Why It Works: Rorschach's First Kill | WATCHMEN Analysis
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- "Men get arrested... Dogs get PUT DOWN".
My favorite scene from Watchmen directed by Daddy Zack Snyder. All jokes aside, I really enjoy this film, and this is probably my favorite scene from the movie (Other than the ending ("Do it!!")).
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Wow amazing analysis, say what you want about Zack Snyder but the amount of detail, visual storytelling, and internal conflict in this scene just took by breath away. Edit: Yes, thanks for the heart I'm a big fan btw.
@Sharan Mudda Exactly bang on, even the greatest directors have their shortcomings because nobody is perfect I just wish Zack would been atleast a bit better at storytelling it would have turned some of his "fine" or even good movies into great ones.
@Sharan Mudda Agreed the first Avengers movie has alot of great character moments and dynamics but when when you look at its cenimatagrophy it's one of the most flat and blandly shot blockbusters in the last 8 years.
Zack Snyder's Watchmen is my all time favorite superhero film of all time. Every director has their masterpiece, Watchmen was his. The fact that James Gunn, Darren Aronofksy, Scott Derrickson and Christopher Nolan loved the film, called it a "ahead of it's time masterpiece", even Derrickson calling it " The Blade Runner of Comic Book Cinema", I absolutely agree.
Watchmen was brilliant.
2:27 that looks like XxxEdelord6969xxX with 2 sunglass donning traps
Basically sums up my love hate relationship with this man also noting that since this movies release a lot of successful movies used such tools
Rorschach is the first ever
"We live in a society"
And the comedian is the first ever
"It's a joke"
And night owl is the first "I am therefore I exist."
bleach comrade That joke blew Murrays mind
It that dam video game
@@cenoviopereira8603 wait what
"Men get arrested. Dogs get put down," is a line that never left me after watching the movie. Like, Jesus Christ.
That’s Alan Moore’s script more than Zack
Snyder’s artistic flair... jheez
Otto Roberts ok
I could understand nothing after "men get arrested"
SAME
"You're not brave, men are brave"
You missed the best Watchmen quote by about a minute: "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do."
Also this one worth mentioning too: "I'm not a comic book villain. Do you seriously think I would explain my master stroke to you if there were even the slightest possibility you could affect the outcome? I triggered it 35 minutes ago."
🤔
both are a bit too "edgy"
@@ransnorkel9322 the last quote is a direct reference to the comic, but I also kinda agree
Ransnorkel no it’s not
Ransnorkel in the comic it says “do you think I’m some sorta movie villain?” It’s an awesome switch aroind
"Kovacs closed his eyes. It was Rorschach that opened them." That's my favorite line from the whole thing.
that actor would be the PERFECT candidate for the Carnage symbiote
He's really old but if you liked him in this watch preacher he plays a great psycho in that!
He is old for Carnage now...
@@NoneRain_ A pity but I think we would need someone more maniacal for the part anyway.
Cassidy
I’d sign a petition for that! Him or the guy who played evil hulk against Edward Norton.
The CG on Rorschach’s mask is amazing. It just complements the performance so well.
It’s definitely incredible
The actor who played Rorschach though. Love the guy in watchmen and in the newest Nightmare on Elmstreet
Sadly the new watchmen learned nothing of amazing suspenseful cinematography and simply descided to put spray painted burlap sack over the new Rosharch's head(the new tv series soon to air) and call it a Watchmen
It's a great example of when CGI isn't hidden but still works so well.
@@sugarreaper6474 Oh and made for TV stuff is shit anyway. It's just a ploy to make money off suckers. TV is trash. Liberate yourself from it.
" I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me!" One of my favorite lines in all of Cinema.
Yet the line was taking from the comic book.
@@wallywest4727 Technically we just hear the psychiatrist recite it from his notes.
In the movie, we actually hear Rorschach himself say it.
I still say this line to this day, it will never get old for me.
@@leobanks6111 Same here.
@Michael Miller Schwarzenegger's lines are badass too. It depends on delivery.
'Never compromise, not even in the face of Armageddon ' is what I'll always remember from Rorschach...
*'That's always been the difference between us, Daniel.'
Punisher said the same thing during marvel zombies.
Compromise would lead to peace treaty between nuclear weapon holding countries. Armageddon averted. His philosophy maintains what he’s fighting against
Relatably so.
and i agree with him fully
Rorshack's best scene is when he dies at the end. The emotion that actor showed was soul crushing.
"What's one more body amongst foundations?"
Yes, it is. I love all his moments, but there is one tiny moment that just makes him so much more likable for me. When after being yelled at by Daniel he apologises, admits he is difficult to deal with and tells him he's a good friend. It is in contrast to when at the beginning of the film he leaves Dan's home and says he feels slightly depressed after being turned down and seeing what his friend became. There is a sincerity to his emotions. Very judgemental, but sincere.
For real
Agreed. Fantastic.
he is not frustrated about his death, but that he can´t reveal the truth. That is what bothers him the most.
There's so much nuance to "Men get arrested, dogs get put down"
Men are self-aware and logical beings with morals and ideals. You can reason with men, show them a better path, and change how they live. Dogs are impulsive, unpredictable, and controlled by instincts. There's no helping a wild dog, their feral and chaotic nature cannot be truly suppressed.
I feel there is nuance, but only because in making such a statement, reducing the entities to simplified and generalised ideas (i.e., men can be reasoned with and dogs cannot), Rorschach has now effectively lost his ability to accept nuance.
@@splatbubble uh...can you explain the nuance present in a pedophile that kills children and feeds them to his dogs? I mean thats pretty much max evil, at a certain point it just becomes banal
@@zachary3367 No, because there is none. And that's not what I was saying at all.
