This is a part of a series explaining the (possibly questionable) story choices made in FFX-2. For a deep explanation of how Tidus is even able to come back, see this video: ua-cam.com/video/9TIgy1WF-Eg/v-deo.html
@@MirandaLemons lulu in the songstress outfit oh god i wonder how that would have looked like ( im female discleamer ) maybe gothic lolita mm I like paine a lot but but lulu is waaay better
Most of the time it would be a downgrade, if she learned the jobs of at least one of the party members from the sphere grid. Well, should have been a downgrade for Yuna and Rikku, except they somehow lost all skills outside of those of their default jobs, because new game balance. All the "cool kids" adventuring during the Permanent Calm are using dresspheres, but that presents a problem for Lulu. As a natural mage (a rarity in Spira, most people cast magic via accessories) Lulu is sensitive to spirit things, like a Summoner in that regard -- but cannot surrender herself to the experience the way a Summoner like Yuna, Dona, or Issaru does, which is how Yuna "became" Lenne briefly. I can easily imagine Lulu's interaction with the recorder of the dressphere being a significant factor. If she doesn't get along well with that person, she can't/won't use a dressphere, no matter how useful it is! But it is fun to imagine costume changes, like an all-blue variant of her classic dress for Gun Mage Lulu.
I feel like Lulu would be too protective and motherly over Yuna in X-2, she would’ve never blossomed and went on the same journey. Like Lulu would’ve never let Yuna and Rikku steal dresspheres and sneak into Leblancs
I just find it weird that Paine is even there at all. Not saying that she can't be, just wish she was introduced better into the group or seen more of the creation of the group leading up to her introduction. I'm pretty sure the story wouldn't change much even if Paine wasn't even part of the Crimson squad. I would of preferred a different approach with how Paine fits in the group. Seeing as she was a solider, I think it would make more sense if Paine was the one who taught the group how to fight more effectively. Paine would teach Rikku to use the daggers seeing Rikku has experience fighting up close but with a more effective weapon and teach Yuna to shoot as she's mostly fought from a distant. Paine could work as a strong mentor role for Yuna.
That is so good, it should be canon: Paine teaching the others how to fight tactically. I do wonder about the original dressphere: is the sphere grid not helping them in that particular case? I also wonder what Yuna's emotional journey must have been like to not summon anymore. She certainly could have been a white mage as her original dressphere. 🤔
I think there was also that they need a default "warrior" class. can't imagine Lulu or even Yuna or Rikku being one. i just think it might be better if they gave Payne a completely different look from Lulu, cos the first time I saw Payne, I was like, "what? Lulu with shorter hair? okay, but wait, what happened to those..." for example, if they want her to be "mysterious", could have make her wearing mask, some kind of a "ninja girl". with her actual face could only be seen if you dress her in certain dressphere.
Cool video! I always thought paine was cool but never really got attached I don't think (hard to speak for my much younger self though. Funny story: one year asking for gifts from santa, I got very imaginative! I asked for a yuna floral fallal figure 😅 my parents got me a paine one, bless their hearts.
Just because the two characters wear a lot of black and belts, it does not signify they are "goth". Pagans of the old wore lots of belts that were symbolic in a few ways. Black also is a neutral color (being absent of color) and they wore black being not flashy, or chose to stand out. Also, Lulu was the "black mage" of the group, and her colors and belts signified to others throughout the land what her class was in Spira. (like in most Final Fantasy games) As much as I would have loved seeing Lulu with Riku and Yuna, it was also a wise decision to exclude her as she would have wanted Yuna to find her self on her own path, but her protectiveness from their pilgrimage would have overshadowed her presence. Also, Lulu experienced a lot of death in all the pilgrimages she took part in as a guardian and would have wanted to settle down as it was her personality as well as Wakka. Paine's past was not as colorful, or strong as it could have been, but was enough to show why she lost her smile. The sphere of her recording her friends of the Crimson Squad was short, yet powerful too when you listen to each of them talk, then when they all got close together for a group shot she was smiling, even laughing. Later at some point her captain shot her, and she did not know why...this lead to her losing her smile and trust in others as her own captain and friend broke that trust (unknowingly to him at the time) and it took a long time for her to finally open her heart to her new friends, Riku and Yuna. Her backstory is actually much more stronger than people give credit for. Lulu experienced losing her confidence as a guardian not being able to protect her Summoner due to being too inexperienced at the time which took a long time for her to regain and build her new confidence - her friends in their group helped her find that confidence she had all along inside herself. Paine lost her ability to trust after she felt betrayed by her closest friend and captain. If a best friend could do that to you, anyone can do that - in her mind. She learned from Yuna and Riku that their strength is through trust and friendship, similar to what she had before and after hunting for more spheres and helping others just because, she learned that Yuna and Riku were genuinely good hearted people she could trust, and did trust and finally opened her heart to them. She would later find out her captain was not who shot her, but was instead taken over by..... I'm giving too much info and am stopping now in case others who watch the video have not played the game yet, and if they haven't they really should because both FF X and FF X-2 are incredible games and was where the voice acting first started in the FF game franchise! I'm also auditioning for FF X-3 and hoping I nail the role I am voicing for. Would be a nice change from doing roles on television and FF has a special place in my heart back in 2003 when I first played it while on holiday in Maine at the campground.
