For anyone who wants to race affordably but wants to go fast and have all the technical aspects of setting up a chassis and tinkering with the setup while having lots of competition, lots of races and far less travel with speeds that are quicker acceleration, better handling, and near the same top speeds 125 or 175cc shifter kart racing is the better choice. They are more challenging to drive, a lot more physical, much easier to maintain, no shortage of racers at almost any event and can race locally, regionally, nationally or internationally. It is also better for anyone with aspirations of becoming a pro driver simply because of the international factor, if you are talented and can race against the world's best. In England and Europe, the 250 super kart class race on all the major tracks and achieve speeds over 140mph. This class is probably fun for those who want to just be a weekend occasional racer and work your way up into F1000, Atlantic etc.
I appreciate this comment and certainly do have a love for karts, but at the same time I have to say I disagree. Karts are go karts. This, on the other hand is a real, full-size race car. There is a significant difference in so many ways between this and racing karts.
Yeah but then you're driving a gokart. I know most pro drivers get started on them but the suspension really forces you to drive a very specific kind of way. I wouldn't consider them a substitute for a race car with proper suspension.
Great recap F5,Dino and thanks for mentioning Dave Rose. We raced at Summit Point 40 years ago (when NJMP was still a rumor). He was a great guy who wrung everything out of his Opel Manta and would offer you any help needed. South Jersey Region people were always friendly and encouraging. Enjoy F5 as the sweet spot of speed and low costs and a means to gain valuable seat time. Best of luck!
Dino, Thank you so much for this video and am looking forward to future videos. As an old geezer who has been messing with these cars since 1982 and, as a thank you as well, I hope that I can help you - fit: move the pedals forward (remember to bend your knees), the steering wheel can be moved up and rearward (elbows bent), maybe go to a smaller wheel; to go faster - change to chain drive (cog belt's tightness drags the bearings). Let me know if I can help. Jim
My Dad and I raced 440's in the 80's/early 90's up and down the E coast. My Dad then moved to racing MGB's at Sebring. He is 83 now and I am 57. I do sim racing now, which is surprisingly realistic.
We raced F440's some many years ago as Mini Indy's . Great fun. The suspension on the F500's is quite a bit more sophisticated then that of the old F440's which were basically Go-Karts with frame jacking to load corners for 'round de round' tracks where we also used different tire sizes at the same time. Regarding tires. We used a chemical application to soften tires before a race. I can't remember if anyone ever bought new tires except for one new guy who thought it would give him an advantage, it didn't or it didn't help his driving. One of the group bought a F-Ford. Great car, but expensive upfront and down the track. After a couple of seasons it hit the road. I would be interested in the F-600 or F-1000, but at my advance age, I just better stick with clipping the apexes with my Miata on track days. By the way...nice car. Thanks for the post. Brought back some fun memories.
The Formula 500 is a great way for a racer if he doesn't have a support group. Some guys are lucky and have 5 or 6 people crewing, but others are often have themselves or maybe one friend. With these. you can set everything up, and be pretty good for the weekend. They fit like a glove, or should, and become an extension of your body. They will respond like a part of your body. Want to go left, you've already gone. Stop? Keep your mouth closed so you don't lose your teeth. I ran a Dolphin my last season of racing, and at Sebring on the club course, I was running about mid pack of the S2000 cars. At the time, the Sidewinder was about the only thing faster in F500, and that was because their brakes were almost as big in diameter as their tires. Even then, if the Sidewinder driver made any mistake, he lost. They are essentially a big go kart with a lot more power. They can also beat you up like a go kart on a rough track. Like most things, go for all that you can afford. Don't cheap out just because one price is much lower. While Zink had great success with their F440 years ago, they are slow compared to the 500 Rotax. The 600 may be worth it, but if you are on a tight course, you might find shifting to be distracting, especially if you autocross it. It depends on your course. Go visit the tracks you plan to run, watch and see what runs well, and then talk to some of the racers to get their opinions. Like all race cars, you have the extra stuff you need to race. this includes a way to get it and you to the track plus all your supplies. However, you are dealing with an 800 lb. car, so a simply open single axle trailer will handle it and with a couple of baskets or a plastic tool box, you can put your other stuff on the trailer. Considering the size, you might fit one in the bed of a long bed pickup, so you could pass on the trailer. But a trailer this small could be towed by almost any kind of car, so you don't need the 10 mpg duallie like with a big enclosed trailer and larger race car. Tow it with your Mustang or Corvette.
