Is it Moral to Kill Child Squires? - Fallout 4 Lore
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- Опубліковано 13 січ 2017
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Human Shields in Warfare
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“I killed them. I killed them all. And not just the knights, but the scribes and the squires too.”
I slaughtered them.
They treated synths like animals, so I slaughter them like animals
I hate them!
I also hate sand....It gets everywhere.
BOS for LIFE
*talks about not killing civilians running for cover while in the background he murders Institute scientists running for cover*
I watched my companion and the minutemen just massacre the scientists running away, it was sad and funny at the same time
Well you can still not kill them and help them evacuate while speaking with Shaun
😂😂😂
Lol they are monsters
Not to mention justifying the death of human squires while demanding that synths must be protected. Oxhorn is a moron. Not to mention he actually misrepresented 2 of the three philosophical positions he described. Idiot.
“Dammit general! You dragged us down to their level! It didn’t have to be this way.” Hearing Preston say that really makes me hurt inside. It really gives you a sense of the potential atrocity you can commit.
But when attacking the prydwen with children he be chill about it.
@@cedricvelarde did you not watch the video? The only way people know if there's children in the brotherhood ship is if they are part of the brotherhood.
@@AlphaK_9 you can still be minutemen even if you have been to prydwen
Would love to bitch slap him back into his fucking place. Who tf talks to their superior like that??? Nah. Gut punch that mf and tell him to watch his fucking mouth.
@@Witch_Bitch86 Superior or not, still a scummy decision.
The Brotherhood didn't have any alarms.
So even if you wanted to save them, they didn't give you a way too.
The fallout 4 BoS was almost wholly dealing with absolutes, they either win, or the pryedwyn goes down and they go down with it.
On one hand I hate this fact, on the other hand, do u remember killing the BoS in new vegas? Seldistruct in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1🔥☄🔥
@@francescoragnoni8042 .... really... building a 5-second warning timer for self destruction is just mean.
Well, my father was in the military and he told me the hardest thing he's ever had to do was shoot a 10 year old. The kid had a Kalashnikov and was shooting at him and his men. He started bawling his eyes out when he told me. It's just what he had to do. War is war. My father isn't "evil" for doing what was necessary. The real evil was those men who put that kid in harms way.
damn
@@18thshaz your profile picture is not good for this moment right now
Exactly, US foreign policy is to blame
@@codeinecowboy8607 I blame gunpowder.
better yet, don’t join the baby killing military
I think Maxson put the Squires on the Pridwyn because he wanted to train them as he was trained. Elder Maxson did of course kill a Super Mutant at age 10, kill a Deathclaw at age 13, and become Elder at age 16 (if I recall correctly). He was allowing his own experiences to cloud his judgment.
I would rather think that this is probably common practice among most warring factions in the FO universe - like in our own history, where drummers, couriers, midshipmen and other roles for kids were pretty common practice...
“Every corpse on Mount Everest was once a highly motivated individual”
Jesus...
@@stealthynaxo Not sure if Jesus was into hiking... let alone climbing Mt. Everest. But pretty sure he didn't die there...
@@robertnett9793 bet
If you side with the railroad, Desdamona says to Tinker Tom something along the lines of "Make sure to send out anyone who isn't waving a gun in your face, institute personal included." implying that she does care if the children and non-hostile scientist survive. Perhaps I'm biased because the Railroad is my favorite faction, but maybe it's possible that she wasn't aware of the children on the Prydwen.
I side with the institute and think they're the best choice, but I agree. The railroad is full of honorable, good people (that's actually the problem, lol), and there is absolutely no way they'd kill kids if they could avoid it.
My first playthrough, I did the rare Minutemen path, and issued the evac order in the Institute. This didn't allow me to progress very far in the Brotherhood, so I never even knew they had kids on the Pridwyn.
Second playthrough, I focused more heavily on the BoS but eventually chose the Railroad. But I became a Paladin and spent a lot more time on the Prid. Wandering around, I stumbled onto the kids on deck, and that was the first time I knew they were on the ship.
I was pissed off by this storyline. I felt like you were (ahem) railroaded into this course of action.
No matter how influential you are in any of the factions, no matter how high your Charisma or associated perks are, you have no ability to influence the actions imposed on you by the writers. And my Charisma was pretty damn high at that point.
Here's what I mean. The BoS in this game is what it is purely because of Maxon's influence and control. As you pointed out in a previous video, they ran a completely different show under Lyons. Even in New Vegas, there's a cult of personality driving the way they operated there.
In this game, you can attain a very high profile in the Brotherhood. I was even capable of convincing Maxon himself to let Danse live.
But there's no option to try and wage an ideological war for the heart of the Brotherhood. No capacity to wrest control of the Brotherhood from Maxon, or to simply convince him that there's a better option than exploding everyone he doesn't like.
Same is true of the Institute despite becoming the actual goddamn director, and the same is true of the Railroad.
You can't employ the very skills you've developed over dozens of levels to effect any change in events that doesn't involve bullets.
That's fine for a novel or a movie. But this isn't either of those things. It's an interactive story. A game where you are meant to affect the outcome instead of stand witness to what the writers force you to do.
Of course, there are always gonna be limits on that idea. So you have to accept the limits to some degree. But this instance rankled quite a bit.
I wished I could've had an option to get those squires out. Maybe they just didn't have time to write something like that in. Or maybe they just didn't care. There's certainly no written consequence for letting those kids get exploded.
You know, I'm tempted to go explore the wreckage area. I half suspect to find three indestructible kids just hanging around spouting the same few lines of dialogue...
I think you hit the nail on the head here. This is a great criticism of the Fallout 4 story, where I think most criticisms fail. It's a great story, but it has its flaws, as you covered well.
I didn't even know there was a Minuteman path.
