It's also in line with who they are at heart: Daenerys is a princess who has been told throughout her life that what she thinks is her birthright was stolen from her and hence she decided to wage war to claim it by force if necessary. Jon was brought up thinking he was a bastard and thought he did not have the right to anything in this life and hence he dedicated his life to serving the realm as a man of the Night's Watch. At their core, they are opposites.
It would have been even more poetic if she actually never got to even touch it. If jon was to walk in just before that moment. That would have been an even better message for the audience.
@@brandonboi9465Or it would have been better if she sat on it after all these years? Not like I'm going to argue with the pleb, but what do you know abou the right messages for the audience? Don't answer pleb. Just be mad that you read it. And search what pleb means you npc.
@@brandonboi9465 that would be awesome I didn't watch the show, just read the books, but kinda of follow it Rob was the guy who won all the battles, but lost the war. Dany being the one who won the war, conquered westeros, but never get the prize would be tragic (in an awesome-for-the-audience way)
Exactly you can clearly see Jon doesn’t want to do it and is trying to convince himself not to but with every response she gives it’s gets harder until he realises that she’s completely lost
She changed when she got to Westeros. In Essos, she inspired people to follow her out of love and gave them a choice to leave. In Westeros, it was bend the knee or die.
@@aricente Nope. The Star Wars contract was concluded during post-production of season 8, hence it could not have impacted the scripts. Anyway, from a character perspective as presented on the show it makes lots of sense for her to arrive here. This end point for Dany makes sense if you remember that Dany a) uses vicious violence against whoever she perceives to be her enemies when she's upset, b) she has threatened to do this kind of thing before and ONLY didn't do so because she allowed herself to be swayed, c) she has said to Tyrion that the people of KL might be responsible since they didn't rise up to overthow Cersei and hence she (wrongly) holds the entire city responsible. She just decided to not showmercy when the city asked for mercy and she abused her power; In a show that presents people abusing their power for various reasons it should not come as a surprise that Dany, who has the most power out of anyone, will be tempted to abuse her power. There are multiple factors that were presented on the show and that play into her decision. Hence it makes sense.
Nope she was a killer the entire time. Her followers were all slaves, and she killed the free people, even the ones who were against slavery. When a slave killed a master to help her she killed him even though she knew it was a bad move, because she needed to be in control. When she went to westros people were free so she had nothing to manipulate them into following her. So what did she do, turned them into slaves, kneel or die. She could have been happy as a ruler in essos but was hungry for more power. She wanted to rule the world, once she took kings landing she had zero intentions of being a queen and governing, she wanted to conquer more and more.
This convo was just Jon tryna convince himself tht he didn’t have to kill her but Dany made it harder and harder with every response she gave and then he realized she was to far gone
No, they just didn't make it obvious enough to the average viewer that Dany has ALWAYS been a tyrant. We overlooked it when she burned slavers, warlocks, and evil powerful men because we wanted her to burn them. We cheered her uncompromising nature when she was the obvious "good guy." But then she came to Westeros and did the SAME THING, and we could only label it "madness" because we no longer understood why she did it, even though it was what she'd always done. It was OUR expectations of how she should act that changed, not Dany, because we failed to understand who she really was.
@@noturmum7967 - And she burned all the Khals, but they were just misogynistic jerks, so that's okay. And she conquered Astapor, Yunkai, and Mereen and demanded they all bow to her will; but that's okay, because slavery and gladiatorial games are bad. And even when the common people themselves attempted to rebel, she crushed them mercilessly, because HOW DARE THEY. And when the Tarlys surrendered but would not renounce their queen, she burned them alive as an example because...eh, whatever. But sure, it was only at King's Landing that the writers lost the plot and forgot she was virtuous and heroic.
@@dhunter1133 not a single one of your scenerios works here. the only difference is when anybody surrendered to her she let them live. Unless they betrayed her. She didn't burn all of mereen, astapor, and yunkai. She has never been known to kill innocents. Especially innocents who surrender to her. Which sorry kiddo, kings landing did indeed surrender...
@@noturmum7967 - What do you mean, "anybody surrendered to her she let them live." The Tarlys surrendered with the expectation of being ransomed and she burned them alive; you know, one of the scenarios you claim doesn't work here? Look...you want to see what you want to see, and you appear to think everything that Dany did was justifiable, because you agree with her. But the reality is she has been a "my way or you burn" tyrant from the first moment she held power, you simply had no problem with her being a tyrant so long as you didn't like the people she was being tyrannical over.
“Because I know what is good” that was the nail in the coffin. Good, evil and justice are in the eyes of the beholder, and only a tyrant would think they know best.
Also it was never in her character arc. She’s never even spoke like that. “They don’t get to choose” “I know what is good”. She’s always considered the people. It’s just shitty writing to conveniently kill her. She’s always had consideration.
She lost consideration along the line, this was no more the Daenerys that freed slaves and treated them well, she now could massacre innocent people just because they happened to live within the general area she has targeted her attacks
@@VDA19 People could see it coming... just after seasons of explanations and good story telling and character development.... which we did not get in S8....
This is good, the problem is that it was way too rushed. This could’ve been compelling and heartbreaking if the Long Night and the War against Cersei had been developed over at least a couple of seasons.
No. We had everything we needed for this development from season 1 onward. Lots of people in the audience just chose not to think about Dany's decisions and statements too much.
@@Regenmacher175 yeah because of how brutal the show is its hard for a lot of people to distinguish the difference between a swift beheading with no suffering and being fucking burned alive
@@gamerguy19981 she didn't go mad. Noone on the show talks about her that way. She wanted revenge and decided that she was not going to accept the surrender. The episode heavily hints at that early on.
