Do you have any simulations of Operation Sea Lion? S a Brit I'm curious to see if any military modern or historical could successfully invade the UK via the sea.
could "any" military? of course - in 1943-1944, it's likely the US could have invaded. This would assume that the US had not provided weapons or supplies to the UK, that the UK navy had been defeated, etc. This then would likely assume that the US and Germany were allies. Alternatively, some version of the UK having joined the Axis might have been considered - but then one has to ask, would German forces be included in the scenario? Additionally, I don't doubt that a modern military (large enough) could have landed on the UK. Probably wouldn't have to be that large either, if sufficient SAMs are available to defend the beachheads and sufficient anti-ship weapons are available to fend off the British navy (this wouldn't be difficult at all).
@@grimreapersYo Cap, I found out more or less why the Phoenix's weren't performing! More importantly how to get them* to perform majestically! While flying at 40 Thousand Feet bank essentially straight up and Launch your Phoenix's in this clime at 41 Thousand -- 42 Thousand Feet! It perfects the missiles lofting trajectory! Lol then watch as they perform at least twice as well ;) ✌
great video, i feel like a very valued viewer. Lessons learned -F-14s that are out of ammo with a 50 mile gap from the next flight gets destroyed by zerg -the AI didnt seem to use the all aspect p5s for all aspect aside from some firing 1 before trying to dogfight the swarm. almost all US A-4s destroyed on screen still had 3 missiles at least -Matrix is in his element in the Harrier as the King's Champion -supercarrier jams were not on the update list
90's CSG would have AIM-120 on F-18 which would chew the red coalition up easily. It was only the bad performance of AIM-54 that made this kind of exciting.
@grimreapers true, that makes a lot of sense, but maybe you could say it was the first batch or F-18's ever delivered, so it's like only part of a Squadron was there on a lower AI skill level, due to inexperience woth the mew planes.
@Grimreapers - That was really entertaining, Cap! Would the air-to-air combat have been better for the Blue forces had the F-14s been loaded out with Sparrow missiles instead of the Phoenix?
@@dexlab7539 I was flying a F14 on persian gulf map over fairly flat terrain....was really low and ended up skidding to a stop on a slight rise in the ground, altitude was constant the ground was not...!
Would've been a whole different battle if the f-14s did hit and runs instead of bathing in the sea of opfor planes, and fitted with sparrows/sidewinders in place of phoenixes.
It's interesting and a little frustrating to see how the AI gives up their advantages so quickly. Giving up speed and elevation, trying to win in a contest of speed-killing acrobatics when there are 15-20 other enemies around you and absolutely no friendlies. I want to setup a similar scenario like this in Command: Modern Operations now
@@grimreapers also, perhaps it would be better for the planes taking off the US carrier to stay in a holding pattern so that a certain number accumulates, and only then attack, instead of feeding their planes to the enemy one by one
Two things: if Iranians are too believed, Phoenix is actually a good dog fighting missile when used under 40 miles. The speed cancels the maneuverability of the target as those ranges. Second, an E-2c needs to be included as part of this scenario. That allows for better tactics for F-14s
One Note: In the 80s right after the Falklands war, Argentina Began Using some of their Super Etendards aboard the ARA 25 de Mayo. In fact this adaptation was supposed to be complete by the start of the Original Falklands Invasion plan started.
In the 70s the British could have had Ark Royal with Phantoms and Buccaneers. Argentina operated SuEs from their carrier as well. The A-4Q was a rebuilt B with OMEGA long range nav added.
Did you know that the Brazilian Navy only received their A-4's in 1999. The Airforce kept blocking their operation of aircraft which eventually led to the airforce shooting a navy helicopter(Incidente de Tramandaí, 1964) and so they agreed to only let carrier helicopters be operated by the navy and the 6 S-2 there operated by the airforce until they went out of service.
I think it would have been much better for the F-14's to forgo the Pheonix missiles and carry more AMMRAM's, and just keep their distance from the red swarm, but I guess that's just AI pilots.
"Quantity has a quality all its own" - Joseph Stalin... And honestly in the 70s the US Navy still used a lot of F-8 Crusaders for fleet defense, which if intermingled with the F-14s would have put up better short range/dog fighting capability while the Tomcats could have been the QRF or saved their Phoenixes till later in the battle... 4 VS 1 is a little ridiculous anyways even with Tomcats...
