I like how in the book Dr Manhattan was asked why he didn't save JFK and he explained that John was being shot at the same time they first shook hands; meaning that experiencing all time all at once is to exist in a information paradox.
I was thinking about how Dr. Manhattan called himself "a puppet who could see the strings." While he was aware of what was going to happen, he was as powerless to stop it as anyone else, like when The Comedian killed the Asian woman who was pregnant with his child. To quote the Tralfamadorians in Slaughterhouse 5, "The moment was structured that way."
Its interesting when you realize that Dr. Manhattan was by FAR the most powerful being in the Watchmen universe, but he was also the most passive and seemingly uncaring because he literally saw too much. The big picture was all and the little things started mattering less and less to him.
@Sohan Biswas haha not really but good try. At least I'm not insecure enough that I need to answer aggressively to people sharing their feeling about a work of art to feel some kind of superiority. But it's ok, to each his own. Decent people talks about concepts, small people talks about people.
The Watchmen comic is a miracle, totally unrepeatable, and this movie, while clumsy and confused at times works great as a homage. Everybody knows that it cannot be topped, it can only be admired
The book is in a league of iets own, it's unbelievably nuanced, and meticulously planned. And its made to BE a comic about comics. Allan Moore is a legend.
@seb --- Bingo. Also big surprise - a film wasnt as adaptable to a million different minds as a graphic novel. 10/10 still better than almost every other cinema adaptation of graphic novels.
You know, Laurie attacking straight to thr camera could have added a whole new meaning to the scene in a very cinematic way, but we cut away too early for that to work. It would've been great to see the glass shattering from the other side of the glass.
Astupid13NAme - it’s the one case where Nolan’s style of over-trimming, and cross-cutting like a giant montage, would actually be appropriate for the source material.
Nah it sucks man 😂 plus during the "numbness" part… he either doesn’t understand dr.manhattan or… idk… or that he’s not objective enough and he was watching the objective critically since the very first frame… because the movie has some "grant morrison" vibes and the dr manhattan character feeds that. The whole movie feels like a trip and feels like you’re dr manhattan
In the end, the movie made more people who aren't comic fans or Moore fans aware of the graphic novel, and maybe even inspired sales to go up, which might have made them admire the original and see how unfocused the movie is. The graphic novel will never go out of print. That's the best thing about the movie; it's an excellent ad for the novel.
For me, Alan Moore brought me back to comics (I stopped reading when I was a teenager) and made me interested in comics again but... I've not read anything else but Alan Moore either. Well, I did like "The Incal", anything by Mobius Neil Gaiman's Sandman serious and a few Charles Burns comics. But then again, none of those are super heroe comics except for Alan Moore's.
@@leighfoulkes7297 Well, the solution seems simple enough. read other things that aren't Super Hero comics, the medium is too vast and beautiful to reduce it to one genre.
@ He's moved on, I think. I remember being in an audience when someone asked him about the Watchmen a few years ago, and he was over it. He had his magic and his noves. But he just won't get into comics and ask people not to talk to him about his comic book work. Which, you gotta respect the principle/
The movie was not "unfocused" for me. It did make me want to read it, they are different mediums. Every other adaptation would have made many more changes than Zack ever did, which was very few.
"The reality is that for anyone to decide to go out in the streets wearing a costume to beat up criminals, they are inherently weird... This is the point of Watchmen: dressing up in costumes is silly" One of the most basic and central themes to the book that I think both the movie and HBO series missed. This is an excellent video, I think all the points you made here are perfectly presented and spot on
It's the only movie really that has something to do with superheroes that I actually liked. It was amazingly flawed, but at the same time, I liked it. I can't explain why.
Commenter 10 because Zach Synder is a comic fan who loves all the comics and loves watchmen and loves the story but he doesn’t know the theme of the story
@@LuisMartinez-rw2ljso would you elaborate how Snyder doesn't apparently 'understand'... be an extension of the initial comment post of this thread & elaborate.
I remember watching this movie years ago, having no prior knowledge of The Watchmen. After watching this video, I think I'll give the graphic novel a read.
You should read it, it truly is one of the best graphic novels out there imo. Say what you will about him now, but Alan Moore in his prime was a genius, as was Dave Gibbons.
I think like most people there's a complicated relationship with Watchmen, and the musical bits with montage does take some away, but I will say I loved the opening. It was a great way to establish the passage of time, the consequences, and the time period. Zack Snyder did do a great job at that. Just wish it could have been a mini series at least, there's so much intricacy and detail it would never have been able to fit in a film.
The film introduced me to Watchmen. And those opening credits introduced me to Bob Dylan. I’ll always appreciate the film for those two things if nothing else.
18:14 Okay so this muffled, somewhat distorted version of All Along The Watchtower seems ever more chilling. You see the bodies piled and one of the most powerful people in existence saying "he can't do anything" I honestly think there needs to be a remake, but with more gritty but unflattering moments. But the impending doom is perfect. And I think that covers it perfectly. Straight out of a horror film
And yet, I think it's Snyder's best movie. I do admire him for trying to film the purportedly "unfilmable" ones. Both "Watchmen" and "300" are books that fit the feature film format very poorly (for different reasons) but he still went for it and made a surprisingly decent action flick here. I think it does look better when compared to the other Snyder movies than with the original book, though.
Great video. It's very well made, well argued, and quite thorough. I'm inpressed at how well you managed to present the problems I've had with the movie, and even bring more stuff to my attention
14:14 I watched Watchmen in the theaters with friends who had never read the book and they walked out of the theater thinking every Watchmen had super powers. They came out of the movie asking questions like _"Aside from super intelligence does Ozymandias have super speed like the Flash? I mean that scene where there was the attempted assasination he just strolled through those executives before the gunman could even pull the trigger and calmly knocked him out. He had to have super speed right?_ (One also tapped me on the arm and asked _"He's the bad guy right?"_ The MOMENT Adrian appeared with that psuedo Transatlantic-British-German accent and mustache twirling demeanor instead of the sad and troubled man bearing the weight of the world from the comics.) _Did every Watchmen have super strength? Rorschach is coming back right? He must has Wolverine healing abilities since he got up from those vicious beatings? Does his magic mask grant him those abilities? What's the origin behind his magic mask?"_
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it's not like Veidt couldn't catch bullet in comics or Rorschach could walk on Antarctic in coat, or climb building by the rope on his own strenght, or defeat SWAT team with DYI weapons he made on the go. Do at least one of them, see how ordinary that is.
I love the whole idea that Zack Snyder, a libertarian, would make this movie a comic book that bashed libertarian ideas. Rorschach is supposed to be a character based on Ayn Rand ideas (she is a heavy libertarian influence) and Alan Moore turned him into a psychotic mass murdering lunatic that is sexually confused. Alan Moore did show pity on the guy by giving him a real sob story that makes you sympathies with him (he did the same with the Joker) but still, he made it clear that Rorschach was insane pathetic anti-hero.
@@Vapor817 True. But a free alternate cut available on torrent sites from several sources or shared from person to person would make it harder for copy right lawyers to find a target
@ Co-creator? You mean, guy who drew what Alan Moore told him to? I mean, it's no surprise that he liked it, the one thing the movie did somewhat correctly is capture the look of the comics.
