My 12v battery (e Niro 4,) purchased June 20, has failed twice, 22/01/21 and again 03/02/21. The first time RAC jump started and advised to go straight to KIA and left it with them, 2 days later told nothing wrong. The second time RAC had to put one of their batteries in car to get me started and said his checks showed mine needed replacing. Car in for 5 days eventually replaced the battery with a non Kia one( even though initially told they had to put a Kia one in) but as there are non in the UK!! they put a Yuasa battery in , otherwise they were having to pay for a hire car for me indefinitely! I love the car but it has made me nervous. Message appeared a couple of time saying 'battery was draining, due to plugged in devices' I have never plugged anything into any of the ports and have aux battery saver checked. KIA have not been able to explain why this was happening Sorry this is long winded 😌
The design flaw with the 2019 Niro is.. that the aux battery saver does not come on automatically on a low aux battery voltage. It does it on a time interval of every 24hours. Because it runs around 20mins or so, every day it will start the recharge 20mins later. (The 24hour timer will reset on end of charging, or after shutting down the car) problem is that if your aux. Battery voltage drops below say 9 or 10V in between those 24hours, the electric circuit breaker in between main battery and the DC-DC converter that charges the aux. Battery can not be powered and it will fail to charge the auxiliary.
Aux battery saver option has been removes on the Kona by one of the recent recalls - it also does the top-up every 4 hours instead of 24h before the update
Removing the Aux Battery Saver option would seem like a real negative , unless Hyundai's recall change to top-up every 4 hours removes the need for the Aux Battery saver .... Please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding
Hi Andrew. Informative vid. My experience (not EVs though) is that once a lead acid battery has been totally discharged they are never the same again . Usual advice is never discharge below 50%.
It's the same problem for many e soul-owners.. I have a 2020 and a camera in my garage: If the car is unused for a few days, it charges the 12v. battery (from the HV-battery) every 24 hours. It charge for 20 minutes. (registered on my garage-cam) It seems like there is no "sensing" on if the 12v. battery needs a charge or how long it should charge it.. As said, it is always 20 minutes charge,every 24. hours. (car not plugged in)
Hi Andrew, another great informative video, having watched it a number of things stand out: 1. I know you have a first edition model from 2019 which I think as you said and the manual confims, only charge via the aux battery saver+ under certain conditions. I have a 2020 '4' which I got 11 months ago and by then the software had (as far as I know) been updated so that the battery saver boosts the charge every 24hrs +20 mins regardless as an attempt to improve things. From viewing other forum posts from '4' model owners I think this is the standard so if you haven't had a software update since you got the car, you might not have this. 2. I don't know if you leave your OVMS plugged in when not using the car but I certainly wouldn't. To monitor my 12V battery I fitted a BM2 Bluetooth battery monitor which is very low power and also allows you to do the tests your battery tester does via its App. I suspect running the OVMS subsystem takes far more power. 3. The point you make about not sitting fiddling with the car unless you've got it on or in Utility is I think really important, paticularly if you have the interior light on, which is likely in winter. The fitted bulbs are 10W rated, so if you have front and back interior lights on thats a big load straight away for not very good lighting. You can get LED replacements which use a fraction of this pretty easiliy. 4 Finally, given number of times that your battery's run down, the circumstances in which it happened and the results from you tests, I'd say that battery is pretty knackered now and need replacing. Once they go beyond a certain point, they become walking wounded in my experience and very non-resilient to non-ideal conditions. Don't know if any of that makes you feel any better or worse but I thought it might be useful. So far I've had no problems with my 12V, though I did give it a several hour trickle charge during the really cold weather to be on the safe side. I've really enjoyed your videos on the e-Niro over the last two years and am sure they have helped a lot of others learn about the EV owning experience. Let's hope you won't need to go through this performance with the 12V battery again
I see you are using a OBD2 adapter. Don't leave that connected to the car when you switch the car off! And finally many 12 Volt batteries are bad quality nowadays.
A load tester is a better way of testing whether your 12 volt battery is holding a charge. In my experience , you can charge a dead battery up to voltage and appear okay, but once you put a load on, it quickly dies.
I think you have the answer. I live in a very hot climate, and each year my battery would die. I decided to fit a volt meter in the car so I could keep an eye on any voltage drops before the battery fails. Even with this, i still can't catch the problem before it fails.
@@petertwiss4215 The battery should be approximately 12.8V with a full charge and no load and 12.0V when the battery is almost depleted. But you can get up there even if the battery has little capacity. Just remember it can also be the charging circuit that is the source of the problem. Some EVs seem to have poor charging logic, where it does not provide charge even when the battery is down to less than half capacity left.
It would be interesting to see how you get on with a deep-cycle battery. Strange KIA provided a battery designed to quickly dump power to crank an engine into life, which don’t handle being drained.
Was very happy with the deep-cycle capable "Optima YellowTop" in my 2006 Prius, never again needed jumpstart since it was installed and is now 8y old. Sadly that type is not available for Kia. Do you know alternatives?
@@ronexus Can't say I'm particularly into car batteries, other than having to deal with them over the years. I'm making an assumption that the CMF60L-BCI battery in the KIA, is group 35 (should be stamped on the battery), and found these (I guess there are plenty of others).: Arc-Angel Group 35, lifePO4 Delphi BU9035, AGM DieHard 38275, AGM NorthStar NSB-AGM35, AGM Optima 8020-164 35 RedTop, AGM Optima 8040-218 35 YellowTop, AGM Odyssey 35-PC1400T, AGM
My First Edition’s 12v lasted 18 months before a fault in the electrical systems caused it to drain and die. My dealer replaced it for around £85. A month later the replacement died. The electrical fault got worse and the car wouldn’t start at all. Took delivery of the 4+ a week ago so hoping they’ve improved things with the aux battery saver.
The OBDII connector can prevent the car from turning off which would drain the 12v battery. I had this in my old BMW so got into the habit of unplugging the OBDII device when not driving it.
As I understand lead acid batteries, if you deplete the charge below 50% the battery is permanently damaged. If you go a lot lower than this, and a reading of about 4V is below 10%, even once, then the battery will be completely cream crackered and needs replacing. I guess your breakdowns running your high voltage battery out have ended up damaging the 12V one. Lithium batteries are much more expensive, and require very different charging voltages and routines. Replace with lead acid battery and keep an eye on its state of charge.
In some situation when the key is close the car doesnt go go sleep and pulls about 3amps. I testet this with a clamp ampere meter. Allso connected odb can keep the car awake
A few years ago when my husband had just picked up his new Renault Traffic Van (obviously not an EV), it needed fuel, so we stopped at a garage. The van had done 8 miles. After filling up, it wouldn’t start, so we ended up calling a recovery service. The battery was a deep cycle one and when tested was found to be totally dead and needed replacing. The engineer said that when you get a vehicle, you don’t know how long the battery has been sitting on the shelf before being put in. We needed transporting home in the end as the company do not carry the deep cycle batteries - too expensive to hold a stock of they said. 2 days later and Renault arranged for a new battery to be fitted. So even though your car is just under 2 years old - the battery may be older than that - together with the weather and amount of times it has charged from flat, might be why you need a new one now.
The engineer lied to you, every battery has a date stamped on it showing when it was made, if you are buying a new car and the battery was made 4 years ago - that's easy to see for a person who works with cars.
Yes, I found the video interesting. And, I agree with you! There should be no reason that the 12v discharges to the point that the car will not start. I have had my e-Niro for just short of three months and it happened to me once. But, that was enough to wonder, 'what the heck were they thinking?' The car should be continually monitoring the 12v battery and keeping it charged. Unless or course, if the the main battery is extremely low. As to your items as to why the 12v, the reason I might agree with is the 'Safety'. They have to DC/DC convert to charge the 12v; why can't that just run the 12v systems, besides running the flashers if you breakdown? I'll leave it there. But, I did get one of those small LI-ion starters and a trickle chargers when I had the problem. Neither used since, but 'insurance'. Overall, I love the car with all that said.
Lots of people asking where I got the jump starter. Sadly it's no longer available but this one looks very similar and should do the trick (I've not tested though!): amzn.to/2Ns0C49 (UK) If you want to buy the Topdon BT200 battery tester, please use my links so I get a little affiliate cash! amzn.to/2NL0bSf (UK) amzn.to/3pC1K2n (USA)
I have a leaf and noticed the other day that one of the 3 blue lights on the dash was flashing. The car was parked on the drive and locked up it appears that this was the 12 volt being topped up. Sounds you need a new 12v battery.
My Nissan leaf battery lasted 4 years only, before I had to replace it. EV's wreck the 12 volt batteries much earlier than ice cars, which last about 6 to 8 years generally
A few days after I received my e-Niro 2020 the 12V was flat. The problem was not the battery, but a current leakage due to a faulty interior fuse box. After the fuse box was replaced I have not had any issues.
My Niro EV 2019 is doing the same thing, battery dies for no apparent reason and I live in California so weather cannot be blamed, I think there's a software issue with the NiroEV. Thanks for sharing this video, I hope Kia addresses this soon.
Hello from Canada thanks for your video's great job man! I'm kinda surprised no one has commented on the fact that your brake fluid appears really low if it is as low as it appears in this video you better get that checked out. Also the charging system test is only for "ice" cars as the first check is the alternator diode ripple test then the unloaded and loaded tests for alternator output is a dead give away hence rev to 2500 rpm. Keep up the good work I look forward to the next video. Cheers!
Vicki Gordon Bloomfield (Transport Evolved) did a video about this 12 Volt issue on EV's, specifically her Nissan Leaf. She indicated that the principal reason for these relatively early 12 Volt issues on EV's is because they DO NOT experience "High Current Instantaneous Loads" as would be the case in an ICE vehicle when starting the engine. As such, the plates inside those 12 Volt EV batteries build up deposits which limit their ability to hold as much charge. Those Starting Procedures on an ICE vehicle "Shock" the internal plates and cause the built up crystals to dislodge, thus restoring capacity to hold charge. I DO NOT KNOW if this is true or not but it certainly sounds plausible.