I second that agreement on the severe limitations placed upon the storyline. Bethesda shot itself in the foot with this incarnation of fallout in many ways that it simply didn't in the past, mostly due to the limitation of using a voiced protagonist. When you are working with only so many lines of possible dialogue, you really kill off a ton of options, since more options mean more voice work, and paying out exponentially more money. I hope the next incarnation returns to the silent protagonist with more options again, otherwise I will be ignoring any further content from this game.
Very well said, i do wish you had a bit move control over the other factions besides minutemen to shape them. There was code etc where Danse would challenge Maxson for leadership but it never made it into final game. I did actually explore the wreckage and was no one alive left there, i only found a few adult bodies.
There are so many conversations that could have enabled cooperation among the factions. There are so many avenues where the Institute could have been spared, either being redeemed or occupied by one of the other factions instead of being blown up and wasting all that potential.
One example that comes to mind is redemption. Father expresses more than once that he doesn't know that synths are wiping out settlements to collect supplies or replacing people to spy on the Commonwealth. A quick conversation about how many times scavenging synths had tried to kill the Sole Survivor for no reason could have Father screaming at some of the other division heads. Father has been convinced (perhaps deliberately deceived) that the Institute is benign while their synths are actively making life harder topside.
This could have influenced a redemption type branch, where Father corrects this problem and attempts to make reparations for all the trouble. You might start to see the more robotic synths showing up in your settlements to provide protection and others delivering mass produced supplies to help out the settlers. The Railroad could be brought to heel if Father can be convinced to spare the synths that have been liberated. The Brotherhood would become the obvious villain at this point, refusing to tolerate advanced medical technology being disseminated to the common settlers and perhaps attacking in the name of their doctrine.
Ultimately, I believe most players would spare the institute if they could be truly redeemed by helping the people of the Commonwealth and finally beginning reconstruction.
I believe the reason elder maxon allows children onto the prydwen is because he himself was in a war zone when he was a child. If we go back to fallout 3, squire maxon resides within the Citadel, the Brotherhood of Steel's home base in fallout 3 under elder Lyons. He was trained by knights and paladin's there, so I believe elder maxon is trying to recreate this idea and raise future hardcore devoted followers for the Brotherhood. Whether that's morally correct, I don't know. Some could say this is indoctrination and doesn't allow free thinking, but it could also be argued that this is form of parenting or mentoring the children instead of the letting the wastes corrupt them into raiders
Difference is that the prydwen is a easy to destroy mess, while the citadel was a fortified monster of a base with paladins surrounding all exteriors. Not to downplay the prydwen, but the citadel had much better advantages.
@@jimbo2947 True, but the BOS is new in the CW. They don't have the presence or resources to build a headquarters when the events of Fallout 4 are taking place. They do have several stategic bases from which their soldiers operate, but those are all pretty much temporary and in no way safe for children. For all they know the Prydwen is the safest place possible to protect children.
@@kostaspassias3815 They have this ABSOLUTELY giant base right below the prydwen, and considering as soon as it gets there the SS (Im assuming based on timelines in quests) clears out fort strong, why not get people to scout out the area if theres any more mutants and move some of their supplies and things over there, along with the children. The railroad isn't exactly going to be able to sneak in their with people in power armor everywhere over there. Honestly they could probably make fort strong their whole operation area and just set up shop their. Theres only one way in and out, so why have all their supplies be at risk, squires be at risk, and have a few backup men? Not only that, but they've got a whole bridge which they can fill with soldiers to keep out mirelurks.
@@jimbo2947 no it's not. The citadel was lightly defended as you may learn in the game. They'll put up a fight but it won't matter.
@@hughjass8454 Their only threat was super mutants. Who do you think is gonna win, 50 paladins with laser rifles, gatling lasers and gauss rifles, or 50 supermutants with a rocket launcher as their best weapon? My point still stands, its idiotic to keep the children on the prydwen, and is one of fallout 4's many weird choices.
A long time ago, I was a soldier. I saw 'child soldiers' in the field, saw a few of my comrades die at their hands. The US has a long history through the civil war, of having very young boys as drummers, runners, flag carriers etc... There is blood on most of our hands...
exactly. "war is hell" is a saying for a reason. in a war of survival, you'll be forced to do a lot of things you don't want to just to ensure you see another day. it's never pretty or honorable.
@@theghostofthomasjenkins9643 Except only the guilty get sent to hell. Innocents often get caught in war. Usually, a war they never wanted.
Not only the US - drummers, midshipmen, cabin boys, carriers and couriers have been kids roles for millenia world wide.
Your character :
*blows up prydwen or institute*
Helen Lovejoy:
Will somebody please think of the children!
I really like how he explains it... "We'd blew up the Prydwen which had tens of hundreds of people in it, not to mention the casualty's caused by the crash, BUT THERE WERE A FEW KIDS THAT DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Is everybody forgetting A CAT DIED!
@@hughjass8454 😲
@@casualamer8543 poor kitty.
@@hughjass8454 its proctor quinlans cat so it can probably pilot vertibirds it's fine. Or it'll get into some cat sized power armour and jump ship
@@casualamer8543The cat is safe? Yes!
I mean, Arthur grew up in an active warzone, hell, he mentions in Fallout 3 that Sarah Lyons took him out to shoot Super Mutants. Granted, he shot Sarah on accident, but still.
He probably just doesn't see anything wrong with it, it's how he grew up, being escorted from the fallen Lost Hills Bunker, all the way across the Wastes to the Citadel, which was constantly under siege by Super Mutants. Arthur didn't know peace as a child, and it made him into a massive badass, why should it be any different for them?
Damn that's a good point
He shot sarah?!?!
@@rileythedisturbedsoul4822 when he was a child during a live fire exercise. Its on his terminal in fallout 3.
I love how your voice cracks for a second when telling Preston that "we were there to destroy the Institute". Maybe it's just a oversight on the voice actor's part, but I like to think it's intentional and brilliant for a "renegade" Minutemen ending.
The pain of life is defined by what lies between the black and the white. Tell me what would you do when the gray has grown so dim that an outsider only see's the black. Fallout 4 is full of decisions that are all not entirely justifiable.