My dad always said these were glorified go karts they don’t have suspension I mean it’s still racing. It’s still fun and I’m sure having no suspension makes it cheaper, but they are just glorified go karts my father was right.
I remember watching F500 at Road America 30 years ago I forgot all about it. BTW, a 2 stroke snowmobile engine is a monster. My Arctic Cat 800 makes 145 HP
Great video, thanks for posting it. I just bought an older formula 500 "project". Came with a cbr 600rr motor. Any recomendation on where to find parts for these cars? I need drive belts, sprockets, fuel cell, additional bushings to raise the ride height, etc. Im planning to autocross the car.
wish it had more entries, in our region formula vee is a lot more popular, but similar concept. my spec racer ford used to be this way but the cost has gone up dramatically in the few years with the new sequential and softer compound for the hoosiers
Only from watching videos, but the Legends spec (5/8 scale 1934 ford body with motorcycle engine) is pretty inexpensive, but most important the cars are so overpowered and all must run the same 'street' tires, so the racing is exciting with lead changes all the time as cars loose traction trying to go too fast. The real cheap racing is the endurance series like Champ or LuckyDog, but its not spec so more money or 'cheating' can make you faster, not just driver skill.
Small advice for the camera-man: There is no need to switch from the car or engine to the face of the owner permanently. People are interested in the details of the car!
My main problem with the F500/Formula Mazda/anything pre-carbon tub is safety. I've seen some gnarly wrecks in those tin cans. They're great fun from what I hear, but the thought of getting into an accident in one is terrifying.
Check to see if that foam insulation in your walls emits any hazardous gases. That insulation is typically encapsulated in drywall, tape and compound, primer and paint. Oh and, good luck with your racing.
Never heard of that before, but it looks like it's not likely a concern once it dries: www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/does-spray-foam-insulation-off-gas-poisonous-fumes
@@speedcircuit You also have to be concerned with the flammability of the material you used. A small fire in your garage could turn into a firebomb in a few seconds. Possibly before you could reach the exit and it would be unstoppable. Again, the specific foam you used is what you have to look into. I'm not saying yes or no. 40 years in all types of construction and a third-generation firefighter!
Look at the frontrunners and copy what they are doing on their cars which means that you need to race with them - this is how I learned back in the 1980's - another item - hollow splined axle when it comes time to replace the old axle.
Yeah, I see the fastest guys in the Majors Tour have better setups. The sport car nose, rear diffusers, etc. I wasn't aware that hollow splined axles were available. There are a host of improvements I can make to this car, but since I mostly run regionally, I figured I'd just maintain what I have for now. That being said, if something needs replacing, I'll upgrade it going forward. It's a shame I replaced the large rear cog when I first got the car since the teeth were worn and tapered, which would walk the belt off partially. Most importantly though, I hope this video raises awareness about how fast, fun, and cheap these cars are to get into. The numbers have been dwindling in this class for years, and I'd love to see more F5 cars running wheel to wheel in the SCCA.
Just came across this video and it helps me a ton! I've been planning on doing racing school to get my comp license but had no clue about scholarships! I looked online but couldn't find anything, does anyone know of where to apply? I live in SoCal if that helps
The first boat had a diesel boiler for the radiators?! Surely a water source heat pump would be the way to go 🤔 also we didn't get to see the batteries.
Dino, Thank You for the video. How tall are you? My son and I are looking at rehabbing an F% but we're struggling to find a chassis that will fit him at 6'4" 220.
I'm about 6' 185. You won't fit in a qre / kbs car without modification, however there are bigger chassis that he can probably fit into. Check out this Facebook group to see what's available: facebook.com/groups/360619197459057/?ref=share
Entry fees are about $500, $100 fuel, and beyond that it's just wear and tear. The more competitive guys will buy new rubber each weekend @$1000, but I don't bother.
@@zTheBigFishz Ah, ok - I thought it was a suggestion for me. Karts are great fun, but eventually most people want to step up to a car. Also, karts become more dangerous than cars at a certain speed.
