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Why I should have calibrated my Kia e-Niro's battery management system
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- Опубліковано 15 сер 2024
- "It's not the car, it's me." After the epic fail in the previous video when I managed to get stranded due to low battery, I’ve looked into why it happened. Primarily it’s because I recklessly left without enough battery of course, but the reason I had a false sense of confidence was due to the incorrect range on the GOM (‘guess-o-meter’).
The range was wrong, it turns out, because the battery had not recently been calibrated. That involves charging up to 100% from a low state of charge. Do that once a month and that should keep the battery happy.
Now I’ve told you that here, there’s not much reason to watch the video, is there?!
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
00:11 - Recap of my epic fail
03:11 - Calibrating your battery
07:32 - Why was the 12-volt depleted?
09:10 - Dash it all!
12:28 - Should I have used OVMS?
13:51 - "It's not the car, it's me."
Tweet me: / tillathenun
A lot of comments asking what jump starter I have. It's an Arteck one I bought from Amazon but it's been unavailable for over a year now. Something like this from NOCO should do the trick nicely but there are *so* many options on Amazon and in theory much cheaper ones should also work: www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B015TKUPIC/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_HZk0FbW2SAECS
Hi andrew ua-cam.com/video/ZH7V2tU3iFc/v-deo.html go to 22.30 in the video sounds abit like what you experienced.
Went to find the link for the one I ordered in October and the listings been deleted 😬
Looks good emergency starter . Seen then before m8 brought old style about £60 and works well with 2.2 petrol but it big . I like this as it’s small will try this on m8 car see how well it works.
Not all of us are experts, I have learned from your experiences. Mistakes become lessons as I see it so keep up the good work :)
Exactly
and the future EV buyers will a) be even less knowledgeable and b) even less inclined to spend time watching/learning to become more so.
I've gone to 3% in my FE with no turtle or power loss, but that was after a long stint of motorway driving. The battery would have been warm by that point. I think 3% and a warm battery is quite different to 3% and a cold battery.
We were all brought up on ICE vehicles, and understood all about spark plugs, fuel systems, alternators, dynamos even, etc.
We all have to learn about EVs, it will take time.
Thanks for your honest video.
Thank you John. I feel the same. These frustrating battery issues will be just as alien as using a choke in years to come.
I am still awaiting delivery of my kia E Niro 4+ ordered 2 months ago!!! Love all of your videos and you helped to confirm that the Kia is a great car. I have found your honesty really incredible and has let us all learn along with you. I know the GOM will only base it's results on your past history so a hevy right foot will eat up power more quickly. I never would have known all of the calibration, so thanks again!
@mev202 Not arrived yet, held up waiting for the UK Government grant to be paid. It was initially due at the beginning of April but delayed...
Hope yours arrives on time!
You're always entertaining and informative. You've got a great personality and I'm glad I ran across your videos a while back. It's comforting to know that someone out there (you) is experiencing these things and sharing them before it happens to me. Thanks!
I think you should do another test like that with Mrs Till with you.... now that would be entertaining :)
I’m not masochistic, Jeff!
My wife and I are awaiting delivery of our Model Y....our first EV. I have learned a great deal from Bjorn and also Kyle Conner but LOVE your videos because you are a normal guy using EV's in normal ways. It really helps us not be as anxious about our big switch. Also...you have a lovely family!
Very informative video Andrew. Thank you. Don't be too hard on yourself - we are all still learning about EVs. In my 2017 Leaf, I keep my OBD2 plugged continuously and it seems to shut itself off so as not to drain the 12V battery.
Yes Andrew, it’s good to talk, we all learn more from sharing our experiences
My wife wonders if she has set a record. In her 2020 ENiro 4 she got home from London to Mansfield arriving on our drive at 10pm with 1 percent battery in October 2020............! After watching your video, we will be not leaving the car so short of charge ever ever ever again........ She had stopped at the new Milton Keynes Bus Station EV charge forecourt, but only charged enough to get home, ten more minutes would have made a huge difference. Meanwhile we LOVE the ENiro, got it in July and have done 6000 miles trouble free up to date (Mid Dec 2020). She is going to London in the morning and our top tip is to stop near London (150 miles from here) and do a rapid charge on the way down, then we are sure we can get home without needing to stop again. Thanks for the videos, we watched them all before buying our ENiro, they were very helpful.
When my 12v died, RAC came out and tested it. It was down to 5.1v. As soon as they put the jumper pack on it I was able to start the car & then the Inverter kicks in. (Maybe not of the main battery is flat), but it should only need enough from the jump starter to flip a relay.
I think I now have the same jump starter as you so glad to know it's been field tested 🙂
Thanks for the tip, Andrew. I took ownership of mine 6 weeks ago. I just returned from getting a s/w update done. Something about better compatibility with modern charging stations.
