And you should do a video like where you compare the evolution of each player type from across decades...like from bill Russell---to giannis Or from wilt chamberlain, to Artis Gilmore to (insert another finesse power big here)
I’d say that you could also add Jerry West to Steph…around the same height, unlimited range, AND elite off the ball movement (that was not in M.A.R.’s bag). I’d say that Jokic is closer to Bird than any player we’ve seen since…Bird and Joker are better passers and scorers than Walton, and have much better shooting ranges…Walton was a defender and shot blocker…in fact HE’S who AD should be compared to stylewise 🤷🏾♂️
@@fdub301 Oladipo had 3-point range, and played more like a point guard, facing the basket. D-Wade posted up more, and used floaters. That's a better comparison than most on the video, though.
@@penkima4923 Wade was literally the the pg early in his career. He had to develop his post game, just like Oladipo had to develop his 3 pointer. Both were athletically gifted rim runners early on with extremely similar play styles offensively and defensively. Vic literally modeled his game after DWade. Go somewhere & get yourself together.
People only compare Luka to Bird for visual reasons. They play nothing alike. Bird played faster and more offball, while Lukas as ball fominant as they come - dribbling the life out of the ball and setting up mid and long range options for himself and others via screen action ( ala Chris Paul). Defensively its not a comparison at all.
THANK YOU!!! I've been saying for years that Jokic is a modern-day Bill Walton! It should have been immediately obvious to all the people calling him "best passing big man ever" because this immediately comes with the comparison: "...reaching and surpassing the standard set by Bill Walton"
I understand the comparison with Walton and there is similarities but I actually think jokic is just a taller bird. He has the complete faciliting arsenal (especially the touch passes), the shooting, the back to the basket game, the efficiency, the attitude, the lack of athleticism and the intelligent defense.
@@Giannisette Very much agree. I see so much bird in jokic. Never thought i would see someone quite like bird again, but jokic is as close as it as we ever get
7:27 - 30 years later this is still one of the most 'wtf did he just do' moves in NBA history. I know Wiggins does this move semi-frequently, but still no where as smooth as Penny.
I feel like the a jokic and bird comparison could also work from a playmaking and shooting standpoint cuz bird wasn’t shooting tht high of shots but was also facilitating from the post and both use minimal athleticism to dominate
That’s the comparison I was thinking of. I remember hearing a story when the Nuggets were deciding between trading Jokic and Nurkic, where someone brought in the per 36 stats between Jokic and Bird and they were nearly identical
This is why i love johnny’s channel. Only guy on yt who’s actually seen enough basketball to be a more then credible source for this kinda thing. Typical W video
With LeBron I think it's hard to guess his prototype as I can think of at least 3 (Hill, Magic, Pip) but Pippen for me is the closest as LeBron did whatever Pip was doing and took it to another level except his lockdown defense.
I would argue that Elgin Baylor is a more apt prototype for Lebron. Elgin was incredibly athletic, strong, could score from anywhere, and was a better passer than King by far. It was always said you could never take your eye off Elgin because he would always find the open man, and put the ball right into the shooting pocket. Baylor was a high flyer, and an incredibly high iq player, who could score like almost nobody else.
@@cncaliguy09 I kinda get but Oscar is a guard and played like a guard. LeBron just isn't and doesn't. But watch Bird's games during the 3 MVP years and LeBron a very similar player.
Better passer than Lebron? There’s at best 5 guys who could say they’re better passers than Bron. There would be at least 50 players that I would name before Elgin Baylor in terms of passing
Thank you Jonny for this video! I love your comparisons of the players you mentioned for these reasons. I think we should look at modern players’ comparisons to the ones from the past as a result of play styles, their build, and their movement on the court.
They hyped booker to Kobe so bad and then when he failed to win a ring, they would diss the guy and say "you'll never be like Kobe" like wtf. They branded him like that and then call him out for not living to Kobe's standards. Absolutely pathetic. Mostly kobetards who loves him so much would compare someone who trained with Kobe and expect similar results.
Can we take a moment to APPRECIATE Jonny Arnett? No. Seriously. The quality of his analysis and comparisons are second to NONE. Another great video. Par excellence per usual sir.
That Joker / Walton comparison is one I never would have considered the other still it's pretty spot-on obviously minus the facts that Walton was a premier defensive player in his prime
You're on fire bro - keep up the great content! As far as comps to LBJ, though I like the Bernard King comp, I think the more accurate comp is Scottie Pippen. To me, if you look at their games, they are *very* similar - it's just that LeBron took his game to a whole nother level.
Some very interesting picks here. I think an underrated Jokic comparison would be Bird despite them playing different positions. Both are triple double threats, elite 3 level scorers, and both had the uncanny ability to casually hit the most ridiculous shots in your face against all odds. Both also love playmaking in the high post as well as being overlooked but smart defenders.
@@penkima4923 Bird definitely could be a primary ball handler too. I think his it was moreso his era/coaches that kept him from doing it on a regular basis
i think the best comparison for giannis is wilt because wilt was build like giannis and also had the speed and athletecism. I would take the more pass first wilt as giannis is also an ok passer.
In terms of body and athleticism, absolutely- although Wilt was taller, heavier, stronger, could jump higher, whereas Giannis is more agile with better footwork. But in terms of play style their only real comparison is the dipper shot, except Giannis does it on the run, fastbreak ability (although Wilt rarely showcased it as the ball handler), and their flying back on defense for blocks. The only two players to consistently just go right up over a guy and finger roll it in with a fully extended arm.
@luke8837 Orlando Shaq os a terrible comp. This idea that he would take the ball coast to coast is a total fantasy. Tiny Shaq was still a bruising low post bully ball player. He wasn't a slasher, he wasn't a ball handler, and he wasn't leading fast breaks consistently. He was a slightly less effective version of what he was in LA.
I think a better LeBron James comparison would have been young Grant Hill. A nightmare in transition, decent ball handler and facilitator. Hill was never the defender LeBron was in his prime but Hill wasn't a lot of things that LeBron was in his time. I think he is probably the closest comparison though.
I've always regarded LeBron as a mix between Karl Malone and Scottie Pippen. Grant Hill is a good comparison if you're talking just a single player but honestly Hill is a bit too light in the ass for me though I do see the similarities
@@penkima4923 That's absolutely incorrect. Go watch Malone. Their playing styles are very similar. Both were incredible players into their older years. Both were physically gifted over everyone around them. Plus I said a mixture of Malone and Scottie. So you have to take attributes from both of them
@@shermanrobinson1178 Setting picks was essential for Malone, while LeBron rarely sets picks. Post-up game was essential for Malone, while LeBron rarely posts up, especially if his shot is falling. Malone wasn't a primary ball-handler, unlike LeBron. Malone couldn't defend the perimeter, unlike LeBron. Nearly nothing in common.
Cool comparisons, Jonny! Durant and Nowitzki didn't immediately come to mind initially for me (as I focused more on how Durant has been on multiple teams whereas Dirk was solely in Dallas), but you're right - their styles are quite similar. I remember being in awe of how unstoppable Dirk was. As you mentioned, he had a great shot, could shoot over you if you had a faster but shorter player guard him, and could maneuver and drive past you if you had a big guy who was slower than him defend Dirk. I can see the same for Durant. I also concur that young Shaq is similar to Giannis. I remember seeing clips of him from the 90s and seeing how agile he was amazed me. So, I agree that Giannis is definitely very similar to him. Yeah, I didn't think that Bird was that great of a comparison for Luka. I like them both, but have seen Bird as a better defender and concur that their play styles. Penny is definitely a better comparison. Both are tall guards and I concur that their skillsets have many similarities. It was great to learn more about Walton. I learned a bit about him before, but it was cool getting to learn more about him here. I can see why he and Jokic are similar. Have a great day :).
Setting picks is a big part of Dirks game. While KD rarely sets picks. Dirk played in the post a lot, while KD rarely. Dirk played off the ball. KD plays a lot on the ball. It's a weak comparison. Giannis plays the primary ball-handler a lot. Shaq tried to lead fast breaks sometimes, and that ended up in Shaq turning the ball over more often than not. Giannis plays mostly face to the basket, while Shaq plays nearly solely back to basket. Giannis has a decent mid-range shot, while Shaq doesn't have mid-range game at all. Their prototypes are completely different. The difference in defense between Bird and Luka isn't too big. But Luka plays primary ball-handler, and Bird does not. And Luka plays in the perimeter, while Bird closer to the basket. Luka and Bird both rebound in power forward numbers. The comparison between Luka and Penny sounds great.
@@penkima4923 Thanks so much - I appreciate you sharing your thoughts about the comparisons. You make excellent points. I'm curious who you believe would be the best comparison for Shaq. Thanks again. Have a nice day.