Hi Andrew my Kona 64kw 2023 12volt completely died and the 12 volt had to be replace due to a dead cell, it wouldn’t even jump start off my jump starter. The guy from the RAC replaced the battery and we were on our way again👍 he said lots of kona’s had had this issue due to the batteries sitting around on shelves in factories during covid as production came to ha halt. I waited one year three months for my car from date of order. Fantastic channel, your videos are very handy and interesting. Loved the Kermit frog story, song and accents😂
well the 400volt battery must have a stepdown/ tranformer to charge the 12volt battery, so this makes no sense !! just use the 12volt transformer/stepdown to operate all the 12 volt componants
Taking these batteries below 10v effectively kills them. So a previous deep discharge maybe because your OVMS was plugged in seriously compromised the battery, so your batteries own monitoring wasn’t working properly because the battery that powers it was damaged. The way i understand EV’s there is a contactor (electro-mechanical switch) which turns on the 400v battery to the car, however this contactor needs the 12v battery to operate it, which of course once operated will charge the 12v battery. Now the other thing is to fire up an EV does not require a large current unlike starting a fossil car (starter motor cranking an engine) so turning on the EV does not really drain the 12v battery at all, so moving the vehicle should not effect the 12v battery.
Only thing I would worry about is the characteristics can be different, maybe the car will hurt it. The charging voltage can be too high, or too low. Maybe the battery saver will fail to detect low battery, an start charging too late. If I replace the led acid in my Model 3, I will check with Tesla Servicecenter to confirm the modification first. I have heard Tesla talking about Li-ion for new cars, but I don't know if it is as easy as just swapping, or if the circuit has to be different.
It’s happened to me a couple of times, but it’s definitely when it gets very cold (below zero). I’ve found that keeping it connected to my zappi helps, but without the OVMS to warn me, I’d have far more problems. I’ve used the zappi in those circumstances to add some charge and that kick-starts the recharge of the 12v 😁
While we have been locked down, every day, when I walk the dog, I pop into my Nissan Leaf and just turn the ignition on. When I come back, after I have walked the dog, I turn the ignition off and lock the car up.
The problem i had with a trickle charger on my motorbike is that you don’t know that the battery is no good......until you’re on your ride, have stopped and need to go again. It’s a real pain 🥴
I think one of the main reasons for having a 12v battery in all ev's is the cost of ancillary electrical stuff like bulbs, pumps heaters etc. KIA has access to the global established market for 12v stuff. If KIA used a 400v system they would have to make everything from scratch and unique to the Niro. No stuff aftermarket ex Halfords etc would work either so it would push up the cost of the car unnecessarily all round.
But it is zero problem to make a voltage converter from 400V to 13V. It may be they do not want to be complely dependent on the big battery for some reason. Let say for fault diagnostics.
If the battery holder is able to support a physically bigger battery with higher Ah capacity, go for it. I updated the original 40Ah of my 2015 vw e-up to a 54 Ah, the difference is like night and day. Remember that a 12v battery life is 4 years in general.
12V battery problem on Kia e-Niro purchased in March 2021. In April 2022 I've found battery flat. The dealer has replaced it because "defective". January 2023: battery is flat again (3V after 2 days without using it): tomorrow I'll go to the dealer hoping that they fix again. What is the problem with battery? From my point of view, the problem is that the car DC/DC charger in the EPCU unit is set for a high voltage. When I push the brake pedal and turn on the car, I see 14.7-14.8V on 12V battery. In the original Kia 12V battery instructions it's written to "charge battery with max 14.4V! What is the 12V battery voltage on your car, when car is ON (ready to drive, so with the internal DC/DC converter ON)? Do you know if is possible for the dealer to regulate the DC/DC converter voltage to be less than 14.4V? Thanks.
I had issues on my car with the battery that kept on being flat, turned out after replacing the battery my tracker was draining the battery, mechanic couldn’t find or get to the tracker but he did cut the wire that charged it seeing as the shop that fitted it are closed due to covid
This problem just happened to me. Kia Niro EV (as it's called in "the states") 2019. Bought it in 2020, so just barely within the 3-year battery warranty. I had driven it fine, parked it for two days in normal temps, then in morning found out it was dead. Measured the battery and it showed 4.5V (eg, dead). Did the jump start on it, was able to turn it on, but once the jumper starter turned off the car was dead again... (I should try turning car in READY mode to see if it can charge up the battery)... though I am recharging the battery now and hope it can be good enough to drive for an hour to my nearest Kia dealership to have the confirm and replace the battery under warranty (I hope they dont make it difficult for me)...
My ID.3 has been having 12v issues recently (it’s very common with the ID.3) and had to force charge it by switching it on and leaving it for hours. The early software of the ID.3 doesn’t charge the 12v unless you’re driving or have it turned on. FWIW, a 12v battery needs 14.5+ volts going in to charge - 13volts is just a preservation charge and doesn’t really increase the charge. I bought a cheap Bluetooth battery monitor that you attach to your 12v and leave it. It’s very useful to keep track of the state of it and brings peace of mind.
Mine battery die after 60k on clock,and I was in middle of nowhere,at 2am,then I found out,I have 18v battery drill in the trunk,so after few minutes,I found it two pieces of wire,and I was able give my self jump from drill battery
Hi Andrew , I have Kia e niro 71 reg . I’m facing a problem of 12v battery failed many times to start. I have a booster which I use to start the car . I took the car main dealership they there is software issue. I had the car one full day. It’s fixed for two weeks but facing same issue. I had book my car to Kia on 25th April for this month. As you had the car long time. Please advise me how I resolve this issue. Looking forward your advice. Thanks
You could try reconditioning the battery with a good quality charger. When lead acid batteries go flat they get a build up of sulphates on the plates that stop them working properly. Reconditioning tries to remove this by pulsing the battery to knock the deposit off the plates. Your car won't do this on its own; it needs a more specialist charging system. Look for a 12v charger that (believably) says it offers reconditioning. These chargers won't be cheap. I've had mine many years and it was about £50 when I got it 10 years or more ago. My reconditioning charger has recovered the 12v battery in my ICE car on quite a few occasions, saving me from having to replace it after letting it go flat through a lack of use, or carelessness.
Hey Andrew. Get a Bluetooth 12v battery monitor. Amazon have them for £25. I have them for my soul and id3. They log the voltage on the battery for up to 35 days. Hardly use any power themselves. Shows if you have a phantom current draw and when your car is recharging the 12v battery.
Very informative thanks. My 12v has died on my PHEV Niro several times, twice because I left the boot open too long ! It would be useful for Kia to provide a quick user guide for basics like this. Moving from a diesel has taught me a lot about the benefits and cautions needed with EVs. Portable charger is a great idea.
Hello Mr Till. We are looking to buy E-Niro 4+ 2021 EV but we are really put off by 12v battery as you highlighted. Car will be doing about 650 miles evwry week (130 miles /day) Mon- Fri. Has rhwat issue been fixed now as we watch your channel and are aware you have a Kia E-Niro ev now. Any help would he greatly appreciated. ❤
Funnily enough, I just had an issue with the 12v today while we’re in the Italian Alps on holiday. Video coming soon. I think it’s just because my 2020 e-Niro hasn’t had a firmware update that should improve 12v battery management but I’ll take it to Kia when I’m home in a couple of weeks. It could also just be because the 12v battery is old. It’s not enough to make me regret getting the e-Niro as I still think it’s a fantastic EV, but I’d certainly recommend getting an emergency jump starter just in case. misterev.co.uk/gear/jump-starter Stay tuned for the video anyway!
@@MrEV Thank you for getting back to us while on holiday.❤️ Have a fantastic holiday😊. 👍 If you could touch on couple of things: How wide spread is this problem with Kia 12v batteries? Is this just certain models/years? And what firmware update would bw the cure? By the way we are looking to buy directly from Kia Dealer 2021 model 4+ but very nervous as wife does long miles and need it to be not stressfull🤞🤞
@@MixBags There are plenty of people that have hard-wired dash cams in their e-Niros without a problem. If they're always on (when the car is turned off) then you may have issues but otherwise they'd be fine.
had the same issue with my eniro (2.5 years old)...made the mistake of plugging a cool box in for 10 min before leaving and flattened it and its never been the same since..went away for a weeks holiday a month later and its failed again sitting in the drive, looks like I need a new battery
You can help your 12v battery by replacing any incandescent bulbs by led ones from AliExpress, for the interior and exterior. For headlights buy quality ones with a proper cooling solution. To get rid of canbus warning, you might need led bulbs with integrated resistors ( consume more ) or better, use a canbus dongle and app to change the profile of lights from normal to Led, it will stop the failed bulb warnings and not necessitate resistors led bulbs, so consume less.
Hallo John, Are you able to give more information about the mentioned canbus dongle and app to change the profile of lights from normal to led? Do you have a link to a website where this canbus dongle is available? Thanks in advance!
This dead battery happens on a lot of hybrid cars Ford, Toyota Hyundai etc. This is awful bad design to allow the 12vt to go too low and kill the car start. It just happened to my wife 5 minutes ago. We are use to it
Lead/acid batteries are ruined in the summer from the heat, and it fails in the winter. If a standard L/A is discharged below 12.2 volts it will ruin the inside lattice. Replace with an AGM battery and mount a charger i the car and recharge the 12v battery i cold periods every 2 weeks.
Thanks, Andrew. In short: Make sure that the replacement 12 Volt Lead/acid battery is rated for deep discharge (Deep Cycle). If not, and if it's only a standard high current car battery, it will be useless after a handful of discharges. No Lead/acid battery likes being completely discharged, so it must be either a cost-cutting measure or else ignorance which drove the decision to use that battery type as auxiliary batteries in EV's.