Here in Australia I hope to have an EV soon. Perhaps like you I know little about this technology, so thank you for sharing your learning curve. I think it will shorten mine.
thanks again
very interesting vid, I had a similar experience last monday with my MG, fully charged on the sunday to 100% and range indicated on eco was 141 miles, a bit low but blamed it on being cold, monday morning had to go on a longish round trip of 140 miles so knew I needed to charge and there were 2 about 100 miles from start with no fast chargers in between, problem was consumption at times was 2.6 miles/KW so ended up with 15 miles left at first charger, which did not work and by the time I got to the next one had 5 miles of range and crawling along. Answer we need more chargers before I suffer a heart attack or switch back to ICE
By the way, I feel you're unfairly blaming yourself. How much knowledge are motorists supposed to have??? It should be an easy user experience. Your typical driver isn't going to know about cell cycles and cold weather battery care. You know more than most and you ended up running out of power, so Kia does need to learn from these instances.
Yes this. Firmware should take into account of last calibration time, weather and remaining range and be conservative when cold etc.
Yes, absolutely. The owner should not have to second guess (ignore) data that the car presents. If your journey was to climb up Everest I could forgive the GOM getting it wrong, but there is no excuse for such an error for a "normal" journey. The car knew the temperature and the SOC. If the battery was "calibrated" as recently as October then it should not have forgotten so soon. Yes, you could/should have charged the car, but it is not your fault that the car lied to you. This is on Kia, not you.
Oh, also, having just watched the latest Carwow video, running EVs till they died, it seems pretty idiotic to write software that kills the car with 4 miles remaining. With the Renault Zoe, Matt was able to drive well beyond the 0%, 0 miles indicated when the battery charge got low. A far more intelligent way to handle things than your Kia.
And to be clear, I'm not anti Kia, far from it. I've had a Cee'd for the past eight years and it's as good to drive now as when I first bought it, new.
@@eezytiger Software can't do anything about it. It's the one drawback of the Korean chemistry and cell architecture (vs its advantages, batteries are compromises). Towards the end you need to be very careful. And it was two very short trips in cold weather, too. In cold weather, GOM works pretty well, if you drive the battery down to 0 from, say, 25% or more. If you start driving with everything cold and an almost empty battery, you are likely to run out of power because that doubles consumption (battery heater, cabin heater, etc) for the first 10 minutes of the trip. If your trip is only 15 minutes, and you repeat that twice, GOM can't compensate. The Korean EV's are geared towards efficiency. Their batteries have extremely low inner resistance and very little heat loss, even when they are very cold. The battery heater heats them far less than with other manufacturers, increasing overall range. However, the battery heater consumes some power and at low SOC and low temperatures the battery struggles to deliver all of the charge it holds. Even a moderate load surge leads to a sharp increase in amps because it causes a voltage drop on top of an already low voltage, leading to further amp increase and further voltage drop etc. thereby rapidly depleting the battery.
@@adrianguggisberg3656 I beg to differ. A little extra reserve in the battery to make sure the vehicle never quits with range still remaining cannot be impossible to code for. Who on earth would ever want their wife/mother/daughter stranded by a vehicle that was engineered without a simple safety margin to guarantee no nasty surprises (from the vehicle at least) when driving home on an unlit country lane in the wee small hours, or any other time?
Thanks for the advice - and the honesty!
I didn’t realise why the handbook recommended to charge to 100% once a month or so if not required to do so for your driving needs. Someone explained to me that it gives the BMS a chance to look at all the cells to make sure they reach their correct voltage maximum. It also looks at the unused cells in the ‘actual’ battery which I think is 67.5 kWh, there being 3.5 kWh in reserve as we only see a ‘virtual’ battery. of 64 kWh. What I have noticed is the effect of ambient temperature on the GOM range. I last charged to 100% on 3rd December when it was about 7c here in my part of France. The GOM said the range was 473 km (293 miles). Back in the summer I charged to 100% a couple of times with the ambient temp at 25c and was getting in excess of 540 km (334 miles)..which is daft of course but the GOM will base its estimation on previous use history. Ambling around empty French country roads at 60-90 km/h does indeed give us great efficiency readings, often below 13kw/100 km (4.77 miles/kWh)....see my channel Kia e-Niro diaries for details. But I know full well that if I headed up the N10 to Poitiers doing 110-120 km/h even in the summer that GOM range would drop rapidly. I have no doubt you would have made the journey with your daughter in warmer weather Andrew!
I bought a used 2016 Kia Soul EV+ in 2020. Fantastic car. The one and only time I ran completely out of range was when the GOM said I had 4 miles of range left and the charging station was less than 1 mile away (I could actually see it with my eyes up ahead), but then suddenly that 4 mile indicator turned into "- - -" and I was forced to pull over. The tow truck had to tow me for less than 5 minutes to get me to the charging station. Funny thing was, he could not understand why a simple jump start wouldn't fix it. So I explained how the two systems, 12V and high voltage, were used for different things. The 12V battery was totally fine, but could not be used to move the car, and even if it could the car would probably move a few inches per second at best, for about 1 minute. (No, I have not tested this!) One good thing, though, was that he asked me a lot of questions about EVs (for more than half an hour as I charged) and I squashed a lot of rumors he had heard about EVs ("Don't the batteries need to be replaced every 5 years?", etc) and he seemed genuinely interested in taking one for a test drive. He especially loved that it costs me about $2.80 to "fill up" at home.