Thank you for these insights. ☺️ Paine's losses doesn't have the same impact probably partially because she has nowhere near the screentime that Lulu did in FFX. Same with Gippal, Nooj, and Baralai. While they can establish they had a bond that was shattered, it was hard to feel close to any of them. Not like going through the harrowing pilgrimage together. Also interesting is we didn't see Lulu orphaned, Lady Ginnem or Chappu's death, and yet I understand Lulu's hurt, yet Paine has her trauma *shown* and it is less impactful. 🤔
@@MirandaLemons thats because most are too busy focusing on paine being a Lulu replacement to care about bonding with her. I had no problem bonding with any of the characters of X-2 but thats because i dont look at them as being replicas or replacements for other FF characters i see them like people. Sharing similarities while still being unique. My biggest problem woth X-2 unlike most who focus on petty stuff like characters being similar (which most focused on from day of release and why X-2 took so long to be accepted by the majority of FF fans) was that it was made so short because they wanted to make the dress spheres look cool. They could have done so much more with the game than they did. X-2 being made at the same time as 11 and 12 and while Squaresoft was merging with Enix made it suffer greatly.They rushed its development and that showed in the short story that had the potential to be souch more than it became, potential theyd never have lost sight of if they hadn't overwhelmed themselves with so much drama.
Wow, this was an awesome analysis. I played through this game back in the Army when it first came out. I actually learned new stuff here though, and that's not often the case with anything Final Fantasy. Hat's off to you, Guru!
Lulu would have been awesome in X2 for many of the same reasons Rikku is. Yuna, Rikku, and Lulu all have history together and already have good chemistry lol. I don't necessarily hate Paine I just feel like she is there to fill a third slot for the team and never forms a genuine or fun friendship with Yuna and Rikku.
Very interesting analysis! I had the Japanese version of FFX-2 so I had no idea how the story was progressing or growth of the characters ahaha. I am an absolute FFX junkie though having replayed it multiple times, and I gotta say that Lulu > Paine all the way. I'll go further and say FFX > FFX-2 all the way!! I think internally this must be the case too because when Yuna is brought back for various games (Dissidia 012 and NT, Final Fantasy World etc.) it's always Summoner Yuna, VS Lightning who appears in her FFXIII-3 version in the same games (Dissidia NT, Final Fantasy World). I love how Lulu is so cold and upfront, but treats Yuna like a delicate flower. It helps make Lulu feel like so much more of a developed character because we get to see what's important to her. I also think just the dynamic of the FFX party in general is really refreshing to watch. I can't remember another game off the top of my head where the party characters care so much for one of the main protagonists. I loved seeing everyone being overprotective of Yuna and how it was a cycle of selflessness; Yuna is determined to sacrifice herself for Spira and in return, her guardians literally ready to risk their lives for her. Seeing how they have such a deep connection with her makes it even more emotional. Sorry for the long comment, I just love FFX so much. 😅
I loved reading your entire comment. I truly do feel that unshakable bond the party had to Yuna in the face of death. Certainly religious parallels, too -- her Christ-like pilgrimage to end death via death. And I love FFX so much, too. Will never get over it.
Pain was definitely more of a fit for this game. Lulu is great. But idk how her personality would have worked in this game. Cause as you said this game is mostly about Pain. Imagine the game and all its elements tied to Lulu instead.
Good point. The story would have to be different. Or the events are not personally tied to any of the three girls. It would be cool if Yuna had some backstory with the three super powers already. I would think she would considering how famous she was. Is it believable how she got to know them?
@@MirandaLemons Yes definitely. That celebrity status. This is why they had to introduce Pain. I think by having a new protagonist in the game it adds greater mystery to an already familiar scene. We know yuna and rikku by this point. Weve seen Spira. If itd been Lulu, idk if the story would have felt as fresh and new. Granted Pain isnt the only new character but still.
Yuna her personality also didn't worked. So the developer changed her. So it Doesn't make any sense to cut lulu since they could change her like they did with yuna
I really liked the concept of FFX-2 being about Yuna having to find her new identity and role in life after defeating Sin, and think Lulu could have played in to that better since Lulu went through so much loss and also needed to rediscover herself; they likely trauma bonded and would have understood each other in a way that Paine couldn’t. I would’ve loved to see her arc continue as the counterpoint to FFX-2’s lighthearted approach, because she would probably have the deep convos with Yuna about moving on from pain and loss, and how to find happiness and purpose after Sin. Lulu lost her parents, Lady Ginnem, and Chappu to Sin- I’m sure her ending could’ve been more fleshed out than making her pregnant and with Wakka. I think the real reason they didn’t have her as the 3rd Gullwing is that it wouldn’t have been a fair contest for Rikku and Yuna in the hot springs scene- it’d be hard for Rikku to say that Yuna’s got it going when Lulu is right there.😂😂
Because of their similarities, I like to imagine Lulu and Paine are related in some way and they don't know it. I am pretty sure the 2 of them are both even the only people in the world with red eyes. I think the part of me that wants Lulu in place of Paine is satisfied with thinking that.