I’m intending to upgrade to a 12v LiFePO4 lithium battery the next time the regular 12v battery fails, if not sooner. Some models designed for automotive use declare themselves empty at 20% state of charge, meaning you can “jump” them by enabling the last 20% (letting you start the car and start charging it again), from what I understand. :-)
You spent quite a bit on testing the battery and jump stating it. Why not try replacing the two year old lead acid battery? Great, interesting video BTW.
Hello. Thanks for a great video and have got my first e Niro and love it. But i think the 12v battery is on its way out so its need to be replaced. My questioning is can i replace it myself, i have changed many batteries on cars but never on an EV. It it still a process of just unplug and replace ? Thanks
my ioniq uses bat saver every day if not driven by 11am in winter its now 945 am may be we should ask why are they so small and low amp capacity. you need at least 10 miles to charge the battery or turn on car for 25 minutes my battery is brand new. there is a lighter one you can get that just has 3 lights the thing is that the drop between full and car not seeing the battery is not very much my ioniq battery was dead after 1yr 7months when i bought the car thats why i have new battery due to massive dead cell
Andrew. Don’t pay too much attention to the battery tester. They always say REPLACE when all it might need is a really good long charge. How long did you leave it in Utility mode? I’ll bet not long enough! To fully charge and rejuvenate from flat takes ages no matter what charging method is used. Leave it in Utility mode for 10 hours minimum! Leave heater, lights etc off so as to not waste energy. Then your battery should be near 100% SOC. Then going forwards, never leave anything plugged into OBD port, avoid dashcams and avoid the accessory mode like the plague (starting without foot on brake). Never use that mode even for a minute it is a real battery killer. Also, if you sit charging car with power on that’s fine but the moment the charging ends, turn off the car immediately. Else it is discharging the 12V heavily as it is in accessory mode again. As you said, always ether be in ready or utility mode when doing anything. Never ever use accessory mode! Get a BM Bluetooth 12V logger!! Connect it to the battery. It uses almost no power (less than 1mA), it records graphs of the 12V status 24/7/365. www.amazon.co.uk/Battery-Monitor-Bluetooth-Device-Tester/dp/B08F9ZN5XW/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=BM2+monitor&qid=1613763673&sr=8-2 Then you will see completely what is going on. You may have a fault on the car drawing excess power when it’s off, but maybe not. You can check the status regularly without even opening the car. Maybe even from inside the house if it’s close enough! I cannot praise these things enough. They should come standard on cars. My Eniro has been fine. The Battery saver+ doesn’t actually monitor the 12V state, it simply comes on every day for 20 minutes to top up the battery at 14.7V CV. That is enough to keep up with normal self discharge but it will not compensate for Dashcams, OBD scanners or any other additional loads. Nor will it recharge a fully depleted battery. Give it a really good long charge in Utility mode, get a BM2 ASAP then see how she goes. Cheers Peter. (PS thanks for the Octopus referral I assume you got it too a couple of months back😉)
PS, Your 12V battery may have been degraded a bit due all the deep discharge events you’ve had, but my guess is it will recover if you give it a long enough charge. Please try it anyway. Peter
This has happened to me on two episodes and into the workshop both times. The dealer couldn't find any fault but replaced the fried battery second time. I found on speakev forum that the battery saver + should be ticked; it wasn't! The dealer didn't check this or tell me about it. So with a new 12v battery and this box ticked the problem has gone away.
The timing of this video is funny. My next video, about things I hate about my Niro EV, comes out this week and one of my biggest issues is the 12V battery failing me 😎
@@TheArjulaad the solution is to have the upgraded software that fixes the issue. The Kona got an update that fixed the problem and it seems that in Europe there is an update for 2019 Niro EVs that also fixes the issue. I spoke to my dealer here in Canada and unfortunately there is no update for me at this time so it seems that the update is not available here. I opted to install a bigger 12V battery that uses AGM technology.
We’ve had our E-Niro 4 since august and had no 12v issues but I have kept an eye on it because of people’s issues but the 4 seems to have done a decent job at keeping it alive during our cold weather here in Yorkshire. UVO is currently saying caution as it’s probably dropped below 50% in the cold and the car hasn’t moved in 3 weeks. I would also say that a good old fashion multimeter will tell you everything you need to know about the battery voltage and health and that’s what I’ve used.
I bought a jump pack in the black friday sales. It also has an air compressor, an emergency flashing red led and a white led worklight as well as a usb-a out socket. I am hoping never to need this for our ID.3 but you never know ...
I am planning to get an EV but this issue, which seems to be happening on a number of different EV's, not just the e-Niro, is starting to make me wonder if I go with EV or stick with ICE. I may just have been incredibly lucky but I can honestly say that over 47 years of driving ICE cars I've never had to replace, or even charge a 12v battery? Lots of these cars were 5 years old or older too, so not just brand new ones where you'd be very surprised and disappointed if the 12v battery failed. Is the 12v battery still under warranty on your e-Niro?
Just make sure to interigate them to understand if the manufacturer is stuck in a mindset to only charge while driving, like old car onlycharge while ICE is running. I know many people had similar issues with ICE, if they do too much short trips during winter, and the starter use slightly more than they are able to charge on a short trip, with heater on full.
Robert, I think you have been very fortunate not having any battery issues. I have had multiple new vehicles and my experience is that a 12v battery that will last around 3 to 4 years. When ever I have replaced a battery, I always get one with a 5 or 6 year warranty as they will last longer over time and I can avoid the inconvenience of battery related issues. I have the Kia 2019 Niro EV and this last year it has not been driven much and as gone 2 months without being started or charged. I have had no 12v battery issues and the high voltage battery did not seem to loose and noticeable amount of charge. The Battery Saver+ is enabled in the settings. Good luck in your search to see if an EV is for you. I love my Niro EV.
Bonjour moi aussi je rencontre ce problème en ce moment La référence de votre booster pour la batterie sur Amazon puis je l'ai avoir En ce moment je la charge directement avec un chargeur 12 v si vous avez résolu votre problème ca m'intéresse
use the spec off the battery to buy a new one - tayna in wales are good and they deliver very quick - halfords etc will steal your wallet - have same issue on 1.0 peugeot due to cold weather and not much use - those charge packs are the best thing ive bought :D
It would make sense to have a deep cycle(leisure battery) as it doesn’t need a high amp lead acid battery in an EV. And I don’t think they cost that much more.
They cost approximately the samme, just optimized for different purposes. One is short high power, the other is deep charge lower power. If you want deep charge high power, that when they cost much more ....
Really good explanation. Exactly the same problem with my 2020 E Niro EV. We got the Li ion jump starter as you suggested, a life saver. Ultimately the problem looks like the battery is past it. Did a new battery solve it for you?
Hello, thank you very much for the detailed and amazing explanation, is it possible to replace the 12 volt battery with a deep discharge gel type battery in the Byd Atto3?
Hi, I am about to take delivery of a KIA E Niro and I am very interested in the 12V jump started as shown in your video. However I am struggling to find this product online. Can you send me a link?
I'm wondering if there are lithium deep cycle batteries to replace these crappy ICE batteries because as the car does not need heavy grunt to turn an engine over but just needs to fire up the electronics a lithium should be perfectly good.
There are companies that sell them but they’re very expensive. I was offered one to review a while back from an American company but didn’t take them up on the offer because I was so busy at the time. I may look into it properly again.
Hi Andrew, decided to watch this after experiencing a flat 12v twice in the 4 days since took ownership of a brand new Ioniq Electric. After 3 calls to the dealer they have offered to replace the battery tomorrow morning. We are well and truly into winter now, so it’ll be interesting to see if the issue persists with the same frequency.
Just starting to get 12 volt battery low warnings on my 20 month old ioniq. Hasn't fully discharged yet but i do have a 45 min commute. Only a matter of time i guess. How long is th warranty on the 12 volt?
@@alanbrad3727 sorry to hear that. I’m sure the warranty on the 12v battery is the same as the rest of the car. Check with your local dealer before paying for a replacement.
Put in a "marine-deep-discharge-protected" equivalent battery. I drive a Audi Hybrid, and when I drive in EV mode,... I encounter the same problem! Stupid design, when I hook up the car to the grid, it SHOULD check the 12V circuit and start the DC-to-DCO converter to top up the 12V battery! Currently the DC-to-DC converter ONLY activates when you drive, and on short trips (typical for PHEV's) the time during the trip is too short! Stupid designs.
But as you said, you have a 400V to 12V charger already so why didn't they just make that beefier so it could drive all the loads directly?! A PWM step down circuit is not that expensive any more so its just lazyness from the manufacturer :(. The battery could be made from capacitors, li-ion or liFePo4 chemistry and it could be charged extremely fast. But then they couldn't charge the customer for battery service anymore since it wouldn't fail.