@Wandile Mtambo You know what I think? It's not even about the movie. It's about Snyder. Suddenly everyone is rewatching the movie now and they now say it doesn't understand the novel and it's bad While back then it got rave audience reviews. So why that change now? I'll tell you. Because people are trying to find ways to satisfy and justify their hate boner for Zack Snyder because his movies didn't beat Marvel. In other words, fanboy mob logic
@Wandile Mtambo That's not a conspiracy but the truth. Just look at negative review videos like this or the Watchmen doesn't get Watchmen video: 1. Most negative reviews from back then either say it's too long or too boring for a superhero movie. Which make sense for an Alan Moore adaptation from a general audience perspective. Most negative audience reviews from 2017 and forward are following the "Snyder is a hack that doesn't get comics" narrative 2. The comments of these negative videos are moreso about bashing Snyder and re-enforcing the affromentioned narrative than actually talking about the movie 3. Most negative Watchmen review videos came two or three years ago. The point where everybody was hating Snyder because the DCEU failed to beat Marvel These prove that what I say is more than likely correct
i think zack snyder working from the perspective of hollis mason is the only way he could’ve adapted a comic like watchmen as a film and kept (a majority) of its integrity
It's also easy to see it now as a parody of the superhero films that were then being made "gritty" and "real world", its a movie using the same story with some changes as the original story but also making a point about movies like the Dark Knight
@@alexamegiddo2083 which is kind of funny because Snyder would go on to create dark and "gritty" super hero movies that he essentially parodied with watchmen.
That was the only thing about the "adaptation" that disappointed me: the absence of the excerpts of Hollis' book "Under the Hood." I particularly liked how he responded to the question "How does it feel to be a costumed character in real life?" While the contemporary costumes were suppose to look "cool" because that's what the "mainstream audience" would have expected, the idea that wearing a costume in public is just as ridiculous as seeing a middle-aged man wearing a "padded bra" adds a bittersweet note to Hollis' story. Of course, even "Tales of the Black Freighter" was added to an expanded DVD so it's understandable that this would have made this a 4-5 hour film, so I'll just read the book like other people should and not gripe over what wasn't included in the film.
@Cynical Joker It's true that a documentary TITLED Under the Hood was made BASED on Hollis' book but we didn't get to hear an actual excerpt from it. My point was that we fans of the original story can go on and on about what was cut out of the original story that reduced the quality of what we read but most movie-goers aren't going to sit for four to five hours to watch a faithful rendering of a classic novel. You would be the exception rather than the rule.
@@Zuri_SM Zack didn't parody superhero movies with Watchmen so much as he thought it was a cool book and wanted to make it into a movie. I remember reading about how Zack didn't really like comics except for graphic novels like Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns, specifically because of how much darker and grittier they were.
tfw you just finished Watchmen, just started Slaughterhouse-Five, and are in the middle of watching Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex before watching this video. Fantastic essay, and god tier taste, my friend.
You just mentioned the same mass market media everyone else is into, and because you are into it too, you label it “God tier taste”? No wonder most modern criticism and media analysis is dead, aka this is why we can’t have nice things.
@@jnnx What's up with the random resentment towards this guy for enjoying a video essay because it includes works that he has recently read? You don't have to be angry/annoyed because people have opinions that you see as inferior or mainstream. Just let him compliment the creator of the video in peace without spreading unwarranted indignation.
@@jnnx I dont know anyone who is into Slaughterhouse-Five, Watchmen and GitS SOC. You are just an arrogant, elitist brick who thinks he is so much higher above everyone else. If anything killed any form of criticism, its people like you.
I feel like the opening fight between The Comedian and you-know-who sums up the problem with Snyder. First, the comic shows The Comedian is dead before it shows any of the fight itself. When reading the fight scene in the original, I get a feeling of despair and futility. This is a pitiful, broken down old man who is putting up a hopeless fight against a superior opponent. Snyder looks at that, and what he sees is a wicked cool action scene!
Snyder's the apotheosis of the 90s comics. Imitating watchmen but completely misunderstanding it. Seeing all the sex and violence but none of the thought yet still thinking he's saying something.
A lot of people seem to forget how many studios dumped the screenplay and refused to make the movie calling the novel "unadaptable". Of course Snyder had to "action-movie" it up, or else the graphic novel wouldnt have even a shred of the popularity it does now. The movie is just as good as it needs to be to appeal to comic movie fans while adding just enough from the novel to interest hardcore Watchmen fans
@@CODBlackOps6WALKTHROUGH Oh yea, Skeet Ulrich was there and everything, but as Dan O'brien said online gaming really would've ruined Shredder's gangs entire appeal.
And never forget that no film company on the planet wanted to make that it, so it ended up being the highest grossing independent film of all time for a long stretch of the Guinness book of records history. Classic film that is often forgotten nowadays
I think it is a common trope. Someone writes a sad, cynical or nihilistic story. A movie studio make a cool fun movie. The dark meaning is all forgotten; and those in the audience that never read the book enjoy it. I was going to say, 'post modern' but grim fairy tales turned to movies have been written since long before even 'modern' times.
Another amazing video! This taught me some subtle (and not so subtle) differences between film and comic mediums that can’t really be interchanged. Very strong re-edits and a very clever ending! Also loved the montage and dialogue overlay starting at 18:13, it really works!
After finishing this video, I scrolled to see how many views it had.. This piece of work is extremely underrated, you've earned a new sub sir! Amazing film but clearly has it's flaws, of which you pointed out unbiasedly which a lot of people cannot do nowadays with films.
I'd have to agree. A lot of the die hard fans forget that in order to make the film they had to still make it marketable. A direct clone adaptation would have been lost on the overwhelming majority of the movie-going audience. Certainly the film isn't perfect, but it's a much better adaptation than many comics/books have received.
@@XenosSavior A lot of people seem to forget how many studios dumped the screenplay and refused to make the movie calling the novel "unadaptable". Of course Snyder had to "action-movie" it up, or else the graphic novel wouldnt have even a shred of the popularity it does now. The movie is just as good as it needs to be to appeal to comic movie fans while adding just enough from the novel to interest hardcore Watchmen fans.
Understand this, as a filmmaker myself, we are ARTIST. We create as well as adapt. It is in our blood. Now, when comics or books are adapted, it is important to still have creative freedom on the things we adapt. Because if not, we are just stealing a story and saying "I want money from this too". Take batman and take the Dark Knight trilogy. Those were darker than any other Batman comics I read, even the dark ones. But it was Christopher Nolan's dream allied with the Batman stories that made it great. For watchmen, I think Snyder showed Moores work amazingly while also showing his love and potential as a director, and that's why I love it.
For years I was never able to fully articulate the reason why the watchmen movie felt odd to me, thank you so much, this was beautiful! However, I would have also liked if you included that lack in subtlety in small details, like showing the Who Watches The Watchmen sign in full
That's the point. The plan shouldn't have worked, if he was a comic book villain. He would've gloated at the peak timing, to feel the rush of his evil plan come to fruition. Adrien was ten steps ahead of everybody and a literal GOD, and he didn't waste any opportunity to get there. The movie didn't stray from the source material as most people would like it to, for dear nostalgia. It uses violence and gore in a super hero movie, that was never before seen in any other super hero movie that came before. It showed that super heroes was as much human and faces the same problems every other people do in their lives. And the heroes themselves, don't act like your typical super heroes either. It's a brilliant movie, one of the best looking ones too. The pacing is great, the casting is great, you can't imagine another watchmen movie.
I actually like the film for trying to do something different, Snyder's problem though is that he is obsessed with a certain style (slow motion and unnecessary combat). What if Sam Mendes did this film, would it be better? I don't think a faithful adaptation is possible.
I'm writing an essay on film adaptation of other media for school and I'm 200% gonna reference your analysis in this video bro, this is dope, thank you.
We like what you did with the trimmed edit. It was a bit 'naughty' how you ended this video, but we agree. Zack Snyder did a faithful frame-by-frame retelling of the graphic novel Watchmen and in doing so raped the meaning. Accidentally, leaving room for further analysis and appreciation of the source material, rather than the film.