For anyone who wants to race affordably but wants to go fast and have all the technical aspects of setting up a chassis and tinkering with the setup while having lots of competition, lots of races and far less travel with speeds that are quicker acceleration, better handling, and near the same top speeds 125 or 175cc shifter kart racing is the better choice. They are more challenging to drive, a lot more physical, much easier to maintain, no shortage of racers at almost any event and can race locally, regionally, nationally or internationally. It is also better for anyone with aspirations of becoming a pro driver simply because of the international factor, if you are talented and can race against the world's best. In England and Europe, the 250 super kart class race on all the major tracks and achieve speeds over 140mph. This class is probably fun for those who want to just be a weekend occasional racer and work your way up into F1000, Atlantic etc.
I appreciate this comment and certainly do have a love for karts, but at the same time I have to say I disagree. Karts are go karts. This, on the other hand is a real, full-size race car. There is a significant difference in so many ways between this and racing karts.
Yeah but then you're driving a gokart. I know most pro drivers get started on them but the suspension really forces you to drive a very specific kind of way. I wouldn't consider them a substitute for a race car with proper suspension.
Great recap F5,Dino and thanks for mentioning Dave Rose. We raced at Summit Point 40 years ago (when NJMP was still a rumor). He was a great guy who wrung everything out of his Opel Manta and would offer you any help needed. South Jersey Region people were always friendly and encouraging. Enjoy F5 as the sweet spot of speed and low costs and a means to gain valuable seat time. Best of luck!
Thank you! It's great to hear from someone who had the pleasure of racing with him.
My father and I drove 440's at Summit Point in the 80's. The camaraderie in the paddock back then was phenomenal.
Dino, Thank you so much for this video and am looking forward to future videos. As an old geezer who has been messing with these cars since 1982 and, as a thank you as well, I hope that I can help you - fit: move the pedals forward (remember to bend your knees), the steering wheel can be moved up and rearward (elbows bent), maybe go to a smaller wheel; to go faster - change to chain drive (cog belt's tightness drags the bearings). Let me know if I can help. Jim
I wasn't aware that the chain drives were faster. As for the pedals, I did move them up as much as possible.
My Dad and I raced 440's in the 80's/early 90's up and down the E coast. My Dad then moved to racing MGB's at Sebring. He is 83 now and I am 57. I do sim racing now, which is surprisingly realistic.
We raced F440's some many years ago as Mini Indy's . Great fun.
The suspension on the F500's is quite a bit more sophisticated then that of the old F440's which were basically Go-Karts with frame jacking to load corners for 'round de round' tracks where we also used different tire sizes at the same time.
Regarding tires. We used a chemical application to soften tires before a race. I can't remember if anyone ever bought new tires except for one new guy who thought it would give him an advantage, it didn't or it didn't help his driving.
One of the group bought a F-Ford. Great car, but expensive upfront and down the track. After a couple of seasons it hit the road.
I would be interested in the F-600 or F-1000, but at my advance age, I just better stick with clipping the apexes with my Miata on track days.
By the way...nice car.
Thanks for the post. Brought back some fun memories.
The Formula 500 is a great way for a racer if he doesn't have a support group. Some guys are lucky and have 5 or 6 people crewing, but others are often have themselves or maybe one friend. With these. you can set everything up, and be pretty good for the weekend. They fit like a glove, or should, and become an extension of your body. They will respond like a part of your body. Want to go left, you've already gone. Stop? Keep your mouth closed so you don't lose your teeth. I ran a Dolphin my last season of racing, and at Sebring on the club course, I was running about mid pack of the S2000 cars. At the time, the Sidewinder was about the only thing faster in F500, and that was because their brakes were almost as big in diameter as their tires. Even then, if the Sidewinder driver made any mistake, he lost. They are essentially a big go kart with a lot more power. They can also beat you up like a go kart on a rough track.
Like most things, go for all that you can afford. Don't cheap out just because one price is much lower. While Zink had great success with their F440 years ago, they are slow compared to the 500 Rotax. The 600 may be worth it, but if you are on a tight course, you might find shifting to be distracting, especially if you autocross it. It depends on your course.
Go visit the tracks you plan to run, watch and see what runs well, and then talk to some of the racers to get their opinions.