Also consider that after repeated decimations by Sin over 1000 years, Spira's gene pool is probably getting a bit thin. Of those who have survived, everybody's probably related to everybody else on the planet by now...
I really love Lulu so much lol.. beside Quistis for sure lol. I do the Thunder game 200 times just for getting Lulu's Celestial Weapon. It was so hard tho..
I was personally happy to see Lulu retire from her adventuring days, able to trust that Yuna would be alright traveling off on her own to find herself. It was satisfying to see Lulu healed from her childhood traumas and able to be vulnerable with her loved ones. As of Pain... she never felt like a Lulu-clone, you hit the nail on the head comparing her to Auron. I hadn't thought of it that way before, but damn ^^
Speaking of Lulu... there's a question that has been killing me since 2001... What kind of shoes does she wear? ... No, I'm serious... we never see her feet. Even when she jumps of the ship by the end of the game!
Would have been fun to see yuna and rikku in Chinatown knock off versions of Lulu's signature haute couture. The black mage dresssphere would have no choice but to be modeled after Lulu's dress
I always love to see any discussion/thoughts about FF. I'm very surprised anyone could link Lulu and Paine... What Because they wear black and are aloof.... What so all goths are the same!.. wow.. just wow...
I don't think it is quite so simple. The character Paine was created for FFX-2 and she doesn't have much depth. The question is -- why not use a third girl who is already established in FFX who is already beloved and has report with Yuna and Rikku? That's why I have heard people see Paine as a stand-in for Lulu.
Great video! thank you algorithm for recommending me your channel! another girl who's just obsessed with the X series as I am? Yes please. I have almost daily conversations with my bf about all the games 😂
I love Paines character, I feel like a lot of people miss out on some of her story line stuff or don't get that far in the game to see her develop more. I like how mysterious she is and that she played the "Auron" of the group. Always loved how androgynous her character designs were, they had to meet in the middle for all the dresspheres. I think Lulu would have looked out of place and it would have been much harder to make her "fit" with the vibe of X-2 since she already has her character so set in stone. When we find out more about Paine, she really isn't as tough as she portrays herself.
All great points! If you love talking about FFX, you would love the community in the Discord (link in the description). The community there love having conversations and it's respectful and positive. ☺️ You seem like you'd belong! Also, same to talking constantly to my BF about FFX. I now have an outlet, so I don't have to bother him!
Honestly that opening was so iconic, I loved it - and the little card from Persona 3 as well! It’s so interesting to hear what the directors were aiming for. As much as I like both Lulu and Paine I do agree that Lulu would have brought a different vibe to the plot and story, so a new wild card character was probably the better fit overall, especially when working in mysteries in the plot that we don’t know about at the start.
@@MirandaLemons Let’s just say having really big boobs makes it hard to exercise and fit into clothes , so they made an avatar of Lulu so she could still play with Yuna.
I played X-2 first so I didn’t know who Lulu was and when I met her she was okay. So I started growing a bond with Paine. Once I played X I actually despised Lulu for the way she treated Tidus and everyone around her. I understood why but I just couldn’t handle her attitude. I actually had to force myself to raise her affection to get her cutscenes because I would always get Rikku’s scenes.
I understand some points. others don't make any sense. yuna her character has developed within 2 years in a direction that is 1000% different. with lulu this was apparently not possible for the developers. imposing the life of a housewife on her was probably the easier decision. a faulty one.
Paine is my favorite character, in ffx 2. Lu was my fav in x and without pain i don't think I would have forgiven them for taking Lu away. Of course the fact that I head cannon her as secretly Auron's daughter doesn't hurt anything either. After all her clothes may look like Lu's, but Paine physically looks more like Auron.
I feel like Square Enix could have done so much more with Paine, she lacks her own identity. My perspective is Paine is just a downgraded, boring and unimaginative reskin of Lulu… If they didn’t want Lulu in the main story for X-2, then why bring in some carbon copy of her? That’s what I don’t understand. Final Fantasy X set the bar too high in my opinion, I fell in love with all the characters and the story. To see Lulu go through so much in X and be a valuable asset only to not join Yuna for her story was heartbreaking. Note: I am only 25% done with X-2 and I just finished chapter 1 today, so perhaps there’s still time for her to grow on me. So far I’m just not sure why she’s even in my party, it’s like having a cardboard cutout just in the background that doesn’t say or do anything
So insightful for playing only a quarter of the game. FFX set the bar VERY high, but I think readjusting the bar for FFX-2 is essential for enjoying it.
I do agree that paines character could have been more fleshed out. Until watching your review I did not notice the many similarities to Auron. Makes me want to start playing final fantasy X and x 2 again
I think if wakka were more likeable by the end, more people would have been happy for lulu. Also, i think if they wanted to, the sequel could have followed 2 or 3 different groups and the whole vegna gun shuyin lemme thing could have been shorter....idk
Unrelated, I love this game, even tho it has mixed reviews, final fantasy Charlie's Angels is amazing, you get to kick ass with 3 hot girls it's a man's dream come true lol
Paine is just a character that honestly came out of nowhere, people won't remember her the same way they remember Lulu and is one of the weakest characters background wise
Lulu was not a fit for X2. It would nave been forced and not authentic. And her RBF was not something I like. She's the quintessential modern chick and best in retirement.
