One should use whichever one they can shoot accurately. However, my choice has always been the .45 ACP as my carry weapon. But I'll shoot a .22 short if that's all that's available. It beats throwing a rock.
After 45 years in the gun game, I'll add my two cents. Handguns regardless of caliber are very weak in comparison to Rifle cartridges. We all know that. So we have to look at a different Dynamic to get the most effective reaction to our tools that we use. I use as an example, Broadhead size in archery. The larger The Cutting surface of your Broadhead, allows you to do more damage to more tissue, so that there is more blood loss, and a quicker incapacitation of your game animal. So, a 45 will cause more tissue damage from an expanding bullet than a 9 millimeter will. Just physics. The more tissue damage, the more blood loss, the faster to unconsciousness and incapacity you could bring your attacker to. Add Crush Factor to the equation, or impact foot pounds, and the 45 is still better. My two cents
I once saw a bumper sticker: _R U looking for your cat? Try looking under my tires!_ and on another day: [small font] _Why are you so close? We don´t know each other!_
I'm sorry Pastor but I refuse to give up my caliber debates or my truck feuds. They define me. They demonstrate my character and let people know what kind of man I am. 'Murica!! Also, Pepsi sucks. Coke rules and if you use DeWalt tools you don't know how to build. There can be no Stihl versus Husqavarna debate because duh, Husqavarna is garbage. And since we're ending debates, Mary Anne obviously you nitwits, that Ginger was a tramp! Thank you for letting me get that off my chest. I feel better.
Awesome video, great points. I keep plenty of .22 and 7.62x39 not for defense. But for hunting! Which people tend to forget about. .22 for squirrel and smaller game. 7.62x39 for hog and larger running around in FL.
Once again, Pastor Joe, you're hitting the marks perfectly. Professionally speaking (Firefighter/Paramedic) the cavitation injuries from a 45 ACP is far superior to a 9mm. Big exit holes are one thing the cavitation injuries is a major issue, big holes mean faster bleed outs. All in all, does it really matter NO. I own many 45 pistols (I am a 45 caliber guy) I also own many 9mm. pistols. 9mm. ammo is much cheaper to shoot and to hoard. It is also easier to trade because it is common (not that 45 is uncommon) 9MM. pistols usually carry a much higher capacity. I love 1911 and own one, however, it only carries 8 rounds so if you should get involved in a situation where you might have multiple assailants and your carrying that low capacity firearm you are at a distinct disadvantage. The first requirement I have for any EDC handgun is capacity. I work with former spec ops guys who have extensive combat experience (they all carry 9mm.firearms) and they all believe this as well. Up until 3 years ago, I have always been a 45 ACP dude. Gunfighting is about angles and capacity. I have participated in many tactical competitions in the past and every time I used my 45 I lost my ass. I had to reload 2 to 3 times as opposed to the 9mm guys 1 re-load. My shot placements were above average, but the reloads killed me every time. So in my mind, I thought about how I could properly place this in a scenario in real life. Most gun owners have never shot their firearm in defense of their lives to begin with. When confronted with needing to use their firearms these scenarios go from nice to not so nice in a blink of an eye so most will miss their first to third shot at best. Now with an 8 shot firearm, you are now down to 5 rounds left. Let's say you have 2 assailants now reality gets scary. What about 3 assailants? How many people wish to carry 1 or even 2 mag carriers on their body daily? I will gander a guess and say not many. Between my profession and my competition experience, I have replaced my coveted 45 with a 9mm. I pray that most here today will not blow off what I say here. If you train regularly with the 45 and you regularly carry 3 mags and $$ is not a problem then carry on. If you do not do any of these then carry a high capacity firearm and the 9mm is a very good choice. I have 6 kids 5 are males. I am a firm believer in this country, and our right to carry a firearm. So years ago I made a commitment that all my children would get a pistol and an AR-15 from me as well as 1000 rounds for each firearm. I wish all parents would do this. All of my children know how to use these firearms as well. I know it has no bearing on this topic. In my opinion there really isn't a better way to get your kids to really think about why they are free and how to stay free than this. I would suggest every gun owner find a local gun association and enter pistol competitions with their EDC. Carry what you want its a free country for now, but make sure you know how to use it there isn't a better way to realize your setup's advantages and disadvantages before your life may depend on it. Good day and God bless everyone as well as this Republic. Ps. I agree there will be a lot of stuff lying around, free parts, firearms, ammo, and Levis albeit with a few holes in them:)
Yep... I live in Texas and every time one of the stores has a sale on "ammo" .. the; 'survivalist'- 'preppars' and or 'doomsday' crowd buys up all the bullets that day! .. Thank you for the good advice... You are the Voice of reason and Logic.
Japanese soldiers in World War II said the 9 mm was like getting hit with a dime 45 was like getting hit with a quarter. They hated that 1911 That’s pretty much all I need to know
I’ve always heard they NEEDED a bigger round that hit harder than a 9. 45 did the job. I gather the same info from history as you. I love all calibers, but you can’t argue with history and real world experiences.
PJF, One of my mentors told me something i still use today. " get the largest caliber you can shot accurately and afford to practice with" ,Jeff Cooper once said " if i thought there was going to be trouble i would've brought a rifle" good tactics and rounds down range, practice ,practice, practice!
Every prepper should be a student of arms to at least some degree. Knowing how to function check, load/unload and make safe at least the most popular guns out there is a vital skill.
Honestly i'm in the mind set of what ever. Shoot what you know and trust .(and are trained in) Make sure that you train, training is the real thing that is important.
The difference is the impact between semi truck and if subcompact. As a former LEO I carried a 45 APC AND I NEVER HAD TO FIRE MORE THAN TWO ROUNDS TO PUT A SUSPECT DOWN. But I've known many officers secured 9 mm that had to empty the magazine and reload to put a suspect down. You read them to me news we're police officers shot at suspect 30 times, it was because they were carrying 9 mm automatics.
Edward, do you remember the Dade County shoot out in the late 80s? The FBI had the same issues. It seems to have a lot to do with adrenalin. Good point.
@@albodakine1 a lot of the Dade county shootout had to do with FBI training and equipment, at the time. It hadn't been updated since J. Edgar Hoover's time. The FBI agents were armed with sidearms and shotguns against full auto weapons, either lightweight under the shirt vest or no vest, pretty much the same situation as the LA Wells Fargo bank robbery shootout. The criminals were better armed and better armored in both cases. Still I've double-tapped a suspect in military body armor what's 45 I'm putting down,... It didn't penetrate his fest and it didn't kill him,... But it did knocking down and crack four of his ribs, allowing me to disarm him,... Again it's was matter of impact.
I use to be strictly 45acp carried one on duty for 28 years. Now much older the weight is a factor. Down sized to 9mm plus p. Everyone should remember a pistol is only used until you can get your long gun.
My worst deployment in Afghanistan, I did not shoot more than 300 rounds out of my 240B for my one year period of time there. Mind you I was in an Infantry Unit in Helmand Province. As we called it “Hell Man” province. That fantasy of stockpiling thousands of rounds just for pure fighting during shtf is crazy!
1. IF in a SHTF situation you find yourself in a place where there are A LOT of dead people laying around, you're probably already infected with what ever killed them. 2. Rummaging around in those locations is a sure way to be 1 more dead person laying around. Best advice: Be on guard everyday, all day long and over night for the possible collapse of a civilization near you. Have more than 1 predetermined "Bug out" location and/or the ability to travel there with sufficient supplies, if possible ahead of the collapse/SHTF scenario. Good luck.
Going with what you know is a good idea. For handguns I've standardized on .45 acp. For long guns I've standardized on 7.62x51. Trained with both and uncomfortable with them. 23 years active Army probably has had some influence on my decisions.
A few points....30.06 or 308 is going to be more available than .340 Weatherbly....9mm is going to be more available than .40...going with govt rounds I feel is best...you can criticize me for this...but availability is key...
@@crowsbridge Maybe...I am still active duty Army, we still use the M-9 which is a 9mm, Beretta FS-92 for side arm...maybe SOCOM uses something different (they prolly let's those guys choose their own kits). I can't tell you about the rest of the govt, only the Army
I think ammo availability is a factor to a certain point. I mean choosing some obscure caliber over the more common ones doesn't make much sense for obvious reasons but at the same time if you buy any of the common stuff like 9mm, 45, 40, 357/38 and have a few hundred rounds set aside I really don't see you needing to do much scavenging. You'd have to pretty much go to war with nothing but a handgun to go through that much ammo.
For a defensive handgun caliber I prefer a 357 Mag revolver or a 357 SIG Semi Auto. That said I have carried both a 9mm & a 45 ACP working as an LEO & I had confidence in both. If I had to choose one handgun for TEOTWAWKI it would be the 357 Mag revolver. I was issued one when I first began working as an LEO back in the 1980's & still have it, a S&W M-65. I like the simplicity of a revolver & the versatility of a 357 Mag - 38 Special load. There is a big range of loads in between a hot 357 & light 38. A revolver round (no matter the shape or type) will function in all revolvers of the same caliber. The same cannot be said for a semi auto round in a pistol of the same caliber. They can be much more finicky. Also stockpile ammo not so much for SHTF, even though you should. But for when the government cuts off the supply for whatever reason. This way you can still train ...
A 9 mm and a 357 mag for hand gun. That's what I use, but you need to get something and practice 😉 Simple as that, can't get good if you don't practice.
