Let's talk about PvP... | The Fateless Podcast
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Let's talk about PvP... | The Fateless Podcast
Fateless is a brand-new game studio created by passionate content creators with the goal of creating amazing community-focused games. On this channel, we are sharing our journey from start to launch of the creation of our first game, and future projects down the line.
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This game keeps sounding better and better so excited for whenever it comes out.
Thank you! It's all uphill from here as things get more and more refined.
One of the toughest things is matchmaking, having people of the same level so there's a healthy balance of wining and losing
a thought on pvp general: ive seen in the past few years that a lot of games seperate pvp from the rest of the game. for example pvp gear is not earned in pve grinding but rather through pvp points that can only be obtained through pvp. i personally really dislike this seperation cause it makes the game feel super segregated. also if u farm for gear the joy u get from a good piece is just that much higher since u know u can use it both in pve AND pvp. just a general thought that applies more to mmorpgs
Our discord is best place to drop ideas like this, one the game idea threads. discord.gg/fateless. We read them all and that's how rest of the community can also chime in on the topic.
Hero balance is a good part of enjoyable PvP. When it's 2-3 meta then you lose the interest.
I think what Dirk was saying about Hearthstone arena and the buy in cost etc is a really good place to be. In HS, you’d need to get 3 wins to “break even” in terms of your investment to enter compared to what you would get if you just spent that gold to buy a pack outright. So in Raid, you can exchange 270 gems for 3 ancient shards. So that’s 90 gems a shard. If Raid had a normalized pvp system that cost 100 gems to enter and 3 wins got you an ancient shard and maybe some silver or a few gems that would be like “breaking even” and if you could average like 6 wins you could “go infinite” where you earn 90-100 gems plus that ancient shard. And if you have that perfect run where you go 12-0 then it’s like hitting the jackpot. I was never good at hearthstone arena TBH so I didn’t engage with it much, but I always thought the concept was cool. I loved constructed so I didn’t want to gamble with my gold/money. I always just bought packs so I could ensure I was getting what I wanted/needed.
I agree heavily with saph on the afk honor duels. I think the RNG adds fun and yes a bit of frustration, but without the RNG you're just playing ladder arena. The major problem is the number of characters. It just ends up making the mode feel same-y. Love the videos guys keep it up! mad excited about the Fateless game
I'm really excited for your game to come out as I've been following this from day 1 and see how much effort you're putting in to balance the game and gather feedback. In regards to PvP, it can be fun, but if it's a core piece of a game I end up deleting it and find something different, especially if it's live PvP. In this stage of my life I don't have much uninterrupted time and need to pause and come back often (like I love League but can't stay uninterrupted even for shorter matches like Wild Rift). If I can have fun and progress with only PVE and just dabble in PvP and get some rewards for doing so you've nailed it. In hearing you talk through this topic I'm confident the Fateless team will create a good balance.
Especially the kiddos won't really ask if the game has a pause or not. Thank you for the kind words!
Maybe it would be a good idea to have one currency/keys for multiple game modes so that everyone can choose where to spend them.
Cool idea, drop it on discord.gg/fateless for more people to see.
PVP rewards could be skins, effects, banners, icons, or some other cosmetic means of displaying a player's achievements.
You should drop this idea to our discord at discord.gg/fateless so more people see it.
@@FatelessGames Added it to an existing thread in the discord concerning pvp.
imo the issue with Ramantu isnt the pvp requirement, it's the issue with a capped player base at each tier
Qunitus for example isn't affected by this and objectively far easier than Ramantu for newer players.
it takes time but you'll get there. And at time goes on, the whales and krakens climb so it gets easier
Having a sense of progression is what's important, otherwise things become a bit dull.
I love the idea of normalized pvp, GW2 did it best imo. I think the rewards should be skins, avatars etc. that people can show off, but not giving an advantage or making it feel compulsory.
Avatars are a pretty cool way to show off.
As a player who only plays raid live arena because of the marius missions...I promise there's still plenty of players there lol. I love hearing all of y'alls thought process. Keep it up gents!