My Headcanon: Paine is Auron’s daughter. In Final fantasy 10, it was mentioned in a cutscene that Auron was disgraced due to him getting a nun pregnant. Yuna’s father specifically wanted a group that was outcast from Yevon due to their hypocrisy. I figure Paige’s mother was shunned by Yevon because of it, and maybe she passed early, due to a Fiend assault? Paine wouldn’t have fond memories of Yevon after that, so joined the Crusaders instead of Yevon proper. I figure she had to be good, as they trusted her to stay alive through the final Elite Crimson Guard exercise that went so horribly wrong…
X-2 was all about marketing. It was blatantly pandering to a teen J-pop audience, and 20-something Lulu was too old for that equasion. The whole game's series of subplots revolved around "teens need to rule the world because they'll do a better job than the old people did." This game was released in an age when Square felt its original audience was getting too old, so it was time to cut them loose for "today's teens" (in a mid-00s sense). That's why this game annoys me. You never pander to an audience, and just focus on telling a good story. X-2 was all about teen-pandering.
The issue with Pain is she is just a bland copy of Lulu. They could have made their female Cloud wear something other than black to separate her from Lulu. As of now she's just a poor copy cat.
I'm actually replaying FFX and X-2 at the moment, and Lulu is my favorite character so I had to click on seeing this and know why. ~ But it immediately made sense as to why when I thought about it. Yuna had this transformation and lost her summoning, learned how to fight and adventure differently and be versatile. Lulu becoming more versatile in battle just doesn't register? She's almost an untouchable force in black magic, it's hard to see and envision her in anything more melee and physical or masculine as you mentioned which would come in some dress spheres. But also it rose a question for me . . . How old is Lulu? Because Wakka is 23 in the original FFX ( younger than I expected ) and 2 years have passed . . . But Lulu has already been a guardian 3 times by FFX. So if each calm is 10 yrs . . . how does that work? Even if Lulu was traveling around as a guardian like Pacce ( which I doubt due to it only being from the boy being Isaaru's sibling ) it would put her in her 40's which I don't think is what they envisioned. An oversight?
Lulu never was successful in any of her pilgrimages, so there was never a calm with Lulu. I don't think we know the timeline, but it all could have been within months or years. There has only been a few High Summoners in the 1000 years (I think 4?). They are all in the temples.
@@MirandaLemons Oh wow, yeah that didn't even occur to me to think about. I suppose that does make sense as well taking into account the high summoners. It's amazing that people hadn't given up though given there had been so few to defeat Sin, what with Sin only staying away for 10 yrs. Perhaps he wasn't as ACTIVE in destroying before, but with the damage he caused just in Yuna's pilgrimage (probably also having to do with urging Tidus to stop him) it seems insane they'd made it for 960 yrs of attacks like that. Anyway thanks for the reply. ~
![FAST AP Grinding Strategy [FFX-2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ckmwPgq7yBU/mqdefault.jpg)
This is a part of a series explaining the (possibly questionable) story choices made in FFX-2.
For a deep explanation of how Tidus is even able to come back, see this video: ua-cam.com/video/9TIgy1WF-Eg/v-deo.html
Imagine Lulu with a garment grid and using dressphere's I can't 😂
A lot of people would love to see it!
HNNNNNNNG
@@MirandaLemons lulu in the songstress outfit oh god i wonder how that would have looked like ( im female discleamer ) maybe gothic lolita mm
I like paine a lot but but lulu is waaay better
Most of the time it would be a downgrade, if she learned the jobs of at least one of the party members from the sphere grid. Well, should have been a downgrade for Yuna and Rikku, except they somehow lost all skills outside of those of their default jobs, because new game balance. All the "cool kids" adventuring during the Permanent Calm are using dresspheres, but that presents a problem for Lulu. As a natural mage (a rarity in Spira, most people cast magic via accessories) Lulu is sensitive to spirit things, like a Summoner in that regard -- but cannot surrender herself to the experience the way a Summoner like Yuna, Dona, or Issaru does, which is how Yuna "became" Lenne briefly. I can easily imagine Lulu's interaction with the recorder of the dressphere being a significant factor. If she doesn't get along well with that person, she can't/won't use a dressphere, no matter how useful it is! But it is fun to imagine costume changes, like an all-blue variant of her classic dress for Gun Mage Lulu.
I would have loved that
I feel like Lulu would be too protective and motherly over Yuna in X-2, she would’ve never blossomed and went on the same journey. Like Lulu would’ve never let Yuna and Rikku steal dresspheres and sneak into Leblancs
So true! That was pretty dangerous. 🤭
I just find it weird that Paine is even there at all. Not saying that she can't be, just wish she was introduced better into the group or seen more of the creation of the group leading up to her introduction. I'm pretty sure the story wouldn't change much even if Paine wasn't even part of the Crimson squad. I would of preferred a different approach with how Paine fits in the group. Seeing as she was a solider, I think it would make more sense if Paine was the one who taught the group how to fight more effectively. Paine would teach Rikku to use the daggers seeing Rikku has experience fighting up close but with a more effective weapon and teach Yuna to shoot as she's mostly fought from a distant. Paine could work as a strong mentor role for Yuna.