What kind of practice? I hear that alot and it doesn't really make much sense to me. I've always lived in or near the woods, hunted all types of game and have done my fair share of trapping so that being said do I need to practice with my firearms that I've been shooting for 30+ years? All I hear on these videos is training and practice, maybe for some but not for all.
I agree, people tend to dream up these scenarios where they think one caliber is better based on ammo and parts availability. But in reality if you have a reliable handgun that you shoot well and a couple hundred rounds set aside for SHTF I just don't see how that wouldn't be adequate to get you though the situations where you'd need a handgun. If anything I'd buy more than 1 gun of the same caliber in case one does get damaged or lost you've got a back up. Ammo and parts would really be a non issue then.
I agree with 90+ percent with Pastor Joe. Just know your thing and learn it very well. As 50 plus old guy, I just work on knowing my platforms being good at them. You can always learn more which is good but you also learn to know you will have put the work into any platform or discipline. There are no shortcuts for this.
A practical no BS approach. I like it. That being said I do tend to keep way more than 200 rounds on hand for my side arm. But you're right if you are using that much back up gun ammo you need re evaluate your strategy
You deliver a good dose of reality, as usual. Thanks Pastor 👍. I have spent a fair amount of time with both, .45ACP & 9mm Luger. They are both great. They are as good as the shooter is. A .45, 230grn @ 900(+,-) fps commonly has, more or less, about 300ft,lbs of energy. A 9mm, 115grn @ 1,150 (+,-) fps has about 300ft,lbs of energy. Both calibers have roughly the same energy, give or take about 15ft,lbs or so. On the plus side for .45, it makes a larger wound channel. On the down side, it is harder for most beginners to achieve good accuracy with a .45, especially in a timed match or high stress situation.
Concerning fire fights, Col. Jeff Cooper (RIP) said, "A handgun is what you use to get to the rifle that you should have never left behind." Street Stoppers by Marshall/Sanow, 1996 edition, shows the 9mm 115 gr. with a 91% one shot stop compared to the 45 ACP 280gr with a 96%. These are shot hit in the torso or head. The 45 ACP has remained about the same with very little improvement, on the other hand, the 9mm 115 has made large improvements since the writing of the book.
During SHTF, because of lack of professional medical services, there will not be MUCH difference between 9mm and .45 ACP. Yes, size matters, so does weight in having to carry it around. Hell, if you practice and get good, bows and arrows work just fine. Carry what you are most competent with.
THANK YOU. I've had this argument I don't know how many times with people and said what you did "This isn't a first person shooter, I'm not going to run around and find boxes of ammo laying in the middle of the floor. If I find ammo, the gun that went with it is probably laying around somewhere close." I think it's more useful to have universal gear. I.e. buy magazine pouches that can use any pistol mag, or can use AR/AK/.308 magazines. Get an M12/UM84 holster that will hold damn near any handgun. Then you can use pretty much anything you pick up.
@@graynotescartridgebox I've seen what they can do on the street, it depends on where you are hit that determines if you are a corpse or still breathing.
Besides who said anything about .22 for self defense anyway I just stated what I did they're good for bartering, hunting, and can be bought in blocks saves your self defense ammo for just that and .22 can be used in self-defense to get to your go to weapon sheesh.
Finally, someone talking common sense (or is it still common?). I´d like to add a few things, although I´m not an expert (I can´t even legally touch a gun). 1) a 9mm hollow point can make just as big holes as a 45 FMJ. 2) To humans, it doesn´t matter much if you get shot by a 45 or a 44 magnum unless there are obstacles between you and the shooter. Otherwise, it´s just relevant for long-range shooting, or shooting animals in a different weight-class than us. After all, bullets tend to punch holes and carry on behind the target rather than dumping all their kinetic energy in their target. 3) regarding dumping energy: temporary cavities seem to be of no use unless we´re talking about 2200 FPS, or 660m/s and above projectiles as then the shockwaves in the tissue seem to actually rupture it. So, all in all, if something can go through bone and continue for another 10-30cm (4-12 In), then it will pretty much do its job on a human target. Unless you reach rifle velocities, more energy just means more recoil, blast and flash. Moreover, if something is 9mm or 12mm probably won´t make someone bleed out faster, unless the projectile deforms or fragments etc. Thus, to keep recoil down and capacity up, the smallest round that does the trick is probably good enough.
Hahaha! People have been video gaming too much. Every time someone is shot there won’t be a pile of ammunition in the treasure chest! Thank you for sharing your insight and knowledge Pastor Fox ! Left the city 2 years ago and haven’t looked back.
Just because SHTF, one must still train/practice to maintain proficiency... This is why I lay in ample supplies of ammo/reloading components for all the weapons I compete with...
The Webley is most often chambered in .41 caliber, but availability is very limited to specialty vendors or reloaders. Use whatever you have, and train to be able to shoot whatever is handy! In a perfect world, stick with common military and police calibers for best available ammo options, but mostly stock what you can shoot accurately, and practice with what is on hand!
Well the thing I like about the .45 ACP is that it earned its reputation as a FMJ. Due to its slower speed and mass even as a FMJ it actually creates enough resistance to do damage and transfer it's energy and in most cases not even exit the human body. A 9mm with it's smaller diameter/mass and higher speed will zip right through barely creating enough resistance to do damage and dump any of its energy. From a prepping standpoint if you run out of expensive hollow points or can't find them and have to use your cheaper range ammo the .45 is definitely the better option. People talk about stockpiling ammo but what kind are they stockpiling? Is it all expensive hollow points?
A group of guys I know at the range all have muzzle loader rifles and pistols. Their theory is that after the balloon goes up they can make their own black powder and cast their own lead balls, so ammunition will never be a problem. I told them that was too difficult since they had to locate lead and black powder chemicals, and so my EOT weapon was a bow and arrow. I'd just pull the arrows out of the dead people I shot and carry on. Another guy standing by said that bows and arrows were too complex, he used a hand made stone head axe. Said if it was good enough for cavemen, it was good enough for him.
There’s an excellent study on the effectiveness of various ammunition in self defense shootings. The conclusion is basically that everything that’s not a mouse caliber is roughly the same. Long guns are much better than handguns. 22 is not the best but it’s still very effective. Basically carry what you can shoot accurately.
The First step in surviving a gun fight is, Don't go looking for one. Second step, Be aware of your surroundings, so you can get that first shot off. Third Step. Go to step 1. As for foreign invaders, Nope, but okay, if that were to happen, then Use Your stuff to get their stuff, then use their stuff against them, they will have plenty of it. By the way I give those same kinds of people VikingPrepardness the same advice and then tell them to review the first three rules I gave. Like your videos.
Thank you so much for this. This is so refreshing. These prepper videos on UA-cam talking about why you need an Ar and a room full of ammo but do know the first thing about building a fire or producing water in a pinch. They create unnecessary need when all they should think of first is changing their damn lock as lol.
Reliable self defense ammo is a must... I personally carry Sig P365 with +P ammo (which is loaded 10% higher) made by by Liberty Civil Defense (now sold business to another manuf.) which is 50 grain, travels 2000 feet per second and pierces level 3 alpha body armour LEGALLY. I love it... very light weight and does what I need it to as a firearms trainer and NRA training counselor/CCH instructor.
@@jimcalifwin3760 That shouldn't have happened with that round count. (warranty???) Always good to have backup firearm too. ( I usually carry 2 at a time in training and everyday carry) Definitely light weight even with the extended mag *12+1) for such a small frame. I have become very accurate with it at 45 feet in a 3 inch group, while my cop neighbor insisted he compete with me at that range and his .45 got him a whopping 22 inch group. LOL.... he now shuts up! My husband and I also have a Standard Manufactuer DP-12. AWESOME for fun and home protection!! :)
People spend too much time worrying about convenient concerns. What they should be worrying about is what life will be like in a grid down situation. I've lived through Katrina and I can tell you that when the power goes out and people start getting hungry you see the ugly side of humanity. It's just easier for people to argue about calibers though.
I was always fond of the .45 acp be it 1911 or Glock 21. Then I found 10mm and 460 Rowland and those were interesting for a while. Now, after having spent 30 minutes training with a light weight J frame .357 magnum yesterday, I am more convinced then ever that 9mm is pretty ideal for SD. Its low recoil and general cheapness make it too easy to train with and that's probably important. It's also easier to conceal a Glock 19 than a Glock 21 or 20 and that's usually a plus. The extra ammo capacity is great if you absolutely have to put some lead in a head. I'm just getting a Glock 19 next week and that will be the end of the caliber drama for me. If I were in a EOWAWKI situation btw, I would absolutely bring my Ruger Mark IV tactical in .22LR along btw...with it's suppressor and railmaster laser of course. That's a problem solving combination right there. Because you probably aren't going to want to draw attention to yourself.
2 points I consider... 1) i dont always hit what i'm aiming at, especially if it or i am moving. More rounds is better. 2) If I'm home I'll have all the ammo I can use. If I'm forced to travel, lighter is better.
Going for the middle of the road compromise here... 10mm is my primary sidearm (Glock 29.) More oomph than a 9mm and terminal ballistics are better at distance than .45.