Jon knew what he had to do even though he didn't want to..he still wanted to give Daenerys a chance to see that her actions were going against everything she stood for. He wouldn't let love get in the way of duty like his late brother Robb, even if he was forced to kill the one person he truly loved for the sake of the realm.
He didn’t do it for that empire or country .. most of all he did it so his sisters wouldn’t die like all but one of his brothers died .. he was in pain every time he saw Sansa and dany at odds because he feared how that would end for Sansa
If you've had a chance to play it (and if you haven't I apologise) but there's a Spiderman story where he can either save his aunt from dying or save others in her place and he thinks of the bigger picture, no matter the heartbreak - Jon didn't want to kill Danaerys but it had to be done as she was long past the point of reason, I feel alot of Thrones writing was inconsistent at the end but the only place Jon would find peace is in the 'real' north - where Bran 'banished' him, made perfect sense to me
The thing that gets me is Daenerys didn't want the throne, she wanted love and family, and we can see that when instead of going to sit on the Iron Throne which was supposed to have been her goal this entire time, she instead turns away from the throne and goes to stand with Jon. Her happiest moments were the moments she was surrounded by true family and love, she just never realized it because of the trauma from her childhood and brother made her yearn for some far off materialistic goal instead of the emotionally filling one she had taken from her 💔
It's crazy that Jon's words, "Have you seen . . . children. Little children. Burned!" are eerily similar to Master Aemon Targaryen's words, "And the children! Even the little children!", describing the murder of his kin to Jon.
"What about everyone else ? All the people who think they know what's good ?" - "They don't get to choose." THERE, that look from Jon at 2:53 is when he realises what Tyron just told him in his cell is true, that Daenarys will never, ever stop from taking down people that won't comply 200% to her way of seeing things, because she feels like a divinity with almighty knowledge of what is good or not.
In my opinion she was still really broken over the loss of Rhaegal, Jorah and Missandei. Jon didn't have to kill her off just like that. He would've been able to convince her, once she calmed down. We've seen her pissed before, yet still listening to advice once she calmed herself. In my opinion she really needed Jorah in this scene. He was with her from the very beginning, saw her dragons hatch, grow and die. Even Drogon mourned him in some way, which shows that he did grow to respect him over all those years. I've never seen Dany crying over someone as much as she cried over Jorah. She NEEDED someone by her side. Starks literally managed to keep everyone alive, why Dany wasn't able to keep Jorah or Missandei? It's literally like they just wanted to make her suffer another loss after another over those last few episodes. I'm still pissed cause i do believe that she would've gotten convinced, if given more time.
1)family history of madness , her brother and farther went mad 2)in season 2 she threatens to burn a city to the ground if they don't let her in. The exact thing she does in season 8. 3)her advisors gave her bad advice and betrayed her leading to her becoming more isolated and dealing with things her way. 4) 2 out of 3 of her dragons which she considered her babies died largely due to poor advice. 5) her best friend died in front of her maybe the only person she could still fully trust. Honestly it was the best plot point of season 8 , the writing as a whole was trash but Danny going mad had a good amount of buildup compared to everything else.
@@epic1053long-standing anger towards kings landing for the treatment of Targaryens. (This will actually be illuminated by the end of House of the Dragon series.) Dany was sick of the diplomatic route, as well as being misled or given bad advice by advisors. Cersei executing Missandei pushed her over that edge. By the time Dany had the throne she was simply tired of negotiating and was willing to torch any dissenters to move forward with her new world. She was at least willing to listen to Jon’s input, but he foresaw them clashing over the sovereignty of the north and more democratic leaning areas of Westeros. He got ahead of the issue.
2:49- The sheer coldness in Dany's eyes when she says "they don't get to choose..."......I am pretty sure this is what was the final straw for Jon. He could see that she was gone...
@@jhedatitan4228I can blame her. Since season 3 everyone in her council warned her to show mercy. She chose not to, and that eventually lead to her alienation. To be an all powerful queen you have to let go of your feelings in the moment, listen to hard truths and do what’s best for the people that follow you. True leaders understand that.
Jon was desperate for Dany to give him any reason to confirm his denial over what had to be done. A hero will kill you to save the world. A villain would destroy the world to save you.
Honestly this scene was a diamond in the very rough that was season 8 for me... Love how Dany basically convinced herself so much that what she was doing was right, but in reality (at least imo) she had become a hypocrite. She wanted to free people of their chains of slavery, yet says "They don't get to choose." As in she'd force them...like slaves to comply. She believes what she's doing is right and just like her enemies before her believed. The Lannisters kill her people, its a major offense. Dany burns and executes thousands of people and it's just. She truly wasn't any better than the ones she vowed to fight...
You have your best friends head chopped off in front of you and her husband after long years of trials and tribulations to overcome all the odds and ppl still disrespect you even tho you’re the rightful queen other than your brother who doesn’t want to be king… then tell me how you react Dany did what a person that’s been thru pain and suffering and understands that this is war anything goes. She did right
Daenerys also had the experience of giving people mercy and all it did was cause people to betray her and try to take power from her or destroy her...that was never quite explained.
Despite the rushedness of this whole season, there are some great lines here. Some great messages. Such as Daenerys being so sure and arrogant of her of own vision for the world, but Jon always being humble and uncertain (knowing nothing). It's a great demonstration of that fact of life that a truly wise and good person is unsure and will admit when they don't know.
In the end, he did the same as Jaime Lannister with the Mad King - only he stabbed her in the belly instead of the back! ... Who was more honorable after all?!