Institute: Productive manufacturing facilities and potential for essentially no power issues. These guys are making NEW things. They could single-handedly save the world. Under the right leadership.
Railroad: Devoted and motivated to give their own lives for the sake of the freedom of others. They have tactics, connections, and kit to acquire resources and information that could help in a variety of situations.
Minuteman: Stubborn and loyal to their neighbors(all of them in fact). They have a presence everywhere, and are staffed by men and women of character(most of the time). The community trusts them(eventually) because of the actions of its General.
Brotherhood of Steel(Maxson's Legion): Technology, discipline, armor, and firepower. They are a bastion of power that only one group on this list manages to take down via brute force, and even then its via ambush. They have the unfortunate boon of knowing what and why things happened in the past. Justifiably so, they are wholly against a recurrence. Which is what is happening in the commonwealth under the management of the current factions before they arrive.
In all four endings your looking at the potential for a brighter future not just for the organization but for the commonwealth in general... The key to any of that is the Soul survivor...
...At least until the SS downloads the Nuka World DLC.
I immediately started open season on my main playthrough when I found out that was an option. I only did side with the raiders on my institute playthrough.
Destroying the Institute without sounding the alarm= COD MWF2, No Russian mission.
Remember, No Synth.
A Kelp Shake + Pumped up kicks in the background
get over it its a video game and mw2 is the best game ever
I went with brotherhood and sounded alarm they didn't say anything so I didn't think anything of it how do you know if they got out or not
I feel really bad because I forgot to do that
Only a synth deals in absolutes
by that reasoning the brotherhood are all synths since their entire creed is based in absolutes.
Kyle Nott- It's a bad Star Wars pun. In Revenge of the Sith, Obi-Wan says 'only a sith deals in absolutes'.
Gregor Hodson That line always bothered me coming from a Jedi; because that line is an absolute
only a sith does, but not all siths do.
Evangeliman this.
When I was young I knew a good many Vietnam Vets. Many of them killed innocent civilians because often times they could not tell who was trying to kill them and who was trying to escape. None that I knew who served in war did not share feelings of guilt. You say the blood of the children of the Prydwen but I do not know of any decent folk who have served in combat who do not bear the scars of those civilians they did or even may have killed. It may be Maxons fault they are there (even if only because of error in judgement) but the sole survivor if still sane will feel the guilt over their deaths as well even if the player feels no qualms with the morality behind such a decision. Fortunately when all is said and done, they are just ones and zeros.
That Said. Thank you for having put together such a great series on the lore behind the game. I have long been a fan of the lore behind the fallout series, but only recently decided to actually play the game.
A Nam vet I knew talked about the Vietcong using kids to create negative press. They would strap them with bombs and tell them their parents would be returned if they hugged "Joe." Squad gets blown up and next squad shoots the kid running at them because Charlie said to huh Joe. Guy said a kid once walked up to them and said "Hey Joe," before shooting his friend with a handgun. He shot the kid and it haunted him.
Why didn't you say, "War never changes?" This would be the best video for the quote.
i just hate having to blow up the institute, I mean wouldn't it be a perfect place for a hospital? or even just a safe settlement for people to live in. ALL of the factions would benefit from preserving the institute & the tech that they just carelessly blew up. Like who thought it would be a good idea to blow up the most clean, well preserved and maintained facility in the commonwealth that is underground, nearly impermeable, with a TELEPORTER! Like come on!
The writing was terrible. Nothing that happened made sense.
Hannah D There was an Invader Zim episode where the kid breaks into Zim's home and says "There's technology here I would have never dreamed of! I'm gonna blow it all up."
Pretty sure it was Dib but yeah, more or less that's how they act
+ Hannah D It would likely cost too many lives to seize control of the Institute given the synth manufacturing capabilities (we saw just one create a synth in a ridiculously short amount of time) and an entire population of people who would be ideologically opposed to you.
Hannah D mods
I'm surprised the Minutemen ending is a RARE ending!
He didn't say the minutemen ending, he said the one where you don't have to fight the BoS, as a lot of people go for both.
Its just Ox being Ox.
It's rare because it requires you to make some careful steps when doing Brotherhood/Railroad/Institute quests while being a member of the Minutemen, because some of the quests will cause either the Brotherhood and/or Railroad to turn against you and eachother. Becoming enemies with the Institute is mandatory to get this ending.
I would call it rare because it's not as explicit; there are no indicators to point you where you want to go if you want to go for the minutemen ending. It's only when you piss off the institute in your own way (again without any real indicators or directions) that you get the minutemen ending.
Its cause in defending fort freedom they send like 20 coursers after you
Bethesda logic: Killing a kid is too disturbing, but locations full of bodys on hooks, buckets of blood, impaled heads, and gore bags arent. Fail.
Natalija Laonar if they made them killeble , than some countryes would not allow the game to be sold , because "murdering children in a video game is horrible".
Wel, thats vhat mods are for!
Natalija Laonar hey enough kids get killed in America as it is.
@@damianlaughlin7063 damn did it take you 8 months to think of that?
@@An_Cummanach just about, I thought it was rather clever
(At 8:00)
Obi-Wan: ONLY SITHS DEAL IN ABSOLUTES
Is it morally wrong to wash your hands killing the bacteria?
Valentine DAAAAAANNNNBGGGG
yes
Damn.
Jeremy Alexander THEIR STILL BEINGS
K9LEGIT !!, they're not worth considering.
"it's not a blimp, it's a RIGID AIRSHIP"... lol just remembered that Archer episode
7:13 "I'm clearly not a pacifist" - Oxhorn, us: "got that right!"
I got the "rare" ending on my first play through. I just told Father I wouldn't be part of the Institute after first meeting him. From there, i took them down with the Minutemen.
