Phil Vs Kai: 2012 Mr Olympia Revisited
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Reviewing the battle for the 2012 Mr Olympia between the 1-time champ Phil Heath and a formidable challenger in the form of Kai Greene.
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When are they going to incorporate the rear Glute Spread ?
😂😂
That's Kai's favorite
My new favourite comment on a bodybuilding video
@@chopzmasta07 Yeah he does it already
Im dead!
100% accurate Tomn8er. "Kai just wasn't dominating enough!" He was so so close but his few weaker points just stood out too much. Appears another suffers failure to genetics.
Psychologist: The crab most muscular Kai isn't real and he can't hurt you
The crab most muscular Kai: 8:30
Kai's trainer George Farrah said he instructed Kai to eat before the finals but he refused because he didn't want to lose his condition. That resulted in him being flat.
Kai is a big baby. I've coached 7 year olds in Soccer and track that listen to instructions better.
Well he also told Kai that he won hands down after the prejudging 😂😂
When you see the most muscular shot and the rear lat spread there was no question why Phil won, he was simply more dominant and complete.
Kai's feathered quades are to die for
i love the way that you went so in depth, even with muscle groups that arent as important, in the different shots
Kai's crab most muscular looks horrible.
Everyone has a pose that they don’t look great in. For example, abs and thighs or front lat spread for Phil.
you need great traps, delts and shoulders to pull this off. And those 3 were kai weakest areas. Kai has freaky hamstring and lats and biceps, these 3 are needed to pull off a good back double biceps and he did. Everyone has their good and bad poses
Nate Jones hands on hip and crab are 2 different variations of the most muscular. His crab in the Arnold was better Bc it was more upright with more emphasis on the chest biceps and midsection
Dj_M1 yep typo i meant forarms
@@Trenacetate43 its his triceps i couldnt stop staring at. the back half of his arm just looks absent in that pose, really odd
Sometimes your best is not good enough to be the best.
In life one should only compete against self and give it your all. You will not be the champion but deep down your determination and effort will have you to feel like one.
Great analysis. For years I had Kai winning. Your breakdown and pointing out strengths and weaknesses is very good.
Thank you for making your videos. Greatly appreciated.
Kai has absolutely no forearms or traps
true
Have you seen your forearms?
@@giovannyc3886 I'm not a professional bodybuilder, and yes mine are also shit. Have I seen your physique, no. You are an absolute nobody
@@giovannyc3886 ikr
@@Imperialbbuilding well you are the one hating on a professional BB I'm simply responding to your hate.
8:55 kai looks INCONCEIVABLY bad in this shot... just shocking... he looks like the hybrid alien from alien 4...
it's mind blowing to me, like a completely different person... he might lose 3 POSES in that one shot
I just gave him the L as soon as I saw it
Here it becomes clear Why the gift has beaten him every year. Kai's got one of the best muscle building genetics but one of the worst structures in bodybuilding.
Looks like a photoshop or something. Crazy
There’s no roundness in the delts and his biceps bulging look so odd since he lacked size in the Tricep the whole pose looks weird
Thanks for this. I've never been a fan of Kai's body but I'm sorry he stopped competing.
9:27 see man, you just cannot say Kai's legs look better in that shot. I mean yeah his feathered quads are crazy, and have always been his best feature IMO. But look how completely smooth eveything else is. In turn, look how seperated Phil's thighs are
1:01 Alien head lol
In the front lat spread, Phil's head/neck looks like Thanos's face
I remember watching it live “from home” I had Phil winning a very close contest but looking back at the pictures I would give it to Kai. Both men looked so much better at lighter body weights.
No way give it to Kai ....not even close Phil smoked him hai has no forearms at all no triceps no shoulders the crab pose Kai does looks hideous ....there is a shot or two he might beat Phil in really only back shot and that's it dude watch again. He has too many flaws Phil's good everywhere
Wasn’t that the year Phil was like 2ft over the line?
Excellent analysis. Kai's shoulders and triceps just don't match up to Phil's. Phil wins it like you say. Thanks for sharing! Cheers
0:45 you can see Phil elbows Kai, thats why he turned like he’s was gonna make a go at him. Given it appears that Kai may have inadvertently bumped Phil first as he was transitioning poses.
If you can find footage of it, I would love to see your analysis on both the 1998 and 1999 mr olympia
Kai can never beat Phil. Anyone who says Kai is an uncrowned champ needs to rethink about that. Phil never robbed Kai and if anything really Phil was the one who got robbed off by Kai in 2010 Arnold classic.