I believe one of the most important reasons to choose a caliber is so that you have the same caliber as the rest of the people in your MAG. That's mainly it for me
I am "The Annoyed Man" who asked Pastor Joe the original 9mm v .45 ACP question he’s addressing in this video. I *used* to carry .45 ACP, but not Glocks. I have five other .45s in three other platforms. The primary reason I started carrying Glock 9mm pistols is that that’s what my wife carries, and it was important to me that she be able to pick up my gun if something were to happen to me, be familiar with the manual of arms for it, and be comfortable with shooting it. She’s not really a gun person. She has dutifully learned to shoot; but for her, it’s a *duty* not a hobby. She owns and shoots a couple of Glock 9mms, but hates shooting .45 and has no interest in getting used to it. I’m just happy that she’s comfortable with 9mm and carries one every day. Similarly, she now owns an AR carbine and is comfortable with it, but she has steadfastly been unwilling to shoot a .308 rifle, or a shotgun any bigger or more powerful than her 20 gauge over and under skeet gun. I’m just happy that she’s accepted the AR rifle platform as hers. So in the end, it was just a lot easier for me to adapt myself to a 9mm Glock than it was to force her to adapt to a .45 in a different platform. I did mention Glock parts availability, but I’m a little geeky that way. I have a pretty decent supply of AR15 parts too....like spare LPKs; springs, pins & detents; flash hiders, crush washers, bolts, bolt rebuild kits, and that sort of thing. But one advantage of doing this is that we (my son and I) have become sort of the AR armorers for our circle. This is not just for me and *my* use. This is also part of the value that we can bring to a group. So since he, my wife, and I all carry Glock 9mms, I’m thinking of buying a few common Glock parts just to keep on the shelf for much the same reason that I have AR parts. And jus like with AR parts, I'm really thinking in terms of buying Glock parts *now* while they are cheap and available, more so than considering their availability when SHTF. I’ve also stockpiled ammo for the caliber weapons that I own, both for rifles, pistols, and shotguns. Yes, it’s better to have ALL of the ammo and parts things now while they’re easily available. I’m not the kind of guy who would do nothing until after SHTF.
Love your videos! You just have a way of making people think about the possible reality instead of their pinned up shoot 'em up fantasy! Thanks for that!!!
The best way to win a fire fight is not to get involved in one if at all possible. The odds of one being not injured or killed during a high rate of fire exchange is very unlikely. Stay the course and prep on!
45 acp has great hitting power. 9mm expanders pretty good too. I like my 9mm Beretta for the high capacity. You may be shooting over your shoulder running from trouble. 21 rnds might keep their heads down for you to get away or to your rifle. Odd ball rnd is 7.62 x 25 Tokarev. It can defeat light body armor.
The 12mm box wrench is underpowered, personally I believe a 7/8 in. Combination wrench is best, but in a pinch a 5/8 in. open end is still better than your 12mm. Box....of course nothing beats an 18 in. Adjustable Pipe wrench
I'm Canadian with a trapper's licence. We are allowed to carry ( have in possession ) a .22 long arm while trapping. Restricted from carrying anything bigger. So I will leave a .22 long arm visible for the CO to see and check.
I run a .45, I figger four mags and a box of fifty in my ruck. That stuff is heavy, and besides, I ain't going in for an attack, me gonna hide me and mine.
What they made a 45 ACP? I (still) be rocking the 45 Colt! The “Taylor Knock Out Index”: Velocity (in fps) x Weight (in grains) x Diameter (in inches) = _ divided by 7,000 [to convert into foot pounds of energy]. 9mm: [1901 AD] (Original) Standard P - 1180 x 115 x .355 = 48,173.5 divided by 7,000 = 6.88 ft pd Underwood Ammo 9mm: Standard P - 1300 x 115 x .355 = 53,072.5 divided by 7000 = 7.58 ft pd +P - 1100 x 147 x .355 = 57,403.5 divided by 7000 = 8.2 ft pd +P+ - 1550 x 90 x .355 = 49,522.5 divided by 7000 = 7.07 ft pd - (?) Notice how big and slow is better than little and faster every time? Well now, it ain’t just what she said anymore! And on that note - 45 ACP: [1904 AD] Standard P - 835 x 230 x .451 = 86,614.55 divided by 7,000 = 12.37 ft pd Underwood Ammo 45 ACP: +P - 925 x 255 x .452 = 106,615.5 divided by 7000 = 15.23 ft pd Fools Figure, but Figures don't Fool! Which now leads us to the Facts - 45 Colt: [1872 AD] (Original) Standard P - 1000 x 235 x .456 = 107,160 divided by 7,000 = 15.3 ft pd Original Underwood Ammo 45 Colt: Standard P - 1000 x 250 x .452 = 113,000 divided by 7,000 = 16.14 ft pd - Xtreme Penetrator +P - 1400 x 250 x .452 = 158,200 divided by 7,000 = 22.6ft pd - Xtreme Penetrator +P This is the results of big getting faster. So, "faster can be goods so long as size is not compromised!" And I quoted her on that. [Liberty Ammunition 45 Colt: Standard P - 1800 x 78 x .452 = 63,460.8 divided by 7,000 = 9.0658 ft pd - Civil Defense Showing little going fast is just that, and nothing more!] +P - 1325 x 325 x .452 = 194,642.5 divided by 7,000 = 27.8 ft pd - Long Flat Nose Gas Check Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast +P This is the results of big getting bigger! As so did her eyes! Standard P - 900 x 220 x .452 = 89,496 divided by 7,000 = 12.785 ft pd - Maximum Expansion (before it expands) Standard P - 900 x 220 x 1.75 = 346,500 divided by 7,000 = 49.5 ft pd - Maximum Expansion (after it expands) This is the results of big becoming HUGE! At this point she was speechless(?).
Over the years I have used and repaired a large variety of weapons, it comes down to personal preference once reliability has been met. The issue of spare parts is one of availability of them WHEN you purchase your gun you should purchase them when you buy the gun. A lifetime warranty on a gun is worthless if they will not sell you parts or the gun has been banned.
9mm v .40 v .45 v 10mm is an easy question to answer. Shot placement and proficiency. Pick a sidearm and get good with it. If you're worried about universality, covering all the bases, find a platform like the Witness, slide swaps can give you all of the above. That being said,I carry a 10mm because the more energy you transfer the more damage you do and 10mm will be the first guns to starve to death in an ammo famine., so theres a 9mm for the lean times
You touched on a point which I don’t think people understand, when you said there will be a lot of dead people for various reasons. People don’t understand that if shit went south it wouldn’t be one side vs the other, it would be a whole bunch of sides vs a whole bunch of sides. People with different agendas and what not. But I’m glad you said that.
Great tools at less then 25 yards. Ever notice how much velocity is lost at/past 25 yards? A rifle caliber is vastly superior. Period. It's just physics. BTW my side arm is a Glock21 in .45ACP.
Ultimately, when you argue about what caliber is best, you are arguing about how much energy you are putting into the system. Today's hollow point loads are all very effective such that they all remain in the body which means all that energy in the bullet is transferred into the body creating a destructive force. If you use a large bullet and it transfers X amount of energy into the target and then use a smaller caliber that also transfers X amount of energy into the target, then you would expect to see similar wounds with similar damage. If you hand load your ammunition then you would now that a 45 ACP load takes about the same amount of powder as does a 9 mm. A .40 caliber bullet takes about 10% more. What this means is that the damage done by 9 mm and .45 caliber bullets should be about the same and this is exactly what trauma surgeons see when they treat shooting victims. So if you want to use a weapon that inflicts more damage, then do not argue about the size of certain calibers and instead find a caliber that uses more powder which will give the bullet a larger energy source term which results in more destructive energy behind the bullet.
I agree, with the flesh target vs Hp scenario. If one lives in a state that bans hp's, forcing someone to use ball (New Jersey) go for the 45. If all you can do is poke holes, poke the biggest holes you can. Then there's body armor, which many of us own. Mind you the following scenario happened in the 90's, and I'm aware that factory loads have progressed: Kinetic transfer rules, when penetration is negated. I took a 9mm to the chest wearing my vest. It hurt, and I had a nasty bruise for a good while, but other than that I was fine. In that same time frame a sherriff's deputy got hit with a 45. Supposedly the coroner stated it was a toss up as to whether the shattered ribs that punctured his lungs killed him, or the massive blunt force trauma that stopped his heart. A wise man doesn't want to get shot, regardless of caliber. Therefore, it's my opinion that one should choose what he's comfortable with.
@@nickx8411 y'all talk about training, what training? Training to stop a threat that's shooting back at you? How do you train for that? Every scenario you could possibly come up with will be different than the one you'll face in a real life situation. If anything a person should be more skilled in avoiding a confrontation and running from a threat than to put themselves in a life or death situation. The best fight is the one you're never in.
Good point about ammo, if you find ammo then there must be a weapon of that caliber nearby. And your point about avoidance of a confrontation in a SHTF scenario is spot on, become "stealthy and gray". What would be the point, why take the chance? I own several calibers of handguns. Of which I have my favorites. So I stock more ammo in that caliber (.45 acp) than the others. But I feel a prepper should have a weapon for any common caliber, and should stockpile ammo in all those calibers. So I stockpile 9mm, 45acp, and 22 LR in pistol ammo, and 5.56/.223, (30/40 Krag) .308, and some 30/06 for rifle offense/defense and hunting. And of course 12 ga in a variety of sizes for defense and hunting. I think that gives me a good start in a SHTF situation. I think where people will make their mistakes will be to stock ammo that will be hard to obtain in the long run. The most popular pistol, rifle and shotgun rounds will be the easiest to get. Forget about your exotics such as .357 mag, .44 mag, 40 Cal, and 10mm for pistol, and 6.5 creedmor, 300 blackout, 270, 50 Cal , and any of the magnums. Although they are superior to a lot of hunting ammo I have listed, they will be impossible to obtain in an emergency, and a rifle or pistol without ammo, is no more than a useless club. Subscribed and liked.