I thought the rare ending was siding with the railroad without killing the BoS. I don't think siding with the minutemen and making enemies with the Institute is all that difficult
I sided with the minutemen and kept the brotherhood friendly, and issued the evacuation order
“Boss you killed a child.... Amazing mission complete, that right there is why you’re boss!”
When you blow up the brotherhood with the minutemen, some veterbirds actually manage to flee and attack you at the castle, what if one of these veterbirds were used to flee the kids or some soldiers
Logicly speaking, for me i planted the bombs while staying hidden and not killing, thus they wouldnt have a chance.
I did it with railroad btw.
@@OriginalName-ge3gv eh. Screw the railroad.
Ya definitely not those didn't come from the prydwen it was blown from the sky
I highly doubt they would send ships to evacuate people right over the castle.
This is going to make me sound heartless but I didn't care about it
Neither did I infact I ignored the children. Because I wasnt overthinking it XD
You're surprised the railroad doesn't care About human life?
Also it's Maxon's fault for insisting they had to come to the commonwealth on the prydwin
Ben Shifflet you're*
You actually think the Brotherhood cares about non-Brotherhood lives?
Evan Ulven "I care about them, you know, the people of the common wealth
Why else would the brotherhood of steel come to Boston
I like to think that one squire survived the crash a d grew up into some badass action hero out for revenge.
lone wolf he won't beat plot armor
If it's his story, he will have plot armor.
8:32 oxhorn literally slaughtered a civilian right there
this deserves more likes
If the brotherhood is so good where the hell were they when the mechanics robots went insane
Blowing through the air because I turned them into ash.
Idk the brotherhood of steel don't use the mechanicist lair factory to mass produce sentribots and assaultrons to make them stronger, or the SS takes it and build a empire of his own
Moral? No. Fun? Yes.
You guys should have come to the commonwealth I would've sided with you
Enclave littiest faction 🔥🔥🔥
Enclave is shit. They were destroyed by a vault dweller and the NCR. So much for being one of the most advanced factions.
Enclave at its finest
I mean, you're killing kids that are dressed like baby nazis. How could that _not_ be fun?
it's not a BLIMP it's a ZEPPELIN it has a metal frame
exde
No, its a ridged-hull airship.
ooh
It's a boat
It's a cute boat
Me: oh look theres a kid..
LOL
**BANG**
"There was never a good war, or a bad peace." -Benjamin Franklin
why cant the game let you be evil? back in fallout 3 there were positives and negatives to it
You can, by leave the little Sean in institute for die, and you also can be completely evil in nuka world, and coming back to commonwealth murder all you settlements....
You can do things like that and i have come back and killed some settlements, but its not like fallout 3 where i could for example choose(key word) to kill megaton and get a pent house for it. I liked how in fallout 3 the game rewarded my ruthless cut throat play style by making others talk about me differently, avoid me, or even approach me on a few occasions. in Fallout 4 either A: No cares how i got the job done or B: i get a slap on the wrist for not being a tool, and we go on like nothing happened. I guess i just miss being infamous.
It lets you be evil just fine, it just doesn't give you a score for it.
Back in Fallout 3 you had a system which determined your actions to be moral or immoral, which is ridiculous because we need to determine out OWN morals.
NV had the worst karma system! You would get good karma for killing ghouls or Fiends that just happen to be in your way, and bad karma for stealing from Caesars Legion. It made no sense with what kind of character you were trying to play, and had practically no effect on gameplay either. If you're talking about the faction reputation system, that's arguably more correct, but NV really should have cut out karma.
The raiding farms reason is redundant. There is an option to *gasp* BUY the crops from the farmers for 1000 caps
You also threaten them with war
The ending I got I guess was the rare one. Honestly I had no idea what I was doing the whole time as it was my first playthrough, lol.
I sided with the Minutemen, joined the Brotherhood and did nothing for the railroad (totally not because I couldn't find their HQ...)
It was kinda funny after I finally found them. I got 2 conflicting dialogues. They told me to get out before I got shot but then they would tell me they owe me a beer.
I also neutered the Brotherhood by taking the Minutemen on the Institute raid and not doing any food collection for them.
They're a little pissed with my character but they just mope around a bit and not threaten to shoot me then buy me a beer, lol.
Elder Maxton has nothing to say to me. But the merchant on board that sends you on food runs did give me a free bottle of whiskey and said he thought it was smart how I didn't risk Brotherhood lives on the raid. It was cool to get some recognition for my choices and not just idle moping knights and an elder that just says "we'll talk later". Also I was kinda a dick to the old merchant on the airship. My character doesn't use booze. Only chems. So once he gave me the whiskey I turned around and sold it right back to him.
Also gave Virgil his cure.
One small faction i have never ran into though is the Atom Cats. I didn't even know they existed until i saw Oxhorns video on them. Also how I found out about the Brotherhood forcing settlements to give them supplies. Their not quite raiders. More like the mafia forcing them to pay "protection" that they will never actually recieve
This is a VERY long-winded comment but that's my Fallout endgame.
I know this is an older video but hey it's still fun to comment.
rare ending is siding with the railroad without blowing up the BoS because it requires you to do certain quests in a certain order. Siding with the minutemen and deciding who to kill is easy
Same only the institute died even the raiders from nuka world were happy with me
u owe me I got this ending to it’s actually kinda hard to get
Man, this comment perfectly describes my first play through. It's almost creepy.
Hunter Kiddo. You can side with railroad and not blow up BOS? How you do that
I blew up the Prydwen. It was hard bc I couldn't save the kids, but ultimately it was better than letting the BoS go free to do as they pleased. If I could have saved the squires, I would've had Alli, my Sole Survivor, throw them over her shoulder and book it out of the Prydwen and adopted them all. Edit: I wrote have and not save lmao
By bringing the Squires into a war zone on a warship Elder Maxson has made them into child combatants. Though the ROEs (Rules of Engagement) of the militaries of civilised countries prohibit the deliberate targeting of civilian children, in the case of child combatants they have to be regarded as basically the same as adult combatants. The fault in this case, and the "warcrime", as some people are calling it, is that of Elder Maxson by making them child soldiers.