My comment was referring to the language usage for the comparison, as the original poster had actually specifically referred to the statement of "men get arrested, dogs get put down." I was continuing the discussion on this particular choice of language, and this statement, alone.
Generalizing men as "good" or "redeemable" or "reasonable" and dogs as "bad" or "ireedeemable" or "not able to be helped" is a very simplified argument. My contention was that as someone becomes more binary, they tend to make statements like this. For Rorschach to call this criminal evil is accurate. To refer to him as a dog is inaccurate, clumsy, and unfair to dogs.
@@splatbubble I think what is missing here is the implication of when a dog goes rabid. It is not that all dogs are bad but rather, when a dog goes rabid, we don't try and negotiate or rehabilitate. Rather, we just put the dog down and move on.
Granted this is adding a bit more context than is actually stated within the scene, but I do not believe that it is to far of a stretch given Rorschach's state of mind. To him, this murderer was no longer human but rather a rabid dog that deserved only death.
I agree though that from that point on Rorschach could no longer see any form of grey. He became the judge jury and executioner of all he saw as evil.
@@antonioliles5027 I appreciate your thoughtful response and concur with your statements :)
Roschach's Journal: October 12th, 1985
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face.
The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No".
That dialogue is the most brutal and yet badass that I've ever heard of roshach
@@vicentserrano9268 this quote define what rorchach is
@Rizky Satya You should. It's a masterpiece.
Knowing now what a dog means for rorschach, change a lot the meaning of the first pages of watchmen
... and I'll look down and whisper "Maybe after a hot-pocket." - Deadpool
I kinda have mixed feelings about this movie, but no one can deny that Rorschach is single-handedly the best part about it
@Nickelbackist meinLeben fair enough. Well, besides Silk Spectre. She was a bitch
This is my favourite movie and I must say that I disliked Rorschach at first. His voice sounded too cliched. So Dr Manhattan's and The Comedian's indifference towards human life was the best part of the movie for me.
@@Domasiukas Also a great part imo. The comedian is maybe my 2nd favorite character next to Rorschach. I loved his grey-area type views of the world compared to Rorschach's black-and-white and Jeffery Dean Morgan is AMAZING. Plus I consider his performance the precursor to Negan, who is the best part of The Walking Dead in my opinion
Which cut of the movie did you watch? The one on Netflix is horrendous. The Director's Cut is the way to go.
@@Hot18Shot OG the first time around, my cousin gave me a director's cut copy for Christmas and it is AMAZING
Holy shit, I NEVER considered the idea of the Watchmen film being ahead of its time, because the source material is thirty years old. But you’re right - if the film was released now, ten years after its actual release, people (critics included) would PRAISE Snyder for the film.
It's funny, because I've heard people saying Megamimd was ahead of it's time (which I also agree with) but it makes so much more sense as it Watchmen!
If it had come out after Deadpool and the (current) DCU wasn’t a thing it would have been AMAZING.
Oh, but I think it's quite interesting that Watchmen was the straw that broke Alan Moore's back. Moore swore off adaptation of any of his comic book works when Watchmen was finished. (Note also: Moore originally intended to kill off characters he despised- but he was forbidden to, so he had to come up with new ones that obliquely referenced his hated superheroes.)
For the record, I rather enjoyed League of Extraordinary Gentlemen as far as the movie was concerned; I thought Moore's original presentation in the comics was bizarre and disgusting. Moore represents for me the worst smart alecky, satirical, sardonic and bitter views of England about society, and well, I'm from the U.S., and I don't share his piss and vinegar attitude.
people don't like it because it's so much worse than the book its based on. It should never have been adapted, but if it was they should have held the release until just after End Game's -- put the super heroes in a coffin right when the public is ready to turn on them again, and update it a la Apocalypse Now to comment on the current state of the world, rather than try to make a shot for shot adaptation (while at the same time bafflingly ruining the ending) so that it could stand on its own.
@@jblue1622 liked the movie. Not perfect. But best anyone could muster
"Men get arrested. Dogs get put down!"
The best lines have truth to them. I love it.
that why i like thanos bechus some of his quotes are ture its just so true and same goes for heath legders joker bechus some of the lines are just so true
Adde Stj because*
@@addestj9535 I feel the same about darkseid.
why dogs tho
Psychiatrist: Gives Rorschach a Rorschach test
Rorschach:" is my face a joke to you"
"what do you see?" " my face, give it back"
Tell me Doctor!!! What so you See??
This movie is extremely underrated
Agreed, my absolute favorite film
it's underrated because it's so so so much worse than the comic. They changed the ending so that Ozymandias becomes a straight up villain instead of the main hero of the story. In the book it's this profound realization that his plan was perfect -- it may have been the only way to avoid nuclear war -- but ultimately he's still a monster who killed millions of people across the globe, and you have to wrestle with the clash of ideals and the cost of peace. In the film he's a bad guy with a dumb plan who blows up a city because he's dumb enough to think the world will unite against a being as powerful as God, instead of langouring in worse nihilism than before. It's not a bad movie, but it IS an insult to its source material.
Max Roderick thank you so many people congratulating Zack Snyder for his great lines or camera direction when it’s a DIRECT copy of the graphic novels style but a mutilated version of it and it makes me sad nobody has the attention span for the book and think this movie is the fucking same in terms of contact it’s so stupid
And also unnecessarily long
@@tetryst I will respectfully disagree.