The failure of the The Phoenix Program was the success of Project Phoenix, which were going on at the same time only a few miles apart...Calverton Grumman/Brookhaven Lab.
Seems like you should add 4-6 additional aircraft beyond normal squadron strength when using the super carrier, give you a few airframes to clean up without effecting the over all sqdrn strength.
Hey Cap! Love the video, but can we make a new rule for F-14s. Unless they are performing fleet defense against bombers just equip them with Aim-7s (or the time periods equivalent) and ditch the phoenix. I have a feeling this kill ratio would have been closer to 4:1 with that load out. My question about the phoenix was it actually this bad in real life at anything other than bomber defense?
Honestly I'd think they would try to replace the missiles if they had enough time on the final fighters to be launched. Basically prioritizing launching, but work on those last to launch so hopefully some would have a better load out. (Assuming the us was caught by surprise and needed to rush launch all their fighters without delay, like maybe they assumed it was a Russian bomber/fighter threat and were surprised when a joint task force of nations they considered allies/neutral attacked)
Holy crap, I just realised for about 10 years the US and NATO had no antiship missiles at all while the soviets had them. A 1960s US carrier group vs a 60s soviet surface fleet would involve US warships having to close to gun range or relying on planes to hit Soviet ships with unguided weapons.
This shouldn't have been close for two reasons. 1. If the tomcats were allowed/able to bulid up a squad and not trickle in they alone could kill all the planes. 2. Have Phoenix missles that basically had no chance of hitting because they're made for bombers in the load out basically weaken them as well. For realism they never would've brought them out to begin with
Cool beans ! These ."what if..." scenarios are things that probably have crossed all our minds at one point - amd a great test of what DCS has to showcase and what might have been... Keepnit upCap and GR !
I don't know that Tomcats are even configured to carry more than two sidewinders but, if you could do 4, that'd be great. Either way, run it, at least with the humans, with no AIM54s and only sparrows and sidewinders, I'd bet the Cats would do a lot better.
We need this battle again but with an AIM-7 heavy load out for the tomcats. My guess is if the AIM-54s are out of the equations and replaced with Sparrows then the reds won’t push far past bulls (unless Cap lets the carrier stay clogged again).
The Clémenceau in the 80s' had 15 super étendard, 8 (old...) crusaders for self defense (equipped with 2 Magic 2), plus 4 recon étendards 4 and 8 alizés for anti-sub mission. In 85, four of its 8 100mm muli-purpose guns were replaced by 2 crotale anti-air missiles launchers. Super étandard can carry 2 magic 2 as well, but they would have flown very low probably, hence very hard targets for phoenix but they have no post combustion, and can barely reach Mach 1.
the 9P is the export version of the 9J, not the 9L. the P-5 actually uses an intentionally worsened version of the 9L seeker specifically for export. And the Super E shouldn't have afterburner either.
@@grimreapers yeah it can be. I have that committed to memory. Did lots of research on it when all aspect heaters were about to be added to War Thunder, which is my main game.
The aircraft carrier bug really did hamper the US, when that swarm was up there having a single A4 taking off at a time was never going to do anything. I also cant believe a game designed around aircombat can make a carrier work. Lastly couldn't the F14 switch out its AIM54 for other missiles?
Type 45 is being upgraded quite a bit over the next years now with the contracts for CAMM sorted, bringing total missiles to 72, and now the contact for aster 30 block 1 added giving it ASBM capability (~600km with block 1nt added in a few years for longer ~1500km ASBM's) I'd be really curious to see how these new upgrades, now confirmed, change how the RN involved wargames play out @grimreapers
I would like to see the f-14 with a different armament. In fighter battles (against small, agile aircraft) more Sidewinders and Sparrows would have worked better, instead of the big and heavy AIM-54 Phoenix. Perhaps such a comparison battle?
I don't know who told you that the A-4 was still on U.S. carriers in the 70s but they need to get off the pipe. It was A-6s and A-7s in the 70s. I know because I was in an A-7 squadron in the 70s. The A-7 carried two sidewinders on fuselage mounted stations. Please inform your valued wiewers you are making a substitution. Thanks.
Don't really know much about the game details, so sorry if this is obvious. Are there no F-8s in DCS? The French used them as their mainline naval fighter until the late 90s.
How did you get the carriers to work ? Are you using 2.9 update ? Since the update none of my carriers show on my map when I start the game, (open beta2.9} can you help ??
