Weird and unusual video, so hopefully you guys like it. Lol. Did any 10YR stats make you think anyone is overrated/underrated? 4/03/20 UPDATE: You guys have responded really well to this video, and many have requested a 5YR version, so me and my friend have already begun collecting data for that one! May take a while though, but we'll do our best. ---Link to the 10YR stats we gathered. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f5o3dFpeH10v2kB-GDaJN8IfzrHfcgH_wk1Glk8TpGU/edit#gid=0 EDITS: Kobe's slide at the end says he has 9 1st Team All-NBA appearances, but its actually 8, and thats why its not highlighted green. Kobe was not First Team in the 04-05 season.
Obviously its gonna make Jordan look good (and I play into that at the end of the video) but Kobe is my favorite, so if I'm gonna show bias, its towards him. I think the best part about a video like this, is that it puts a spotlight on great players who had shorter careers. Alvin Robertson for example is a guy that almost nobody talks about anymore, but he shoots to the top on this video, and maybe that will help him get some recognition
We did take ABA seasons into account on the Master list, I would just obviously put a mental asterisk by it. If I'm remembering correctly, I didn't talk about any ABA players in the video, partially because I thought the comparison wasn't fair.
Now that I see your editors note in the comments and checked the stat for myself it was only 8. But he shoulda got 2 MVPs minimum in his career. Nash shouldn't have got 2.
@@aliciasplaytime6905it’d probably be more due to the fact that both times that he retired, he went out of basketball shape. He also averaged 30 ppg with the wizards until his knee injury, which probably wouldn't happen if he was healthy
It’s actually incredible that Barkley was a 6’6 Powerforward that played in a physical league when big men were “big men” but he still dominated despite being undersized.
Charles is the best PF and should be considered in the goat discussion too. Its and individual accolade, why all those nine are in great teams that win? If Jordan should play in New Jersey, and never win anything, would we will talking about him?
Daniel Ally Lebron vs KD best 10 years : 2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1 2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7 2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0 2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1 2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0 2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4 2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2 2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1 2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4 2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0 2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8 Lebron win 6 times vs KD 5 and he scored 23259 wich would put him in the 3rd place. So this guy just didnt took lebron's best season. Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD. So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 if we take their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
@@marqueljohnson4211 thanks man. My mistake was actually not the fact that it wasn’t green, but it’s that it said 9 instead of 8. Kobe was 2nd team in 01, and he didn’t make a team in 05, therefore giving him 8 First Team appearances in that 10 year stretch
@@jonnyarnett thank you for the clarification and the reply I genuinely love your content. I respect How unbiased you are and Pay homage to The forgotten greats.
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA This narrative again? What about when LEBRON + WADE + BOSH went against 1 Dirk and lost? Yeah. And the Jazz were actually favored to win the title in those later years. They were beating stacked teams like the Shaq-Kobe-Exel-Eddie Lakers and Duncan-Robinson Spurs. Also, the Sonics were underdogs because they were going against 72-10 Jordan. I repeat best 10 year stretch of any NBA player ever. Lebron still top 4-5 all time though
Daniel Ally Lebron vs KD best 10 years : 2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1 2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7 2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0 2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1 2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0 2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4 2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2 2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1 2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4 2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0 2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8 Lebron win 6 times vs KD 5 and he scored 23259 wich would put him in the 3rd place. So this guy just didnt took lebron's best season. Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD. So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 if we take their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
I remember after Jordan’s first three titles he was being called the GOAT, but some people had arguments for other players. After he came back and won three more he definitely proved he was the GOAT
I was a kid during his first three-peat and remembering all the other players and coaches in interviews calling him the greatest every. The second name I remember being considered the most other than Michael was Wilt. Nobody hardly brings him up much these days.
@@brianelam9297 It's a bit of a shame that we've let rings take up so much of the conversation. That is so much more random than anyone realizes. Even the weird jargon of calling it a "chip" as if it's just a line on a resume instead of an accomplishment for a whole organization just speaks to how silly the whole thing is. Dinging a force of nature like Chamberlain for "only" winning 2 championships is more evidence in that direction.
"He's the best athlete - he's one of the best competitors - he's one of the most skilled players, and that, to me, makes him the best basketball player that I've ever seen play." - Bobby Knight, 1984, before MJ even played 1 second in the NBA.
You, sir, know your basketball history! Thanks for spotlighting guys like Bob Pettit, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West and Oscar Robertson and for verifying the greatness of guys who are famous but not quite respected enough like John Stockton and Charles Barkley and Moses Malone, while introducing younger fans to unfamiliar great players like Jerry Lucas and Nate Thurmond and Elvin Hayes and Alvin Robertson. For somebody middle-aged like me, I get frustrated when stars I read about when I was a kid like Bob Pettit are completely forgotten, while players I actually watched like Kareem and Magic and Bird are no longer given the credit they deserve. There WAS great basketball being played before MJ and then Kobe and then LeBron came to the league. Among the UA-camrs purring up sports videos, you are DEFINITELY in the running for GOAT!
Me too! Until I realized that a lot of his years are cut like for example 1995. I think rodman recorded the highest rebound% in nba history at that time but only played 47 games.
david martinez I was thinking the same thing myself!!! But Jonny knew this when he was making this episode!!! How wouldn’t he since the majority of people in this channel are NBA fans who are knowledgeable when it comes to basketball which means that we all knew that Rodman led the league in rebounding seven straight years in a row on three different teams!!!
Looks like his standing on this list depends on which 10 years are picked. If it's the years from 87-88 to 96-97, then he's at 9992 rebounds. If it's from 88-89 to 97-98, then he's at 10478 rebounds (and therefore 3rd on the non-60s list). I think a valid case could be made for either 10 year span.
there are still arguments regarding whether some players played on a stacked era or not but regardless this is a more or less accurate representation of GOAT list.
It just doesnt't work considering longevity is the most important athletic factor and not ever yone is built to last. Jordan is ideal for these kinds of comparisons because he built his whole legacy in about 8 years,but someone like Stockton,who should be lauded for missing only 22 games in 20 bloody years,would look underwhelming compared to what he actually was as a player.
@Salvador Luna lonegvity in lebrons case means 17 years of 27 7 7 play,in stocktons case it's 18 years as a top 2/3 pg in the league,there is always context to be considered. vince carter is an example of just barely staying good enough to make the league each year.
@Salvador Luna where did i imply the GOAT wasn't an athletic freak? I said he is ideal for isolating a 10 year stretch because he doesn't gain much by adding more years on top of his reigning decade. While players like stockton benefit greatly.
Yes.....if you just ignore Russell's 11 titles in 13 years, coaching 2 of them as a starter including all 8 of his first 8 seasons. Yeah. You'd be right on point
@@tlcall9645 you dont have to ignore it. The next best championship run would be Jordan's 6 of 8. Undefeated in the finals. Still in the goat conversation
@@Triggy6825 what are you 13? Sam Jones has 10 rings. Havlichek has 9. KC Jones has 8 as a player, 3 as a coach. Horry has 7. Cousy, Kareem, Jordan and pippen have 6. Know what you're talkin about lil dude b4 you counterpoint. FOH
Who of those are in talks of Goat above MJ? Kareem would be next. But if we're talking championship rings performance, Russell, kareem and none of the others you listed can stand alongside Jordan.
I watched ball from before Magic, interest peaking in late 80's - late 90's[ about a 10 year span lol ] Watched Jordan knock my Cavs out 5x, hated him, hated the over-promotion and preferential treatment from the refs and the league office with rule 'adjustments', but in the end, hatred or not, I was forced to admit he was the best I saw. He was basketball's Babe Ruth. Babe was an offensive nightmare and a GREAT pitcher, MJ, a double threat as a lockdown defender...here's how good MJ was on D: that same damn tired AI crossover where he loses position briefly and STILL contests is replayed a billion times, as if he fell over like Dominique did vs Brd
Your a very intelligent person. Lol you've seen what I've been telling folks for years, even tho AI did cross mike he dam near recovered and blocked it.99% of these dummy's dont realize that. Mj for ever.
Porkfrog great point I always thought that Jordan didn't stumble or fall a.i. was just quicker than Jordan at that time in their careers.. btw Iverson is another level quick tho
Does rod Woodson suck cuz Barry Sanders juked him? Does a tackle in football in the 80's bad cause L.T. ran thru him to get a sack?? Nope so just because A.I. did a crossover that's damn near illegal doesn't really mean M.J. got shook it was just he knew what he was going to do and jordan was reacting to what a.i. was doing...
@@tonsthebeast6773 Iverson's handles were among the best all-time...how else do you explain a 6 footer living in the paint? People couldn't guard him--shit, a 15 foot jumper is a WIN vs that guy. He was-and I know this will annoy many-Isiah 2.0...Both are severely underrated and destined to stay that way, despite Isiah's chips and the single greatest 4th quarter in Finals history As far as Woodson/Sanders...HE LITERALLY 'BROKE HIS ANKLES'. He injured him WITH FAKES, NO CONTACT...one the most amazing things I've ever seen in any sport as far as greats, every great in basketball has been beaten by a great...Jordan was schooled too, just very rarely off the dribble. the aforementioned Isiah was bleeped when asked about the first time he saw rookie Jordan's quickness: his response: OH SHIT! Jordan himself, to his great credit, admitted in a quote I use all the time: 'I had to learn what it takes to win in this league from guys like Bird and Magic'. There are multiple clips of guys falling not only for, but FROM, Bird's fakes...Bird had handles, but of course not elite, but as a triple threat, he broke ankles. There's even a vid on here like 'Bird breaking your grandpa's ankles' But Jordan, while biting on those fakes and getting schooled, was learning and adapting...only a guy who watched his whole career could understand that while impossibly gifted, what made MJ the best was his constant evolving, in the 80's, no one could stay with him to save their life, but his outside shot was terrible, his threes were 50% the league AVERAGE. Later he bulked up to beat the Pistons, later he becomes solid from outside, sometimes spectacular, and he develops a post game and a Bird-like fadeaway? GTFOOH...who EVER evolved their game like MJ did? That and that D makes him the best I saw
A.I. was simply quicker.. MJ did not lost his balance or anything.. I hated MJ too when he pushed Russel before hitting "the shot" and beat the Jazz.. but when he returned from his 2nd retirement and played for the wizards for 2 seasons as a 40 yr old and still dominating most of the time, that made me appreciate his game more than when he and the bulls were unstopabulls..