I don't even hate this, the conclusion, I just hate the journey to get there, this makes sense, danny was already slowly slipping in and out of madness, and had a fondness for burning things. show desperately needed 2 more seasons
How is this goofy ? Because she dies and becomes like her father ? Come on this is Game of Thrones, the show that will kill or do things that people wouldn't think of. They teased her ascension since Season 1 and everything went well for her, you really thought she would sit on the throne ? If so, I think you didn't understand the show
@@EminencePhront Nah, S8 haters are the cringe ones. What the hell are you still doing here 4 years after the show aired if you hate S8 so much? I don't see myself commenting on Matrix Revolutions or the later seasons of Big Bang Theory.
"They don't get to chose". Sealed her fate. 2:54 - He is haunted and defeated by that remark. No expression. He's already lost her. Probably Johns biggest deal breaker.
Bitter sweet. The villains are defeated he’s exiled but gets to life out the rest of his live with the free folk; people whom he respected and understood better than any “southern”. Obvs we all wanted him to be king but this is GoT after all. It’s very reminiscent of Frodo leaving the Shire to sail away to the Grey Havens (literally what inspired GRRM to write this ending tho he has yet to officially publish his last two books. But this scene is totally written down in a journal of his somewhere)
Kit Harington cried his eyes out when he read that he had to kill Emelia. (Was in a docu) That was the highlight for me as a game of thrones lover. So real 💙.
"they don't have to choose" This is where Jon realizes that he is facing a tyrannical, remorseful, divisive, slave-owning type of government What led Daenerys to this moment was not a dream of making the world better, but her desire for revenge for returning all the harm they caused her. While she conquered slaves, which was all she had left, many, including those commanded by her, called this justice, freedom. But time proved otherwise.
I agree eventually she’d have turned on him. He was a threat to her rule. But I think this was her last bargaining chip as much as it was his last bargaining chip. She tried using his love for her to manipulate him into disgracing his honor.
Because she’s a narcissist and wanted to see the throne for herself because everyone else is beneath her. Also Jon is her right hand man/lover/family so he gets security clearance.
Yup. Dany is Nisa Nisa, the person he loves. Dany is also the evil Azor Ahai must stand against. The biggest catch is that the two are one and the same.
Agreed it sucks but she was insane and needed to be stopped. Dany is an awesome character and overall mostly well written. Her descent into madness I think was a bit rushed but for the most part it’s been foreshadowed since the first episode
Even though they rushed this season, this scene was actually brilliant. Historically, we've seen this sort of thing play out multiple times from those in power. Rulers who believed they knew what was right and just. Rulers who believed in themselves and the story they wanted told. Rulers who seized all power with no one to answer too. This is what they meant by "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." This happened every single time without fail, a person rises up through the ranks of either the current status quo o the revolution to seize power only to reach the top and eventually bring utter defeat, commit atrocities and genocide, or to be stabbed in the back by someone else with even more unchecked ambition. The Bolshevik Revolution under Lenin, the first chinese emperor Qin Shi Huangdi, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Napoleon Bonaparte, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Muammar Gaddafi, etc. The people who helped them, believed in them, and blindly trusted them are always burnt in the end. It's impossible for one person to rule all because it's impossible to know all. Even the smartest of intellectuals make the worst rulers. A career politician, academic, general, doctor or even corporate executive doesn't know the first thing about you or how you do your job to keep society functioning. Yet they always believe they do and know it better than you. The first time in history when a new power was created and the ones who brought it forth denied absolute authority was after the American Revolution. They knew through tedious study what happened every time and decided to build a form of power that was constantly put in check by other branches and the people that permitted it. Ironically, they laid the foundations of what was to become the most powerful civilization ever known in our species history. A nation that can now destroy the world several times over, deploy military force anywhere in the world at a moments noticed, create art, culture, music, technology the world consumes feverishly. People need to be reminded of this, not to put their faith and trust to those in power but into themselves as individuals.
@@brandonboi9465 I don't believe in happy endings, but I do believe in endings that make sense. The minute the show runners decided to do away with Young Griff should have been an indicator of how this would turn out. Blending story lines was a bad move. Rushing through Season 8 was a bad move. Fucking up the entire Dornish plotline was a really bad move. But oh well, if you liked it that's your business.
This scene is crap. From a realistic perspective, Grey worm would have never left Daenerys's side and given Jon the opportunity to... I can't even say it.
Was Jon (Aegon), literally the only perfectly balanced Targaryen? He was wise, just, intelligent, a great warrior, humble, kind. Had those maxxed goodness stats. Maybe all that Targaryen incest ultimately resulted in the perfect specimen.
Aegon the first almost hits the mark but he was also a colonizer and forced a nation to bend the knee. So yes at the end of the day Jon was the only reasonable/righteous Targaryen. He is the song of ice and fire after all.
Damn those fan made "what if" alternate versions of the show ending getting out of hand, the make up looks spot on wtf, its like real actors playing the roles.
Recently binged the show and season six was the last good season If only she'd never met Jon at all or at least never hooked up with him, they had zero chemistry What a queen of all the kingdoms she'd made or I could see the north as independent and Daenerys having the rest Anyways I'll just pretend everything after season six didn't happen or things went differently
People say john could have been able to control her worse impulses because she loved him, I say maybe at the beginning of the season but by the end of the last season, she was far gone
If they would have build it up, this could have worked. The books can go this exact direction and it will work, Danys last chapter in Dance makes complete sense and hints at it. Or D&D just went with "We just make Danys last chapter in Dance the finale of the whole thing" Which is arguably dumb ... which makes it very likely this isnt the true ending cause George wouldnt do something the same way D&D did it ... Is this the reason that Winds is delayed by 10years? Cause he has to make it different than the show? Honestly, I dig that, I wouldnt want to be compared to D&D by doing what they did either
Ive also read GG said he accidentally killed off a major character in the books that he was going to close with. So prob has to figure it all out again. I hope this ends before him tho lol or ill be goin danny too lol
![WarUniverse - Outsiders [ Dark Orbit ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I5aRALUeWgA/mqdefault.jpg)
“You do. You’ve always known.” Red flag for Jon. The only thing he’s ever known is that he knows nothing.