N O'Toole alot of those kids could have been with their parents who would've been the first troops to make the Commonwealth their base which means that their parents may never be able to go back to the Capital Wasteland. If this the case then the Prydwyn is the safest place for them since the rest of the Commonwealth is to dangerous.
SAPWharton; The Prydwen is not the USS Enterprise from ST:TNG with the crew's families living on board. I see no evidence, even in the layout of the living areas, that couples or families live on the Prydwen, it is a warship not a cruise ship. The only reason the Squires are there is stated by Paladin Danse, and highlighted in this video, that Elder Maxson believes "they need to train under fire" not to be there with their families. There is no question here that Maxson has made the Squires child soldiers. What should have happened is that Maxson should have left them in the safety of "The Citadel" back in the Capital Wasteland.
N O'Toole I was thinking more of single parents that had their kid go with them.
Technically speaking it's not a war zone. The whole waste is fucked up. The D.C. Wasteland is worse than the commonwealth.
What ROE? In the context of the Fallout universe, those rules of war are not really applicable bec. the world ended. No governing body of nations to enforce those rules.
When I played with the Brotherhood, I was able to issue an evacuation order in the Institute.
yeah, and the brotherhood specifically gives orders not to kill any non violent scientists and leads them to safety. The idea that they don't care for human life is a bit ridiculous.
Anyone else think it would be a cool idea if there were outcasts like in 3, but they were the opposite and agreed more with the Lyons view?
I actually got the rare minutemen ending without even realising I was solely focused of playing for the minutemen I just let the railroad and brotherhood be
Was I the only one who read the title as "Is it moral to kill child squirrels"
I personally don't think the brotherhood is evil, they are one of the most realistic factions in the entire game, they realize that if they don't fight they will be killed. I was brotherhood and evacuated the institute civilians, killed all the machines inside and then was done, I had a good standing with the Minutemen at this point too, and with both factions I destroyed the largest threat to the commonwealth, the institute
zombieLISKlizard Fuck The Toasters...
Enclave Soldier just make sure it's not plugged in.
Heartburn52 Wrong Use Of The Same Word Boi...
This is more dark when you remember that squire is the lowest rank of the combat side of the brotherhood. Why didn't they leave the kids in the capitol wasteland in established bunkers? If they didn't leave anyone behind then the mismanagement of the brotherhood after Lyons is worse then we thought. And the rank implies child soldiers...
Well you know what they say "War … War never changes."
The brother Hood in fallout 3 had the right kind but not the fallout 4 version the brother hood in 3 took care of each other and wanted what's best for everyone
They were also on the verge of collapse... Lyons brotherhoods time was limited... Very limited
Agreed. Lyons Brotherhood had the outcasts, they were outnumbered in the wasteland, they had just fought the enclave, and sure they got a lot more love from the wasteland then any other brotherhood chapter, especially with the giving out pure water part, they weren't doing what's right(by the brotherhood's standards) so not only were there soldiers leaving and rebelling there was the fact that they were just low in numbers and liberty prime, Rest in peace, had been blown the hell up. Basically, everything was against that chapter and the only thing keeping it together was the lone wanderer if you played him as I did and became the messiah of the wasteland and was as nice as possible, he Lyons family, and doctor Li and your dad. The Lyon's died, the lone wanderer went... well wandering, and doctor li didn't like the brotherhood in the first place after they made her work on Liberty prime. Sorry this was so long but to those who read it thank you so very much and I hope you have a good day.
Tenum- Lun Maxson is a good leader. This is how the BoS actually need to be. He cares for his own. Lyons cared for both but mainly the outsiders more than his own. This is what lead the BoS under Lyons leadership to almost collapse.
Maxson has the right balance, but his view is too narrow-minded and too focused. He borders on becoming a tyrant. He also sees things only in black and white. A kind of leader that is good in war, but extremely terrible for peace. I really think that the prydwen should leave and move away as soon as the Institute is destroyed. They have no more reason to stay there besides carrying on their overzealous crusader to destroy stuffs they assumed to be evil. Tbh, he may have well just outlawed all machines, destroy all robots. If their goal is to reclaim technology, then that's what they should have done, reclaim, not destroy. If synths, like Danse should be so much as to viewed as "tools, machines" then they should consider converting these tools to the benifits of the BOS, turn them into soldiers so that actual human will not die.
Peerawat Nonthaphodej Synths are technology gone too far, and the BoS doesnt want to use their enemies against their enemies. Would it not be hypocritical of them if they openly hated synths and then used them in war? 90% of people would call them out on it
minutemen end all the way keep both groups of kids safe. and in future add institute survive to the minuteman racks and then us diplomatic ways to deal with brotherhood of steel and allie yours self with railroad. stabilise the common wealth.
Too bad there isn't a quest for the Minutemen that involves you infiltrating the Prydwen and breaking out all the squires and anyone who may want to leave the Brotherhood. I think Scribe Haylen and/or Paladin Brandis would be perfect for acting as an insider to help you considering both end up questioning themselves being part of the Brotherhood of Steel.
" THIS IS FOR SKYRIM"
*Prydwen crashes into the airport*
Oh, yeah I also saw the childr- OXHORN, BRO, YOU HAVE THE BASH MOD FOR THE MINIGUN, WHY ARE NOT BASHING? FORGET THE CHILDREN THINK ABOUT THE POTENTIAL LOST WITH THAT MINIGUN SETUP! I RATE THIS BarbedWire/Tribarrel (Barbed Wire out of Tribarrel) -- Would NOT children again.
Been watching a bunch of your different fallout lore videos this last week. I really enjoy your philosophical talk about what is moral and why? Great work, friend!