Let's be real here. Russell would have won at least 6 Finals MVPs during his 8 titles. He would've won at least 2 DPOY too. That alone immediately puts Russell at 4 and MJ at 7. Russell would have made the all defensive team 9 or all 10 years (if ten Jordan loses another point). Russell or Wilt would win blocks and blocks per game too. Let's say Russell makes 9 defensive teams (MJ keeps his via tie) and Russell or Wilt will get the blocks/BPG category. (Kareem loses 2 points here for his block titles and bpg and Russell/Wilt gains the blocks and bpg category). New rankings: Jordan: 6-7 Russell: 5-7 Wilt: 5-7 Magic: 4 Kareem: 2 Everyone else
Lebron vs KD best 10 years : 2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1 2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7 2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0 2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1 2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0 2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4 2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2 2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1 2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4 2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0 2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8 Lebron win 6 times vs KD 5 and he scored 23259 wich would put him in the 3rd place. So this guy just didnt took lebron's best season. Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD. So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 if we take their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
Some people just don't understand how much more he demanded out of his teammates. If you could handle Jordan talkin shit to you then you couldn't handle the finals. 🤷♂️😎🤣😂 Lebrick and saved by He Got Game would rather pass the ball to you.
@@kingDrAgOnZoRdS that's my point exactly. You'd rather have the guy that preaches that. I'd rather play with that guy that already knows that. Kinda like why we talking about this again we came to practice and we're professionals. 🤣 I'll kick your butt if you talk to me about the obvious again. Give me that guy to play with real talk. He's gonna get more out of you than you thought yourself.
This video is excellent. The concept is simple but interesting and unique and the whole thing is executed really well and thoroughly. I gained new perspective on a number of players. I hope you do a whole series - 2yr, 3yr, 4yr etc. I’d watch them all. Thanks
Hey, Jonny, the Tim Duncan MVP season was during the lowest percentage shooting since the 1960s (some years in the 60's people shot better) younger people especially discredit the poor efficiency without taking in context the combination of zones and hand checking. Tim Duncan, for example, shot 7 percent better from the field during the 2003-2004 season which is about the same as Barkley's 10-year peak if you take his 1986 to 1996 stat lines.
@@SalRubino82 I have tied with Kobe and Wilt at 5. If he would have beaten the heat in 2013 I would put him at two. MJ Bron Kareem Magic Wilt/Kobe/Duncan
After all the crunching stats JORDAN STILL COMES OUT BEING THE GOAT. (Added thought:) I wonder if folks compare baseball era's like they do basketball? Some folks say Mickey Mantle the greatest baseball player. I have no idea how to rank baseball players.
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA based on the numbers dude just crunched in this video... still comes out in a 10 year period Jordan GOAT. But I do feel wilt Chamberlain stats are insane BUT WHY HE COULDN'T WIN with those insane CONSISTENT GAMES WITH THOSE NUMBERS is insane, but its team sport. Your looking at a man over 7ft vs a 6.6 man. Think about it. A smaller guy still averaging 30 something like gigantic man. My goat finishes what he starts once he got over the failing hump, your goat can't finish
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA if you can't figure out how to win being that dominant, I don't know man, but that's failing to me. Then Wilt needed help to win his first championship.... JUST LIKE JORDAN NEEDED ANOTHER SCORER aggressive like himself. It's a team sport man. But Wilt appears to be the greatest physically dominant athlete... but he still couldn't figure out how to win.
@@MadSUPANOVA Wilt had to go against a Celtics team with 5 hall-of-famers. How many titles would Jordan win if he had to go against 5 hall-of-famers? ZERO Also, this 10-year measure used at the very end of this video is VERY biased towards anyone after the 1970's. Bill and Wilt would've DEFINITELY had the most blocks, BPG, DPOY, blocks titles, and all-defensive teams.
@Anderson Bastien But hes not wrong, Dr j saved the nba and the nba gives the credit to bird and johnson even though erving came to the sixers in 77 and IMMEDIATELY won mvp even though he was at the tail end of his prime.
..aand YET ANOTHER on the list of amazingly argumented videos about why Jordan is statistically easily the GOAT. Yet the fabricated "debate" somehow still also grows.
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA can Shaq defend Jordan? U wanna talk about Jan 13, 1993 when Jordan with a hurt wrist dropped 64 points, 6 rebs and 5 steals versus Shaqs Orlando Magic?
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA that narrative is SO ludicrous it's laughable. NBA didn't change rules to help MJ. They changed it because the NBA wanted to grow its brand & expand globally, hence u seen the 1992 Dream Team. U seem to be to old to be this biased towards a player & following fake news
@@ibelieveicansoar You mean like Dan Issel, David Thompson, Artist Gilmore, Moses George Gervin, Rick Barry, Moses Malone Malone, Billy Cunningham, Louie Dampier, Mel Daniels, Connie Hawkins, Spencer Haywood, Maurice Lucas, George McGinnis, Doug Moe, Bobby Jones, Roger Brown, Charlie Scott, Zelmo Beaty, etc Etc ETC and other notable ABA Players who are in the NBA HOF? FOH
Really loved this! I have been day dreaming about this topic for years! I have wondered when a player was hot and on fire how they ranked against each other through the decades. I would really like to see a 3YR one if you could. Just to see how the samples we witnessed from Derrick Rose, Gilbert Arenas, Brandon Roy, TMac, stack up. I feel like over the years certain players have been so hot they seemed like the next goat only to have they’re career cut short. I really like the ideas of comparing players when they’re hot, vs total numbers accrued. Remember when Kevin love was the Man with the timberwolves? How does his best 3 years stack against Kobe’s best 3? Probably closer than people would think! Really really like this train of thought and the video! Put years of daydreaming into perspective.
It's funny you mention Pettit because I was reading an old stats book and was amazed at how many all NBA teams he made. Then I watched a Bill Russell interview and he mentioned Pettit as one of the greatest he's ever faced.
I wish he played in this era so people can see an example of a high-scoring guard who doesn't need to shoot 10 to 20 3-pointers a game to avg 25-30 points.
50ppg...And that's what almost all experts and almost all former NBA players say that he would get so many points. At least 45, but probably 50 points every single night or game. Example: in the 90s, i.e. in the complete decade, there were only two players who had more than 30 points per game over a complete season. And one was Michael Jordan who I think achieved 7 times and the other time was Malone And now, every season, an average of 3 to 5 players get over 30 points per game in the season, so more people in one season got 30 points per game than they did in a decade.
Lebron vs KD best 10 years : 2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1 2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7 2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0 2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1 2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0 2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4 2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2 2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1 2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4 2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0 2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8 Lebron win 6 times vs KD 5 and he scored 23259 wich would put him in the 3rd place. So this guy just didnt took lebron's best season. Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD. So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 if we take their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
What’s even crazier is most people don’t talk about how I’d he played in this era that would mean he’d more then likely have a much better shoot especially from 3 given the advancements in training and technology.
Excellent video. Truly respect your effort, hard work, & dedication to the history of the game. I've been an NBA fan since '65 (I'm 68), so I really appreciate this video. Your mentions of Oscar, Baylor, English, & Moses were especially enjoyable to me. Keep up the good work. P.S: looking forward to "how good was he" videos on Oscar, Bob McAdoo & Alex English (the '80's highest scoring player).
Thanks Sid! That compliment means a lot, especially from a gentleman like yourself who's witnessed many of the players I talk about. Hope to do Bob McAdoo at some point. Younger generations definitely aren't aware of him. I have done videos on Oscar Robertson ua-cam.com/video/Lrninrezp1s/v-deo.html and Alex English ua-cam.com/video/-FchaIPKtgw/v-deo.html. They're much older videos of mine, so the quality probably isn't as good, but you may still enjoy them!
Easily my favorite vid. This was awesome. I'd love to see a 5 year span. I'm sure we'd have some current players like harden and russ in the mix I'd like to add to my wish list of elvin Hayes, sam Cassel and the admiral...possibly adrian dantley as one of the most underappreciated scorers in nba history
West would be up there in steals and he also blocked an insane amount of shots for a guard. Usually dropping down and blocking Frontline guys from behind.
Wilt couldn't guard Lucas or Cowens outside. How is going to be able to guard a top flight guard. Didn't Geoff Petrie win the NBA one on one competition.?
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA Jordan's opponents were underdogs because they were playing Jordan. They wouldn't have been underdogs playing anyone else.
I think this is the best video I've seen yet talking about the goat discussion. And while I don't think he is contending, it would make sense to include Oscar in the GOAT comparison to have a round of 10. Also nice to highlight the stats of Barkley and Moses - I would love to also see those of Hakeem, Shaq and DWade - maybe Hakeem or Shaq are relevant for the 10 best as well.
P.2x.U Lebron vs KD best 10 years : 2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1 2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7 2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0 2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1 2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0 2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4 2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2 2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1 2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4 2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0 2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8 Lebron scored 21 516 in these 10 season so he would be right after Kobe in the 8th place. So again all these stats doesnt really mean anything because Lebron was more consistent, and also had a 56% true shooting in 2012 and 2013, KD never had more than 53. Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD. So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 and scored more points in their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
People forget what a beast Barkley was, he was the most efficient PF in history, second all time in 2 pt fg% of all the top 50 scorers, second only to Shaq, plus he was an insane rebounder.