Massive red flag considering they JUST had a disagreement about what is good and she insisted she was right and he was not.
nouthin*
socrates would approve
then snow was the wisest among them
@@kingofisrael95KOIfacts
Season 1 - Ned: "Shall we send her a wedding gift?"
Robert: "A blade perhaps, a good sharp one and a bold man to wield it."
B A S E D
Glorious
And that bold man a targereyan too
true king wisdom
@@baris.ozkaya yep 🎉
Once she said, “they don’t get to choose” she sealed her fate
Yep.
As if his father didnt killed man who Saw a white Walker in E1. ? Hypocrite and a traitor
@@springa1930 nope, his father was killed during Robert's rebellion. His uncle however, did kill a white walker in E1, for breaking established laws.
It's also in line with who they are at heart: Daenerys is a princess who has been told throughout her life that what she thinks is her birthright was stolen from her and hence she decided to wage war to claim it by force if necessary. Jon was brought up thinking he was a bastard and thought he did not have the right to anything in this life and hence he dedicated his life to serving the realm as a man of the Night's Watch. At their core, they are opposites.
@@Regenmacher175 and also serve the Starks the moment Sansa who Always Saw him as a bastard didnt Like Daenerys. He began to doubt.
Everything else considered, I do love the idea that the last two Targaryens are the last people to see the Iron Throne, forged by Aegon the Conqueror.
It would have been even more poetic if she actually never got to even touch it. If jon was to walk in just before that moment. That would have been an even better message for the audience.
@@brandonboi9465Or it would have been better if she sat on it after all these years? Not like I'm going to argue with the pleb, but what do you know abou the right messages for the audience? Don't answer pleb. Just be mad that you read it. And search what pleb means you npc.
@@brandonboi9465 that would be awesome
I didn't watch the show, just read the books, but kinda of follow it
Rob was the guy who won all the battles, but lost the war.
Dany being the one who won the war, conquered westeros, but never get the prize would be tragic (in an awesome-for-the-audience way)
"Am i nothing to you ?"
- Drogon
@@brandonboi9465agreed
1:37 he wasn't pleading their lives. he was pleading for hers.
💯
😢😢
Exactly you can clearly see Jon doesn’t want to do it and is trying to convince himself not to but with every response she gives it’s gets harder until he realises that she’s completely lost
He doesn't get a fucking thanks.
I love how she did not see how he was begging her to not make him do it.
and how when she said "they don't get to choose", his face is getting an expression of "yeah, she's nuts, I'm killing her"
Literally. He’s trying to convince himself not to do it while she’s just edging him closer to doing it
She changed when she got to Westeros. In Essos, she inspired people to follow her out of love and gave them a choice to leave. In Westeros, it was bend the knee or die.
Westeros ia toxic island 😅
@cardpitt1166 Or she was just a toxic bitch. Slaughtered an entire city after they surrendered.
She didn't change so much as the writers gave up and wrote themselves into a corner just to get that star wars contract
@@aricente Nope. The Star Wars contract was concluded during post-production of season 8, hence it could not have impacted the scripts. Anyway, from a character perspective as presented on the show it makes lots of sense for her to arrive here.
This end point for Dany makes sense if you remember that Dany a) uses vicious violence against whoever she perceives to be her enemies when she's upset, b) she has threatened to do this kind of thing before and ONLY didn't do so because she allowed herself to be swayed, c) she has said to Tyrion that the people of KL might be responsible since they didn't rise up to overthow Cersei and hence she (wrongly) holds the entire city responsible. She just decided to not showmercy when the city asked for mercy and she abused her power; In a show that presents people abusing their power for various reasons it should not come as a surprise that Dany, who has the most power out of anyone, will be tempted to abuse her power. There are multiple factors that were presented on the show and that play into her decision. Hence it makes sense.
Nope she was a killer the entire time. Her followers were all slaves, and she killed the free people, even the ones who were against slavery. When a slave killed a master to help her she killed him even though she knew it was a bad move, because she needed to be in control. When she went to westros people were free so she had nothing to manipulate them into following her. So what did she do, turned them into slaves, kneel or die. She could have been happy as a ruler in essos but was hungry for more power. She wanted to rule the world, once she took kings landing she had zero intentions of being a queen and governing, she wanted to conquer more and more.
This convo was just Jon tryna convince himself tht he didn’t have to kill her but Dany made it harder and harder with every response she gave and then he realized she was to far gone
Exactly perfectly said
This could have been SO GOOD but they just didn't give danerys' decent into madness anywhere close to enough time
No, they just didn't make it obvious enough to the average viewer that Dany has ALWAYS been a tyrant. We overlooked it when she burned slavers, warlocks, and evil powerful men because we wanted her to burn them. We cheered her uncompromising nature when she was the obvious "good guy." But then she came to Westeros and did the SAME THING, and we could only label it "madness" because we no longer understood why she did it, even though it was what she'd always done. It was OUR expectations of how she should act that changed, not Dany, because we failed to understand who she really was.
@@dhunter1133 when she killed those "evil men" that was it. She only killed them. She didn't burn entire cities to the ground.