In the film Ozymandius is still portrayed as the hero monster that killed millions to save billions. He doesn't just blow up a single city, instead targeting many of the worlds great metropolises. This is shown in the same way as the comic in the bank of screens on his Antarctic base.
Of course the film he goes about it differently by directly implicating Dr. Manhatten. This is to me a slightly better, more plausible (if you could call it that) method than the genetically modified chimera and its phychic shockwaves triggered upon its death. A movie has to be shorter than a graphic novel and compromises need to be made. And this was a clever one in my opinion.
In addition I do not think that many would consider Dr. Manhatten to be a god after that inverview that implicated him in the deaths of Wally Weaver and Janey's cancer. For all his power he was shown to be very fallible, unstable and thanks to Ozzy, potentially very dangerous to just be around. All very useful if you want to convince people he has turned on humanity.
I never noticed before that Jackie Earle Haley never blinked. Good eye, man. (As it were)
Jackie Earle Haley is freaking perfect in this movie
Haley did amazing work with his body by being Rorschach, and the little time that we actually see him as Kovacs, he absolutely NAILS it
Walter's mother even comments on it....calls him a freak for just staring at her like that, never blinking. Soooo.......
Cullen Nash he actually does blink ironically right after the narrator makes his point the next cut to Rorschach shows him blinking
Blinks at 2:43 no?
The acting in this movie is just perfect. Rorschach, Manhattan, Ozymandias all of them have no flaw.
I would replace ozymandias with The Comedian
Daniel Almodovar Rico Funny since Zack Snyder said that he wanted the acting in Watchmen to seem kinda wooden, cheesy and exaggerated. He said that he had a hard time getting the actors to “unlearn acting”.
@@beaststarsmusicchannel8980 then it was silk Spectre who did it better ,cause it was weird
Ozymandias was pretty great. Literally the only flaw with him was his physique and look, but they turned his look more into a play on the Burton/Schumacker Batman films with a touch of the Greek physique aspect than what he had in the comics. Which still worked.
@@danielalmodovarrico8134 You must've only seen the *theatrical cut.* She's better in the *Director's Cut.* Personally, I thought Patrick Wilson did an "eh" job for his character. Some of his lines are just.... Flat, and unconvincing. Here are two examples:
1. Dan to Laurie - "What's wrong?"
Laurie - "I left Jon"
Dan (this is the line) - *"Oh, God. I'm so sorry."*
He's nearly robotic when he says that....
2. *(Exclusive to the Director's Cut/Ultimate Cut)* Dan to Laurie - "Plus, there were enough other guys doing this so that I didn't feel ridiculous about it."
Laurie - "Like Hollis."
Dan (this is the other line) - *"Yeah. Yeah, he was my hero."*
He's nearly robotic *again....*
He's fine, for the most part, but he's also lacking in many emotional areas. That or, like *Rose Mohseni* mentioned, that was completely intentional, given that Snyder himself apparently said that he wanted the acting to "seem kinda wooden, cheesy and exaggerated." If this is actually the case, then I don't think that was the best decision, although I could be missing something, which is entirely possible.
All this, but also he tells the shrink exactly what he felt.
“Tremors of impact shook my arm. Warm blood splashed my face.”
Painted the scene in a physical sense while not showing it.
in the graphic novel he kills the dogs with the cleaver, which is where that quote comes from - when the kidnapper comes home Rorschach handcuffs him to the stove and then sets the building on fire and hands the kidnapper a hacksaw 'if you start now you might be able to cut your hand off before you burn' (Mad Max end scene reference here). Then Rorscach goes outside and watches the building burn, this is the point where he makes the 'god doesn't make us kill' quote
@@richardhockey8442 He does kill the dogs in the movie, too. The act of him doing it isn't shown, but there is a shot of a dog's hacked-open face that immediately follows a shot of an inkblot, like in the comic.
Rorschach might be one of the most tragic heroes in fiction. The guy had a traumatic upbringing and every reason to become a force of evil but even then he strived to do good, to bring justice into the world. But even then, the darkness of the world he tried to save wouldn’t let his idealism exist, it tore him down and forced him to become an extremist. Astounding character.
Pure wholesomeness, on/in a level of The Old Testament.
best scene:
'none of you seem to understand:
I am not locked in here with you,
you are locked in here with me!'
Slow your flow bitches, Imma fuck you up.
Yup
Fax
Looks like Rorschach has been taking notes from Doomguy
@@The_Monkey_Prince But Watchmen did it first?
I always was told Watchmen was bad but then i watched it and i throughly enjoyed it. Rorschach and Dr.Manhattan were done really well and the film is gorgeous
Jonathan De La Cruz No actor can be better than Dr. Manhattan's
Whoever told you that is an idiot who's opinion shouldn't be trusted on anything.
Whomever told you that probably thinks Thor 3 is a masterpiece and winter soldier is the best super hero movie of all time.
@@samsaraslight8377 tbf Winter Soldier is a damn good movie
The Manhattan ending of the film makes more sense than the SQUID in the book.
Zack Snyder is incredibly talented at adapting stories directly, like 300 and Watchmen. He needs to stick to that.
Your Resident Ginger lmao but remember BvS that was shit and it’s an adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns
EL R not a direct adaptation though
@@elr6212 I honestly loved BvS, I thought it was great imo
Naw, he's great at other shit. People are just fuckin degenerates.
@@elr6212 no its not it took some aspect like batman being a much older batman and more violent but aside from that nothing from bvs is like the dkr storywise vistually zack took some shots from the book but that was not an adaptation. have you even read or seen the movie of the dark knight returns.
I also love the line “never compromise, not even in the face of Armageddon”
Tylon The Ninja it’s supposed to paint him in a bad light
Its a line i took to heart.