I'm like, what ever you got, that ones self has in reach. That's a good one. Ask yourself, does it go BANG every time you pull the trigger, YAY!!!!! that's the one for you.....
I love your common sense. Guns are tools. You should carry the biggest gun you can shoot accurately and consistantly. I, personally, cannot shoot a .45 more than 2x before my hand and wrist hurts due to past damage. A .9mm is much easier on me. I can empty a 15 round magazine before i feel ill effects. I am accurate with both though...each has about a 1" to 2" spread when target shooting per magazine. In a movement (me and target) setting, i am far faster and accurate with the .9mm than the .45... .9mm is thus far my chosen calliber because of this. Im equally accurate and find .38s.
I've spoken to a few other folks about this subject. Mostly what I advocate is choosing the weapon that is best for you, because too many factors go into it. For instance, one fella I know chose a 9mm because while he can shoot a .45, at his age it makes his wrist hurt before the first magazine runs out. Also, the thought of having to carry enough rounds of .45 isn't as bad as the same number rounds as 9mm. Another person I know uses 9mm exclusively between sidearm and rifle. Only need to carry one kind of ammo, that way. Myself, I can use several, though carry limited amounts of each. I am partial to 9mm and .380. The grips fit my hand. I compensate for the lack of power with ammo type and make my shots count. I also believe in being versatile enough to be able to pick up that dropped or offered .45, AK or other rifle and use it anyway.
I have both but prefer the 9mm because it's much cheaper to shoot. And that translates to more practice. And more practice translates to greater efficiency. Oh, and did I mention 9mm pistols hold more rounds than .45 pistols? I'll take the 9mm any day even if it "allegedly" doesn't have the knockdown power of a .45.
Enjoyed the video! I think this conversation is a nice distraction for when people don't want to contemplate bleeding out from a firefight gone wrong... everyone has guns and ammo but how many people have medical supplies and the knowledge to use them?
The answer of parts and ammo depends on short term or long term events. Long term, parts and ammo may become very useful as far as having and selection. Both will become scarce, if in fact the population isn't completely decimated. As others will be out in the space competing for the same resources, which includes ammo and parts (spare weapons). Last ones standing with not only functioning firearms AND ammo, has a better chance of not being ruled over by those who do. Of course, history could be completely wrong, but so far that IS the way it has always worked. Governments, lets call them, and other organizations that have armories have parts and ammo stocked for a reason. Just like lords of old had more in their armory then just a sword and armor for just themselves. They in fact had not only a multitude of weapons, but also the craftsmen to produce and maintain what they did have, as well craftsmen to produce and maintain ammo such as arrows. Never considered though Joe that you were preparing for just a short term event. Interesting, not everyday I have to adjust my image / mental profile of somebody so radically.
@@nickx8411 Yeah, now you might actually address the points that I abd Joe actually talked about, though I doubt you can or you would have. That is called a diversion, when you don't address the subject matter presented as I did directly to what Joe had to say, as a means of not addressing what was said. I'm sure Joe is able to address a reply his self, and perhaps even stay on point and address what I said. If I recall correctly, what Joe said was if you were ever in a situation that required 200 rounds in one firefight (out and about or on the trail), you will probably be dead, though I think that is really stitching it. If somebody actually were to assault your community there is a very good chance that one could use upwards of 200 rounds of ammo and certainly not end up dead. Historically speaking there has been and is all sorts of people still alive that have used that much of ammo in a fire fight, even some cops have come close to it, that are still alive today or died a death from some other cause then being in a fire fight. Nowhere did Joe say anything about what you suggested by your statement "If you're in a situation where you think you're going to wear out your gun, Pastor is right... your situation is too "hot" and you're likely going to be killed." You completely made that up because you didn't have any better argument. And yet nothing I said have you refuted, because what I said is completely accurate and historically correct, as well correct contemporaneously speaking. As a community / tribe YOU should store parts and have some compatibility in common so those parts actually mean something JUST like other government, NGOs, and organizations do for their armory. And that was what my whole point was, that there may be stiff competition for ammo and weapons out in the space that it isn't something you really want to depend on, though certainly it is a plus if you do find either or any other supplies. However, that said, you do make a good point about preventive parts replacement, as a part BREAKING in the middle of a fire fight WILL certainly get you killed, and why it is generally one of the recommended reasons to carry as pistol as backup to a rifle.
RIP CURL HERE. SO TRUE PASTOR. You need to learn to be self sufficient and prepare all you can without causing any hardships. Then practice , practice , practice all your skills and form a group of vetted , trusted , likeminded people with a wide range of skills. Then stay under the radar at first until such time it is safer to be out to get a lay of the land and situation and take notes. There will likely be lots of people who didnt make it for what ever reason. There will likely be a lot to gather for a wile. But be aware you wont be the only ones looking. But ammo will likely be one of the items you find as well as guns. Who cares the make or caliber. It’s all valuable in some way. And for just everyday carry i carry anywhere from a 380 to a 45 acp now depending on weather and clothing i am wearing. But if its shtf i would stop worrying as much if the end of my gun shows and would Cary larger 9mm to 45 acp. But a good rule of thumb is for mags is one in the gun chambered and ready and two on your belt no matter what you carry. So that can range from 18 to 60 rds. Ready to go. If you were gearing up to head out on a scouting or patrol outing then i would through 2 to 3 more loaded mags on my vest/body armor. Then is when we get to rifles in this case i carry 200 to 250 (maybe 300) rds. That’s 2 to 3-30 rd mags on the gun with 4 to 5 - 30 rd mags on your vest/ body armor. Along with water ,high energy snack , and normal trauma/first aid , navigation, fire, para cord and basic survival gear for 24 t0 48 hrs. (Very small) just a side note if i Carry a 380 now i always have my go box in the car wich has a full sized pistol and tac rifle and tac shotgun. And since we live in ore i also have a survival 22 rifle and other survival gear in my go box. It never fails we have every year people who get lost or stranded in the mtns and have nothing and a lot of the time it doesn’t end well. I helping with search & rescue has made me aware how a simple go box and some basic knowledge can save lives. So all my kids that earn and reach the age to drive get their own box and as they get older they get upgraded to the legal protection levels with training and practice. Thanks again for your great videos and wise words. More should be listening.
Priceless wisdom: "If you see a scenario up there that's going to require you to expend a basic load of ammo, dude you need to go the other way."
You're exactly right, running is good for us especially when being shot at. Run, duck or hide just get the hell outta there.
@@Brett235 Just remember the 5 D's, Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive, and Dodge.
snek if you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball!!
Gunshots draw more zombies or worse, , cops.
One should use whichever one they can shoot accurately. However, my choice has always been the .45 ACP as my carry weapon. But I'll shoot a .22 short if that's all that's available. It beats throwing a rock.
love it:: slingshot
After 45 years in the gun game, I'll add my two cents. Handguns regardless of caliber are very weak in comparison to Rifle cartridges. We all know that. So we have to look at a different Dynamic to get the most effective reaction to our tools that we use. I use as an example, Broadhead size in archery. The larger The Cutting surface of your Broadhead, allows you to do more damage to more tissue, so that there is more blood loss, and a quicker incapacitation of your game animal. So, a 45 will cause more tissue damage from an expanding bullet than a 9 millimeter will. Just physics. The more tissue damage, the more blood loss, the faster to unconsciousness and incapacity you could bring your attacker to. Add Crush Factor to the equation, or impact foot pounds, and the 45 is still better. My two cents
I saw a bumper sticker once..
".45 ACP... because shooting twice is just silly"
Gay
@Rob Napoli 🙄handguns suck for stopping people and ya I have a 45
@@Nobody-xh5qe cares what you think
I once saw a bumper sticker:
_R U looking for your cat? Try looking under my tires!_
and on another day:
[small font] _Why are you so close? We don´t know each other!_
I'm sorry Pastor but I refuse to give up my caliber debates or my truck feuds. They define me. They demonstrate my character and let people know what kind of man I am. 'Murica!! Also, Pepsi sucks. Coke rules and if you use DeWalt tools you don't know how to build. There can be no Stihl versus Husqavarna debate because duh, Husqavarna is garbage. And since we're ending debates, Mary Anne obviously you nitwits, that Ginger was a tramp! Thank you for letting me get that off my chest. I feel better.
I swear your ever loving genius Dean.
I've been called alot of things. You might be the first to call me genius...
Dr. Pepper is best!
Carbonated prune juice from Waco, TX.
Awesome video, great points. I keep plenty of .22 and 7.62x39 not for defense. But for hunting! Which people tend to forget about. .22 for squirrel and smaller game. 7.62x39 for hog and larger running around in FL.
7.62x39 in FL !
7.62 x 39 is ideal for pigs.
@@ThePNWRiderWA 2- or 4-legged ones?
Both in LA county, CA 😂
Thank you for the reality check Sir. 45acp 9mm Don't matter as long as you can use it.