Experience is the name we give to our mistakes!!
Thank you for sharing! I just got an e-Niro here in the US. Very helpful to know about the calibration. It's definitely not all your fault! We should be able to have some trust in the distance estimate and adequate warning before going totally dead! Auto makers should make it even easier to own electric cars so more people will switch.
Hi mate, great video, we are new to electric cares we have a Kia Soul we decided never to go below 15% best to be safe or untill a lot more chargers around
You've proven the fact that the most unreliable component in any road vehicle is the nut that turns the steering wheel! 😉
I wish that I'd seen this video before commenting on the previous one. But it's still valid, so it will remain, unedited. Thanks for the honest heads-up, Andrew. We appreciate it.
Useful vid Andrew#. I had not thought about calibrating my Honda e. Will do so now - so thanks
I have a slightly different theory …… Since getting my e-Niro 4, I have logged all the charges and trips so I can learn how it works. What I have seen is that we have two trip screens in the middle of the clocks. One of them tells us how we are driving for today’s journey and the second tells us how we have driven since we first got the car (or last reset). For example, my first trip shows only 2.4 m/kWh for today’s cold trip to the shops, the second shows an average of 4.2 m/kWh since I got the car in June. The 4.2 m/kWh represents my summer average which was 4.5 but is slowly dropping as we drive the car in the colder months. I have seen that when I charged up last week to 100%, the GOM calculation was based on 64kw x the average m/Kwh on trip 2 (64 x 4.2= 269 miles).
Once you start a journey, the GOM is still calculating from the trip 2 average and not the trip 1 daily m/kWh. I have a theory that to get a more accurate GOM for the Winter, we need to reset Trip 2 and therefore reset the average m/kWh so the GOM creates a new average and therefore a new more realistic winter range. I am worried this will look really bad when first reset 😊
When you drive in the winter, the % battery remaining drops faster than in the summer which causes bigger drops in the re-calculation of the GOM range. This would not happen if the Trip 2 average was a more realistic winter figure of say 3.5 m/kWh (3.5 x 64 = 218 miles) and the GOM would be more accurate. Happy to be wrong, this is just my theory and it’s good to learn 😊
Be interested to know what your average m/kWh from Trip 2 and when it was last reset ? Also be good to know what you have been getting for your recent cold journeys from Trip 1.
Keep up the great videos
Hi ! Thanks for your honesty and transparency. I recommend the use of a cheap Bluetooth device called a battery monitor, it will log 24/7 your 12v battery and help keep an eye on it without opening the boot.
Another great, really useful video Andrew, thanks (my girlfriend is also strangely happy to watch you too!) I also treat my phone battery in this way (20-80% most of the time, with a monthly charge up to 100%) which is why I sometimes get frustrated that I'm forced to charge it more than I'd like as it has to be plugged in (and charging) in order to use Android Auto (or Apple Carplay)! You also reminded me however, that my laptop has been typically sat plugged in at 100% charge for months/years on end!!
Lenovo laptops come with a power manager that allows you to set a maximum charge if it is sat on charge most of the time. Also recalibrate the battery. Presume you can get similar for others.
The one time my early LEAF 24 came to a halt was 400 mtrs from home after a 75 miles journey on a not full charge . It was dark , near freezing and raining , The Gom showed just enough to get home 10 miles from home then went to flashing bars, three miles out we went to Yellow warning , half a mile went went Turtle as we came down a slip road , at the end of the slip road everything went black. Luckily some passers by pushed me to a safe stop point. By the time my son drove from home, just along the road, I was able to 'restart' the car the 12 v battery presumably had recovered as Lead/Acid batteries do. It was a short tow to home, but I suspect that I could have got home under my own steam if I had thought it through.
Since then I have Always plugged in every night, and try to run the car down to less than 10% about once a month. Now I am some 42000 trouble free miles in my Zero.2 LEAF.
Thanks Andrew/. We are all driving less and here in New England, it is cold. I looked and it had been two months since I charged to 100% The chargers are not very close here, so on trips, I plan to charge at 15% - 20%. From Bjorn, I have keep the normal charge limit at 70% and charge at home when it get to 35%. Trying to extend battery life, which after 22,000 Miles still reads at 100%. I have a small aftermarket display which gives me state of charge, battery temp, 12 volt battery and a number of other values
Good honesty Andrew, you won’t be the first or last... interesting about the calibration; I have found the GOM to be really accurate but I always charge to 100% I never bought into the urban myth about 80% to protect the battery. I have seen zero issues or battery degradation. I think it might have been a thing in early EVs but not applicable with the newer tech vehicles.
You’re not seeing battery issues with the E Niro because the gross capacity is estimated to be 67kWh. Kia restrict it to a net value of 64kWh to protect against the issues of persistent 100% SOC. There are lots of credible sources, including Kia owner manual instructions, that 100% SOC for lithium batteries should be an occasional, not a routine habit. This is consistent with experience of Li-on in other settings.