12v automotive batteries need to be able to charge to higher than 10.5v. Lower than that and a sealed battery is near enough junk. 12v batteries operate within relatively small margins. They are at their peak charge at around 12.9v and operationally flat at 12v, (12.4v to 12.5v = 50% charged). Though a reading of 12.6v is good. When an ICE vehicle recharges the 12v battery, it does so on a trickle charge, which is why it can take 20-40mins., (depending on CCAs, size of engine, temp, etc.) of running the engine, just to recoup the charge used to turn over the engine for 15secs. 12v batteries should not exceed 13.8v for extended periods of charging; nor 14.4v for short periods of charging, 8hrs. max.) If you’re going to swap your battery, you may like to look at AGM, (Absorbent Glass Mat). These are more expensive but can cope with a lower SoC for longer. And suffer less from gassing. All lead acid batteries gas as part of their operation. If you have a non-sealed battery, (harder to find these days) gassing is not a problem. As you check the battery each month. If the electrolyte is not covering a plate/s, you simply top the cell/s up with distilled water. With a sealed battery, there is no checking but the battery doesn’t last as long, as the electrolyte eventually gases to the point of exposing the plates/mats. When you buy a new sealed battery. The instructions say to remove the transit plugs. The little red/black plugs either end. These prevent leaks of acid during storage & delivery transit. During normal operation, the battery gases and this expanding gas needs to be able to vent. I suspect, though don’t know, that when an EV recharges the 12v from the traction pack. It does so, by chucking a load of amps at it. Much more than the alternator’s trickle charge of an ICEd vehicle. So your few minutes of charging using you jump pack, did indeed fully supply those missing few volts. I know CCA aren’t that important for an EV. But they are generally a measure of the battery’s potential power over a period of time; and bigger batteries last longer. So if it’s a choice between two batteries that have the same external dimensions but one has a greater CCA capacity, choose the higher one.
my 2005 Prius also has a 45 Ah aux 12v battery , I tried using a standard 45 Ah Bosch battery but it didnt last long it needs to be a more expensive AGM battery which can handle the deep discharges.
My Kona has same problem, currently in dealer as even though it has has the latest update it still goes flat, it's been there for a week now and they still can't find what's going on, the battery is fine they have done a full test, it seems to top it up, yet once a week or so I will go and find it flat. It also managed to do an un-initiated E-call all by itself which was strange. Dealer tells me that Data is being extracted apparently and a technical case raised what ever that means ! I don't understand why a simple software fix " IF Car_state = Off & Aux_Bat.Voltage < 11.8 then run top_up Aux Battery. I noticed that after completing charging overnight a couple of hours later it would start up again, where the 12V charge had sucked a bit of power from the traction battery which caused it to fall below the charging level threshold. That can't be right. Love your video's.
@@sly1024 yeah but that was going to happen more than a decade ago in the industry. Wiper motors, fan motors might need to be in-house also making verticality even greater .
I had the same issue with my brand new Tesla Model 3 LR 2021 :/ I got the car on 17.12.2020 and it died on me for the first time on 17.01.2021. To be fair it was -15C that night and the car had 26% of charge when I left it. After boosting, it worked for 1 day, and died again. They towed it to the service for 1 week and they had to change the heat pump harness. They gave the car back to me and after 4-5 days it died again (this time -5C and 60% od charge)... Second service (again towing and waiting a week) and again they changed the heat pump harness and gave it back to me. In the evening I went to the car wash and on my way back the car starter showing a message that 12V battery needs replacing (+3C and 80% charge). So I just drove the car back to the service center. This time they told me that actually the 12V battery needed to be replaced - they replaced it and kept the car for few days to see what will happen. So far so good. On the plus side they gave me a Model X loaner for the time my car was in service. On the minus side, the Model X is just a stupidly huge car with old style interior, too high Wh/km, low range and I didn't like it - I missed my own car. The worst part when a 12V dies in a Tesla, is that you cannot do anything without a booster - the car just won't open and won't even let you get to the 12V battery itself - there's no handle to open the hood :/ You need a booster to open the frunk and only then you can recharge the 12V. Further more the car even after boosting needs like 1-3 minutes to start up the systems, so you will be able to do anything and check if it works. I think that the EVs are not properly designed for people that don't plug them in every night in the garage. I live in a flat, and the car just stands there by the curve and I only recharge 1-2 times a week using a public charger.
If the main battery can provide 12v to charge the 12v battery, why can’t it power the 12v items on the car, lights, wiper motor etc? Is it because it can supply sufficient to trickle charge, but can’t supply enough power to run wipers etc?
I have this exact car 2022 Kia niro ev an as of 45 days ago my dash info keeps saying check headlight. So I check headlight an it’s out. But the weird part is ever since this message if I turn the car off for 30 minutes an then come back an start it the battery for some reason is dead an I have to jump it every time it does it which is highly aggravating. An now it’s even worse I can’t even leave the car off for 10 minutes without coming back to it and an having to jump it again Very frustrating I don’t know what the problem is but I’m taking it in.
In my owners manual (United States) is says if Aux Battery Saver+ is required 10 times in a row that it will shut the system off because it believes the battery is damaged. That may have happened here. Also to note discharging a 12v battery below 40% (11.9 volts) will reduce the life of the battery, and discharging below 20% (11.6 volts) will cause damage. You said your battery was down to ~4 volts, so at that point that battery was irreversibly damaged.
Really quite odd that they’ve stuck with the 12v lead acid auxiliary battery in the EVs. My Ioniq hybrid (note: Kia, Hyundai = same company and hybrid/EV tech shared between the two brands) has its 12v auxiliary battery built into the main lithium ion traction battery pack. If the auxiliary battery goes flat - mine has done, once, during the previous lockdown when the car stood unused for a couple of weeks - you simply press a button on the dash and the car uses the traction battery to power the auxiliary circuits up, enabling you to start the car, and then the normal charging circuitry can recharge the auxiliary battery. If they can do this on a £25k hybrid you’d think they would employ the same idea in the near-£40k EV! (Have a Niro EV on its way to replace my Ioniq, fortunately I have a one of those handy little rechargeable li-ion jump packs in one of my ICE cars, will certainly seem perverse if I end up using that to jump start the shiny, new, horrendously expensive EV!)
How old is the Niro? Is this a warranty issue? I expect a 12v battery to last 5+ years, some are warranted for more. Is there a software update due at service time? As to why a 12v battery. look upon it as a buffer store between the traction battery and the cars computers, etc. The only time I had a power failure in my first LEAF was after 2 miles in Turtle mode when everything went black. We pushed the car off the roundabout into safety and called my son at home, 500 mtrs away. By the time he arrived, some 15 minutes later, the 12v battery had recovered enough that I had lights and 'engine' control back. A normal recovery for a 'flat 'battery. As I tend to keep the cars plugged in I have never had a 12 volt battery problem since. I also use the car nearly every day.
I’m no expert, but there are two distinct types of lead acid 12 volt battery! Normal, and deep cycle, also known as “leisure” batteries. Ice cars need to have a “Normal” type of 12 volt battery, capable of supplying 90+ amps to power the engines starter motor. An electric car does not have this “high power”need, so it can use what is known as a “leisure battery” which is much better at coping with getting depleted to low voltages. You mostly only see leisure battery’s as a supplemental additional battery in vehicles that are used for camping and will be expected to power radios and lighting for extended periods, and they are not connected to the ignition and starter circuits of the car, and are only connected to the cars alternator derived charging circuit when a relay senses the incoming charge voltage! This system keeps the two batteries electrically separate so leaving the car radio on all night does not leave you unable to start the car in the morning!!! Leisure battery’s are more expensive due to the design of their internals, and would be damaged if you asked them to start your ice car!!! ( they cannot supply large currents as their internal plates would buckle) To cut a long story short, electric cars need leisure batteries not normal ones........... hey! Just like Tesla provide!!! Lithium iron batteries will work fine, and be lighter, but as soon as your car tries to charge it when the temperature is zero degrees C it will be dead. Not slightly dead, but stone dead. Also, changing your lead acid for a lithium iron may require the DcToDC converters charge characteristics to be altered!!! If you overcharge a lithium iron battery it could default to “pyrotechnic” mode.
Like many, I’m watching this video having suffered issues with our 2021 Kia e-Niro 4+. Battery depleted twice after only 6-7 months. Kia replaced the battery, which has failed again after just over a month. The dealership denied knowledge of any issues with batteries, although it seems it’s well documented on the internet. This kind of hassle is not the reason we got a new car and so we’re seeking to terminate our lease. It’ll be a cold day in hell before I have another Kia.
My 12v battery (e Niro 4,) purchased June 20, has failed twice, 22/01/21 and again 03/02/21. The first time RAC jump started and advised to go straight to KIA and left it with them, 2 days later told nothing wrong. The second time RAC had to put one of their batteries in car to get me started and said his checks showed mine needed replacing. Car in for 5 days eventually replaced the battery with a non Kia one( even though initially told they had to put a Kia one in) but as there are non in the UK!! they put a Yuasa battery in , otherwise they were having to pay for a hire car for me indefinitely! I love the car but it has made me nervous. Message appeared a couple of time saying 'battery was draining, due to plugged in devices' I have never plugged anything into any of the ports and have aux battery saver checked. KIA have not been able to explain why this was happening
Sorry this is long winded 😌
The design flaw with the 2019 Niro is.. that the aux battery saver does not come on automatically on a low aux battery voltage. It does it on a time interval of every 24hours. Because it runs around 20mins or so, every day it will start the recharge 20mins later. (The 24hour timer will reset on end of charging, or after shutting down the car) problem is that if your aux. Battery voltage drops below say 9 or 10V in between those 24hours, the electric circuit breaker in between main battery and the DC-DC converter that charges the aux. Battery can not be powered and it will fail to charge the auxiliary.
Aux battery saver option has been removes on the Kona by one of the recent recalls - it also does the top-up every 4 hours instead of 24h before the update
That's interesting! Thanks for letting me know.
I don’t think that’s been applied to the eNiro yet.
Removing the Aux Battery Saver option would seem like a real negative , unless Hyundai's recall change to top-up every 4 hours removes the need for the Aux Battery saver .... Please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding
Hi Andrew. Informative vid. My experience (not EVs though) is that once a lead acid battery has been totally discharged they are never the same again . Usual advice is never discharge below 50%.
That is correct
It's the same problem for many e soul-owners..
I have a 2020 and a camera in my garage:
If the car is unused for a few days, it charges the 12v. battery (from the HV-battery) every 24 hours.
It charge for 20 minutes. (registered on my garage-cam)
It seems like there is no "sensing" on if the 12v. battery needs a charge or how long it should charge it..