Thanks man. Yeah it's pretty populated, just not popular.
the problem with rewards in pvp not mentioned yet, is how do you prevent people from abusing
ik some higher clans in raid when live went live, were trading wins and losses to get points. harder to do now
u should consider what destiny 2 does with trials of Osiris were u play nine games and try to get flawless to get gear that can help in pve based on ur pvp skills that happens over a weekend. and if u don't know u fight ppl who is on the same score as u so if ur on ur 9th steak u fight other 9th streak ppl. it can give pvp ppl progress without it being to overwhelming and it can give something to show how good u r to have something from that mode
Fun discussion guys!
love it! you guys are killing it.
Appreciate the kind words 😎. More and better stuff to come.
The balance between making PVP rewarding and not too rewarding should always lean towards the players participating in the feature. The majority of players will enjoy PVP if it's good.
The generic phrase of "have to find the right balance" might sound a bit overused, but it is so true. I'm sure that with our team and by being responsive to feedback we'll get it very close to ideal. Thanks for the feedback!
Games that bar newer players from getting certain champions that is exclusive are very good. You need game that is inclusive not bad players from ever having certain champions.
One of raids frustrating things is the advanced quests force you to do a lot of Arena if you want the rewards. 5 tag team battles are required . Those can take 5 minutes each . Players are forced to spend 25-35 minutes on Tag team arena . Forced engagement is bad and leads to resentment, quests should always have the option to select “ complete 8 of 10 quests etc.. ‘ the tank arena meta with forced engagement is awful.
To be fair, if it's only about the daily advanced quests, and you don't care if you lose, you can just cancel each fight after a second and they still count as played.
I still agree though, it's not nice to be forced, especially everyday. I am exactly that guy who didn't enjoy any arena at all (partly because i was/am bad at it). By now, i don't mind the classic, and i actually enjoy the live arena a bit recently. I have not warmed up to tag arena though. It's purely a chore for me. I put it on auto and do something else in the meantime.
The small roster issue, having it normalised, one way round it would be whichever team won a previous week/month (whatever period) could be banned from the next arena etc, which would force people to try new teams on a more regular basis.
Cool suggestion. Drop it on the discord as well discord.gg/fateless
What I hated was in 2021 trying to get Arbiter and having to beat Arbiter teams 3 tier below where I needed to climb. Was just a frustrating situation.
Yeah that time was not enjoyable to say the least..
I think having some obligations (like the 5 battle a day) does helps because it forces you to dabble in it and tou eventually get better and enjoy it more. But for the love of god, never make it sounds like a chore.
Pokemon GO has one of the best normalized, competitive, and curated PvP modes out there for mobile
It has done a lot things right. The boom when Pokemon Go dropped was insane.
I have to say i'm very much with saph on this one. Normalized PvP is amazing and should one hundred percent be a major feature but should not have major impacts on the core game play loop.
Since you guys had mentioned elsewhere that you're really going to try to make profiles and achievements be a big thing, I do think that one way to make it rewarding is to have it show up on your profile what your best run is, or how many 10 in a row runs you have or unlock avatars or cosmetics or things of that nature.
That way, you feel like you get a cool thing to show off if you do it, but if you don't want to do it, you don't feel like you're getting mechanically disadvantaged in the core game play.
This idea would also fit perfectly in our discord if you want to share it there for more people to see and discuss with. discord.gg/fateless , throw it in the idea threads!
@@FatelessGames Will do
At the end of the day , a company need to make money , and if there is not a pay to win system in place you wil not attract the big spenders , you can say that you all think about the players but if you invest 1 or 5 or 10 milj on something you will have to make it back to the investors, and atm usa , Europe, China are starting to ban loot boxes , altered drop rates etc etc.....
One of my favorite pvp modes in a gacha game was back in seven deadly sins , during launch they had a PVP mode that would pit just the raw champions against each other ( any gear you had on the champions didn’t affect the champions power ). Sounds weird at first but what was nice is it kinda allowed people to try and use different strategies and not feel punished by whales to a degree. Don’t get me wrong whales at more options to choose from but they weren’t allowed to run you into the ground with their ridiculous gear. AFK journey has a cool idea going to with that game mode. I think there is a lot of ways to go about it but at the end of the day my biggest thing i would love to see is : a PVP mode that last more then 2 quick rounds. It’s always one team nukes the other. It would be cool to go back and forth and make actual strategic decisions that make each match feel unique.