I'm a 'newbie' electric car fan. I've got a Leaf 62kWh Tekna. It goes like a dream. I wouldn't go back to ICE. All over the internet there is conflicting information. Some say always charge between 30% and 80%. Others say 100% because the manufacturers always make sure that when it says 100% it isn't full and there is a certain amount unavailable to protect the battery. So the UA-cam EV 'gurus' all seem to have different ideas about batteries. So far I've always kept the battery between 50% and 80% but after Christmas I'll probably go for 100% for the first time since new.
Personally I treat the gom on our Soul and our previous Kona as a backup to what I definitely know by the battery percentage. Winter 100% is 2 miles a percent, summer 2.5 miles per percent and aim to get home with 10% or 20 miles. If it looks close, as in your 19% 26 mile journey would be 9% to get home with 10% so 9% would be 18 miles. I have pushed it at times though!! Having a big battery definitely makes you more complacent I think, I was much more on top of range when I started with a 16kw ion back in the day.
Checking the SOC of the HV battery and 12V battery is very easy with free Car Scanner Elm Obd2 app that works with all elm327 adapters. All custom PIDs for Kona EV are preinstalled in Car Scanner. OVMS is great but requires expensive dongle and has cumbersome installation.
Hi, I enjoy your videos especially the one to John O Groats. I drive the 64kWh Hyundai Kona, pretty much same drive train as your e Niro. I get the 3 dashes around 8 miles left, that’s when you sweat but I suppose it’s all in the planning, we all try to squeeze a bit more out of them, and that is no different in an ICE car, I previously owned a BMW X5 40d and it would not start if the car had very low fuel even when I knew it had fuel. Best just to charge regular and cycle the battery as you say just in case you need the car in an emergency. I have also owned a Zoe and a Leaf, Leaf presents you with the three dashes too, but Zoe counts down to zero charge on turtle mode (head) Keep up the interesting posts. Thanks Scott.
Cold weather dramatically reduces battery range. The GOM or any range estimate is questionable in cold weather.
When you do charge to 100% run it down soon after charging.
Batteries do not like sitting at 100% for hours or days. Charge to 80% in most instances for best battery life.
I'd not come across calibration yet, but did know that the monthly 100% charge on AC was to rebalance the cells, but I suppose it may very well be recalibrating too.
I thought rebalancing the cells is what was meant by recalibrating. Do you know them to be different?
No way do I recharged to 100% monthly. The closer to the middle your stick, the less frequently you need to rebalance the cells. If you normally charge to 60% and don't drop below 40%, then you don't need to rebalance as often as if you charge to (say) 80% and drop as low as 20%.
@@ScrapKing73 yes recalibration is different to balancing the cells but they both can be done at the same time for example when you charge to 100% and charging to 100% is perfectly fine just don't keep it at 100% for a long period of time so just charge it at night to 100-percent then drive it down to 80% in the morning
@@raptorpome2577 Interesting. What do you believe to be the difference between rebalancing and recalibration of cells?
@@ScrapKing73 I'm the opposite in that I have never come across 'recalibration' before! The Niro's battery comprises 294 individual pouch cells, each one with slightly different electro-chemical properties - something that is inherent in their manufacture. This means that each cell reaches its maximum state of charge at a slightly different time. So if you stop charging the battery when the 'weakest' cell is 'full', the stronger cells won't be fully charged and you will have lower overall capacity and therefore vehicle range. If you keep charging until the 'strongest' cell is fully charged you will have overcharged and therefore damaged all the other cells, reducing your battery life. Rebalancing discharges the stronger cells a little bit (usually via a resistor) allowing the weaker cells to catch up so that all the cells are fully charged without damage. That is why you have to let the overall battery pack reach 100% occasionally. Rebalancing is not as big an issue for modern EVs as cell manufacture has become more sophisticated and I believe cells are grouped by their individual characteristics so that cells with similar properties are put into the same battery pack.
@@stephenharrison3232 Your understanding exactly matches mine. I have traditionally heard what you're describing as rebalancing cells. I remain uncertain whether rebalancing and recalibration are two names for the same thing, or not, but I suspect that they are. If someone knows a distinction between them, I'd love to hear it.
as always great video, so basically operate the car between 20 and 80%, with a top up to 100% prior to long journeys, thanks for yet another frank update, and I know what you mean about not having a clue, I was the same with my leaf!!!
Hi Andrew. Thanks for the heads up didn’t no that as I said in your last video I normally only charge up to 90 %. So will charge to 100 % every 3 rd charge . Talking of charging do’s and don’ts take a look at a UA-cam channel that goes by the name of PLUG LIFE TELEVISION. A Scottish guy he is a battery chemist and fellow Ev driver he did a video all about charging .really good goes into great detail but puts it across so we can understand it.
Good to know. The owner's manual for the 2020 does indicate that you should charge to 100% once a month.