As said, it is always 20 minutes charge,every 24. hours. (car not plugged in)
Hi Andrew, another great informative video, having watched it a number of things stand out:
1. I know you have a first edition model from 2019 which I think as you said and the manual confims, only charge via the aux battery saver+ under certain conditions. I have a 2020 '4' which I got 11 months ago and by then the software had (as far as I know) been updated so that the battery saver boosts the charge every 24hrs +20 mins regardless as an attempt to improve things. From viewing other forum posts from '4' model owners I think this is the standard so if you haven't had a software update since you got the car, you might not have this.
2. I don't know if you leave your OVMS plugged in when not using the car but I certainly wouldn't. To monitor my 12V battery I fitted a BM2 Bluetooth battery monitor which is very low power and also allows you to do the tests your battery tester does via its App. I suspect running the OVMS subsystem takes far more power.
3. The point you make about not sitting fiddling with the car unless you've got it on or in Utility is I think really important, paticularly if you have the interior light on, which is likely in winter. The fitted bulbs are 10W rated, so if you have front and back interior lights on thats a big load straight away for not very good lighting. You can get LED replacements which use a fraction of this pretty easiliy.
4 Finally, given number of times that your battery's run down, the circumstances in which it happened and the results from you tests, I'd say that battery is pretty knackered now and need replacing. Once they go beyond a certain point, they become walking wounded in my experience and very non-resilient to non-ideal conditions.
Don't know if any of that makes you feel any better or worse but I thought it might be useful. So far I've had no problems with my 12V, though I did give it a several hour trickle charge during the really cold weather to be on the safe side. I've really enjoyed your videos on the e-Niro over the last two years and am sure they have helped a lot of others learn about the EV owning experience. Let's hope you won't need to go through this performance with the 12V battery again
Definitely point 4. Replace the battery! Get the software update.
I see you are using a OBD2 adapter. Don't leave that connected to the car when you switch the car off! And finally many 12 Volt batteries are bad quality nowadays.
A load tester is a better way of testing whether your 12 volt battery is holding a charge. In my experience , you can charge a dead battery up to voltage and appear okay, but once you put a load on, it quickly dies.
I think you have the answer. I live in a very hot climate, and each year my battery would die. I decided to fit a volt meter in the car so I could keep an eye on any voltage drops before the battery fails. Even with this, i still can't catch the problem before it fails.
@@petertwiss4215 The battery should be approximately 12.8V with a full charge and no load and 12.0V when the battery is almost depleted. But you can get up there even if the battery has little capacity.
Just remember it can also be the charging circuit that is the source of the problem. Some EVs seem to have poor charging logic, where it does not provide charge even when the battery is down to less than half capacity left.
It would be interesting to see how you get on with a deep-cycle battery. Strange KIA provided a battery designed to quickly dump power to crank an engine into life, which don’t handle being drained.
Was very happy with the deep-cycle capable "Optima YellowTop" in my 2006 Prius, never again needed jumpstart since it was installed and is now 8y old. Sadly that type is not available for Kia. Do you know alternatives?
@@ronexus Can't say I'm particularly into car batteries, other than having to deal with them over the years. I'm making an assumption that the CMF60L-BCI battery in the KIA, is group 35 (should be stamped on the battery), and found these (I guess there are plenty of others).:
Arc-Angel Group 35, lifePO4
Delphi BU9035, AGM
DieHard 38275, AGM
NorthStar NSB-AGM35, AGM
Optima 8020-164 35 RedTop, AGM
Optima 8040-218 35 YellowTop, AGM
Odyssey 35-PC1400T, AGM
That is exactly what I put in my 2019 Niro to solve the problem. An AGM battery.
If you had the voltage below 5V then the battery is now in all likelyhood toast.
Time to buy a new one.
My First Edition’s 12v lasted 18 months before a fault in the electrical systems caused it to drain and die. My dealer replaced it for around £85. A month later the replacement died. The electrical fault got worse and the car wouldn’t start at all.
Took delivery of the 4+ a week ago so hoping they’ve improved things with the aux battery saver.
Why on earth did you pay money for a replacement battery it should be covered under the warranty free of charge
@@raptorpome2577 because I had an after-market dash cam wired into the OBD port.
The OBDII connector can prevent the car from turning off which would drain the 12v battery. I had this in my old BMW so got into the habit of unplugging the OBDII device when not driving it.
As I understand lead acid batteries, if you deplete the charge below 50% the battery is permanently damaged. If you go a lot lower than this, and a reading of about 4V is below 10%, even once, then the battery will be completely cream crackered and needs replacing. I guess your breakdowns running your high voltage battery out have ended up damaging the 12V one.
Lithium batteries are much more expensive, and require very different charging voltages and routines. Replace with lead acid battery and keep an eye on its state of charge.
In some situation when the key is close the car doesnt go go sleep and pulls about 3amps. I testet this with a clamp ampere meter. Allso connected odb can keep the car awake
A few years ago when my husband had just picked up his new Renault Traffic Van (obviously not an EV), it needed fuel, so we stopped at a garage. The van had done 8 miles. After filling up, it wouldn’t start, so we ended up calling a recovery service. The battery was a deep cycle one and when tested was found to be totally dead and needed replacing. The engineer said that when you get a vehicle, you don’t know how long the battery has been sitting on the shelf before being put in. We needed transporting home in the end as the company do not carry the deep cycle batteries - too expensive to hold a stock of they said. 2 days later and Renault arranged for a new battery to be fitted. So even though your car is just under 2 years old - the battery may be older than that - together with the weather and amount of times it has charged from flat, might be why you need a new one now.
The engineer lied to you, every battery has a date stamped on it showing when it was made, if you are buying a new car and the battery was made 4 years ago - that's easy to see for a person who works with cars.
Yes, I found the video interesting. And, I agree with you!
There should be no reason that the 12v discharges to the point that the car will not start. I have had my e-Niro for just short of three months and it happened to me once. But, that was enough to wonder, 'what the heck were they thinking?' The car should be continually monitoring the 12v battery and keeping it charged. Unless or course, if the the main battery is extremely low.
As to your items as to why the 12v, the reason I might agree with is the 'Safety'. They have to DC/DC convert to charge the 12v; why can't that just run the 12v systems, besides running the flashers if you breakdown?
I'll leave it there. But, I did get one of those small LI-ion starters and a trickle chargers when I had the problem. Neither used since, but 'insurance'. Overall, I love the car with all that said.
Lots of people asking where I got the jump starter. Sadly it's no longer available but this one looks very similar and should do the trick (I've not tested though!):
amzn.to/2Ns0C49 (UK)
If you want to buy the Topdon BT200 battery tester, please use my links so I get a little affiliate cash!
amzn.to/2NL0bSf (UK)
amzn.to/3pC1K2n (USA)
Surely a voltage sensor isn’t a big deal and could avoid this ridiculous situation .
I have a leaf and noticed the other day that one of the 3 blue lights on the dash was flashing. The car was parked on the drive and locked up it appears that this was the 12 volt being topped up. Sounds you need a new 12v battery.
My Nissan leaf battery lasted 4 years only, before I had to replace it. EV's wreck the 12 volt batteries much earlier than ice cars, which last about 6 to 8 years generally
A few days after I received my e-Niro 2020 the 12V was flat. The problem was not the battery, but a current leakage due to a faulty interior fuse box. After the fuse box was replaced I have not had any issues.
My Niro EV 2019 is doing the same thing, battery dies for no apparent reason and I live in California so weather cannot be blamed, I think there's a software issue with the NiroEV.
Thanks for sharing this video, I hope Kia addresses this soon.
Hello from Canada thanks for your video's great job man! I'm kinda surprised no one has commented on the fact that your brake fluid appears really low if it is as low as it appears in this video you better get that checked out. Also the charging system test is only for "ice" cars as the first check is the alternator diode ripple test then the unloaded and loaded tests for alternator output is a dead give away hence rev to 2500 rpm. Keep up the good work I look forward to the next video. Cheers!
Vicki Gordon Bloomfield (Transport Evolved) did a video about this 12 Volt issue on EV's, specifically her Nissan Leaf. She indicated that the principal reason for these relatively early 12 Volt issues on EV's is because they DO NOT experience "High Current Instantaneous Loads" as would be the case in an ICE vehicle when starting the engine. As such, the plates inside those 12 Volt EV batteries build up deposits which limit their ability to hold as much charge. Those Starting Procedures on an ICE vehicle "Shock" the internal plates and cause the built up crystals to dislodge, thus restoring capacity to hold charge.
I DO NOT KNOW if this is true or not but it certainly sounds plausible.
Hi Andrew my Kona 64kw 2023 12volt completely died and the 12 volt had to be replace due to a dead cell, it wouldn’t even jump start off my jump starter. The guy from the RAC replaced the battery and we were on our way again👍 he said lots of kona’s had had this issue due to the batteries sitting around on shelves in factories during covid as production came to ha halt. I waited one year three months for my car from date of order. Fantastic channel, your videos are very handy and interesting. Loved the Kermit frog story, song and accents😂
When you test the battery it’s best to open the terminals so there is no parallel path
True. Now there is a possibility that you test while charge is put on from the HV battery
well the 400volt battery must have a stepdown/ tranformer to charge the 12volt battery, so this makes no sense !! just use the 12volt transformer/stepdown to operate all the 12 volt componants
Taking these batteries below 10v effectively kills them. So a previous deep discharge maybe because your OVMS was plugged in seriously compromised the battery, so your batteries own monitoring wasn’t working properly because the battery that powers it was damaged. The way i understand EV’s there is a contactor (electro-mechanical switch) which turns on the 400v battery to the car, however this contactor needs the 12v battery to operate it, which of course once operated will charge the 12v battery.
Now the other thing is to fire up an EV does not require a large current unlike starting a fossil car (starter motor cranking an engine) so turning on the EV does not really drain the 12v battery at all, so moving the vehicle should not effect the 12v battery.