@@alex4833 That's a tad unexpected response in a basketball debate. Nevertheless, there are a couple of names often thrown around, when the talk is about Shaq. Some of the talk is just the league front office trying to make up false narratives out of thin air. But the talk also has some truth to it. Shaq was said to be the most dominant player ever, when he three-peated. That's because the league front office always endorses the current player over historical players, to generate more revenue. Actually Wilt Chamberlain was the most dominant player ever, by a wide margin. But there are quite a lot of similarities between Wilt and Shaq. Both were physically the strongest players of their eras. Both were so strong that they held back, and didn't shove their defenders with full force. Except for some instances by Shaq. Both were lousy free throw shooters. Both had great turnaround jays. Both led the league in scoring multiple times. Wilt led the NBA in blocks unofficially with absurd numbers, while slimmer Shaq led college ball in blocks with absurd numbers. Wilt was a somewhat below 300-pounder, college Shaq was a tad below 300-pounder. Wilt was around 7'2. Shaq was around 7'1. Both were exceptionally agile for their size. Both were traded to the Lakers at one point in their careers, and won chips there. Both played with Hall of Fame guards at L.A.. Jerry West is the current logo of the NBA, while Kobe is endorsed to take his place as the logo (hope this mistake isn't made). Both played acting roles in movies. Like Kobe said about Shaq, if he had trained harder, he would've been the greatest ever. Which essentially is Wilt. Another narration is about Kobe, and how Kobe never won titles without physically dominant centers. Kobe won the three-peat with Shaq, and then two titles with Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum. Shaq and Gasol aren't that similar, but Shaq and Bynum are. Bynum's numbers were starting to seem like Shaq's numbers, but Bynum suffered even more injuries than Shaq, so Bunym never reached his potential. There's also a Shaq-like player coming into the league, called Zach Edey. He's 7'5 and over 300-pounds. Was the best college ball player for the past few years. Plays solely in the post, so he was predicted to be drafted in the 2nd round, because nobody believes a Shaq-like player can be effective in today's league. I believe Zach will prove many people wrong, if he gets enough minutes and stays healthy. Zach was drafted as the 9th pick by the Grizzlies eventually. Unlike Shaq, Zach can shoot free throws, but blocks less shots. Otherwise he's are very similar to Shaq. Even their names are similar. Zach also has similarities to young Yao Ming. Such as size, athleticism, shot selection, and chinese heritage.
@@penkima4923 I know what you mean. I've seen basketball debates get heated, but, as for me personally, I'm trying to learn more about NBA history and appreciate it when I get the opportunities to learn more about it :). Thank you again for sharing your thoughts. Wilt came to mind before. Originally, I had gone a bit back and forth about the comparison since Wilt seemed to be more athletic and agile, but seeing clips of a younger Shaq have gotten me to think more about it. So has your comment. I've seen some clips of Wilt and read about him before. He was incredible and I can't think of any player more dominant than him (and I agree with you that he's the most dominant player ever in NBA history). Would you say that Wilt was the best center? I also totally agree that the league endorses current players more. I don't see the league talk about players from the past as much as I see them talk about current ones. I too heard the criticism that Kobe had of Shaq and I agree with it. I heard about how Shaq would come into training camp out of shape. It's a great "what if", but yeah I can see him being as dominant (if not making a good run at being close) as Shaq if he had trained harder. Great points about Gasol and Bynum. I remember watching the 2008 and 2010 Finals. Gasol was great and I recall the potential that Bynum showed too. Gasol didn't come to mind as the physically dominant one (though my memory could be wrong), but Bynum definitely fit that more (and I was intrigued by his potential). Sad how injuries cut his career short. I heard a bit about Zach Edey, but need to read up more (and watch more videos) about him. He intrigues me. I hope he proves critics wrong. It'd be an awesome to see a Shaq-like player succeed. I like 2000s basketball more than today's game (and I get the argument for taking lots of 3s, but I like the more physical game better). Thank you for the information about Edey. Have a great day :).
@@alex4833 "Would you say that Wilt was the best center?" A more common question is, was Wilt the best center of his era. Russell's only argument of being better than Wilt, is that Russell won more rings. Which sounds like Russell and Wilt played 1v1 for the rings, and they are not team achievements. Russell is said to be the better leader. But Wilt led significantly inferior teams to the finals, and made close series. Russell is said to be better at making his teammates better. But rookie Russell's Celtics had won 39 games the previous season before Russell won, and they won 44 games in Russell's rookie season. While Wilt's team had won 32 games without Wilt, and 49 games with Wilt. And Russell had 2 all-NBA first teamers on the team before he joined the team. While Wilt had just 1 all-NBA second teamer. And Russell had several all-college level players joining his team, who were already best in the nation, even though they had never played with Russell. Wilt had better individual stats than Russell, and always won their head to head match ups. And Wilt was the better leader. And Wilt made his teammates better. But Wilt played only with 3-4 Hall of Fame teammates at a time, while Russell played with 6-7 HoFers, so Russell's team usually won. Calling Russell the better player requires some heavy mental contradiction, and made-up intangible attributes. I saw some similarities to that logical fallacy in how people praised Ant-Man and Tatum in the past playoffs. Ant-Man took team high 24 shots in game 7 versus the Nuggets. He made 25 % of his shots, with 20 % from three. This would otherwise be considered a massive choke-job, but the Wolves had the Defensive Player of the Year and another all-star to carry Ant to a win, so Ant's performance is magically now considered a genius performance. Even though the opposing team had only one all-star player. Tatum's field goal percentage is at bottom-2 in the history of the NBA finals. This year he took the most shots on his team, even though his accuracy was record-breakingly bad, and Tatum even said his nervousness affects his shooting. He turned the ball over the most, and selfishly hogged the ball from other players because he was trying to force the FMVP to himself. Tatum's first final's appearance was called a choke-job. Even though Tatum put up the same horrendously bad numbers this year, that performance is generally considered a genius performance, because he was carried to victory by 4 all-star teammates. Even with the Kevin Garnett Celtics being a widely known super-team, and LeBron forming his own equivalent superteams, and KD joining the Warriors. Ring-count is still considered as the most important attribute in player comparisons by many. Over the amount of Hall of Fame teammates, over stats, and even over any intangible attributes. The Winning Culture in America is etched so deep, it still retains the ring-count as the only viable attribute in player comparisons. Regardless of all the overwhelming evidence pointing the opposite direction. The Winning Culture is like a cult or religion. It's based on belief. Not tangible evidence. Even intangible evidence doesn't matter. LeBron and KD getting bad rep for their team-hopping is a subtle sign that we might see some sense in these debates in the future. But right now, the conversation can still be described as stagnant. The league front office has the power to veto team-hopping trades, but they refuse to use that power. Business can be very harmful to basketball.
lillard and price...right on the money mr arnett!!! as always great upload....also every upload you do....thank you for your honest great work....love and respect from austria!! #nokangaroos
Honestly for AD, I’d say David Robinson. They are both defensive monsters who specialize in shot blocking, but they can also defend on the perimeter if need be. As for their offense, they are both guys who usually rely on their jumpers from the mid range and are amazing lob threats. Their offensive skill sets are a lot more alike to me than KG and AD because I don’t think AD could be the focal point of an offense like KG, just like how the Admiral couldn’t be a real focal point of a championship roster. Anthony Davis needed Bron just like how David Robinson needed Duncan. That’s just my take tho
"they can also defend on the perimeter if need be" In Robinson's era, he could just sit in the paint and wait for drives and cuts. "As for their offense, they are both guys who usually rely on their jumpers from the mid range and are amazing lob threats." AD and KG had an actual perimeter game, dribbling the ball, while Robinson played nearly solely off the ball, and was out of place in the perimeter. "I don’t think AD could be the focal point of an offense like KG" Offenses usually don't have focal points. They have first and second options. AD was the better scorer. KG was the better passer. AD got more touches at NO than KG at MIN. AD was the better first option than KG. "Admiral couldn’t be a real focal point of a championship roster" Hard to be the focal point of a roster that doesn't exist. "Anthony Davis needed Bron just like how David Robinson needed Duncan." All great players need supplementary players to win titles.
Great video Johnny! Before you mentioned, my thought really was Mahmoud Abdul Rauf's comparison to Steph. And I would be mad if you compare Larry Bird to Lebron or Luka. There's never been another quiet like Larry Joe Bird.
Mahmoud took a lot of 1v1 and pick'n'roll, off the dribble outside shots. Steph usually drives 1v1. And takes mostly off ball, off screen shots, or transition outside shots. They are not a great comparison. Dray is the primary playmaker.
Sometimes it is helpful to blend two past players to see a hybrid prototype for a current superstar. One example might be Zion as a mix of 76ers Sir Charles and Lob City Blake Griffin.