Burn the planet to uphold your personal honor?
Not any one mans place to choose death for so many.
Not right for Ozzy, not right for Rorschach.
I'll cut this line into my vows
@@Carthodon Telling the people about it wouldn't bring those people back from the dead, but it would probably get a lot more people killed once there's nothing stopping the two super powers from going at it again.
I loved Watchmen. Rosarch had to be the best part, his story, reasoning and thought process was potrayed amazingly. Props to the actor who played him
I'm glad they didn't release at this time cause they might do something to ruin it because of the influence of Marvel's funny style. Watchmen has almost no jokes at all.
I agree, and when it does have jokes, they definitely hit harder because you don't expect them every thirty seconds.
Thoi Manh
The Comedian has jokes the entire time he was on set.
Human bean juice was pretty funny tho
There was a comedian for God's sake and his whole perspective that the world was nothing more than a big bad joke was a hard hitting one,, a joke nonetheless
@laz kar Yeah, the thing is Watchman is a deconstruction of the Superhero genre. It's hard to have people respond well to deconstruction when they aren't intimately familiar with the genre being deconstructed, as most people weren't in 2009.
After a decade of Superhero movies I think the world would really be primed right now for movies to take the same kind of deconstructionist turn that comic books took in the mid to late 80s.
Unfortunately the result will probably be the same as it was in the comics industry- yo'd get a spate of really good movies adapting the best comics from that time, then the hacks would move in and not really understanding why those things were so good would just copy the style and not the substance, leaving us with a bunch of "Dark and Gritty" movies where the heroes are barely restrained psychopaths and the body count in an average movie would make WWII look like a Sunday picnic.
And of course these days it would have a nice layer of SJWism and Grrrrrrl power layered on top.
This movie seems to get more praise as time goes on. It's SO good and so underrated - way ahead of its time. I love both the movie and book, btw.
Another super subtle, cool detail you didn't mention is that in the book, when you read Rorschach's dialogue when his mask is off, or it's a flashback scene, the dialogue in his word bubbles are a regular font. However, all dialogue taking place chronologically after the incident with the young girl (and his mask is on) is always angular/italicized, to emphasize his crazed mental state.
The detail in both the book and movie are amazing!
Zach so true
Zach cause now this is on of the few superhero/vigilantes movies that is just dark without stupid jokes
I disagree. I think this movie misses the point of the graphic novel and Snyder just did a very superficial and dumbed down version of the novel
@@davideguida3186 being dark doesn't mean being good. And being comedic doesn't mean being bad. It's just a tonal choice and if you've ever read a DC comic in your life you would know that most of them are not dark. In fact superhero comics were first created for kids so there goes your point
Los Pollos Hermanos I disagree having read the graphic novel and watched the movie. There are limitations to both mediums but the novel’s ending with the squid being is just so convoluted. Even in the book it doesn’t make much sense.
The book has more time to go into parallels with the in world pirate comic(name escapes me atm) and can explain a few things more thoroughly.
While the movie certainly gives better voice through body language score etc.
I’d say it wasn’t well liked at first because despite its limitations it wasn’t dumbed down like some super hero movies. Most people that were disappointed expected another capes crusader pop corn movie.
The trailer got me so excited I actually read the book first. I certainly don’t think they skipped much that wasn’t worth skipping.
I love when Rorschach expresses “i use to let them live” you hear the pain & regret in his voice. Almost how someone is suppose to feel after they killed someone. His acting is amazing cause you feel & almost empathize with the darkness.
JE Haley is one of the best character actors of his generation. Vastly underrated.
According to Snyder while filming this scene Haley was ill and had a fever. I always noticed how minimal his mouth movement is when he talks to the psychiatrist and wondered if it was an actor's choice or it's specific to the character, or it's just how Haley talks naturally. Can't get enough of his performance.
Heard about the animated watchmenthats supposed to be coming up.
I hope they get J.E. Haley and Patrick Wilson reprise their roles.(wouldn’t mind J.D. Morgan and glen ellis returning as well)
Watchmen is hands down th best superhero movie ever made. It’s such a realistic approach to how a masked vigilante would actually react and go about his crime fighting.
I disagree, it completely misses the point of the original comic
@@lospolloshermanos6800 it nevertheless accomplishes its goal, or mistakingly accomplishes a different goal, with flying colors.
@@davecrupel2817 Well, yeah, it was successful at misrepresenting the graphic novel. Awesome job, Snyder
@@lospolloshermanos6800 people like you is the the reason why Gorge Lucas rewrote Starwars episode II. And the reason why he sold it to Disney.
Its people like you, bro. People like you is the reason why we dont have Darth JAR JAR.
@@guineapig1016 Why are you talking about Star wars now lmao
The lighting, camera work, pacing, editing, acting and everything else is beyond describable for me. This scene really is powerful and tells so much in so little time. Gosh, I have to find some free time to watch Watchmen now. How come that you always explain everything so perfectly.
"God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Possibly my favorite line of cinema ever.
In the graphic novel Walter Kovach *did* become Rorschach when he realized what the dogs were fighting over. He says it: "It was Kovacs who said "Mother" then, muffled under latex. It was Kovacs who closed his eyes. It was Rorschach who opened them again."
Jackie Earle Haley as The Question in the DCEU would be perfect.
Well Rorschach was created because alan moore couldn't get the rights to the question.
@@TBDF12 absolutely right.. He looks like question.
The Question read the Watchmen novel and tried modelling himself on Rorschach. His opinion? "Rorschach sucks."