EXACTLY!! Fast, accurate THREAT STOPPING shots will ALWAYS trump caliber choice alone.
Handguns are nice for concealed carry. If we’re in a world of chaos Long guns will be a better choice.
dutchyfresh1 one of each, a side arm is nice to have when you have to put your rifle down.
dutchyfresh1 yes but carry both primary n secondary
Shotgun
Once again, Pastor Joe, you're hitting the marks perfectly. Professionally speaking (Firefighter/Paramedic) the cavitation injuries from a 45 ACP is far superior to a 9mm.
Big exit holes are one thing the cavitation injuries is a major issue, big holes mean faster bleed outs. All in all, does it really matter NO. I own many 45 pistols (I am a 45 caliber guy) I also own many 9mm. pistols. 9mm. ammo is much cheaper to shoot and to hoard. It is also easier to trade because it is common (not that 45 is uncommon) 9MM. pistols usually carry a much higher capacity. I love 1911 and own one, however, it only carries 8 rounds so if you should get involved in a situation where you might have multiple assailants and your carrying that low capacity firearm you are at a distinct disadvantage. The first requirement I have for any EDC handgun is capacity. I work with former spec ops guys who have extensive combat experience (they all carry 9mm.firearms) and they all believe this as well. Up until 3 years ago, I have always been a 45 ACP dude. Gunfighting is about angles and capacity. I have participated in many tactical competitions in the past and every time I used my 45 I lost my ass. I had to reload 2 to 3 times as opposed to the 9mm guys 1 re-load. My shot placements were above average, but the reloads killed me every time. So in my mind, I thought about how I could properly place this in a scenario in real life. Most gun owners have never shot their firearm in defense of their lives to begin with. When confronted with needing to use their firearms these scenarios go from nice to not so nice in a blink of an eye so most will miss their first to third shot at best. Now with an 8 shot firearm, you are now down to 5 rounds left. Let's say you have 2 assailants now reality gets scary. What about 3 assailants? How many people wish to carry 1 or even 2 mag carriers on their body daily? I will gander a guess and say not many.
Between my profession and my competition experience, I have replaced my coveted 45 with a 9mm. I pray that most here today will not blow off what I say here. If you train regularly with the 45 and you regularly carry 3 mags and $$ is not a problem then carry on. If you do not do any of these then carry a high capacity firearm and the 9mm is a very good choice. I have 6 kids 5 are males. I am a firm believer in this country, and our right to carry a firearm. So years ago I made a commitment that all my children would get a pistol and an AR-15 from me as well as 1000 rounds for each firearm. I wish all parents would do this. All of my children know how to use these firearms as well. I know it has no bearing on this topic. In my opinion there really isn't a better way to get your kids to really think about why they are free and how to stay free than this. I would suggest every gun owner find a local gun association and enter pistol competitions with their EDC. Carry what you want its a free country for now, but make sure you know how to use it there isn't a better way to realize your setup's advantages and disadvantages before your life may depend on it. Good day and God bless everyone as well as this Republic.
Ps. I agree there will be a lot of stuff lying around, free parts, firearms, ammo, and Levis albeit with a few holes in them:)
Yep... I live in Texas and every time one of the stores has a sale on "ammo" .. the; 'survivalist'- 'preppars' and or 'doomsday' crowd buys up all the bullets that day! .. Thank you for the good advice... You are the Voice of reason and Logic.
Japanese soldiers in World War II said the 9 mm was like getting hit with a dime 45 was like getting hit with a quarter. They hated that 1911 That’s pretty much all I need to know
I’ve always heard they NEEDED a bigger round that hit harder than a 9. 45 did the job. I gather the same info from history as you. I love all calibers, but you can’t argue with history and real world experiences.
It was fmj then nothing compared to the technology they have for 9s
@@1594simonsays .45 and .357 have also advanced with time…
PJF, One of my mentors told me something i still use today. " get the largest caliber you can shot accurately and afford to practice with" ,Jeff Cooper once said " if i thought there was going to be trouble i would've brought a rifle" good tactics and rounds down range, practice ,practice, practice!
I shoot both,😁
Every prepper should be a student of arms to at least some degree. Knowing how to function check, load/unload and make safe at least the most popular guns out there is a vital skill.
Honestly i'm in the mind set of what ever. Shoot what you know and trust .(and are trained in) Make sure that you train, training is the real thing that is important.
truth
that's got to be the best and realist video I've ever seen.
great job Joe
The difference is the impact between semi truck and if subcompact. As a former LEO I carried a 45 APC AND I NEVER HAD TO FIRE MORE THAN TWO ROUNDS TO PUT A SUSPECT DOWN. But I've known many officers secured 9 mm that had to empty the magazine and reload to put a suspect down. You read them to me news we're police officers shot at suspect 30 times, it was because they were carrying 9 mm automatics.
Edward, do you remember the Dade County shoot out in the late 80s? The FBI had the same issues. It seems to have a lot to do with adrenalin. Good point.
@@albodakine1 a lot of the Dade county shootout had to do with FBI training and equipment, at the time. It hadn't been updated since J. Edgar Hoover's time. The FBI agents were armed with sidearms and shotguns against full auto weapons, either lightweight under the shirt vest or no vest, pretty much the same situation as the LA Wells Fargo bank robbery shootout. The criminals were better armed and better armored in both cases. Still I've double-tapped a suspect in military body armor what's 45 I'm putting down,... It didn't penetrate his fest and it didn't kill him,... But it did knocking down and crack four of his ribs, allowing me to disarm him,... Again it's was matter of impact.
I use to be strictly 45acp carried one on duty for 28 years. Now much older the weight is a factor. Down sized to 9mm plus p. Everyone should remember a pistol is only used until you can get your long gun.
"Firefights go both ways" I love that, too many tend to neglect that truth.
Thank you for the humor. OMGoodness, I had to watch it twice. You really cheered up my day.
My worst deployment in Afghanistan, I did not shoot more than 300 rounds out of my 240B for my one year period of time there. Mind you I was in an Infantry Unit in Helmand Province. As we called it “Hell Man” province. That fantasy of stockpiling thousands of rounds just for pure fighting during shtf is crazy!
Jim Califwin Nope! I’d rather stay in the US and enjoy my 2nd amendment right😂😂😂...
1. IF in a SHTF situation you find yourself in a place where there are A LOT of dead people laying around, you're probably already infected with
what ever killed them.
2. Rummaging around in those locations is a sure way to be 1 more dead person laying around.
Best advice: Be on guard everyday, all day long and over night for the possible collapse of a civilization near you. Have more than 1 predetermined "Bug out" location and/or the ability to travel there with sufficient supplies, if possible ahead of the collapse/SHTF scenario.
Good luck.
9mm is just the go to round but you bring up great points. Oh, if anyone gets hit with the .22 don`t go to the hospital that`s closed.
Going with what you know is a good idea. For handguns I've standardized on .45 acp. For long guns I've standardized on 7.62x51. Trained with both and uncomfortable with them. 23 years active Army probably has had some influence on my decisions.
Sorry, comfortable not uncomfortable.
My bag has a 357 Mag lever gun and a revolver. It's enough gun to get me out of trouble and not enough to get me into it (Rambo syndrome).
It should have bottle caps and stimpacks too
Thanks Pastor for just being truthful and real!!
I agree carry the largest caliber you’re most ACCURATE with!
A few points....30.06 or 308 is going to be more available than .340 Weatherbly....9mm is going to be more available than .40...going with govt rounds I feel is best...you can criticize me for this...but availability is key...
Didn't the gov buy a ton of .40 though?
@@crowsbridge Maybe...I am still active duty Army, we still use the M-9 which is a 9mm, Beretta FS-92 for side arm...maybe SOCOM uses something different (they prolly let's those guys choose their own kits). I can't tell you about the rest of the govt, only the Army
@@crowsbridge DHS is using .40. Don't know about other agencies....
I think ammo availability is a factor to a certain point. I mean choosing some obscure caliber over the more common ones doesn't make much sense for obvious reasons but at the same time if you buy any of the common stuff like 9mm, 45, 40, 357/38 and have a few hundred rounds set aside I really don't see you needing to do much scavenging. You'd have to pretty much go to war with nothing but a handgun to go through that much ammo.
With pistols I like having a 380 pocket pistol, a few handout 22s, and my glock 9mm.
Just my opinion on pistols.
For a defensive handgun caliber I prefer a 357 Mag revolver or a 357 SIG Semi Auto. That said I have carried both a 9mm & a 45 ACP working as an LEO & I had confidence in both. If I had to choose one handgun for TEOTWAWKI it would be the 357 Mag revolver. I was issued one when I first began working as an LEO back in the 1980's & still have it, a S&W M-65. I like the simplicity of a revolver & the versatility of a 357 Mag - 38 Special load. There is a big range of loads in between a hot 357 & light 38. A revolver round (no matter the shape or type) will function in all revolvers of the same caliber. The same cannot be said for a semi auto round in a pistol of the same caliber. They can be much more finicky. Also stockpile ammo not so much for SHTF, even though you should. But for when the government cuts off the supply for whatever reason. This way you can still train ...
A 9 mm and a 357 mag for hand gun. That's what I use, but you need to get something and practice 😉 Simple as that, can't get good if you don't practice.