You keep using Phoenix as anti-fighter missiles. They aren't designed for that, they are designed to shoot at slow bombers far away. Load out the Tomcats with Sparrow and Sidewinder and the outcome would be different.
@@grimreapersYou are correct! "But you did say while the mission was playing out SM-2s may start coming out cause of how close the red team was getting" But you are absolutely correct and I do watch it, sometimes I just comment before listening to all of the BB. My bad. But good fun video!
Awesome video man! Food for thought though, if this is a 70's scenario, and the anti air is composed of fighters, then i think the proper loadout for the F-14s would be 4x4 or 6x2 Sparrow/Sidewinder. As for the AIM-54's, ED has for some reason made them terrible CCM wise. Right now they are worse then the Sparrows, while every person ever involved in USN missile test firing has stated the opposite. Alas, it's just something we'll have to live with.... EDIT: Turned on through the roof!!! EDIT 2: What really alarmed me is how ineffective were the blue Skyhawks, and how effective the SE's were. Are you sure the latter are properly modelled?
4 Tomcats out of 30 odd, bugging is decent when we look at how hard it was to keep them operational with the problematic engines and avionics , they were maintainace hogs
"70s US carrier group" uses A-4s, no A-6 or A-7 Also, I wonder if the USN would send up a bunch of tomcats with two sidewinders and six sparrows if they were fighting a battle against these kinds of enemies. Seems like it would make a lot of difference.
Yo should have used the South Atlantic map :( (I’m from Chile, it excites me every time you do scenarios near or at my hometown, Punta Arenas ❤️) specially as you had 2 South American carrier groups
Hi Cap, interesting video. I know you like the Falklands war battles and I was wondering what would have happened if Argentina had invaded the Islands in 1970 and how the UK fleet would have been able to respond with the assets available to them at the time. Maybe you could model this in DCS ?
The RN still had Eagle, Ark Royal and Hermes in commission as full carriers so a lot more pain is brought from the air. The Argentinians still have two Brooklyn class light cruisers so probably more strikes by the Buccs to take them out as nothing the RN has can outgun them.
Very awesome to watch. That might be the closest thing I get to hearing Brits call something that reminded me of NASCAR with fighter planes and explosives 🤣 that being said, I have a question and maybe it could be answered. Why was the Tornado never used as a naval air asset for the Royal Navy? In my opinion (excuse the American ignorance) it makes a lot of sense to throw it off of a carrier like we did the F-14. Keep Up the great work GR. Cheers y'all.
Two reasons for the horrible performance by "blue." 1) The US carrier SHOULD have had about the same launch rates as the 4 smaller carriers...but it didn't. They lagged behind leading to 1 aircraft flying into the "swarm" of ready "red" fighters one at a time. 2) Tomcats flying into the "swarm" and turnfighting outnumbered 4-1. But still it was fun to watch. Real life F-14s rarely carrier more than 2 Phoenixes at once either.
It would have been a bit more interesting if half the carrier wings would be going after the opposing carriers as would likely be the case irl. However, I guess that would be pretty bad for attackers on both sides. (Sea Darts and SM-2s would have a field day)
Not sure if this can be done, but could you replicate in game the movie "The Final Countdown" where a US aircraft carrier went back in time to 1941 just before the bombing of Peral Harbor and have the US carrier try to take out the Japanese carrier group before they launched their attack on Peral Harbor. In the movie they were getting ready to attack the Japanese fleet but the time portal came back and so they scrubbed the mission before actually carrying it out. I always wondered if they would have been successful if the attack were able to be completed. Just a fun exercise to see what may have happened in the movie.
If we had the right assets ie Coldwar era USN cruisers (you could put in 1 Bainbridge CGN mod??) the reds would have to face SM2ER's.....and they would not get within 50NM.. in the 1970s the USN still had several ships equipped with the huge Talo's missile system (CGN9 Long Beach, CG10 Albany, CG11 Chicago plus about 3 CGLs up till the mid 70s....Talos was a two stage missile using a solid booster and a ramjet second stage with a max range of 130nm and 465Lb warhead.....just to mess up your day...there was also an surface to surface Anti radar variant....basically a giant HARM used during Vietnam by USS Long Beach, USS Chicago and USS Oklahoma City
Nevermind! I thought you were going to put in 4 Carrier Strike Groups. It is still going to be difficult but the US should be able to handle it. Be close tho!!!!
What speaks against burning to bulls high with the f14, then going low no burn an try to shoot the others from below witj phoenix missiles? It might burn all the way and find a target in the blob?