Don't tell me what I need to do.. thanks
bro...heath in arnold 2010 is fuckin legendary, his conditioning was just unbelievable, maybe best hes ever looked
Kai has excellent hamstrings and biceps.
Training and growing up in the 90s during Dorian’s days has spoilt me to the degree that I cannot look at the bodybuilders after that era favorably. It’s flabbergasting that these two guys were among the top bodybuilders over a decade after Dorian, Shawn Ray, Nasser, Flex, Paul Dillette, Levrone, Ronnie and others. They are many steps back. Using the word ‘conditioning’ to this and subsequent generations of bodybuilders is a euphemism.
Wow, thank you for this video, man! That BDB pose! :O I think Phil has the greatest BDB pose of all-times, however this was more than close. I can fairly state that Kai might have the best back double bicep pose of anyone who haven't won the olympia. This was really close - both the pose and the whole thing.
However Phil winning with clear 5s both prejudging and finals is some odd shit, same fashion Dorian used to win his shows featuring a torn bicep, tricep and bloated midsection. If this would have been 8-7 or even 9-6 I would "get it". But this score screams politics pretty loud. I have no problem Phil winning this one, but the scoresheet should reflect how close this was.
Phil's BDB continued to improve over time. It wasn't as unstoppable back in 2011-2012 as it has been since say 2016. Yeah you're right about the scoring, I didn't look but if at least one judge didn't vote for Kai that seems a little fishy.
I think you get off on the idea of making people think you get off on the idea of who has the best back double bicep pose more than you actually get off on that pose itself.
Fully agreed about the most-muscular poses. Kai never learned how to hit any of the variations properly.
And I think I might give this one to Phil, if barely. If Kai brought his forearms and traps up, he should win. Unfortunately, he has a very thick waist, so barring some almost inhuman transformation, Kai will forever be relegated to the also-ran category.
This video is quality. Good shit Tom! It felt cinematic as fuck
Thx bro 😎
This is my favourite version of kai greene
2012 Olympia was very, very close! However 2014 was kie's year imho. Kie looked bigger and more conditioned than in previous years plus Phil was off.
In 2014 he lost because he acted like a clown.
@@reekhadol yea man agreed, I remember saying to myself "wow what an idiot kie is ruining his chances of winning" truth is, the ifbb don't want no bully representing there organization. I don't see Kie as an bully just a man that was very frustrated 😠 and desperate to win!
I agree
Kai looked bigger not sharper...lol
8:18 imo Phil takes the Abs and Thighs. Everything just pops. His lats aren't as wide as Kai's lats but to me they look full round. Plus Phil has the smaller waist here. He's got more development and separation in the quads than Kai does. Phil's pecs look full where Kai's pecs seem to flatten out in the center.
Nah man. Kais got the better midsection of the two with a full 6 pack. And who takes chest into consider in an ab and thigh? It makes no sense since neither are flexing them. And while Phil's quads are great they are extremely disproportionate to his upper body. He's lower body dominant which makes it all look weird. It's even more apparent because of his weirds stance. Over all the pose goes to Kai.
I believe kai won this year.. yeah Phil is way more complete and gifted, and I agree with your analysis as it’s 4-4 kai is a much better poser, and in the side chest kai has better chest and legs. Only thing Phil got on him are those incredible arms but it’s not a side are, it’s a side chest and kai just has more outstanding muscles like his legs and biceps.
I can't help but feel that Phil would be more dominant in the front poses if he didn't seem so awkward and uncomfortable in them. The facial expressions don't help (needs to be more relaxed, at least visually). I like Kai more here (though he obviously loses in some key poses like those you mentioned).
That's a good point. The facial expressions aren't helping him lol
@@Tomn8er I've always been of the opinion that the poses should 'appear' effortless, even when maximum effort is being applied. With the exception, perhaps, of the most muscular pose, which should definitely look imposing and impressive (and not necessarily statuesque).
This was close but I think Phil won it fairly. In 2014 I think Kai should have won - Phil was off and Kai looked better.
Its not about who looks better its about who has the less weak points kai has a loooot if weak points (sorry if there is spelling mistakes)
Rear biceps...Kai is awesome but he lacks thickness in the traps, especially in the lower/mid trap area. I would probably call this one a tie.
i wanna see a OLYMPIA 2020 with KAI, PHIL, RODEN
That would be awesome
Bodybuilders strive for the v-taper. Dennis Wolf had a y-taper. Kai has a u-taper.