You should definitely share this idea in our discord so more people including Fateless crew get to see it. discord.gg/fateless
Dirk needs a mic! Buy him a mic! Please!
I’ve been stuck on the Silver IV Tag team ramantu mission for almost a year now
That sure is a painful one, but you'll get there eventually!
i don’t think meta swing can work if champs cost 100,200,1000 bucks like in raid. if your entry level to get champ costs 15 bucks for a mercy reset but you neee 10 copies is maybe working out otherwise you can’t nerf around only balance the 1,2,5-10%
0:14 THIS. 100% THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes some games are just too expensive to play :(
It is not very good if I am barred from having important champions or anyone else.
All I can say is RSL PvP is annoying to me. I dont like participating in it and I really stopped in TTA until I was forced to do it for the major champions quests (which I cant fkn get into Silver II) I also dont even bother with Live Arena because it takes too long and I prefer to hit go and autobattle, not pick, wait, pick, wait...etc. Normalized does sound like it would be a better play, but I do recommend that there arent limited player count tiers like in TTA.
If you have like a ladder structure in mind or any of that sort, we welcome all ideas and feedback in our discord. That way more people from the community see it and the Fateless crew can access them more easily as well! discord.gg/fateless
@@FatelessGames so, I kinda like raids regular arena where there isn’t a player cap on tiers, however, I wish there was an option when choosing opponents, lower tier players could show up in the list. You may not get as many points as say defeating someone closer to your level, but you can still trickle points instead of winning 2 matches, then losing the next for net zero points.
If Fateless turns out to be a good game and it is something I can get into, then I will totally quit RSL.
That is a big IF
This episode should have been titled AFK Journey Discussion.
For real, nothing wrong with discussing other games but if you want your podcast to appeal to a large audience you need to provide a lot more context to your conversations so that your audience can follow. As someone who hasn't played AFK Journey a significant portion of this episode was impossible to follow.
Thank you for the feedback. Might've gotten a bit carried away since the game is pretty hot right now and a lot of people from the Fateless staff are playing it.
I know I might be in the minority… but I hate pvp. I freaking flat out cannot state it strongly enough HATE pvp. I don’t have the time for it, I don’t have the intrest, and like Paul said about romantu I will never get him because I can’t even reach silver in 3v3… I’m lvl 100 been playing for 3 years…. Stall can’t (well don’t want too if I’m being honest, I probably could) so please, please, don’t make me have to do PvP to progress.
There's no identity in balanced based pvp imo.... people want what they earned in the arena.
I have played what you're talking about and it's doa.
PVP in general is so TOXIC and steers away PVE players... Raid Shadow Legends does PVP correct
What the guy said at the start is just incorrect. WoW arena is 90% skill. Current WoW at least.
Exclusive games for long time players are not very good
You can have 1 pvp mode normalized but people dont drop the mortgage payments to get better at pve. I know you want to please everyone but i think you will turn off the main supporters of the game if all the money they spent doesnt matter in pvp unfortunately.
There will be something for everyone. Just have to wait a bit longer to find out the exact details.
Hate pvp, hopefully it's strictly optional
What's the point of PvP if its a game mode so unhealthy that nobody really enjoys it
Please for the love of God don't do equity over equality... Nothings even in life, it's ok to test yourself vs. a whale.
Just focus on match making, and take note of what 40k is going through right now.
I believe that they meant as a add on to the regular whale pvp people generally dislike.
Which if you can do both, why not, right!?!
@gamerriptide4965 Ya, I was just speaking about games that just give everyone the same heroes and levels etc.... boring.
I like overcoming bad odds by out playing someone, but I also want it to be my account.
Ya I agree, it takes away the uniqueness and hard work you’ve put into your account if they normalize things like gear and champion rosters. I would hope only mega-whale things like empowerment are normalized.
This is just one of many things. Something for everybody.