That is so good, it should be canon: Paine teaching the others how to fight tactically. I do wonder about the original dressphere: is the sphere grid not helping them in that particular case?
I also wonder what Yuna's emotional journey must have been like to not summon anymore. She certainly could have been a white mage as her original dressphere. 🤔
Omg the FULL PAPER GUides...THE nostalgia destroyed me this day😭😭🥺
I love them! I got the guides from my local used game store, five dollars each. ♥️
I think there was also that they need a default "warrior" class. can't imagine Lulu or even Yuna or Rikku being one. i just think it might be better if they gave Payne a completely different look from Lulu, cos the first time I saw Payne, I was like, "what? Lulu with shorter hair? okay, but wait, what happened to those..."
for example, if they want her to be "mysterious", could have make her wearing mask, some kind of a "ninja girl". with her actual face could only be seen if you dress her in certain dressphere.
This made me want to play FFX to learn more about Lulu... She seems cool.
Thanks so much, Micah! Lulu is a fan favorite.
Cool video! I always thought paine was cool but never really got attached I don't think (hard to speak for my much younger self though. Funny story: one year asking for gifts from santa, I got very imaginative! I asked for a yuna floral fallal figure 😅 my parents got me a paine one, bless their hearts.
I had no idea the Floral Fallal figure existed. 🤯 Your parents were good sports. ☺️
So I don't think it did. I just wanted santa to make it for me 😂😂😂😂😂
@@nicolejudge5279 That's even funnier! I looked it up and it really does exist and not too expensive.
It's not too late!
no lulu got a baby so she needed to look after the child
True, but only because the writers chose for her to have a baby instead. They could just have plausibly chosen for her to be the third Gullwing.
Just because the two characters wear a lot of black and belts, it does not signify they are "goth". Pagans of the old wore lots of belts that were symbolic in a few ways. Black also is a neutral color (being absent of color) and they wore black being not flashy, or chose to stand out. Also, Lulu was the "black mage" of the group, and her colors and belts signified to others throughout the land what her class was in Spira. (like in most Final Fantasy games)
As much as I would have loved seeing Lulu with Riku and Yuna, it was also a wise decision to exclude her as she would have wanted Yuna to find her self on her own path, but her protectiveness from their pilgrimage would have overshadowed her presence. Also, Lulu experienced a lot of death in all the pilgrimages she took part in as a guardian and would have wanted to settle down as it was her personality as well as Wakka.
Paine's past was not as colorful, or strong as it could have been, but was enough to show why she lost her smile. The sphere of her recording her friends of the Crimson Squad was short, yet powerful too when you listen to each of them talk, then when they all got close together for a group shot she was smiling, even laughing. Later at some point her captain shot her, and she did not know why...this lead to her losing her smile and trust in others as her own captain and friend broke that trust (unknowingly to him at the time) and it took a long time for her to finally open her heart to her new friends, Riku and Yuna. Her backstory is actually much more stronger than people give credit for.
Lulu experienced losing her confidence as a guardian not being able to protect her Summoner due to being too inexperienced at the time which took a long time for her to regain and build her new confidence - her friends in their group helped her find that confidence she had all along inside herself.
Paine lost her ability to trust after she felt betrayed by her closest friend and captain. If a best friend could do that to you, anyone can do that - in her mind. She learned from Yuna and Riku that their strength is through trust and friendship, similar to what she had before and after hunting for more spheres and helping others just because, she learned that Yuna and Riku were genuinely good hearted people she could trust, and did trust and finally opened her heart to them. She would later find out her captain was not who shot her, but was instead taken over by.....
I'm giving too much info and am stopping now in case others who watch the video have not played the game yet, and if they haven't they really should because both FF X and FF X-2 are incredible games and was where the voice acting first started in the FF game franchise! I'm also auditioning for FF X-3 and hoping I nail the role I am voicing for. Would be a nice change from doing roles on television and FF has a special place in my heart back in 2003 when I first played it while on holiday in Maine at the campground.
Thank you for these insights. ☺️
Paine's losses doesn't have the same impact probably partially because she has nowhere near the screentime that Lulu did in FFX. Same with Gippal, Nooj, and Baralai. While they can establish they had a bond that was shattered, it was hard to feel close to any of them. Not like going through the harrowing pilgrimage together.
Also interesting is we didn't see Lulu orphaned, Lady Ginnem or Chappu's death, and yet I understand Lulu's hurt, yet Paine has her trauma *shown* and it is less impactful. 🤔
@@MirandaLemons thats because most are too busy focusing on paine being a Lulu replacement to care about bonding with her.
I had no problem bonding with any of the characters of X-2 but thats because i dont look at them as being replicas or replacements for other FF characters i see them like people. Sharing similarities while still being unique.