Wtf are ya on about hahaha
Andrew W.C. You’re right his waist is wide and thick
Lat insertions is what determines your possible taper.
Phil's arm conditioning is unmatched by anyone in history.
best analysis on these two ever.
I had Kai winning 5-3 fdb,fls,sc,rdb,and at. The side chest was close but Kai’s lower half looked a good bit better then Phil’s it was bigger and showed way more detail. The upper body Phil was only wining in terms of arm detail not even size wise. Kai’s chest also looked better. Personally I’d give it to Kai but I think the main reason he didn’t win was because Phil was the reigning champ and Kai didn’t completely beat Phil
Tomn8er takes very serious the delt/bicep separation in the side chest!! ;)
Hah I guess I do
Phil kept going over the line to make himself appear bigger. Watch the video to see. Even after they told him to go back, a few seconds later he'd just inch his way forward again. And this wasn't the only contest that he did that in, either. I know there are plenty of other bodybuilders that have done that type of thing, but it still doesn't change the fact that he kept fucking cheating. Not exactly what I'd call respectable behavior from a Mr. Olympia.
Kai wins the front lat spread decisively, and you can argue he edges out other poses. Imo, the ab and thigh is very close because Phil's midsection is much smaller and Kai's legs aren't separated. I get there's some feathering, but what about the separation between each quad? or even the size of the legs where Phil's are much larger even. Anyways, on the other hand, Phil dominates the back lat spread and the Most Muscular. He also wins the side tricep decisively. Even if they're 4-4, the disparity in their wins are very prominent. Kai barely squeaks by while Phil slams the door in several poses.
I don't think any ifbb pro beats Kai in the back double bi shots he always crushed it in that pose, his back genetics is unreal
Ronnie Coleman 1998, 1999 and Arnold classic 2001
Also Dorian yates
Rühl 2002 NOC
@@MrKid351 no 😂
@@marcosbona8260 Yes 😂
I'm a fan of Kai Green...though your breakdown in this video was so clear, I have to agree with your final take. Nice work, Tom. Would you do a video comparing Green and Lee Priest, please?
Quality content yet again Tom. Thanks.
I still have Kai 5-3. Cant say that he was robbed, but Olympia is notorious for heavily favoring the reigning champ.
The contest ended at 8:30. You can't win Mr. O when you're losing such an iconic pose so monumentally.
@@bliink182 overall the judging is very iffy. And your argument sounds like a vanity claim... Although it is a vanity contest.
@@donfanto1 lol yeah you don't get more vanity than bodybuilding. When kai beat Phil on poses it was by a slim margin in my opinion. When Phil beat Kai he blew him out of the water. Arms, traps, lower back.
5:18 bicep peaks like that (Kai) look so weird. I know people praise it but damn, they just look outta place.
i think in general we think kai x phil was something really close because of the back double biceps, when ronnie and coleman were mr o nobody had such a great back in comparison to them, but back (specially bdb) is the best pose of both phil and kai
Bro Tom, watch out for Tim Budesheim! He won his pro card in back in 2017 at the evls prague amateur 212, next day he hit the stage in the open pro show there and got 4th!! behind curry, cedric and chopan iirc. This ny pro will now be his official pro debut (he planned on doing 212 but he is just too heavy and will do open again) and boy be ready for a new face in the top callout, maybe even top 3
Alright I'll keep my eye out for him. Hopefully somebody steps up otherwise we're probably in store for another another Juan Morel vs Akim Williams show.
@@Tomn8er in germany they recently started calling him "german flex lewis", I really hope he nails it, cuz he's the best what german bb currently has to offer
It’s sad to see these 2 with no drive for competing anymore
Hey Tomn8er can you please make a video about lightning on bodybuilding stages? Imho it has gotten way worse as the time goes by, today's lightning is awful compared to 90's and early 00's. Thanks
Kinda did that already. See my vid on the 2013 Prague Pro
@@Tomn8er oh, yeah I knew you had that video I just didn't see it even thou I'm interested in the topic (makes no sense, I know)
Top quality vid Tom as always....grats on the subs too.
So...we're in 2022. Is there any other rivalry as good as this one? I don't think so personally. Least not yet.
they had such similar bodies, its crazy
WHATISUTUBE I actually think these guys are night and day... in every aspect lol :p
Kai did everything he could. It's just his luck that his lagging parts are Phil's strongest parts , plus this 3D look which one just has if they're born with it.
It's true. Post 2011, If Phil's on , it's almost impossible to beat him.