That fucking last clip was poetic and fucking hilarious. Thank you for pointing out the things about this movie that bothered me but I couldn’t quantify
There’s definitely highs and lows for this movie. To anyone that hasn’t watched it yet I suggest watching the movie before reading the book. Shotgunning the book then watching the movie will make you draw comparisons between the two, and the differences will be crystal clear. At least when you watch the movie first, you’ll have an opinion of the film that isn’t biased towards the book, and when you finally read the book you’ll be amazed on how great the story is and how nearly faithful the film tried to be with it
I never thought I would say this but your essay made me think "Snyder was right". I think the comparisons between the movie and comic are perfectly right but I love that the movie works so well as a movie and leaves the parts of the comic commenting on exactly that. Like Alan moore's nightmares of what "regular" people leave his work with ideas of. Art belongs to and individual but every time it is used becomes more homogeneous. Slick but more of a neutral taste. I think whether Snyder was trying to prove this point (which lets be honest isnt)the way the film was made only reinforces the ideas in the novels. What more can I ask for?
Woo I just subscribed and notice you had made a video 5 hours after I did! Your stuff is so great can't wait for more!!! Okay so I wanted to add to your video. I saw the movie before I read the comic and I loved it. It looked cool, aesthetically amazing, it respectfully /tries/ to take its time with scenes/moments, and it made you really care about its characters despite them not being completely likable. However, after I read the graphic novel I was like ".... oh so this is why Alan Moore didn't want his name in the movie." As a stand alone, like you said its done pretty well. But I agree a big flaw was the movie strangely chooses and disregards parts it wants to from the comic. The references fly over audience's head who are not familiar with the comic. It can actually make it distracting not understanding why that happened or this showed up. I think the movie was made just a bit early. Watchmen was made just before the intense wave of mainstream comic influenced movies. Disney is pumping out so many Marvel movies and has turned into a crazy corporate machine (I guess some can argue its always been that way). If Watchmen was made 5 or 10 years after it was originally made, I'm sure it would've been able to use its medium better. Because Watchmen didn't have the wave of Marvel movies, it was a movie adaptation of a comic that was parodying comics. But it was made later, I think it could've done a better job of parodying recent comic movies the way the comic did it to comics.
The Comedian's fight scene/death serves a second purpose, though: Part of his character is that his savagery made him the most effective of the Minutemen. In their youth, he's said to have beaten Ozymandias (who thinks of himself as the perfect man) in a fight. Ozy could have poisoned the Comedian or something, but he showed up to kill him personally as a private rematch. The fight shows that (1) the Comedian is a very dangerous man, (2) Ozymandias' methodical violence trounces C's savagery, and (3) Ozy is still petty enough to want to settle the score.
The whole point of the original scene is that Edward Blake became a pathetic old man who got beaten to death. You’re supposed to feel sick to your stomach watching that scene, slightly guilty and uncomfortable, not bummed that this powerful guy is still losing despite his efforts. This wasn’t meant to be a fight, it was meant to be equivalent to what happened to Nite Owl I. You learn the Comedian was a dangerous man in flashbacks, and his savagery is laid out in contrast to his later senility. That’s the whole point. The whole point is that it’s sad and pathetic. It’s non-aggrandizing. It’s deflating.
@@UltimateKyuubiFox He needs to look dangerous for the scene to work. Regular old people don't do combat rolls in their bath robes or knock holes in their walls. You're not supposed to root for him, but it's not impressive that he got taken apart if he doesn't seem dangerous himself.
I read the graphic novel long before the film, and I knew the film would not be the comic, or truly great. But the film was great in it's own way, and offer's a lot. If general audiences can't or couldn't get something out it, that's their loss & problem.
@bella_-_ the graphic novel has a lot the film didn't have and it's more in-depth. There's also a motion comic of the graphic novel on youtube (they use all the original art).
Jesus, this channel is criminally under subscribed to. That was one of the best video essays I've ever watched. Seriously, and I have watched a ton Just Write, Lessons from the Screenplay, Nerdwriter, Lindsay Ellis, Every Frame a Painting... on and on. Typing that out I realize I might have a problem... Anyways, that was a wonderful watch and interesting insights into both the book and adaptation. Also, like you, I read the comic and watched the film. I should, and in some ways do, dislike the film. Yet, for whatever reason, I do enjoy it and have watched it multiple times and felt entertained. I think that might be the problem. It succeeds at being an entertaining film but fails at being a deep philosophical masterpiece like the material it's adapting. Which, in all fairness, might be too high and expectation to place on anything but that begs the question, "Why would you adapt it at all if there's no way to maintain or improve the quality?" The answer, obviously, is money. It's always money. The fans of the book are a in built audience that will do the leg work of getting word out about a film being made if it's a property that they love. That's always a good place to start for any project. That's one of the reason superheroes are so popular at all. (Hot take, I know, right?) Though I completely fall for it every time. Right now it's "His Dark Materials" for HBO. If you've read the books you know how good the story is and if you haven't then I'm telling you, right now, that you should. (I'm proselytizing a story that's anti-proselytizing.) So, TLDR, I love your channel, your analysis, and the media you choose to discuss. I don't like your sub count. It needs to be way, way, way higher and now I'll not rest until I do some legwork to make you more popular!
Whether you like this movie or not depends on order you watch it.. For example... you'll just love this movie no matter what, when you watch the movie first. And if you read the comics first..then congratulations you'll hate this movie to the guts!
I noticed that in the graphic novel several times Rorschach will be speaking while the panels will be showing something unrelated, almost like a narration within the novel.
To me the biggest offender of Snyders MO clashing with the sources intention is the apartment fire scene. In the novel, NO ans SS fly down in Archie, squirt a little fire suppressent, and SS helps the civilians on Archie via a plank. Once on, NO plays some easy listening music to calm peoples nerves and SS brews coffee for everyone. in the film, NO shoots a BADDASS MINIGUN at a water tower and SS BREAKS THROUGH THE ROOF SUPER EPIC STYLE WITH FIRE BEHIND HER, they help the civilians on and SS OUTRUNS A FUCKING FIREBALL IN SLOW MO AND JUMPS ON ARCHIE JUST IN TIME LIKE A BOSS!!! NO and SS were meant to just be well-equipped good Samaritans who treat saving people like a normal public service, not the gang from the later F&F movies
Also Rorschach's apartment jump, which is heavily glorified in the movie but is just depicted as a desperate man jumping to save himself in the graphic novel.
I do agree that there was a bit of a missed opportunity with 'Watchmen' by not making it a more meta-commentary on superhero films. BUT a counter-point to that argument is that superhero films where not as oversaturated in 2009 as they are now, so that kind of retrospective criticism doesn't hold too much weight.
The movie gets flack for paling in comparison to the book - and the comparison of course can't be avoided - and the odds were stacked against Snyder from the start when he decided to adapt one of the greatest comic books of all time - but, taken on its own, the movie is a fun piece of surface-level entertainment. Snyder missed the point of the comic, but at least he understands that a movie is, above all, a show, a spectacle - and with that, he at least delivered as best as maybe about anyone could.
It’s clear that you really give a shit about the source material, but give the movie a fair shake while you’re at it. Here’s hoping Watchmen gets a twelve-part HBO adaptation sometime.
It's crazy, but after watching Watchmen, it actually got me started with comics. That's when I read the Watchmen comic. The comic remains one of the greatest comics of all time, right by Kingdom Come and The Dark Knight Returns. I loved the movie when it came out. Yes, it was long, but the cinematography, the visual effects, as well as the storyline were really top-tier. It's a shame that this movie came out before the superhero-craze in Hollywood. Just like Hancock, Superman Returns, The Fantastic Four and The Incredible Hulk, this movie was panned and not considered serious. But I'm glad that after all this time, these movies are considered great, and in the case of Watchmen, a masterpiece
I get the critique, I just don't think that the movie necessarily has to convey the same message as the original comic book. The movie doesn't take anything away from the comic book and should be enjoyed as it's own piece of media. The movie certainly does work on its own. An occasional weird reference to something from the comic book does not take away from that.