Kia need to update his software to re-calibrate automatically to always keep it correct or surely they can put that in a software update
You cannot recalibrate the BMS automatically, unless you will allow it to discharge its battery fully overnight and recharge afterwards. This can get expensive. The deviation is not that bad, and you will from time to time from low SoC to full in normal use. If not, you will need to think of it, to not recharge a while, let.it run to low SoC and then recharge to full to recalibrate.
@@patrickfavier4310 Agreed on everything you said. And there's no perfect schedule upon which you need to rebalance the cells, and since I don't charge it very high or drain it very low I do it very infrequently. I've never charged over 60%, and almost never drain it below 40%. So I'll wait until there's a need, or it's been a crazy long time without a need.
Hi Andrew! This battery calibration may be a thing but I think it really is a GOM calibrating thing. As the weather turns colder, it ‘remembers ‘ the range possible with warmer (previous) weather. Then, as the real autonomy goes down, it 1) gives you a false prediction and 2) has to expedite showing the real rate of battery depletion. In spring to summer, I guess we’ll get to see the opposite phenomenon. It goes to show the imperfections both battery technology and software still face. All things equal, if I could really afford it, I’d keep a +100k € ICE car along my eNiro, just for some unpredictably long winter stretches. Cheers!
It is noy actually the battery that needs calibrating, but the BMS. The BMS determines SoC on some variables like pack voltage. If you charge from 60-80 a lot, whitout going to the low end of the voltage and the high end of the voltage the variation in voltage is very low, and the BMS might indicate a higher SoC or lower SoC than the battery actually has. The recycle from low end, to 100% allows the BMS to calibrate pack voltage sensing.
But good reporting. It is important that new EV drivers get to learn how to get used to this.
Better that you push your luck and suffer the consequences so that others can learn; good example of a youtuber providing valuable content
Maybe oversimplifying this but what really counts is the state of charge. Ignore the GOM. State of Charge is the way to go in my experience. Especially at lower percentages. Below 10% turn off the heat, stereo, lower your speed. It makes a huge difference. This is how you learn how your car works!!!
The GOM in the e-niro or Kona is also very dependent on the previous driving styles, in comparison to a Tesla which has a "rated range", which means it will tell you its range based on the SoC and not the previous driving style). Combined with the other factors you mentioned, the GOM can be off quite a long way, because the range fluctuates so much.
I suspect the variability in applying power limiting is down to the BMS and individual cell voltage variations. The battery is only as good as the best cell in the pack. This is another reason for charging to 100% once a month or so as it helps balance the cells (this means getting them all at the same voltage). Once they start to vary, the maximum current that can be drawn is limited by the lowest voltage cell in the pack. That's likely to be exacerbated by a cold day as the individual cell resistances will be higher resulting in an even bigger cell voltage imbalance. (Copied from e-Niro Group!)
I'd say that the battery is only as good as the POOREST cell! :-) The weakest cell will reach zero volts before the others, and can be damaged further by reverse-charging it!
@@hamshackleton Ooops - you're right not a good typo!
@@hamshackleton none of the cells should EVER reach zero volts under any circumstances. The car would shut off if any cell gets lower than say 2.5V in order to protect from cell damage. You cannot ever discharge Lithium Ion cells to zero Volts as irreversible damage occurs. Cell reversal will never happen.
@@ThePrawlin - I know this, you know this. I was stating the hypothetical results - anyone who bothers to read and understand lipo's/lion's knows this. In a car, the battery protection circuitry SHOULD prevent this ever happening - but you never know until it doesn't!
Thanks for making this video,keep going.....if you have charge👍
I think you have misunderstood how the 12v battery is charged. When the car is switched off, the 12v battery gets a top-up if needed as indicated by the flashing 67-100% charging light. This process does not seem to operate when the state of charge of the HV battery is low. When the car is switched on, the low voltage systems (BMS, heater, lights etc) are powered by the DC to DC converter which steps down the power from the HV battery to ~14 volts for this purpose. It also charges the 12v battery. The 12v battery only powers the low voltage systems when the car is switched off and for the couple of seconds between pressing the start button and the green car "ready to drive" symbol coming on during which time it powers the systems checking that the HV battery is OK and closes the contactors to allow current to run to/from the HV battery. So I think your car was charging the 12v battery because you were driving it - even at the low state of charge of the HV battery. I guess it failed because there was some drain on the 12v battery while you were parked or it was in poor condition to start with - perhaps because the car had not been driven much recently and you have flattened it before I think. Typically a DC-DC converter will put around 5-10 A at 13.9V into a 12v battery so the max energy draw would be 10 x 13.9 = 139W and let's add another 20% for losses = 167W. If you were driving for 2 hours that would be 334 WH or (334/64000) x 100 = 0.52% of your HV battery's capacity.
I just got a Kia Niro ev in October and had the turtle experience last night...pretty scary, but I luckily made it to a charger with a couple miles to spare. I haven’t been driving much at all lately and was completely oblivious to the remaining range when I set out. Still adapting to the ev mindset I guess. I am curious though what your average efficiency is in cold vs warm weather and any tips you or others have for learning to drive more efficiently. Thanks for helping us all learn!