@jocriss The '67 76ers was Wilt's only team which was as strong as the Celtics and they destroyed them in the Playoffs. The warriors were quite trash, Wilt had to score 50 every other game just to keep them in the Playoffs. Even on the Lakers, He had only West. Baylor was old af
Great video as per usual! Quickly, the video finishes stating Kb has no green categories but has equal all 1st teams at 9 with other players who are green highlighted - not sure if that was missed. Also did you calculate winning category(s) to objectively rank 1-9? Does this take total accolades and stats into account? E.g., number of 2nd, 3rd place finishes etc. Love your work
@Salvador Luna who are you talking to? Are you aware of illegal defence being removed? I wouldn't compare MJ and Lebron they're just too different. Lebron plays in a post hand check, post illegal defence era. It didn't make the NBA soft it actually makes scoring harder. MJ is a shooting guard it's not his job to make plays. Lebron is a point guard he might not score as much but he elevates his teamua-cam.com/video/ydOUbQqYb30/v-deo.html
Salvador Luna Lebron vs KD best 10 years : 2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1 2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7 2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0 2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1 2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0 2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4 2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2 2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1 2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4 2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0 2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8 Lebron win 6 times vs KD 5 and he scored 23259 wich would put him in the 3rd place. So this guy just didnt took lebron's best season. Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD. So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 if we take their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
@@johnmedina7083 You can't be serious that the modern game makes scoring harder. Just look at the goddamned stats. It's like the steroid era in baseball.
@@jonnyarnett MJ was on All-NBA First Team in each of his 10 prime seasons: 1. 86/87 - 82 games 2. 87/88 - 82 3. 88/89 - 81 4. 89/90 - 82 5. 90/91 - 82 6. 91/92 - 80 7. 92/93 - 78 8. 95/96 - 82 9. 96/97 - 82 10. 97/98 -82 10 prime MJ's seasons. In each of them he was selected to All-NBA First Team. I think it's clear - and there's a mistake in the video. 10 times in a row All-NBA First Team for MJ - if we count consecutive 10 prime seasons over 50 games each season.
The only other MJ's season in Bulls' uniform with more than 50 games was his rookie season 84/85, when he was selected to All-NBA Second Team. In 85/86 he played 18 games, in 94/95 he played 17 games, in 93/94 he didn't play at all.
Lebron vs KD best 10 years : 2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1 2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7 2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0 2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1 2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0 2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4 2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2 2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1 2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4 2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0 2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8 Lebron win 6 times vs KD 5 and he scored 23259 wich would put him in the 3rd place. So this guy just didnt took lebron's best season. Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD. So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 if we take their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
@@Anthonydu01630 same way he manipulated numbers is the same way you have done we can crunch numbers all we want. It really just comes down to the game itself. Who was that player that was just different from the rest and to me that is mu hands down
This is the best video you’ve made. I’d love to see more about Kareem, Russell, and Wilt. For example, if DPOY had been awarded, who might have been given that award? Or would it have been someone else? Also: a video about who the GOAT is based on the data you’ve collected that doesn’t filter for your GOAT picks. Lotsa work. If you need help I’d be happy to oblige, but would need some direction! Thank for this.
If DPOY existed for all of Bill's career, he'd likely have at least 5 and SERIOUSLY might have 10+ of them. SAME on Finals MVP - but he got the "we're going to name the award after you" consolation prize THERE. Bill CREATED the center that was a defensive monster (though to be fair, Wilt was no slouch in that department, but was overshadowed by his insane OFFENSIVE numbers).
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA Wilt Chamberlain was a choker whose production dipped in the playoffs. Imagine having 30ppg in regular season to 22ppg in the playoffs. Its almost pathetic.
I'll Shiv you. Lebron vs KD best 10 years : 2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1 2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7 2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0 2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1 2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0 2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4 2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2 2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1 2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4 2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0 2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8 Lebron scored 21 516 in these 10 season so he would be right after Kobe in the 8th place. So again all these stats doesnt really mean anything because Lebron was more consistent, and also had a 56% true shooting in 2012 and 2013, KD never had more than 53. Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD. So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 and scored more points in their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
how come Kobe's 9 all NBA first teams made isn't green? he would be tied with all the rest who had 9 or more and he'd rank with the other GOATs who had 1 green category
MJ was on All-NBA First Team in each of his 10 prime seasons: 1. 86/87 - 82 games 2. 87/88 - 82 3. 88/89 - 81 4. 89/90 - 82 5. 90/91 - 82 6. 91/92 - 80 7. 92/93 - 78 8. 95/96 - 82 9. 96/97 - 82 10. 97/98 -82 10 prime MJ's seasons. In each of them he was selected to All-NBA First Team. I think it's clear - and there's a mistake in the video. 10 times in a row All-NBA First Team for MJ - if we count consecutive 10 prime seasons over 50 games each season.
The only other MJ's season in Bulls' uniform with more than 50 games was his rookie season 84/85, when he was selected to All-NBA Second Team. In 85/86 he played 18 games, in 94/95 he played 17 games, in 93/94 he didn't play at all.
You missed that Kobe also had 9 First Team selections, and made him have 0 green-lighted stats. (even though you gave Bird, James and Duncan 1 for each, because of the stat).
@Ladh 70 Despite the fact that I didn't mention Jordan once in this comment, you randomly decide to comment about him. I am not sure how you can make the claim that 45% is bad FG% when Kobe dealt with injuries most of his career and played with a injured shooting finger for a decent amount of years. Also ignoring the fact that he broke his wrist early in his career, which affected his shooting as well. And, of course, the Achille's tendon injury, which made him a former shell of himself, which also hit his FG%. You probably didn't even watch him play, at least that's what I get from reading your comment.
@@ohdaUtube Both of them got career ending injuries pretty early, so I am not sure what you mean. Kobe played through injuries that were not career ending, but that made his efficiency suffer.
the problem with jordan arc is that he never really played 10 straight years (94-95), which meant his years were handpicked giving him undue advantage.
great video, would love to do this type of content on my channel...your videos and channel are inspiring, I love the way you analyze the game...good job..
@@sundigest1121 Have you compared Bill and Wilt's rebounding numbers to their CONTEMPORARIES? Yes, the pace inflated them some - but nobody else was even close IN THEIR OWN ERA for more than 1-2 years. About the only one since that has a legit complaint MIGHT be Dennis Rodman in his BEST years - but the pace was NOT 50% higher to put him on a par with Wilt or Bill.
Wilt didn't win the Assist title. He led the league in Total assists, Not Assists per game. He had 8.6 APG but Oscar Robertson played less games and had 9.0 APG. Still an amazing achievement nonetheless. To lead the league in total assists as a center.
@@johnjackson9819 Point. But also keep in mind it wasn't uncommon for him - he had 7.9 or 8.1 or something like that the year before, when he WASN'T actively trying for the title. Uncommon for a big man to pull a lot of assists, bloody RARE for a center - even if he wasn't in Magic's range or even Larry Bird's.
"If blocks had been counted Wilt and Russell would be in the mix." That's an understatement if I've ever heard one. Wilt likely averaged over 10 blocks a game for his career. Russell around 6-7. Wilt would have about as many blocks for his career as the entire rest of the 10 yr top 5 combined.
@@NNOutBurger_Gaming longevity is rare but when u put a ton of care on your body ONLY to play one side of the possession, that's disingenuous, when you're built to be so much more physically imposing
Duncan's mvp season in 03 is very underrated. Note that the teams were averaging only around 80 points compared today where players are scoring 100 regularly.
Especially when you go deeper into the advanced stats and efficiency ratings. Duncan was the defensive anchor for all those championship teams, even after kawhi was brought into the fold.
If you did a player's best ten years, you would have to leave out at least two titles from Bill Russell's career no matter which ten-year stretch you use, including his rookie season due to playing less than 50 games. Welp...
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA Why do you think Chamberlain lost to Russell's Celtics all the time? And why do you think he finally won in 1967? The core team was similar for years and he had good teammates Hal Greer, Chet Walker, and Billy Cunningham. What changed?
Lebron vs KD best 10 years : 2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1 2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7 2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0 2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1 2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0 2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4 2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2 2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1 2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4 2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0 2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8 Lebron scored 21 516 in these 10 season so he would be right after Kobe in the 8th place. So again all these stats doesnt really mean anything because Lebron was more consistent, and also had a 56% true shooting in 2012 and 2013, KD never had more than 53. Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD. So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 and scored more points in their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
Yeah, for sure! I wanted my channel to be about Basketball throughout history, and a love for the game. Kobe is my favorite player ever, so I'm including him, and Steph, Bron, and Jordan show the different eras. I wish I could include more eras/players, but that intro would be waaay too long. lol
Villain - Lebron vs KD best 10 years : 2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1 2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7 2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0 2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1 2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0 2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4 2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2 2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1 2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4 2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0 2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8 Lebron scored 21 516 in these 10 season so he would be right after Kobe in the 8th place. So again all these stats doesnt really mean anything because Lebron was more consistent, and also had a 56% true shooting in 2012 and 2013, KD never had more than 53. Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD. So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 and scored more points in their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
This is slowly becoming one of my favorite channels your ideas are creative and I haven’t seen any other basketball you tubers come up with the ideas you have
Thank you for this one. This really is a great perspective. I particularly enjoyed you spotlighting Barkley with the Duncan comparison; too many people just discount Chuck (and Malone) because they didn't win rings; meanwhile, Duncan's 5 rings all came without a Michael Jordan in their way. (not taking anything away from Duncan, he IS one of the greatest ever)
Yeah, guys who played in the 90s but not on the Bulls, or 60s but not on the Celtics, get a raw deal in terms of champion reputation. Especially West, Baylor, Barkley, Malone and so on.
Kobe actually had 8x First, 1x Second (2001) and 1x Third (2005) during that span, so he mistakenly put 9 first, which is probably why he didn't highlight it, the correct is 8x First.
This is not about basketball, this is just to thank you for making these videos. Stay safe in these difficult moments (coronavirus). You give us something else to think about and some sense of normalcy and joy to our lives at home, thank you.