I just started playing Fallout 4 last week, and I sided with the Brotherhood of Steel. In my brain when I went to destroy the Institute my morality went, “hang on, there’s civilians and they need to be protected because war crimes”. I issued the evacuation order as a BOS Knight. Yeee
>crazy bloody carnage happening on screen
>ox talking on philosophical topics in a chill toned down voice
Gotta love Oxhorn
He always has been like that! Showing us the glowing sea, gets jumped by deathclaws, keeps talking about the lore!
In the end they are still children they don't kill people there basically innocents.
Elder Maxson Ad Victoriam elder
Elder Maxson I'd follow you to the gates of hell if you asked me to.
Ad Victoriam
Well said elder Ad Victoriam!
Well said, Elder. Ad victoriam!
If they run they're brotherhood. If they stand still they're well disciplined brotherhood. Ain't war hell!
MyHotdogWeiner god I love this comment. And that movie
MyHotdogWeiner nigga the fuck is your profile pic
MyHotdogWeiner nice full metal jacket reference
MyHotdogWeiner
If think your talking about minutemen there
I talked to one of the Prydwen squires the other day after Blind Betrayal, and you know what he said to me? "I'm glad Paladin Danse is dead, one less filthy synth to deal with!" man I was this close to throwing hands with a 10-year old
its nice how this game evolved to politics instead of a little moral testing and lots of super mtant killing and settlements that need your help, here, let me mark it on your map.
Damn you!
Damn, you got me 😫
GOD I need a nuka cola quantum ...lol
I think you're not giving the children of the Fallout universe enough credit. Macready was governor and sniper of Lamplight at 10. Vault-tec started kids in theory career tracks at 10. They may be being molded into who they will become but these 10 year olds are badasses. Often more intelligent and caring than any of the adults in the wasteland.
8:35 you gun down a scientist running for their life. What the fuck?
It's, imo, a bit hypocritical to present the Minutemen ending as perfectly good and moral ending. In the end, you will kill the Institute, destroy their base and probably a lot of innocents who weren't responsible for the evil things the leadership did will die, let's be real even if you trigger the alarm there's no way all the people, probably hundreds, will escape through the single teleporter. Also there was no attempts of negotiating peace, even though the Sole Survivor is in the perfect position to do so as the son of the current leader and the future leader himself, still not even an attempt to try and make them stop their evil actions through diplomacy
It's called roleplaying. I think he made it pretty clear that he wouldn't murder her.
The Listener ,
I like to think you jump off the prydwin with power armor that has a jetpack with the kids
I think it was intended to have them there. If you think about it Fallout 4 doesn't have -a lot- of children in it, the two places you blow up both have in my opinion have the most kids inside them and because of this lets you see the true morality of each faction. For instance, both the institute and the Brotherhood don't have second thoughts about killing children, they just want to win whatever the cost.
The railroad doesn't care either way as they just want the synths to be free, but won't hunt down the people who escaped because they completed that goal with the destruction of the main HQ of the Institute. And with the Brotherhood trying to convince the kids to leave would probably result in them warning the adults, and even if you kill all the members present, they won't want to listen to you because you just murdered everyone they know.
The Minutemen are the -only- faction that doesn't put its ambitions above of innocent lives, and I think that's the dev's way of saying "Each faction has its pro's and con's but they, aside from the Minutemen, are all going to put their beliefs and goals before innocent bystanders ."
if anything this just goes to show you how really bad Fallout 4 was written yes the Brotherhood are fanatical but they don't go so far as to kill innocent children to achieve their goals.
But they do. The video even mentions the children in the Institute by name. And how taking the BoS route doesn't even tell you about the evacuation signal so there's no chance they could survive
Andrew Tyrell yeah if you assume everyone died even if you triggered the evacuation notice but there's no proof of that either it's open to interpretation thus a plot hole emerges and let's not forget fallouts never been a realistic game series so by video game logic they could have got away in time.
+ Andrew Tyrell You can still activate the evacuation signal if you side with the BoS; I easily found the option on Father's terminal. And if you evacuate people, there's a MM quest to relocate them to a new settlement (unless you settled all the vanilla areas).
My point was not that you couldn't, but that the brotherhood and Maxon don't care. And I didn't play much after my MM run ended. I didn't realize there was a quest to resettle the Institute survivors. Just goes to show they're the best. " The Institute must be stopped. Be sure to signal an evacuation. Now let's find them somewhere new to live."
Stop lying, they dont even kill the scientists in the nuclear option.
I actually got that rare Minutemen ending in my first playthrough.
Jarrod B same here
Jarrod B same
Good job! :D
im in my second, trying the railroad roleplay but failed so i play the rare mntmn
I probably would have, but I murdered the BOS officer in that bunker for his amazing black BOS uniform.
Apparently murder for fashion is a no-no.
My first playthrough I thought Tom sounded the alarm and didn't do it myself...I am a mass murderer
Long late to this party but it sadend me when I learned the progression the Lyons Brotherhood had made was lost, they genuinely seemed to have found a productive way to reach their Goals rather than treat those around them as just an obstacle to deal with, Maxson was even effectively raised by Elder Lyons and Sarah but still went back to the overzealousness of the Brotherhood of Old.
The way I see it is if the Prydwen is left theres a chance they may learn, the Synths while created are not the enemy and let them live in peace as they had the Ghouls in the Museum of History in DC and only through peace with settlements can they truley progress.
The realities of war is that any side on the cusp of winning, never thinks about the things that way. Children will die in wars. Seriously, what is this outrage about children dying in war, but not against war itself, or the general loss of life? If you ask me, any loss of life makes a war abhorrent. Children are not in any way more "sacred" or "shocking"... the blind spot for children is beyond me. As for this case specifically, those squires are "child combatants"... they're child soldiers. They're hardly civilians. I also think the argument of "they don't know what they're saying" is part true, but also a part fallacy. Children who grow up steeped in some ideology, especially when it is fundamentalist, and so deep, don't always come to see the world through a lens that allows them to see that the way they grew up may not be the right way. A whole bunch never question a single thing they grew up with, which is how extremism propagates. They're just as likely to take it up again, especially when the formative experience is "some dude waltzed in here and ended my whole world as I knew it up to the point". Point I'm making is that distinguishing them is self-blinding, and at worst, ultimately self-defeating. Murder of civilians in general is to be abhorrent, not just kiddies, kiddies are not sacred tabula rasas that will magically germinate in pure soil once the bad influence around them is gone. I personally do not distinguish or afford any "special recognition" for children. If they be civilians, they be protected. If they be enemy combatants... all bets are off.