I'm not the biggest Zack fan, but Watchmen is one of my favorite superhero movies, especially because of JEH and his Rorschach.
I love Rorshach so much. Jackie Earle Haley's depiction of the character was fantastic. I'm not gonna spoil the ending even though the movie came out 10 years ago meaning ya'll should have watched it by now. It pissed me off.
Edit: Love you Browntable, give me a heart you selfish bastard LMAOO.
Love ya too man 👌
Same and I think I have a crush on rorschach lol 😂
That's how it ended in the comic, except no Nite-Owl watching
Thought most of the movie was well done...Didn't like what they did with the industrial leaders prior to Ozzy's assassination set-up, and they totally botched the ending which gave the Graphic novel ending so much more meaning, but I agree...for the most part, they kept Rorschach one of the most interesting characters. There is a 6 hour version somewhere I saw on cable that almost matches the graphic novel scene by scene, inserting the "Black Freighter" sequences in the right spot and has the entire sequence between the kid and the news stand owner as well.
Why would it piss you off? It's a perfect ending as far as I'm concerned. Certainly better than the graphic novel.
My favorite scene was dr. Manhattan’s backstory on mars! It was a slow and peaceful scene with gorgeous music and it’s just something you don’t see in a comic book film
Loved that scene too, although it was quite condensed compared to the original book.
Please check out Watchmen Motion Comic - Chapter 4 for comparison, as it gives fascinating insight on how a being like Dr. Manhattan experiences existence.
I agree, that was a really powerful scene and a powerful line. My personal favourite is when he bathes the would be assassin in hot oil and say, "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me!" That made the movie for me, I swear.
I have to advocate for the graphic novel having the edge in this scene. I disagree fundamentally with the "the pacing is up to the reader" comment because Gibbons, though his use of many panels to show Rorschach's movements throughout the space, keeps the pace of the piece consistent. The complete lack of voice over until the end forces the reader to stay in the middle of the visuals. The attention to the direction is great and mirrored heavily in the film, with the cinematography keeping these calm angles that allow the reader to place focus where they deem fit. I feel like the foible that dooms the Snyder version of the scene is Rorschach's method of dispatching the criminal here. In the comic we don't focus on him fidgeting during a confession or have any real conversation with the kidnapper, because that isn't how Ror operated, even back then. He isn't one to show his emotions properly, it's even tied to his backstory. His conflict is shown through how he kills. He gives the man an option, an ultimatum. He straddles that psychological line to keep himself justified. He doesn't just go berserk and break his whole persona down. The scene isn't about a hero becoming Rorschach, it isn't about Walter becoming Rorschach, it is about Rorschach becoming Rorschach. He keeps himself composed and whole through this crucible, and, by not "killing," but rather presenting someone with a vengeful choice, he begins to warp that persona. He begins this descent that Alan Moore wanted to make clear that all heroes would make.
"Sorry, all out of mercy" - Ghost Rider
That is what I thought of when watching this.
and the best of the best
"I'm not locked in here with you, YOU ARE LOCKED IN HERE WITH ME!"
I'm so happy someone finally touched on this scene. I've always said this part is far better in the film due to execution. I also have a different opinion on Zack Snyder. I think while he's not a competent writer on his own I think he's a talented visionary who can not only make beautiful looking films but also can take a brilliantly written narrative and apply a deeper understanding to the story and play with it to make his own art out of a story. He's not a great writer if course and I don't love most of his films but when hes a visionary who applys a deep understanding to a great screenplay that he didn't write, damn he's great.
The last part I think most would agree, at least I do. Sucker Punch showed us that he can't really write but hot damn, he can make visual art.
last movie he wrote was the 300 sequel
Exactly watchmen and dawn of the dead two movies he directed but didn’t write and their his two masterpieces!
Its so wild watching interviews with Jackie Earle Haley because he’s really soft spoken and kind sounding and he seemingly always plays these really intense characters like Freddy Krueger and Rorschach
Ikr, he even voiced Ruvik in The Evil Within, it's a video game but you should definitely check it out as his voice performance is amazing in it.
Best Scene: prison cafeteria
"You're locked in here with me!"
I seriously would want Zack to be a Cinematographer on a Doomsday Clock movie.
Doomsday would be fun but it wouldn't make since
I think the difference between the film and the graphic novel is that, in the graphic novel, you get the sense that Walter Kovacs was NEVER well-adjusted. The film plays it in such a way to imply that Rorschach was a troubled man with a good heart who completely lost himself in that moment. The graphic novel plays the scene in such a way that Walter Kovacs realizes he can’t hide what he’s always believed about human nature, and he stops pretending. It’s calculated and cold. He doesn’t kill the criminal purely out of rage or frustration. He means it when he says “Dogs get put down.” It’s not rage-it’s sociopathic premeditation. The way the scene is adapted completely changes the character. That might make it more emotionally impactful, but that should not be seen as a way to discredit the source material, as its intentions were very different. Alan Moore believes Rorschach is absolutely despicable (and Nite Owl was merely able to look past the aspects of the man that were a problem from the start), whereas Zack Snyder believes Rorschach is the complex beacon of truth (and he was just too rough around the edges to be accepted by society)-and they tailor the character’s writing to elicit those responses.
Yeah, from the way Snyder directs his movies, I low-key think he has a pretty disgusting and reprehensible world view. He might not, but pretty much all of his movies have a character who is portrayed as the ultimate good guy of the story who is hateful, selfish, and violent.