I screwed up bro! I knew I would make at least one crucial typo. Smh. Kobe actually had 8 from 01-10, NOT 9. So its correct in the fact thats its not green, its just the wrong number. In case you're wondering, Kobe was not First Team in the 04-05 season.
just shows how short and injury-riddled Larry Birds career actually was. not that it wasnt at least partially his fault but i look forward to the 5 year one :) great idea btw :)
Well, the good thing is that he shows that Stockton was legit. Now Rusty Bucket and The NBA Storyteller won’t like that one bit. You would think by the way they try to discredit him, that Stockton stole their wife or something...
@M Pr nicely put and I agree with you about wilt as I've been schooling people on him for 10 years. He's the greatest Athlete ever. He ran track was NCAA high jump champ, was all world volleyball player, has super human strength, and a basketball HOF. He's no joke. My list is GOAT Jordan, magic, wilt, dream, Kobe/bird then lebron...
Lebron vs KD best 10 years : 2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1 2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7 2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0 2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1 2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0 2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4 2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2 2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1 2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4 2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0 2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8 Lebron scored 21 516 in these 10 season so he would be right after Kobe in the 8th place. So again all these stats doesnt really mean anything because Lebron was more consistent, and also had a 56% true shooting in 2012 and 2013, KD never had more than 53. Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD. So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 and scored more points in their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
Based on 10 years, Wilt is miles ahead. Over 35 PPG, over 24 RPG. When the "5 Year" list happens, Wilt will have a 41 PPG avg. Just his 78 point, 43 rebound game should be enough to speak about who had the best prime years. Father Time ultimately beats everyone.
@@linorestrepolobo3620 Such as DPOY; did not exist for him, though since he is the leading shotblocker of all time, he would have won at least 5 times. The FMVP did not exist for most of his career [he won once], but he would also have won in 1967 had it existed. Hard to win regular season MVP every year when Russell is also in the league. How does Wilt NOT win it the season he averages 50? Lack of official blocked shot tally robs him of likely being the #2 Triple Double leader of all time, and being by far the leader in Quadruple Doubles. Besides the well-known stacked Celtics, the Knicks team Wilt's Lakers lost to in the 1973 finals had 5 players from the "NBA's 50" on it.
@@tunanorth a lot of ifs in your statement. You cannot be the GOAT if you don’t even dominate your era. He shared the spotlight with Bill. Once MJ started winning no one else ate and that’s because he was smart enough to adapt to a system. Before he started winning, MJs numbers were more ridiculous, take 88 for example, but he was wise enough to sacrifice his individual stats so he could win still putting up absurd numbers. He was at his best in the playoffs where wilts performances lacked tremendously. Wilt is an all time great, personally have him number 4 on my list but he is not on MJs stratosphere
Weird and unusual video, so hopefully you guys like it. Lol.
Did any 10YR stats make you think anyone is overrated/underrated?
4/03/20 UPDATE: You guys have responded really well to this video, and many have requested a 5YR version, so me and my friend have already begun collecting data for that one! May take a while though, but we'll do our best.
---Link to the 10YR stats we gathered.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f5o3dFpeH10v2kB-GDaJN8IfzrHfcgH_wk1Glk8TpGU/edit#gid=0
EDITS: Kobe's slide at the end says he has 9 1st Team All-NBA appearances, but its actually 8, and thats why its not highlighted green. Kobe was not First Team in the 04-05 season.
dude this is the most obvious attempt to make jordan look good😂💀 it’s so blatantly obvious it’s funny
Obviously its gonna make Jordan look good (and I play into that at the end of the video) but Kobe is my favorite, so if I'm gonna show bias, its towards him. I think the best part about a video like this, is that it puts a spotlight on great players who had shorter careers. Alvin Robertson for example is a guy that almost nobody talks about anymore, but he shoots to the top on this video, and maybe that will help him get some recognition
We did take ABA seasons into account on the Master list, I would just obviously put a mental asterisk by it. If I'm remembering correctly, I didn't talk about any ABA players in the video, partially because I thought the comparison wasn't fair.
Do a top 10 all-time college players in basketball
Now that I see your editors note in the comments and checked the stat for myself it was only 8. But he shoulda got 2 MVPs minimum in his career. Nash shouldn't have got 2.
" no seasons under 50 games"
Kawhi: 😐
😂😂😂😂😂
@@derrick5380 lmaooo
Hahahaha!
that's why he is not on the list
tbf that would still probably his facial expression even if he is proclaimed the GOAT.
The fact that Wilt and Jordan scored over 25k points in just 10 seasons is insane.
If Jordan continued for another 10 he might’ve peaked 38k cuz his 15th season he averaged 20 and continue the declination it will probably be 3k more
@@aliciasplaytime6905it’d probably be more due to the fact that both times that he retired, he went out of basketball shape. He also averaged 30 ppg with the wizards until his knee injury, which probably wouldn't happen if he was healthy
@@aliciasplaytime6905 Jordan would average 25+ if he played more seasons
@@aliciasplaytime6905 add in the fact that he missed 60+ games in '85-'86 & '94-'95, then it's even more insane...
@@aliciasplaytime6905 imagine he didnt retire for baseball and after the last dance
The most UNDERRATED NBA UA-camr in the game no question!!!
Bryan Ryder It really is. I was thinking the same thing. Nothing wrong with showing a little bit of respect my man.
AGREED
You mean slowest talker
@@kobebryantthanosstopper5077 agree to disagree
For sure. Very underrated.
It’s actually incredible that Barkley was a 6’6 Powerforward that played in a physical league when big men were “big men” but he still dominated despite being undersized.
It would shock even more that Chuck was actually closer to 6'4" than 6'6"
Real shit Chuck is closer to like 6'4 and a half, closer to 6'5" in shoes. Just goes to show how much of a beast he was on the boards
@@jeptime657 He's 6'5".
Just as AI is only 5'10"!
Charles is the best PF and should be considered in the goat discussion too. Its and individual accolade, why all those nine are in great teams that win? If Jordan should play in New Jersey, and never win anything, would we will talking about him?
You’ve done a lot of research. Congratulations on releasing this video!
Thanks Daniel! My friend Lizzie helped a lot too :) Appreciate you watching
Daniel Ally Lebron vs KD best 10 years :
2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1
2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7
2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0
2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1
2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0
2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4
2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2
2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1
2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4
2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0
2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8
Lebron win 6 times vs KD 5 and he scored 23259 wich would put him in the 3rd place. So this guy just didnt took lebron's best season.
Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD.
So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 if we take their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
@@jonnyarnett you forgot to highlight kobe 9 first team all defense
@@marqueljohnson4211 thanks man. My mistake was actually not the fact that it wasn’t green, but it’s that it said 9 instead of 8. Kobe was 2nd team in 01, and he didn’t make a team in 05, therefore giving him 8 First Team appearances in that 10 year stretch
@@jonnyarnett thank you for the clarification and the reply I genuinely love your content. I respect How unbiased you are and Pay homage to The forgotten greats.
This is Jordan's domain. Man built his legacy in basically 8-9 seasons 87-93 & 96-98. GOAT
84-90??
I'd love to see a 7 year version though - which is where Larry Bird would shine a LOT harder.
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA This narrative again? What about when LEBRON + WADE + BOSH went against 1 Dirk and lost? Yeah.
And the Jazz were actually favored to win the title in those later years. They were beating stacked teams like the Shaq-Kobe-Exel-Eddie Lakers and Duncan-Robinson Spurs. Also, the Sonics were underdogs because they were going against 72-10 Jordan.
I repeat best 10 year stretch of any NBA player ever. Lebron still top 4-5 all time though
@@bricefleckenstein9666 Also his 3 straight MVPs could be good for a 3 year version.
Louie Paolo Lumanglas Facts
So basically, no matter how you slice it, MJ is the best. Sounds right to me.
@Ben Hood not Lebron isn't top ten bud
JosephandBrandi Sanchez ok sure dumbass😂
JosephandBrandi Sanchez hes top 6 but that's all
Frogy Parra most agree he’s top 5, many think he’s top three.
@@bsanchez0626 shut up you're high he's clearly top 10
Jordan is still the GOAT.
Daniel Ally Lebron vs KD best 10 years :
2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1
2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7
2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0
2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1
2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0
2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4
2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2
2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1
2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4
2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0
2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8
Lebron win 6 times vs KD 5 and he scored 23259 wich would put him in the 3rd place. So this guy just didnt took lebron's best season.
Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD.
So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 if we take their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
Nigga if he only had a 10 year he would not be the goat
Stfu and stick to what you do you have no knoledge
Wilt is
@@cavs6663 says the one who cant spell
I remember after Jordan’s first three titles he was being called the GOAT, but some people had arguments for other players. After he came back and won three more he definitely proved he was the GOAT
I remember after MJ’s first retirement, many people thought Magic was better. After Jordan came back & won three more chips it was case closed.
He was concidered the GOAT after his first title lol
...not by anyone who knew anything about basketball
I was a kid during his first three-peat and remembering all the other players and coaches in interviews calling him the greatest every. The second name I remember being considered the most other than Michael was Wilt. Nobody hardly brings him up much these days.
@@brianelam9297 It's a bit of a shame that we've let rings take up so much of the conversation. That is so much more random than anyone realizes. Even the weird jargon of calling it a "chip" as if it's just a line on a resume instead of an accomplishment for a whole organization just speaks to how silly the whole thing is. Dinging a force of nature like Chamberlain for "only" winning 2 championships is more evidence in that direction.
"He's the best athlete - he's one of the best competitors - he's one of the most skilled players, and that, to me, makes him the best basketball player that I've ever seen play." - Bobby Knight, 1984, before MJ even played 1 second in the NBA.
And if Jordan played currently, he’d do what is needed to be the greatest now. That’s why the hall of famers he played with feared him.
Jordan won his 6 titles and GOAT status in only 11 full seasons at the Bulls.
SK Audio Visual 13*, 15 if you count the wizard years, stop spreading fake news cnn
@@ValdoMorais Ohh come on, every knows the Wizard years don't count !