First off, I just stumbled into your channel and have so far been absolutely delighted with your content. I love finding a creator before they get popular. Nothing is more tragically pretentious than being a UA-cam Hipster like myself. Anywho keep up the good work. Second, I never read the comic. Caught the movie while it was steaming on HBOgo a while back and enjoyed it. Proceeded to download the Directors Cut because more is always better I thought. I couldn’t make it through. If I knew the source material I might could have at least appreciated it, but the pirate cartoon absolutely killed the pacing. I never finished it.
you dont hate the movie.... because its still one of the most competently directed superhero movies out there, something people leave out so they can hate on the snyderman i know you won't see this, but its the truth. the movie isnt perfect, but neither is the sometimes not serious enough mcu films like thor ragnorak where death of family members isnt treated with the seriousness it demands.
I think it works better than you give it credit for, but I also understand and agree with just about every you've said. I've shown this movie to a few people who have no idea who these characters are, and I myself am not very versed in it, and only know then second hand, not from their own comics, but through the media I watch and consume, and I've yet to have people not understand the majority of the concepts and ideas. Does it lose a lot of stuff from the comics? Sure. Could it be better or fixed or made to stand alone? Sure. But it doesn't have to, it still works how it is, and it's a great movie honestly.
I think you’re forgetting this is a big budget production 3 years in the making . Making it “flashy” and “cool” was probably a decision on behalf of the idea that THEY NEED TO SELL TICKETS AND SEE RETURN PROFITS. Silver screen adaptions can’t satisfy every fan fict writer with a hard-on. This film has more W’s than L’s, I think we can leave it at that.
A Olson it bombed? It was his second biggest box office success behind 300. Made 55 million opening weekend? Cost around 135m to make and it made 185m by the end of its theater run. Even critiquely it isn’t poorly rated. If you mean fan reception? Sure core fans of the original graphic novel were ‘disappointed’ but the movie was more than fan service IMO.
This channel is criminally underrated. Amazing video, helped me understand more about what was missing from the adaptation aside from simple cuts for time. Subscribed my dude keep it up
This totally explains why I felt during Watchmen like it had deeply fascist undertones. Alan Moore originally sought to deconstruct superheroes by making them flawed, contemptible human beings you wouldn't want to meet in real life. Moore saw their propagandistic origins as ugly, and therefore made these people seem unheroic and sad. Losers, sadists, outsiders, and narcissists. Snyder instead glorified them, all while amplifying the spectacle of brutal violence. It's exactly the opposite of Moore's intent.
That Village People/Ziggy Stardust analogy is ridiculous. Neither were walking around getting milk or doing their taxes. They were literally figments of popular culture that establish unattainable escapist fantasies of fulfilling creative existence. They are quite literally the closest thing we have to superheros.
I want to congratulate you on making the one video essay on watchmen that opens saying explicitly why it is essentially a comic book, why the form of watchmen can't be divorced of it's content, explaining the best formal exercises of Gibbons and Moore, and the comic book history that informs what Moore means with the story. And for all of this to be included in half of a 20 minute video shows how a good lecturer you are. I would disagree with your take that Dan's breakdown is an improvement, i think it is one more example of the script and direction guiding the characters to a more heroic version of themselves. In the comic, the fact that all those colorful super heroes were so scared of the nuclear Armageddon that they prefered to go along Veidt's plan (after some hesitation, of course) instead of doing what we morally expect of a super hero, and that the deranged and psychotic Rorschach is the only one who acts "heroically", but it comes out of his unpractical and dangerous moral absolutism, that we have seen before informing horrible acts by him, is very much part of what Watchmen wants to say about super heroes. I think it is incoherent for movie Dan to be so antagonizing and self confident towards Veidt and to still be part of the conspiracy to keep his "utopia". I also disagree about Holis Mason's death. The point of it, much like the Comedian's death, is to show how the violent lives of these weird people end violently, and without glamour, the comic putting Hollis beating side by side a romanticized Golden Age like comic fight to explicitly put in question the violence. In the movie's death scene, Mason is glorified. Loved the video, wish you the best!
Compared to Marvel and DC movies, Watchmen isn't like comic book movies. I like the scene where it goes in slow motion to show Rorschach using the aerosol as a flamethrower; It looks so ridiculous and comical
I like how in the book Dr Manhattan was asked why he didn't save JFK and he explained that John was being shot at the same time they first shook hands; meaning that experiencing all time all at once is to exist in a information paradox.
Didn't know what a information paradox was, now i do, many thanks internet stranger
I was thinking about how Dr. Manhattan called himself "a puppet who could see the strings." While he was aware of what was going to happen, he was as powerless to stop it as anyone else, like when The Comedian killed the Asian woman who was pregnant with his child. To quote the Tralfamadorians in Slaughterhouse 5, "The moment was structured that way."
@Sohan Biswas appreciating an evocative sentence sure is more childish than treating people as shit because they do!
Its interesting when you realize that Dr. Manhattan was by FAR the most powerful being in the Watchmen universe, but he was also the most passive and seemingly uncaring because he literally saw too much. The big picture was all and the little things started mattering less and less to him.
@Sohan Biswas haha not really but good try. At least I'm not insecure enough that I need to answer aggressively to people sharing their feeling about a work of art to feel some kind of superiority. But it's ok, to each his own. Decent people talks about concepts, small people talks about people.
“The film is Eyes Wide Shut, while the book is the parody from Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia”
Genius!
I've always compared what Boogie Nights is to porn Watchmen is to the super hero genre.
@Michael Freed If you think that's perverse you need to get off the internet. NOW
IM THE TRASH MAN
"You can't tell under the mask."
"I absoLUTELY can tell under the mask!!"
The Watchmen comic is a miracle, totally unrepeatable, and this movie, while clumsy and confused at times works great as a homage.
Everybody knows that it cannot be topped, it can only be admired
The book is in a league of iets own, it's unbelievably nuanced, and meticulously planned. And its made to BE a comic about comics. Allan Moore is a legend.
@seb --- Bingo.
Also big surprise - a film wasnt as adaptable to a million different minds as a graphic novel. 10/10 still better than almost every other cinema adaptation of graphic novels.
This comment is exactly what I always thought 👏
Settle down, its slightly above average at best n
Anro Burger If only Charlie Kaufman adopted the movie...
You know, Laurie attacking straight to thr camera could have added a whole new meaning to the scene in a very cinematic way, but we cut away too early for that to work.
It would've been great to see the glass shattering from the other side of the glass.
dude, that edit you did where Dr. Manhattan voices over the meeting between Lori and Dan while changing scenes was smooth af
Astupid13NAme - it’s the one case where Nolan’s style of over-trimming, and cross-cutting like a giant montage, would actually be appropriate for the source material.
@@samwallaceart288 not only that, it especially works with Dr. Manhattans character since time is essentially irrelevant to him.
My thoughts as well!
@@samwallaceart288 But Nolan had nothing to do with this film
Indeed... After watching bvs and this video, i think it's slick af, why didn't Zack do this?
I love your re-edit at 13:40
Makes it feel like you're peering through time with Dr. Manhattan
Nah it sucks man 😂 plus during the "numbness" part… he either doesn’t understand dr.manhattan or… idk… or that he’s not objective enough and he was watching the objective critically since the very first frame… because the movie has some "grant morrison" vibes and the dr manhattan character feeds that. The whole movie feels like a trip and feels like you’re dr manhattan
In the end, the movie made more people who aren't comic fans or Moore fans aware of the graphic novel, and maybe even inspired sales to go up, which might have made them admire the original and see how unfocused the movie is. The graphic novel will never go out of print. That's the best thing about the movie; it's an excellent ad for the novel.
For me, Alan Moore brought me back to comics (I stopped reading when I was a teenager) and made me interested in comics again but... I've not read anything else but Alan Moore either. Well, I did like "The Incal", anything by Mobius Neil Gaiman's Sandman serious and a few Charles Burns comics. But then again, none of those are super heroe comics except for Alan Moore's.
@@leighfoulkes7297 Well, the solution seems simple enough. read other things that aren't Super Hero comics, the medium is too vast and beautiful to reduce it to one genre.