My biggest problem woth X-2 unlike most who focus on petty stuff like characters being similar (which most focused on from day of release and why X-2 took so long to be accepted by the majority of FF fans) was that it was made so short because they wanted to make the dress spheres look cool. They could have done so much more with the game than they did. X-2 being made at the same time as 11 and 12 and while Squaresoft was merging with Enix made it suffer greatly.They rushed its development and that showed in the short story that had the potential to be souch more than it became, potential theyd never have lost sight of if they hadn't overwhelmed themselves with so much drama.
@@SelphieTheNutter I agree that rushed development explains most flaws in this game.
Wow, this was an awesome analysis. I played through this game back in the Army when it first came out. I actually learned new stuff here though, and that's not often the case with anything Final Fantasy. Hat's off to you, Guru!
Lulu would have been awesome in X2 for many of the same reasons Rikku is. Yuna, Rikku, and Lulu all have history together and already have good chemistry lol. I don't necessarily hate Paine I just feel like she is there to fill a third slot for the team and never forms a genuine or fun friendship with Yuna and Rikku.
Very interesting analysis! I had the Japanese version of FFX-2 so I had no idea how the story was progressing or growth of the characters ahaha. I am an absolute FFX junkie though having replayed it multiple times, and I gotta say that Lulu > Paine all the way. I'll go further and say FFX > FFX-2 all the way!! I think internally this must be the case too because when Yuna is brought back for various games (Dissidia 012 and NT, Final Fantasy World etc.) it's always Summoner Yuna, VS Lightning who appears in her FFXIII-3 version in the same games (Dissidia NT, Final Fantasy World).
I love how Lulu is so cold and upfront, but treats Yuna like a delicate flower. It helps make Lulu feel like so much more of a developed character because we get to see what's important to her. I also think just the dynamic of the FFX party in general is really refreshing to watch. I can't remember another game off the top of my head where the party characters care so much for one of the main protagonists. I loved seeing everyone being overprotective of Yuna and how it was a cycle of selflessness; Yuna is determined to sacrifice herself for Spira and in return, her guardians literally ready to risk their lives for her. Seeing how they have such a deep connection with her makes it even more emotional.
Sorry for the long comment, I just love FFX so much. 😅
I loved reading your entire comment. I truly do feel that unshakable bond the party had to Yuna in the face of death. Certainly religious parallels, too -- her Christ-like pilgrimage to end death via death.
And I love FFX so much, too. Will never get over it.
@@MirandaLemons I love that you mention Christ, absolutely agree!
I like the way how you think and your hypothesis and then make it a simple conclusion about Lulu and Paine
Pain was definitely more of a fit for this game. Lulu is great. But idk how her personality would have worked in this game. Cause as you said this game is mostly about Pain. Imagine the game and all its elements tied to Lulu instead.
Good point. The story would have to be different. Or the events are not personally tied to any of the three girls.
It would be cool if Yuna had some backstory with the three super powers already. I would think she would considering how famous she was. Is it believable how she got to know them?
@@MirandaLemons Yes definitely. That celebrity status. This is why they had to introduce Pain. I think by having a new protagonist in the game it adds greater mystery to an already familiar scene. We know yuna and rikku by this point. Weve seen Spira. If itd been Lulu, idk if the story would have felt as fresh and new. Granted Pain isnt the only new character but still.
@@JovianX All good points!
Yuna her personality also didn't worked. So the developer changed her. So it Doesn't make any sense to cut lulu since they could change her like they did with yuna
@@n.l.5954 So true! It's already fan fiction; might as well give the people what they want. 😁
Just found your channel and love it already
Thank you so much! Always open to topic suggestions. ☺️
I’m so happy I found this channel ! Ff10-2 is my favourite game, it really means a lot to me x
This warms my heart. Thank you so much!
I really liked the concept of FFX-2 being about Yuna having to find her new identity and role in life after defeating Sin, and think Lulu could have played in to that better since Lulu went through so much loss and also needed to rediscover herself; they likely trauma bonded and would have understood each other in a way that Paine couldn’t. I would’ve loved to see her arc continue as the counterpoint to FFX-2’s lighthearted approach, because she would probably have the deep convos with Yuna about moving on from pain and loss, and how to find happiness and purpose after Sin. Lulu lost her parents, Lady Ginnem, and Chappu to Sin- I’m sure her ending could’ve been more fleshed out than making her pregnant and with Wakka.
I think the real reason they didn’t have her as the 3rd Gullwing is that it wouldn’t have been a fair contest for Rikku and Yuna in the hot springs scene- it’d be hard for Rikku to say that Yuna’s got it going when Lulu is right there.😂😂
Because of their similarities, I like to imagine Lulu and Paine are related in some way and they don't know it. I am pretty sure the 2 of them are both even the only people in the world with red eyes. I think the part of me that wants Lulu in place of Paine is satisfied with thinking that.
The red eyes! 🤯 That's a good insight.
Also consider that after repeated decimations by Sin over 1000 years, Spira's gene pool is probably getting a bit thin. Of those who have survived, everybody's probably related to everybody else on the planet by now...
I really love Lulu so much lol.. beside Quistis for sure lol. I do the Thunder game 200 times just for getting Lulu's Celestial Weapon. It was so hard tho..
But anyway, I am glad Lulu didn't join FFX-2 because i think it will make her crown drops. I don't know.