@@ValdoMorais How in the good hell did you misread that sentence?!?
Valdo Morais he said 11 FULL seasons, yes jordan played 13 seasons for the bulls but he was injured in 85 and retired to play baseball in 94
Valdo Morais 11 sir injured year 2 (18 games) and came back from retirement and played 17 games and the Wizards years don’t count
That was a dope Jordan/Thanos pic at the end...i want a poster like that!
You, sir, know your basketball history! Thanks for spotlighting guys like Bob Pettit, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West and Oscar Robertson and for verifying the greatness of guys who are famous but not quite respected enough like John Stockton and Charles Barkley and Moses Malone, while introducing younger fans to unfamiliar great players like Jerry Lucas and Nate Thurmond and Elvin Hayes and Alvin Robertson. For somebody middle-aged like me, I get frustrated when stars I read about when I was a kid like Bob Pettit are completely forgotten, while players I actually watched like Kareem and Magic and Bird are no longer given the credit they deserve. There WAS great basketball being played before MJ and then Kobe and then LeBron came to the league.
Among the UA-camrs purring up sports videos, you are DEFINITELY in the running for GOAT!
I swear to god you read my mind with the "Where's Dennis Rodman?" thing....lol
Me too! Until I realized that a lot of his years are cut like for example 1995. I think rodman recorded the highest rebound% in nba history at that time but only played 47 games.
@@kingdinodragonite3470 Yeah, when he brought up how he had a lot of seasons under 50 games played, that was an "Ahh" moment for me.
david martinez I was thinking the same thing myself!!! But Jonny knew this when he was making this episode!!! How wouldn’t he since the majority of people in this channel are NBA fans who are knowledgeable when it comes to basketball which means that we all knew that Rodman led the league in rebounding seven straight years in a row on three different teams!!!
david Martinez I was about say: worm?
Looks like his standing on this list depends on which 10 years are picked. If it's the years from 87-88 to 96-97, then he's at 9992 rebounds. If it's from 88-89 to 97-98, then he's at 10478 rebounds (and therefore 3rd on the non-60s list). I think a valid case could be made for either 10 year span.
This is actually how you would do a case study. You take a sample size that puts everyone on an even playing field.
there are still arguments regarding whether some players played on a stacked era or not but regardless this is a more or less accurate representation of GOAT list.
It just doesnt't work considering longevity is the most important athletic factor and not ever
yone is built to last.
Jordan is ideal for these kinds of comparisons because he built his whole legacy in about 8 years,but someone like Stockton,who should be lauded for missing only 22 games in 20 bloody years,would look underwhelming compared to what he actually was as a player.
Blackeesh longevity is definitely not the most important factor but it is a factor
@Salvador Luna lonegvity in lebrons case means 17 years of 27 7 7 play,in stocktons case it's 18 years as a top 2/3 pg in the league,there is always context to be considered.
vince carter is an example of just barely staying good enough to make the league each year.
@Salvador Luna where did i imply the GOAT wasn't an athletic freak?
I said he is ideal for isolating a 10 year stretch because he doesn't gain much by adding more years on top of his reigning decade. While players like stockton benefit greatly.
Its insane that no matter how you represent the stats Jordan is always still in the goat conversation.
Yes.....if you just ignore Russell's 11 titles in 13 years, coaching 2 of them as a starter including all 8 of his first 8 seasons. Yeah. You'd be right on point
@@tlcall9645 you dont have to ignore it. The next best championship run would be Jordan's 6 of 8. Undefeated in the finals. Still in the goat conversation
@@Triggy6825 what are you 13? Sam Jones has 10 rings. Havlichek has 9. KC Jones has 8 as a player, 3 as a coach. Horry has 7. Cousy, Kareem, Jordan and pippen have 6. Know what you're talkin about lil dude b4 you counterpoint. FOH
Who of those are in talks of Goat above MJ? Kareem would be next. But if we're talking championship rings performance, Russell, kareem and none of the others you listed can stand alongside Jordan.
@@Triggy6825Bill Russell. First ten years.....9 Rings. END OF CONVERSATION 👋 👋 👋 👋 👋
I watched ball from before Magic, interest peaking in late 80's - late 90's[ about a 10 year span lol ]
Watched Jordan knock my Cavs out 5x, hated him, hated the over-promotion and preferential treatment from the refs and the league office with rule 'adjustments', but in the end, hatred or not, I was forced to admit he was the best I saw. He was basketball's Babe Ruth. Babe was an offensive nightmare and a GREAT pitcher, MJ, a double threat as a lockdown defender...here's how good MJ was on D: that same damn tired AI crossover where he loses position briefly and STILL contests is replayed a billion times, as if he fell over like Dominique did vs Brd
Your a very intelligent person. Lol you've seen what I've been telling folks for years, even tho AI did cross mike he dam near recovered and blocked it.99% of these dummy's dont realize that. Mj for ever.
Porkfrog great point I always thought that Jordan didn't stumble or fall a.i. was just quicker than Jordan at that time in their careers.. btw Iverson is another level quick tho
Does rod Woodson suck cuz Barry Sanders juked him? Does a tackle in football in the 80's bad cause L.T. ran thru him to get a sack?? Nope so just because A.I. did a crossover that's damn near illegal doesn't really mean M.J. got shook it was just he knew what he was going to do and jordan was reacting to what a.i. was doing...
@@tonsthebeast6773 Iverson's handles were among the best all-time...how else do you explain a 6 footer living in the paint? People couldn't guard him--shit, a 15 foot jumper is a WIN vs that guy. He was-and I know this will annoy many-Isiah 2.0...Both are severely underrated and destined to stay that way, despite Isiah's chips and the single greatest 4th quarter in Finals history
As far as Woodson/Sanders...HE LITERALLY 'BROKE HIS ANKLES'. He injured him WITH FAKES, NO CONTACT...one the most amazing things I've ever seen in any sport
as far as greats, every great in basketball has been beaten by a great...Jordan was schooled too, just very rarely off the dribble. the aforementioned Isiah was bleeped when asked about the first time he saw rookie Jordan's quickness: his response: OH SHIT!
Jordan himself, to his great credit, admitted in a quote I use all the time: 'I had to learn what it takes to win in this league from guys like Bird and Magic'.
There are multiple clips of guys falling not only for, but FROM, Bird's fakes...Bird had handles, but of course not elite, but as a triple threat, he broke ankles. There's even a vid on here like 'Bird breaking your grandpa's ankles'
But Jordan, while biting on those fakes and getting schooled, was learning and adapting...only a guy who watched his whole career could understand that while impossibly gifted, what made MJ the best was his constant evolving, in the 80's, no one could stay with him to save their life, but his outside shot was terrible, his threes were 50% the league AVERAGE. Later he bulked up to beat the Pistons, later he becomes solid from outside, sometimes spectacular, and he develops a post game and a Bird-like fadeaway?
GTFOOH...who EVER evolved their game like MJ did? That and that D makes him the best I saw
A.I. was simply quicker.. MJ did not lost his balance or anything.. I hated MJ too when he pushed Russel before hitting "the shot" and beat the Jazz.. but when he returned from his 2nd retirement and played for the wizards for 2 seasons as a 40 yr old and still dominating most of the time, that made me appreciate his game more than when he and the bulls were unstopabulls..
Let's be real here. Russell would have won at least 6 Finals MVPs during his 8 titles. He would've won at least 2 DPOY too. That alone immediately puts Russell at 4 and MJ at 7.
Russell would have made the all defensive team 9 or all 10 years (if ten Jordan loses another point). Russell or Wilt would win blocks and blocks per game too. Let's say Russell makes 9 defensive teams (MJ keeps his via tie) and Russell or Wilt will get the blocks/BPG category. (Kareem loses 2 points here for his block titles and bpg and Russell/Wilt gains the blocks and bpg category).
New rankings:
Jordan: 6-7
Russell: 5-7
Wilt: 5-7
Magic: 4
Kareem: 2
Everyone else
cubfan135 OMG its CubFan？！？！We need more hermitcraft
you are the last person i would expect to comment on this video
wilt all day everyday
Im surprised to see you here cub
cubfan u a basketball fan
Excellent video Jonny! So much thought and effort put into this.
Lebron vs KD best 10 years :
2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1
2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7
2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0
2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1
2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0
2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4
2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2
2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1
2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4
2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0
2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8
Lebron win 6 times vs KD 5 and he scored 23259 wich would put him in the 3rd place. So this guy just didnt took lebron's best season.
Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD.
So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 if we take their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
Yes. Make a 5 years stretch as well please.
I have a feeling MJ is still going to be on top 😂😂
stretch*
Jordan's best years, 87-92.
2 rings, 2 Finals MVPs, 3 MVPs, 5 scoring titles, 2 steals titles, 1 DPOY.
@@sundigest1121 it' s corrected :)
Artur Rohwein GG HARDEN AND JORDAN
I think Jordan will still be goat
Some people just don't understand how much more he demanded out of his teammates. If you could handle Jordan talkin shit to you then you couldn't handle the finals. 🤷♂️😎🤣😂
Lebrick and saved by He Got Game would rather pass the ball to you.
@@domepiecemcgrill3896 its a team game
TKD did Jordan ever claim otherwise?
he’s done a lot more in 10 years than most have done in 15, if anything he’d be way more ahead of everybody else than he already is
@@kingDrAgOnZoRdS that's my point exactly. You'd rather have the guy that preaches that.
I'd rather play with that guy that already knows that. Kinda like why we talking about this again we came to practice and we're professionals. 🤣
I'll kick your butt if you talk to me about the obvious again. Give me that guy to play with real talk. He's gonna get more out of you than you thought yourself.
This video is excellent. The concept is simple but interesting and unique and the whole thing is executed really well and thoroughly. I gained new perspective on a number of players.
I hope you do a whole series - 2yr, 3yr, 4yr etc. I’d watch them all.