Yup I read the novel first but only because I had heard of it through the film coming out.
@ He's moved on, I think. I remember being in an audience when someone asked him about the Watchmen a few years ago, and he was over it. He had his magic and his noves. But he just won't get into comics and ask people not to talk to him about his comic book work. Which, you gotta respect the principle/
The movie was not "unfocused" for me. It did make me want to read it, they are different mediums. Every other adaptation would have made many more changes than Zack ever did, which was very few.
"The reality is that for anyone to decide to go out in the streets wearing a costume to beat up criminals, they are inherently weird... This is the point of Watchmen: dressing up in costumes is silly"
One of the most basic and central themes to the book that I think both the movie and HBO series missed. This is an excellent video, I think all the points you made here are perfectly presented and spot on
I think the HBO series does a way better job. For example: Adrien looks fucking silly when he wears his costume in the HBO series.
Strange how I keep catching you in the comments cuz
@@TJMaxximalist We gotta stop meeting like this...
@@jaredcress4328ye the movie totaally missed that.
Considering Reznor is now scoring the series, it's quite a lovely coincidence that an excerpt of "Pilgrimage" kicks in at about 8:14.
It's the only movie really that has something to do with superheroes that I actually liked. It was amazingly flawed, but at the same time, I liked it. I can't explain why.
He's the one
Who like all our pretty songs
And he likes to sing along
And he likes to shoot his gun
But he don't know what it means
Hey, this smells pretty good.
damn. kurt cobain ended snyder’s career before he even got started.
Commenter 10 because Zach Synder is a comic fan who loves all the comics and loves watchmen and loves the story but he doesn’t know the theme of the story
No set of lyrics describe all those edgy, Rorscach-loving Watchmen misinterpreters better than those.
@@LuisMartinez-rw2ljso would you elaborate how Snyder doesn't apparently 'understand'...
be an extension of the initial comment post of this thread & elaborate.
I remember watching this movie years ago, having no prior knowledge of The Watchmen. After watching this video, I think I'll give the graphic novel a read.
You should read it, it truly is one of the best graphic novels out there imo. Say what you will about him now, but Alan Moore in his prime was a genius, as was Dave Gibbons.
I think like most people there's a complicated relationship with Watchmen, and the musical bits with montage does take some away, but I will say I loved the opening. It was a great way to establish the passage of time, the consequences, and the time period. Zack Snyder did do a great job at that. Just wish it could have been a mini series at least, there's so much intricacy and detail it would never have been able to fit in a film.
The film introduced me to Watchmen. And those opening credits introduced me to Bob Dylan. I’ll always appreciate the film for those two things if nothing else.
18:14
Okay so this muffled, somewhat distorted version of All Along The Watchtower seems ever more chilling. You see the bodies piled and one of the most powerful people in existence saying "he can't do anything"
I honestly think there needs to be a remake, but with more gritty but unflattering moments.
But the impending doom is perfect. And I think that covers it perfectly. Straight out of a horror film
Hands down best Watchmen 'review' on the entire platform
And yet, I think it's Snyder's best movie. I do admire him for trying to film the purportedly "unfilmable" ones. Both "Watchmen" and "300" are books that fit the feature film format very poorly (for different reasons) but he still went for it and made a surprisingly decent action flick here. I think it does look better when compared to the other Snyder movies than with the original book, though.
Holy shit that edit of the Jon/Laurie/Dan scene is great
Your edit made it seem ominous, the song and Laurey's entrance made it much more hopeful. Like something new, which was exactly the point.
Great video. It's very well made, well argued, and quite thorough. I'm inpressed at how well you managed to present the problems I've had with the movie, and even bring more stuff to my attention
14:14 I watched Watchmen in the theaters with friends who had never read the book and they walked out of the theater thinking every Watchmen had super powers. They came out of the movie asking questions like _"Aside from super intelligence does Ozymandias have super speed like the Flash? I mean that scene where there was the attempted assasination he just strolled through those executives before the gunman could even pull the trigger and calmly knocked him out. He had to have super speed right?_ (One also tapped me on the arm and asked _"He's the bad guy right?"_ The MOMENT Adrian appeared with that psuedo Transatlantic-British-German accent and mustache twirling demeanor instead of the sad and troubled man bearing the weight of the world from the comics.) _Did every Watchmen have super strength? Rorschach is coming back right? He must has Wolverine healing abilities since he got up from those vicious beatings? Does his magic mask grant him those abilities? What's the origin behind his magic mask?"_
it's not like Veidt couldn't catch bullet in comics or Rorschach could walk on Antarctic in coat, or climb building by the rope on his own strenght, or defeat SWAT team with DYI weapons he made on the go.
Do at least one of them, see how ordinary that is.
I love the whole idea that Zack Snyder, a libertarian, would make this movie a comic book that bashed libertarian ideas. Rorschach is supposed to be a character based on Ayn Rand ideas (she is a heavy libertarian influence) and Alan Moore turned him into a psychotic mass murdering lunatic that is sexually confused. Alan Moore did show pity on the guy by giving him a real sob story that makes you sympathies with him (he did the same with the Joker) but still, he made it clear that Rorschach was insane pathetic anti-hero.
How do you know zack is a libertarian. when has he ever said so? are you just guessing and giving ou minsformation
I'd pay money to see your own feature-length edit of Zack Snyder's Watchmen tbh. Those scenes were kickass.
poppyface I agree
RELEASE THE TRIBBLE-CUT
It would have to be free since making money from it directly would attract the lawyers.
@@yyZiggurat even a free version might still attract attention from lawyers
@@Vapor817 True. But a free alternate cut available on torrent sites from several sources or shared from person to person would make it harder for copy right lawyers to find a target
@@yyZiggurat We're all in this together!
"I don't read the words, I just like when he punches people" - Bart Simpson.
"This will look cool" - Zack Snyder.
And that´s why he hired Dave Gibbons to remake the comic in the form of storyboards for this film. Sure fam. Gibbons publically likes the film btw.
@@residentgrigo4701 Such a valid counter to OPs comment!
@ Co-creator? You mean, guy who drew what Alan Moore told him to?
I mean, it's no surprise that he liked it, the one thing the movie did somewhat correctly is capture the look of the comics.
@Wandile Mtambo You know what I think? It's not even about the movie. It's about Snyder. Suddenly everyone is rewatching the movie now and they now say it doesn't understand the novel and it's bad While back then it got rave audience reviews. So why that change now?
I'll tell you. Because people are trying to find ways to satisfy and justify their hate boner for Zack Snyder because his movies didn't beat Marvel. In other words, fanboy mob logic
@Wandile Mtambo That's not a conspiracy but the truth.
Just look at negative review videos like this or the Watchmen doesn't get Watchmen video:
1. Most negative reviews from back then either say it's too long or too boring for a superhero movie. Which make sense for an Alan Moore adaptation from a general audience perspective. Most negative audience reviews from 2017 and forward are following the "Snyder is a hack that doesn't get comics" narrative
2. The comments of these negative videos are moreso about bashing Snyder and re-enforcing the affromentioned narrative than actually talking about the movie
3. Most negative Watchmen review videos came two or three years ago. The point where everybody was hating Snyder because the DCEU failed to beat Marvel
These prove that what I say is more than likely correct
Oh my god, the comparison of the book/movie of Watchmen to Eyes Wide Shut and Always Sunny is so unexpected but so perfect!
i think zack snyder working from the perspective of hollis mason is the only way he could’ve adapted a comic like watchmen as a film and kept (a majority) of its integrity
It's also easy to see it now as a parody of the superhero films that were then being made "gritty" and "real world", its a movie using the same story with some changes as the original story but also making a point about movies like the Dark Knight
@@alexamegiddo2083 which is kind of funny because Snyder would go on to create dark and "gritty" super hero movies that he essentially parodied with watchmen.