@@noturmum7967 - And she burned all the Khals, but they were just misogynistic jerks, so that's okay. And she conquered Astapor, Yunkai, and Mereen and demanded they all bow to her will; but that's okay, because slavery and gladiatorial games are bad. And even when the common people themselves attempted to rebel, she crushed them mercilessly, because HOW DARE THEY. And when the Tarlys surrendered but would not renounce their queen, she burned them alive as an example because...eh, whatever. But sure, it was only at King's Landing that the writers lost the plot and forgot she was virtuous and heroic.
@@dhunter1133 not a single one of your scenerios works here. the only difference is when anybody surrendered to her she let them live. Unless they betrayed her. She didn't burn all of mereen, astapor, and yunkai. She has never been known to kill innocents. Especially innocents who surrender to her. Which sorry kiddo, kings landing did indeed surrender...
@@noturmum7967 - What do you mean, "anybody surrendered to her she let them live." The Tarlys surrendered with the expectation of being ransomed and she burned them alive; you know, one of the scenarios you claim doesn't work here? Look...you want to see what you want to see, and you appear to think everything that Dany did was justifiable, because you agree with her. But the reality is she has been a "my way or you burn" tyrant from the first moment she held power, you simply had no problem with her being a tyrant so long as you didn't like the people she was being tyrannical over.
“Because I know what is good” that was the nail in the coffin.
Good, evil and justice are in the eyes of the beholder, and only a tyrant would think they know best.
@@dbollman9036 nah most people who are genuine seek to discuss the issue
Also it was never in her character arc. She’s never even spoke like that. “They don’t get to choose” “I know what is good”. She’s always considered the people. It’s just shitty writing to conveniently kill her. She’s always had consideration.
She lost consideration along the line, this was no more the Daenerys that freed slaves and treated them well, she now could massacre innocent people just because they happened to live within the general area she has targeted her attacks
false wisdom
She's right though. Subjectiveness is what breeds evil. There must be truth and it must prevail
Isn't it ironic, she fulfilled her fathers final command before his death
Targaryens are psychopaths.. They always end up like that..😂
2:49 they dont get to choose, the words of a true tyrant
Can t believe people never saw it coming
@@VDA19 People could see it coming... just after seasons of explanations and good story telling and character development.... which we did not get in S8....
Just like those justices in Colorado keeping Trump off the ballot. "They don't get to choose".
@@BaldwinVoice Maybe Trump shouldn't have tried to overturn an election's results and deny people the right to choose, then.
@@Korijenkins1414 are u right in ur head
This is good, the problem is that it was way too rushed. This could’ve been compelling and heartbreaking if the Long Night and the War against Cersei had been developed over at least a couple of seasons.
No. We had everything we needed for this development from season 1 onward. Lots of people in the audience just chose not to think about Dany's decisions and statements too much.
@@Regenmacher175 yeah because of how brutal the show is its hard for a lot of people to distinguish the difference between a swift beheading with no suffering and being fucking burned alive
@Regenmacher175 Dany going mad is totally fine, it's the fact that she snapped and killed everyone AFTER she won the battle that's the problem.
@@gamerguy19981 she didn't go mad. Noone on the show talks about her that way. She wanted revenge and decided that she was not going to accept the surrender. The episode heavily hints at that early on.
@@Regenmacher175 fanatic fanboi spoted,this was a shitshow and most people know it
Jon knew what he had to do even though he didn't want to..he still wanted to give Daenerys a chance to see that her actions were going against everything she stood for. He wouldn't let love get in the way of duty like his late brother Robb, even if he was forced to kill the one person he truly loved for the sake of the realm.
He didn’t do it for that empire or country .. most of all he did it so his sisters wouldn’t die like all but one of his brothers died .. he was in pain every time he saw Sansa and dany at odds because he feared how that would end for Sansa
Azor Ahai
If you've had a chance to play it (and if you haven't I apologise) but there's a Spiderman story where he can either save his aunt from dying or save others in her place and he thinks of the bigger picture, no matter the heartbreak - Jon didn't want to kill Danaerys but it had to be done as she was long past the point of reason, I feel alot of Thrones writing was inconsistent at the end but the only place Jon would find peace is in the 'real' north - where Bran 'banished' him, made perfect sense to me
You’ve Standard how is killing her better than she killing other people? They are both wrong. Makes no sense.
@@davidmasters8601but Bran wasn’t Bran.
1:51 He tried to find ONE reason to not kill Daenerys
MISSION FAILED, WE’LL GET EM NEXT TIME
The thing that gets me is Daenerys didn't want the throne, she wanted love and family, and we can see that when instead of going to sit on the Iron Throne which was supposed to have been her goal this entire time, she instead turns away from the throne and goes to stand with Jon. Her happiest moments were the moments she was surrounded by true family and love, she just never realized it because of the trauma from her childhood and brother made her yearn for some far off materialistic goal instead of the emotionally filling one she had taken from her 💔
It's crazy that Jon's words, "Have you seen . . . children. Little children. Burned!" are eerily similar to Master Aemon Targaryen's words, "And the children! Even the little children!", describing the murder of his kin to Jon.
THEY WERE BOYS!
@@thedrinkinggamemaker9749 I'm sensing a theme here, lol. Nice catch!
"What about everyone else ? All the people who think they know what's good ?" - "They don't get to choose." THERE, that look from Jon at 2:53 is when he realises what Tyron just told him in his cell is true, that Daenarys will never, ever stop from taking down people that won't comply 200% to her way of seeing things, because she feels like a divinity with almighty knowledge of what is good or not.