We still ride for Paine in 2023
I was personally happy to see Lulu retire from her adventuring days, able to trust that Yuna would be alright traveling off on her own to find herself. It was satisfying to see Lulu healed from her childhood traumas and able to be vulnerable with her loved ones. As of Pain... she never felt like a Lulu-clone, you hit the nail on the head comparing her to Auron. I hadn't thought of it that way before, but damn ^^
I like Paine. She reminds me of me
Thanks for this video sis!!
You got it. 👍
@@MirandaLemons I'm part of your family now so I will be getting all your notifications!
I feel so belong in this channel! 💖💖💖💖
I'm so glad! Thank you and always welcome in the Discord server (link in the description).
Speaking of Lulu... there's a question that has been killing me since 2001...
What kind of shoes does she wear?
...
No, I'm serious... we never see her feet. Even when she jumps of the ship by the end of the game!
This question may never have an answer. 😂
Would have been fun to see yuna and rikku in Chinatown knock off versions of Lulu's signature haute couture. The black mage dresssphere would have no choice but to be modeled after Lulu's dress
Such an amazing thought! I'm sure EVERYONE would have loved to see that.
Hey Miranda i love your videos ff nice work hello from Brasil 😄
Thanks, Jonatas! I love that you've been here since video one.
I started streaming on UA-cam Wednesdays and Fridays. Hope to catch you in a stream. ☺️
I always love to see any discussion/thoughts about FF.
I'm very surprised anyone could link Lulu and Paine... What Because they wear black and are aloof.... What so all goths are the same!.. wow.. just wow...
I don't think it is quite so simple. The character Paine was created for FFX-2 and she doesn't have much depth. The question is -- why not use a third girl who is already established in FFX who is already beloved and has report with Yuna and Rikku? That's why I have heard people see Paine as a stand-in for Lulu.
Great video! thank you algorithm for recommending me your channel! another girl who's just obsessed with the X series as I am? Yes please. I have almost daily conversations with my bf about all the games 😂
I love Paines character, I feel like a lot of people miss out on some of her story line stuff or don't get that far in the game to see her develop more. I like how mysterious she is and that she played the "Auron" of the group. Always loved how androgynous her character designs were, they had to meet in the middle for all the dresspheres. I think Lulu would have looked out of place and it would have been much harder to make her "fit" with the vibe of X-2 since she already has her character so set in stone. When we find out more about Paine, she really isn't as tough as she portrays herself.
All great points! If you love talking about FFX, you would love the community in the Discord (link in the description). The community there love having conversations and it's respectful and positive. ☺️ You seem like you'd belong!
Also, same to talking constantly to my BF about FFX. I now have an outlet, so I don't have to bother him!
The third Gullwing should have been Shelinda!
That's perfect!
Honestly that opening was so iconic, I loved it - and the little card from Persona 3 as well!
It’s so interesting to hear what the directors were aiming for. As much as I like both Lulu and Paine I do agree that Lulu would have brought a different vibe to the plot and story, so a new wild card character was probably the better fit overall, especially when working in mysteries in the plot that we don’t know about at the start.
I agree!
The Persona Tarot deck is the same design from Persona 3, 4, and 5. You're the first in the comments to point it out!
Well lulu cant jump in her normal outfit so that may be a factor
What do you mean? You just saw her jump in my intro. 😂
Rikku and Yuna's outfits changed. I imagine Lulu would get a similar treatment..
I think she is Lulu with a breast reduction because I had one myself. They even both have red eyes.
Makes perfect sense. The imposter is in Besaid.
@@MirandaLemons Let’s just say having really big boobs makes it hard to exercise and fit into clothes , so they made an avatar of Lulu so she could still play with Yuna.
I played X-2 first so I didn’t know who Lulu was and when I met her she was okay. So I started growing a bond with Paine. Once I played X I actually despised Lulu for the way she treated Tidus and everyone around her. I understood why but I just couldn’t handle her attitude. I actually had to force myself to raise her affection to get her cutscenes because I would always get Rikku’s scenes.
I understand some points. others don't make any sense. yuna her character has developed within 2 years in a direction that is 1000% different. with lulu this was apparently not possible for the developers. imposing the life of a housewife on her was probably the easier decision. a faulty one.
Paine is my favorite character, in ffx 2. Lu was my fav in x and without pain i don't think I would have forgiven them for taking Lu away.
Of course the fact that I head cannon her as secretly Auron's daughter doesn't hurt anything either. After all her clothes may look like Lu's, but Paine physically looks more like Auron.
I feel like Square Enix could have done so much more with Paine, she lacks her own identity. My perspective is Paine is just a downgraded, boring and unimaginative reskin of Lulu… If they didn’t want Lulu in the main story for X-2, then why bring in some carbon copy of her? That’s what I don’t understand.
Final Fantasy X set the bar too high in my opinion, I fell in love with all the characters and the story. To see Lulu go through so much in X and be a valuable asset only to not join Yuna for her story was heartbreaking.