Thanks
Wow incredibly unique perspective. Some of the best quarantine content I’ve seen thus far. Thank u Jonny!!
Hey, Jonny, the Tim Duncan MVP season was during the lowest percentage shooting since the 1960s (some years in the 60's people shot better) younger people especially discredit the poor efficiency without taking in context the combination of zones and hand checking. Tim Duncan, for example, shot 7 percent better from the field during the 2003-2004 season which is about the same as Barkley's 10-year peak if you take his 1986 to 1996 stat lines.
This is corny best 10 year..kobe 5 ring in first ten years as starter.
@@ultimatehoopz He wrote "ten years AS A STARTER". And don't offend people.
I wanna know where Duncan stands on your all time list
@@SalRubino82 I have tied with Kobe and Wilt at 5. If he would have beaten the heat in 2013 I would put him at two.
MJ
Bron
Kareem
Magic
Wilt/Kobe/Duncan
I have no idea how I found your channel but I’m glad I did. Keep up the good work
After all the crunching stats JORDAN STILL COMES OUT BEING THE GOAT.
(Added thought:) I wonder if folks compare baseball era's like they do basketball? Some folks say Mickey Mantle the greatest baseball player. I have no idea how to rank baseball players.
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA Well Wilt, you're just about the only person who could say that with some near-unarguable credibility.
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA based on the numbers dude just crunched in this video... still comes out in a 10 year period Jordan GOAT. But I do feel wilt Chamberlain stats are insane BUT WHY HE COULDN'T WIN with those insane CONSISTENT GAMES WITH THOSE NUMBERS is insane, but its team sport. Your looking at a man over 7ft vs a 6.6 man. Think about it. A smaller guy still averaging 30 something like gigantic man. My goat finishes what he starts once he got over the failing hump, your goat can't finish
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA if you can't figure out how to win being that dominant, I don't know man, but that's failing to me. Then Wilt needed help to win his first championship.... JUST LIKE JORDAN NEEDED ANOTHER SCORER aggressive like himself. It's a team sport man. But Wilt appears to be the greatest physically dominant athlete... but he still couldn't figure out how to win.
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA Shaq is a center. Mailman is a Forward. MJ23 a G. Bill Belichick just yelled at you...KNOW YOUR POSITION! PLAY YOUR ROLE.
@@MadSUPANOVA Wilt had to go against a Celtics team with 5 hall-of-famers. How many titles would Jordan win if he had to go against 5 hall-of-famers? ZERO
Also, this 10-year measure used at the very end of this video is VERY biased towards anyone after the 1970's. Bill and Wilt would've DEFINITELY had the most blocks, BPG, DPOY, blocks titles, and all-defensive teams.
Dr. J's best years were in the ABA
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA who said they didn't matter?
He ok
@Anderson Bastien he on abt a half a kilo of columbian cocaine
@Anderson Bastien But hes not wrong, Dr j saved the nba and the nba gives the credit to bird and johnson even though erving came to the sixers in 77 and IMMEDIATELY won mvp even though he was at the tail end of his prime.
@Cyber Bully Gus Johnson, Connie Hawkins, Elgin Baylor
every so often i come back to this video. hats off to you bro.
This is one of the best videos on nba GOAT talk I’ve ever seen. It levels the playing field regardless of era or injury in a logical way. Good job 👌🏾
..aand YET ANOTHER on the list of amazingly argumented videos about why Jordan is statistically easily the GOAT.
Yet the fabricated "debate" somehow still also grows.
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA No they couldn't. Occasional help defense doesn't mean they could defend perimeter players. They were great but get real.
Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA: you are an idiot😂 commenting on every post about MJ to rant
Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA LMAO at Wilts pathetic 22ppg Career playoff average and his 18ppg career Finals average..
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA can Shaq defend Jordan? U wanna talk about Jan 13, 1993 when Jordan with a hurt wrist dropped 64 points, 6 rebs and 5 steals versus Shaqs Orlando Magic?
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA that narrative is SO ludicrous it's laughable. NBA didn't change rules to help MJ. They changed it because the NBA wanted to grow its brand & expand globally, hence u seen the 1992 Dream Team. U seem to be to old to be this biased towards a player & following fake news
I think Julius Erving “Dr J” would get more credit if his ABA stats counted.
They shouldn’t count because he wasn’t playing against the best competition
@@ibelieveicansoar You mean like Dan Issel, David Thompson, Artist Gilmore, Moses George Gervin, Rick Barry, Moses Malone Malone, Billy Cunningham, Louie Dampier, Mel Daniels, Connie Hawkins, Spencer Haywood, Maurice Lucas, George McGinnis, Doug Moe, Bobby Jones, Roger Brown, Charlie Scott, Zelmo Beaty, etc Etc ETC and other notable ABA Players who are in the NBA HOF? FOH
@@tlcall9645 good call
Dr. J is way too disrespected
Terrell Callahan plus, monix and jackie moon right?
Really loved this!
I have been day dreaming about this topic for years!
I have wondered when a player was hot and on fire how they ranked against each other through the decades.
I would really like to see a 3YR one if you could.
Just to see how the samples we witnessed from Derrick Rose, Gilbert Arenas, Brandon Roy, TMac, stack up. I feel like over the years certain players have been so hot they seemed like the next goat only to have they’re career cut short.
I really like the ideas of comparing players when they’re hot, vs total numbers accrued.
Remember when Kevin love was the Man with the timberwolves? How does his best 3 years stack against Kobe’s best 3? Probably closer than people would think! Really really like this train of thought and the video! Put years of daydreaming into perspective.
It's funny you mention Pettit because I was reading an old stats book and was amazed at how many all NBA teams he made. Then I watched a Bill Russell interview and he mentioned Pettit as one of the greatest he's ever faced.
So Jordan is the GOAT
Wish he played in this era made for high scoring
I wish he played in this era so people can see an example of a high-scoring guard who doesn't need to shoot 10 to 20 3-pointers a game to avg 25-30 points.
Lan B Jr. right. His efficiency was unmatched. Imagine now that you literally can’t touch him lol
50ppg...And that's what almost all experts and almost all former NBA players say that he would get so many points. At least 45, but probably 50 points every single night or game.
Example: in the 90s, i.e. in the complete decade, there were only two players who had more than 30 points per game over a complete season. And one was Michael Jordan who I think achieved 7 times and the other time was Malone
And now, every season, an average of 3 to 5 players get over 30 points per game in the season, so more people in one season got 30 points per game than they did in a decade.
Lebron vs KD best 10 years :
2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1
2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7
2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0
2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1
2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0
2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4
2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2
2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1
2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4
2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0
2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8
Lebron win 6 times vs KD 5 and he scored 23259 wich would put him in the 3rd place. So this guy just didnt took lebron's best season.
Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD.
So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 if we take their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
What’s even crazier is most people don’t talk about how I’d he played in this era that would mean he’d more then likely have a much better shoot especially from 3 given the advancements in training and technology.
Jonny! You are killing it! Excellent objective video! Best regards and thanks!
- His "janky" 10-year GOAT list is how I would envision it: JORDAN >>> Wilt >> Magic-Kareem > Russell.
Great video bro, your underrated
Great video, really enjoyed it Mate
Thanks friend! Stay safe out there.
So much work goes into your videos. That’s why the least I can do is hit the like button. Love your videos. I’m a big fan.
Excellent video. Truly respect your effort, hard work, & dedication to the history of the game. I've been an NBA fan since '65 (I'm 68), so I really appreciate this video. Your mentions of Oscar, Baylor, English, & Moses were especially enjoyable to me. Keep up the good work. P.S: looking forward to "how good was he" videos on Oscar, Bob McAdoo & Alex English (the '80's highest scoring player).
Thanks Sid! That compliment means a lot, especially from a gentleman like yourself who's witnessed many of the players I talk about. Hope to do Bob McAdoo at some point. Younger generations definitely aren't aware of him. I have done videos on Oscar Robertson ua-cam.com/video/Lrninrezp1s/v-deo.html and Alex English ua-cam.com/video/-FchaIPKtgw/v-deo.html.
They're much older videos of mine, so the quality probably isn't as good, but you may still enjoy them!
Youre so underrated
You're*
Compared to what?
That's because he tells the truth. People prefer narratives, not the truth!
I wish people like him would be called up to ESPN and FSN instead of these celebrities how only casually know basketball.
Rayene Boussetta are you really gonna correct the man on the apostrophe? You fuck
Easily my favorite vid. This was awesome. I'd love to see a 5 year span. I'm sure we'd have some current players like harden and russ in the mix
I'd like to add to my wish list of elvin Hayes, sam Cassel and the admiral...possibly adrian dantley as one of the most underappreciated scorers in nba history
Sam Cassel??? Huh lmao!
most underrated basketball vid on UA-cam right here.
I wish sports media would do a special on this topic as is. This is the most objective way I have seen to measure each player's greatness.
Nicely done. It's interesting to see the numbers arranged differently and with different emphasis. Makes for some interesting re-thinking.
West would be up there in steals and he also blocked an insane amount of shots for a guard. Usually dropping down and blocking Frontline guys from behind.
Absolutely! Could have mentioned that
Wilt couldn't guard Lucas or Cowens outside. How is going to be able to guard a top flight guard. Didn't Geoff Petrie win the NBA one on one competition.?
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA LMAO, you think Wilt could've guarded Steph, AI, Isiah outside? Stop smoking drugs, B.
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA Horry was never star of his own team. Stop it
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA Jordan's opponents were underdogs because they were playing Jordan. They wouldn't have been underdogs playing anyone else.
I think this is the best video I've seen yet talking about the goat discussion. And while I don't think he is contending, it would make sense to include Oscar in the GOAT comparison to have a round of 10. Also nice to highlight the stats of Barkley and Moses - I would love to also see those of Hakeem, Shaq and DWade - maybe Hakeem or Shaq are relevant for the 10 best as well.