.22 can produuce a lot of food with much smaller sound footprint, save the handgun for when u need it
What kind of practice? I hear that alot and it doesn't really make much sense to me. I've always lived in or near the woods, hunted all types of game and have done my fair share of trapping so that being said do I need to practice with my firearms that I've been shooting for 30+ years? All I hear on these videos is training and practice, maybe for some but not for all.
Only thing .45 has going for it is that its lower pressures may have positive implications for reliability & maintainability.
As much as I love my 1911, that thing is high maintenance. In a modern poly frame, my understanding is that it's a wash between the two.
A better use for stockpiling ammo is for trade during grid down.
I'm more worried about the guy with the 25 cal steel shot slingshot. You think I'm joking, I'm not. Does more damage then you think!
Hey Pastor Joe, how dare you inject common sense into a debate!
Done
I agree, people tend to dream up these scenarios where they think one caliber is better based on ammo and parts availability. But in reality if you have a reliable handgun that you shoot well and a couple hundred rounds set aside for SHTF I just don't see how that wouldn't be adequate to get you though the situations where you'd need a handgun. If anything I'd buy more than 1 gun of the same caliber in case one does get damaged or lost you've got a back up. Ammo and parts would really be a non issue then.
I agree with 90+ percent with Pastor Joe. Just know your thing and learn it very well. As 50 plus old guy, I just work on knowing my platforms being good at them. You can always learn more which is good but you also learn to know you will have put the work into any platform or discipline. There are no shortcuts for this.
Good points made here PJ. And always remember the best swordsman is the one who avoids drawing his sword altogether. 👍
9mm vs 45acp? The winner is: 308.
The 45acp will help you get to the 308.
Ok boomer
No 30.06 is 15% better than .308
Stew Pidasso that’s a big pistol!
@@craigwitte2943 .300 win mag is 15% better than .30-06
A practical no BS approach. I like it. That being said I do tend to keep way more than 200 rounds on hand for my side arm. But you're right if you are using that much back up gun ammo you need re evaluate your strategy
You deliver a good dose of reality, as usual. Thanks Pastor 👍. I have spent a fair amount of time with both, .45ACP & 9mm Luger. They are both great. They are as good as the shooter is. A .45, 230grn @ 900(+,-) fps commonly has, more or less, about 300ft,lbs of energy. A 9mm, 115grn @ 1,150 (+,-) fps has about 300ft,lbs of energy. Both calibers have roughly the same energy, give or take about 15ft,lbs or so.
On the plus side for .45, it makes a larger wound channel. On the down side, it is harder for most beginners to achieve good accuracy with a .45, especially in a timed match or high stress situation.
If you can have both, do so. But, you should be proficient with as many weapon systems as possible as a rule of thumb
Concerning fire fights, Col. Jeff Cooper (RIP) said, "A handgun is what you use to get to the rifle that you should have never left behind." Street Stoppers by Marshall/Sanow, 1996 edition, shows the 9mm 115 gr. with a 91% one shot stop compared to the 45 ACP 280gr with a 96%. These are shot hit in the torso or head.
The 45 ACP has remained about the same with very little improvement, on the other hand, the 9mm 115 has made large improvements since the writing of the book.
During SHTF, because of lack of professional medical services, there will not be MUCH difference between 9mm and .45 ACP. Yes, size matters, so does weight in having to carry it around. Hell, if you practice and get good, bows and arrows work just fine. Carry what you are most competent with.
THANK YOU.
I've had this argument I don't know how many times with people and said what you did "This isn't a first person shooter, I'm not going to run around and find boxes of ammo laying in the middle of the floor. If I find ammo, the gun that went with it is probably laying around somewhere close."
I think it's more useful to have universal gear. I.e. buy magazine pouches that can use any pistol mag, or can use AR/AK/.308 magazines. Get an M12/UM84 holster that will hold damn near any handgun. Then you can use pretty much anything you pick up.
I believe that was the most informative and best way I have heard this explained. And I thank you for taking the time to do it.
.22 cheaper very effective and the most underrated round out there.
@@graynotescartridgebox I've seen what they can do on the street, it depends on where you are hit that determines if you are a corpse or still breathing.
Besides who said anything about .22 for self defense anyway I just stated what I did they're good for bartering, hunting, and can be bought in blocks saves your self defense ammo for just that and .22 can be used in self-defense to get to your go to weapon sheesh.
Finally, someone talking common sense (or is it still common?). I´d like to add a few things, although I´m not an expert (I can´t even legally touch a gun).
1) a 9mm hollow point can make just as big holes as a 45 FMJ.
2) To humans, it doesn´t matter much if you get shot by a 45 or a 44 magnum unless there are obstacles between you and the shooter. Otherwise, it´s just relevant for long-range shooting, or shooting animals in a different weight-class than us. After all, bullets tend to punch holes and carry on behind the target rather than dumping all their kinetic energy in their target.
3) regarding dumping energy: temporary cavities seem to be of no use unless we´re talking about 2200 FPS, or 660m/s and above projectiles as then the shockwaves in the tissue seem to actually rupture it.
So, all in all, if something can go through bone and continue for another 10-30cm (4-12 In), then it will pretty much do its job on a human target. Unless you reach rifle velocities, more energy just means more recoil, blast and flash. Moreover, if something is 9mm or 12mm probably won´t make someone bleed out faster, unless the projectile deforms or fragments etc. Thus, to keep recoil down and capacity up, the smallest round that does the trick is probably good enough.
Hahaha! People have been video gaming too much. Every time someone is shot there won’t be a pile of ammunition in the treasure chest!
Thank you for sharing your insight and knowledge Pastor Fox ! Left the city 2 years ago and haven’t looked back.
They still make a 45apc revolver that uses moonrings it's a fine addtion to any collection.
Just because SHTF, one must still train/practice to maintain proficiency... This is why I lay in ample supplies of ammo/reloading components for all the weapons I compete with...
One may think bartering things for ammo may be easier via 9mm.
Been there done that. The shock value of a bigger round is best. Took 2 rounds myself learning that.
Thanks for sharing! Glad you’re still here
The Webley is most often chambered in .41 caliber, but availability is very limited to specialty vendors or reloaders. Use whatever you have, and train to be able to shoot whatever is handy! In a perfect world, stick with common military and police calibers for best available ammo options, but mostly stock what you can shoot accurately, and practice with what is on hand!
That sounds like a cool easter egg hunt! Good video.
Was watching this again..
Old school and straight up
I like it bro
Well the thing I like about the .45 ACP is that it earned its reputation as a FMJ. Due to its slower speed and mass even as a FMJ it actually creates enough resistance to do damage and transfer it's energy and in most cases not even exit the human body. A 9mm with it's smaller diameter/mass and higher speed will zip right through barely creating enough resistance to do damage and dump any of its energy. From a prepping standpoint if you run out of expensive hollow points or can't find them and have to use your cheaper range ammo the .45 is definitely the better option. People talk about stockpiling ammo but what kind are they stockpiling? Is it all expensive hollow points?
A group of guys I know at the range all have muzzle loader rifles and pistols. Their theory is that after the balloon goes up they can make their own black powder and cast their own lead balls, so ammunition will never be a problem. I told them that was too difficult since they had to locate lead and black powder chemicals, and so my EOT weapon was a bow and arrow. I'd just pull the arrows out of the dead people I shot and carry on. Another guy standing by said that bows and arrows were too complex, he used a hand made stone head axe. Said if it was good enough for cavemen, it was good enough for him.
There’s an excellent study on the effectiveness of various ammunition in self defense shootings. The conclusion is basically that everything that’s not a mouse caliber is roughly the same. Long guns are much better than handguns. 22 is not the best but it’s still very effective. Basically carry what you can shoot accurately.
The First step in surviving a gun fight is, Don't go looking for one.
Second step, Be aware of your surroundings, so you can get that first shot off.
Third Step. Go to step 1.
As for foreign invaders, Nope, but okay, if that were to happen, then Use Your stuff to get their stuff, then use their stuff against them, they will have plenty of it.
By the way I give those same kinds of people VikingPrepardness the same advice and then tell them to review the first three rules I gave. Like your videos.
Thank you so much for this. This is so refreshing. These prepper videos on UA-cam talking about why you need an Ar and a room full of ammo but do know the first thing about building a fire or producing water in a pinch. They create unnecessary need when all they should think of first is changing their damn lock as lol.
It doesn't matter which caliber you use, just so long as you are getting hits in the center of mass.
Reliable self defense ammo is a must... I personally carry Sig P365 with +P ammo (which is loaded 10% higher) made by by Liberty Civil Defense (now sold business to another manuf.) which is 50 grain, travels 2000 feet per second and pierces level 3 alpha body armour LEGALLY. I love it... very light weight and does what I need it to as a firearms trainer and NRA training counselor/CCH instructor.
You're welcome Otis!! LOL @@midway27272727
@@jimcalifwin3760 That shouldn't have happened with that round count. (warranty???) Always good to have backup firearm too. ( I usually carry 2 at a time in training and everyday carry) Definitely light weight even with the extended mag *12+1) for such a small frame. I have become very accurate with it at 45 feet in a 3 inch group, while my cop neighbor insisted he compete with me at that range and his .45 got him a whopping 22 inch group. LOL.... he now shuts up! My husband and I also have a Standard Manufactuer DP-12. AWESOME for fun and home protection!! :)
People spend too much time worrying about convenient concerns. What they should be worrying about is what life will be like in a grid down situation. I've lived through Katrina and I can tell you that when the power goes out and people start getting hungry you see the ugly side of humanity. It's just easier for people to argue about calibers though.