Moore definitely doesn't see the character as absolutely despicable. He is a man of conviction to a fault, but his convictions are noble. He holds up all the ideals good men do -- justice, truth, etc -- but starts to see them as subhumans when they prove that not only can they not reform, but they don't want to reform. He is such a good man that he sees bad men as inhuman, which is why he's worse than all of them -- and his character, which has been so cold and distant seeming the entire story -- well, his mask is taken off at the end after the confrontation with Veidt, and we see him for what he is -- completely driven by impulse and emotion, unable to compromise even with salvation because he knows that when compromise has become a possibility -- when society is in a position to facilitate reform and heal its criminals -- in that world he's an absolutely despicable monster.
Michael Miller Alan Moore has made his unease at people’s idolization of Rorschach and his own feelings about the character very clear in the past. When you consider the time it was written, (I.e. before we knew the Cold War would sort itself out), the idea of Roschach as someone how only sees black and white and who’d undo the only benefit of the atrocity Ozymandias committed was abjectly horrifying. Alan Moore hates Rorscach’s politics, and thinks he’s pretty terrible. The fact that the character has any positive qualities exemplifies the shades of grey that Rorschach refuses to acknowledge, which in and of itself is a condemnation of his worldview. According to Moore, he feels it must’ve been an accident of his writing/framing that people like him so much. I viewed Rorschach in a positive light in my first reading so, after hearing Moore’s word on the subject, he proved his assumption right. Trust me, I was equally surprised.
Max Roderick I don’t mean to do a ‘gotcha’ in response to your argument, but you start by saying Moore doesn’t see Rorschach as absolutely despicable, then you end your argument stating verbatim that by the end of the story Rorschach realizes he’s in a world where he’s an ‘absolutely despicable’ monster. So, in and of itself, you’ve argued the story views the character as despicable.
I do acknowledge that Walter Kovacs is complex, and that’s because he’s written well, but the story goes out of its way to show him as horrifying.
Alan Moore has always been a rather sanctimonious critic of American culture. I wonder what Moore’s take is on his modern, Islamized London. What with its Grooming Gangs, acid splashing attacks and slave auctions in Shariah dominated “No-Go” Zones.
I feel the same way about Zack Snyder, he'll never be one of the greats of cinema but when he gets it right, he gets it really right. He certainly did with that scene and several other scenes in that film. The opening montage was brilliant and the scenes with Dr Manhattan and Silk Spectre on Mars. Also I thought the conclusion of the film actually made more sense than the original comic.
Great insights by the way, you have a new subscriber.
He seems to great at visuals which works well with a story already written, but when it comes to him making creative descisions about how the story itself should go, someone else should do that.
The horror shown by the mask morphing quickly and then stopping the moment he finds the girls leg gives me chills.
"Watchmen" - meh. Rorschach: Possibly the most compelling performance I have ever seen, at least as good as Christoph Waltz as Hans Landa in 'Inglourious Basterds'
Jack Earle Haley is mesmerising in this film. So many dimensions to the Rorschach character. All exploited skilfully by Haley.
100% agree
I think Dr. Manhattan is just as captivating of a performance
I prefer the comic version. In the comic, Rorschach chains the criminal by the arm, then gives him the knife he found on the chopping block; Rorschach sets house on fire and leaves the criminal with a choice; Live or Die. The flashback ends with Rorschach watching the house burn to the ground, the criminal not having been able to do to themself what they did to the victim, and dying for their weakness. Rorschach probably would have taken the criminal in to police custody, sans the arm, if the criminal had the stomach to do it when their own pain was on line.
I agree it’s great, but its kinda ruined by Rorschach saying that the criminal would die anyway from the fire so there’d be no point in cutting his arm off.
Browntable Really I thought escape was a valid option? I forgot the details of that. Well that does spoil it.
its never explicitly said whether he would turn him in, i always read it as an honest offer. but i would take it a step further and say that snyder got this scene (along with alot of the movie wrong). rorschach lighting the house on fire, throws him a hacksaw, and says "you wont have time to cut through the chain." then stands outside watching and when the guy never comes out he realizes he doesn't feel anything. rorschachs own gimmick was always his "black and white" sense of right and wrong. now that his own code accepted his actions causing another man to lose his life, now taking a life exists in his code of ethics. that small scene shows you everything about rorschach and how he becomes who he was. Having him kill the guy in cold blood like snyder chose in the movie ruins all of the nuance and character development for nothing
@@samwallaceart288 Yeah... it was never going to be an option. With the house completely saturated with gasoline, even cutting off his arm would barely give enough time to escape. Regardless, what this vid is saying about the scene is not how it plays out, but how the communication of Rorschach's internal struggle is played out.
Which was also the ending to the first Mad Max film.
Watchmen is one of my favorite movies ever. Especially the Director's cut.
@Studio Autio I don't think so, no. Only the Director's and the theatrical cuts. Have you?
@Studio Autio I remember almost exactly 10 years ago today, I went to go see Watchmen in theaters. And I was blown away by it. I went out and read the graphic novel immediately and was floored by how faithful the movie actually was to the source material. Aside from a few scenes that were cut, and an alternate ending which was changed for obvious reasons, It's honestly insane how closely it mimics the comic. And honestly, the movie's ending is way better than the book's ending. Then the movie came out on BLU-RAY, and then shortly after the Director's Cut released. So I went out and purchased the Director's cut and watched it. Pretty much EVERY scene that was cut from the Book made it into the Director's cut. It's a damn long movie, but if you want the true Watchmen experience You NEED to watch the Director's cut.
@Studio Autio I have seen the ultimate cut its just amazing , everything is in detail
the "unfogetable, thats what you are" song comes to my mind, everytime i hear / read "watchmen"
Studio Autio hehehe... I’ve seeen it 4 hour long movie dawg
Video of Daddy Zack snapping a neck is the best thing I’ve seen all week. Great analysis as always
Lmao thank u ✊🔥
Never agreed with a “morally gray” character like Rorschach. He’s correct in every single way.