P.2x.U Lebron vs KD best 10 years :
2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1
2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7
2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0
2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1
2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0
2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4
2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2
2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1
2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4
2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0
2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8
Lebron scored 21 516 in these 10 season so he would be right after Kobe in the 8th place. So again all these stats doesnt really mean anything because Lebron was more consistent, and also had a 56% true shooting in 2012 and 2013, KD never had more than 53.
Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD.
So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 and scored more points in their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
People forget what a beast Barkley was, he was the most efficient PF in history, second all time in 2 pt fg% of all the top 50 scorers, second only to Shaq, plus he was an insane rebounder.
MJ would still be #1
@M3ŘĶ Yeah, 37 year old Paul arizin. That team was mediocre
@jocriss The '67 76ers was Wilt's only team which was as strong as the Celtics and they destroyed them in the Playoffs. The warriors were quite trash, Wilt had to score 50 every other game just to keep them in the Playoffs. Even on the Lakers, He had only West. Baylor was old af
Curry
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA I don't agree with him either but no need to get triggered
Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA you going to post this to everyone who says rightfully that Jordan is the GOAT????
Great video as per usual!
Quickly, the video finishes stating Kb has no green categories but has equal all 1st teams at 9 with other players who are green highlighted - not sure if that was missed.
Also did you calculate winning category(s) to objectively rank 1-9? Does this take total accolades and stats into account? E.g., number of 2nd, 3rd place finishes etc.
Love your work
Love this video…
I would love to see an updated video on this topic.
Great work as usual.
What a superb video, from concept through deployment! Man, I do so enjoy your 'stuff'. How the hell do you have so few subs??????
yeah, sick of youtubers who are all hot air like korzemba, rusty buckets and RB the breakthrough
I've been telling people for years that the numbers don't tell the full story.
@Salvador Luna who are you talking to? Are you aware of illegal defence being removed? I wouldn't compare MJ and Lebron they're just too different. Lebron plays in a post hand check, post illegal defence era. It didn't make the NBA soft it actually makes scoring harder. MJ is a shooting guard it's not his job to make plays. Lebron is a point guard he might not score as much but he elevates his teamua-cam.com/video/ydOUbQqYb30/v-deo.html
@Salvador Luna i mean people who know him will probably die in the next 5 years, ok boomer
Salvador Luna Lebron vs KD best 10 years :
2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1
2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7
2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0
2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1
2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0
2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4
2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2
2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1
2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4
2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0
2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8
Lebron win 6 times vs KD 5 and he scored 23259 wich would put him in the 3rd place. So this guy just didnt took lebron's best season.
Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD.
So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 if we take their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
@@johnmedina7083 You can't be serious that the modern game makes scoring harder. Just look at the goddamned stats. It's like the steroid era in baseball.
Your so underrated bro, but just wanted to say that kobe was also a 9 time all NBA however you didnt mark it green (not that it matters😅)
Thanks man. I messed up, but not in the way you think. The color is correct, Kobe just had 8 and NOT 9. He wasn't First Team in 04-05
he was injured 2005, man so 8
@@jonnyarnett I think Kareem's block totals is not green even though he has the highest. Does that count?
@@jonnyarnett Do a 5YR. You'll be climbing that ladder with more amazing work.
@@jonnyarnett
MJ was on All-NBA First Team in each of his 10 prime seasons:
1. 86/87 - 82 games
2. 87/88 - 82
3. 88/89 - 81
4. 89/90 - 82
5. 90/91 - 82
6. 91/92 - 80
7. 92/93 - 78
8. 95/96 - 82
9. 96/97 - 82
10. 97/98 -82
10 prime MJ's seasons. In each of them he was selected to All-NBA First Team. I think it's clear - and there's a mistake in the video. 10 times in a row All-NBA First Team for MJ - if we count consecutive 10 prime seasons over 50 games each season.
The only other MJ's season in Bulls' uniform with more than 50 games was his rookie season 84/85, when he was selected to All-NBA Second Team.
In 85/86 he played 18 games, in 94/95 he played 17 games, in 93/94 he didn't play at all.
So MJ holds this record by himself only.
I’ve been looking forward to this video and it didn’t disappoint. I’d be totally down for the five year stats too. Great work.
Shannon Sharpe should watch this.
Tag it and send it to him!
@Michael T 🤣🤣🤣 he would still argue to his suffocation. He's got to have the Bron pie falling.
Lebron vs KD best 10 years :
2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1
2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7
2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0
2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1
2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0
2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4
2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2
2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1
2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4
2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0
2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8
Lebron win 6 times vs KD 5 and he scored 23259 wich would put him in the 3rd place. So this guy just didnt took lebron's best season.
Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD.
So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 if we take their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
Onsongo Isaiah Because this video is bs
@@Anthonydu01630 same way he manipulated numbers is the same way you have done we can crunch numbers all we want. It really just comes down to the game itself. Who was that player that was just different from the rest and to me that is mu hands down
This is the best video you’ve made. I’d love to see more about Kareem, Russell, and Wilt. For example, if DPOY had been awarded, who might have been given that award? Or would it have been someone else? Also: a video about who the GOAT is based on the data you’ve collected that doesn’t filter for your GOAT picks. Lotsa work. If you need help I’d be happy to oblige, but would need some direction! Thank for this.
If DPOY existed for all of Bill's career, he'd likely have at least 5 and SERIOUSLY might have 10+ of them.
SAME on Finals MVP - but he got the "we're going to name the award after you" consolation prize THERE.
Bill CREATED the center that was a defensive monster (though to be fair, Wilt was no slouch in that department, but was overshadowed by his insane OFFENSIVE numbers).
@@bricefleckenstein9666 I agree and think Wilt would have multiple DPOY awards..probably 67 and after When Russ was older and retired
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA Wilt Chamberlain was a choker whose production dipped in the playoffs. Imagine having 30ppg in regular season to 22ppg in the playoffs. Its almost pathetic.
My man, spend his time and effort for our entertainment. You’ve deserved my big fat subscribe and like from my other account.
I'll Shiv you. Lebron vs KD best 10 years :
2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1
2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7
2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0
2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1
2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0
2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4
2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2
2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1
2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4
2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0
2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8
Lebron scored 21 516 in these 10 season so he would be right after Kobe in the 8th place. So again all these stats doesnt really mean anything because Lebron was more consistent, and also had a 56% true shooting in 2012 and 2013, KD never had more than 53.
Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD.
So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 and scored more points in their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
Phenomenal video my friend.. you are an outstanding content creator!!
Damn my man finally pulled through I've been waiting on this one 🙏🙏🙏
Wow excellent! Great work! I guess you gotta give it to MJ. Didn't realize Oscar Robertson was that good!
@Michael T I've always heard about these legends when i was a kid but i never knew how great they actually were. These old players were for real!
It'd be great if you could do this for the playoffs as well.
Still MJ on top
you are an amazing youtuber Sir!!!
Well done! Love that unique perspective. Brought everyone's accomplishments to a common level and created more of an apples to apples comparison.
Thanks for putting the work in Jonny👏🏻
how come Kobe's 9 all NBA first teams made isn't green? he would be tied with all the rest who had 9 or more and he'd rank with the other GOATs who had 1 green category
MJ was on All-NBA First Team in each of his 10 prime seasons:
1. 86/87 - 82 games
2. 87/88 - 82
3. 88/89 - 81
4. 89/90 - 82
5. 90/91 - 82
6. 91/92 - 80
7. 92/93 - 78
8. 95/96 - 82
9. 96/97 - 82
10. 97/98 -82
10 prime MJ's seasons. In each of them he was selected to All-NBA First Team. I think it's clear - and there's a mistake in the video. 10 times in a row All-NBA First Team for MJ - if we count consecutive 10 prime seasons over 50 games each season.
The only other MJ's season in Bulls' uniform with more than 50 games was his rookie season 84/85, when he was selected to All-NBA Second Team.
In 85/86 he played 18 games, in 94/95 he played 17 games, in 93/94 he didn't play at all.
So MJ holds this record by himself only.
You missed that Kobe also had 9 First Team selections, and made him have 0 green-lighted stats. (even though you gave Bird, James and Duncan 1 for each, because of the stat).
@Ladh 70 Despite the fact that I didn't mention Jordan once in this comment, you randomly decide to comment about him. I am not sure how you can make the claim that 45% is bad FG% when Kobe dealt with injuries most of his career and played with a injured shooting finger for a decent amount of years. Also ignoring the fact that he broke his wrist early in his career, which affected his shooting as well. And, of course, the Achille's tendon injury, which made him a former shell of himself, which also hit his FG%. You probably didn't even watch him play, at least that's what I get from reading your comment.
@Ladh 70 Never claimed he wasn't. Wilt has nothing on MJ either. His accolades are nowhere close to MJ's.
@@GanDaiMe11 there's a call for you. Both grant hill and penny are on the other line
@@ohdaUtube Both of them got career ending injuries pretty early, so I am not sure what you mean. Kobe played through injuries that were not career ending, but that made his efficiency suffer.
@@GanDaiMe11 both of them also played hurt. Not nearly at the same level as before. The point is, luck is a big part of it. Injuries included
That was awesome! I like the way you did this!!!💯👊😎
Bro, what a work and what an idea! Great job!
the problem with jordan arc is that he never really played 10 straight years (94-95), which meant his years were handpicked giving him undue advantage.
Seems you missed kobe's 9 time first team. He should have 1 green stat.
Jordan was on 1st All-NBA Team in all those 10 prime seasons. So he holds this record by himself only.
Came here to point this out
@@marekwichniarek268 well, they gave lebron, duncan and bird a greenlight on that 9 all nba 1st team, so they shouldnt count as well..
great video, would love to do this type of content on my channel...your videos and channel are inspiring, I love the way you analyze the game...good job..
You missed Wilt's ASSIST title during his first Championship year with the 76ers.
Blocks title should be N/A for him AND Bill.
Yeah but that's offset by their inflated rebounding numbers
@@sundigest1121 Have you compared Bill and Wilt's rebounding numbers to their CONTEMPORARIES?