Fun video. Question, would giving F-14s Sparrows instad of Phoenixes change outcome? Seems like Sparrows track better, and am I correct to say, that F-14 can take a lot of FOX-1s? And even if it would be only 4, still better PK?
Could you do the following: at Pearl (the battle), Enterprise was near enough, but supposedly guessed wrongly about the position of the Kido Butai. Basically, make it as follows. The Japanese are as IRL and attack Pearl. Enterprise launches an anti-ship strike. The American team must keep Enterprise alive and sink at least 1 Japanese carrier and keep as many battleships alive as possible. The Japanese team must try to take out ALL battleships, Enterprise and the Airbases Not sure whether torpedoes work in the sims, but if they do: just imagine that the Japanese fleet angered merciful Poseidon, the moon was in the correct phase and the Americans appeased the machine spirits, that would have the American torps working correctly
Do you have any simulations of Operation Sea Lion? S a Brit I'm curious to see if any military modern or historical could successfully invade the UK via the sea.
This is all I have: ua-cam.com/video/qM6USMOFWI4/v-deo.html
@@grimreapers thank you so much
could "any" military? of course - in 1943-1944, it's likely the US could have invaded. This would assume that the US had not provided weapons or supplies to the UK, that the UK navy had been defeated, etc. This then would likely assume that the US and Germany were allies. Alternatively, some version of the UK having joined the Axis might have been considered - but then one has to ask, would German forces be included in the scenario? Additionally, I don't doubt that a modern military (large enough) could have landed on the UK. Probably wouldn't have to be that large either, if sufficient SAMs are available to defend the beachheads and sufficient anti-ship weapons are available to fend off the British navy (this wouldn't be difficult at all).
@@grimreapersYo Cap, I found out more or less why the Phoenix's weren't performing! More importantly how to get them* to perform majestically! While flying at 40 Thousand Feet bank essentially straight up and Launch your Phoenix's in this clime at 41 Thousand -- 42 Thousand Feet! It perfects the missiles lofting trajectory! Lol then watch as they perform at least twice as well ;) ✌
I love how the tonnage of the us carrier is more than the combined enemy fleet of carriers total tonnage.
You gotta fit 5 McDonalds on a ship somehow 😂
The combined weight of missed phoenix missiles is more than that of the enemy aircraft
If there's one thing the US knows how to do, it's making it big, lol
Because they're smaller
A repeated misconception of US military is that bigger is not always better. It's the 'motion of the ocean' that's paramount !
I think the coalition is the most crazy part. I can't imagine how that would work.
Especially after the lobster war.
Lots of google translate and no cowboy shit with Exocets
I heard UK doesn't get on too well with France and Argentina these days...
great video, i feel like a very valued viewer. Lessons learned
-F-14s that are out of ammo with a 50 mile gap from the next flight gets destroyed by zerg
-the AI didnt seem to use the all aspect p5s for all aspect aside from some firing 1 before trying to dogfight the swarm. almost all US A-4s destroyed on screen still had 3 missiles at least
-Matrix is in his element in the Harrier as the King's Champion
-supercarrier jams were not on the update list
This is a ridiculous but amazing senario. Honestly, wonder how it would play out against in a slightly more modern groups of ships, like the 90's?
90's CSG would have AIM-120 on F-18 which would chew the red coalition up easily. It was only the bad performance of AIM-54 that made this kind of exciting.
@grimreapers true, that makes a lot of sense, but maybe you could say it was the first batch or F-18's ever delivered, so it's like only part of a Squadron was there on a lower AI skill level, due to inexperience woth the mew planes.
You guys will like this one I was working in Newport News Virginia yesterday and 2 F-22 Raptors came flying by that is one smooth-looking plane
Brazil only started to use A-4 in the late 90s. In the 80s our navy used Trackers in anti submarine missions
It appears Wiki lied to me. Or maybe I read it wrong.
I've been a big fan of the Super È since I was a kid. No big reason, I just like the look of them & their useful ASu capability.
@Grimreapers - That was really entertaining, Cap! Would the air-to-air combat have been better for the Blue forces had the F-14s been loaded out with Sparrow missiles instead of the Phoenix?
Honestly, I think so.
I could belive CAP with phoenixes, but if your taking off for a naval battle… it just doesn’t make sense
Yes 4 sparrows on the belly
32:55 The TomCat win call followed by the cinematic F-14 flyby was nice.