My playable children mod, makes kids mortal, I didn't know that!
Yeah...it does.. if you make the character a playable child in F04 it makes children vulnerable.
Bakuya99 It also makes it possible the settles kids to wear all kinds of clothes :3
That it does
"All kinds of clothes" eh?
Lord Vader Yup
When i got to the footage of blowing up the Institute was shown, thunder when off in distance.
I saved Danse in Blind Betrayal, taking him on as a follower a little later on. I did the minuteman ending while keeping at peace with the Railroad and BoS (ie not speaking with Kells after Blind Betrayal). Couple of interesting things after that - I took on a 'escort a child scribe' mission from Kells a little later (leaving Danse back at Sanctuary Hills of course while visiting the Prydwen), but made the mistake of going back to Sanctuary Hills along with the child scribe - as soon as spawning in at Sanctuary, Danse went feral on the kid (didn't wait to see if Danse killed him or not (or even could) as reloaded and avoided Sanctuary while the kid was in tow).
Then got one of the Variable Removal quests from P.A.M at the Railroad to destroy a Brotherhood patrol (ok, no kids involved, but still confusing given I'm friends with both the Railroad and BOS). So I went ahead and destroyed the BoS patrol, but it didn't make me an enemy of the BoS !? (even going back and selling all the loot to Teagan on the Prydwen) - didn't take Danse with me to take out the BoS patrol so even got to chat with them a bit before killing them all - weird.
What if the institute children are synths?
Fat fousey @oxhorn
Fat fousey _ Institute children are real. We know there was only one Synth child.
Aeschylus Shepherd but them children could be synths but since they are immortal we can't check
Fat fousey _ get a mod that sets them a non-essential, then shoot them. I think there's a command for it too.
The entire Institute was against the idea of making a synth child. They gave into one experiment because Father demanded it and that's it from what we can gather. There would've been evidence the other children were synths. I wouldn't mind having entire synth family then putting my brain into a jar... oh wait....
Brotherhood of steel for life
[preston disliked that]
The commonwealth Minutemen lmao
Knowing Bethesda the children could probably fly away just before it explodes lol
Honestly, I'm not convinced the Brotherhood even let them out when you sound the Alarm. Maxon says it himself: the Brotherhood is there to destroy the synths and everyone responsible for their creation. And Maxon just does not seem the type to care that destroying the Institute is enough to stop it. He sees the type to not consider the "war" complete until every member of the Institute is dead.
There blood is on your hands your the one who flip the switch. In that case the blood of Institute citizens are on Fathers hands, the death of Glory is on Desdemona hands, the death of dead settlers are on the sole survivor heads. What ever you say that helps you sleep at night I guess. Who ever pulled the trigger is the one to blame.
You introduce just enough philosophy with your opinions to make me proud of your arguments.
Philosophy major love!
I look at it this way.
The squires will likely grow up with the BoS as the main influence of their lives. Considering how Maxson turned out and is the leading role model for them, I do not like the idea of more of him coming into the Commonwealth.
I view the kids from the Institute more worthwhile saving for their intelligence and potential futures as doctors and scientists.
“Wait… there’s an alarm?! So your telling I killed all those people, just because I didn’t know there was an alarm?”
Ox can you do the story of Diamond City, including the battle between supermutants and the minutemen
Oxhorn, man, you really have convinced me that siding with the minutemen is the best moral decision for a good character
Well obviously, there is literally not one bad karma thing about them when you meet them in-game, which is bad writing of a faction in my opinion, there is the corruption and leadership problems but none of this is a thing anymore, Preston is made to be the golden saint of the world and he is what most people will think of when you talk about the minutemen leadership. I of course roleplay this not being the case in my minutemen playthrough, I roleplay giving generals power-hungry traits and stuff like that, i roleplay my minutemen disliking the railroad a lot even though technically speaking in my playthrough we were allies. I did this because there is none of this in the game itself. I really dislike the way Bethesda wrote the factions specifically the minutemen but its a good game, i had great amounts of fun roleplaying in the game so it does live up to its name, a RPG, roleplaying game.
The Minutemen are too short-sighted for me to like them. They got fucked at Quincy because they got too large and unwieldy to notice that they'd been betrayed. If the Minutemen couldn't handle the Gunners, how would they react if the freaking Enclave ever rolls back in?
the minutemen was the best faction from the start!
@@tater8251 you missed the main faction flaw for the minutemen they think for the short terms goals and is completely impossible for them to stay as the leading faction as when the lone wanderer dies it’s basically crippled and we know huge threats like the ncr and the legion are out in the west and eventually are gonna meet the east and the minutemen won’t be able to stop these factions this is they bos is most likely the cannon ending (plus from fallout 76 we also now know that the Enclave isn’t dead)
For some reason it didn’t bother me too much to blow up Prydwen with kids on board, probably because I kinda forgot about them and didn’t notice them running around as the fight was heavy.
But when I had to kill Haylen at Cambridge Police Station I just dropped my mouse and started crying and let my NPCs kill her instead. That was TOO MUCH to handle after everything she’s done for Danse, whom I love dearly. 💔
The thing I hated the most about the BoS ending is that even if the scientists were running away, they just went out of their way to run over and murder them. I don't remember if the RR and Minuteman endings are the same way, but that is the only one that I remember.
the squires' blood is not only on Maxon's hands but also the players. it is so easy to blame other for our own misdeed.