That was the only thing about the "adaptation" that disappointed me: the absence of the excerpts of Hollis' book "Under the Hood." I particularly liked how he responded to the question "How does it feel to be a costumed character in real life?" While the contemporary costumes were suppose to look "cool" because that's what the "mainstream audience" would have expected, the idea that wearing a costume in public is just as ridiculous as seeing a middle-aged man wearing a "padded bra" adds a bittersweet note to Hollis' story. Of course, even "Tales of the Black Freighter" was added to an expanded DVD so it's understandable that this would have made this a 4-5 hour film, so I'll just read the book like other people should and not gripe over what wasn't included in the film.
@Cynical Joker It's true that a documentary TITLED Under the Hood was made BASED on Hollis' book but we didn't get to hear an actual excerpt from it. My point was that we fans of the original story can go on and on about what was cut out of the original story that reduced the quality of what we read but most movie-goers aren't going to sit for four to five hours to watch a faithful rendering of a classic novel. You would be the exception rather than the rule.
@@Zuri_SM Zack didn't parody superhero movies with Watchmen so much as he thought it was a cool book and wanted to make it into a movie. I remember reading about how Zack didn't really like comics except for graphic novels like Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns, specifically because of how much darker and grittier they were.
tfw you just finished Watchmen, just started Slaughterhouse-Five, and are in the middle of watching Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex before watching this video. Fantastic essay, and god tier taste, my friend.
You just mentioned the same mass market media everyone else is into, and because you are into it too, you label it “God tier taste”? No wonder most modern criticism and media analysis is dead, aka this is why we can’t have nice things.
@@jnnx What's up with the random resentment towards this guy for enjoying a video essay because it includes works that he has recently read? You don't have to be angry/annoyed because people have opinions that you see as inferior or mainstream. Just let him compliment the creator of the video in peace without spreading unwarranted indignation.
@@jnnx I dont know anyone who is into Slaughterhouse-Five, Watchmen and GitS SOC. You are just an arrogant, elitist brick who thinks he is so much higher above everyone else. If anything killed any form of criticism, its people like you.
@@jnnx this was sad
I feel like the opening fight between The Comedian and you-know-who sums up the problem with Snyder. First, the comic shows The Comedian is dead before it shows any of the fight itself. When reading the fight scene in the original, I get a feeling of despair and futility. This is a pitiful, broken down old man who is putting up a hopeless fight against a superior opponent. Snyder looks at that, and what he sees is a wicked cool action scene!
Thumbz up for giving a gog and avoiding a spoiler
Snyder's the apotheosis of the 90s comics. Imitating watchmen but completely misunderstanding it. Seeing all the sex and violence but none of the thought yet still thinking he's saying something.
Never thought the comedian had any hope watching the movie, his opponent is always clearly superior to him
How? It shows the comedian to be a seasoned fighter but still his opponent is superior to him. You still feel his futility. Even he acknowledges it.
@@arempy5836 certainly not. He understands watchmen and uses to satirize comic book movies.
A lot of people seem to forget how many studios dumped the screenplay and refused to make the movie calling the novel "unadaptable". Of course Snyder had to "action-movie" it up, or else the graphic novel wouldnt have even a shred of the popularity it does now. The movie is just as good as it needs to be to appeal to comic movie fans while adding just enough from the novel to interest hardcore Watchmen fans
The 1990 TMNT movie is criminally underrated. I consider it one of the best graphic novel adaptations of all time.
Then came the Michael Bay movies
was it really? because i loved that film. was that the one where shredder had this really cool club house where kids go and hang out?
@@CODBlackOps6WALKTHROUGH Oh yea, Skeet Ulrich was there and everything, but as Dan O'brien said online gaming really would've ruined Shredder's gangs entire appeal.
And never forget that no film company on the planet wanted to make that it, so it ended up being the highest grossing independent film of all time for a long stretch of the Guinness book of records history. Classic film that is often forgotten nowadays
@@shaderax_storm6165 Didn't Blair Witch beat it just a few years later? Or was that just in return on investment?
I think it is a common trope. Someone writes a sad, cynical or nihilistic story. A movie studio make a cool fun movie. The dark meaning is all forgotten; and those in the audience that never read the book enjoy it.
I was going to say, 'post modern' but grim fairy tales turned to movies have been written since long before even 'modern' times.
I forgot the oxford comma 😕
Another amazing video! This taught me some subtle (and not so subtle) differences between film and comic mediums that can’t really be interchanged. Very strong re-edits and a very clever ending! Also loved the montage and dialogue overlay starting at 18:13, it really works!
After finishing this video, I scrolled to see how many views it had.. This piece of work is extremely underrated, you've earned a new sub sir!
Amazing film but clearly has it's flaws, of which you pointed out unbiasedly which a lot of people cannot do nowadays with films.
I think the opening montage is probably one of my favorite scenes in any movie
I still really love the Watchmen movie
Me too. Not a huge fan of Zak after the whole Justice League thing, but I love Watchmen and think it’s highly underrated.
@@Steef_Lee how he didn't even get to finish it and they also cut out most of the scenes he put in and they reshot many scenes
Lucky you
I think the movie only really works if you've read the comic... But then the inadequacy is clear.
The movie definitely requires multiple viewing
The movie was as good as a hollywood film version of it could be. Its Snyders best film.
"Snyders best film" isn't saying much
I'd have to agree. A lot of the die hard fans forget that in order to make the film they had to still make it marketable. A direct clone adaptation would have been lost on the overwhelming majority of the movie-going audience. Certainly the film isn't perfect, but it's a much better adaptation than many comics/books have received.
@@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan ive been meaning to see that one too, but i liked 300.
Nah 300 is his best film
@@XenosSavior A lot of people seem to forget how many studios dumped the screenplay and refused to make the movie calling the novel "unadaptable". Of course Snyder had to "action-movie" it up, or else the graphic novel wouldnt have even a shred of the popularity it does now. The movie is just as good as it needs to be to appeal to comic movie fans while adding just enough from the novel to interest hardcore Watchmen fans.
This might be the best video essay on the film and book I've seen. Good job!
Not to be a dissenting opinion, but you should defs check out kaptainkristian's video as well!
Understand this, as a filmmaker myself, we are ARTIST. We create as well as adapt. It is in our blood. Now, when comics or books are adapted, it is important to still have creative freedom on the things we adapt. Because if not, we are just stealing a story and saying "I want money from this too". Take batman and take the Dark Knight trilogy. Those were darker than any other Batman comics I read, even the dark ones. But it was Christopher Nolan's dream allied with the Batman stories that made it great. For watchmen, I think Snyder showed Moores work amazingly while also showing his love and potential as a director, and that's why I love it.
Best comment
@@fukusamon4277 Thanks man!
15:32 amazing how following the story lay out and colouring made the movie better
For years I was never able to fully articulate the reason why the watchmen movie felt odd to me, thank you so much, this was beautiful!
However, I would have also liked if you included that lack in subtlety in small details, like showing the Who Watches The Watchmen sign in full
That's the point. The plan shouldn't have worked, if he was a comic book villain. He would've gloated at the peak timing, to feel the rush of his evil plan come to fruition. Adrien was ten steps ahead of everybody and a literal GOD, and he didn't waste any opportunity to get there.
The movie didn't stray from the source material as most people would like it to, for dear nostalgia. It uses violence and gore in a super hero movie, that was never before seen in any other super hero movie that came before. It showed that super heroes was as much human and faces the same problems every other people do in their lives.
And the heroes themselves, don't act like your typical super heroes either.
It's a brilliant movie, one of the best looking ones too. The pacing is great, the casting is great, you can't imagine another watchmen movie.
Your edit made it seem ominous, the song and Laurey's entrance made it much more hopeful. Like something new, which was exactly the point.
I actually like the film for trying to do something different, Snyder's problem though is that he is obsessed with a certain style (slow motion and unnecessary combat). What if Sam Mendes did this film, would it be better? I don't think a faithful adaptation is possible.
i didnt expect to be watching a dozen Jesse Tribble videos this week, but here I am. After the absolutely spot-on House analysis I am hooked.