In my opinion she was still really broken over the loss of Rhaegal, Jorah and Missandei. Jon didn't have to kill her off just like that. He would've been able to convince her, once she calmed down. We've seen her pissed before, yet still listening to advice once she calmed herself. In my opinion she really needed Jorah in this scene. He was with her from the very beginning, saw her dragons hatch, grow and die. Even Drogon mourned him in some way, which shows that he did grow to respect him over all those years. I've never seen Dany crying over someone as much as she cried over Jorah. She NEEDED someone by her side. Starks literally managed to keep everyone alive, why Dany wasn't able to keep Jorah or Missandei? It's literally like they just wanted to make her suffer another loss after another over those last few episodes. I'm still pissed cause i do believe that she would've gotten convinced, if given more time.
Her smiling in the beginning of this as she looks at the iron throne is so sad. She really did snap. Danny before would’ve never smiled at that.
Now Jon Snow knows what it was like for Jamie to kill the Mad King.
Jaime did not love and admire Aerys and he always knew dude was psycho as hell.
“The world we need cannot be built by men loyal to the world we have” ❤I miss her
She's right tbh.
This is what made GoT suck. There is not enough of an explanation why Danny suddenly abandons everything she’s ever believed.
1)family history of madness , her brother and farther went mad
2)in season 2 she threatens to burn a city to the ground if they don't let her in.
The exact thing she does in season 8.
3)her advisors gave her bad advice and betrayed her leading to her becoming more isolated and dealing with things her way.
4) 2 out of 3 of her dragons which she considered her babies died largely due to poor advice.
5) her best friend died in front of her maybe the only person she could still fully trust.
Honestly it was the best plot point of season 8 , the writing as a whole was trash but Danny going mad had a good amount of buildup compared to everything else.
@@epic1053long-standing anger towards kings landing for the treatment of Targaryens. (This will actually be illuminated by the end of House of the Dragon series.)
Dany was sick of the diplomatic route, as well as being misled or given bad advice by advisors. Cersei executing Missandei pushed her over that edge.
By the time Dany had the throne she was simply tired of negotiating and was willing to torch any dissenters to move forward with her new world. She was at least willing to listen to Jon’s input, but he foresaw them clashing over the sovereignty of the north and more democratic leaning areas of Westeros. He got ahead of the issue.
She was an ego maniac who was psychopathic. It developed over every season. You wanted to to believe she was good because she was an underdog.
@@epic1053 dude, watch the freakin show again
@@trpimirkarlovic838 one of us referred to points In the show the other just made noise. Please don't reply if you don't know how to debate.
2:49- The sheer coldness in Dany's eyes when she says "they don't get to choose..."......I am pretty sure this is what was the final straw for Jon. He could see that she was gone...
she ultimately chooses to not forgive, and to choose revenge at all times, revenge is her only driving motivation in life
I mean can you really blame her when everyone she trusted plotted and schemed behind her back?
@@jhedatitan4228I can blame her. Since season 3 everyone in her council warned her to show mercy. She chose not to, and that eventually lead to her alienation. To be an all powerful queen you have to let go of your feelings in the moment, listen to hard truths and do what’s best for the people that follow you. True leaders understand that.
I love how the dragon knew about the iron throne and the obession dani had to be queen and powerful and how it change her
"It was necessary. I tried to make peace with Cersei. She used their innocence as a weapon against me."
I've been hearing this a lot lately
I see what you did there
@@HectorSoria-te3locan you explain please
@@happythanos6632 is not real
The fact that Jon was beginning for her own life
"The World we need is a world of Mercy. It has to be."---That line resonates so much! So true! Jon Snow will always be King to me! XD
Jon would have been a great ruler. True he had no desire to be the ruler, but he would have been great at it.
Jon was desperate for Dany to give him any reason to confirm his denial over what had to be done.
A hero will kill you to save the world. A villain would destroy the world to save you.
So Joel Miller is a villain is what you’re saying (last of us)
@@connordougherty9860Joel isn’t considered a villain since he’s the main protagonist in the first game but he was many traits of one
Honestly this scene was a diamond in the very rough that was season 8 for me...
Love how Dany basically convinced herself so much that what she was doing was right, but in reality (at least imo) she had become a hypocrite. She wanted to free people of their chains of slavery, yet says "They don't get to choose." As in she'd force them...like slaves to comply.
She believes what she's doing is right and just like her enemies before her believed. The Lannisters kill her people, its a major offense. Dany burns and executes thousands of people and it's just. She truly wasn't any better than the ones she vowed to fight...
Nice recap sir.
You have your best friends head chopped off in front of you and her husband after long years of trials and tribulations to overcome all the odds and ppl still disrespect you even tho you’re the rightful queen other than your brother who doesn’t want to be king… then tell me how you react Dany did what a person that’s been thru pain and suffering and understands that this is war anything goes. She did right
Daenerys also had the experience of giving people mercy and all it did was cause people to betray her and try to take power from her or destroy her...that was never quite explained.
Despite the rushedness of this whole season, there are some great lines here. Some great messages. Such as Daenerys being so sure and arrogant of her of own vision for the world, but Jon always being humble and uncertain (knowing nothing). It's a great demonstration of that fact of life that a truly wise and good person is unsure and will admit when they don't know.
In the end, he did the same as Jaime Lannister with the Mad King - only he stabbed her in the belly instead of the back! ... Who was more honorable after all?!
He stabbed him in the heart
I don't even hate this, the conclusion, I just hate the journey to get there, this makes sense, danny was already slowly slipping in and out of madness, and had a fondness for burning things.
show desperately needed 2 more seasons
What a goofy end to such a magnificent beginning.