You might consider lithium ion for your replacement 12v battery. Can last a decade instead of couple years and up to 70% lighter.
Only thing I would worry about is the characteristics can be different, maybe the car will hurt it.
The charging voltage can be too high, or too low.
Maybe the battery saver will fail to detect low battery, an start charging too late.
If I replace the led acid in my Model 3, I will check with Tesla Servicecenter to confirm the modification first. I have heard Tesla talking about Li-ion for new cars, but I don't know if it is as easy as just swapping, or if the circuit has to be different.
It’s happened to me a couple of times, but it’s definitely when it gets very cold (below zero). I’ve found that keeping it connected to my zappi helps, but without the OVMS to warn me, I’d have far more problems. I’ve used the zappi in those circumstances to add some charge and that kick-starts the recharge of the 12v 😁
While we have been locked down, every day, when I walk the dog, I pop into my Nissan Leaf and just turn the ignition on. When I come back, after I have walked the dog, I turn the ignition off and lock the car up.
The problem i had with a trickle charger on my motorbike is that you don’t know that the battery is no good......until you’re on your ride, have stopped and need to go again. It’s a real pain 🥴
I think one of the main reasons for having a 12v battery in all ev's is the cost of ancillary electrical stuff like bulbs, pumps heaters etc. KIA has access to the global established market for 12v stuff. If KIA used a 400v system they would have to make everything from scratch and unique to the Niro. No stuff aftermarket ex Halfords etc would work either so it would push up the cost of the car unnecessarily all round.
But it is zero problem to make a voltage converter from 400V to 13V. It may be they do not want to be complely dependent on the big battery for some reason. Let say for fault diagnostics.
If the battery holder is able to support a physically bigger battery with higher Ah capacity, go for it. I updated the original 40Ah of my 2015 vw e-up to a 54 Ah, the difference is like night and day. Remember that a 12v battery life is 4 years in general.
My 2023 is giving upp after 6 month, must be a faktory wrong , my 2020 have 3 battery failur.
12V battery problem on Kia e-Niro purchased in March 2021.
In April 2022 I've found battery flat. The dealer has replaced it because "defective".
January 2023: battery is flat again (3V after 2 days without using it): tomorrow I'll go to the dealer hoping that they fix again.
What is the problem with battery? From my point of view, the problem is that the car DC/DC charger in the EPCU unit is set for a high voltage. When I push the brake pedal and turn on the car, I see 14.7-14.8V on 12V battery.
In the original Kia 12V battery instructions it's written to "charge battery with max 14.4V!
What is the 12V battery voltage on your car, when car is ON (ready to drive, so with the internal DC/DC converter ON)?
Do you know if is possible for the dealer to regulate the DC/DC converter voltage to be less than 14.4V?
Thanks.
I had issues on my car with the battery that kept on being flat, turned out after replacing the battery my tracker was draining the battery, mechanic couldn’t find or get to the tracker but he did cut the wire that charged it seeing as the shop that fitted it are closed due to covid
This problem just happened to me. Kia Niro EV (as it's called in "the states") 2019. Bought it in 2020, so just barely within the 3-year battery warranty. I had driven it fine, parked it for two days in normal temps, then in morning found out it was dead. Measured the battery and it showed 4.5V (eg, dead). Did the jump start on it, was able to turn it on, but once the jumper starter turned off the car was dead again... (I should try turning car in READY mode to see if it can charge up the battery)... though I am recharging the battery now and hope it can be good enough to drive for an hour to my nearest Kia dealership to have the confirm and replace the battery under warranty (I hope they dont make it difficult for me)...
My ID.3 has been having 12v issues recently (it’s very common with the ID.3) and had to force charge it by switching it on and leaving it for hours. The early software of the ID.3 doesn’t charge the 12v unless you’re driving or have it turned on.
FWIW, a 12v battery needs 14.5+ volts going in to charge - 13volts is just a preservation charge and doesn’t really increase the charge.
I bought a cheap Bluetooth battery monitor that you attach to your 12v and leave it. It’s very useful to keep track of the state of it and brings peace of mind.
Mine battery die after 60k on clock,and I was in middle of nowhere,at 2am,then I found out,I have 18v battery drill in the trunk,so after few minutes,I found it two pieces of wire,and I was able give my self jump from drill battery
Hi Andrew ,
I have Kia e niro 71 reg . I’m facing a problem of 12v battery failed many times to start. I have a booster which I use to start the car . I took the car main dealership they there is software issue. I had the car one full day. It’s fixed for two weeks but facing same issue. I had book my car to Kia on 25th April for this month.
As you had the car long time. Please advise me how I resolve this issue.
Looking forward your advice.
Thanks
You could try reconditioning the battery with a good quality charger. When lead acid batteries go flat they get a build up of sulphates on the plates that stop them working properly. Reconditioning tries to remove this by pulsing the battery to knock the deposit off the plates. Your car won't do this on its own; it needs a more specialist charging system.
Look for a 12v charger that (believably) says it offers reconditioning. These chargers won't be cheap. I've had mine many years and it was about £50 when I got it 10 years or more ago.
My reconditioning charger has recovered the 12v battery in my ICE car on quite a few occasions, saving me from having to replace it after letting it go flat through a lack of use, or carelessness.
Hey Andrew. Get a Bluetooth 12v battery monitor. Amazon have them for £25. I have them for my soul and id3. They log the voltage on the battery for up to 35 days. Hardly use any power themselves. Shows if you have a phantom current draw and when your car is recharging the 12v battery.
Thanks Bob - that’s the next video!
Very informative thanks. My 12v has died on my PHEV Niro several times, twice because I left the boot open too long ! It would be useful for Kia to provide a quick user guide for basics like this. Moving from a diesel has taught me a lot about the benefits and cautions needed with EVs. Portable charger is a great idea.
Hello Mr Till. We are looking to buy E-Niro 4+ 2021 EV but we are really put off by 12v battery as you highlighted. Car will be doing about 650 miles evwry week (130 miles /day) Mon- Fri. Has rhwat issue been fixed now as we watch your channel and are aware you have a Kia E-Niro ev now. Any help would he greatly appreciated. ❤
Funnily enough, I just had an issue with the 12v today while we’re in the Italian Alps on holiday. Video coming soon.
I think it’s just because my 2020 e-Niro hasn’t had a firmware update that should improve 12v battery management but I’ll take it to Kia when I’m home in a couple of weeks. It could also just be because the 12v battery is old.
It’s not enough to make me regret getting the e-Niro as I still think it’s a fantastic EV, but I’d certainly recommend getting an emergency jump starter just in case.
misterev.co.uk/gear/jump-starter
Stay tuned for the video anyway!
@@MrEV Thank you for getting back to us while on holiday.❤️ Have a fantastic holiday😊. 👍
If you could touch on couple of things: How wide spread is this problem with Kia 12v batteries? Is this just certain models/years? And what firmware update would bw the cure? By the way we are looking to buy directly from Kia Dealer 2021 model 4+ but very nervous as wife does long miles and need it to be not stressfull🤞🤞
@@MrEV Sorry, woule that also mean we will not be to Hard Wire Dashcams back and front? So not to drain battery?.👍
@@MixBags There are plenty of people that have hard-wired dash cams in their e-Niros without a problem. If they're always on (when the car is turned off) then you may have issues but otherwise they'd be fine.
@@MrEV thank you. Look forwrad to your Next video. 👍😊
had the same issue with my eniro (2.5 years old)...made the mistake of plugging a cool box in for 10 min before leaving and flattened it and its never been the same since..went away for a weeks holiday a month later and its failed again sitting in the drive, looks like I need a new battery
You can help your 12v battery by replacing any incandescent bulbs by led ones from AliExpress, for the interior and exterior. For headlights buy quality ones with a proper cooling solution. To get rid of canbus warning, you might need led bulbs with integrated resistors ( consume more ) or better, use a canbus dongle and app to change the profile of lights from normal to Led, it will stop the failed bulb warnings and not necessitate resistors led bulbs, so consume less.
Hallo John,
Are you able to give more information about the mentioned canbus dongle and app to change the profile of lights from normal to led?
Do you have a link to a website where this canbus dongle is available?
Thanks in advance!
This dead battery happens on a lot of hybrid cars Ford, Toyota Hyundai etc. This is awful bad design to allow the 12vt to go too low and kill the car start. It just happened to my wife 5 minutes ago. We are use to it
I have a 2017 niro hybrid, the batteries dead, I want to replace it but don't know which spec to get, can someone help me please
Lead/acid batteries are ruined in the summer from the heat, and it fails in the winter. If a standard L/A is discharged below 12.2 volts it will ruin the inside lattice. Replace with an AGM battery and mount a charger i the car and recharge the 12v battery i cold periods every 2 weeks.
Thanks, Andrew.
In short: Make sure that the replacement 12 Volt Lead/acid battery is rated for deep discharge (Deep Cycle). If not, and if it's only a standard high current car battery, it will be useless after a handful of discharges.
No Lead/acid battery likes being completely discharged, so it must be either a cost-cutting measure or else ignorance which drove the decision to use that battery type as auxiliary batteries in EV's.
I’m intending to upgrade to a 12v LiFePO4 lithium battery the next time the regular 12v battery fails, if not sooner. Some models designed for automotive use declare themselves empty at 20% state of charge, meaning you can “jump” them by enabling the last 20% (letting you start the car and start charging it again), from what I understand. :-)
You spent quite a bit on testing the battery and jump stating it. Why not try replacing the two year old lead acid battery? Great, interesting video BTW.
Yeah, when a 12v battery gets close to its end of life, it goes all of a sudden.
Hello. Thanks for a great video and have got my first e Niro and love it. But i think the 12v battery is on its way out so its need to be replaced. My questioning is can i replace it myself, i have changed many batteries on cars but never on an EV. It it still a process of just unplug and replace ?