The ending bit made me laugh out loud. Brilliant video man!
I'm writing an essay on film adaptation of other media for school and I'm 200% gonna reference your analysis in this video bro, this is dope, thank you.
the best chill-hop video essay channel.
We like what you did with the trimmed edit. It was a bit 'naughty' how you ended this video, but we agree. Zack Snyder did a faithful frame-by-frame retelling of the graphic novel Watchmen and in doing so raped the meaning. Accidentally, leaving room for further analysis and appreciation of the source material, rather than the film.
That fucking last clip was poetic and fucking hilarious.
Thank you for pointing out the things about this movie that bothered me but I couldn’t quantify
There’s definitely highs and lows for this movie. To anyone that hasn’t watched it yet I suggest watching the movie before reading the book. Shotgunning the book then watching the movie will make you draw comparisons between the two, and the differences will be crystal clear. At least when you watch the movie first, you’ll have an opinion of the film that isn’t biased towards the book, and when you finally read the book you’ll be amazed on how great the story is and how nearly faithful the film tried to be with it
I never thought I would say this but your essay made me think "Snyder was right". I think the comparisons between the movie and comic are perfectly right but I love that the movie works so well as a movie and leaves the parts of the comic commenting on exactly that. Like Alan moore's nightmares of what "regular" people leave his work with ideas of. Art belongs to and individual but every time it is used becomes more homogeneous. Slick but more of a neutral taste. I think whether Snyder was trying to prove this point (which lets be honest isnt)the way the film was made only reinforces the ideas in the novels. What more can I ask for?
Alright, it’s time to tackle the show and by tackle I mean a video essay about its brilliance
Woo I just subscribed and notice you had made a video 5 hours after I did!
Your stuff is so great can't wait for more!!!
Okay so I wanted to add to your video.
I saw the movie before I read the comic and I loved it. It looked cool, aesthetically amazing, it respectfully /tries/ to take its time with scenes/moments, and it made you really care about its characters despite them not being completely likable.
However, after I read the graphic novel I was like ".... oh so this is why Alan Moore didn't want his name in the movie."
As a stand alone, like you said its done pretty well. But I agree a big flaw was the movie strangely chooses and disregards parts it wants to from the comic. The references fly over audience's head who are not familiar with the comic. It can actually make it distracting not understanding why that happened or this showed up.
I think the movie was made just a bit early. Watchmen was made just before the intense wave of mainstream comic influenced movies. Disney is pumping out so many Marvel movies and has turned into a crazy corporate machine (I guess some can argue its always been that way). If Watchmen was made 5 or 10 years after it was originally made, I'm sure it would've been able to use its medium better. Because Watchmen didn't have the wave of Marvel movies, it was a movie adaptation of a comic that was parodying comics. But it was made later, I think it could've done a better job of parodying recent comic movies the way the comic did it to comics.
The Comedian's fight scene/death serves a second purpose, though: Part of his character is that his savagery made him the most effective of the Minutemen. In their youth, he's said to have beaten Ozymandias (who thinks of himself as the perfect man) in a fight. Ozy could have poisoned the Comedian or something, but he showed up to kill him personally as a private rematch. The fight shows that (1) the Comedian is a very dangerous man, (2) Ozymandias' methodical violence trounces C's savagery, and (3) Ozy is still petty enough to want to settle the score.
The whole point of the original scene is that Edward Blake became a pathetic old man who got beaten to death. You’re supposed to feel sick to your stomach watching that scene, slightly guilty and uncomfortable, not bummed that this powerful guy is still losing despite his efforts. This wasn’t meant to be a fight, it was meant to be equivalent to what happened to Nite Owl I. You learn the Comedian was a dangerous man in flashbacks, and his savagery is laid out in contrast to his later senility. That’s the whole point. The whole point is that it’s sad and pathetic. It’s non-aggrandizing. It’s deflating.
@@UltimateKyuubiFox He needs to look dangerous for the scene to work. Regular old people don't do combat rolls in their bath robes or knock holes in their walls. You're not supposed to root for him, but it's not impressive that he got taken apart if he doesn't seem dangerous himself.
@@Aurich88 It's not supposed to be impressive that he got taken apart.
@@LazyMaybe "RORSCHACH: An ordinary burglar?
Kill the Comedian? Ridiculous."
@@Aurich88 is that line from the comic?
I read the graphic novel long before the film, and I knew the film would not be the comic, or truly great. But the film was great in it's own way, and offer's a lot. If general audiences can't or couldn't get something out it, that's their loss & problem.
@bella_-_ great to read your thoughts! Let me know if you read the graphic novel & whose your fave character.
@bella_-_ the graphic novel has a lot the film didn't have and it's more in-depth. There's also a motion comic of the graphic novel on youtube (they use all the original art).
all of your points are well made, including the point were i still love it
Shame it took almost a year for this to come up in my recommendations.
your re-edits are FANTASTIC holy cow
Jesus, this channel is criminally under subscribed to. That was one of the best video essays I've ever watched. Seriously, and I have watched a ton Just Write, Lessons from the Screenplay, Nerdwriter, Lindsay Ellis, Every Frame a Painting... on and on. Typing that out I realize I might have a problem...
Anyways, that was a wonderful watch and interesting insights into both the book and adaptation. Also, like you, I read the comic and watched the film. I should, and in some ways do, dislike the film. Yet, for whatever reason, I do enjoy it and have watched it multiple times and felt entertained. I think that might be the problem. It succeeds at being an entertaining film but fails at being a deep philosophical masterpiece like the material it's adapting. Which, in all fairness, might be too high and expectation to place on anything but that begs the question, "Why would you adapt it at all if there's no way to maintain or improve the quality?" The answer, obviously, is money. It's always money.
The fans of the book are a in built audience that will do the leg work of getting word out about a film being made if it's a property that they love. That's always a good place to start for any project. That's one of the reason superheroes are so popular at all. (Hot take, I know, right?) Though I completely fall for it every time. Right now it's "His Dark Materials" for HBO. If you've read the books you know how good the story is and if you haven't then I'm telling you, right now, that you should. (I'm proselytizing a story that's anti-proselytizing.)
So, TLDR, I love your channel, your analysis, and the media you choose to discuss. I don't like your sub count. It needs to be way, way, way higher and now I'll not rest until I do some legwork to make you more popular!
Whether you like this movie or not depends on order you watch it..
For example... you'll just love this movie no matter what, when you watch the movie first.
And if you read the comics first..then congratulations you'll hate this movie to the guts!
A pale imitation of a great comic is still good. I can still enjoy the movie yet understand its many shortcomings which you described quite well.
I agree it's a good film even with its flaws.
I hate everyone that says "the book was better" OK read your damn book and shut up. To state the critical obvious: film is a different art form
This is an amazingly detailed and considered video essay. Really enjoyed your points of view!
I noticed that in the graphic novel several times Rorschach will be speaking while the panels will be showing something unrelated, almost like a narration within the novel.
Really fantastic video, man. Felt like you really understood the topic and criticized the movie without bashing it needlessly. Great edits btw
13:43 That transition was one of the best I've ever seen. It's actually perfect.
So essentially, the Watchmen movie is a Cargo Cult watchmen. It replicates the superficial look in an attempt to replicate the deeper meaning.
Great review! I’m also a huge fan of the graphic novel, but I gotta say, I still love this movie
To me the biggest offender of Snyders MO clashing with the sources intention is the apartment fire scene.
In the novel, NO ans SS fly down in Archie, squirt a little fire suppressent, and SS helps the civilians on Archie via a plank. Once on, NO plays some easy listening music to calm peoples nerves and SS brews coffee for everyone.
in the film, NO shoots a BADDASS MINIGUN at a water tower and SS BREAKS THROUGH THE ROOF SUPER EPIC STYLE WITH FIRE BEHIND HER, they help the civilians on and SS OUTRUNS A FUCKING FIREBALL IN SLOW MO AND JUMPS ON ARCHIE JUST IN TIME LIKE A BOSS!!!