It’s time we start a GoFundMe for Simba’s replica Maverick flight helmet.
Agreed
If you want the tomcat to perform against fighters, set it up with 4 AIM-9 and 4 AIM-7. AI sucks at killing fighters with the Phoenix.
It's strange. I watch my old carrier battles and the AIM-54 was the best core game missile in there by far.
@@grimreapersI think the deves buffed ai recently
@@grimreapers I think they nerfed the AIM-54, It pretty much only works on bombers since quite a while back
@@STURYANPHUAYEWLIANG yea and its annoying they took out the realism from the missile
nearly spat my beer out when Cap said "he's one lag spike away from being toast"
Matrix has ultra high speed internet 😂
@@dexlab7539 I was flying a F14 on persian gulf map over fairly flat terrain....was really low and ended up skidding to a stop on a slight rise in the ground, altitude was constant the ground was not...!
Would've been a whole different battle if the f-14s did hit and runs instead of bathing in the sea of opfor planes, and fitted with sparrows/sidewinders in place of phoenixes.
It's interesting and a little frustrating to see how the AI gives up their advantages so quickly. Giving up speed and elevation, trying to win in a contest of speed-killing acrobatics when there are 15-20 other enemies around you and absolutely no friendlies.
I want to setup a similar scenario like this in Command: Modern Operations now
Agreed
@@grimreapers also, perhaps it would be better for the planes taking off the US carrier to stay in a holding pattern so that a certain number accumulates, and only then attack, instead of feeding their planes to the enemy one by one
Two things: if Iranians are too believed, Phoenix is actually a good dog fighting missile when used under 40 miles. The speed cancels the maneuverability of the target as those ranges. Second, an E-2c needs to be included as part of this scenario. That allows for better tactics for F-14s
The A-4s oddly seemed to have better SA than the US Navy, that's true.
I always thought Cap's head was filled with excellence.
How weird is it to see a reapers video without damp sock that includes tomcat
Damp is in college right now, can’t show up much rn
A USN 1970s cruiser(Leahy, Belknap, California, Virginia) is worth 2-4 OHP FFGs in terms of anti-air firepower.
15:36 Is the missile still thrusting here? If not is it just running on inertia? Sorry if this is a stupid question...
They only burn for 5-15 seconds depending on the missile. 90+% of the travel is on glide like this was.
One Note: In the 80s right after the Falklands war, Argentina Began Using some of their Super Etendards aboard the ARA 25 de Mayo. In fact this adaptation was supposed to be complete by the start of the Original Falklands Invasion plan started.
In the 70s the British could have had Ark Royal with Phantoms and Buccaneers.
Argentina operated SuEs from their carrier as well. The A-4Q was a rebuilt B with OMEGA long range nav added.
Did you know that the Brazilian Navy only received their A-4's in 1999. The Airforce kept blocking their operation of aircraft which eventually led to the airforce shooting a navy helicopter(Incidente de Tramandaí, 1964) and so they agreed to only let carrier helicopters be operated by the navy and the 6 S-2 there operated by the airforce until they went out of service.
I think it would have been much better for the F-14's to forgo the Pheonix missiles and carry more AMMRAM's, and just keep their distance from the red swarm, but I guess that's just AI pilots.
"Quantity has a quality all its own" - Joseph Stalin... And honestly in the 70s the US Navy still used a lot of F-8 Crusaders for fleet defense, which if intermingled with the F-14s would have put up better short range/dog fighting capability while the Tomcats could have been the QRF or saved their Phoenixes till later in the battle... 4 VS 1 is a little ridiculous anyways even with Tomcats...
Simba's laugh... Priceless.
The failure of the The Phoenix Program was the success of Project Phoenix, which were going on at the same time only a few miles apart...Calverton Grumman/Brookhaven Lab.
Seems like you should add 4-6 additional aircraft beyond normal squadron strength when using the super carrier, give you a few airframes to clean up without effecting the over all sqdrn strength.
Hey Cap! Love the video, but can we make a new rule for F-14s. Unless they are performing fleet defense against bombers just equip them with Aim-7s (or the time periods equivalent) and ditch the phoenix. I have a feeling this kill ratio would have been closer to 4:1 with that load out. My question about the phoenix was it actually this bad in real life at anything other than bomber defense?