Thank you as always Pastor Fox
I was always fond of the .45 acp be it 1911 or Glock 21. Then I found 10mm and 460 Rowland and those were interesting for a while. Now, after having spent 30 minutes training with a light weight J frame .357 magnum yesterday, I am more convinced then ever that 9mm is pretty ideal for SD. Its low recoil and general cheapness make it too easy to train with and that's probably important. It's also easier to conceal a Glock 19 than a Glock 21 or 20 and that's usually a plus. The extra ammo capacity is great if you absolutely have to put some lead in a head. I'm just getting a Glock 19 next week and that will be the end of the caliber drama for me.
If I were in a EOWAWKI situation btw, I would absolutely bring my Ruger Mark IV tactical in .22LR along btw...with it's suppressor and railmaster laser of course. That's a problem solving combination right there. Because you probably aren't going to want to draw attention to yourself.
2 points I consider...
1) i dont always hit what i'm aiming at, especially if it or i am moving. More rounds is better.
2) If I'm home I'll have all the ammo I can use. If I'm forced to travel, lighter is better.
Best advice I have watched on this Subject.
Going for the middle of the road compromise here... 10mm is my primary sidearm (Glock 29.) More oomph than a 9mm and terminal ballistics are better at distance than .45.
Good video. Agree 100%
I believe one of the most important reasons to choose a caliber is so that you have the same caliber as the rest of the people in your MAG. That's mainly it for me
I am "The Annoyed Man" who asked Pastor Joe the original 9mm v .45 ACP question he’s addressing in this video. I *used* to carry .45 ACP, but not Glocks. I have five other .45s in three other platforms. The primary reason I started carrying Glock 9mm pistols is that that’s what my wife carries, and it was important to me that she be able to pick up my gun if something were to happen to me, be familiar with the manual of arms for it, and be comfortable with shooting it.
She’s not really a gun person. She has dutifully learned to shoot; but for her, it’s a *duty* not a hobby. She owns and shoots a couple of Glock 9mms, but hates shooting .45 and has no interest in getting used to it. I’m just happy that she’s comfortable with 9mm and carries one every day. Similarly, she now owns an AR carbine and is comfortable with it, but she has steadfastly been unwilling to shoot a .308 rifle, or a shotgun any bigger or more powerful than her 20 gauge over and under skeet gun. I’m just happy that she’s accepted the AR rifle platform as hers. So in the end, it was just a lot easier for me to adapt myself to a 9mm Glock than it was to force her to adapt to a .45 in a different platform.
I did mention Glock parts availability, but I’m a little geeky that way. I have a pretty decent supply of AR15 parts too....like spare LPKs; springs, pins & detents; flash hiders, crush washers, bolts, bolt rebuild kits, and that sort of thing. But one advantage of doing this is that we (my son and I) have become sort of the AR armorers for our circle. This is not just for me and *my* use. This is also part of the value that we can bring to a group. So since he, my wife, and I all carry Glock 9mms, I’m thinking of buying a few common Glock parts just to keep on the shelf for much the same reason that I have AR parts. And jus like with AR parts, I'm really thinking in terms of buying Glock parts *now* while they are cheap and available, more so than considering their availability when SHTF.
I’ve also stockpiled ammo for the caliber weapons that I own, both for rifles, pistols, and shotguns. Yes, it’s better to have ALL of the ammo and parts things now while they’re easily available. I’m not the kind of guy who would do nothing until after SHTF.
Love your videos! You just have a way of making people think about the possible reality instead of their pinned up shoot 'em up fantasy! Thanks for that!!!
MAN WHAT A BUST ! I HAD MY HEART SET ON A WEBLEY AND YOU JUST RUINED IT FOR ME.
Dodge Dart lmao
Lol
The best way to win a fire fight is not to get involved in one if at all possible. The odds of one being not injured or killed during a high rate of fire exchange is very unlikely. Stay the course and prep on!
45 acp has great hitting power. 9mm expanders pretty good too. I like my 9mm Beretta for the high capacity. You may be shooting over your shoulder running from trouble. 21 rnds might keep their heads down for you to get away or to your rifle. Odd ball rnd is 7.62 x 25 Tokarev. It can defeat light body armor.
The 12mm box wrench is underpowered, personally I believe a 7/8 in. Combination wrench is best, but in a pinch a 5/8 in. open end is still better than your 12mm. Box....of course nothing beats an 18 in. Adjustable Pipe wrench
I'm Canadian with a trapper's licence. We are allowed to carry ( have in possession ) a .22 long arm while trapping. Restricted from carrying anything bigger. So I will leave a .22 long arm visible for the CO to see and check.
Brother I wish I could move my family on that mountain of yours. I like being around like minded people. Enjoy the videos. Thanks
I run a .45, I figger four mags and a box of fifty in my ruck. That stuff is heavy, and besides, I ain't going in for an attack, me gonna hide me and mine.
That's my plan exactly. Common sense...
My plan also. Hide an live to fight another day (if you half to).
As always great advice, thanks PJ
What they made a 45 ACP?
I (still) be rocking the 45 Colt!
The “Taylor Knock Out Index”: Velocity (in fps) x Weight (in grains) x Diameter (in inches) = _ divided by 7,000 [to convert into foot pounds of energy].
9mm: [1901 AD] (Original)
Standard P - 1180 x 115 x .355 = 48,173.5 divided by 7,000 = 6.88 ft pd
Underwood Ammo 9mm:
Standard P - 1300 x 115 x .355 = 53,072.5 divided by 7000 = 7.58 ft pd
+P - 1100 x 147 x .355 = 57,403.5 divided by 7000 = 8.2 ft pd
+P+ - 1550 x 90 x .355 = 49,522.5 divided by 7000 = 7.07 ft pd - (?)
Notice how big and slow is better than little and faster every time? Well now, it ain’t just what she said anymore!
And on that note -
45 ACP: [1904 AD]
Standard P - 835 x 230 x .451 = 86,614.55 divided by 7,000 = 12.37 ft pd
Underwood Ammo 45 ACP:
+P - 925 x 255 x .452 = 106,615.5 divided by 7000 = 15.23 ft pd
Fools Figure, but Figures don't Fool! Which now leads us to the Facts -
45 Colt: [1872 AD] (Original)
Standard P - 1000 x 235 x .456 = 107,160 divided by 7,000 = 15.3 ft pd Original
Underwood Ammo 45 Colt:
Standard P - 1000 x 250 x .452 = 113,000 divided by 7,000 = 16.14 ft pd - Xtreme Penetrator
+P - 1400 x 250 x .452 = 158,200 divided by 7,000 = 22.6ft pd - Xtreme Penetrator +P
This is the results of big getting faster. So, "faster can be goods so long as size is not compromised!" And I quoted her on that.
[Liberty Ammunition 45 Colt:
Standard P - 1800 x 78 x .452 = 63,460.8 divided by 7,000 = 9.0658 ft pd - Civil Defense
Showing little going fast is just that, and nothing more!]
+P - 1325 x 325 x .452 = 194,642.5 divided by 7,000 = 27.8 ft pd - Long Flat Nose Gas Check Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast +P
This is the results of big getting bigger! As so did her eyes!
Standard P - 900 x 220 x .452 = 89,496 divided by 7,000 = 12.785 ft pd - Maximum Expansion (before it expands)
Standard P - 900 x 220 x 1.75 = 346,500 divided by 7,000 = 49.5 ft pd - Maximum Expansion (after it expands)
This is the results of big becoming HUGE! At this point she was speechless(?).
Over the years I have used and repaired a large variety of weapons, it comes down to personal preference once reliability has been met. The issue of spare parts is one of availability of them WHEN you purchase your gun you should purchase them when you buy the gun. A lifetime warranty on a gun is worthless if they will not sell you parts or the gun has been banned.
9mm v .40 v .45 v 10mm is an easy question to answer. Shot placement and proficiency. Pick a sidearm and get good with it. If you're worried about universality, covering all the bases, find a platform like the Witness, slide swaps can give you all of the above. That being said,I carry a 10mm because the more energy you transfer the more damage you do and 10mm will be the first guns to starve to death in an ammo famine., so theres a 9mm for the lean times
You touched on a point which I don’t think people understand, when you said there will be a lot of dead people for various reasons. People don’t understand that if shit went south it wouldn’t be one side vs the other, it would be a whole bunch of sides vs a whole bunch of sides. People with different agendas and what not. But I’m glad you said that.
I tend to have the same pistol and rifle. Carbine 45 and 1911 so I can carry the same ammo for both weapons. This is just me.
Great tools at less then 25 yards. Ever notice how much velocity is lost at/past 25 yards? A rifle caliber is vastly superior. Period. It's just physics. BTW my side arm is a Glock21 in .45ACP.
Yes shot placement!!!! I'm 100% with my .45 but 70% with my AR so I have been practicing with that more.
Ultimately, when you argue about what caliber is best, you are arguing about how much energy you are putting into the system. Today's hollow point loads are all very effective such that they all remain in the body which means all that energy in the bullet is transferred into the body creating a destructive force. If you use a large bullet and it transfers X amount of energy into the target and then use a smaller caliber that also transfers X amount of energy into the target, then you would expect to see similar wounds with similar damage. If you hand load your ammunition then you would now that a 45 ACP load takes about the same amount of powder as does a 9 mm. A .40 caliber bullet takes about 10% more. What this means is that the damage done by 9 mm and .45 caliber bullets should be about the same and this is exactly what trauma surgeons see when they treat shooting victims. So if you want to use a weapon that inflicts more damage, then do not argue about the size of certain calibers and instead find a caliber that uses more powder which will give the bullet a larger energy source term which results in more destructive energy behind the bullet.