Goofy ass disney chanel ending
@@jesusa.3798 It's like poetry. It rhymes.
How is this goofy ? Because she dies and becomes like her father ? Come on this is Game of Thrones, the show that will kill or do things that people wouldn't think of.
They teased her ascension since Season 1 and everything went well for her, you really thought she would sit on the throne ? If so, I think you didn't understand the show
@@maleniablademiquella Oh God, Season 8 stans are as cringey as SW prequel/sequel stans.
@@EminencePhront Nah, S8 haters are the cringe ones. What the hell are you still doing here 4 years after the show aired if you hate S8 so much? I don't see myself commenting on Matrix Revolutions or the later seasons of Big Bang Theory.
The first Dragon in Westeros forged the iron throne, the last one destroyed it. That makes sense in a way
“It’s like poetry it rhymes” -George Lucas (even tho what he said is a metaphor and honestly made no sense unless explained in a colloquial manner)
There are not even 200 swords there, Littlefinger counted it. So do not mind you expected a bigger chair :)
"they dont get to choose " were the words that got her killed
I think people would've been more happy if all eight seasons had had 10 episodes.
Agreed
The way he says "little children", is exactly how he heard it from Maester Aemon at The Wall.
"They don't get to chose". Sealed her fate.
2:54 - He is haunted and defeated by that remark. No expression. He's already lost her.
Probably Johns biggest deal breaker.
Its 2023 and still I NEED DAENERYS AND ARYA CHIT CHAT SCENE
She loved him she loved him.... No matter what she did but she always wanted someone to be with her ..... 😭
Daenerys is a metaphor for the United States
I think you mean analogy. How are they similar?
@@TrevorCoggins destroying democracies around the world and killing millions of ppl for the sake of 'democracy'
I looked how this show ended. It ended humbly. Like the lore is much bigger and important than one show.
Emilia practically screamed in her garden when she read the final script. Then I realize what Scarlet Witch's ending in the MCU was based on
Stopped watching on 03:35 because it's too sweet, what an amazing couple.. Hopefully none of them kills the other one!
So Daenerys is basically Israel
Daenerys was a Tyrant. Jon gave her one last shot to redeem herself
Every time a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin… Jon Snow is the one that says no interference
I hated the way this show ended jon deserved more
Bitter sweet. The villains are defeated he’s exiled but gets to life out the rest of his live with the free folk; people whom he respected and understood better than any “southern”. Obvs we all wanted him to be king but this is GoT after all. It’s very reminiscent of Frodo leaving the Shire to sail away to the Grey Havens (literally what inspired GRRM to write this ending tho he has yet to officially publish his last two books. But this scene is totally written down in a journal of his somewhere)
Build a new world with her Jon. Auntie loves you 😆
Kit Harington cried his eyes out when he read that he had to kill Emelia. (Was in a docu) That was the highlight for me as a game of thrones lover. So real 💙.
I feel the Oath of the Night's Watch fits his actions so so well.
"they don't have to choose"
This is where Jon realizes that he is facing a tyrannical, remorseful, divisive, slave-owning type of government
What led Daenerys to this moment was not a dream of making the world better, but her desire for revenge for returning all the harm they caused her. While she conquered slaves, which was all she had left, many, including those commanded by her, called this justice, freedom. But time proved otherwise.
She was probably planning on killing Jon sooner and later anyway
Who knows....
She became unpredictable....
Insane, mad.....
@d bollman there are murderers and cult leaders who think they're "doing the right thing". Are they tragic?😂
I agree eventually she’d have turned on him. He was a threat to her rule. But I think this was her last bargaining chip as much as it was his last bargaining chip. She tried using his love for her to manipulate him into disgracing his honor.
To be quite honest she was right. He would have done the same thing to men who betrayed him. He had done so. She was correct.
The difficulty of Good and Evil is that good action can seen as evil and evil action can be seen as good.
Music is 💯 ❤ composer went on to do house of the dragon, thats where the emotion lies 🎶 🎵
This could have been a really good scene is there was 3 more series
Why tf was Danny alone? Where are her guards? How did every unsullied and dorthraki let this happen and Jon leave without a scratch?
She deserved that
Because she’s a narcissist and wanted to see the throne for herself because everyone else is beneath her. Also Jon is her right hand man/lover/family so he gets security clearance.
Jon is Azor Ahai this was fulfilling the prophecy stabbed his beloved in the heart.
Yup. Dany is Nisa Nisa, the person he loves. Dany is also the evil Azor Ahai must stand against. The biggest catch is that the two are one and the same.
Nasty business. Had to be done
Yes, ofcourse. The dragonfire must keep the peace
Yes killing children was justified. Totally
@@lactoseandintolerant7601 /r wooooosh
Agreed it sucks but she was insane and needed to be stopped. Dany is an awesome character and overall mostly well written. Her descent into madness I think was a bit rushed but for the most part it’s been foreshadowed since the first episode
Love how if Robert survived and killed Danny it would of all been avoided
3:57 - 4:04 dramatic blood. 4:05 onwards all gone!!!
Omg!
Now I understand.
I feel watching this short clips gives you a better angle of why something's happened the way they did.
The last danny made you feels his heart breaking because he know that he has to do know
Decisions were made, no one was spared. Very English and proper.