Honestly I'd think they would try to replace the missiles if they had enough time on the final fighters to be launched. Basically prioritizing launching, but work on those last to launch so hopefully some would have a better load out. (Assuming the us was caught by surprise and needed to rush launch all their fighters without delay, like maybe they assumed it was a Russian bomber/fighter threat and were surprised when a joint task force of nations they considered allies/neutral attacked)
Holy crap, I just realised for about 10 years the US and NATO had no antiship missiles at all while the soviets had them. A 1960s US carrier group vs a 60s soviet surface fleet would involve US warships having to close to gun range or relying on planes to hit Soviet ships with unguided weapons.
This shouldn't have been close for two reasons.
1. If the tomcats were allowed/able to bulid up a squad and not trickle in they alone could kill all the planes.
2. Have Phoenix missles that basically had no chance of hitting because they're made for bombers in the load out basically weaken them as well.
For realism they never would've brought them out to begin with
What would a stealth tomcat look like if we had stayed on that track, something between a F14 and a J20. Could be really awesome
Cool beans !
These ."what if..." scenarios are things that probably have crossed all our minds at one point - amd a great test of what DCS has to showcase and what might have been...
Keepnit upCap and GR !
what an awesome battle
I don't know that Tomcats are even configured to carry more than two sidewinders but, if you could do 4, that'd be great. Either way, run it, at least with the humans, with no AIM54s and only sparrows and sidewinders, I'd bet the Cats would do a lot better.
We need this battle again but with an AIM-7 heavy load out for the tomcats. My guess is if the AIM-54s are out of the equations and replaced with Sparrows then the reds won’t push far past bulls (unless Cap lets the carrier stay clogged again).
41:39 could be a seen in Full Monty Python😆👍
GREAT video guys! I hate seeing the Tomcat lose but I do enjoy when a scenario comes together for you all.
Tag
@grimreapers is your new lofting version of the Aim-260 already public
available ??? And if not when will you publish it?
Negative and looks like it's not working properly anyway. Back to the drawing board.
Great battle thanks
I need to get a book on Scooters. It is a gap in my library.
In all the quick snaps too and from the map, I read it as Super Etendard MAYONAISE 🤣🤣
Now I'm hungry...
Putting the Argies with the Brits in the 80's, you're lucky they didn't turn around and do a surprise attack on the Brits ...
Re-run with tomcats using Sparrow load-out rather than phoenix's may be useful
The Clémenceau in the 80s' had 15 super étendard, 8 (old...) crusaders for self defense (equipped with 2 Magic 2), plus 4 recon étendards 4 and 8 alizés for anti-sub mission. In 85, four of its 8 100mm muli-purpose guns were replaced by 2 crotale anti-air missiles launchers. Super étandard can carry 2 magic 2 as well, but they would have flown very low probably, hence very hard targets for phoenix but they have no post combustion, and can barely reach Mach 1.
Agree but I asked a pilot who flew on Clem and he says that if required they could have got 30 SE's on there with nothing else.
True, but if there was a chance to encounter fighters, Crusaders were (slightly) better than Super E@@grimreapers
If there is a wind surfer out here I am toast! lol
the 9P is the export version of the 9J, not the 9L. the P-5 actually uses an intentionally worsened version of the 9L seeker specifically for export.
And the Super E shouldn't have afterburner either.
Thanks. I give up. It's so dang confusing.
@@grimreapers yeah it can be. I have that committed to memory. Did lots of research on it when all aspect heaters were about to be added to War Thunder, which is my main game.
The aircraft carrier bug really did hamper the US, when that swarm was up there having a single A4 taking off at a time was never going to do anything. I also cant believe a game designed around aircombat can make a carrier work.
Lastly couldn't the F14 switch out its AIM54 for other missiles?
Really enjoying the 20th century stuff!
Blues wouldnt have won without SAM's, accounted for nearly a quarter of their kills.
Type 45 is being upgraded quite a bit over the next years now with the contracts for CAMM sorted, bringing total missiles to 72, and now the contact for aster 30 block 1 added giving it ASBM capability (~600km with block 1nt added in a few years for longer ~1500km ASBM's) I'd be really curious to see how these new upgrades, now confirmed, change how the RN involved wargames play out @grimreapers
The AIM-54 could hit sea skimming cruise missiles with no issues, hitting a sea skimming aircraft probably wouldn't be much different.
Ah yes, the ABC Powers - Argentina, Brazil, and Chunnel.