Who defines morally Grey,,,
@Stix N' Stones It depends if you read the comic or watched the movie. I read the comic and Rorschach to me is 50/50. The movie lacked depth to his character and cut out his main political ideologies.
@Stix N' Stones It wasn't any agenda by Moore, it was necessary. That sociopolitical commentary by him. In the comic, it is one of things which makes it great.
@Stix N' Stones Lol, without him, the comic medium wouldn't be so great, his comics changed the game. He's a genius even if he seems a little eccentric. Every author has their flaws. Seems like you really hate Moore, huh, what did he do to you? Lol
@Stix N' Stones dude, Moore isn't a communist, he's an anarchist, where are you getting your information from?
Moore still is a great writer, maybe not a good person. Also he didn't shat on Ditko or Stan Lee or Kirby. He rather credited them for their contribution to comics. He credits the people who deserve it, even Frank Miller. He's doesn't seem egotistical, he's weirdly eccentric.
To me 6:07 is the most powerful shot in the whole movie. Which is saying something. The way the Inc in his mask changes so rapidly in his mask as an indication of how utterly shocked and enraged he is as he realizes what he's seeing.
Ripped it directly from the graphic novel. Incredible storytelling.
This scene absolutely creeped me out especially since a few days before I watched this movie, I learned about sex trafficking. It made me so happy when he picked up the knife about to kill the guy.
Rorschach is one of my favourite characters in any media because of the movie. I read the graphic novel and really enjoyed it, but Jackie Earl Hailey took it the extra mile, I loved the movie.
This video is excellent, but I'm still waiting for "Predator (2018) is a masterpiece" 😆
He liked your comment, it’s probably coming
ALEXOP I’m still waiting for “Howard the duck is a masterpiece” 👌
No the predator(2018) is the most piece of shit and garbage in the film, is not a "masterpiece" is just shitting film that's it.
Vicent Serrano
It’s a sarcastic video, genius.
@@vicentserrano9268 please go watch Catwoman is a masterpiece and get back to us
I'm "eh" on most of zack snyder's stuff, but I loved watchmen and specifically rorschach as a character. While I don't necessarily agree with him I admire his conviction.
I love how Walter's eyes look a bit watery after describing it. Not just from not blinking, but the weight of having to remember that last moment before he became a killer.
I used to be the opinion that the scene in the graphic novel was better than the one in the movie because the scene in the movie was gratuitous in its violence. However after watching your video, I am completely convinced that the scene in the movie is as effective if not more so than the scene in the graphic novel because of its emotional intensity. It seems that Alan Moore in writing this scene as well as parts of Watchmen in the style of Stanley Kubrick that emphasizes a cold detachment from the world which can explain how that scene in the graphic novel has Rorschach change in a mechanical manner. Whereas Snyder emphasizes the gratuity of the violence alongside the emotional intensity of it in a manner like Tarantino, Scorsese and other directors of that ilk that deal with gritty material. Awesome video as always!!!
I absolutely agree, it’s different approaches to a similar end. That’s why the film and graphic novel feel somewhat different despite telling the same story
Good memories in this video. I did the visual effects compositing for Rorschach's 3D head in most of this sequence. All those light bounces... it was a nightmare to get those right! Great analysis man! Dug it.
Thank you for your work . Breathtaking visuals.
Woah it was awesome man 🔥
This was a fantastic video. I love Watchmen and this was a great breakdown of one of the best and most intense scenes in the movie. I also agree that it's more effective in the movie than the graphic novel.
That dogbone scene wasn't just him realizing how she died. The two dogs were Ozymandias and Dr. Manhattan and the bone was his understanding. He realized neither would do what needed to be done.
Dude, this break down was fantastic. It's awesome getting to see some of my favorite scenes from my favorite movies broken down by someone who really understands film making. I have a difficult time articulating why it is I like these things, but when a pro breaks it down things start coming together in my head, thanks.
I really don´t like zack snyder. But Watchmen is actually my favorite superhero movie of all time, been a brilliant adaptation of the legendary graffic novel. Love your channel man. It´s obvious you understand what makes a movie work, and you always give the writing the credit it deserves in that regard. Great stuff. Greetings from Spain.
Thanks a bunch, much love 🙏
The hate for Zack Snyder is undeserved, but I love how the man has a vision. I love divisive directors, keeps people talking.
people hate on him as if he likes to murder dogs or some shit
laz kar Never gave a fuck about him and always despised Star Wars, what are you trying to prove?
It's funny because his wife always says that they know they make divisive movies. She said as long as some people like their work they're okay with it.
@laz kar how?
@laz kar I mean there are different interpretions of Supes and Bats. You can hate them or love it, but Star Wars always had one movie serial interpretation. The luke skywalker could never let down someone like ben because he saved his father who was responsible for a fucking genocide and in ep 8 he tries to kill hos nephew because of dark side in his mind. That doesn't make sense in the context of tge saga.
Your movie analysis is second to none. Freaking brilliant man love the channel!
I have a complicated relationship with this film. I watched it way too young and it definitely traumatized me, yet at the same time, it somehow also made me feel so much better about my own great hardships. I sympathized with almost every character's struggles and later I even understood why they made certain terrible decisions from entirely new perspectives. I don't think I'll ever watch it again, but it definitely helped shape me into a more caring person by giving me perspective on how precious even average people are.
Jackie Haley is an amazing actor.