You’re spot on about Luka and Bird. Larry Bird was a way better shooter (one of the best ever) and also a very good and pesky defender. Luka is a great offensive player, but has a long way to go to get to Bird’s level overall. Not to mention Bird was a winner, virtually right out of the gate. Luka has yet to prove himself in that regard.
I agree on the defensive side but I’m not convinced Bird was a better shooter than Luka. Despite being much worse at free throws Luka still has Bird beat (58% to 56%) on True Shooting. Yes his flat 3pt percentage is lower but he takes 4x more threes which leads to lower percentage shots that are still more efficient than long twos and midrange looks.
Why didn't any American match his steals per game in the world cup, if they can defend so expertly? Luka was even leading the tournament mid way with 3 steals per game. Guess what? Spacing in the FIBA world cup is closer to 80's NBA than today's NBA. You sure the gap is that big? They played similar minutes in their first 5 seasons, yet Luka had the second most impact in the playoffs behind Jordan. They are second apart, not light years. If Luka was drafted by the Celtics instead of Tatum, well let's be real and not fool ourselves, I'm not confident that Giannis, Curry or Jokić win a ring. That theory will eventually prove itself, when Luka gets to have a real team, meaning people who can execute roles confidently under pressure, not teaming up with a superstar while your Media accuses him of not being compatible. The focal problem with Luka is not his behavior or athleticism or the way he plays, his main problem with Americans is in reality that he is not American. Envy is a mofo my friend.
@@lukebbuff This is a result of two things: Luka’s late career stats haven’t dragged down his percentages like happens to all NBA players, and it’s different games: Bird dealt with far more physicality, was more restricted in the rules on dribbling, as players are now allowed to carry and travel every play, and that’s no hate, just facts, and spacing was completely different. Give Bird the ability to play in todays league where he could put his hand under the ball while dribbling, be encouraged to launch from three and take step-backs, and give him far more space and you’re talking about one of the most efficient shooters ever. Not to mention Luka is not known for his late-game daggers (although he does have a few). Bird is almost unanimously regarded as the clutchest shooter ever. "If I had to choose a player to take a shot to save a game, I'd choose Michael Jordan. If I had to choose a player to take a shot to save my life, I'd take Larry Bird”- Pat Riley.
Now Jayson Tatum needs to win three rings with Giannis, get in a beef, win two more rings without him and score 81 points on Toronto to complete his Kobe cosplay.
Dope video. I had to make a comment after seeing the Dame and Mark Price comparison. Most times the player comparison is done by race ... For example calling Joker, Bird. When in reality Joker plays more like Magic with a JumpShot.. Or Nike forcing the Bron, Mike comparison. When in reality Bron was a mesh of Magic, Scottie, Dominique, and Karl Malone
kevin durant is bob madoo damaian lilard is perfect but i would add jerry west too lebron is elgin baylor mixed with oscar jayson tatum is tom chambers & kobe bryant joel embid is patrick ewing luka is harden & pemny steph & giannas have perfect comparison nikola jokic is perfect & add wilt chamblain year he won the a chip
In my opinion Jokic is a direct evolution of Dirk. From how Jokic shoots the basketball to how he draws defenses to him. Jokic took Dirk's game and added an elite passing ability, even better footwork in and out of the paint, and a great hook shot/floater game too.
Bill Walton was actually taller than 6-11; he just didn't want anybody to know it at the time. In fact, he jokingly still refuses to give a straight answer about it. LOL! However, some analysts believe he was closer to 7-2.
For Jokic, I would go clearly for Sabonis: offensively he was almost as skilled as Jokic, and his passing ability was insane. Looking just at his number of assists per game in nba doens't really reflect his ability: I think there was a video recently where Rasheed was saying Sabonis was even better than Jokic at the pass (I know this is Rasheed talking about one of his former teammate😀.)
I agree. Jokic is basically a healthier Sabonis. At their best they were probably around the same level but what makes Jokic much better is that he isnt slowed down by injuries unlike Sabonis was
@@TheDwight12 No, Sabonis was elite defensively. If he played today, without injuries, he would be clearly the best player. Old broken Sabonis would give Jokić business, hell Dwight gave him business, but now there are now centers of yesterday to prove my point. Still Jokić is beast for not being as tall as Sabonis and still proving that the package Arvydas had was enough to rule the NBA even if you are two inches shorter than Sabonis.
@@viktorkopinc4055 but being prone to injuries is a huge part. You could say the same for Grant Hill,Bill Walton and many others that you could argue would be in goat conversation without injuries. If a player is injury prone its a big negative and its a part of the package that makes a player great.
Pleasantly surprised by the comparison between Bernard King and King James. I disagree with Penny and Luka. Sure, you pointed out certain similarities, but Luka quite literally moves like Larry: which is a key factor. You can't expect a player as slow as Perk to play and move the same way as a LeBron; You can't expect a player who significantly lacks the speed and athleticism to move like an MJ; etc. Speed, finesse, and power are characteristics that are a key part of a player's game. Player's games or playstyles are the way they are in large part due to the extent of their physical abilities. You'll rarely find Luka pulling out moves at the back of his quickness because he simply can't do it (not as well as Penny). While Penny on the other hand made great use of his speed and athleticism and incorporated these into his game. While I enjoyed how you managed to draw some similarities from an entirely new point of comparison, I think this is a stretch and is just an attempt to be somewhat different.
Nice video concept and execution, for me. Well, looking at stats Bill Walton had 3.4 assists per game and Sabonis 2.1. But I feel safe guessing the plays by the coaching stuff had a lot to do, Sabonis being much less used. I did watch quite some Portland back then, but no Walton so I can't be sure. But, if one checks the highlights, the quality of Arvydas passes... I think it's even hard to argument they are not clearly as good as Jokic's. I actually feel we are lucky because we get to see what kind of Monster Sabonis would likely have become hadn't been for the insane dealing with his injuries. Funny note, I'm from Valladolid, so he played for my city in Spain. So yeah, I'm cool and trustable :P Nah, I didn't see any of that.
Funny, cause Isiah Thomas has reversed comparisons, Mahmoud for Dame and Price for Steph. Also, Hakeem was a lot faster than Embiid, but Embiid is heavier and more muscle, so it makes sense.
For me Kobe was MJ's prototype, yes I believed that when I didn't knew that MJ had come earlier than Kobe in the league, the style of play at the instant was so similar and at that point of time when I actually saw MJ & Kobe video on UA-cam back then, Kobe was the GOAT for me until I discovered UA-cam channels like Jonny's, so yeah MJ must have copied Kobe like logic I used till then but honestly I recognise MJ being the GOAT and Kobe, the second coming of MJ or maybe my generation's MJ atleast for late 2000s, his moves made me fall in love with this game otherwise for me it would've been an alien game which is hard and no one really played in my locality, in that circumstances only Kobe made me to learn the game to play
MJ Stans and Kobe haters HATE that he had all of Jordan’s moves and some of his own. They act as if every move of his career was an MJ move. You are absolutely correct.
@@Gemini050788There are no original moves. Just spins on existing moves. What separates players is their style, and Kobe has publicly stated numerous times that he mimics Jordan's style, and even approached Jordan for mentorship on performing those moves like him. Kobe went as far as to imply he is the only player to master MJ's style or receive mentorship. So yes, with Kobe its easier to point out similarities.
He doesn’t play like Magic tho. Bird had better passing than Luka too. Johnson liked the fastbreak, was incredibly athletic, scored through motion etc. none of that describes Luka’s game.