Radar missiles vs ir missiles, it was in my opinion the F-14’s battle all along had they stayed at 40,000ft and been armed with more sparrows
I would like to see the f-14 with a different armament. In fighter battles (against small, agile aircraft) more Sidewinders and Sparrows would have worked better, instead of the big and heavy AIM-54 Phoenix. Perhaps such a comparison battle?
I don't know who told you that the A-4 was still on U.S. carriers in the 70s but they need to get off the pipe. It was A-6s and A-7s in the 70s. I know because I was in an A-7 squadron in the 70s. The A-7 carried two sidewinders on fuselage mounted stations. Please inform your valued wiewers you are making a substitution. Thanks.
Speaking of Fly, where has he been lately?
Lots of working I’ve heard, too bad he’s great fun
The lottery would not be nice to win.
Read about how the lottery has ruined people's lives.
Sounds like it may have been a little more for the Blue if they'd loaded 6 AIM-7's vs the 4 AIM-54's + 2 AIM-7. Great battle GR.
Don't really know much about the game details, so sorry if this is obvious. Are there no F-8s in DCS? The French used them as their mainline naval fighter until the late 90s.
A4 is one of my favorite birds.
How did you get the carriers to work ? Are you using 2.9 update ? Since the update none of my carriers show on my map when I start the game, (open beta2.9} can you help ??
Loved the vid. Wonder if it would have gone better if the French had F-8 Crusaders onboard as well.
i'm curious... who would be escorting Santa this year? And who would be be trying to shoot him down?
that AV8B is still slower than the Sea Harrier. :( In fights like this that does count.
Is there not Hermes available? As she was around in the 80s...
You keep using Phoenix as anti-fighter missiles. They aren't designed for that, they are designed to shoot at slow bombers far away. Load out the Tomcats with Sparrow and Sidewinder and the outcome would be different.
Is it just me or does the front on view of the US Skyhawk look like Dangermouse's face?
Cool this should be exciting! Lots of Boom Boom!!!
Well I always say that BB is important.
@@grimreapersYou are correct! "But you did say while the mission was playing out SM-2s may start coming out cause of how close the red team was getting" But you are absolutely correct and I do watch it, sometimes I just comment before listening to all of the BB. My bad. But good fun video!
What about f14bs with sparrows instead of phoenixes. If they are going to be so outnumbered.
That was fun
Awesome video man!
Food for thought though, if this is a 70's scenario, and the anti air is composed of fighters, then i think the proper loadout for the F-14s would be 4x4 or 6x2 Sparrow/Sidewinder.
As for the AIM-54's, ED has for some reason made them terrible CCM wise. Right now they are worse then the Sparrows, while every person ever involved in USN missile test firing has stated the opposite. Alas, it's just something we'll have to live with....
EDIT:
Turned on through the roof!!!
EDIT 2:
What really alarmed me is how ineffective were the blue Skyhawks, and how effective the SE's were. Are you sure the latter are properly modelled?
I think it's a matter of the "blue" skyhawks charging one at a time into the "red" blob. Just can't take on 30 enemy a/c at once.
@@jimrussell4062yeah, makes sense. Good point there
'We need more exocets!'
4 Tomcats out of 30 odd, bugging is decent when we look at how hard it was to keep them operational with the problematic engines and avionics , they were maintainace hogs
Roger
"70s US carrier group"
uses A-4s, no A-6 or A-7
Also, I wonder if the USN would send up a bunch of tomcats with two sidewinders and six sparrows if they were fighting a battle against these kinds of enemies. Seems like it would make a lot of difference.
i'm guessing DCS doesn't have any A-7s
Yo should have used the South Atlantic map :( (I’m from Chile, it excites me every time you do scenarios near or at my hometown, Punta Arenas ❤️) specially as you had 2 South American carrier groups
Hi Cap, interesting video. I know you like the Falklands war battles and I was wondering what would have happened if Argentina had invaded the Islands in 1970 and how the UK fleet would have been able to respond with the assets available to them at the time. Maybe you could model this in DCS ?
The RN still had Eagle, Ark Royal and Hermes in commission as full carriers so a lot more pain is brought from the air. The Argentinians still have two Brooklyn class light cruisers so probably more strikes by the Buccs to take them out as nothing the RN has can outgun them.
Where are the F-8s from France as fighters ?