NO and SS were meant to just be well-equipped good Samaritans who treat saving people like a normal public service, not the gang from the later F&F movies
Also Rorschach's apartment jump, which is heavily glorified in the movie but is just depicted as a desperate man jumping to save himself in the graphic novel.
That's Snyder for you. He's a manchild.
Zack Snyder basically just wants to everything look cool. Whether it makes sense or adds to the story or not.
I do agree that there was a bit of a missed opportunity with 'Watchmen' by not making it a more meta-commentary on superhero films.
BUT a counter-point to that argument is that superhero films where not as oversaturated in 2009 as they are now, so that kind of retrospective criticism doesn't hold too much weight.
Well, I’m impressed. Great review sir!
I LOVE your alternate edits!
I almost wish you had your own edition of the film with how well those edits work.
The movie gets flack for paling in comparison to the book - and the comparison of course can't be avoided - and the odds were stacked against Snyder from the start when he decided to adapt one of the greatest comic books of all time - but, taken on its own, the movie is a fun piece of surface-level entertainment. Snyder missed the point of the comic, but at least he understands that a movie is, above all, a show, a spectacle - and with that, he at least delivered as best as maybe about anyone could.
Shout out for playing one of my favorite NIИ songs.
Ahh good journalism is another art always in places where you don't expect it. Just like Alan Moore putting his talent in comic book form.
Watchmen was and still is my favorite "Super Hero Movie"
Great video! Loved the re-edits.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the new watchmen series
It’s clear that you really give a shit about the source material, but give the movie a fair shake while you’re at it.
Here’s hoping Watchmen gets a twelve-part HBO adaptation sometime.
I was recommended this exactly 1 year too late.
It's crazy, but after watching Watchmen, it actually got me started with comics. That's when I read the Watchmen comic. The comic remains one of the greatest comics of all time, right by Kingdom Come and The Dark Knight Returns.
I loved the movie when it came out. Yes, it was long, but the cinematography, the visual effects, as well as the storyline were really top-tier. It's a shame that this movie came out before the superhero-craze in Hollywood. Just like Hancock, Superman Returns, The Fantastic Four and The Incredible Hulk, this movie was panned and not considered serious. But I'm glad that after all this time, these movies are considered great, and in the case of Watchmen, a masterpiece
I get the critique, I just don't think that the movie necessarily has to convey the same message as the original comic book. The movie doesn't take anything away from the comic book and should be enjoyed as it's own piece of media. The movie certainly does work on its own. An occasional weird reference to something from the comic book does not take away from that.
Dude. I've been sampling your videos and that last bit sealed the deal on the subscribe. Great work!
First off, I just stumbled into your channel and have so far been absolutely delighted with your content. I love finding a creator before they get popular. Nothing is more tragically pretentious than being a UA-cam Hipster like myself. Anywho keep up the good work.
Second, I never read the comic. Caught the movie while it was steaming on HBOgo a while back and enjoyed it. Proceeded to download the Directors Cut because more is always better I thought. I couldn’t make it through. If I knew the source material I might could have at least appreciated it, but the pirate cartoon absolutely killed the pacing. I never finished it.
I also watched the film before reading the graphic novel. I guess I never really thought this deeply about it but I do like both.
you dont hate the movie....
because its still one of the most competently directed superhero movies out there,
something people leave out so they can hate on the snyderman
i know you won't see this, but its the truth. the movie isnt perfect, but neither is the sometimes not serious enough mcu films like thor ragnorak where death of family members isnt treated with the seriousness it demands.
The MCU is a total joke.
It's no surprise that you think the Watchmen movie is good when your only level of critical understanding is whether a movie is serious or not.
Dude, you are a genius!
Its beautiful to see you do your thing. Thanks.
The movie is good, the comic is a masterpiece
I just watched this for the second time after 3 years. It's brilliant, my favourite video essay film review.
Goddamn how is this video still sitting at such a low view count, this needs to get some promotion or something :)
Seems like it got just that.
I think it works better than you give it credit for, but I also understand and agree with just about every you've said.
I've shown this movie to a few people who have no idea who these characters are, and I myself am not very versed in it, and only know then second hand, not from their own comics, but through the media I watch and consume, and I've yet to have people not understand the majority of the concepts and ideas.
Does it lose a lot of stuff from the comics? Sure. Could it be better or fixed or made to stand alone? Sure. But it doesn't have to, it still works how it is, and it's a great movie honestly.
I think you’re forgetting this is a big budget production 3 years in the making . Making it “flashy” and “cool” was probably a decision on behalf of the idea that THEY NEED TO SELL TICKETS AND SEE RETURN PROFITS. Silver screen adaptions can’t satisfy every fan fict writer with a hard-on. This film has more W’s than L’s, I think we can leave it at that.
2/10 would not watch this on YT
Well, the movie bombed, so I guess they failed at that, too, lmao.
A Olson it bombed? It was his second biggest box office success behind 300. Made 55 million opening weekend? Cost around 135m to make and it made 185m by the end of its theater run. Even critiquely it isn’t poorly rated. If you mean fan reception? Sure core fans of the original graphic novel were ‘disappointed’ but the movie was more than fan service IMO.
Binging your channel and I gotta say these videos are A+
This channel is criminally underrated. Amazing video, helped me understand more about what was missing from the adaptation aside from simple cuts for time. Subscribed my dude keep it up
Your analysis and scene edits were legit
This totally explains why I felt during Watchmen like it had deeply fascist undertones. Alan Moore originally sought to deconstruct superheroes by making them flawed, contemptible human beings you wouldn't want to meet in real life. Moore saw their propagandistic origins as ugly, and therefore made these people seem unheroic and sad. Losers, sadists, outsiders, and narcissists. Snyder instead glorified them, all while amplifying the spectacle of brutal violence. It's exactly the opposite of Moore's intent.
That Village People/Ziggy Stardust analogy is ridiculous. Neither were walking around getting milk or doing their taxes. They were literally figments of popular culture that establish unattainable escapist fantasies of fulfilling creative existence. They are quite literally the closest thing we have to superheros.
I want to congratulate you on making the one video essay on watchmen that opens saying explicitly why it is essentially a comic book, why the form of watchmen can't be divorced of it's content, explaining the best formal exercises of Gibbons and Moore, and the comic book history that informs what Moore means with the story. And for all of this to be included in half of a 20 minute video shows how a good lecturer you are.
I would disagree with your take that Dan's breakdown is an improvement, i think it is one more example of the script and direction guiding the characters to a more heroic version of themselves. In the comic, the fact that all those colorful super heroes were so scared of the nuclear Armageddon that they prefered to go along Veidt's plan (after some hesitation, of course) instead of doing what we morally expect of a super hero, and that the deranged and psychotic Rorschach is the only one who acts "heroically", but it comes out of his unpractical and dangerous moral absolutism, that we have seen before informing horrible acts by him, is very much part of what Watchmen wants to say about super heroes. I think it is incoherent for movie Dan to be so antagonizing and self confident towards Veidt and to still be part of the conspiracy to keep his "utopia".
I also disagree about Holis Mason's death. The point of it, much like the Comedian's death, is to show how the violent lives of these weird people end violently, and without glamour, the comic putting Hollis beating side by side a romanticized Golden Age like comic fight to explicitly put in question the violence. In the movie's death scene, Mason is glorified.
Loved the video, wish you the best!
Love the edits.
This was one of the best video essays ive ever seen, keep them coming man!
Compared to Marvel and DC movies, Watchmen isn't like comic book movies. I like the scene where it goes in slow motion to show Rorschach using the aerosol as a flamethrower; It looks so ridiculous and comical