Bernard King... As someone who's Pop was only barely into baseball and who got into NFL & NBA on his own at 10 years old in 1988, I basically just missed Bernard King--- but boy did I and I still do, hear about King a lot. Not to be "that guy," cuz it's gonna be hilarious buuuuut lol... In my most recent season/90% games SIM'd in 2k23, I needed a 2nd scorer on my heavily defense and rebounding/0 scoring team. All I did was make him 19, put the intangibles up to 90, and just cuz I wanted him around "forever," put his peak end at 41 y/o, highest it can go. I then just put his shoot and touches tendency up to 90 each.... and I proceeded to watch him feast to the tune of a 12 year run of 27-30 ppg 22-34, and when he finally retired at 39, he still dropped i think like 19ppg? Hes awesome Added bonus--- I mustve made this comment 100 times, half of which here on this channel, but not for nothing, had my Knicks been able to make good, make reality, the whisper rumors of us acquiring ur boy (and mine) Mark Price, instead of Derek Harper, i still maintain that we beat the Rockets in 94, possibly even go back to face them again when Houston had Drexler. Harper was no slouch, but he wasnt Mark Price, and especially in his twilight with the Knicks. The difference he wouldve made, forcing defenses to plan for him and not basically just Ewing, Ewing wouldve been even better. And the God, whatever it was, 2 for 18 or whatever Starks had, I block it from my mind lol, but yeah that dont happen cuz Price could DRILL IT
Jonny I’m curious what you think about this but I don’t think Tatum’s offensive game mirrors Kobe’s as much as it use to. He’s added a lot of Harden’s step back moves and the way he danced on the perimeter. I also think that’s sometimes why he has bad playoff performances as well. I think the player who plays most like Kobe offensively in todays league is D Book but that’s just my opinion Lmk what you think. Love the vid bro🙏🏾💪🏾
I don't get the Bernard King-Bron comparison AT ALL!! Two totally different players! Bron TO ME was more similar to Dr. J in terms of using freak athletic ability to dominate guys in the open court. Both are one foot take guys who love doing the gliding stuff. From there since Bron is the gold standard point forward in history, u GOTTA throw some Pippen in with Lebron as well. And since he's a 6'9 pass first triple double threat who can play all five positions, the Magic comparison has to come into play. And when it comes to being a pass first triple double threat who averages 27-30 PPG, Bron has Oscar in his style for sure as well. With certain guys, u can't just compare him to only one player. It's a mix of two to four guys. If I had to name one player most similar to Bron, I think it has to be Magic 2.0. But for me, Bron was a mix Magic, Pippen, Dr. J, and Oscar in the body of the Mailman!
You’re totally right about the Penny Luka. I’ve always though Luka and Giannis would make a great duo. I guess I was just seeing the the young Orlando duo in them haha.
Tier One: MJ, LeBron Tier Two: Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Magic, Bird Tier Three: Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, Kobe this isnt towards the video or anyone in particular, but stop shoehorning your favorite players to be better than they are.
I swear he must have made some kinda deal for that one game because that performance has yet to be replicated in any significant game that I’ve watched
Hot take- Jayson Tatum plays nothing like Kobe. Kobe was much more about finesse than Tatum is, while Tatum is more about shooting over the top of players. Tatum plays more like TMac, Kawai, and Paul George than he does Kobe.
Ok hear me out... I got Steph Curry as a modern day and much better "Pistol" Pete Maravich. Both are a combination of insane shooting and ball handling that had never been seen before in the league when they came along.
I would have to disagree with Lebron. I think hes more closer to Magic...an all around player who can play all positions and get their teammates involve..everyone else is spot on tho
I think The besta comparison for them would be: Dame: Mark Price/Steve Nash KD: Tracy McGrady LeBron: Grant Hill AD: Kevin Garnett Tatum: Kobe Bryant Embiid: Hakeem Olajuwon Luka: Penny Hardaway Stephen Curry: Mark Price/Steve Nash Giannis: Young Shaq Jokic: Larry Bird Great list bro
I that Abdul-Rauf is closer to Steph than Nash & Price. Nash was a pass first PG, Steph is more of a shoot first SG. Price was a facilitator, more like Dame, where Steph is a shooter above all else. Steph always had other players to facilitate for him Livingston, Iguodala, Draymond, DiVencenzo, now CP0rings. I wouldn't compare Steph to Price & Nash because Steph doesn't handle facilitating duties like the others, that's Draymond's job. Steph's game is more comparable to the revolutionary combo guards like Marbury, Francis & Baron Davis if you changed their slashing abilities to perimeter shooting.
-Kevin Durant reminds me someway of Tony Kukoc, especialy when Tony played with Split and Treviso. They have in common the ability to play SF-PF, to shoot 3, the posture they have when they dribble and to penetrate sometimes, their height and lean aspect.. -Curry and Lillard : i think both have some Price and Abdul-Rauf in their game, some Nash too ? -Giannis : Between Shaq, David Robinson and Shawn Kemp (for morphology, explosiveness and mid-range shoot ability). -I would be curious about Klay Thompson : somewhere beetween players like Miller, Mullin and Michael Cooper for the defensive way ? -Draymond Green : Rodman ?
Joel Embid is more like Patrick Ewing. Ewing could stretch his shot further than most centers and his style of play was finesse as well. Luka is right handed James Harden. I see NO resemblance to Penny. Penny was way ,way more athletic than Luka could hope to be.
Man Johnny, you are dead on with some and absolutely off with others. Jokic is Larry Bird. Larry was a legit 6'10. He had a high arching shot above his head like Jokic. Was not very athletic like Jokic. Had a huge IQ like Jokic. Was an extraordinary passer like Jokic. Was a great rebounder like Jokic. Was extremely efficient like Jokic. Everytime I watch Jokic he reminds me of Bird.
Most people that think Luka is similar to Bird aren't fans of basketball. They're fans of the LEGACY of basketball. The type of people that see a great play off the dribble and say "he plays like AI"
Who is your favorite player, and who do you think is his prototype?
Kobe , I’d say Tatum and Booker
Jayson Tatum... hmm I guess Paul George but better.
And you should do a video like where you compare the evolution of each player type from across decades...like from bill Russell---to giannis
Or from wilt chamberlain, to Artis Gilmore to (insert another finesse power big here)
LeBron and I'd say his prototype was Pippen.
I’d say that you could also add Jerry West to Steph…around the same height, unlimited range, AND elite off the ball movement (that was not in M.A.R.’s bag).
I’d say that Jokic is closer to Bird than any player we’ve seen since…Bird and Joker are better passers and scorers than Walton, and have much better shooting ranges…Walton was a defender and shot blocker…in fact HE’S who AD should be compared to stylewise 🤷🏾♂️
Victor Oladipo, before his injuries was looking like D-wade. Sadly when he's about to peak, he got injured so bad.
Exacly
Two of my favorite players. That's a great comparison. People doing acknowledge how cold Vic really was
@@fdub301 Oladipo had 3-point range, and played more like a point guard, facing the basket. D-Wade posted up more, and used floaters. That's a better comparison than most on the video, though.
@@penkima4923 Wade was literally the the pg early in his career. He had to develop his post game, just like Oladipo had to develop his 3 pointer. Both were athletically gifted rim runners early on with extremely similar play styles offensively and defensively. Vic literally modeled his game after DWade. Go somewhere & get yourself together.
I always thought Luka’s play style most similarly resembled that of Houston James Harden
Who also took his game from Manu Ginobili.
same. Luka is a more efficient Harden since Luka is bigger and taller
I call him the REAL James Harden 🤣
Exactly. He's a right handed James Harden
Nailed it
I never considered Penny and Luka, but you got some real good points. You’re right, Luka wasn’t totally like Larry as much as people think
People only compare Luka to Bird for visual reasons. They play nothing alike. Bird played faster and more offball, while Lukas as ball fominant as they come - dribbling the life out of the ball and setting up mid and long range options for himself and others via screen action ( ala Chris Paul). Defensively its not a comparison at all.
I like this Video, but I remember penny being much faster and agile than Luka is.
@@theinkticianLuka is more faster then bird
Luka and Harden is the best comp No other comes close
@@Kendricktimes2ur crazy 😂
THANK YOU!!! I've been saying for years that Jokic is a modern-day Bill Walton! It should have been immediately obvious to all the people calling him "best passing big man ever" because this immediately comes with the comparison: "...reaching and surpassing the standard set by Bill Walton"
Comparing Bill Walton to Jokic is like comparing a Ford Pinto without wheels to a brand new Ferrari.
I understand the comparison with Walton and there is similarities but I actually think jokic is just a taller bird. He has the complete faciliting arsenal (especially the touch passes), the shooting, the back to the basket game, the efficiency, the attitude, the lack of athleticism and the intelligent defense.
Walton's defence was on a whole other level
@@GiannisetteI agree. Jokic is way more skilled than Walton, he is more comparable to Bird
@@Giannisette Very much agree. I see so much bird in jokic. Never thought i would see someone quite like bird again, but jokic is as close as it as we ever get
Chuck and Zion just so fun to watch
Chuck played mainly off the ball, back to basket, Zion plays more and more on the ball, face to basket. Fun to watch, though.
7:27 - 30 years later this is still one of the most 'wtf did he just do' moves in NBA history. I know Wiggins does this move semi-frequently, but still no where as smooth as Penny.
glad someone pointed this out. i had to rewind the video 5 times. what a move!
Hahahaha same I'm just like how the fuck is that not a travel bro must've studied that move
Beautiful move and beautiful shot too
I feel like the a jokic and bird comparison could also work from a playmaking and shooting standpoint cuz bird wasn’t shooting tht high of shots but was also facilitating from the post and both use minimal athleticism to dominate
Agreed!!
That’s the comparison I was thinking of.
I remember hearing a story when the Nuggets were deciding between trading Jokic and Nurkic, where someone brought in the per 36 stats between Jokic and Bird and they were nearly identical
Jokic is the first point-center, so he doesn't have a parallel in the past. Domantas Sabonis and Alperen Sengun are getting close.