It took Shawn Rhoden the best shape of his life to beat Phil in 2018, who's gut problem was too noticeable. Even that Olympia was controversial. Just goes on to show how tough it is to beat him.
Phil without a gut issue would win 10 straight olympias.
Solid assessment,I don't think it's a shock that Kai beats phil in the BdB,his front double and back double is amongst the best we have seen.
8:19 I think that lower body for Phil kills him in the abs and thighs. He should pose like Kai with his legs straight to show his striations instead of bending his knee.
The problem is that phil doesn't have any feathering in his quads. It's pure genetics, straightening his legs doesnt make em appear suddenly
Stephen it’s not genetic at all? Look at a bodybuilder posing their legs and you’ll see when their legs are straight, you can see striations.
instagram.com/p/BlyksbggiPj/?igshid=jeqveahvhdn3
Here’s a good video of Patrick Moore flexing his quads. You can see the striations are based on how he flexes his quads.
Dope video bro, do some more revisited videos !
Looking back. Phil won but it would be kinda cool seeing the Predator bringing this one home. Then losing to Phil in 2013. Now that would be a legendary rivalry.
Def their best battle ever
I was the tenth person to like this video!!
If I cut the teardrop off of Rafael Brandeo’s leg how much do you think it would weigh?
@@chadchadiel2344 almost 5 pounds. most people's average around 1 and a half pounds. it is freakishly large.
Chad Chadiel I am the 10 person to like your comment.
It's crazy to think about how long ago this era actually was, it feels like this was just a couple of years ago but some of these competitors will be hitting their 60's soon. 😮 Time is a b!sh.
Ronnie Coleman destroys them both when in his prime.
I'm not sure how you went about judging this but from a bodybuilding standard phil destroys kai in every pose.. in conditioning, muscluraty and symmetry phil makes him look like a child... and the reason they do quarter turns is to judge symmetry.. how are you going to judge symmetry if you dont look at both sides?
Symmetry is pretty easy to judge from the front and rear mandatories. Also they don't just judge symmetry in the quarter turns, they judge the entire physique in terms of mass, conditioning, proportion etc. How else did Dorian Yates always beat Flex Wheeler in the so-called symmetry round?
@@Tomn8er you just answered your own question why phil smokes him in the quarter turns aswell, the muscular development phil has makes kai look like an amateur.. the only place kai can match phil is in the legs.. kai has a good rear double but it's got no where as much thickness as Phil's.. look at the pics again
Was not close at all. Phil in so much better condition. Fuller and tighter. Better aesthetics
2:15 totaly goes to phil.
I agree.
I disagree
Front Double Bicep: Phil
Front Lat Spread: Kai
Side Chest: Phil
Rear Double Bicep: Phil
Rear Lat Spread: Phil
Side Tricep: Phil
Ab and Thigh: Kai
Most Muscular: Phil
Kai: 2 Phil: 6
Agree, it wasn't as close as people think
Phil looks a thumb in the front lat spread pose
Is it better to be big and full or flat and shredded I think in today's game conditioning is king
You can be both full and shredded, Phil does it every year lol. Also Ronnie did it a few times and even Kai and Shawn Ray
Phil has the most beautiful physique of all time
😂😂😂
What's crazy is how far Kai Greene has come. His time and area growing up weren't prone to success. Very poor and criminal neighborhood.
Holy shit!! Kai was ROBBED!! Great analysis, TomN8er!!
no
This was good to watch and listen!
Kai looks so fucking bad in the crab pose. Holy moly
Awsome analysis man 👍👍
I've got the Flex issue which breaks down these same poses, and the Flex writer (Greg Merrit) gave the front lat spread to Phil!! I was like "WTF!!" Ithink he also called the front and rear double biceps as ties? Otherwise , his critique was much like yours. Overall I prefered Kai this year, but I can see how Phil won.
Kai's most muscular is really poor, and it's hard to fathom why he looks so bad and small. His shoulder width seems to shrink, and his arms which look so good in the front double bi, seem suddenly small. His genetically poor traps probably cost him the title. In the back lat spread there is no density in his mid back at all.
2012 is Phil’s best version imo, I don’t understand why people don’t talk about this version that much
I had it 5 to 3 for kai in the poses I felt he also won the side chest his chest was bigger and his glutes and legs were bigger he looks bigger and just as hard
Side chest and BDB could go either way depending on the picture and who's judging
completeky agree, on this particular contest Kai had him on the side chest and rear double biceps, not the case in other years.