I loved Watchmen, I'm glad to see it getting love! You definitely did a phenomenal job showing why it deserves some praise!
Synder's modifications of this scene work well. Everything you've described is accurate, and the audience is well served by them. However; I feel you've missed something in in how Moore executed the original scene. Moore uses a technique more fully realized in V for Vendetta - he denies us the inner dialog of the character. Yes, we have Rorshach's cold emotionless recounting of that moment, but not Walter's actual thoughts & FEELINGS via cloud bubble as we might in any other comic. The reader is left to cope with their own gut twisting reaction to the crime as a loadstone when we try to imagine how Walter felt as his whole world shifted. It's possibly the last thing he ever felt. That's master storytelling.
I would also argue that if one looks really closely at the panels of Kovacs before and after his transformation, one could perhaps be convinced there is a subtle change in body language.
Rorschach, my favourite satirical take on Batman. If you love Watchmen, you should check out Garth Ennis' The Boys, it's getting an adaption from Seth Rogen, Evan Goldberg, Eric Kripke and Amazon Studios, it very much continues the theme of Watchmen but to an extreme level.
I tried to read the boys but it too vulgar and tried so hard to be edgy. Very bad comic (imo).
I live inside your house That’s kinda Ennis’ M.O.. it’s basically all he does, hahaha. I honestly put it down myself it’s too edgelord.
@@Imperius__Rex The show tones down many of the "edgy and batshit because we can" components, which grounds the series in a far more believable version of reality. It's still dark, still has plenty of black comedy, but the characters feel a bit more real than their comic versions.
my favorite scene?
"you guys don't seem to understand, im not locked in here with you...YOURE LOCKED IN HERE WITH ME!!"
Watchmen is one of my favorite graphic novels of all time and I am also a big fan of the movie. However, I must respectfully disagree that the movie did this scene better than the comic book. The way Rorschach silently, calmly and coldly handcuffs the murderer, burns him alive and watches the house go down in flames was much more chilling for me. His emotionless act of brutal justice was supposed to portray that Walter Kovacs was already dead... only Rorschach remained. The man was no more, all we get to see is the empty husk, a shell devoid of mercy or sentiment; trivial things that keep murderous and evil people free to do what they want... which is why Rorschach is necessary and Kovacs is expendable. Great video though, keep up the great content!
Most actors NEVER blink. It's a good way to tell how well in tune the actor is with his or her method to bringing the character to life. It is physically laboring.
Fantastic video, table boy! Definitely like the balance between BIAM and these kinds of video essays.
Loved the movie.. I'm saddened that Rorshack got killed
I love this movie. But another one of his best quotes from this is in the prison cafeteria, "I'm not locked in here with you, but YOUR locked in here with ME!"
my favorite scene in that movie is "I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me...!"
I hate people
Me too
Watchmen does not get the love it deserves 😔
Great video my dude
Thanks so much man!
Great second episode of Why It Works after Judy’s apartment scenes and deleted scene from Zootopia (2016) on your birthday. Keep up the good work as always.
I kinda want Zack Snyder to use his skills to make a 80’s style action movie, story’s unimportant, the action is front and center
Idk why ppl see Snyder as an action director. Other than 300 his movies are dramas and thrillers with really good action sequences thrown in haha. Like man of steel is pure character moments until the 3rd act. Watchmen again character drama / neo noir with some action thrown in. BvS is mainly character moments with a total of 3 action scenes haha. Like the man is not an action first director. But I would love to see him either return to a 300 type sword and sandal epic or a pure noir film. Maybe a western could be interesting.
I personally am in love with how Dr Manhattan sees time and how it shows him jumping through time. And that line "I feel fear for the last time" in his origin god that was great.
Watchmen is criminally underrated
I love every scene that features Rorschach. Even if it's just a minute long.
“You’re locked in here with me” jail scene was my favorite! Snyder really did his thing with this movie 👌🏾
After reading it multiple times, Watchmen has been my favorite movie since release. You've found a way to make it even better. Def a new sub, and everyone in my group will know your channel. Well done!!!
Watchmen was definitely ahead of its time then. But at such a young age, even I knew what an intelligent film it was. I love it.
dude, that was actually a REALLY good video, thank you for letting me watch such a nice video while having breakfast
Great video can I request something that is near impossible?
Can you do a "why it works" on the bridge scene from the amazing Spider-Man i really love that scene
Thats a great idea! I’ll keep that in mind definitely!
@@Browntable Thanks ❤️
I would love to see Browntable's take on that scene, but in the mean time, you might want to check out Hitop Films' The Almost Amazing Spider-Man video if you haven't seen it already. He talks about the scene a bit and has a great analysis of Peter's arc in the film.
@@lolaa.8161 I'll check it out
I really loved this character's arc and his contorted yet real personality of someone who'd live a life like this.
and I still wonder to this day why in the end he chose to go out as Walter instead of Rorschach.
This is an amazing video, really good job on making the viewer feel as if they were watching an extended cut instead of a UA-cam video
“He literally doesn’t blink”
*shows a clip of him blinking immediately after*
I would watch an hour long video of you talking about all the cinematic techniques and storytelling of this movie
Yea more vídeos like this
Love your channel
I appreciate it! 🙏
This scene had always stuck in my head so masterfully done I sometimes watch it just too see it all happen again I really hope they make a film about em with the same actor
“He literally never blinks” *immediately blinks* lol
That was an eye twitch
Rorschach is one of my favourite heroes. Understands the true nature of our world and tries his best to fix it, while the world pulls him down for trying. It's a mad world we live in and the movie reflects that very well. :] Want more movies like it, very entertaining.