This is why i love johnny’s channel. Only guy on yt who’s actually seen enough basketball to be a more then credible source for this kinda thing. Typical W video
With LeBron I think it's hard to guess his prototype as I can think of at least 3 (Hill, Magic, Pip) but Pippen for me is the closest as LeBron did whatever Pip was doing and took it to another level except his lockdown defense.
That is a well made point.
I’d put them about even on D but Lebron is better offensively, but definitely a good comparison
@@jackstraw522 Hill was the closest to him offensively, Pip defensively.
I would argue that Elgin Baylor is a more apt prototype for Lebron. Elgin was incredibly athletic, strong, could score from anywhere, and was a better passer than King by far. It was always said you could never take your eye off Elgin because he would always find the open man, and put the ball right into the shooting pocket. Baylor was a high flyer, and an incredibly high iq player, who could score like almost nobody else.
Nobody is similar to Bron
I actually think LeBron Bird but I thought Bird was a bigger slower Baylor. They all have a great sense of the court and great anticipation.
Actually it is Big O. Hyper athletic for the era who could jump run and strong as ox. Rebound pass, defend and played with high IQ.
@@cncaliguy09 I kinda get but Oscar is a guard and played like a guard. LeBron just isn't and doesn't. But watch Bird's games during the 3 MVP years and LeBron a very similar player.
Better passer than Lebron? There’s at best 5 guys who could say they’re better passers than Bron. There would be at least 50 players that I would name before Elgin Baylor in terms of passing
Thank you Jonny for this video! I love your comparisons of the players you mentioned for these reasons. I think we should look at modern players’ comparisons to the ones from the past as a result of play styles, their build, and their movement on the court.
That no-look pass from Penny to Rony Seikley (i think) was filthy
I hate it when ppl overrate and quickly compare a young player to an all time great and call them busts or did not live up to hype when they don’t.
They hyped booker to Kobe so bad and then when he failed to win a ring, they would diss the guy and say "you'll never be like Kobe" like wtf. They branded him like that and then call him out for not living to Kobe's standards. Absolutely pathetic. Mostly kobetards who loves him so much would compare someone who trained with Kobe and expect similar results.
People always strive to compare others from the past with new players. When we witness greatness we like to compare them with people similar to them
Can we take a moment to APPRECIATE Jonny Arnett? No. Seriously. The quality of his analysis and comparisons are second to NONE. Another great video. Par excellence per usual sir.
This is probably his worst video to date.
That Joker / Walton comparison is one I never would have considered the other still it's pretty spot-on obviously minus the facts that Walton was a premier defensive player in his prime
Jokic is a premier defensive player.
The differences are, Jokic can play as a primary ball-handler, and is a far better shooter.
You're on fire bro - keep up the great content! As far as comps to LBJ, though I like the Bernard King comp, I think the more accurate comp is Scottie Pippen. To me, if you look at their games, they are *very* similar - it's just that LeBron took his game to a whole nother level.
Nice video I don’t fully agree some but it’s still great explanations. Keep making great videos love watching them
My favorite youtuber! Would really appreciate an in depth video explaining Jayson Tatum's versatility. Really feels unique
My favourite player is jokić and his closest prototype is Arvydas Sabonis. Now back to watching the video :D
Good pick. I considered him, but you’ll hear another choice at the end 👍
Some very interesting picks here. I think an underrated Jokic comparison would be Bird despite them playing different positions. Both are triple double threats, elite 3 level scorers, and both had the uncanny ability to casually hit the most ridiculous shots in your face against all odds. Both also love playmaking in the high post as well as being overlooked but smart defenders.
Main differences being, Jokic can play as a primary ball-handler, and is exceptionally durable.
@@penkima4923 Bird definitely could be a primary ball handler too. I think his it was moreso his era/coaches that kept him from doing it on a regular basis
i think the best comparison for giannis is wilt because wilt was build like giannis and also had the speed and athletecism. I would take the more pass first wilt as giannis is also an ok passer.
Wilt was a fadeaway machine. Yes, they're generational athletes, but I can't take this comparison seriously.
Their playstyles are completely d8ferent. Wilt was a post player, Giannis is a slasher.
Sure but orlando shaq is still a closer comparison forsure
In terms of body and athleticism, absolutely- although Wilt was taller, heavier, stronger, could jump higher, whereas Giannis is more agile with better footwork. But in terms of play style their only real comparison is the dipper shot, except Giannis does it on the run, fastbreak ability (although Wilt rarely showcased it as the ball handler), and their flying back on defense for blocks. The only two players to consistently just go right up over a guy and finger roll it in with a fully extended arm.
@luke8837 Orlando Shaq os a terrible comp. This idea that he would take the ball coast to coast is a total fantasy. Tiny Shaq was still a bruising low post bully ball player. He wasn't a slasher, he wasn't a ball handler, and he wasn't leading fast breaks consistently. He was a slightly less effective version of what he was in LA.
Good idea for a video. Thats why i stayed watching through off-season unlike most the nba PooTubers...
Yes a new video!❤
Amazing vid as always
One of the few truly bad videos on this channel.
I see luka more as a modern day Oscar Robertson but i completely understand the penny comparison
Jrue Holiday reminds me of Gary Payton minus the trash talking but 2 of the best defensive guards in their era ask any player
If you ask me, both are overrated defenders. Payton more overrated, because he concentrated on offense more than Jrue.
KD and TMAC is prolly more apt for me but I can still see the dirk comp I guess
I can see that. A TMac and Dirk fusion is basically KD
I think a better LeBron James comparison would have been young Grant Hill. A nightmare in transition, decent ball handler and facilitator. Hill was never the defender LeBron was in his prime but Hill wasn't a lot of things that LeBron was in his time. I think he is probably the closest comparison though.
Pippen is generally the other comparison. Pip was a better defender tho.
I've always regarded LeBron as a mix between Karl Malone and Scottie Pippen. Grant Hill is a good comparison if you're talking just a single player but honestly Hill is a bit too light in the ass for me though I do see the similarities
@@shermanrobinson1178 LeBron and Malone have nearly nothing in common.
@@penkima4923 That's absolutely incorrect. Go watch Malone. Their playing styles are very similar. Both were incredible players into their older years. Both were physically gifted over everyone around them. Plus I said a mixture of Malone and Scottie. So you have to take attributes from both of them
@@shermanrobinson1178 Setting picks was essential for Malone, while LeBron rarely sets picks.
Post-up game was essential for Malone, while LeBron rarely posts up, especially if his shot is falling.
Malone wasn't a primary ball-handler, unlike LeBron.
Malone couldn't defend the perimeter, unlike LeBron.
Nearly nothing in common.
Oh god comparing Jokic to both Sebonis AND Walton is so painful as a Blazers fan. We basically had the Joker twice but only 1 chip to show for it lol
Cool comparisons, Jonny! Durant and Nowitzki didn't immediately come to mind initially for me (as I focused more on how Durant has been on multiple teams whereas Dirk was solely in Dallas), but you're right - their styles are quite similar. I remember being in awe of how unstoppable Dirk was. As you mentioned, he had a great shot, could shoot over you if you had a faster but shorter player guard him, and could maneuver and drive past you if you had a big guy who was slower than him defend Dirk. I can see the same for Durant. I also concur that young Shaq is similar to Giannis. I remember seeing clips of him from the 90s and seeing how agile he was amazed me. So, I agree that Giannis is definitely very similar to him.
Yeah, I didn't think that Bird was that great of a comparison for Luka. I like them both, but have seen Bird as a better defender and concur that their play styles. Penny is definitely a better comparison. Both are tall guards and I concur that their skillsets have many similarities.
It was great to learn more about Walton. I learned a bit about him before, but it was cool getting to learn more about him here. I can see why he and Jokic are similar.
Have a great day :).
Setting picks is a big part of Dirks game. While KD rarely sets picks. Dirk played in the post a lot, while KD rarely. Dirk played off the ball. KD plays a lot on the ball. It's a weak comparison.
Giannis plays the primary ball-handler a lot. Shaq tried to lead fast breaks sometimes, and that ended up in Shaq turning the ball over more often than not. Giannis plays mostly face to the basket, while Shaq plays nearly solely back to basket. Giannis has a decent mid-range shot, while Shaq doesn't have mid-range game at all. Their prototypes are completely different.
The difference in defense between Bird and Luka isn't too big. But Luka plays primary ball-handler, and Bird does not. And Luka plays in the perimeter, while Bird closer to the basket. Luka and Bird both rebound in power forward numbers. The comparison between Luka and Penny sounds great.
@@penkima4923 Thanks so much - I appreciate you sharing your thoughts about the comparisons. You make excellent points.
I'm curious who you believe would be the best comparison for Shaq.