Note: I am only 25% done with X-2 and I just finished chapter 1 today, so perhaps there’s still time for her to grow on me. So far I’m just not sure why she’s even in my party, it’s like having a cardboard cutout just in the background that doesn’t say or do anything
So insightful for playing only a quarter of the game. FFX set the bar VERY high, but I think readjusting the bar for FFX-2 is essential for enjoying it.
Nice kitchen!
Thank you!
Lulu was pregnant with Chapus baby and waka had to raise it.
This is true, though Lulu is a fictional character and the creators of FFX could have made different choices with her.
I do agree that paines character could have been more fleshed out. Until watching your review I did not notice the many similarities to Auron. Makes me want to start playing final fantasy X and x 2 again
I think if wakka were more likeable by the end, more people would have been happy for lulu. Also, i think if they wanted to, the sequel could have followed 2 or 3 different groups and the whole vegna gun shuyin lemme thing could have been shorter....idk
I actually love Paine and she is my favorite character in FFx-2
Unrelated, I love this game, even tho it has mixed reviews, final fantasy Charlie's Angels is amazing, you get to kick ass with 3 hot girls it's a man's dream come true lol
Paine is just a character that honestly came out of nowhere, people won't remember her the same way they remember Lulu and is one of the weakest characters background wise
It's true. Her character doesn't have as much backstory as the others.
I would have loved if paine was related to auron in some way
Um, stomping on her artwork was a bit much...
Yes! 😂
They look so alike
They do! The nose. The pouty lips. The stern eyebrows. 😵
Lulu was not a fit for X2. It would nave been forced and not authentic. And her RBF was not something I like. She's the quintessential modern chick and best in retirement.
Ooo. Spicy. 🌶️
I think Lulu would fit more than Paine personally, but I still like Paine a little she just seems like she was entirely made to fill a character slot.
My Headcanon: Paine is Auron’s daughter. In Final fantasy 10, it was mentioned in a cutscene that Auron was disgraced due to him getting a nun pregnant.
Yuna’s father specifically wanted a group that was outcast from Yevon due to their hypocrisy. I figure Paige’s mother was shunned by Yevon because of it, and maybe she passed early, due to a Fiend assault? Paine wouldn’t have fond memories of Yevon after that, so joined the Crusaders instead of Yevon proper. I figure she had to be good, as they trusted her to stay alive through the final Elite Crimson Guard exercise that went so horribly wrong…
That is so cool! In what cutscene did you get the nun and Auron?
X-2 was all about marketing. It was blatantly pandering to a teen J-pop audience, and 20-something Lulu was too old for that equasion. The whole game's series of subplots revolved around "teens need to rule the world because they'll do a better job than the old people did." This game was released in an age when Square felt its original audience was getting too old, so it was time to cut them loose for "today's teens" (in a mid-00s sense). That's why this game annoys me. You never pander to an audience, and just focus on telling a good story. X-2 was all about teen-pandering.
Very fascinating take!
She wasn't in FFX 2 cuz she was pregnant at the time🙄
That is true, although they decided to write Lulu in as being pregnant. 😊
Paine was...a terrible character. I'm sorry to those who liked her, but I've always felt she was a terrible rip off of Lulu and Auron.
Can't say you're wrong. 🤷♀️😁
Paine is so off and cringe.
Paine is no Auron or Lulu!
The issue with Pain is she is just a bland copy of Lulu. They could have made their female Cloud wear something other than black to separate her from Lulu. As of now she's just a poor copy cat.
Such a missed opportunity Pain sucks compared to Lulu
Pain was such a boring character
She is! It becomes so apparent in The Last Mission, when the girls have nothing to say to Paine except ask how Gippal, Nooj, and Baralai are doing. 😂
I'm actually replaying FFX and X-2 at the moment, and Lulu is my favorite character so I had to click on seeing this and know why. ~
But it immediately made sense as to why when I thought about it. Yuna had this transformation and lost her summoning, learned how to fight and adventure differently and be versatile. Lulu becoming more versatile in battle just doesn't register? She's almost an untouchable force in black magic, it's hard to see and envision her in anything more melee and physical or masculine as you mentioned which would come in some dress spheres.
But also it rose a question for me . . .
How old is Lulu? Because Wakka is 23 in the original FFX ( younger than I expected ) and 2 years have passed . . .
But Lulu has already been a guardian 3 times by FFX. So if each calm is 10 yrs . . . how does that work?
Even if Lulu was traveling around as a guardian like Pacce ( which I doubt due to it only being from the boy being Isaaru's sibling ) it would put her in her 40's which I don't think is what they envisioned. An oversight?
Lulu never was successful in any of her pilgrimages, so there was never a calm with Lulu. I don't think we know the timeline, but it all could have been within months or years.
There has only been a few High Summoners in the 1000 years (I think 4?). They are all in the temples.
@@MirandaLemons Oh wow, yeah that didn't even occur to me to think about. I suppose that does make sense as well taking into account the high summoners.
It's amazing that people hadn't given up though given there had been so few to defeat Sin, what with Sin only staying away for 10 yrs.
Perhaps he wasn't as ACTIVE in destroying before, but with the damage he caused just in Yuna's pilgrimage (probably also having to do with urging Tidus to stop him) it seems insane they'd made it for 960 yrs of attacks like that.
Anyway thanks for the reply. ~