Maybe Ark royal with F4 Phantoms but I guess not in dcs yet
Correct :(
Very awesome to watch. That might be the closest thing I get to hearing Brits call something that reminded me of NASCAR with fighter planes and explosives 🤣 that being said, I have a question and maybe it could be answered. Why was the Tornado never used as a naval air asset for the Royal Navy? In my opinion (excuse the American ignorance) it makes a lot of sense to throw it off of a carrier like we did the F-14. Keep Up the great work GR. Cheers y'all.
The A-10 Warthog VERSUS The Su-25 Frogfoot match up
Maybe Tomcats should’ve gone with all Sparrows and no Pheonixs…?
Two reasons for the horrible performance by "blue." 1) The US carrier SHOULD have had about the same launch rates as the 4 smaller carriers...but it didn't. They lagged behind leading to 1 aircraft flying into the "swarm" of ready "red" fighters one at a time. 2) Tomcats flying into the "swarm" and turnfighting outnumbered 4-1. But still it was fun to watch. Real life F-14s rarely carrier more than 2 Phoenixes at once either.
It would have been a bit more interesting if half the carrier wings would be going after the opposing carriers as would likely be the case irl. However, I guess that would be pretty bad for attackers on both sides. (Sea Darts and SM-2s would have a field day)
Intense Battles WOW!!! ;)
Not sure if this can be done, but could you replicate in game the movie "The Final Countdown" where a US aircraft carrier went back in time to 1941 just before the bombing of Peral Harbor and have the US carrier try to take out the Japanese carrier group before they launched their attack on Peral Harbor. In the movie they were getting ready to attack the Japanese fleet but the time portal came back and so they scrubbed the mission before actually carrying it out. I always wondered if they would have been successful if the attack were able to be completed. Just a fun exercise to see what may have happened in the movie.
Why aren’t there A-6 and A-7’s on the Nimitz? A-4’s only?
Also, the Phoenix should have done better, as shown in the Iran-Iraq war
If we had the right assets ie Coldwar era USN cruisers (you could put in 1 Bainbridge CGN mod??) the reds would have to face SM2ER's.....and they would not get within 50NM.. in the 1970s the USN still had several ships equipped with the huge Talo's missile system (CGN9 Long Beach, CG10 Albany, CG11 Chicago plus about 3 CGLs up till the mid 70s....Talos was a two stage missile using a solid booster and a ramjet second stage with a max range of 130nm and 465Lb warhead.....just to mess up your day...there was also an surface to surface Anti radar variant....basically a giant HARM used during Vietnam by USS Long Beach, USS Chicago and USS Oklahoma City
1 vs 4! Wow that should be a problem...
Nevermind! I thought you were going to put in 4 Carrier Strike Groups. It is still going to be difficult but the US should be able to handle it. Be close tho!!!!
I wonder if a better load out for the Tomcats wouldn't have just been all Sparrows and Sidewinders?
you guys do realize the french used F-8 crusaders yes? and that they had magic 1 and R-530?
that and the british had F-4 phantoms (fgr.1)
What speaks against burning to bulls high with the f14, then going low no burn an try to shoot the others from below witj phoenix missiles? It might burn all the way and find a target in the blob?
Why don’t your scenarios have any CAP at the beginning?
More sparrows I think would have served the F14's better than AIM54s in this.
Where are the exocets?
@ cap it was SpaceX not a shooting star if it was around 13:00 hour
No F8 Crusaders for France?
Fun video. Question, would giving F-14s Sparrows instad of Phoenixes change outcome? Seems like Sparrows track better, and am I correct to say, that F-14 can take a lot of FOX-1s? And even if it would be only 4, still better PK?
Wouldn't the French of used Crusaders?
Yeh but I don't have them so replaced them with more Super E's.
@@grimreapers Which we don't really have because the real world SE was more like a skyhawk than what is in the game as a mod.
should do operation sky shield
Hey when will you do another Indian Carrier battle!!!!!!
Could you do the following: at Pearl (the battle), Enterprise was near enough, but supposedly guessed wrongly about the position of the Kido Butai.
Basically, make it as follows. The Japanese are as IRL and attack Pearl. Enterprise launches an anti-ship strike. The American team must keep Enterprise alive and sink at least 1 Japanese carrier and keep as many battleships alive as possible. The Japanese team must try to take out ALL battleships, Enterprise and the Airbases
Not sure whether torpedoes work in the sims, but if they do: just imagine that the Japanese fleet angered merciful Poseidon, the moon was in the correct phase and the Americans appeased the machine spirits, that would have the American torps working correctly