Thanks again. Have a nice day.
@@alex4833 That's a tad unexpected response in a basketball debate. Nevertheless, there are a couple of names often thrown around, when the talk is about Shaq. Some of the talk is just the league front office trying to make up false narratives out of thin air. But the talk also has some truth to it.
Shaq was said to be the most dominant player ever, when he three-peated. That's because the league front office always endorses the current player over historical players, to generate more revenue. Actually Wilt Chamberlain was the most dominant player ever, by a wide margin. But there are quite a lot of similarities between Wilt and Shaq.
Both were physically the strongest players of their eras.
Both were so strong that they held back, and didn't shove their defenders with full force. Except for some instances by Shaq.
Both were lousy free throw shooters.
Both had great turnaround jays.
Both led the league in scoring multiple times.
Wilt led the NBA in blocks unofficially with absurd numbers, while slimmer Shaq led college ball in blocks with absurd numbers.
Wilt was a somewhat below 300-pounder, college Shaq was a tad below 300-pounder.
Wilt was around 7'2. Shaq was around 7'1.
Both were exceptionally agile for their size.
Both were traded to the Lakers at one point in their careers, and won chips there.
Both played with Hall of Fame guards at L.A.. Jerry West is the current logo of the NBA, while Kobe is endorsed to take his place as the logo (hope this mistake isn't made).
Both played acting roles in movies.
Like Kobe said about Shaq, if he had trained harder, he would've been the greatest ever. Which essentially is Wilt.
Another narration is about Kobe, and how Kobe never won titles without physically dominant centers. Kobe won the three-peat with Shaq, and then two titles with Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum. Shaq and Gasol aren't that similar, but Shaq and Bynum are. Bynum's numbers were starting to seem like Shaq's numbers, but Bynum suffered even more injuries than Shaq, so Bunym never reached his potential.
There's also a Shaq-like player coming into the league, called Zach Edey. He's 7'5 and over 300-pounds. Was the best college ball player for the past few years. Plays solely in the post, so he was predicted to be drafted in the 2nd round, because nobody believes a Shaq-like player can be effective in today's league. I believe Zach will prove many people wrong, if he gets enough minutes and stays healthy. Zach was drafted as the 9th pick by the Grizzlies eventually. Unlike Shaq, Zach can shoot free throws, but blocks less shots. Otherwise he's are very similar to Shaq. Even their names are similar. Zach also has similarities to young Yao Ming. Such as size, athleticism, shot selection, and chinese heritage.
@@penkima4923 I know what you mean. I've seen basketball debates get heated, but, as for me personally, I'm trying to learn more about NBA history and appreciate it when I get the opportunities to learn more about it :). Thank you again for sharing your thoughts.
Wilt came to mind before. Originally, I had gone a bit back and forth about the comparison since Wilt seemed to be more athletic and agile, but seeing clips of a younger Shaq have gotten me to think more about it. So has your comment. I've seen some clips of Wilt and read about him before. He was incredible and I can't think of any player more dominant than him (and I agree with you that he's the most dominant player ever in NBA history).
Would you say that Wilt was the best center?
I also totally agree that the league endorses current players more. I don't see the league talk about players from the past as much as I see them talk about current ones.
I too heard the criticism that Kobe had of Shaq and I agree with it. I heard about how Shaq would come into training camp out of shape. It's a great "what if", but yeah I can see him being as dominant (if not making a good run at being close) as Shaq if he had trained harder.
Great points about Gasol and Bynum. I remember watching the 2008 and 2010 Finals. Gasol was great and I recall the potential that Bynum showed too. Gasol didn't come to mind as the physically dominant one (though my memory could be wrong), but Bynum definitely fit that more (and I was intrigued by his potential). Sad how injuries cut his career short.
I heard a bit about Zach Edey, but need to read up more (and watch more videos) about him. He intrigues me. I hope he proves critics wrong. It'd be an awesome to see a Shaq-like player succeed. I like 2000s basketball more than today's game (and I get the argument for taking lots of 3s, but I like the more physical game better). Thank you for the information about Edey.
Have a great day :).
@@alex4833 "Would you say that Wilt was the best center?"
A more common question is, was Wilt the best center of his era.
Russell's only argument of being better than Wilt, is that Russell won more rings. Which sounds like Russell and Wilt played 1v1 for the rings, and they are not team achievements.
Russell is said to be the better leader. But Wilt led significantly inferior teams to the finals, and made close series.
Russell is said to be better at making his teammates better. But rookie Russell's Celtics had won 39 games the previous season before Russell won, and they won 44 games in Russell's rookie season. While Wilt's team had won 32 games without Wilt, and 49 games with Wilt. And Russell had 2 all-NBA first teamers on the team before he joined the team. While Wilt had just 1 all-NBA second teamer. And Russell had several all-college level players joining his team, who were already best in the nation, even though they had never played with Russell.
Wilt had better individual stats than Russell, and always won their head to head match ups. And Wilt was the better leader. And Wilt made his teammates better. But Wilt played only with 3-4 Hall of Fame teammates at a time, while Russell played with 6-7 HoFers, so Russell's team usually won. Calling Russell the better player requires some heavy mental contradiction, and made-up intangible attributes. I saw some similarities to that logical fallacy in how people praised Ant-Man and Tatum in the past playoffs.
Ant-Man took team high 24 shots in game 7 versus the Nuggets. He made 25 % of his shots, with 20 % from three. This would otherwise be considered a massive choke-job, but the Wolves had the Defensive Player of the Year and another all-star to carry Ant to a win, so Ant's performance is magically now considered a genius performance. Even though the opposing team had only one all-star player.
Tatum's field goal percentage is at bottom-2 in the history of the NBA finals. This year he took the most shots on his team, even though his accuracy was record-breakingly bad, and Tatum even said his nervousness affects his shooting. He turned the ball over the most, and selfishly hogged the ball from other players because he was trying to force the FMVP to himself. Tatum's first final's appearance was called a choke-job. Even though Tatum put up the same horrendously bad numbers this year, that performance is generally considered a genius performance, because he was carried to victory by 4 all-star teammates.
Even with the Kevin Garnett Celtics being a widely known super-team, and LeBron forming his own equivalent superteams, and KD joining the Warriors. Ring-count is still considered as the most important attribute in player comparisons by many. Over the amount of Hall of Fame teammates, over stats, and even over any intangible attributes. The Winning Culture in America is etched so deep, it still retains the ring-count as the only viable attribute in player comparisons. Regardless of all the overwhelming evidence pointing the opposite direction. The Winning Culture is like a cult or religion. It's based on belief. Not tangible evidence. Even intangible evidence doesn't matter. LeBron and KD getting bad rep for their team-hopping is a subtle sign that we might see some sense in these debates in the future. But right now, the conversation can still be described as stagnant. The league front office has the power to veto team-hopping trades, but they refuse to use that power. Business can be very harmful to basketball.
Carmelo Anthony is Alex English, they both could score a ton but had pretty equal win percentages
lillard and price...right on the money mr arnett!!! as always great upload....also every upload you do....thank you for your honest great work....love and respect from austria!! #nokangaroos
Honestly for AD, I’d say David Robinson. They are both defensive monsters who specialize in shot blocking, but they can also defend on the perimeter if need be. As for their offense, they are both guys who usually rely on their jumpers from the mid range and are amazing lob threats. Their offensive skill sets are a lot more alike to me than KG and AD because I don’t think AD could be the focal point of an offense like KG, just like how the Admiral couldn’t be a real focal point of a championship roster. Anthony Davis needed Bron just like how David Robinson needed Duncan. That’s just my take tho
"they can also defend on the perimeter if need be"
In Robinson's era, he could just sit in the paint and wait for drives and cuts.
"As for their offense, they are both guys who usually rely on their jumpers from the mid range and are amazing lob threats."
AD and KG had an actual perimeter game, dribbling the ball, while Robinson played nearly solely off the ball, and was out of place in the perimeter.
"I don’t think AD could be the focal point of an offense like KG"
Offenses usually don't have focal points. They have first and second options. AD was the better scorer. KG was the better passer. AD got more touches at NO than KG at MIN. AD was the better first option than KG.
"Admiral couldn’t be a real focal point of a championship roster"
Hard to be the focal point of a roster that doesn't exist.
"Anthony Davis needed Bron just like how David Robinson needed Duncan."
All great players need supplementary players to win titles.
Great video Johnny! Before you mentioned, my thought really was Mahmoud Abdul Rauf's comparison to Steph.
And I would be mad if you compare Larry Bird to Lebron or Luka. There's never been another quiet like Larry Joe Bird.
Mahmoud took a lot of 1v1 and pick'n'roll, off the dribble outside shots. Steph usually drives 1v1. And takes mostly off ball, off screen shots, or transition outside shots. They are not a great comparison. Dray is the primary playmaker.