Some cars can use apps to actually see the voltage of the individual cells, so you can know if you need to rebalance the cells. You'll need something like an OBDII adaptor. I intend to do that very thing with my Kia Soul EV and SoulSpy, so that I'm not charging it to 100% unnecessarily.
I have a 2019 Kona EV, so normally the same drive train as your Niro. Had a similar experience. Forgot to charge the night before, and found myself at 3% battery with 12km (including uphill) to go, at 5 degrees C. Luckily, there was a charging station and added 4% of battery before finishing the trip home.
From what I see, didn't notice a change in behaviour below 10% (the battery didn't discharge faster) apart from the turtle mode. This being said, I tried to reduce consumption as much as possible (eco+ mode, no radio, no heating, slower driving).
PS: I have just received a letter from Hyundai for a recall, to update the BMS (following the battery burning issue). Don't know how this will affect the car's consumption.
Another useful video huge thanks
Appreciate the information is really appreciated, wasn’t aware of that procedure. Very helpful thank you.
the other thing is on the 12 Volt Battery, my 20202 Kia Soul EV (64KW model) I actually had to set the Aux. Battery Safer mode to enabled so the car monitors and charges the 12 volt battery. Unfortunately I am the EV Soul guru not self acclaimed) as one of my friends I referred to buy a KIA Soul EV, called Kia service about a mysterious flashing blue light (on top dash of the car called Charge Indicator) when the car was not plugged in or charging. They told her to bring the car in but she called me first, I told here the light will activate if the car is off and the Battery Saver is charging the battery. She then called service and told them that, needless to say they were embarrassed and saved her a needless Ferry trip into the mainland (Vancouver). So the Kia E-Niro might have this same feature that needs to be enabled if not already done so.
Andrew, I would like to point out one important factor. When it's cold, the Niro EV needs a lot of electricity for the first few miles to heat up the passenger compartment. Even if, for example, you only heat up to 20 degrees.
I didn’t have the heater on at all during the journey there or back actually.
Nice video Andrew
The early power limit was probably due to the battery pack being cold and low state of charge as the both limit the current you can get from the battery.
Recalibration every so often may improve Guessometer accuracy but only if your driving behaviour is consistent from journey to journey and other variables impacting battery performance remain broadly constant. This is unlikely to be the case for most EV drivers over an entire week, let alone over a month. The fundamental issue remains that EV battery performance is significantly dependent on driving style and environmental conditions. Until this is improved, the Guessometer will remain just that - a guess of variable accuracy.
An interesting and informative video. Now winter is with us my e-Niro (First Edition) has developed a heater problem and I wondered if any of your subscribers have had a similar issue? Within a couple of minutes after switching on the heater a "check electric vehicle system" warning flashes up and the EV light illuminates. The heater then switches off. System resets after a short stop and the rest of the functions are fine. My local dealership in York now have the car and have ordered a new heater which is on back order until March 2021. The dealership have been great and initially lent me a Sportage MHEV, but have now replaced that with a e-Niro 4, so a least I now have decent headlights. The service department have told be that this is a common fault and also effects the Kona electric. Does anyone have any further info? Cheers and Merry Chistmas to all.
Calibration is only knowing for cell phone batteries. For BEV's is the best to keep the SOC between 20 and 80% and the charging as low as possible (between 3 and 11 KW). Rapid charging is not good at all for the batterie.
EVs do vary significantly in the intelligence in the BMS. The instruction for my BMW i3 is "ABC" - Always Be Charging. You just leave it plugged in all the time; it sorts everything out, rebalancing the battery cells, doing discharge/recharge sequences and what have you when it thinks it's best to do so. Also means you always leave home with 100% charge - it's not like a petrol car where filling it up with fuel makes it less efficient :)
However if you leave a Leaf plugged in all the time, it won't be good for the battery - especially if it's parked up for a couple of weeks. Instructions from Nissan are explicitly *not* to leave it plugged in for the car parked up for a significant time.
Anyway, point is - need to read the instructions for the specific vehicle, and not just follow what other people do with other makes and models of vehicles.
On having stuff plugged into the ODBC2 port - it's worth highlighting that the vehicle manufacturers do state that you shouldn't have stuff plugged into it while driving...
You need an Aptera with 1000 miles range, (actually, I saw you already ordered one... me too). And if your battery gets low, just find a sunny place there in Blighty to let the solar cells do their job.
Even in a petrol car you'll find your Gom, which guesses the mileage left on reserve. However they too are not exact, so unless in town when you can fill up or charge up, do it before you travel 😉
Kia GOM does not take into account the elevation changes. I think the outward bound trip was slightly downhill and the reverse was true on the way back. I think Tesla does take this into consideration and so does a better route planner app.
Not so much caliberating but rather reseting the bms's understanding of where abouts the battery is in its state of charge.