I agree, with the flesh target vs Hp scenario.
If one lives in a state that bans hp's, forcing someone to use ball (New Jersey) go for the 45. If all you can do is poke holes, poke the biggest holes you can.
Then there's body armor, which many of us own. Mind you the following scenario happened in the 90's, and I'm aware that factory loads have progressed:
Kinetic transfer rules, when penetration is negated. I took a 9mm to the chest wearing my vest. It hurt, and I had a nasty bruise for a good while, but other than that I was fine. In that same time frame a sherriff's deputy got hit with a 45. Supposedly the coroner stated it was a toss up as to whether the shattered ribs that punctured his lungs killed him, or the massive blunt force trauma that stopped his heart.
A wise man doesn't want to get shot, regardless of caliber. Therefore, it's my opinion that one should choose what he's comfortable with.
@@nickx8411 y'all talk about training, what training? Training to stop a threat that's shooting back at you? How do you train for that? Every scenario you could possibly come up with will be different than the one you'll face in a real life situation. If anything a person should be more skilled in avoiding a confrontation and running from a threat than to put themselves in a life or death situation. The best fight is the one you're never in.
Good point about ammo, if you find ammo then there must be a weapon of that caliber nearby. And your point about avoidance of a confrontation in a SHTF scenario is spot on, become "stealthy and gray". What would be the point, why take the chance? I own several calibers of handguns. Of which I have my favorites. So I stock more ammo in that caliber (.45 acp) than the others. But I feel a prepper should have a weapon for any common caliber, and should stockpile ammo in all those calibers. So I stockpile 9mm, 45acp, and 22 LR in pistol ammo, and 5.56/.223, (30/40 Krag) .308, and some 30/06 for rifle offense/defense and hunting. And of course 12 ga in a variety of sizes for defense and hunting. I think that gives me a good start in a SHTF situation. I think where people will make their mistakes will be to stock ammo that will be hard to obtain in the long run. The most popular pistol, rifle and shotgun rounds will be the easiest to get. Forget about your exotics such as .357 mag, .44 mag, 40 Cal, and 10mm for pistol, and 6.5 creedmor, 300 blackout, 270, 50 Cal , and any of the magnums. Although they are superior to a lot of hunting ammo I have listed, they will be impossible to obtain in an emergency, and a rifle or pistol without ammo, is no more than a useless club. Subscribed and liked.
I'm like, what ever you got, that ones self has in reach. That's a good one. Ask yourself, does it go BANG every time you pull the trigger, YAY!!!!! that's the one for you.....
Well put pastor.
I love your common sense. Guns are tools. You should carry the biggest gun you can shoot accurately and consistantly. I, personally, cannot shoot a .45 more than 2x before my hand and wrist hurts due to past damage. A .9mm is much easier on me. I can empty a 15 round magazine before i feel ill effects. I am accurate with both though...each has about a 1" to 2" spread when target shooting per magazine. In a movement (me and target) setting, i am far faster and accurate with the .9mm than the .45... .9mm is thus far my chosen calliber because of this. Im equally accurate and find .38s.
I've spoken to a few other folks about this subject. Mostly what I advocate is choosing the weapon that is best for you, because too many factors go into it. For instance, one fella I know chose a 9mm because while he can shoot a .45, at his age it makes his wrist hurt before the first magazine runs out. Also, the thought of having to carry enough rounds of .45 isn't as bad as the same number rounds as 9mm. Another person I know uses 9mm exclusively between sidearm and rifle. Only need to carry one kind of ammo, that way.
Myself, I can use several, though carry limited amounts of each. I am partial to 9mm and .380. The grips fit my hand. I compensate for the lack of power with ammo type and make my shots count. I also believe in being versatile enough to be able to pick up that dropped or offered .45, AK or other rifle and use it anyway.
I have both but prefer the 9mm because it's much cheaper to shoot. And that translates to more practice. And more practice translates to greater efficiency. Oh, and did I mention 9mm pistols hold more rounds than .45 pistols? I'll take the 9mm any day even if it "allegedly" doesn't have the knockdown power of a .45.
Enjoyed the video! I think this conversation is a nice distraction for when people don't want to contemplate bleeding out from a firefight gone wrong... everyone has guns and ammo but how many people have medical supplies and the knowledge to use them?
I have been telling people this stuff for years but they prefer the Hollywood version.
Our local police in western Ohio is currently for the most part using 45 now. I ask them as I have a few friends on the PD. But, some use 9's etc...
The answer of parts and ammo depends on short term or long term events. Long term, parts and ammo may become very useful as far as having and selection. Both will become scarce, if in fact the population isn't completely decimated. As others will be out in the space competing for the same resources, which includes ammo and parts (spare weapons). Last ones standing with not only functioning firearms AND ammo, has a better chance of not being ruled over by those who do. Of course, history could be completely wrong, but so far that IS the way it has always worked. Governments, lets call them, and other organizations that have armories have parts and ammo stocked for a reason. Just like lords of old had more in their armory then just a sword and armor for just themselves. They in fact had not only a multitude of weapons, but also the craftsmen to produce and maintain what they did have, as well craftsmen to produce and maintain ammo such as arrows. Never considered though Joe that you were preparing for just a short term event. Interesting, not everyday I have to adjust my image / mental profile of somebody so radically.
@@nickx8411 Yeah, now you might actually address the points that I abd Joe actually talked about, though I doubt you can or you would have. That is called a diversion, when you don't address the subject matter presented as I did directly to what Joe had to say, as a means of not addressing what was said. I'm sure Joe is able to address a reply his self, and perhaps even stay on point and address what I said.
If I recall correctly, what Joe said was if you were ever in a situation that required 200 rounds in one firefight (out and about or on the trail), you will probably be dead, though I think that is really stitching it. If somebody actually were to assault your community there is a very good chance that one could use upwards of 200 rounds of ammo and certainly not end up dead. Historically speaking there has been and is all sorts of people still alive that have used that much of ammo in a fire fight, even some cops have come close to it, that are still alive today or died a death from some other cause then being in a fire fight.
Nowhere did Joe say anything about what you suggested by your statement "If you're in a situation where you think you're going to wear out your gun, Pastor is right... your situation is too "hot" and you're likely going to be killed." You completely made that up because you didn't have any better argument. And yet nothing I said have you refuted, because what I said is completely accurate and historically correct, as well correct contemporaneously speaking. As a community / tribe YOU should store parts and have some compatibility in common so those parts actually mean something JUST like other government, NGOs, and organizations do for their armory. And that was what my whole point was, that there may be stiff competition for ammo and weapons out in the space that it isn't something you really want to depend on, though certainly it is a plus if you do find either or any other supplies.
However, that said, you do make a good point about preventive parts replacement, as a part BREAKING in the middle of a fire fight WILL certainly get you killed, and why it is generally one of the recommended reasons to carry as pistol as backup to a rifle.
awesome video again Sir cheers
RIP CURL HERE. SO TRUE PASTOR. You need to learn to be self sufficient and prepare all you can without causing any hardships. Then practice , practice , practice all your skills and form a group of vetted , trusted , likeminded people with a wide range of skills. Then stay under the radar at first until such time it is safer to be out to get a lay of the land and situation and take notes. There will likely be lots of people who didnt make it for what ever reason. There will likely be a lot to gather for a wile. But be aware you wont be the only ones looking. But ammo will likely be one of the items you find as well as guns. Who cares the make or caliber. It’s all valuable in some way. And for just everyday carry i carry anywhere from a 380 to a 45 acp now depending on weather and clothing i am wearing. But if its shtf i would stop worrying as much if the end of my gun shows and would Cary larger 9mm to 45 acp. But a good rule of thumb is for mags is one in the gun chambered and ready and two on your belt no matter what you carry. So that can range from 18 to 60 rds. Ready to go. If you were gearing up to head out on a scouting or patrol outing then i would through 2 to 3 more loaded mags on my vest/body armor. Then is when we get to rifles in this case i carry 200 to 250 (maybe 300) rds. That’s 2 to 3-30 rd mags on the gun with 4 to 5 - 30 rd mags on your vest/ body armor. Along with water ,high energy snack , and normal trauma/first aid , navigation, fire, para cord and basic survival gear for 24 t0 48 hrs. (Very small) just a side note if i Carry a 380 now i always have my go box in the car wich has a full sized pistol and tac rifle and tac shotgun. And since we live in ore i also have a survival 22 rifle and other survival gear in my go box. It never fails we have every year people who get lost or stranded in the mtns and have nothing and a lot of the time it doesn’t end well. I helping with search & rescue has made me aware how a simple go box and some basic knowledge can save lives. So all my kids that earn and reach the age to drive get their own box and as they get older they get upgraded to the legal protection levels with training and practice. Thanks again for your great videos and wise words. More should be listening.
What is better? .45 or 9mm?
Either, as long as you have one of them, and now how to use it.... Effectively.
Pastor me personally out of site out of mined . Not two be seen not two be herd silent is golden GOD Bless