I'm a little surprised you didn't say George Gervin for KD
Sometimes it is helpful to blend two past players to see a hybrid prototype for a current superstar. One example might be Zion as a mix of 76ers Sir Charles and Lob City Blake Griffin.
And Shawn Kemp and LJ, not LeBron James, but Larry Johnson
You know, Luka reminds me a lot of prime Harden, but, you know, instead of being a choker Luka can make clutch plays.
You’re spot on about Luka and Bird. Larry Bird was a way better shooter (one of the best ever) and also a very good and pesky defender. Luka is a great offensive player, but has a long way to go to get to Bird’s level overall. Not to mention Bird was a winner, virtually right out of the gate. Luka has yet to prove himself in that regard.
Interesting
I agree on the defensive side but I’m not convinced Bird was a better shooter than Luka.
Despite being much worse at free throws Luka still has Bird beat (58% to 56%) on True Shooting. Yes his flat 3pt percentage is lower but he takes 4x more threes which leads to lower percentage shots that are still more efficient than long twos and midrange looks.
Why didn't any American match his steals per game in the world cup, if they can defend so expertly? Luka was even leading the tournament mid way with 3 steals per game. Guess what? Spacing in the FIBA world cup is closer to 80's NBA than today's NBA. You sure the gap is that big? They played similar minutes in their first 5 seasons, yet Luka had the second most impact in the playoffs behind Jordan. They are second apart, not light years. If Luka was drafted by the Celtics instead of Tatum, well let's be real and not fool ourselves, I'm not confident that Giannis, Curry or Jokić win a ring. That theory will eventually prove itself, when Luka gets to have a real team, meaning people who can execute roles confidently under pressure, not teaming up with a superstar while your Media accuses him of not being compatible. The focal problem with Luka is not his behavior or athleticism or the way he plays, his main problem with Americans is in reality that he is not American. Envy is a mofo my friend.
Offensively there's a Convo. But bird is a much better shooter.
@@lukebbuff This is a result of two things: Luka’s late career stats haven’t dragged down his percentages like happens to all NBA players, and it’s different games: Bird dealt with far more physicality, was more restricted in the rules on dribbling, as players are now allowed to carry and travel every play, and that’s no hate, just facts, and spacing was completely different. Give Bird the ability to play in todays league where he could put his hand under the ball while dribbling, be encouraged to launch from three and take step-backs, and give him far more space and you’re talking about one of the most efficient shooters ever. Not to mention Luka is not known for his late-game daggers (although he does have a few). Bird is almost unanimously regarded as the clutchest shooter ever. "If I had to choose a player to take a shot to save a game, I'd choose Michael Jordan. If I had to choose a player to take a shot to save my life, I'd take Larry Bird”- Pat Riley.
Booker has always been the modern day Kobe for me
I think Curry is more similar to Reggie Miller, but thats probably mostly because Thinking Basketball makes such a compelling argument about that
Now Jayson Tatum needs to win three rings with Giannis, get in a beef, win two more rings without him and score 81 points on Toronto to complete his Kobe cosplay.
Lebron's prototype is easily Scottie Pippen, the first point forward. Lebron is the better version of Pippen, excluding the defence.
At least Magic Johnson was a point forward before Pippen.
Great video but i think Sabonis is an underrated passer!
Dope video. I had to make a comment after seeing the Dame and Mark Price comparison. Most times the player comparison is done by race ... For example calling Joker, Bird. When in reality Joker plays more like Magic with a JumpShot..
Or Nike forcing the Bron, Mike comparison. When in reality Bron was a mesh of Magic, Scottie, Dominique, and Karl Malone
kevin durant is bob madoo
damaian lilard is perfect but i would add jerry west too
lebron is elgin baylor mixed with oscar
jayson tatum is tom chambers & kobe bryant
joel embid is patrick ewing
luka is harden & pemny
steph & giannas have perfect comparison
nikola jokic is perfect & add wilt chamblain year he won the a chip
Love these comparisons!
Those were my thoughts exactly ! spot on
That fact that Walton is a legend WHILE being the most injured player ever is amazing
In my opinion Jokic is a direct evolution of Dirk. From how Jokic shoots the basketball to how he draws defenses to him.
Jokic took Dirk's game and added an elite passing ability, even better footwork in and out of the paint, and a great hook shot/floater game too.
I love these comparisons lillard + price.Also dirk+Durant
Bleacher Report had a video series called The Portal. thoughts on that?
For Kevin Durant I would’ve picked Tracy mcgrady instead
W Bernard King respect
Bernard King to LeBron is insane
Bill Walton was actually taller than 6-11; he just didn't want anybody to know it at the time. In fact, he jokingly still refuses to give a straight answer about it. LOL! However, some analysts believe he was closer to 7-2.
You should do “Who would be the most remembered teams of the last 10 years.” Try to think of like you are 20 years in the future.
Love how Jonny always gives dame the credit he deserves
For Jokic, I would go clearly for Sabonis: offensively he was almost as skilled as Jokic, and his passing ability was insane. Looking just at his number of assists per game in nba doens't really reflect his ability: I think there was a video recently where Rasheed was saying Sabonis was even better than Jokic at the pass (I know this is Rasheed talking about one of his former teammate😀.)
I agree. Jokic is basically a healthier Sabonis. At their best they were probably around the same level but what makes Jokic much better is that he isnt slowed down by injuries unlike Sabonis was
@@TheDwight12 No, Sabonis was elite defensively. If he played today, without injuries, he would be clearly the best player. Old broken Sabonis would give Jokić business, hell Dwight gave him business, but now there are now centers of yesterday to prove my point. Still Jokić is beast for not being as tall as Sabonis and still proving that the package Arvydas had was enough to rule the NBA even if you are two inches shorter than Sabonis.
@@viktorkopinc4055 but being prone to injuries is a huge part. You could say the same for Grant Hill,Bill Walton and many others that you could argue would be in goat conversation without injuries. If a player is injury prone its a big negative and its a part of the package that makes a player great.
No they aren't the same offensively.
Ill be honest that LBJ Benard King comparison is wwwwaaaayyyyyyy oooofffff!!!!!!
Crossing out the Celtics logo in the thumbnail is goated
Steph is Steve Nash on steroids.
Pleasantly surprised by the comparison between Bernard King and King James.
I disagree with Penny and Luka. Sure, you pointed out certain similarities, but Luka quite literally moves like Larry: which is a key factor. You can't expect a player as slow as Perk to play and move the same way as a LeBron; You can't expect a player who significantly lacks the speed and athleticism to move like an MJ; etc.
Speed, finesse, and power are characteristics that are a key part of a player's game. Player's games or playstyles are the way they are in large part due to the extent of their physical abilities. You'll rarely find Luka pulling out moves at the back of his quickness because he simply can't do it (not as well as Penny). While Penny on the other hand made great use of his speed and athleticism and incorporated these into his game.
While I enjoyed how you managed to draw some similarities from an entirely new point of comparison, I think this is a stretch and is just an attempt to be somewhat different.
Nice video concept and execution, for me.
Well, looking at stats Bill Walton had 3.4 assists per game and Sabonis 2.1. But I feel safe guessing the plays by the coaching stuff had a lot to do, Sabonis being much less used. I did watch quite some Portland back then, but no Walton so I can't be sure. But, if one checks the highlights, the quality of Arvydas passes... I think it's even hard to argument they are not clearly as good as Jokic's.
I actually feel we are lucky because we get to see what kind of Monster Sabonis would likely have become hadn't been for the insane dealing with his injuries. Funny note, I'm from Valladolid, so he played for my city in Spain. So yeah, I'm cool and trustable :P Nah, I didn't see any of that.
Dame reminds me more of a Gilbert Arenas prototype.
Funny, cause Isiah Thomas has reversed comparisons, Mahmoud for Dame and Price for Steph. Also, Hakeem was a lot faster than Embiid, but Embiid is heavier and more muscle, so it makes sense.
My favorite player is Kobe, and his prototype is MJ, but when he came 24, he was honestly his own thing
For me Kobe was MJ's prototype, yes I believed that when I didn't knew that MJ had come earlier than Kobe in the league, the style of play at the instant was so similar and at that point of time when I actually saw MJ & Kobe video on UA-cam back then, Kobe was the GOAT for me until I discovered UA-cam channels like Jonny's, so yeah MJ must have copied Kobe like logic I used till then but honestly I recognise MJ being the GOAT and Kobe, the second coming of MJ or maybe my generation's MJ atleast for late 2000s, his moves made me fall in love with this game otherwise for me it would've been an alien game which is hard and no one really played in my locality, in that circumstances only Kobe made me to learn the game to play
Early Kobe mostly mimicked Jordan's fancy layups. But many players did those type of layups
MJ Stans and Kobe haters HATE that he had all of Jordan’s moves and some of his own. They act as if every move of his career was an MJ move. You are absolutely correct.