Like all race cars, you have the extra stuff you need to race. this includes a way to get it and you to the track plus all your supplies. However, you are dealing with an 800 lb. car, so a simply open single axle trailer will handle it and with a couple of baskets or a plastic tool box, you can put your other stuff on the trailer. Considering the size, you might fit one in the bed of a long bed pickup, so you could pass on the trailer. But a trailer this small could be towed by almost any kind of car, so you don't need the 10 mpg duallie like with a big enclosed trailer and larger race car. Tow it with your Mustang or Corvette.
My Dad and I drove F440's in the SCCA during the 1980's. A lot of performance and fun for the money.
Man, I wish I had a family member who was into this stuff!
Well done Dino - You can't go faster for less money in any other class in SCCA.
My dad always said these were glorified go karts they don’t have suspension I mean it’s still racing. It’s still fun and I’m sure having no suspension makes it cheaper, but they are just glorified go karts my father was right.
@@blaumausfrau the closing 2 minutes of the video you can literally see all of the front suspension. what a knob
I guess you've never been around karting? I love karting.....this is far from a kart.
I remember watching F500 at Road America 30 years ago I forgot all about it. BTW, a 2 stroke snowmobile engine is a monster. My Arctic Cat 800 makes 145 HP
And the torque!
@@speedcircuit yes, huge torque. Mine is a 2007. Todays 800’s are making 160+ HP
I just snagged a Suzuki Bandit engine for my custom build but holy crap, a Snowmobile engine? That's some ingenuity there
Just imagine one of these things powered by a Quadzilla.
Great video, thanks for posting it. I just bought an older formula 500 "project". Came with a cbr 600rr motor. Any recomendation on where to find parts for these cars? I need drive belts, sprockets, fuel cell, additional bushings to raise the ride height, etc. Im planning to autocross the car.
@@PJVWS check the formula 600 group on Facebook
This car is no joke! Seen it firsthand!
wish it had more entries, in our region formula vee is a lot more popular, but similar concept.
my spec racer ford used to be this way but the cost has gone up dramatically in the few years with the new sequential and softer compound for the hoosiers
Great video! Thank you!
I’m looking to get into this class. Do you know of any cars with 4 strokes for sale in the Jersey area?
Only from watching videos, but the Legends spec (5/8 scale 1934 ford body with motorcycle engine) is pretty inexpensive, but most important the cars are so overpowered and all must run the same 'street' tires, so the racing is exciting with lead changes all the time as cars loose traction trying to go too fast. The real cheap racing is the endurance series like Champ or LuckyDog, but its not spec so more money or 'cheating' can make you faster, not just driver skill.
Thanks for the video!
Nice video I just joined SCCA
Awesome, what are you racing?
Small advice for the camera-man:
There is no need to switch from the car or engine to the face of the owner permanently.
People are interested in the details of the car!
Here is another tip that you may not know about - ceramic bearings - check it out.
My main problem with the F500/Formula Mazda/anything pre-carbon tub is safety. I've seen some gnarly wrecks in those tin cans. They're great fun from what I hear, but the thought of getting into an accident in one is terrifying.
@@thatautomotiveblog all open wheel is risky but I understand
Looks awesome!!
Check to see if that foam insulation in your walls emits any hazardous gases. That insulation is typically encapsulated in drywall, tape and compound, primer and paint. Oh and, good luck with your racing.
Never heard of that before, but it looks like it's not likely a concern once it dries:
www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/does-spray-foam-insulation-off-gas-poisonous-fumes
@@speedcircuit You also have to be concerned with the flammability of the material you used. A small fire in your garage could turn into a firebomb in a few seconds. Possibly before you could reach the exit and it would be unstoppable. Again, the specific foam you used is what you have to look into. I'm not saying yes or no. 40 years in all types of construction and a third-generation firefighter!
Look at the frontrunners and copy what they are doing on their cars which means that you need to race with them - this is how I learned back in the 1980's - another item - hollow splined axle when it comes time to replace the old axle.
Yeah, I see the fastest guys in the Majors Tour have better setups. The sport car nose, rear diffusers, etc. I wasn't aware that hollow splined axles were available. There are a host of improvements I can make to this car, but since I mostly run regionally, I figured I'd just maintain what I have for now. That being said, if something needs replacing, I'll upgrade it going forward. It's a shame I replaced the large rear cog when I first got the car since the teeth were worn and tapered, which would walk the belt off partially.