@@TheLusianPopa I did a review of this contest in my seminar and I had Kai winning this one in Prejudging but Phil in the finals. Kai looked fuller and sharper than Phil in Prejudging but Phil thighten up for the finals so, since the Tomn8er used only finals picture for this comparasion I get it. Still if Kai hit this pose better, or atleast not this bad, he would have it in the bag always.
@@giganticitalianbodybuildin1584 judges don't see it that way since phil got straight 1st in predjuging and finals. He is just more complete
@@valerioscharer4676 I've seen the scorecards, it's odd that none of the judges vote that counted was in favour of Kai.
I think short bicep looks bad, most everyone in the gym I go to come up to me and ask (how do I fill in the gap in my arm bro?) obviously you can’t change genetics. But if I had a short bi, I would do all I could to hide it as well. Imo
Lol Phil's duck lips at 1:05 lol funny
Kai is an amazing guy, nut Phil is called "Gift" not without a reason, guy just looks too good, when his condition is on spot, and his belly is under control he has no rivals, he looks pretty much lika a GOAT, even Ronnie doesn't look as good as the best version of Phil, not a fanboy, don't like his personality at all, but those genes mate, have to appreciate the Gift.
The only poses I have Phil winning are the side tricepts, and the most muscular. Based on pics I'd have Kai winning this show.
That side chest was literally a tie.....I COULD NOT pick a clear winner.
Kai’s triceps and forearms kill his arm poses. There’s no fullness there.
Edit: I meant non-arm poses. Obviously he’s got great bicep development.
compare these with 2019 mr o lol this is how mr o should look
ps3portal adminas yeah 2019 was a pathetic year and they all looked off
They both had Bellies coming out... this isn’t what the Mr O should like
@@youssefb3412 eh I think their bellies were just about acceptable, it's far better then what phil has brought to the Olympia in the last couple of years.
I used to look at Kai and think he looked phenomenal and everything but now that I look at him I don’t like his body and body shape and proportions. I’m not even a big Phil Heath fan. I’m baffled that Phil Heath is gonna go down as one of the greatest BB’s of all time!
Greatest olimpiya rivals were jay and ronie, cant convince me otherwise
Kai's poor Most Muscular cost him the title
Mainly Kais Forearms and Traps were his genetic weakpoints against Phil. Also he had a pretty big gap between his bicep peak and brachioradialis. Again genetic and I've been a Kai Greene fan since 2010. This was Kai's best look IMO.
Phil is trying to turn the lat spread into a most muscular, you can tell because hes flexing his traps, thats why his neck looks like that and i think thats whats throwing it off
Not really sure why kai did not hit the shawn ray variation of hands behind back on the most muscular,it should have been a signature pose for him coz it allowed him to hide his thin forearms through the pose while maintaining a fantastic silhouette
He attempted to go to to toes through those most muscular poses and got crushed.
You should do Phil vs Kai 2013 cause It was a decent battle
It could be worth revisiting but at the time the judges seemed quite confident Phil was running away with it. They even removed him from the top callout because it was that obvious who was winning lol
i love these.
The only thing bad about Kai’s arms were his forearms
it's cool that they had the guts to face each other
They sure did lol
@@shred9475 i think you are the first person who got it IN THREE YEARS
@@notimportant3686 hahaha i think so too
I personally rated them 5-3 Kai. I agreed with all your picks, but I had to give the side chest to kai.
The analysis here is way off, not even with subjectivity included. 1. Phil has a six pack not a 4 pack. 2. Phil has a more detailed back than Kai. 3. Phil's chest is better than Kai's in the front lat spread where his is flat. Come on!
Not sure what you're looking at but Phil has a textbook four pack. It's not a bad thing per se hell I've got a four pack but Kai's abs are definitely more ideal. Back detail is Phil's in RLS but could go either way in BDB. And it might just be personal preference though I suspect most ppl would agree Phil's round narrow pecs in FLS don't look aesthetic.
@@Tomn8er there are clearly 6 abs separated? I can't possibly explain it as I can't draw on the screen haha.
@@carnivore-muscle 8:19 they are 4
Kai is the far more interesting competitor. He adds something to the game that no other does
I had Kai in the side chest. Also Phil was standing in front of Kai the whole time so the scaling is off in all the photos. I think Kai should have been crowned in 2012
Kai should've won, he killed Phil in the mandatories that year
Who also thinks side chest should go to Kai? I cannot see big difference on the upper body, while as it comes to legs... Really clean winner here.