to release the names.
Thank you for bringing this to the light. As a returned missionary myself and with a son who is planning on serving in about a year this kid of stuff needs to be stopped. Dangerous is exactly the correct word. This is how people like Chad Daybell get to where he got.
Now all of those falsely reported posts linking to this video that were taken down by Cavalry guys are back up! womp womp
On a side note the pastors from Apologia are usually pretty hostile and aggressive. They are fundamentalist calvinists who like to specifically target Mormons.
They are just as nasty but to be fair, they’re pretty public about their work.
Apologia always keeps a calm and civil tone.
@@FalconOfStormsno they don’t.
@@LatterDayPup Yes they do.
@@LatterDayPup could you please show us some clips of Apologia not being calm and civil?
I would like to see them.
Thanks.
Not important, but Mandalorians or Bounty Hunters is what they look like--not storm troopers! Great information, btw!
Had to look closely to make sure this was not related to the word Calvary used in the Bible.
I suppose they wanted a secret combination word that would be reminiscent of General George Custer, or perhaps the Knights Templar. Cavalry riders mounted on tapirs and rode into glorious battles.
Put some trusty tapirs under those strippling warrior missionaries being fused together through questionable apologetic training. With such leadership, they can attack that wagon train approaching Mountain Meadows and walk away feeling extra righteous.
As of 7/26/24 at 11:00 am that UA-cam channel is still up. I listened to 10 minutes (9 minutes too long!) and wanted to barf.
RFM you forgot to snap your fingers when you said 77 Sunset Strip .
❤d 77 Sunset Strip as an 8 year old.
Im 77 and been a member since 1955 , The church has changed , back then everyone was a convert ! even Joe Smith was a convert . Its changed into a worldly org, , I went thru the Temple before they changed the teachings ,
Struggling with Joseph Smith's character??? I bet Joseph did too. Especially on the road to Carthage. After reading No Man Knows My History I felt sorry 4 Joseph. When he turns to his brother and asks "What shall we do....?" Tears streamed.
When you think you’ve heard it all. Thanks for the sunshine
I find it interesting that these missionaries have the need to ask questions secretly and you have the need to expose them. You’re just justifying these missionaries to leave Mormonism, which we Christians welcome them into the fold, and maybe God is calling them to the light. I have prayed for God to reveal Himself and guide the misguided. Praise the Lord for this uprising and “the Calvary”
Really interesting! Thanks for sharing this
Love steadying the Ark. Great phraseology.
Don’t follow Joesph? What happened to “Follow the Prophet?”
As a mother, I’m a palled at these guys they’re basically looking for a little baby adults that they can dominate. I’m not even Mormon for God sake, but as a mom, I hate these guys.
Fight Club with Elder Brad Pitiful 😂
Not sure whether this is related, but I have heard rumors about Google drives shared among missionaries, covering topics such as "deep doctrine" (Kolob, etc.)
Join the live chat tomorrow! We are hearing similar rumors!
I've heard this too!
@mormonishpodcast1036
I also heard those rumors. I even have links to those materials.
It's just a bunch of books that are available for free that the missionaries can't access because of the restrictions they have on their phones.
It's pretty boring stuff you can find using Google.
Ya there was a kid john interviewed on Mormon stories. He said they shared Google drive files because they couldn't use a web browser. He said that he watched alot of movies from the Google drive while serving.
I distinctly remember this from my mission about 6 years ago. I didn’t get the document for myself, but I remember missionaries talking about it and how a soul in outer darkness is ripped apart.
When I was a missionary (Houston, TX) in 1986-88, there was a non-official book called The Day of Defence, which was a fictional/hypothetical courtroom situation where a bunch of pastors of various other churches were against 2 LDS missionaries and the judge was a Jew. The parties would Bible bash particular doctrinal topics, and of course, in the end the judge declares that the 2 missionaries presented the most rational arguments and he asked that they come to his house and teach him so that he can join the LDS church. Being in the Bible belt, this book was a great reference for me, and I did find myself in Bible-bashing situations on my mission and I got pretty good at it thanks to The Day of Defence and my own reading of the scriptures. Sounds like this new generation of missionaries is doing the same thing, but using today’s social media to form a secret society. In my day, we did not form any group, I just used the materials for personal study.
Why aren't missionaries supposed to be including members in their discussions?
The missionaries are to be including members in their discussions for friendshipping and fellowshipping and to bear testimony. These are trained apologists whose job is not to convert the investigator but to overwhelm the missionary with their impressive debating skills to convince them there are faithful answers to their questions by verbally beating up on the unsuspecting investigator and all while recording it and posting online for other missionaries to see how it is done.
@mormonishpodcast1036
No. The members are invited to teach, preach, expound and declare doctrine and testimony.
Out of curiosity, what is the precise objection to these guys providing answers to questions or the missionaries seeking out more informed members to help?
@mormonishpodcast1036 I think you greatly misunderstand the purpose here. If there's a "beatdown" what happens is that the missionaries engage with someone with strong anti-lds views and seek for people who have better understanding. When people like even Travis engage with people who are actually good faith the conversations are quite pleasant.
@@ProbeScoutthis is happening because Christians R much more prepared for the missionaries these days and the internet has exposed all your secrets.
BTW we will and can debunk your scholors as we have ours also!!!
@@davidjanbaz7728ah yes. Because beat downs are how you convert people 🙄
most of the kids won't be there out of free will alone so telling them to "concentrate on a successful mission" is a bit weird. kinda like congratulations for drafted soldiers who have to do the military service. when someone on mission makes the effort to reach out you can be pretty sure they're no tbms 🙄
Last refuge of a scoundrel😂😂😂😂😂😂😂am laughing 2 hard.
This is so extreme! Why am I not surprised? 😞
Great job on communicating this story. I appreciate you three. 🤗
Bruh…Antis are butthurt that people don’t allow antis free slam dunks anymore.
C’mon. Do you truly believe that the Brethren are unaware of The Cavalry? They are desperate to retain the dwindling numbers and desperate men commit desperate acts. This is right up their alley. The Brethren are not nice old godly men - they are (and historically have been) vicious men who will stop at nothing to retain their power, status, and wealth.
Agreed. People are paid to run that page for the church.
The Church does not, in fact, pay anyone for The Cavalry, @@amygreen758.
You guys are a little off base with this. For too long, there has been unfair representation of LDS beliefs by evangelicals, then when someone from the church takes a stand to debate and challenge evangelical presuppositions, everyone is up in arms. Travis can be rough around the edges, and no one is perfect, but there is certainly a place for this kind of work in today’s world. We also have to stand our ground.
If I was what are you on a mission and knew about this, ain’t no way I would go.
Those are actually repubic clone troopers, they are on the side of the jedi.
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Dont let doubts fester! Post your question or reach out to Jennifer Roach, Travis Anderson, Ben Spackman, Christopher Davis, Jennifer Roach, Don Bradley, Errol Vincent Amey, D Lawrence Barksdale, Tarik LaCour, Stephen Smoot, Sarah Allen, and Robert Boylan. These folks combined have a vast breadth of knowledge and training, both formal and informal. Also be sure to attend our weekly zoom discussions and take lots of notes!
No Bashing Eachother/Be Humble/Respect
Scholars
It's ok to respectfully discuss different ideas but there are
Wow. Missionaries not telling the mission president? That's not good ! This is actually scary
Travis Anderson and Robert Boylan are narcissists