Most importantly though, I hope this video raises awareness about how fast, fun, and cheap these cars are to get into. The numbers have been dwindling in this class for years, and I'd love to see more F5 cars running wheel to wheel in the SCCA.
Have you ever thought about running SCCA solo one hill climb from where you live there’s Duryea in Redding PA and there’s a bunch up in northeast PA
I actually was supposed to run there once but I had to cancel for some reason
What size are the rims? And do you use skinny motorcycke brake rotors, os vented (car-like) brake rotors?
Just came across this video and it helps me a ton! I've been planning on doing racing school to get my comp license but had no clue about scholarships! I looked online but couldn't find anything, does anyone know of where to apply? I live in SoCal if that helps
First step would be to find a website for your local region
@@speedcircuit I tried but am struggling. Would it be directly through SCCA or it can be anything?
@@tylerbendis www.scca.com/membership_areas/248
Looks like it's basically a Malibu grand prix car turned up to 11
My son and I just bought an F500 car - haven't driven it yet but can't wait. Looking for a second car now so we can race each other...
What chassis do you have?
Wow dad n I purchased one to. It's almost ready.
I'm not fluent on these cars at all, but a guy local-ish to me has a slightly older one with spare parts + wheels/tires and a pile of extras for 5k$
What juice do you use for working out?
Lemonade and the tears of my enemies.
LMAO. @@speedcircuit
The first boat had a diesel boiler for the radiators?! Surely a water source heat pump would be the way to go 🤔 also we didn't get to see the batteries.
How would I go about buying an f5 car?
Check out racingjunk.com or the f600/f500 Facebook groups.
@@speedcircuitokay cool, thanks man 🤙
Never saw them before. Im from Pennsylvania. Id love to race them.
Where in PA are you?
I’m in Philly and have been contemplating these or a shifter kart as an entry into racing
Where do they run?
Any track the SCCA races at.
It looks like your legs would be totaled in any head on incident!?
@@JustinHatton-ru4gl they have crash boxes and they are pretty light
Who do I contact at SCCA to get started on this?
Which region are you in?
@@speedcircuit South East, in Florida
@@dwightk.schruteiii8454 Try this. If you offer them a basket of beets, they will probably prioritize you.
www.flscca.com/contact
@@speedcircuit wow thank you!
The F5 class car is something looking into then.
Where do I find these cars
Check out the f500 and f600 Facebook groups as well as racing junk
@@speedcircuit only group I can really find is formula bee sadly must be in part to where I’m located
Dino, Thank You for the video. How tall are you? My son and I are looking at rehabbing an F% but we're struggling to find a chassis that will fit him at 6'4" 220.
I'm about 6' 185. You won't fit in a qre / kbs car without modification, however there are bigger chassis that he can probably fit into. Check out this Facebook group to see what's available:
facebook.com/groups/360619197459057/?ref=share
After you get the car and everything you need to race. Expect to pay $2K to $3K per race weekend.
Entry fees are about $500, $100 fuel, and beyond that it's just wear and tear. The more competitive guys will buy new rubber each weekend @$1000, but I don't bother.
Sorry But Bill Huths Formula Pacific With Spencer Brockman And A 600 cc Yamaha, Would Really Smoke That Machine !
Yes, at three times the price.
More videos
You got it!
The cornering is out of control? I hope he means the opposite. Haha.
Anyone can afford? I have 5$ is that good enough?
It's basically a bigger gokart
Not really. It's tempting to make that comparison, but the characteristics are very different.
Formula Mazda baby.
racecar everyone can afford? With his budget maybe?
The cost of these cars are a small fraction of other cars.
Buy a kart.
No
@@speedcircuit advice for your subs...cheaper, easier to work on, and just as fun.
@@zTheBigFishz Ah, ok - I thought it was a suggestion for me. Karts are great fun, but eventually most people want to step up to a car. Also, karts become more dangerous than cars at a certain speed.
@@speedcircuit Well I wasn't clear in that original post. Any W2W racing is dangerous...eventually.
F600 is more fun
It's the same class
F600 cars look different. Ground effect body. And has manual gearbox.
@@marguskiis7711 they may. However, most 600s were 500s that were converted.
F1100
F4