Yes, the pace inflated them some - but nobody else was even close IN THEIR OWN ERA for more than 1-2 years.
About the only one since that has a legit complaint MIGHT be Dennis Rodman in his BEST years - but the pace was NOT 50% higher to put him on a par with Wilt or Bill.
Wilt didn't win the Assist title. He led the league in Total assists, Not Assists per game. He had 8.6 APG but Oscar Robertson played less games and had 9.0 APG. Still an amazing achievement nonetheless. To lead the league in total assists as a center.
@@johnjackson9819 Point.
But also keep in mind it wasn't uncommon for him - he had 7.9 or 8.1 or something like that the year before, when he WASN'T actively trying for the title.
Uncommon for a big man to pull a lot of assists, bloody RARE for a center - even if he wasn't in Magic's range or even Larry Bird's.
@@johnjackson9819
He did win the Assist Title in 1968.
The awards were given on totals and not per game.
"If blocks had been counted Wilt and Russell would be in the mix." That's an understatement if I've ever heard one. Wilt likely averaged over 10 blocks a game for his career. Russell around 6-7. Wilt would have about as many blocks for his career as the entire rest of the 10 yr top 5 combined.
Can't believe I missed this one when it came out, this is one of your best videos.
amazing video.
is it just me or lebron is out of the goat discussion when longevity is not considered?
More or less. He's versatile. If you favor versatility, he'd be somewhere in the mix with Robertson and Bird.
@@keithd2284 versatility is overrated with lebron if he cannot defend a position well
I guess but longevity is considered when talking about the GOAT conversation
Apparently so is Bird
@@NNOutBurger_Gaming longevity is rare but when u put a ton of care on your body ONLY to play one side of the possession, that's disingenuous, when you're built to be so much more physically imposing
Duncan's mvp season in 03 is very underrated. Note that the teams were averaging only around 80 points compared today where players are scoring 100 regularly.
Especially when you go deeper into the advanced stats and efficiency ratings. Duncan was the defensive anchor for all those championship teams, even after kawhi was brought into the fold.
That's why Kareem said Oscar was the best player he'd ever seen. The Big O needs more REC!
This was INCREDIBLE!!!
Nice work bro!
😎👍
Great video!! So glad to see Oscar Robertson get some attention!!!
If you did a player's best ten years, you would have to leave out at least two titles from Bill Russell's career no matter which ten-year stretch you use, including his rookie season due to playing less than 50 games.
Welp...
Leave out the first 2 - that LAST title with a beat-up worn down crew was THE most impressive.
@Wilt Chamberlain GOD of NBA Why do you think Chamberlain lost to Russell's Celtics all the time? And why do you think he finally won in 1967? The core team was similar for years and he had good teammates Hal Greer, Chet Walker, and Billy Cunningham. What changed?
Lebron vs KD best 10 years :
2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1
2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7
2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0
2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1
2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0
2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4
2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2
2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1
2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4
2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0
2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8
Lebron scored 21 516 in these 10 season so he would be right after Kobe in the 8th place. So again all these stats doesnt really mean anything because Lebron was more consistent, and also had a 56% true shooting in 2012 and 2013, KD never had more than 53.
Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD.
So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 and scored more points in their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
He only included 8 rings out of 11
Very interesting video! Also, is there a reason for the choices you made in which players you've chosen for your intro video?
Yeah, for sure! I wanted my channel to be about Basketball throughout history, and a love for the game. Kobe is my favorite player ever, so I'm including him, and Steph, Bron, and Jordan show the different eras. I wish I could include more eras/players, but that intro would be waaay too long. lol
Looking at Jordan's stat page reminds me I need to go mow the yard.
Villain - Lebron vs KD best 10 years :
2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1
2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7
2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0
2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1
2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0
2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4
2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2
2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1
2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4
2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0
2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8
Lebron scored 21 516 in these 10 season so he would be right after Kobe in the 8th place. So again all these stats doesnt really mean anything because Lebron was more consistent, and also had a 56% true shooting in 2012 and 2013, KD never had more than 53.
Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD.
So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 and scored more points in their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
Cracking video, respect for the time & effort it took putting everything together.
This is slowly becoming one of my favorite channels your ideas are creative and I haven’t seen any other basketball you tubers come up with the ideas you have
Thank you for this one. This really is a great perspective. I particularly enjoyed you spotlighting Barkley with the Duncan comparison; too many people just discount Chuck (and Malone) because they didn't win rings; meanwhile, Duncan's 5 rings all came without a Michael Jordan in their way. (not taking anything away from Duncan, he IS one of the greatest ever)
Yeah, guys who played in the 90s but not on the Bulls, or 60s but not on the Celtics, get a raw deal in terms of champion reputation. Especially West, Baylor, Barkley, Malone and so on.
Everybody know MJ the G.O.A.T.💯 #Truth
lol Kobe had 9 first teams like everybody else and u didnt highlight it
stat nerds bro
Dang I missed that that's messed up lol hopefully he sees your comment
Just a mistake
He need to see this comment 💯
Him and mike korzemba both crap on Kobe but try to hide it
Kobe actually had 8x First, 1x Second (2001) and 1x Third (2005) during that span, so he mistakenly put 9 first, which is probably why he didn't highlight it, the correct is 8x First.
This is not about basketball, this is just to thank you for making these videos. Stay safe in these difficult moments (coronavirus). You give us something else to think about and some sense of normalcy and joy to our lives at home, thank you.
The outcome was expected but not as lopsided as it turned out to be. This should put an end to all MJ vs LBJ debates for good.
Stats changed to 10 yr stats:
Lebron: Imma sit this out.
Kobe should be tied with Bird, LeBron and Duncan cause he also have 9 first team selections. You might have overlooked that 😂
I screwed up bro! I knew I would make at least one crucial typo. Smh. Kobe actually had 8 from 01-10, NOT 9. So its correct in the fact thats its not green, its just the wrong number. In case you're wondering, Kobe was not First Team in the 04-05 season.
Yeah, but this is a video about stats, not opinions, and the rest of Kobe’s stats in the 10yr preclude him from mention.
You gotta be kidding me, no Brian Scalabrine?
just shows how short and injury-riddled Larry Birds career actually was.
not that it wasnt at least partially his fault but i look forward to the 5 year one :)
great idea btw :)
Great video, I appreciate your analysis and time spent on putting together these videos.
Well, the good thing is that he shows that Stockton was legit. Now Rusty Bucket and The NBA Storyteller won’t like that one bit. You would think by the way they try to discredit him, that Stockton stole their wife or something...
Stockton was great at steals, but...
I'd like to nominate Grant Hill for the " How Good was he Category "
Great all around player, too bad his ankle problems robbed him of his prime years.
He could be there together with Penny Hardaway. Both such talented and we couldnt see their prime.
derrick rose
Absolutely! And in football, add Billy Simms
You did a great job and it only confirmed what we already know... that Jordan is the GOAT!!!
@M Pr nicely put and I agree with you about wilt as I've been schooling people on him for 10 years. He's the greatest Athlete ever. He ran track was NCAA high jump champ, was all world volleyball player, has super human strength, and a basketball HOF. He's no joke. My list is GOAT Jordan, magic, wilt, dream, Kobe/bird then lebron...
Lebron vs KD best 10 years :
2004 : 27.2 vs 2009 : 30.1
2005 : 31.4 vs 2010 : 27.7
2006 : 27.3 vs 2011 : 28.0
2007 : 30.0 vs 2012 : 28.1
2008 : 28.4 vs 2013 : 32.0
2009 : 29.7 vs 2014 : 25.4
2010 : 26.7 vs 2015 : 28.2
2011 : 27.1 vs 2016 : 25.1
2012 : 26.8 vs 2017 : 26.4
2013 : 27.1 vs 2018 : 26.0
2014 : 25.3 vs 2020 : 30.8
Lebron scored 21 516 in these 10 season so he would be right after Kobe in the 8th place. So again all these stats doesnt really mean anything because Lebron was more consistent, and also had a 56% true shooting in 2012 and 2013, KD never had more than 53.
Lebron is also a more well rounded player, he is a better playmaker and defender than KD.
So these stats mean nothing KD won 4 scoring titles, Lebron only 1 but Lebron beat him 6-5 and scored more points in their 10 best years. You see how we can manipulate numbers ???
Man,.you're the only one and first I have ever subscribed on UA-cam. Keep on making these amazing videos.
Dang, thanks! Means a ton! Thanks for supporting my channel :)
This is fantastic. Thank you for your hard work. All generations of fans should see this.
Based on 10 years, Wilt is miles ahead. Over 35 PPG, over 24 RPG. When the "5 Year" list happens, Wilt will have a 41 PPG avg. Just his 78 point, 43 rebound game should be enough to speak about who had the best prime years. Father Time ultimately beats everyone.
It is not all about stats, accolades fall into the mix and that’s where wilt falls very short
@@linorestrepolobo3620 Such as DPOY; did not exist for him, though since he is the leading shotblocker of all time, he would have won at least 5 times. The FMVP did not exist for most of his career [he won once], but he would also have won in 1967 had it existed. Hard to win regular season MVP every year when Russell is also in the league. How does Wilt NOT win it the season he averages 50? Lack of official blocked shot tally robs him of likely being the #2 Triple Double leader of all time, and being by far the leader in Quadruple Doubles. Besides the well-known stacked Celtics, the Knicks team Wilt's Lakers lost to in the 1973 finals had 5 players from the "NBA's 50" on it.
@@tunanorth a lot of ifs in your statement. You cannot be the GOAT if you don’t even dominate your era. He shared the spotlight with Bill. Once MJ started winning no one else ate and that’s because he was smart enough to adapt to a system. Before he started winning, MJs numbers were more ridiculous, take 88 for example, but he was wise enough to sacrifice his individual stats so he could win still putting up absurd numbers. He was at his best in the playoffs where wilts performances lacked tremendously. Wilt is an all time great, personally have him number 4 on my list but he is not on MJs stratosphere