Thanks
I've not done it myself but yes, as far as I'm aware there's no difference with an EV.
@@MrEV great many thank.
my ioniq uses bat saver every day if not driven by 11am in winter its now 945 am
may be we should ask why are they so small and low amp capacity.
you need at least 10 miles to charge the battery or turn on car for 25 minutes
my battery is brand new. there is a lighter one you can get that just has 3 lights
the thing is that the drop between full and car not seeing the battery is not very much
my ioniq battery was dead after 1yr 7months when i bought the car thats why i have new battery due to massive dead cell
Andrew. Don’t pay too much attention to the battery tester. They always say REPLACE when all it might need is a really good long charge. How long did you leave it in Utility mode? I’ll bet not long enough! To fully charge and rejuvenate from flat takes ages no matter what charging method is used. Leave it in Utility mode for 10 hours minimum! Leave heater, lights etc off so as to not waste energy. Then your battery should be near 100% SOC. Then going forwards, never leave anything plugged into OBD port, avoid dashcams and avoid the accessory mode like the plague (starting without foot on brake). Never use that mode even for a minute it is a real battery killer. Also, if you sit charging car with power on that’s fine but the moment the charging ends, turn off the car immediately. Else it is discharging the 12V heavily as it is in accessory mode again. As you said, always ether be in ready or utility mode when doing anything. Never ever use accessory mode! Get a BM Bluetooth 12V logger!! Connect it to the battery. It uses almost no power (less than 1mA), it records graphs of the 12V status 24/7/365. www.amazon.co.uk/Battery-Monitor-Bluetooth-Device-Tester/dp/B08F9ZN5XW/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=BM2+monitor&qid=1613763673&sr=8-2
Then you will see completely what is going on. You may have a fault on the car drawing excess power when it’s off, but maybe not. You can check the status regularly without even opening the car. Maybe even from inside the house if it’s close enough! I cannot praise these things enough. They should come standard on cars. My Eniro has been fine. The Battery saver+ doesn’t actually monitor the 12V state, it simply comes on every day for 20 minutes to top up the battery at 14.7V CV. That is enough to keep up with normal self discharge but it will not compensate for Dashcams, OBD scanners or any other additional loads. Nor will it recharge a fully depleted battery. Give it a really good long charge in Utility mode, get a BM2 ASAP then see how she goes. Cheers Peter. (PS thanks for the Octopus referral I assume you got it too a couple of months back😉)
PS, Your 12V battery may have been degraded a bit due all the deep discharge events you’ve had, but my guess is it will recover if you give it a long enough charge. Please try it anyway. Peter
This has happened to me on two episodes and into the workshop both times. The dealer couldn't find any fault but replaced the fried battery second time.
I found on speakev forum that the battery saver + should be ticked; it wasn't! The dealer didn't check this or tell me about it. So with a new 12v battery and this box ticked the problem has gone away.
The timing of this video is funny. My next video, about things I hate about my Niro EV, comes out this week and one of my biggest issues is the 12V battery failing me 😎
I'm looking forward to it!
What’s the solution......or the ‘’better’’ solution? Get a Tesla?🤔
@@TheArjulaad the solution is to have the upgraded software that fixes the issue. The Kona got an update that fixed the problem and it seems that in Europe there is an update for 2019 Niro EVs that also fixes the issue. I spoke to my dealer here in Canada and unfortunately there is no update for me at this time so it seems that the update is not available here. I opted to install a bigger 12V battery that uses AGM technology.
We’ve had our E-Niro 4 since august and had no 12v issues but I have kept an eye on it because of people’s issues but the 4 seems to have done a decent job at keeping it alive during our cold weather here in Yorkshire. UVO is currently saying caution as it’s probably dropped below 50% in the cold and the car hasn’t moved in 3 weeks. I would also say that a good old fashion multimeter will tell you everything you need to know about the battery voltage and health and that’s what I’ve used.
Thanks Andrew for helpful info.
I will collect my e niro 3 tomorrow 😃😉
Congratulations! You'll love it.
I hope you love yours as much as I do mine
Yeahh got it amazing e-niro grey 3 parked outside my home from a few hours. Excited 😃
I bought a jump pack in the black friday sales. It also has an air compressor, an emergency flashing red led and a white led worklight as well as a usb-a out socket.
I am hoping never to need this for our ID.3 but you never know ...
Good buy! You should be fine in the ID.3 - I've not heard of any issues with that!
I would say you do not look like a condom, and Mrs EV has got a one track mind. And it’s a dirt track.
I am planning to get an EV but this issue, which seems to be happening on a number of different EV's, not just the e-Niro, is starting to make me wonder if I go with EV or stick with ICE.
I may just have been incredibly lucky but I can honestly say that over 47 years of driving ICE cars I've never had to replace, or even charge a 12v battery? Lots of these cars were 5 years old or older too, so not just brand new ones where you'd be very surprised and disappointed if the 12v battery failed.
Is the 12v battery still under warranty on your e-Niro?
Just make sure to interigate them to understand if the manufacturer is stuck in a mindset to only charge while driving, like old car onlycharge while ICE is running.
I know many people had similar issues with ICE, if they do too much short trips during winter, and the starter use slightly more than they are able to charge on a short trip, with heater on full.
Robert, I think you have been very fortunate not having any battery issues. I have had multiple new vehicles and my experience is that a 12v battery that will last around 3 to 4 years. When ever I have replaced a battery, I always get one with a 5 or 6 year warranty as they will last longer over time and I can avoid the inconvenience of battery related issues. I have the Kia 2019 Niro EV and this last year it has not been driven much and as gone 2 months without being started or charged. I have had no 12v battery issues and the high voltage battery did not seem to loose and noticeable amount of charge. The Battery Saver+ is enabled in the settings. Good luck in your search to see if an EV is for you. I love my Niro EV.
Never load test your battery when it is charging!
Toyota Yaris cross is a pain in the back side with the battery discharging
Bonjour moi aussi je rencontre ce problème en ce moment
La référence de votre booster pour la batterie sur Amazon puis je l'ai avoir
En ce moment je la charge directement avec un chargeur 12 v si vous avez résolu votre problème ca m'intéresse
60,000km not a single fail on a Tesla. They monitor it all the time
use the spec off the battery to buy a new one - tayna in wales are good and they deliver very quick - halfords etc will steal your wallet - have same issue on 1.0 peugeot due to cold weather and not much use - those charge packs are the best thing ive bought :D
Isn't that battery AGM, not just a regular flooded one?
have you seen finland tonys video starting up at -40 no problem with the 12 volt even at that temp
True. In Switzerland, we've just had a week of sub-zero temperatures and it hasn't been an issue.
ua-cam.com/video/aE7oaYu9yzw/v-deo.html
Another brilliant and helpful video! Thanks very much!
It seems that EVMS is also drainging the battery
It would make sense to have a deep cycle(leisure battery) as it doesn’t need a high amp lead acid battery in an EV.
And I don’t think they cost that much more.
They cost approximately the samme, just optimized for different purposes.
One is short high power,
the other is deep charge lower power.
If you want deep charge high power, that when they cost much more ....
Really good explanation. Exactly the same problem with my 2020 E Niro EV. We got the Li ion jump starter as you suggested, a life saver. Ultimately the problem looks like the battery is past it. Did a new battery solve it for you?
Yes - I never had the issue again… on the e-Niro anyway. The issue reared its ugly head on the IONIQ 5 when I got that!
In my case the jump starter did not help, so did't connecting to other car's battery. How to turn the automatic charging on? Thanks.
The jump starter didn't work?! Then all I can think is the 12v must be completely dead and you'll have to get a new one.
Hello, thank you very much for the detailed and amazing explanation, is it possible to replace the 12 volt battery with a deep discharge gel type battery in the Byd Atto3?
I have heard of people doing that. (Lithium ones as well.)
You just have to make sure it’s the correct size to fit in the space of course.
Thanks for another great video take care and stay safe and safe travels if you need to travel everyone!
Hi, I am about to take delivery of a KIA E Niro and I am very interested in the 12V jump started as shown in your video. However I am struggling to find this product online. Can you send me a link?
I can no longer find the one I bought but this seems pretty close in terms of size:
amzn.to/3ynnG9k
I'm wondering if there are lithium deep cycle batteries to replace these crappy ICE batteries because as the car does not need heavy grunt to turn an engine over but just needs to fire up the electronics a lithium should be perfectly good.
There are companies that sell them but they’re very expensive. I was offered one to review a while back from an American company but didn’t take them up on the offer because I was so busy at the time. I may look into it properly again.
I have a Kona ev same thing happens to the Kona.
Your OVMS is actually draining the battery to monitor it, you shouldn’t let it plugged all the time.
It’s not - I’ve had it unplugged after it drained the 12v. I just use it while I’m driving now.
Hi Andrew, decided to watch this after experiencing a flat 12v twice in the 4 days since took ownership of a brand new Ioniq Electric. After 3 calls to the dealer they have offered to replace the battery tomorrow morning. We are well and truly into winter now, so it’ll be interesting to see if the issue persists with the same frequency.
Just starting to get 12 volt battery low warnings on my 20 month old ioniq. Hasn't fully discharged yet but i do have a 45 min commute. Only a matter of time i guess. How long is th warranty on the 12 volt?
@@alanbrad3727 sorry to hear that. I’m sure the warranty on the 12v battery is the same as the rest of the car. Check with your local dealer before paying for a replacement.
@@marvinsamuels1237 thanks, if it does fail I'll call the local dealer. I might try a trickle charge at the weekend.
check out finland tony;s e niro
Why dont you put the car in utility mode?