The tracking of power put in power taken out is a good method but over long periods of time the error builds up combined with self discharge and other system losses.
Charging to 100 % in itself is not really that bad for a battery but rather staying at 100 percent is especially if its warm/hot.
Charging to full then imedietly driving will minimise the damage whilst allowing the bms to reset its charge state estimator.
Electric cars are you learning point it will take time for everybody to understand them properly
My diesel also stops showing GOM when fuel gauge is very low
5:45 " . . . proves it wasn't calibrated," or possibly to do with some 'natural' battery degradation - you've had this car over 18 months?
Also those others at 10:35 may have had better ambient and battery temperatures.
These videos are very important, your experiences are real world ones showing day to day driving. Keep them coming.
State of health is still reported as 100% in OVMS. I’m not sure how accurate that is though!
Cars don’t run out of fuel, people do 😂
Thank's Andrew.
As for the lack of dashes, and the early appearance of the turtles, both seem likely to be symptoms of poor low end calibration. It thinks you have more range/% then the voltage drops and the turtles appear.
Does anyone know whether use of a trickle charger on the 12 Volt battery has any negative implications for the E-Niro?
I think that the 12 volt battery is no different on an EV to an ICE car just smaller capacity as it doesn’t have to turn over a starter motor, so I would say yes it’s ok.
www.carsdirect.com/car-repair/how-to-use-a-trickle-charger
Does it not effectively get trickle charged all the time from the main battery? (As long as you don't let the main battery delete below 15% charge!)
I think the trick is to keep the vehicle with a good charge as one must allow for unexpected travel ,
So, long story short. It’s incumbent on new e-vehicle drivers, like myself, to join a strong community of people to help us navigate how to efficiently use our vehicles. I’m guessing this is why Tesla has a cult- they have been together through thick and thin😅
It does feel like that doesn't it? I always equate Tesla owners to Mac owners for much the same reason!
I think the last couple of points actually can be related to the batt. calibration ! (the --- & % batt. remaining) !
As the battery voltage drops so does the power output, so there are no way that ppl could have driven their car Dow to 4%. Without any power loss. Also worh mention is that the battery output is not linear, below 10%,it will drop like a rock. I dont think that the aux battery saver works below 50% state of charge. Great video and information. I guess thats why Hyundai recomends to charge the battery in my Ioniq to 100% atleast once each month. About the 12v battery, any usb stick will drain power from the car if plugged in, even When the car is on. Did not know that and my 12v battery failed, l😔luckily I was in my own drive way When it happened and I Just charged it up with my Cetec 12v charger. Not any problem since..
It's not your fault, it's the GOM that failed, you just trusted it.
My 2020 goes from 17 km to 0 on the Gom when i reach 5% Lucky enough to get home
Love the Vlogs
I am new to EV's and have ordered my first EV, a E Nero 4+ due at the end of Jan 2021. I would love to see a couple of VLOG reviews of tips on:
Commercial charging apps you have subscribed to and whether they are worth it. i.e. which supplier is your go-to preferred EV charging point on a journey.
How many / which charge suppliers should I sign up with and hand over my card details?
Any other charging tips away from the home?
HUllo Andrew,in My Owners Manuel,cant find anything about Calibration,of the Main AKKU,It sounds sensible,therefore I shall Try it out,where did you get your Info from?I have had my E Niro since the 9th of December,and am very pleased with it,but I still have a lot to learn about EVs.Although Kia says they are selling lots of E Niros ,all I see on the roads are Hybrids,which seems contraproductive,Tests say they are not as Clean as they should be.I think with an EVwe are in the right direction.Donald Sapsford-Dortmund,Germany.
Hi Andrew, many thanks for some great films. I own a 2017 Renault Zoe and I change to a 2021 Kia e-Niro 4 + at the end of January.
I do a lot a work in Ethiopia and I noticed you used subtitles on one of your reports. Do you use auto subtitles and what app/product do you use?? I have bought VEED, but it is not reliable. Can you advise?
Electric is the way forward for all, but the RFID card and membership to get charged is wrong and has to change. All chargers should declare the£/kWh and they should all be payment by contactless credit cards or one national membership card.
Thank you for some great films, info and advice.
Happy Christmas to you and your family. Best regards, Gary
Good movie! I have had eNiro 2020 for 6 months. Fantastic car. Sorry for my language, but I'm writing from PL
Do you know what happens with the battery if it very often works below 20% or even 15-10%? I know that it is not good to health, but I don't know exactly why...
Thank you for the Info Andrew,an Battery Calibration,I never gave a thought,my Son thinks it should not be neccessary in a Modern car,obviously wrong.I shall be watching my Batteries.I am also learning by Driving,and it seems there is a lot to learn,I am not very good at learning from the Manuel,maybe because of my age(73 yrs old).As an Englishman living in Germany many years(since 1961) I have no problem following the Prompts fom Workshops but one doesent always get precise info,I go in for the first Update next week,and I wonder if anything new will change the Software,I have my E Niro since 12.12.2020.keep up the good work,my worry is will I be able with my Cards be able to charge my car everywhere?