니악 so the railroad is completely innocent by blowing up the prydwen with children?
Nope. Child soldiers are considered to be legitimate targets under the rules of war, treated no different than adult soldiers. That's why it's considered such a monstrous thing to use child soldiers.
By putting children on the Prydwyn, Maxson made them into child soldirs, and under the rules of war, responsibility for their deaths lies entirely in the hands of the people who made them into soldiers in the first place. Maxson and Maxson alone, in deciding to place children on the Prydwyn, is entirely responsible for their deaths.
ObsdnBlck
Exept their not child soilders, they don't fight
"I wish I had a gun right now!"
They clearly know how to use weapons and the only reason they don't have them is because killing children outright would look bad on them.
If beth had the stomach for it they would have given the child soldiers their guns and allowed them to be killed directly.
Also the way beth did it we don't actually know what happened to them when everything was happening, for all we know the little soldiers could have escaped.
Beth made it ambiguous.
I really wish there had been an option to compel the Brotherhood to retreat after the destruction of the institute. I did indeed manage to get the Minutemen ending where as few people die as possible on all sides, but what was deeply dissatisfying about it was how Elder Maxim just didn't get why that was a good idea. Proctor Quinlan gets it, but Elder Maxim just totally misses the point that we saved many lives, removed the tactical threat of the institute, and allowed as many people to survive as possible. I also wish Virgil didn't get mad at you when you blow up the institute, but issued the evac order. I think that the only really moral option is to do the minuteman ending where everyone gets along well, because there is no need for the Brotherhood or the Railroad to die, and I honestly wish that the institute could've been persuaded to coexist with the other factions and just stop using gen-3 synths. *sighs* I only blew up the prydwen once, because I felt so bad after doing it because of the progress lost technologically, and because of the lives lost needlessly.
For the institute i just need them to leave people alone. I mean we can have a debate on if synth 3s are people or equipment. Perhpas we can come to common ground (program newer ones differently perhaps). Where i absolutely cannot come to common ground is kidnapping people like Hancocks brother, replacing them and presumably murdering them after interrogating them.
In my opinion the brotherhood is not evil but it’s morals are sometimes off but at other times they protect the commonwealth
5:27 Why is it when Preston is angry or shaken. He's alot more likeable. 😂
another settlement needs your help i'll mark its location on your map
can you make a video why the railroad are evil because they're more evil if you think about it
I think they are the worst faction, at least the Institute recognizes that a Toaster is a Toaster.... it is not equal to a human. and honestly, outside of a few super mutants (On the East Coast that is) have I ever been given a reason not to kill all Super Mutants, they all want to kill me.
DravenWolfe but if the the toaster can think and feel and want like a human, even if it's been programmed to, it's still human. If we wanna be technical, the human brain is one complex computer
Dude a Synth can feel pain and has emotions plus the gen 3's are made from human DNA so there basically cyborg clones making them alive. I think we should stop the institute from making synths but we shouldn't just execute the ones who didn't ask to be made. There just as sentient as a human being. Plus in my play through like 4 of my companions are synths.
I like the Railroad, I see Syths and that Psychotic Toaster from Big MT as human...
I meant that Crazy Killer Talking Toaster from New Vegas!
Hey, I mean it wasn’t my fault Captain kells assigned me to help them out and he still pays me anyways
Well you know what they say:
"I don't want to set the world on fire; I just want to start, a flame in your heart."
62 of the 97 passengers on the hindenburg lived, so provided they weren't killed in the explosions that you set off they had around a 60 percent chance of making it out.
"Good" And "Evil" Is subjective. Just because you think that something is evil does not mean that they are evil and everyone who disagrees with you is also evil.
THE ZOMBIE TRAINER FANBOIIII
I believe the BoS is evil.
The BoS is so focused in their belief that "all synths are human" that everyone on the Prydwen agree to exexute Dance because he's a synth. Even if he has served years with the Brotherhood, honorably, Maxson executes him without thought. Their belief is evil in itself, that every synth should be destroyed without thinking about it, and they're so stuck up in their belief that they'll kill a loyal BoS soldier because he's a synth. It's like being sexist, having a friendly, loyal, honest friend on the internet then find out that she's actually female. What would you do? Belittle her to the point where she gets depressed or continue being friendly to her? Personality matters, not surface identification
Of course it's subjective. Thats why Oxhorn made a video discussing his opinion on the matter.
The only faction that is truly "good", is the Minutemen.
agreed.
+ Anon Nymous They're ill-defined in comparison to the other factions, but I wouldn't say they're unambiguously good considering that they can easily fall apart again (and Deacon cautions you about such a thing as well) and the membership is comprised of the everyday people of the Commonwealth who are quite flawed (such as in their views of ghouls, for example).
@Maximo: Considering the player roleplays a good person, the Minutemen becomes a strong and good faction with the Sole Survivor's leadership, regardless of any flawed views of settlers. They become almost as vulnerable as the BoS (or any other faction, like the Institute and the Railroad) in the aspect that changing the leader, can radically change their ways/fate in less than a decade.
It might be "good" but it will fall apart, just like Caesar's Legion it is a cult of personallity, and when the player charcater dies, it will all fall apart.
The Minutemen have been rebuilt and strengthened by the end of the story, with The Castle retaken, veterans regrouped, communication reestabilished, guarded outposts and highly fortified settlements across the Commonwealth. They've existed for more than 100 years and now they're in a much better shape than ever. They can defeat the Institute and a whole division of the BoS (including its leader) alone. And I'm sure the Sole Survivor is able to create conditions to the rise of possible successors and be replaced when he dies. It's not a cult, given that no one in the MM, apart from Preston, idolizes the SS.
The almost total collapse state of the Minutemen in the beginning of the game happened very slowy. 48 years after losing the Castle and 6 years after losing the last general. And even in a very bad condition, they could have saved Quincy if not for Clint's betrayal.
The rare minute men ending is the one I got