Even though they rushed this season, this scene was actually brilliant. Historically, we've seen this sort of thing play out multiple times from those in power. Rulers who believed they knew what was right and just. Rulers who believed in themselves and the story they wanted told. Rulers who seized all power with no one to answer too. This is what they meant by "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." This happened every single time without fail, a person rises up through the ranks of either the current status quo o the revolution to seize power only to reach the top and eventually bring utter defeat, commit atrocities and genocide, or to be stabbed in the back by someone else with even more unchecked ambition. The Bolshevik Revolution under Lenin, the first chinese emperor Qin Shi Huangdi, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Napoleon Bonaparte, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Muammar Gaddafi, etc. The people who helped them, believed in them, and blindly trusted them are always burnt in the end. It's impossible for one person to rule all because it's impossible to know all. Even the smartest of intellectuals make the worst rulers. A career politician, academic, general, doctor or even corporate executive doesn't know the first thing about you or how you do your job to keep society functioning. Yet they always believe they do and know it better than you. The first time in history when a new power was created and the ones who brought it forth denied absolute authority was after the American Revolution. They knew through tedious study what happened every time and decided to build a form of power that was constantly put in check by other branches and the people that permitted it. Ironically, they laid the foundations of what was to become the most powerful civilization ever known in our species history. A nation that can now destroy the world several times over, deploy military force anywhere in the world at a moments noticed, create art, culture, music, technology the world consumes feverishly. People need to be reminded of this, not to put their faith and trust to those in power but into themselves as individuals.
Yeah no you are way off dude
you’re entitled to your opinion. But we’re entitled to vehemently disagree
@@joeywhat98 ok? 😂
@joeywhat12 What? You think none of that happened? Or you thought the it should have been a happy ending?
@@brandonboi9465 I don't believe in happy endings, but I do believe in endings that make sense. The minute the show runners decided to do away with Young Griff should have been an indicator of how this would turn out. Blending story lines was a bad move. Rushing through Season 8 was a bad move. Fucking up the entire Dornish plotline was a really bad move. But oh well, if you liked it that's your business.
Heavy , this was a hell of a story . I never saw any of this T V show until this past year .
He did her dirty.
Jon ..the man of sacrifices ….he is not getting his love …yegritte and Danny ….ohh jon
Danerys is the Anakin Skywalker of GOT
I think that’s what GRRM intended
Nah. Anakin had a way more competently written descent into madness..and even then it wasn't really that good
Man this was so good but at the end it all messed up 😢
It's pretty obvious Jon will kill Dany in a tragic way ... but likely to help fight the whitewalkers and not in the throneroom.
Jon: You’re like Hitler! But even Hitler cared about Germany or something!
Daenerys: What’s a Hitler?
*Nazis and Star Bucks are now canon.*
I wouldn’t of minded if the show ended with this scene
I guess you don't mind then.
2:52 is when he knew she was full on egomaniac
"They don't get to choose"
She was always crazy. Big delusions, and big dragons. The ending is fitting.
the new Queenslayer 🩸🩸🩸
“ They don’t get a choice “ really dany 😭
You are mine and I am yours my princess.. 😢💔
This scene is crap. From a realistic perspective, Grey worm would have never left Daenerys's side and given Jon the opportunity to... I can't even say it.
Was Jon (Aegon), literally the only perfectly balanced Targaryen? He was wise, just, intelligent, a great warrior, humble, kind. Had those maxxed goodness stats. Maybe all that Targaryen incest ultimately resulted in the perfect specimen.
Aegon the first almost hits the mark but he was also a colonizer and forced a nation to bend the knee. So yes at the end of the day Jon was the only reasonable/righteous Targaryen. He is the song of ice and fire after all.
Only thanks to his mother’s Stark blood. The stoic calmness of the Starks balance out the irrational madness of the Targayens.
Both characters deserved much better. Mad queen Danny was not something I wanted, but they could have done something better.
I think that was the endgame since the get go. Sad as it is it’s GoT; no happy endings 😂
4 years later and it still fucks me up! why why why would they do this?
Damn those fan made "what if" alternate versions of the show ending getting out of hand, the make up looks spot on wtf, its like real actors playing the roles.
there should have at least been some words after that like
Daeneys: Why?
Jon: Cause you are MAD like yo daddy...
or something.... lol
Recently binged the show and season six was the last good season
If only she'd never met Jon at all or at least never hooked up with him, they had zero chemistry
What a queen of all the kingdoms she'd made or I could see the north as independent and Daenerys having the rest
Anyways I'll just pretend everything after season six didn't happen or things went differently
Queen slayer
2:40
jon: there is only one thing i know!
denerys: and that is?
jon: i know nothing!
*jon kills denerys*
I think her true Targeryn madness was manifesting so it was like better stop her before she gets worse
She was always crazy thanks to her brother
@anagarza8326 the pure targeryn's are known to be nuts and her bro was a good example then she.
@@anagarza8326she was always CRUEL thanks to brother and daario.
Best love story ever 😂
Love is death of duty and duty is death of love
People say john could have been able to control her worse impulses because she loved him, I say maybe at the beginning of the season but by the end of the last season, she was far gone
If they would have build it up, this could have worked.
The books can go this exact direction and it will work, Danys last chapter in Dance makes complete sense and hints at it.
Or D&D just went with "We just make Danys last chapter in Dance the finale of the whole thing"
Which is arguably dumb ... which makes it very likely this isnt the true ending cause George wouldnt do something the same way D&D did it ...
Is this the reason that Winds is delayed by 10years? Cause he has to make it different than the show?
Honestly, I dig that, I wouldnt want to be compared to D&D by doing what they did either
Ive also read GG said he accidentally killed off a major character in the books that he was going to close with. So prob has to figure it all out again. I hope this ends before him tho lol or ill be goin danny too lol
The actors were amazing the writers just f up
He really knew how to kiss his Aunt... then stab her...
DANY SOUNDS LIKE ISRAEL THESE DAYS.