I wouldn't drain it low without first balancing the cells by charging it high. One of the biggest reasons to keep the cells balanced is to make sure you don't drain any of the unbalanced cells lower than the safety threshold. I don't think there's any need to go low in balancing the cells, I think you only need to go high to trigger the battery management system to rebalance all the cells.
Makes one wonder why Kia doesn't mention this calibration requirement in their manual.
Great video thanks yer I was told do 100% once a month so I do that at least once a month. Does eniro had two trips ? I’ve found that if you leave trip for lots of miles like we did for first months 2/3 k miles , if gave poor reliability gom as it didn’t adjust to today conditions etc and had 1 trip it dropped like stone when got below 20% and as new ev drivers on unfamiliar roads it was scary . But since resetting the trip every long trip or on majorly different days we have found the gom lot better and more accurate over the trip . Yes first 10 miles is way to much be soon drops as you drive , and I now look at State of charge and work from short term efficiency and check it to the gom works for us on Zoe ze50. In one day this week took Zoe down to 6% to public charger due to road closures I usaly don’t go below 10% for this reason if something unexpected happens or chargers don’t work etc and the range drop was nice and linear and was ok just slowed down but the same thing happened on way home due to accident and got home at 4% !!! bit below what I wanted but with luck and judging your % and gom on short time been ok over 8300 only had range Anxiety 2-3 times but chargers anxiety lots as too Many chargers are single units and not got best reliability some of them . On a trip when I get below 40% I mentally check the distance to go to the gom and battery % and adjust speed or charging Location every 5 miles or so as I normally drive Zoe at speed limits like ice car keeping up with traffic etc , so sometimes you need to just stop having so much fun and drive more eco to make chargers or destination if you travelling outside range of home charger .
I have a 2008 Honda Accord EX. I fuel indicator light came on. Normally when that happens you have 1.5 gallons (5.6 liters) of gas in the car. The gas station was only 3 miles from the house. I went to get gas/fuel and the car died on me. I ran out of gas/fuel. The point is it can happen in an ICE vehicle too.
I would love to know if you have experienced any battery degradation on your Niro EV in the past 18 months.
Hi Andrew. I generally charge my Kona64 from 50% back up to 85-90% and once a month to 100%. Do I need to go lower SOC to calibrate or is 50% low enough ?
Really interesting but also very disappointing (for Kia). That last few miles is the bit when it is most important for range to be accurate and the computer should be juggling recent driving style with what's still in the battery to keep it accurate. Your suggestion with the "calibrate the battery" seems to be that the car takes the range that it calculated at the last charge and then just counts down the miles driven - but that can't be right because it couldn't allow for miles gained on regeneration (I live with some significant hills!). I spent 6 years driving a Vauxhall Ampera plug in hybrid before getting my e-Niro and on that the remaining range could be trusted down to the last mile. Kia should surely able to do better than your experience. However, I have taken the warning on board!
Good follow up video. I was a bit lost about what you did with charging to 100%. Presumably, you need to deplete to low and then charge to 100% so the car knows where the top and bottom of the charge range is. This wouldn't necessarily be the case if you were charging to go on a long trip (may already have a fair amount of charge in the battery). Could this be the reason you don't see the 3 dashes - the car not knowing where zero(ish) is?
In the beginning you explain recalibrating as depleting your charge to 20% then charging to 100%. But then you didn't mention the first part after that. How necessary is it go down low before charging to 100%, and would it work from 50%?
I think avaliable energy is slightly affected by temperature of battery the colder the les power avaliable.
I run my Kona in the range of 70 to 80% charging from my rooftop solar. That extra 70% reserve is insurance. Why would I want it to go any lower than that.
A danger with the 64kwh battery is that it is so good you get a bit casual with charging, l have. I understand Tesla also recommend charging to 100% at least twice a month so it is obviously a thing.
Exactly that. I take that big battery for granted in a way I never did with the old LEAF.
Interesting about the 12volt battery , never knew that about the e nero
In regards of the people saying that they do not loose power when on 4% - my guess would be.......if their batteries(Energy Management System) are/was calibrated they would most likely have had more power left in their battery than you had when you where on 4% with a non calibrated battery(Energy management system). I must say I am guessing :-).
If you want to know if it's your fault or KIA's, consider an owner like Mrs EV. I doubt she would expect to second guess the GOM. She would expect Kia to make it correct, like a petrol gauge. Kia would be torn to shreds by that impressive lady!
You have to love the decisions that companies make. It won’t charge the 12v battery if the main pack goes below 15%?
Wow. Lol
Is it important to do this every month regardless of driving habits? I have an e-Niro and my commute is rather short. 10 miles roundtrip. I charge from 20-80 every 5 days or so. Not sure how often I would have to do this. Thoughts?
One a month to 100% should do the trick. Only on an AC charger though - it doesn’t work on a rapid charger.
@@MrEV Even if you almost don't drive the car at all that month?
Is there an update to get three dashes to come up?! If that came up at 15% would help.