Put in a "marine-deep-discharge-protected" equivalent battery. I drive a Audi Hybrid, and when I drive in EV mode,... I encounter the same problem! Stupid design, when I hook up the car to the grid, it SHOULD check the 12V circuit and start the DC-to-DCO converter to top up the 12V battery! Currently the DC-to-DC converter ONLY activates when you drive, and on short trips (typical for PHEV's) the time during the trip is too short! Stupid designs.
But as you said, you have a 400V to 12V charger already so why didn't they just make that beefier so it could drive all the loads directly?! A PWM step down circuit is not that expensive any more so its just lazyness from the manufacturer :(. The battery could be made from capacitors, li-ion or liFePo4 chemistry and it could be charged extremely fast. But then they couldn't charge the customer for battery service anymore since it wouldn't fail.
12v automotive batteries need to be able to charge to higher than 10.5v. Lower than that and a sealed battery is near enough junk. 12v batteries operate within relatively small margins. They are at their peak charge at around 12.9v and operationally flat at 12v, (12.4v to 12.5v = 50% charged). Though a reading of 12.6v is good. When an ICE vehicle recharges the 12v battery, it does so on a trickle charge, which is why it can take 20-40mins., (depending on CCAs, size of engine, temp, etc.) of running the engine, just to recoup the charge used to turn over the engine for 15secs.
12v batteries should not exceed 13.8v for extended periods of charging; nor 14.4v for short periods of charging, 8hrs. max.)
If you’re going to swap your battery, you may like to look at AGM, (Absorbent Glass Mat). These are more expensive but can cope with a lower SoC for longer. And suffer less from gassing. All lead acid batteries gas as part of their operation. If you have a non-sealed battery, (harder to find these days) gassing is not a problem. As you check the battery each month. If the electrolyte is not covering a plate/s, you simply top the cell/s up with distilled water. With a sealed battery, there is no checking but the battery doesn’t last as long, as the electrolyte eventually gases to the point of exposing the plates/mats.
When you buy a new sealed battery. The instructions say to remove the transit plugs. The little red/black plugs either end. These prevent leaks of acid during storage & delivery transit. During normal operation, the battery gases and this expanding gas needs to be able to vent.
I suspect, though don’t know, that when an EV recharges the 12v from the traction pack. It does so, by chucking a load of amps at it. Much more than the alternator’s trickle charge of an ICEd vehicle. So your few minutes of charging using you jump pack, did indeed fully supply those missing few volts.
I know CCA aren’t that important for an EV. But they are generally a measure of the battery’s potential power over a period of time; and bigger batteries last longer. So if it’s a choice between two batteries that have the same external dimensions but one has a greater CCA capacity, choose the higher one.
my 2005 Prius also has a 45 Ah aux 12v battery , I tried using a standard 45 Ah Bosch battery but it didnt last long it needs to be a more expensive AGM battery which can handle the deep discharges.
Andrew you're a genuine guy a lot of people would keep this info to themselves, also a natural teacher. Please keep your videos coming.
Brian.
Strange comment keeping it to yourself makes someone feel bettter.?
My Kona has same problem, currently in dealer as even though it has has the latest update it still goes flat, it's been there for a week now and they still can't find what's going on, the battery is fine they have done a full test, it seems to top it up, yet once a week or so I will go and find it flat. It also managed to do an un-initiated E-call all by itself which was strange. Dealer tells me that Data is being extracted apparently and a technical case raised what ever that means ! I don't understand why a simple software fix " IF Car_state = Off & Aux_Bat.Voltage < 11.8 then run top_up Aux Battery. I noticed that after completing charging overnight a couple of hours later it would start up again, where the 12V charge had sucked a bit of power from the traction battery which caused it to fall below the charging level threshold. That can't be right. Love your video's.
Had my 12v battery replaced by Kia no further issues
Good to hear!
I remember when the 12V replaced the 6V way back in the 50s.
It's gonna get replaced by an even higher voltage one (40-48 V) sometime in the future. Watch the interview between Elon Musk and Sandy Munro!
@@sly1024 yeah but that was going to happen more than a decade ago in the industry.
Wiper motors, fan motors might need to be in-house also making verticality even greater .
I had the same issue with my brand new Tesla Model 3 LR 2021 :/
I got the car on 17.12.2020 and it died on me for the first time on 17.01.2021. To be fair it was -15C that night and the car had 26% of charge when I left it. After boosting, it worked for 1 day, and died again. They towed it to the service for 1 week and they had to change the heat pump harness. They gave the car back to me and after 4-5 days it died again (this time -5C and 60% od charge)... Second service (again towing and waiting a week) and again they changed the heat pump harness and gave it back to me. In the evening I went to the car wash and on my way back the car starter showing a message that 12V battery needs replacing (+3C and 80% charge). So I just drove the car back to the service center. This time they told me that actually the 12V battery needed to be replaced - they replaced it and kept the car for few days to see what will happen. So far so good.
On the plus side they gave me a Model X loaner for the time my car was in service.
On the minus side, the Model X is just a stupidly huge car with old style interior, too high Wh/km, low range and I didn't like it - I missed my own car.
The worst part when a 12V dies in a Tesla, is that you cannot do anything without a booster - the car just won't open and won't even let you get to the 12V battery itself - there's no handle to open the hood :/ You need a booster to open the frunk and only then you can recharge the 12V. Further more the car even after boosting needs like 1-3 minutes to start up the systems, so you will be able to do anything and check if it works.
I think that the EVs are not properly designed for people that don't plug them in every night in the garage. I live in a flat, and the car just stands there by the curve and I only recharge 1-2 times a week using a public charger.
If the main battery can provide 12v to charge the 12v battery, why can’t it power the 12v items on the car, lights, wiper motor etc? Is it because it can supply sufficient to trickle charge, but can’t supply enough power to run wipers etc?
I have this exact car 2022 Kia niro ev an as of 45 days ago my dash info keeps saying check headlight. So I check headlight an it’s out. But the weird part is ever since this message if I turn the car off for 30 minutes an then come back an start it the battery for some reason is dead an I have to jump it every time it does it which is highly aggravating. An now it’s even worse I can’t even leave the car off for 10 minutes without coming back to it and an having to jump it again Very frustrating I don’t know what the problem is but I’m taking it in.
In my owners manual (United States) is says if Aux Battery Saver+ is required 10 times in a row that it will shut the system off because it believes the battery is damaged. That may have happened here.
Also to note discharging a 12v battery below 40% (11.9 volts) will reduce the life of the battery, and discharging below 20% (11.6 volts) will cause damage. You said your battery was down to ~4 volts, so at that point that battery was irreversibly damaged.
Really quite odd that they’ve stuck with the 12v lead acid auxiliary battery in the EVs. My Ioniq hybrid (note: Kia, Hyundai = same company and hybrid/EV tech shared between the two brands) has its 12v auxiliary battery built into the main lithium ion traction battery pack.
If the auxiliary battery goes flat - mine has done, once, during the previous lockdown when the car stood unused for a couple of weeks - you simply press a button on the dash and the car uses the traction battery to power the auxiliary circuits up, enabling you to start the car, and then the normal charging circuitry can recharge the auxiliary battery.
If they can do this on a £25k hybrid you’d think they would employ the same idea in the near-£40k EV!
(Have a Niro EV on its way to replace my Ioniq, fortunately I have a one of those handy little rechargeable li-ion jump packs in one of my ICE cars, will certainly seem perverse if I end up using that to jump start the shiny, new, horrendously expensive EV!)
How old is the Niro? Is this a warranty issue? I expect a 12v battery to last 5+ years, some are warranted for more. Is there a software update due at service time?
As to why a 12v battery. look upon it as a buffer store between the traction battery and the cars computers, etc.
The only time I had a power failure in my first LEAF was after 2 miles in Turtle mode when everything went black. We pushed the car off the roundabout into safety and called my son at home, 500 mtrs away. By the time he arrived, some 15 minutes later, the 12v battery had recovered enough that I had lights and 'engine' control back. A normal recovery for a 'flat 'battery.
As I tend to keep the cars plugged in I have never had a 12 volt battery problem since. I also use the car nearly every day.
I’m no expert, but there are two distinct types of lead acid 12 volt battery! Normal, and deep cycle, also known as “leisure” batteries.
Ice cars need to have a “Normal” type of 12 volt battery, capable of supplying 90+ amps to power the engines starter motor. An electric car does not have this “high power”need, so it can use what is known as a “leisure battery” which is much better at coping with getting depleted to low voltages. You mostly only see leisure battery’s as a supplemental additional battery in vehicles that are used for camping and will be expected to power radios and lighting for extended periods, and they are not connected to the ignition and starter circuits of the car, and are only connected to the cars alternator derived charging circuit when a relay senses the incoming charge voltage! This system keeps the two batteries electrically separate so leaving the car radio on all night does not leave you unable to start the car in the morning!!!
Leisure battery’s are more expensive due to the design of their internals, and would be damaged if you asked them to start your ice car!!! ( they cannot supply large currents as their internal plates would buckle)
To cut a long story short, electric cars need leisure batteries not normal ones........... hey! Just like Tesla provide!!!
Lithium iron batteries will work fine, and be lighter, but as soon as your car tries to charge it when the temperature is zero degrees C it will be dead. Not slightly dead, but stone dead. Also, changing your lead acid for a lithium iron may require the DcToDC converters charge characteristics to be altered!!! If you overcharge a lithium iron battery it could default to “pyrotechnic” mode.
Sounds like you simply have a dud battery. If you have ever left it down at 0% for long it will be significantly damaged (sulphated).
Like many, I’m watching this video having suffered issues with our 2021 Kia e-Niro 4+. Battery depleted twice after only 6-7 months. Kia replaced the battery, which has failed again after just over a month. The dealership denied knowledge of any issues with batteries, although it seems it’s well documented on the internet. This kind of hassle is not the reason we got a new car and so we’re seeking to terminate our lease. It’ll be a cold day in hell before I have another Kia.