Kobe's similarity to MJ mostly comes down to the flashy layups.
@@Gemini050788There are no original moves. Just spins on existing moves. What separates players is their style, and Kobe has publicly stated numerous times that he mimics Jordan's style, and even approached Jordan for mentorship on performing those moves like him.
Kobe went as far as to imply he is the only player to master MJ's style or receive mentorship. So yes, with Kobe its easier to point out similarities.
Thanks you for Luka and Bird. For the media only the color matter ! Thanks you
One of my fav player is Luka and his prototype is probably Magic Johnson because of Luka's amazing passing.
He doesn’t play like Magic tho. Bird had better passing than Luka too. Johnson liked the fastbreak, was incredibly athletic, scored through motion etc. none of that describes Luka’s game.
LOL, Bird was a much better passer than Luka is, Magic is the greatest ever!
Think Tatum is more T-Mac than Kobe
First half had some unique comparisons I never heard before, once we got to Tatum-Kobe it was standard fare but still entertaining content
That’s why I skimmed over it so fast. It was an honest answer, but a boring one because everyone knows that comparison 😂
If Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell played nowadays Wilt would be Giannis and Bill Russell would be Bam Adebuyo.
Bernard King...
As someone who's Pop was only barely into baseball and who got into NFL & NBA on his own at 10 years old in 1988, I basically just missed Bernard King--- but boy did I and I still do, hear about King a lot.
Not to be "that guy," cuz it's gonna be hilarious buuuuut lol...
In my most recent season/90% games SIM'd in 2k23, I needed a 2nd scorer on my heavily defense and rebounding/0 scoring team. All I did was make him 19, put the intangibles up to 90, and just cuz I wanted him around "forever," put his peak end at 41 y/o, highest it can go.
I then just put his shoot and touches tendency up to 90 each.... and I proceeded to watch him feast to the tune of a 12 year run of 27-30 ppg 22-34, and when he finally retired at 39, he still dropped i think like 19ppg? Hes awesome
Added bonus--- I mustve made this comment 100 times, half of which here on this channel, but not for nothing, had my Knicks been able to make good, make reality, the whisper rumors of us acquiring ur boy (and mine) Mark Price, instead of Derek Harper, i still maintain that we beat the Rockets in 94, possibly even go back to face them again when Houston had Drexler.
Harper was no slouch, but he wasnt Mark Price, and especially in his twilight with the Knicks. The difference he wouldve made, forcing defenses to plan for him and not basically just Ewing, Ewing wouldve been even better.
And the God, whatever it was, 2 for 18 or whatever Starks had, I block it from my mind lol, but yeah that dont happen cuz Price could DRILL IT
Jonny I’m curious what you think about this but I don’t think Tatum’s offensive game mirrors Kobe’s as much as it use to. He’s added a lot of Harden’s step back moves and the way he danced on the perimeter. I also think that’s sometimes why he has bad playoff performances as well. I think the player who plays most like Kobe offensively in todays league is D Book but that’s just my opinion Lmk what you think. Love the vid bro🙏🏾💪🏾
I don't get the Bernard King-Bron comparison AT ALL!! Two totally different players! Bron TO ME was more similar to Dr. J in terms of using freak athletic ability to dominate guys in the open court. Both are one foot take guys who love doing the gliding stuff. From there since Bron is the gold standard point forward in history, u GOTTA throw some Pippen in with Lebron as well. And since he's a 6'9 pass first triple double threat who can play all five positions, the Magic comparison has to come into play.
And when it comes to being a pass first triple double threat who averages 27-30 PPG, Bron has Oscar in his style for sure as well. With certain guys, u can't just compare him to only one player. It's a mix of two to four guys. If I had to name one player most similar to Bron, I think it has to be Magic 2.0. But for me, Bron was a mix Magic, Pippen, Dr. J, and Oscar in the body of the Mailman!
Still waiting for that all time Celtics lineup
You’re totally right about the Penny Luka. I’ve always though Luka and Giannis would make a great duo. I guess I was just seeing the the young Orlando duo in them haha.
Ja Morant is similar to Kevin Johnson.
Tier One: MJ, LeBron
Tier Two: Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Magic, Bird
Tier Three: Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, Kobe
this isnt towards the video or anyone in particular, but stop shoehorning your favorite players to be better than they are.
Ja Morant and Derrick Rose
Great great job on the video Jonny. Just one issue.
Bernard King was no LeBron James! Respectfully speaking of course on behalf of Bernard.
Lonzo Ball coming out of UCLA reminded me of Jason Kidd and Chris Paul.
I was thinking for Gianni’s he reminds me of James worthy quick strong and a good defender
IMHO Embiid is closer to Ewing than "The Dream".
I won’t completely abandon faith in Giannis’ free throws. He was very good in the 2021 Finals in Game 6.
I swear he must have made some kinda deal for that one game because that performance has yet to be replicated in any significant game that I’ve watched
Hot take- Jayson Tatum plays nothing like Kobe. Kobe was much more about finesse than Tatum is, while Tatum is more about shooting over the top of players. Tatum plays more like TMac, Kawai, and Paul George than he does Kobe.
Ok hear me out... I got Steph Curry as a modern day and much better "Pistol" Pete Maravich.
Both are a combination of insane shooting and ball handling that had never been seen before in the league when they came along.
Luka - Penny. That's a great comparison.
I would have to disagree with Lebron. I think hes more closer to Magic...an all around player who can play all positions and get their teammates involve..everyone else is spot on tho
George Mikan. Without him, there's no Big Man at all.
Let's not forget Giannis going 17/19 from the line during a finals game
Luka and Penny is actually a really good comparison
Leaving this video thinking of embiid as the walmart version (with a 3) of hakeem now lol
Walton was an elite shot blocker and couldn't shoot... Didn't even do it ....... Jokic is bird light...
I think The besta comparison for them would be:
Dame: Mark Price/Steve Nash
KD: Tracy McGrady
LeBron: Grant Hill
AD: Kevin Garnett
Tatum: Kobe Bryant
Embiid: Hakeem Olajuwon
Luka: Penny Hardaway
Stephen Curry: Mark Price/Steve Nash
Giannis: Young Shaq
Jokic: Larry Bird
Great list bro
I that Abdul-Rauf is closer to Steph than Nash & Price. Nash was a pass first PG, Steph is more of a shoot first SG. Price was a facilitator, more like Dame, where Steph is a shooter above all else. Steph always had other players to facilitate for him Livingston, Iguodala, Draymond, DiVencenzo, now CP0rings. I wouldn't compare Steph to Price & Nash because Steph doesn't handle facilitating duties like the others, that's Draymond's job. Steph's game is more comparable to the revolutionary combo guards like Marbury, Francis & Baron Davis if you changed their slashing abilities to perimeter shooting.
Major difference between embiid and hakeem was that embiid is probably the clumsiness 7 footer ever and hakeem was anything but.
Facts lol Embiid probably the weakest 7-footer physically, he falls on the floor at least 3 times every game
I’ve consider Jokić as Wilt imo, since they both can score, rebound and assist at will!
-Kevin Durant reminds me someway of Tony Kukoc, especialy when Tony played with Split and Treviso. They have in common the ability to play SF-PF, to shoot 3, the posture they have when they dribble and to penetrate sometimes, their height and lean aspect..
-Curry and Lillard : i think both have some Price and Abdul-Rauf in their game, some Nash too ?
-Giannis : Between Shaq, David Robinson and Shawn Kemp (for morphology, explosiveness and mid-range shoot ability).
-I would be curious about Klay Thompson : somewhere beetween players like Miller, Mullin and Michael Cooper for the defensive way ?
-Draymond Green : Rodman ?
Joel Embid is more like Patrick Ewing. Ewing could stretch his shot further than most centers and his style of play was finesse as well. Luka is right handed James Harden. I see NO resemblance to Penny. Penny was way ,way more athletic than Luka could hope to be.
Man Johnny, you are dead on with some and absolutely off with others. Jokic is Larry Bird. Larry was a legit 6'10. He had a high arching shot above his head like Jokic. Was not very athletic like Jokic. Had a huge IQ like Jokic. Was an extraordinary passer like Jokic. Was a great rebounder like Jokic. Was extremely efficient like Jokic. Everytime I watch Jokic he reminds me of Bird.
Most people that think Luka is similar to Bird aren't fans of basketball. They're fans of the LEGACY of basketball. The type of people that see a great play off the dribble and say "he plays like AI"
General sports fans too sometimes - like my pops
I don’t think Dirk and KD are comparable because Dirk does not have near the ball handling like KD.